Charm, that looks scummy.
The Ad Hom attack on Nai was because he has a very irritating playstyle, and I can't be bothered to argue with him anymore.
You can lynch me if you really want, but when I do turn up town, consider Greymon, possibly Charm, I'm not sure.
Finish the claim, no-one should get out of it.
Oh hey, look, someone else attacks Toastboy and he tells THEM that they are scummy.
Hey toasty, EP voted you too, does that make him scummy?
My God, I painted you as scum because you ARE scum. I went along with the claim at first because I KNEW if I didn't, I was going to be looked at poorly. I've never been involved with a mass claim of any kind on D1, but I thought it was a neutral idea...it wasn't going to help anything (at least right away) and it wasn't going to hurt me personally too much, but then when people started coming out and growing a pair and saying "You know what, my life is in danger if I claim my source right now), I realized that just because I wasn't going to be hurt by the claim doesn't mean the claim isn't a bad thing.
Oh and @me "barning" Nai: I went and commented on a lot of your RESPONSES to what he said, not the SAME THINGS he said. I was defending him because I am reading him strong townie, but he doesn't need to be defended. I was speaking for him a little too much, but he's far better with words than I am, so I'll let him handle that. My attacks on you were all about your crap logic and personal attacks on people rather than hard evidence. I went through that response and looked at everything and you sounded like someone caught in the act, and mad about it. You tell Nai to pull his head out of his ass, you call me scummy as hell, and THEN you tell CM his vote looks "Scummy". All you're doing is flailing and saying "You attack me? Well **** you, you're scum then!" You need to get to 1000+ posts so you can change your title to "OMGUS King".
Oh and that last bit about "when I come up town look at greymon and CM"? Nice little bit of fearmongering. All of your arguments are BS mixed with personal attacks, ad hom, and fearmongering with very little thought or effort put into finding evidence. They are FILLED with the emotion of "aww crap, I'm caught", and you can't get yourself out.
Vote Stands, and I can't believe you haven't been lynched yet.
@ Nai- I happen to be voting the same way that Raf is. This is not barning. And yes, I happen to think he's acting very townie thus far. At the moment, I'm getting mainly townie vibes from you too. However if you two want to compete for world's longest combined wall o' text, I'm not going to stop you unless I feel you're distracting the town. Take that for what you will.
Unvote random vote, FoS equating a vote: Toastboy.
I'll be voting Toastboy following the completion of the soft claim and Callaway's replacement. His last post was like a scum checklist. Flailing, personal attacks, defeatism, baseless speculation. I think he and Oni are lovers and I think he's the scum.
I am suspicious of anyone who is trying to worm out of soft claiming.
I too would like the soft claim to finish.
I'm going to FoS: Toast. At this point the "suspicious" overlapping source claim, and the "vanilla, not vanilla" arguments have more substance.
@Nai I've slogged through the swamps of text. Attacking each line is a tad defensive. I appreciate the effort. But at some point, could I get your argument against Toast boiled down to say 3 major points? Why if you may ask if I'm already FoS Toast, well I just want to settle something in my mind before making my vote.
@Tilde List of Sources? No two overlapping series? Really?
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
You didn't give -any- reasons of your own to vote AE. There was no pressure on him, no wagon you would have felt you could jump on. Hell, if I recall, Raf hadn't officially voted him at that point yet.
You jumped off of the Raf springboard with the threat to make AE vote with a vote of your own. You even SAID you were assisting Raf in your post.
"What makes Raf so sure you'll claim? This does. Vote."
I'm going to FoS: Toast. At this point the "suspicious" overlapping source claim, and the "vanilla, not vanilla" arguments have more substance.
@Nai I've slogged through the swamps of text. Attacking each line is a tad defensive. I appreciate the effort. But at some point, could I get your argument against Toast boiled down to say 3 major points? Why if you may ask if I'm already FoS Toast, well I just want to settle something in my mind before making my vote.
@Tilde List of Sources? No two overlapping series? Really?
I really don't like reducing things to a specific number of points. Especially when, in a case like this, there are so many points against the player in question. I'll try to be succinct in listing my points against him:
First agreement with mass claim - Minor point, but if he turns up scum, this could be a link to CM.
Force-starts the claim - Doesn't wait for everyone to even check in. Doesn't wait for discussion. Claims himself with the intention of starting the claim and getting everyone else claiming.
Railroads the claim - Every time someone's taking time to claim, he posts his list up again and prompts them to go. Note that (last I checked) the claim's stalling on me. He actually posted the list and said that he was assuming I was going to stick to my guns (meaning not claiming), and since our last player is missing, Ace should go.
Bogus first attack - Directly attacks me with utter craplogic as soon as I post a significant post against the claim. Especially goes after my vote on CM, saying I'm focusing too much on one person right there. He votes for me soon afterwards.
Wishy washy - He'll say one thing (I responded to all your points!) while simultaneously doing another. Says one thing and then later tries to retcon it to say or mean something else. Constantly trying to stay in the safe zone.
Ad hom - Several times (especially his latest post) he will attack his attacker instead of their argument and then completely ignore the argument at hand. He sites 'irritation' as his excuse for doing this.
No-pressure claim - This is especially true. With no pressure on him, and no real pressure on Oni any longer, he claims outright.
"Vanilla" claim - Then he claims Vanilla (which means no abilities) and then LATER claims that he's a vanilla who 'could inherit abilities later' and that he's possibly a 'lover'. Something you should note: He doesn't claim the ability to inherit abilities, nor the lover potential, until AFTER someone else says it.
Those are the biggest points against him in my mind.
Just a side comment, Infinis: I don't believe attacking each line is 'defensive'. I'm of the opinion that, if my 'opponent' in any debate is saying something that SHOULD be responded to, I have an obligation to not only point it out, but also respond to it.
And, even more so, if their response at any point is not satisfactory, I will continue to question on it until the response DOES prompt an end to questioning. Whether its a scummy result or townie result, they need to actually answer for whatever the action is in full. Which means not ad homming, not being evasive, not strawmanning, etc.
You didn't notice a difference between me and Oni at all?
Me: Refusing to claim because the majority of town didn't agree on this claim, because I don't believe it will help the town at this point in time, that I believe scum are behind the claim, among other reasons.
Oni: Refusing to claim because there's a chance there's an anti-hero around that could be lynched for his SERIES CLAIM.
You don't notice a difference here?
I see the difference, but the conclusion is still the same. Why are you so up in arms about my post? It wasn't directed at you in any way, and yet you feel the need to challenge it and prove the difference between you and Oni?
Charm, that looks scummy.
The Ad Hom attack on Nai was because he has a very irritating playstyle, and I can't be bothered to argue with him anymore.
You can lynch me if you really want, but when I do turn up town, consider Greymon, possibly Charm, I'm not sure.
Finish the claim, no-one should get out of it.
I dare say this is a town-tell, but the claim of lovers is sketchy.
***
@Greymon's #211: Wow. Emotional post for no reasons much? Why did you go along with something if you thought it wouldn't help the town? Giving into actions no matter the situation benefits only scum.
Also, you seem so hell-bent on the Toastboy lynch. I can see your logic, but you are so very aggressive in your methods. Someone to watch.
***
To get the soft-claim rolling again, I'll claim. I'm from Death Note.
"Vanilla" claim - Then he claims Vanilla (which means no abilities) and then LATER claims that he's a vanilla who 'could inherit abilities later' and that he's possibly a 'lover'. Something you should note: He doesn't claim the ability to inherit abilities, nor the lover potential, until AFTER someone else says it.
Those are the biggest points against him in my mind.
This is the main point. I don't consider his opposition to the claim scummy, or his ad hom (I've been the recipient of what was possibly the worst ad hom ever, in this post, and it came from a townie). I'm more interested in his very sketchy and unpressured claim and his actions vis-a-vis Oni.
EWP: I didn't really like the waffling in Ace's post just above mine, either.
This is the main point. I don't consider his opposition to the claim scummy, or his ad hom (I've been the recipient of what was possibly the worst ad hom ever, in this post, and it came from a townie). I'm more interested in his very sketchy and unpressured claim and his actions vis-a-vis Oni.
EWP: I didn't really like the waffling in Ace's post just above mine, either.
Feel free to actually have an opinion then, rather than generalising with a one-word statement. It would be much appreciated if I had something more to retort to, rather than simply 'waffling'.
@Greymon's #211: Wow. Emotional post for no reasons much? Why did you go along with something if you thought it wouldn't help the town? Giving into actions no matter the situation benefits only scum.
Also, you seem so hell-bent on the Toastboy lynch. I can see your logic, but you are so very aggressive in your methods. Someone to watch.
I'm trying something different this game, in case the people I've played with haven't noticed. I'm trying to be more kpaca-esque, albeit with less shoe-eating
@Tilde List of Sources? No two overlapping series? Really?
I don't know what the mod might have done, I'm just operating on what I know (my role PM), and what people are saying.
Giving the scum a list of in-game sources makes sense.
Telling them : "No 2 players are from the same source" also makes sense. The fact my PM says DragonBall, as opposed to DBZ lends some credence to that.
Either one of those would be sufficent, I'm not making judgements on this, I'm just noting that it does fit into what I'm seeing.
Just a side comment, Infinis: I don't believe attacking each line is 'defensive'. I'm of the opinion that, if my 'opponent' in any debate is saying something that SHOULD be responded to, I have an obligation to not only point it out, but also respond to it.
And, even more so, if their response at any point is not satisfactory, I will continue to question on it until the response DOES prompt an end to questioning. Whether its a scummy result or townie result, they need to actually answer for whatever the action is in full. Which means not ad homming, not being evasive, not strawmanning, etc.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
This has absolutely nothing to do with Oni and you know it. If I accidentally SAID Oni instead of AE, I apologize. This is the post in question:
You didn't give -any- reasons of your own to vote AE. There was no pressure on him, no wagon you would have felt you could jump on. Hell, if I recall, Raf hadn't officially voted him at that point yet.
You jumped off of the Raf springboard with the threat to make AE vote with a vote of your own. You even SAID you were assisting Raf in your post.
"What makes Raf so sure you'll claim? This does. Vote."
Complete and utter barning.
I really don't like reducing things to a specific number of points. Especially when, in a case like this, there are so many points against the player in question. I'll try to be succinct in listing my points against him:
First agreement with mass claim - Minor point, but if he turns up scum, this could be a link to CM.
Force-starts the claim - Doesn't wait for everyone to even check in. Doesn't wait for discussion. Claims himself with the intention of starting the claim and getting everyone else claiming.
Railroads the claim - Every time someone's taking time to claim, he posts his list up again and prompts them to go. Note that (last I checked) the claim's stalling on me. He actually posted the list and said that he was assuming I was going to stick to my guns (meaning not claiming), and since our last player is missing, Ace should go.
Bogus first attack - Directly attacks me with utter craplogic as soon as I post a significant post against the claim. Especially goes after my vote on CM, saying I'm focusing too much on one person right there. He votes for me soon afterwards.
Wishy washy - He'll say one thing (I responded to all your points!) while simultaneously doing another. Says one thing and then later tries to retcon it to say or mean something else. Constantly trying to stay in the safe zone.
Ad hom - Several times (especially his latest post) he will attack his attacker instead of their argument and then completely ignore the argument at hand. He sites 'irritation' as his excuse for doing this.
No-pressure claim - This is especially true. With no pressure on him, and no real pressure on Oni any longer, he claims outright.
"Vanilla" claim - Then he claims Vanilla (which means no abilities) and then LATER claims that he's a vanilla who 'could inherit abilities later' and that he's possibly a 'lover'. Something you should note: He doesn't claim the ability to inherit abilities, nor the lover potential, until AFTER someone else says it.
Those are the biggest points against him in my mind.
Thank you for the succinctness.
agreed minor point but worth noting. I'd also like to point out that in my prior games with a soft claim vote, the most vocal people hammered down those who dared say no on the soft claim. The claim was quick to begin Ill grant you that.
See above
pushy yes indeed, railroad, eh
see bullet 1
I'm guilty of that often playing as town, so it's minor to me, but it adds to other behaviors
ad hominem - it comes down to this usually
suspicious indeed
Don't like it either, I'm trying to decide between is it gaming the mod or scum slip
Meta game argument but @Toast who's the last player in the last game you played here to suggest soft claim?
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I don't know what the mod might have done, I'm just operating on what I know (my role PM), and what people are saying.
Giving the scum a list of in-game sources makes sense.
Telling them : "No 2 players are from the same source" also makes sense. The fact my PM says DragonBall, as opposed to DBZ lends some credence to that.
Either one of those would be sufficent, I'm not making judgements on this, I'm just noting that it does fit into what I'm seeing.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Nai, this is becoming like one of my regular arguments with Cyan, which frankly are the thing which make me hate mafia (and I'm never ever joining a game with him in it again, because it ALWAYS happens unless I'm scum, in which case I can lie and say how great I think his arguments are and we avoid it). I don't have hours to spend going in circles, which is effectively what we are doing. You are willing to write pages and pages about very little- I am not.
There's not a lot of point in me trying to convince you that you're scum, so I'll cut that there.
I think both you and Tilde are committing a major error or being scum by relying on elaborate theories for why the soft claim could benefit scum and yet refusing to believe that something as simple as a namecop or a townie being told "people from X" are town or "people from Y are scum" is possible. We've been through this a million times already, and that's what it comes down to. The "being scum" part comes in when you fish at me to try and find out what I know before you claim yourself.
I will point out that it's incredibly disingenuous for you to pull the
Quote from Nai »
The soft claim? Not scummy. It's a good idea. I have admitted that.
You have fought tooth and nail from the start, labelled everyone scum who supported it from the start. You don't get to suddenly declare that the soft claim is a good idea, but that the people who started it are still scummy, and that you won't personally participate. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Nai. Your arguments tie you in knots.
I didn't suddenly declare that the soft claim was a good idea. I have actually declared it quite a few times, over quite a few pages, that it's a good idea, just not NOW.
Not only have you, again, handwaved an entire post, you've just proven, again, that you're not reading my posts and pulling stuff out of your ass. When you feel like actually responding to anything and not strawmanning/handwaving/making **** up, I'll be here.
Feel free to actually have an opinion then, rather than generalising with a one-word statement. It would be much appreciated if I had something more to retort to, rather than simply 'waffling'.
Sorry, I meant fence-sitting. And here's where you do it:
True, but it's risky so early on in the game. There are many ways to debunk their claim, especially if one of them gets NK'd.
I dare say this is a town-tell, but the claim of lovers is sketchy.
I can see your logic, but you are so very aggressive in your methods. Someone to watch.
In other news, I think it's time you claimed, Nai. You've already conceded the soft claim is a good idea and has potential benefit for the town (of course it does, I made the exact same arguments in Kithkin), so I can't see where your continued reticence is coming from. I think it's evident that a majority of players favor the soft claim, considering they've already claimed.
The thing is Nai, that to me, most of your responses to me look like strawmanning and making stuff up, as I've pointed out numerous times.
On the subject of the soft claim, I think what you're trying to say (consistent with what you said earlier) is you think the soft claim is a scummy idea today but would be OK if done on a later day. By saying "the soft claim is a good idea" you look like you're doing enormous backflips.
I'm not going to take anything on that argument. I said very specifically I would claim when the MAJORITY of players OUTRIGHT STATED they wanted me to claim. So far, about... Six to seven people (can't remember if I counted CM already) have said so out of nine. I'm sticking to my word, thank you.
EBWODP: And now you're putting words in my mouth. I said, very specifically, that the soft claim was a BAD IDEA ON DAY 1. And yes, I think it would be a good idea on a later day.
I'm not doing backflips at all. I think the idea is good, just not today. Not only are you taking what I said out of context, you're also editing the qualifier out to make me seem like a hypocrite.
Nai, just go ahead and claim. All that's left is you, AE and Callaway/Callie's replacement.
It's likely a scum plan, but unless you intend on being the only holdout for your own personal reasons, you might as well. All this headbutting between you and Raf is becoming non-productive.
On the subject of the soft claim, I think what you're trying to say (consistent with what you said earlier) is you think the soft claim is a scummy idea today but would be OK if done on a later day. By saying "the soft claim is a good idea" you look like you're doing enormous backflips.
You've been arguing with me the entire time, and when I see this, ESPECIALLY the second sentence, I'm not supposed to think you're attacking me? The second sentence says I look like I'm doing backflips, so with it, the first sentence looks accusatory, saying that I'm being a hypocrite.
If you're trying to clarify what I said for the sake of others, and since -I'm- the one confused, perhaps it isn't ME who's not expressing themselves clearly?
Also, Tilde, I have other reasons for not wishing to claim my source. However, because they were personal reasons, I didn't want to make them seem like they came before the good of the town. Yes, I actually have a GOOD reason for not wanting to claim.
You've been arguing with me the entire time, and when I see this, ESPECIALLY the second sentence, I'm not supposed to think you're attacking me? The second sentence says I look like I'm doing backflips, so with it, the first sentence looks accusatory, saying that I'm being a hypocrite.
I was attacking you (not in the post you quoted, the previous one) because I misunderstood you (and at least zind obviously did too- not many people are actually posting, it's hard to say if others did) due to you choosing words like "the soft claim is a good idea".
Once you clarified that you hadn't changed from your earlier stuff about it being a bad idea now but maybe a good idea on future days, I understood what you meant and I explained why I had thought you were backflipping.
If you're trying to clarify what I said for the sake of others, and since -I'm- the one confused, perhaps it isn't ME who's not expressing themselves clearly?
Nai, this is the arrogance coming through again. Your posts are hard work at all times.
This is nothing game related- you are clearly intelligent, but you don't edit yourself, you seem to just put lots of words one in front of another and expect everyone to see them the way you see them in your head.
I would suggest if you get a chance that you should spend some time editing other people's work, preferably people who also write in a very wordy style. It helps gain perspective.
Also, Tilde, I have other reasons for not wishing to claim my source. However, because they were personal reasons, I didn't want to make them seem like they came before the good of the town. Yes, I actually have a GOOD reason for not wanting to claim.
It's a little bit late to be pulling this one out.
Also, Tilde, I have other reasons for not wishing to claim my source. However, because they were personal reasons, I didn't want to make them seem like they came before the good of the town. Yes, I actually have a GOOD reason for not wanting to claim.
Not at all. It's important, but I didn't think it needed to be brought up. Now that I'm actually going to be claiming, I thought it'd be important to note. Especially because I have a feeling I know what the response TO my claim will be, and I want people to know I had breadcrumbed it.
My posts may be hard work to read, but they're also hard work to write. Those mega-monster-posts? Took me around two to three hours to slog through everything and type through everything.
And no, I don't edit myself. If I was scum, I'd make mistakes. As town, I don't want people thinking I'm scum making a Freudian slip, or worse.
Also, that's not arrogance. That's me saying that the pot is calling the kettle black.
I really can't think of anything to say to Toast's last tirade, except that he's all but admitting to being scum.
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Greymon. You are a ****, you know that right? I think you are scummy, have done for some time. CM's attack was nothing but barning, trying to fit into the crowd. Scummy. If I really was OMGUS master, why would I not be voting Nai.
First of all, calling me a **** is a GREAT way to play the game...what are you, in third grade?
Secondly, you DID vote Nai, then you UNVOTED him when pressure started to be applied to you. And besides, you don't have to vote to OMGUS. You OMGUSed me, Nai, CM etc. because the minute we said something about you, we were scum!
You think I'm scum? Then MAKE A CASE. You keep saying "I've been acting scummy, I'm scum, blah blah" but you won't do anything or make a case I can defend against, which is making YOUR argument a terrible one.
If I was scum in this poisiotn, I would say 'gg, go scum'.
I'm not. Go ahead and find out.
WIFOM. And besides, even if this wasn't WIFOM, its still BS because you haven't been lynched yet, of COURSE you're not going to say that. Until we enter twilight, you still have a miniscule chance of staying alive, so of course if you're scum you're going to pretend to be townie until that last vote is placed. Nice try, though.
I think we have to finish the source claim and get Callaway's replacement here before we lynch, although I'm pretty sure his lynch is a given.
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If you've got a reason to suspect one of us are scum, the proper thing to do is to make a case. point out what specific posts look scummy and why they prove he's scum. otherwise, you can just lay low until we lynch you.
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"Capitalize on your scumminess"?? Is that not what every town player should be doing? If you're scummy, we vote you until you are dead or have defended yourself adequately, or at least given us a better case against someone else. The last might buy you another day, so feel free to bus your scumbuddy.
In other news, I think it's time you claimed, I think it's evident that a majority of players favor the soft claim, considering they've already claimed.
Here we have it. Don't think I missed anyone. Do you disagree with this Nai? People have jumped around and I'm willing to go anytime now. Does it matter if I still go last or what?
I don't like C_M's latest post against Toast, especially "just lay low until we lynch you." I think it's plain sight coaching, trying to tell a scumbuddy to stop flailing before he incriminates someone else.
I don't like C_M's latest post against Toast, especially "just lay low until we lynch you." I think it's plain sight coaching, trying to tell a scumbuddy to stop flailing before he incriminates someone else.
FoS C_M.
Given previous suspicions, that doesn't seem to be such an obscure an idea at all. It's also interesting that when I asked TB earlier of his opinion of C_M, it was convoluted, and seemed like he couldn't give a straight answer.
You know... Half of me really wants to be anal about it and point out that I said I wouldn't claim until people specifically stated they wanted -me- to claim. That number's still about seven. Its quotes like Zindabad's and Tilde's I'm talking about from AE's list.
The other half of me is really tired of this. So, in all honesty, I'm saying screw it. Let's see what the response is.
Note: I apologize for the lack of a replacement for Callaway. It seems our available replacements were not sufficient. Hopefully a replacement will be found shortly.
And yet you wouldn't join me in saying Tilde's theories were crazy?
Hey Tilde, what was that speculation about only one character per series again?
Surprised to see greymon after all that hasn't even got his vote on Toastboy yet. Wassupwitdat?
greymon's posting has been radiating smug in waves, and all he's doing is barning Nai/Tilde. You can practically see him smiling like the cat that got the canary. He knows (not thinks he knows, or hopes he knows) what the result of this wagon is going to be if it happens, and he likes it. Toastboy has clearly fallen apart under weight of postcount aimed in his direction, but he comes across to me as genuinely frustrated.
AE and Callaway's claims to come, then.
HC, did Callaway confirm at the start of this game? Either way, I reckon he should be submitted to the black list or probation list or whatever we use these days, very poor form to sign up and disappear.
Hey Tilde, what was that speculation about only one character per series again?
Stop being so smugly arrogant. Just because you say something, doesn't mean that everyone who proposes a different opinion or speculates on the set up is wrong.
But actually, these responses from Nai:
Quote from Nai »
Also, Tilde, I have other reasons for not wishing to claim my source. However, because they were personal reasons, I didn't want to make them seem like they came before the good of the town. Yes, I actually have a GOOD reason for not wanting to claim.
Quote from Nai »
Now that I'm actually going to be claiming, I thought it'd be important to note. Especially because I have a feeling I know what the response TO my claim will be, and I want people to know I had breadcrumbed it.
Quote from Nai »
You know... Half of me really wants to be anal about it and point out that I said I wouldn't claim until people specifically stated they wanted -me- to claim. That number's still about seven. Its quotes like Zindabad's and Tilde's I'm talking about from AE's list.
The other half of me is really tired of this. So, in all honesty, I'm saying screw it. Let's see what the response is.
I'm also from Shaman King.
have made me start re-evaluating him. I haven't found any sort of breadcrumbing on his claim, and I don't see why he would think that series claim would draw a negative response just because of the claim.
HC, did Callaway confirm at the start of this game? Either way, I reckon he should be submitted to the black list or probation list or whatever we use these days, very poor form to sign up and disappear.
He did confirm, and afterwards made posts in other parts of the forum but not here. After the first prod I got rather annoyed (in fact I called it "very poor form" as well) but he responded and it sounds like he really just forgot about it. It's still annoying and I can't say I'll be excited to take him in future games but I don't think it's blacklist-worthy.
On a cheerier note, let's all thank loran16 for his magic replacement-attracting cream. I got two PMs within three minutes. We have a replacement.
Rue has joined our game replacing Callaway. Everybody, this is Rue. Rue, this is everybody. Be friendly now.
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Oh hey, look, someone else attacks Toastboy and he tells THEM that they are scummy.
Hey toasty, EP voted you too, does that make him scummy?
My God, I painted you as scum because you ARE scum. I went along with the claim at first because I KNEW if I didn't, I was going to be looked at poorly. I've never been involved with a mass claim of any kind on D1, but I thought it was a neutral idea...it wasn't going to help anything (at least right away) and it wasn't going to hurt me personally too much, but then when people started coming out and growing a pair and saying "You know what, my life is in danger if I claim my source right now), I realized that just because I wasn't going to be hurt by the claim doesn't mean the claim isn't a bad thing.
Oh and @me "barning" Nai: I went and commented on a lot of your RESPONSES to what he said, not the SAME THINGS he said. I was defending him because I am reading him strong townie, but he doesn't need to be defended. I was speaking for him a little too much, but he's far better with words than I am, so I'll let him handle that. My attacks on you were all about your crap logic and personal attacks on people rather than hard evidence. I went through that response and looked at everything and you sounded like someone caught in the act, and mad about it. You tell Nai to pull his head out of his ass, you call me scummy as hell, and THEN you tell CM his vote looks "Scummy". All you're doing is flailing and saying "You attack me? Well **** you, you're scum then!" You need to get to 1000+ posts so you can change your title to "OMGUS King".
Oh and that last bit about "when I come up town look at greymon and CM"? Nice little bit of fearmongering. All of your arguments are BS mixed with personal attacks, ad hom, and fearmongering with very little thought or effort put into finding evidence. They are FILLED with the emotion of "aww crap, I'm caught", and you can't get yourself out.
Vote Stands, and I can't believe you haven't been lynched yet.
I'll be voting Toastboy following the completion of the soft claim and Callaway's replacement. His last post was like a scum checklist. Flailing, personal attacks, defeatism, baseless speculation. I think he and Oni are lovers and I think he's the scum.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I too would like the soft claim to finish.
I'm going to FoS: Toast. At this point the "suspicious" overlapping source claim, and the "vanilla, not vanilla" arguments have more substance.
@Nai I've slogged through the swamps of text. Attacking each line is a tad defensive. I appreciate the effort. But at some point, could I get your argument against Toast boiled down to say 3 major points? Why if you may ask if I'm already FoS Toast, well I just want to settle something in my mind before making my vote.
@Tilde List of Sources? No two overlapping series? Really?
12-11? I'm losing track
This has absolutely nothing to do with Oni and you know it. If I accidentally SAID Oni instead of AE, I apologize. This is the post in question:
You didn't give -any- reasons of your own to vote AE. There was no pressure on him, no wagon you would have felt you could jump on. Hell, if I recall, Raf hadn't officially voted him at that point yet.
You jumped off of the Raf springboard with the threat to make AE vote with a vote of your own. You even SAID you were assisting Raf in your post.
"What makes Raf so sure you'll claim? This does. Vote."
Complete and utter barning.
I really don't like reducing things to a specific number of points. Especially when, in a case like this, there are so many points against the player in question. I'll try to be succinct in listing my points against him:
First agreement with mass claim - Minor point, but if he turns up scum, this could be a link to CM.
Force-starts the claim - Doesn't wait for everyone to even check in. Doesn't wait for discussion. Claims himself with the intention of starting the claim and getting everyone else claiming.
Railroads the claim - Every time someone's taking time to claim, he posts his list up again and prompts them to go. Note that (last I checked) the claim's stalling on me. He actually posted the list and said that he was assuming I was going to stick to my guns (meaning not claiming), and since our last player is missing, Ace should go.
Bogus first attack - Directly attacks me with utter craplogic as soon as I post a significant post against the claim. Especially goes after my vote on CM, saying I'm focusing too much on one person right there. He votes for me soon afterwards.
Wishy washy - He'll say one thing (I responded to all your points!) while simultaneously doing another. Says one thing and then later tries to retcon it to say or mean something else. Constantly trying to stay in the safe zone.
Ad hom - Several times (especially his latest post) he will attack his attacker instead of their argument and then completely ignore the argument at hand. He sites 'irritation' as his excuse for doing this.
No-pressure claim - This is especially true. With no pressure on him, and no real pressure on Oni any longer, he claims outright.
"Vanilla" claim - Then he claims Vanilla (which means no abilities) and then LATER claims that he's a vanilla who 'could inherit abilities later' and that he's possibly a 'lover'. Something you should note: He doesn't claim the ability to inherit abilities, nor the lover potential, until AFTER someone else says it.
Those are the biggest points against him in my mind.
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And, even more so, if their response at any point is not satisfactory, I will continue to question on it until the response DOES prompt an end to questioning. Whether its a scummy result or townie result, they need to actually answer for whatever the action is in full. Which means not ad homming, not being evasive, not strawmanning, etc.
My helpdesk should you need me.
True, but it's risky so early on in the game. There are many ways to debunk their claim, especially if one of them gets NK'd.
I see the difference, but the conclusion is still the same. Why are you so up in arms about my post? It wasn't directed at you in any way, and yet you feel the need to challenge it and prove the difference between you and Oni?
I dare say this is a town-tell, but the claim of lovers is sketchy.
***
@Greymon's #211: Wow. Emotional post for no reasons much? Why did you go along with something if you thought it wouldn't help the town? Giving into actions no matter the situation benefits only scum.
Also, you seem so hell-bent on the Toastboy lynch. I can see your logic, but you are so very aggressive in your methods. Someone to watch.
***
To get the soft-claim rolling again, I'll claim. I'm from Death Note.
This is the main point. I don't consider his opposition to the claim scummy, or his ad hom (I've been the recipient of what was possibly the worst ad hom ever, in this post, and it came from a townie). I'm more interested in his very sketchy and unpressured claim and his actions vis-a-vis Oni.
EWP: I didn't really like the waffling in Ace's post just above mine, either.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Feel free to actually have an opinion then, rather than generalising with a one-word statement. It would be much appreciated if I had something more to retort to, rather than simply 'waffling'.
AE asks about an option C, where I don't claim.
You ask why it would be okay for me to refuse to claim if Oni was forced to.
So I ask you if you don't see a difference between the two cases.
You're talking about me, saying that I should claim. Are you saying that I -shouldn't- have an opinion on this?
My helpdesk should you need me.
I'm trying something different this game, in case the people I've played with haven't noticed. I'm trying to be more kpaca-esque, albeit with less shoe-eating
I don't know what the mod might have done, I'm just operating on what I know (my role PM), and what people are saying.
Giving the scum a list of in-game sources makes sense.
Telling them : "No 2 players are from the same source" also makes sense. The fact my PM says DragonBall, as opposed to DBZ lends some credence to that.
Either one of those would be sufficent, I'm not making judgements on this, I'm just noting that it does fit into what I'm seeing.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Indeed
12-11? I'm losing track
Thank you for the succinctness.
12-11? I'm losing track
Very well, duly noted.
12-11? I'm losing track
There's not a lot of point in me trying to convince you that you're scum, so I'll cut that there.
I think both you and Tilde are committing a major error or being scum by relying on elaborate theories for why the soft claim could benefit scum and yet refusing to believe that something as simple as a namecop or a townie being told "people from X" are town or "people from Y are scum" is possible. We've been through this a million times already, and that's what it comes down to. The "being scum" part comes in when you fish at me to try and find out what I know before you claim yourself.
I will point out that it's incredibly disingenuous for you to pull the
You have fought tooth and nail from the start, labelled everyone scum who supported it from the start. You don't get to suddenly declare that the soft claim is a good idea, but that the people who started it are still scummy, and that you won't personally participate. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Nai. Your arguments tie you in knots.
Not only have you, again, handwaved an entire post, you've just proven, again, that you're not reading my posts and pulling stuff out of your ass. When you feel like actually responding to anything and not strawmanning/handwaving/making **** up, I'll be here.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Sorry, I meant fence-sitting. And here's where you do it:
In other news, I think it's time you claimed, Nai. You've already conceded the soft claim is a good idea and has potential benefit for the town (of course it does, I made the exact same arguments in Kithkin), so I can't see where your continued reticence is coming from. I think it's evident that a majority of players favor the soft claim, considering they've already claimed.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
On the subject of the soft claim, I think what you're trying to say (consistent with what you said earlier) is you think the soft claim is a scummy idea today but would be OK if done on a later day. By saying "the soft claim is a good idea" you look like you're doing enormous backflips.
My helpdesk should you need me.
I'm not doing backflips at all. I think the idea is good, just not today. Not only are you taking what I said out of context, you're also editing the qualifier out to make me seem like a hypocrite.
You're amazingly good at using obvious fallacies.
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You do not express yourself anywhere near as clearly as you think you do.
It's likely a scum plan, but unless you intend on being the only holdout for your own personal reasons, you might as well. All this headbutting between you and Raf is becoming non-productive.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
You've been arguing with me the entire time, and when I see this, ESPECIALLY the second sentence, I'm not supposed to think you're attacking me? The second sentence says I look like I'm doing backflips, so with it, the first sentence looks accusatory, saying that I'm being a hypocrite.
If you're trying to clarify what I said for the sake of others, and since -I'm- the one confused, perhaps it isn't ME who's not expressing themselves clearly?
Also, Tilde, I have other reasons for not wishing to claim my source. However, because they were personal reasons, I didn't want to make them seem like they came before the good of the town. Yes, I actually have a GOOD reason for not wanting to claim.
My helpdesk should you need me.
I was attacking you (not in the post you quoted, the previous one) because I misunderstood you (and at least zind obviously did too- not many people are actually posting, it's hard to say if others did) due to you choosing words like "the soft claim is a good idea".
Once you clarified that you hadn't changed from your earlier stuff about it being a bad idea now but maybe a good idea on future days, I understood what you meant and I explained why I had thought you were backflipping.
Nai, this is the arrogance coming through again. Your posts are hard work at all times.
This is nothing game related- you are clearly intelligent, but you don't edit yourself, you seem to just put lots of words one in front of another and expect everyone to see them the way you see them in your head.
I would suggest if you get a chance that you should spend some time editing other people's work, preferably people who also write in a very wordy style. It helps gain perspective.
It's a little bit late to be pulling this one out.
- Color me intrigued by this.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
My posts may be hard work to read, but they're also hard work to write. Those mega-monster-posts? Took me around two to three hours to slog through everything and type through everything.
And no, I don't edit myself. If I was scum, I'd make mistakes. As town, I don't want people thinking I'm scum making a Freudian slip, or worse.
Also, that's not arrogance. That's me saying that the pot is calling the kettle black.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
First of all, calling me a **** is a GREAT way to play the game...what are you, in third grade?
Secondly, you DID vote Nai, then you UNVOTED him when pressure started to be applied to you. And besides, you don't have to vote to OMGUS. You OMGUSed me, Nai, CM etc. because the minute we said something about you, we were scum!
You think I'm scum? Then MAKE A CASE. You keep saying "I've been acting scummy, I'm scum, blah blah" but you won't do anything or make a case I can defend against, which is making YOUR argument a terrible one.
WIFOM. And besides, even if this wasn't WIFOM, its still BS because you haven't been lynched yet, of COURSE you're not going to say that. Until we enter twilight, you still have a miniscule chance of staying alive, so of course if you're scum you're going to pretend to be townie until that last vote is placed. Nice try, though.
I'm still reluctant to lynch him before Callaway is replaced, however. Any word on that?
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Agreed.
I'm in this boat also. I'm going back to see how many commented on Nai claiming.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Here we have it. Don't think I missed anyone. Do you disagree with this Nai? People have jumped around and I'm willing to go anytime now. Does it matter if I still go last or what?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
FoS C_M.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Given previous suspicions, that doesn't seem to be such an obscure an idea at all. It's also interesting that when I asked TB earlier of his opinion of C_M, it was convoluted, and seemed like he couldn't give a straight answer.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
The other half of me is really tired of this. So, in all honesty, I'm saying screw it. Let's see what the response is.
I'm also from Shaman King.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Oni Kuma - 2 (Slio9, Wrath_of_DoG)
Archmage Eternal - 1 (Shadow Knight)
Toastboy - 4 (Archmage Eternal, Nai, ~Tilde~, Charm_Master3125)
greymon90210 - 1 (Toastboy)
Note: I apologize for the lack of a replacement for Callaway. It seems our available replacements were not sufficient. Hopefully a replacement will be found shortly.
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
And yet you wouldn't join me in saying Tilde's theories were crazy?
Hey Tilde, what was that speculation about only one character per series again?
Surprised to see greymon after all that hasn't even got his vote on Toastboy yet. Wassupwitdat?
greymon's posting has been radiating smug in waves, and all he's doing is barning Nai/Tilde. You can practically see him smiling like the cat that got the canary. He knows (not thinks he knows, or hopes he knows) what the result of this wagon is going to be if it happens, and he likes it. Toastboy has clearly fallen apart under weight of postcount aimed in his direction, but he comes across to me as genuinely frustrated.
AE and Callaway's claims to come, then.
HC, did Callaway confirm at the start of this game? Either way, I reckon he should be submitted to the black list or probation list or whatever we use these days, very poor form to sign up and disappear.
Stop being so smugly arrogant. Just because you say something, doesn't mean that everyone who proposes a different opinion or speculates on the set up is wrong.
But actually, these responses from Nai:
have made me start re-evaluating him. I haven't found any sort of breadcrumbing on his claim, and I don't see why he would think that series claim would draw a negative response just because of the claim.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
On a cheerier note, let's all thank loran16 for his magic replacement-attracting cream. I got two PMs within three minutes. We have a replacement.
Rue has joined our game replacing Callaway. Everybody, this is Rue. Rue, this is everybody. Be friendly now.