I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Wow. Unvote. I don't like Some One's posting, particularly the random hint at a power role, but this wagon is forming way too fast and with way too little discussion.
Toastboy's magical "Some One is scummy, so is Guardman for attacking him" doesn't strike me so much as fence-sitting as cutting himself in half and placing himself firmly on both sides of the fence. I think his position is roughly as coherent as that sounds.
Not quite the mod, but by my count:
Someone (7): DYH, Pale Mage, Guardman, Kraj, JodoYodo, Cyan, Nom_Anor,
with a hos by Toastboy
I'm not bothered by the speed of the wagon so much as by the lack of opposition. I've never seen a wagon go this far (barring investigation or similar) without objection. But then again, I suppose here we are.
I believe that Toastboy's actions are in line with his playing style; especially the multiple FoSes.
@SO: you said:
Quote from Someone »
do we want to do a softclaim of: gender/first letter of name/first letter of persona? Or something of a similar nature?
This does rather imply you didn't have anything in mind when you first proposed the softclaim.
ie, Cyan is not misrepresenting you.
The speed of the wagon is quite astounding. L-4 according to Andel. While Guardman looks the worst on the wagon, but I am a little wary of calling him scum, given I have no idea how could not possibly have been scum in newbie #28; and yet he was town. And he seems genuine...
Question to those that know: Is it possible for a single persona to be shared by more than one person?
It's obviously the only way left for this matter to be settled. From that point, we can move onto breaking down my wagon and see who on it is scum (Guardman) and who on it is town. After that, it's going to become painfully obvious all the reasons I support a soft claim of the first letter of name and first letter of persona. Clearly I failed at proposing soft claims in a subtle matter, but this will have to do, and frankly, it doesn't matter much because I'm not about to draw any nightkills from the power-players and analysts anyway.
It's obviously the only way left for this matter to be settled. From that point, we can move onto breaking down my wagon and see who on it is scum (Guardman) and who on it is town. After that, it's going to become painfully obvious all the reasons I support a soft claim of the first letter of name and first letter of persona. Clearly I failed at proposing soft claims in a subtle matter, but this will have to do, and frankly, it doesn't matter much because I'm not about to draw any nightkills from the power-players and analysts anyway.
Oh woe is you, right?
Appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy; I'm certain you know this. So why?
@ Ande - I think you know the answer, and if you just want me to say what you know, I'm certain our two thoughts are the same.
@ Key - It significantly reduces the false-claim possibilites of scum in the future and it "soft-locks" them into the characteristics they claim. And, something else...
Appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy; I'm certain you know this. So why?
I really can't say why - but I would suppose individuality. Obviously I felt it would be alright to express my earlier opinion in regards to when JodoYodo should reveal the name of the confirmed town, and look where that got us. I wouldn't even say that idea was "scummy," but rather, merely "different" from the norm.
@ Key - It significantly reduces the false-claim possibilites of scum in the future and it "soft-locks" them into the characteristics they claim. And, something else...
This seems like a terrible idea. It doesn't soft lock anything.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
@ Ande - I think you know the answer, and if you just want me to say what you know, I'm certain our two thoughts are the same.
Unfortunately I really don't know what you're thinking (otherwise I'm sure I'd be more able to help).
You appear to want to be put at lynch -2 so you can claim and get people to look elsewhere. What I am saying is that if you want to claim and/or move pressure, there is no need to wait until lynch -2. There is no law that says you have to wait until you are forced to claim to do so.
@ KeyofDestiny - Let me spell if out for you: There's a role-related reason I am advocating this soft claim and it is insanely good for the town considering just 2 letters can go a very long way.
And you want to get to L-2 so you can claim the ability?
This makes no sense. Shouldn't you want to NOT claim it it's pro town.
Also, I'm interested in this 2 letter soft lock theory now. Does anyone have an in game character name? That's the only way I could potentially see the theory working, but that's also gaming the mod. :\ Eitherway, this could be really interesting or incredibly stupid.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
If Some One is saying what I think he's saying then I'm fine with letter claiming like he asks.
To answer Roja's earlier inquiry, I'm generally happy to put pressure on Some One early on as long as there is a reasonable basis because in my experience he's the type of player who tends to show their true colors under pressure. And I'm getting a pretty good townie feeling from him in this exchange (yes, I am aware he has said lots of scummy things. I still read him as town overall).
Unvote SO
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
I don't know why we arent taking JodoYodo up on his offer.
If I understand correctly, he knows the rolename of someone who is a townie
The possible outcomes are:
1. One person claims the name, and we get a confirmed townie. - a positive outcome
2. Two people claim the name, and we lynch the right one, we catch a scum - positive outcome
3. Two claim, and we lynch the wrong one, and then we lynch the scum on day 2 / if there is a vig, the vig hits the scum on night 1. We trade a townie for a scum, which seems like a profitable tradeoff.
I would support a soft-claim and then JY presenting his information, and would claim as early as necessary.
Why would you support a mass soft-claim?
Now for you people...
* desCoures traces a gradually rising melody, a cresting, forceful wave of sound.
@Some One
This all began, I believe, when you stated in this post that you support JodoYodo coming out with the name in twilight, or else a 'dying scum can claim the name and draw out the inevitable counterclaim' -- to which I asked, why is such a counterclaim a bad thing?
To which your answer, apparently, was that 'people knowing there's a confirmed townie out there without knowing who that townie is' just seems like a better thing. Even disregarding the obvious flaw (and I'm fairly certain it would be a horribly simple matter to fabricate a false claim from his role name) the above is just blatantly bad logic -- logic that you hastily retreat from in your next post, stating that you thought it would be better for the confirmed townie to be identified day 4 or 5 instead of 1. This does not seem consistent with the abovementioned post that launched a thousand votes.
Your proposal of a softclaim also feels horribly stilted. If you'd suggested outright a softclaim of first letters, that would be consistent with your later hints of yourself being a power role with an ability related in some way to this claim. But... what does gender have to do with it? Nor does the 'or something of a similar nature' seem consistent with the above. And in the post you suggest it, you appear less to be proposing the idea than throwing it out there for someone else to latch on to... also not consistent with the above.
He seems exactly like scum trying to jump on a wagon in order to get it rolling. Much of what he said is ridiculous and off-point and reeks of opportunism.
I'm not fond of 'stock scumtells', and I'll agree his initial post against you rang slightly false, but he has since then been one of the main proponents of the argument against you, and has raised a number of good and logical points. I fail to see why your immediate reaction is to vote Guardman, and not Kraj, DYH, or Ecophagy, all of whom appear to be bandwagoning behind Guardman.
And forcing the mafia into a lie on the first day is bad because...? It's good because we can catch the liars in the future. I don't believe the mafia can safely claim personae, as I believe everyone's persona is a real persona from the game.
There are well over a hundred personae from the game, and that's just Persona 3. The question is: why do you think the mafia would even need to lie?
If you seriously can't find any real way to reconcile all of the gaps in your arguments above, or to justify your call for an objectively useless softclaim, then make your claim, regardless of the number of votes on you -- because if you're town, and you can't manage to justify yourself any other way, delaying the issue only places more suspicion on you and wastes the town's time.
HoS: Some One. Vote held only pending votecount and possibly claim.
ok, a couple of things first. Unvote. Random stage is over =[
@descoures, yay for Hamlet quotes!
It seems Roja can only post his thoughts. how odd.
I'm not sure about the soft claim yet, give it a bit. However, it may be a good idea to use it today: you've given the scum a good target for a nightkill if they've got no-one else.
As for the Some One thing, hmm... he is being scummy, and the fa ct that he hasn't posted recently doesn't help.
Then he's just being amiguous with his little turns of phrase.
AND he just OMGUS voted. not a good poistion.
How many votes have we got on Some One?
For now a HoS:Some One.
However, Guardman you are pursuing this just a little too much for my liking. A bit eager.
Combined with the apparently innocent attack on TFO, you seem very confrontational to me. FoS:Guardman
@key, was that vote serious?
This is not just fence-sitting, this is building the fence, putting LED lights along the fence, pointing webcams at the fence, and then straddling the fence and rocking back and forth on it like it was some sort of demented sex toy.
FoS: Toastboy. Either you're making a very poor attempt at bussing, or you're getting an edge in on either Guardman or Some One because you know something we don't.
I agree with Echophagy that it's suspect that SO suggested a soft-claim, but didn't have any idea what type of soft-claim to go with. And SO's immediate response of accusing Eco of fishing looks about as bad as possible. Vote Some One
So is this lack of posting supposed to be part of your new, non-confrontational playstyle? ^_-
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
While you have convinced many of your townitude with your recent "make-me-claim" postings, SO, I'd still like more information. Do you only need the first letter of the first or of the last name to be claimed to know something? I'd like to know before we start claiming so that if we do, we're at least claiming the information that's helpful.
JY, could this also help clear the person whose name you know to be town? Do you know their name and persona, or just their name?
Elaborate, please. In what way are you getting a 'townie vibe' from Some One?
@Pale Mage
You argue further against Some One, and unvote him? That seems... disingenuous...
* desCoures stills the rising tempo of the music, holding steady a strident, anticipatory scale.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
This is not just fence-sitting, this is building the fence, putting LED lights along the fence, pointing webcams at the fence, and then straddling the fence and rocking back and forth on it like it was some sort of demented sex toy.
my reaction in this order.
:D:raise::xd::laugh:O.o
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
On another note: what do you think of the following three players:
1. Some One
2. Guardman
3. Kraj
1. Some One
His behaviour has been erratic to say the least, I have no idea what he is trying to pull, though his story does have some merit in a game like this I'm not at all sure where he is going with it, I think he is scum right now, but I usually see him as scum, though he has been consistent he has also been ridiculously uncooperative, if he is going to claim, soft claim or reveal JY's name he should do one now and stop messing the town around, its unnecessary and is not getting the town anywhere, If getting him to L-2 is the only way to make him carry through on something I will vote him next post, but until he makes a reply that convinces me that he is town my next post will be a vote.
2. Guardman
Guardman, Guardman, Guardman, what can I say, he just looks scummy everytime he argues with Some One someone. He seems to be over excited about the early scum tells Some One has been giving off but he seems way to keen to keep at him. Judging from his past games he is coming off more excited town right now than scum, depending on what I see next that might change.
3. Kraj
He obviously responded to my posts because he want some guy love and attention, no read on him yet, nothing incriminating.
also
* The Fallen One gives Kraj some guy love and attention =p
Locks the scum into claims later on so they can't use future information to create a false claim because the basis for their claim must be already established when they know nothing from the town.
C:> correlate above statement with other games
working...
correlation not found.
C:> observations from previous analysis?
working...
soft-claims may be less restricting than Some One believes. mafia begin the game with more knowledge than town by default. presence of night 0 mafia communications increases that knowledge and allows for strategy planning. also, possible presence of false-claims may skew results.
Quote from SomeOne »
There's a role-related reason I am advocating this soft claim and it is insanely good for the town considering just 2 letters can go a very long way
C:> Could above statement provide cause for this course of action?
working...
undetermined, early revelation of a role suited to finding false claims runs counter to standard townie mindset. psychological profile of Some One does not reveal trends toward irrational behavior. likely conclusion, Some One is attempting data retrieval on town roles.
C:> Likely reason for data retrieval?
working...
selection of ideal targets for mafia abilities most probable reason.
C:> Probability of Some One being scum or neutral?
working...
current analysis indicates greater than 65%
C:> Suggested course of action?
working...
force player to claim. data shows player is willing to do so, but desires more players to vote for him prior to doing so.
C:> Why would a player desire people to force him to claim?
working...
unable to formulate hypothesis at this time. game structure indicates that presence of jester-type role exceedingly unlikely.
C:> Could he think he's smarter than everyone else? That he's figured out the game setup well enough to break it?
working...
possible. though evidence from other games indicates that is unlikely barring exceptional insight on the players part or serious missteps on the part of the mafia.
Well why do I always feel that when I'm around Someone he is the center of attention? He wanted people to vote for him to get into claim range.. why? Piano man and the one called andelijah both mentioned the points worth stating.. why wait to claim until you are so close to lynch? Is it role related?
I wonder why everyone is choosing to attack Someone rather then confirm a townie by Jodo? To me how to handle that would be more important. Hmm maybe i'll start a list of whether or not people also have the same type of info Jodo has.
:: Roja sets up a pad of paper (Win, lose or draw style) and writes,[List of players who do not have any info like Jodo does.] ::
:: Roja writes his name on this list ::
Hopefully we can get this settled, as I would hate for us to overlook this and potentially lose this info that can be helpful. And when this list is complete we can get back to the Someone thing. Currently I feel Someone has just made some stupid comments without really thinking. I think he does this almost every game, but I cannot be for sure. The other side of the coin is that he DID make those comments.
The one called Guardman apparently gave us his same soft claim. And in that same breath he was talking about a death persona.. And his persona is apparently D.. Hmm well for now I guess he has the death persona.
Piano Man mentioned over 100 persona, hmm maybe there is a list somewhere? I wonder where I would locate such list. My attempts to find them haven't resulted in over 100. And I do think that is important to us all.
The one called DYH is a clever fellow. I remember him in the past talking up a storm left and right always having an opinion on something. (The same can be said for the one called Cyan..) Yet in this velvet paradise they both seem to be soothed into silence.. I am going to have to keep my eye on them, only because it's against the norm. And these are both dangerous players to just let slide.
I really wonder why Toastboy thinks it is weird for me to think before I say anything. I didn't think it was a bad thing. Everyone has already mentioned about the him fence sitting, and I have to agree with them. Tho not as colorful as Piano man has so described.
:: Roja looks at the list and taps it, expecting others to sign it ::
[List of players who do not have any info like Jodo does.]
Roja
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
First off I agree now that S1 is making these "put me at claim" type posts I am getting more and more curious at making him claim. Plus given the fact that he is wanting a soft lock, makes me suspicious of him. I mean he is claiming that it will make the scum tell the truth because of his role (well at least this is what I am gathering from what he says), I just have no idea how. Also I agree with the others, S1 if you are so anxious to claim why do you need to wait until you are at L-2. All this seems very suspicious to me.
Also for those of you thinking I am being aggressive, this is just the way I am. I go after someone I think could be scum full force, and look for them to screw up. If they don't I move on but keep an eye on them, but S1 has been giving several scum tells, which I have been calling him out on. TFO, Key, and Toast (and apparently Eco too) all played with me before and I am sure they will tell you this is how I play (see Disgaea mafia for reference).
@ Roja: I will neither confirm nor deny that I have a Persona of the Death Arcana, just that it's name starts with D.
Finally desCoures' Toastboy quote was EPIC! That is all...
I would like the people on my wagon to tell me what they want me to see claim. There's a lot - ability, name, other names mentioned, probable alignments of these other people, my persona, and something in parentheses after persona.
In the meantime, if everyone could just say:
"I have the ability to kill another player at night"
That turns out to be more effective than a soft-claim, for me at least.
I would like the people on my wagon to tell me what they want me to see claim. There's a lot - ability, name, other names mentioned, probable alignments of these other people, my persona, and something in parentheses after persona.
In the meantime, if everyone could just say:
"I have the ability to kill another player at night"
That turns out to be more effective than a soft-claim, for me at least.
First off let's start with your ability that works on first letters and genders, plus your name, persona, and your persona's arcana. The other info is stuff that probably shouldn't be out in public.
Also no I will not tell you if I have the ability to kill at night. In fact nobody should tell you that. This just looks like an attempt to out the Vig, or some other person who has a NK ability, not just the scum. Personally this seems like your scummiest move yet.
"I have the ability to kill another player at night"
That turns out to be more effective than a soft-claim, for me at least.
C:> What do you make of this?
working...
statement seems to indicate SomeOne is claiming a mass truth detection ability.
C:> Likelihood of this ability existing?
working...
marginal. an ability such as that in the hands of a townie could potentially reveal all the scum in one night. it is highly unbalanced.
C:> So this probably wouldn't be a town ability if it were true.
working...
correct. also, information generated from it would not be immediately verifiable.
C:> You mean, if we went along with it, we'd be putting the entire game into SomeOne's hands, without knowing if he's trustworthy.
working...
correct.
Do you mean his idea to soft claim, as in "I support Some One's soft claim idea etc"? Because I don't think he has soft claimed either.
Really meh on the softclaim idea. Shaman Mafia is a good example exactly why we might not want to do this, but that might just be paranoia on my part. Gonna leave my vote where it is for now. Not liking solorpg at all though.
:: Roja looks at the list and taps it, expecting others to sign it ::
[List of players who do not have any info like Jodo does.]
Roja
I am not sure how useful this is; it just really looks like fishing on a grand scale.
JY opted to reveal that he has info; why should others paint a target on their own head?
What do we gain by potentially forcing people who decided it was best to keep their head down revealing themselves, or get being forced to lie?
I would like the people on my wagon to tell me what they want me to see claim. There's a lot - ability, name, other names mentioned, probable alignments of these other people, my persona, and something in parentheses after persona.
In the meantime, if everyone could just say:
"I have the ability to kill another player at night"
That turns out to be more effective than a soft-claim, for me at least.
This is a bit different from where you were coming from before. Why the new detail? It's unlikely we're going to go along with this anymore than the original soft-claim plan without a lot more good feelings about you.
The one with a Spoon in his ear approched me and commented on how my board was a clear method of "fishing" from other players.
The way I was looking at it was to prevent the shadows from false "townclaiming" names in the future. Don't need the scum to be claiming that an ally of theirs is claimed townie.
Then again, I never really thought about Jodo doing exactly that. Hmm well I still think it is best for us to hash it out now before the scum get any more time to talk about it.
:: Roja hands Ecophagy the marker ::
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
The one with a Spoon in his ear approched me and commented on how my board was a clear method of "fishing" from other players.
The way I was looking at it was to prevent the shadows from false "townclaiming" names in the future. Don't need the scum to be claiming that an ally of theirs is claimed townie.
Then again, I never really thought about Jodo doing exactly that. Hmm well I still think it is best for us to hash it out now before the scum get any more time to talk about it.
:: Roja hands Ecophagy the marker ::
From what JY has said, I gather the impression JY's "target" doesn't know JY can clear him (except by having the name JY reveals), and possibly can't clear JY back.
Therefore, scum could not really 'fake' a position similar to JY without a)knowing the name of a real townie and clearing them; or b)clearing a scum buddy, which is pretty risky.
I would also not expect there to be a large number of confirmable townies.
So while it is possible scum would "clear" other scum, it does not strike me as wise to potentially forcing out players with role info.
By
Quote from Roja »
Hmm well I still think it is best for us to hash it out now before the scum get any more time to talk about it.
Do you simply mean today (before nighttalking), or is it an alusion to daytalk?
I am also going to be slow and ask if this marker is what we write on your list with. Because Alcohol at lunch time slows one's mental faculties.
The spoon boy and I continued talking, I like him, he provides good insight and hopefully I can return the favor.
I was thinking it over, JY's name doesn't know that they are auto cleared. Which would still need some thinking on whether or not "auto" is the correct phrase to be using, however now I am willing to believe the info as true.
I really think that all the shadows really have to do tonight is swap the names of their roles. (If they haven't already done so.) Then when a claim could be made a buddy can shout out something along the lines of "oh hey that name is in my PM that is townie".
I think that If we choose to ignore this today then I would then ignore any other claims that mimic Jodo's. As I feel it would be highly convenient. Which is why if there IS more info about this, NOW (Today) would be the time it helps us. As long as the player(s) whos name(s) don't come forward, I don't think it would be too harmful for the townie name(s) to be revealed. I would think after we find out who has this info a soft name claim should happen (First letter of your role name I think would be good). And then Jodo (and then anyone else with the same info) would reveal the names. I guess there is a chance for only one person to have the name starting with the revealed name. But I want to hear what others have to say about it as well.
To me so far it sounds like only Jodo is the only one who does infact have this information or this type of information. Silly Spoon boy didn't know how to put a name on the list. I showed him using the marker tracing over my name again. If he wanted to use it, he could, if he wanted to use a pen or pencil or heck any writing utensil is fine by me. Or he could just say he shouldn't be on the list to begin with.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
Elaborate, please. In what way are you getting a 'townie vibe' from Some One?
Basically it's his attitude. It feels like he's explaining himself rather than defending himself. It's hard to articulate beyond that; it's just the impression I'm getting from him.
likely conclusion, Some One is attempting data retrieval on town roles.
All mass claims are about getting everyone's role information. Why is Some One's suggestion specifically about getting town roles? You're using your conclusion as a premise.
C:> Suggested course of action?
working...
force player to claim. data shows player is willing to do so, but desires more players to vote for him prior to doing so.
C:> Translate data
working...
"I want him to claim, but only because he says he wants to claim, not because I think he's scummy."
C:> Why would a player desire people to force him to claim?
working...
unable to formulate hypothesis at this time. game structure indicates that presence of jester-type role exceedingly unlikely.
So here we get to a question that requires real analysis to answer, and you're totally befuddled. Interesting, since it's pretty well-known that being eager to claim is generally the symptom of believing your claim will clear you, which usually is a town power tell but can also incidicate mafia with a safe/strong claim. And what a shock: that's what he ends up (indirectly) claiming. Your reaction?
C:> Likelihood of this ability existing?
working...
marginal. an ability such as that in the hands of a townie could potentially reveal all the scum in one night. it is highly unbalanced.
Really? So ignoring the fact that this is 100% gaming the mod, exactly how will this ability as finding all the scum in one night?
C:> So this probably wouldn't be a town ability if it were true.
working...
correct. also, information generated from it would not be immediately verifiable.
Really? So, you're saying that even if he's telling the truth about his claim he's still probably scum? Because the ability to tell if a player is lying is broken in the hands of town but not 100% useless in the hands on scum? Uh huh. You go on to toss more dirt on him by saying the claim is not immediately verifiable. Clearly it's verifiable, but not immediately. Let's see if I can think of another role that fits that description... hmmm... oh yes: cop.
Also for those of you thinking I am being aggressive, this is just the way I am. I go after someone I think could be scum full force, and look for them to screw up. If they don't I move on but keep an eye on them, but S1 has been giving several scum tells, which I have been calling him out on. TFO, Key, and Toast (and apparently Eco too) all played with me before and I am sure they will tell you this is how I play (see Disgaea mafia for reference).
Explaning behavior that no one is really attacking you for? Aren't we a little jumpy?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
From what JY has said, I gather the impression JY's "target" doesn't know JY can clear him (except by having the name JY reveals), and possibly can't clear JY back.
Therefore, scum could not really 'fake' a position similar to JY without a)knowing the name of a real townie and clearing them; or b)clearing a scum buddy, which is pretty risky.
I would also not expect there to be a large number of confirmable townies.
So while it is possible scum would "clear" other scum, it does not strike me as wise to potentially forcing out players with role info.
I can easily see a scenario in which scum are able to take a softclaim, ask for "more specific information" if one person's softclaim "matches" their "role's confirmed" town and either confirm a buddy or confirm a townie based on fishing.
@SomeOne: Did you want each of us to say that regardless of whether or not it's true? If you have the mass-truth-telling ability you're hinting at, wouldn't there be a much easier way to massively out scum than this statement?
I was thinking it over, JY's name doesn't know that they are auto cleared. Which would still need some thinking on whether or not "auto" is the correct phrase to be using, however now I am willing to believe the info as true.
I really think that all the shadows really have to do tonight is swap the names of their roles. (If they haven't already done so.) Then when a claim could be made a buddy can shout out something along the lines of "oh hey that name is in my PM that is townie".
I think that If we choose to ignore this today then I would then ignore any other claims that mimic Jodo's. As I feel it would be highly convenient.
Certainly, it seems wise not trust blindly any similar claim made after tonight, save in extenuating circumstances (like masons to fabricate an example).
However, pinning every player down into stating today whether they could make a claim along the lines as JY in future seems poor. Using the example of mason; they could potentially clear one another similarly to JY, but would probably prefer to remain hidden. Forcing them to state today might out something we don't want outed.
As long as players know that future JY style claims will be looked upon dubiously and that they should proably claim simple knowledge today seems enough.
Quote from Roja »
Which is why if there IS more info about this, NOW (Today) would be the time it helps us. As long as the player(s) whos name(s) don't come forward, I don't think it would be too harmful for the townie name(s) to be revealed. I would think after we find out who has this info a soft name claim should happen (First letter of your role name I think would be good). And then Jodo (and then anyone else with the same info) would reveal the names. I guess there is a chance for only one person to have the name starting with the revealed name. But I want to hear what others have to say about it as well.
So, you advocate a softclaim even as the SO debacle goes on?
While a soft claim would be rather useful in verifying JY's information, as well as potentially locking scum out of using the same tactic; I am wary of proceeding with a soft claim while we are working out what to do with SO: namely, whether he has anti-town reasons for advocating a soft-claim.
Quote from Roja »
To me so far it sounds like only Jodo is the only one who does infact have this information or this type of information. Silly Spoon boy didn't know how to put a name on the list. I showed him using the marker tracing over my name again. If he wanted to use it, he could, if he wanted to use a pen or pencil or heck any writing utensil is fine by me. Or he could just say he shouldn't be on the list to begin with.
I am not sure the list is a good idea, and thus abstain from putting my name on it. A little research into the universe of the game will tell if my role PM flavour gives any indication of alignment (or even presence) of other charaters mentioned; or if is simply flavour.
I hope he looks back over here at me and looks at my face to see what I mean with my idea.
P'EDIT: Mostly snarth'd by Eco.
I'm not sure what your face has to do with it, but your fear of scum confirming each other is akin to fearing a scum mason claim: it's possible and dangerous to the town, but it's very risky to the scum. Doing so early in the game means a huge risk of getting 2-for-1'd on an investigation or vig shot. On the flip side, ignoring any future information like this because of the fear of it being false is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
And a request: if it is possible to do without breaking your PR, can you please stop using nicknames and indirect references? Use people's names. It's tough enough to follow in-context; rereading you is going to be absolute hell if you keep this up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
Some One has put himself in a position where he's going to have to produce results based on what he's indirectly claimed. There's no sense in pursuing him further right now.
As for JodoYodo's information, I don't think it's time to reveal it just yet. Once we've progressed through the day and have decided on a lynch, but not yet reached it, seems like a better plan. On the off-chance the lynch target is the confirmed townie, the natural reactions of the wagon could be analyzed.
"Regardless of how scummy I seem to be, it's the town's fault for suspecting me because I have a power role and therefore shouldn't have to claim."
Toastboy's magical "Some One is scummy, so is Guardman for attacking him" doesn't strike me so much as fence-sitting as cutting himself in half and placing himself firmly on both sides of the fence. I think his position is roughly as coherent as that sounds.
Mod: Vote count, please?
Someone (7): DYH, Pale Mage, Guardman, Kraj, JodoYodo, Cyan, Nom_Anor,
with a hos by Toastboy
I'm not bothered by the speed of the wagon so much as by the lack of opposition. I've never seen a wagon go this far (barring investigation or similar) without objection. But then again, I suppose here we are.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
@SO: you said:
This does rather imply you didn't have anything in mind when you first proposed the softclaim.
ie, Cyan is not misrepresenting you.
The speed of the wagon is quite astounding. L-4 according to Andel. While Guardman looks the worst on the wagon, but I am a little wary of calling him scum, given I have no idea how could not possibly have been scum in newbie #28; and yet he was town. And he seems genuine...
Question to those that know: Is it possible for a single persona to be shared by more than one person?
Yep, I sure did; I like to do that for reactions from time to time.
Go read post 71 and see how awkwardly worded (read: safe) it is. That's what prompted my vote.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
It's obviously the only way left for this matter to be settled. From that point, we can move onto breaking down my wagon and see who on it is scum (Guardman) and who on it is town. After that, it's going to become painfully obvious all the reasons I support a soft claim of the first letter of name and first letter of persona. Clearly I failed at proposing soft claims in a subtle matter, but this will have to do, and frankly, it doesn't matter much because I'm not about to draw any nightkills from the power-players and analysts anyway.
If you expect that claiming is the only way out of this, then there is no reason you can't do so earlier.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Oh woe is you, right?
Appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy; I'm certain you know this. So why?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
@ Key - It significantly reduces the false-claim possibilites of scum in the future and it "soft-locks" them into the characteristics they claim. And, something else...
I really can't say why - but I would suppose individuality. Obviously I felt it would be alright to express my earlier opinion in regards to when JodoYodo should reveal the name of the confirmed town, and look where that got us. I wouldn't even say that idea was "scummy," but rather, merely "different" from the norm.
This seems like a terrible idea. It doesn't soft lock anything.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Unvote
You appear to want to be put at lynch -2 so you can claim and get people to look elsewhere. What I am saying is that if you want to claim and/or move pressure, there is no need to wait until lynch -2. There is no law that says you have to wait until you are forced to claim to do so.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
They are not, and I know that, but it's okay.
This makes no sense. Shouldn't you want to NOT claim it it's pro town.
Also, I'm interested in this 2 letter soft lock theory now. Does anyone have an in game character name? That's the only way I could potentially see the theory working, but that's also gaming the mod. :\ Eitherway, this could be really interesting or incredibly stupid.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
To answer Roja's earlier inquiry, I'm generally happy to put pressure on Some One early on as long as there is a reasonable basis because in my experience he's the type of player who tends to show their true colors under pressure. And I'm getting a pretty good townie feeling from him in this exchange (yes, I am aware he has said lots of scummy things. I still read him as town overall).
Unvote SO
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
I'm a friendly person. I get along with everyone.
Not that well, though.
On another note: what do you think of the following three players:
1. Some One
2. Guardman
3. Kraj
@Kraj
It is, isn't it? ^_- So is yours, though...
I note he has yet to say anything about Some One, though.
@HKPhooey
Why would you support a mass soft-claim?
Now for you people...
* desCoures traces a gradually rising melody, a cresting, forceful wave of sound.
@Some One
This all began, I believe, when you stated in this post that you support JodoYodo coming out with the name in twilight, or else a 'dying scum can claim the name and draw out the inevitable counterclaim' -- to which I asked, why is such a counterclaim a bad thing?
To which your answer, apparently, was that 'people knowing there's a confirmed townie out there without knowing who that townie is' just seems like a better thing. Even disregarding the obvious flaw (and I'm fairly certain it would be a horribly simple matter to fabricate a false claim from his role name) the above is just blatantly bad logic -- logic that you hastily retreat from in your next post, stating that you thought it would be better for the confirmed townie to be identified day 4 or 5 instead of 1. This does not seem consistent with the abovementioned post that launched a thousand votes.
Your proposal of a softclaim also feels horribly stilted. If you'd suggested outright a softclaim of first letters, that would be consistent with your later hints of yourself being a power role with an ability related in some way to this claim. But... what does gender have to do with it? Nor does the 'or something of a similar nature' seem consistent with the above. And in the post you suggest it, you appear less to be proposing the idea than throwing it out there for someone else to latch on to... also not consistent with the above.
Then there's OMGUS on Guardman...
I'm not fond of 'stock scumtells', and I'll agree his initial post against you rang slightly false, but he has since then been one of the main proponents of the argument against you, and has raised a number of good and logical points. I fail to see why your immediate reaction is to vote Guardman, and not Kraj, DYH, or Ecophagy, all of whom appear to be bandwagoning behind Guardman.
Give an example of a persona that would be 'inherently bad' to you, then.
There are well over a hundred personae from the game, and that's just Persona 3. The question is: why do you think the mafia would even need to lie?
If you seriously can't find any real way to reconcile all of the gaps in your arguments above, or to justify your call for an objectively useless softclaim, then make your claim, regardless of the number of votes on you -- because if you're town, and you can't manage to justify yourself any other way, delaying the issue only places more suspicion on you and wastes the town's time.
HoS: Some One. Vote held only pending votecount and possibly claim.
Also...
@Toastboy
This is not just fence-sitting, this is building the fence, putting LED lights along the fence, pointing webcams at the fence, and then straddling the fence and rocking back and forth on it like it was some sort of demented sex toy.
FoS: Toastboy. Either you're making a very poor attempt at bussing, or you're getting an edge in on either Guardman or Some One because you know something we don't.
@Cyan
So is this lack of posting supposed to be part of your new, non-confrontational playstyle? ^_-
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
JY, could this also help clear the person whose name you know to be town? Do you know their name and persona, or just their name?
@Kraj
Elaborate, please. In what way are you getting a 'townie vibe' from Some One?
@Pale Mage
You argue further against Some One, and unvote him? That seems... disingenuous...
* desCoures stills the rising tempo of the music, holding steady a strident, anticipatory scale.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
my reaction in this order.
:D:raise::xd::laugh:O.o
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
I argued the merits of the plan, not the man. Too many votes too quickly from pretty shaky evidence.
I denial are we? we all see the truth
1. Some One
His behaviour has been erratic to say the least, I have no idea what he is trying to pull, though his story does have some merit in a game like this I'm not at all sure where he is going with it, I think he is scum right now, but I usually see him as scum, though he has been consistent he has also been ridiculously uncooperative, if he is going to claim, soft claim or reveal JY's name he should do one now and stop messing the town around, its unnecessary and is not getting the town anywhere, If getting him to L-2 is the only way to make him carry through on something I will vote him next post, but until he makes a reply that convinces me that he is town my next post will be a vote.
2. Guardman
Guardman, Guardman, Guardman, what can I say, he just looks scummy everytime he argues with
Some Onesomeone. He seems to be over excited about the early scum tells Some One has been giving off but he seems way to keen to keep at him. Judging from his past games he is coming off more excited town right now than scum, depending on what I see next that might change.3. Kraj
He obviously responded to my posts because he want some guy love and attention, no read on him yet, nothing incriminating.
also
* The Fallen One gives Kraj some guy love and attention =p
Give me a chance, I was still trying to read him, besides, I was having much more fun with you
C:> correlate above statement with other games
working...
correlation not found.
C:> observations from previous analysis?
working...
soft-claims may be less restricting than Some One believes. mafia begin the game with more knowledge than town by default. presence of night 0 mafia communications increases that knowledge and allows for strategy planning. also, possible presence of false-claims may skew results.
C:> Could above statement provide cause for this course of action?
working...
undetermined, early revelation of a role suited to finding false claims runs counter to standard townie mindset. psychological profile of Some One does not reveal trends toward irrational behavior. likely conclusion, Some One is attempting data retrieval on town roles.
C:> Likely reason for data retrieval?
working...
selection of ideal targets for mafia abilities most probable reason.
C:> Probability of Some One being scum or neutral?
working...
current analysis indicates greater than 65%
C:> Suggested course of action?
working...
force player to claim. data shows player is willing to do so, but desires more players to vote for him prior to doing so.
C:> Why would a player desire people to force him to claim?
working...
unable to formulate hypothesis at this time. game structure indicates that presence of jester-type role exceedingly unlikely.
C:> Could he think he's smarter than everyone else? That he's figured out the game setup well enough to break it?
working...
possible. though evidence from other games indicates that is unlikely barring exceptional insight on the players part or serious missteps on the part of the mafia.
Hmm, very well.
Unvote, Vote SomeOne
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I wonder why everyone is choosing to attack Someone rather then confirm a townie by Jodo? To me how to handle that would be more important. Hmm maybe i'll start a list of whether or not people also have the same type of info Jodo has.
Hopefully we can get this settled, as I would hate for us to overlook this and potentially lose this info that can be helpful. And when this list is complete we can get back to the Someone thing. Currently I feel Someone has just made some stupid comments without really thinking. I think he does this almost every game, but I cannot be for sure. The other side of the coin is that he DID make those comments.
The one called Guardman apparently gave us his same soft claim. And in that same breath he was talking about a death persona.. And his persona is apparently D.. Hmm well for now I guess he has the death persona.
Piano Man mentioned over 100 persona, hmm maybe there is a list somewhere? I wonder where I would locate such list. My attempts to find them haven't resulted in over 100. And I do think that is important to us all.
The one called DYH is a clever fellow. I remember him in the past talking up a storm left and right always having an opinion on something. (The same can be said for the one called Cyan..) Yet in this velvet paradise they both seem to be soothed into silence.. I am going to have to keep my eye on them, only because it's against the norm. And these are both dangerous players to just let slide.
I really wonder why Toastboy thinks it is weird for me to think before I say anything. I didn't think it was a bad thing. Everyone has already mentioned about the him fence sitting, and I have to agree with them. Tho not as colorful as Piano man has so described.
Roja
Also for those of you thinking I am being aggressive, this is just the way I am. I go after someone I think could be scum full force, and look for them to screw up. If they don't I move on but keep an eye on them, but S1 has been giving several scum tells, which I have been calling him out on. TFO, Key, and Toast (and apparently Eco too) all played with me before and I am sure they will tell you this is how I play (see Disgaea mafia for reference).
@ Roja: I will neither confirm nor deny that I have a Persona of the Death Arcana, just that it's name starts with D.
Finally desCoures' Toastboy quote was EPIC! That is all...
In the meantime, if everyone could just say:
"I have the ability to kill another player at night"
That turns out to be more effective than a soft-claim, for me at least.
First off let's start with your ability that works on first letters and genders, plus your name, persona, and your persona's arcana. The other info is stuff that probably shouldn't be out in public.
Also no I will not tell you if I have the ability to kill at night. In fact nobody should tell you that. This just looks like an attempt to out the Vig, or some other person who has a NK ability, not just the scum. Personally this seems like your scummiest move yet.
Uh, you do know he hasn't even claimed yet...
C:> What do you make of this?
working...
statement seems to indicate SomeOne is claiming a mass truth detection ability.
C:> Likelihood of this ability existing?
working...
marginal. an ability such as that in the hands of a townie could potentially reveal all the scum in one night. it is highly unbalanced.
C:> So this probably wouldn't be a town ability if it were true.
working...
correct. also, information generated from it would not be immediately verifiable.
C:> You mean, if we went along with it, we'd be putting the entire game into SomeOne's hands, without knowing if he's trustworthy.
working...
correct.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Do you mean his idea to soft claim, as in "I support Some One's soft claim idea etc"? Because I don't think he has soft claimed either.
Really meh on the softclaim idea. Shaman Mafia is a good example exactly why we might not want to do this, but that might just be paranoia on my part. Gonna leave my vote where it is for now. Not liking solorpg at all though.
I'm not going to answer that yet. And please don't ask why yet.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
By "believe" do you mean "support"? I'm pretty sure SO hasn't done any sort of claim yet...
I am not sure how useful this is; it just really looks like fishing on a grand scale.
JY opted to reveal that he has info; why should others paint a target on their own head?
What do we gain by potentially forcing people who decided it was best to keep their head down revealing themselves, or get being forced to lie?
Is it possible there could be somebody targeting specific personas as a win-con? I really know nothing about the universe
This is a bit different from where you were coming from before. Why the new detail? It's unlikely we're going to go along with this anymore than the original soft-claim plan without a lot more good feelings about you.
Why?
this misread would be?
mistakenly thinking SO softclaimed?
The way I was looking at it was to prevent the shadows from false "townclaiming" names in the future. Don't need the scum to be claiming that an ally of theirs is claimed townie.
Then again, I never really thought about Jodo doing exactly that. Hmm well I still think it is best for us to hash it out now before the scum get any more time to talk about it.
:: Roja hands Ecophagy the marker ::
From what JY has said, I gather the impression JY's "target" doesn't know JY can clear him (except by having the name JY reveals), and possibly can't clear JY back.
Therefore, scum could not really 'fake' a position similar to JY without a)knowing the name of a real townie and clearing them; or b)clearing a scum buddy, which is pretty risky.
I would also not expect there to be a large number of confirmable townies.
So while it is possible scum would "clear" other scum, it does not strike me as wise to potentially forcing out players with role info.
By
Do you simply mean today (before nighttalking), or is it an alusion to daytalk?
I am also going to be slow and ask if this marker is what we write on your list with. Because Alcohol at lunch time slows one's mental faculties.
Yep.
What did you think he claimed, and why did you believe it?
I was thinking it over, JY's name doesn't know that they are auto cleared. Which would still need some thinking on whether or not "auto" is the correct phrase to be using, however now I am willing to believe the info as true.
I really think that all the shadows really have to do tonight is swap the names of their roles. (If they haven't already done so.) Then when a claim could be made a buddy can shout out something along the lines of "oh hey that name is in my PM that is townie".
I think that If we choose to ignore this today then I would then ignore any other claims that mimic Jodo's. As I feel it would be highly convenient. Which is why if there IS more info about this, NOW (Today) would be the time it helps us. As long as the player(s) whos name(s) don't come forward, I don't think it would be too harmful for the townie name(s) to be revealed. I would think after we find out who has this info a soft name claim should happen (First letter of your role name I think would be good). And then Jodo (and then anyone else with the same info) would reveal the names. I guess there is a chance for only one person to have the name starting with the revealed name. But I want to hear what others have to say about it as well.
To me so far it sounds like only Jodo is the only one who does infact have this information or this type of information. Silly Spoon boy didn't know how to put a name on the list. I showed him using the marker tracing over my name again. If he wanted to use it, he could, if he wanted to use a pen or pencil or heck any writing utensil is fine by me. Or he could just say he shouldn't be on the list to begin with.
Basically it's his attitude. It feels like he's explaining himself rather than defending himself. It's hard to articulate beyond that; it's just the impression I'm getting from him.
Face pic first please. kthanx.
Tilde's posts stink to high heaven.
Have you played with someone before?
All mass claims are about getting everyone's role information. Why is Some One's suggestion specifically about getting town roles? You're using your conclusion as a premise.
You're blatanty ignoring any townie motivation for soft mass claim.
C:> Translate data
working...
"My degree of certainty is anywhere from slightly higher than completely uncertain, to absolutely positive."
C:> Extrapolate
working...
"I support pressure on Some One but I'm not willing to say I actually find him scummy."
C:> Translate data
working...
"I want him to claim, but only because he says he wants to claim, not because I think he's scummy."
So here we get to a question that requires real analysis to answer, and you're totally befuddled. Interesting, since it's pretty well-known that being eager to claim is generally the symptom of believing your claim will clear you, which usually is a town power tell but can also incidicate mafia with a safe/strong claim. And what a shock: that's what he ends up (indirectly) claiming. Your reaction?
Indeed.
Really? So ignoring the fact that this is 100% gaming the mod, exactly how will this ability as finding all the scum in one night?
Really? So, you're saying that even if he's telling the truth about his claim he's still probably scum? Because the ability to tell if a player is lying is broken in the hands of town but not 100% useless in the hands on scum? Uh huh. You go on to toss more dirt on him by saying the claim is not immediately verifiable. Clearly it's verifiable, but not immediately. Let's see if I can think of another role that fits that description... hmmm... oh yes: cop.
Complete nonsense and fearmongering.
Unvote, Vote: Tilde
This is a horrible, horrible idea. Ecophagy already explaned the reasons quite nicely. You are way smarter than this.
Explaning behavior that no one is really attacking you for? Aren't we a little jumpy?
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
= Have you played with Some One before?
I hate your name. Have I told you that recently?
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
I can easily see a scenario in which scum are able to take a softclaim, ask for "more specific information" if one person's softclaim "matches" their "role's confirmed" town and either confirm a buddy or confirm a townie based on fishing.
@SomeOne: Did you want each of us to say that regardless of whether or not it's true? If you have the mass-truth-telling ability you're hinting at, wouldn't there be a much easier way to massively out scum than this statement?
I hope he looks back over here at me and looks at my face to see what I mean with my idea.
Certainly, it seems wise not trust blindly any similar claim made after tonight, save in extenuating circumstances (like masons to fabricate an example).
However, pinning every player down into stating today whether they could make a claim along the lines as JY in future seems poor. Using the example of mason; they could potentially clear one another similarly to JY, but would probably prefer to remain hidden. Forcing them to state today might out something we don't want outed.
As long as players know that future JY style claims will be looked upon dubiously and that they should proably claim simple knowledge today seems enough.
So, you advocate a softclaim even as the SO debacle goes on?
While a soft claim would be rather useful in verifying JY's information, as well as potentially locking scum out of using the same tactic; I am wary of proceeding with a soft claim while we are working out what to do with SO: namely, whether he has anti-town reasons for advocating a soft-claim.
I am not sure the list is a good idea, and thus abstain from putting my name on it. A little research into the universe of the game will tell if my role PM flavour gives any indication of alignment (or even presence) of other charaters mentioned; or if is simply flavour.
I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the backhandedness. You're smart, but you're argument was stupid.
P'EDIT: Mostly snarth'd by Eco.
I'm not sure what your face has to do with it, but your fear of scum confirming each other is akin to fearing a scum mason claim: it's possible and dangerous to the town, but it's very risky to the scum. Doing so early in the game means a huge risk of getting 2-for-1'd on an investigation or vig shot. On the flip side, ignoring any future information like this because of the fear of it being false is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
And a request: if it is possible to do without breaking your PR, can you please stop using nicknames and indirect references? Use people's names. It's tough enough to follow in-context; rereading you is going to be absolute hell if you keep this up.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Some One has put himself in a position where he's going to have to produce results based on what he's indirectly claimed. There's no sense in pursuing him further right now.
As for JodoYodo's information, I don't think it's time to reveal it just yet. Once we've progressed through the day and have decided on a lynch, but not yet reached it, seems like a better plan. On the off-chance the lynch target is the confirmed townie, the natural reactions of the wagon could be analyzed.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29