He'd kill people without actual knowledge of what they are. If he were to hit 3 town, whether on accident or not, the town is losing the game that much faster.
-Alpha
yes, but say he hit scum? mabye that'd be a good thing. your really saying is "although it could be bad for scum, i'll ignore that, and say it could be bad for Us".
that's like saying SKs are flat out bad all the time, beacuse they could hit town.
also, Going to grab food and watch fringe, back in an hour or so
@AI: If I'm neutral that wants to be lynched, there are easier ways to go about it than suggesting that I be lynched. I know how that reads, but when you suggest that people lynch you, they immediately become suspicious(understandably). My suggestions have obvious pro-town intent, whereas if I didn't have the town's best interests in mind, I would simply act as scummy as possible, make some dumb claim, and hope I got lynched. The way I approached it makes it less likely that a townie is going to make themselves look bad, or that scum will make themselves look good.
Yeeaaaahhhhh...but there is an incredible amount of WIFOM to be had here. A player of your reputation and caliber might not get away with being obvscum to try to get lynched. Or maybe you knew that, blah, blah, blah, etc.
Lots of room for interpretation.
But don't let that detract from what I'm really saying. It doesn't make sense to lynch you right now. I'm of the opinion that when you've found scum, quicklynching doesn't matter one way or the other. But this is a different scenario. No harming in letting discussion run a little longer than the first half real-life day.
-Alpha
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
yes, but say he hit scum? mabye that'd be a good thing. your really saying is "although it could be bad for scum, i'll ignore that, and say it could be bad for Us".
that's like saying SKs are flat out bad all the time, beacuse they could hit town.
also, Going to grab food and watch fringe, back in an hour or so
Of course it could be bad for scum. Statistically, though, it's much more likely to be bad for the town.
You seem to be forgetting what we're discussing. You said he'd negatively benefit everyone equally if neutral. I let you know why that isn't the case. I wasn't ignoring anything.
-Alpha
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
No, I just copy+pasted, what appears when you put someone on your ignore list. You can still view their posts you just have to click "view post" next to their post.
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Typically the player killed in the beginning of the game has been killed by mafia not SK. Regardless, your role sounds like you could have just tweaked it a bit and added in the wins with town clause. Just the feeling I get.
Nitpick: In Amistarian, the mafia killed one person in the opening flavour, and the SK killed 80. So....
Kpaca's argument is logically sound. You're all correct that I could be scum that gains an ability when dead. But if that were the case, I'd still be dead scum, and that hurts the scum no matter how you slice it.
Whereas, being dead vanilla town hurts the town very little. Especially if said death occurs via daykill.
@DV: Nice deflection.
This is valid, although there's the argument of some supercharged ability they know they'll get. This does not seem particularly likely.
Everyone jumping on D_V is really funny. I would put money on the fact that there's at least one blood-hungry newbish scum in the wagon.
Also, don't see much point in killing Cyan right now. Let's say for kicks and giggles that he's vanilla town that beefs up when deadified. Offing him is then a good thing.
However, that doesn't mean that nothing bad can come of lynching/daykilling/deah-by-rabbit-ing him. If he's vanilla-ish scum that gains some beyond-the-grave power when dead, that seriously hurts the town. Or some neutral with a gained ability.
And those who are saying this should slow down? Are they wrong? Of course not. Some haven't even checked in. And here we're ready to arm a guy based on absolutely nothing but a game mechanic.
Sah-low Your Roll.
-Alpha
What is your basis for defending DV, other than the speed of his wagon?
He'd kill people without actual knowledge of what they are. If he were to hit 3 town, whether on accident or not, the town is losing the game that much faster.
-Alpha
This is a bovine faeces argument.
FoS: AlphaInsidious
Also, how do you know that whatever ability Cyan might gain on death is a killing ability?
Yeeaaaahhhhh...but there is an incredible amount of WIFOM to be had here. A player of your reputation and caliber might not get away with being obvscum to try to get lynched. Or maybe you knew that, blah, blah, blah, etc.
Lots of room for interpretation.
But don't let that detract from what I'm really saying. It doesn't make sense to lynch you right now. I'm of the opinion that when you've found scum, quicklynching doesn't matter one way or the other. But this is a different scenario. No harming in letting discussion run a little longer than the first half real-life day.
-Alpha
Cyan was asking to be daykilled, not lynched, at a time when another player had already claimed a kill. While your argument pertaining to making decisions too quickly is valid, 'discussion' would have continued regardless, assuming the daykill happened, and with all the same players.
This feels like a delaying action, somehow. I'm not entirely sure yet whether there's a scum purpose to this, though, other than believing Cyan.
Wow way to lie. I have been lynched once or twice. One game I was town the other I was scum. Please stop lying it hurts.
You know when ever you think you have a scum picked out you are always so SURE. But you haven't been right in the games I have played with you. Remember Amistarian Mafia? 0 for like 40 million shots. Then remember Tales of Fantastic? Where I was scum and convinced you I was town. But YOU can read me o boy you can read me. You are so right it hurts the town and everyone else.
Baseless aggression doesn't help your case much. Try answering these questions when you wake up:
1. Why are you against Cyan being daykilled when he asks for it?
2. Do you believe Cyan is scum/neutral?
3. Pursuant to the above, why do you think Cyan is 'wrong' about you?
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Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I didn't defend D_V. I made a comment about those jumping the wagon with fervor early on.
Later I discussed the dead scum argument with Cyan, and found his logic satisfying. I am more apprehensive about neutral possibilities.
Cyan may have asked to be daykilled, but I was referring to the possibility of him being lynched, which would end discussion. Straw-man.
-Alpha
I don't know that it would be a killing ability. In fact, if he is town, it certainly might not be (if he gets one at all). But if he's a non-town alignment, I was positing the worst while in an argument with Niv.
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
My character is described in the flavor of my role PM as a spirit detective.
I sincerely doubt that that I would gain any kind of killing ability.
And to be fair, initially I just asked to be lynched(actually I PMed Loran and asked if I could just vote myself to lynch myself, which immediately prompted him to edit the rules post and remove this clause), but that was when I didn't know that a daykill was available. I amended my request after bilbrox's statement.
@AI: Because my requested method of death is now daykill, and not lynch(to be honest, I am slightly worried that a daykill won't trigger whatever abilities I might gain, because it seems easy to just have Bilbrox daykill everyone that suspects that they might benefit from it..but the risk of this is better than lynching me, so, it's a chance we'll have to take) there is no real reason to wait. If you disagree in entirety with me being daykilled at all, then that is one thing. But if not, then waiting doesn't have any benefits, because it is only a daykill.
I didn't defend D_V. I made a comment about those jumping the wagon with fervor early on.
Later I discussed the dead scum argument with Cyan, and found his logic satisfying. I am more apprehensive about neutral possibilities.
Cyan may have asked to be daykilled, but I was referring to the possibility of him being lynched, which would end discussion. Straw-man.
-Alpha
I don't know that it would be a killing ability. In fact, if he is town, it certainly might not be (if he gets one at all). But if he's a non-town alignment, I was positing the worst while in an argument with Niv.
Last I checked, laying odds that there's a 'blood hungry newbie scum' on DV's wagon would seem to heavily imply you believe him to be town.
If you found Cyan's logic satisfying, why did you bring up the self-admitted 'WIFOM' argument?
I find it interesting that you call me questioning you a 'strawman', when Cyan never asked to be lynched, and the direction of the town is most certainly nowhere near heading towards Cyan being lynched, no matter how vaguely suicidal he may be at the moment. Why refer to something that doesn't even seem to be a possibility at the moment?
I can think of worse options for the town than a dead-killer, but that's valid. This does not change the fact that your argument is a bovine faeces argument -- it is a known fact that SKs are often high priority for mafia to off because of the added complication and cross-kill possibilities they bring to the table.
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Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
My character is described in the flavor of my role PM as a spirit detective.
I sincerely doubt that that I would gain any kind of killing ability.
And to be fair, initially I just asked to be lynched(actually I PMed Loran and asked if I could just vote myself to lynch myself, which immediately prompted him to edit the rules post and remove this clause), but that was when I didn't know that a daykill was available. I amended my request after bilbrox's statement.
@AI: Because my requested method of death is now daykill, and not lynch(to be honest, I am slightly worried that a daykill won't trigger whatever abilities I might gain, because it seems easy to just have Bilbrox daykill everyone that suspects that they might benefit from it..but the risk of this is better than lynching me, so, it's a chance we'll have to take) there is no real reason to wait. If you disagree in entirety with me being daykilled at all, then that is one thing. But if not, then waiting doesn't have any benefits, because it is only a daykill.
I don't read AI as defending DV, FWIW.
Oops. I stand corrected.
This does not change the fact that AI's post came waaay after you changed your request to daykill, and while you being lynched was simply not close to being a real possibility.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Last I checked, laying odds that there's a 'blood hungry newbie scum' on DV's wagon would seem to heavily imply you believe him to be town.
If you found Cyan's logic satisfying, why did you bring up the self-admitted 'WIFOM' argument?
Doesn't change the fact that I did nothing to defend D_V. At the time that I posted it, the extremely quick and hollow wagon was much more strikingly bad than anything D_V had said. D_V could still be anything, as far as I'm concerned.
His dead scum logic was satisfying. The case I stressed was neutral possibilities. The WIFOM argument was directed at Cyan speaking about how much easier it would be for him, if he were a neutral, to get lynched.
This does not change the fact that AI's post came waaay after you changed your request to daykill, and while you being lynched was simply not close to being a real possibility.
It's rather immaterial whether it was close or not. Just as those voting Cyan were weighing in on whether lynching him was a good idea or not, I was doing the same. To be frank, given the rather distant deadline for Day 1, even if the lynch took a few real life days, it would be somewhat too soon.
FWIW, Cyan's subsequent postings and responses to me have led me to read him as a more likely truthful town. To the point where I wouldn't be against a daykill.
-Alpha
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Doesn't change the fact that I did nothing to defend D_V. At the time that I posted it, the extremely quick and hollow wagon was much more strikingly bad than anything D_V had said. D_V could still be anything, as far as I'm concerned.
I disagree with this assessment. It's true that DV acquired some votes quickly, but he certainly deserved them. If you read the various votes against him, everyone notices the same things, but responds in their own fashion. There really aren't any 'barn' votes. Most of the votes read to me as entirely sincere.
Doesn't change the fact that I did nothing to defend D_V. At the time that I posted it, the extremely quick and hollow wagon was much more strikingly bad than anything D_V had said. D_V could still be anything, as far as I'm concerned.
I'd argue on the 'defence', point, but that would be unproductive at this point in time. I'll ask instead, then -- since you find the wagon on D_V 'quick and hollow', and apparently have issues with some of the people on it, I'd ask you to give your opinions of the people currently voting D_V, which include, as far as I can tell, the following:
His dead scum logic was satisfying. The case I stressed was neutral possibilities. The WIFOM argument was directed at Cyan speaking about how much easier it would be for him, if he were a neutral, to get lynched.
It's rather immaterial whether it was close or not. Just as those voting Cyan were weighing in on whether lynching him was a good idea or not, I was doing the same. To be frank, given the rather distant deadline for Day 1, even if the lynch took a few real life days, it would be somewhat too soon.
FWIW, Cyan's subsequent postings and responses to me have led me to read him as a more likely truthful town. To the point where I wouldn't be against a daykill.
-Alpha
...which postings and responses, and why exactly? Because I don't see too many replies from him in between your argument with Niv and now.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Also, I don't recall very many people voting Cyan at all. Except Niv, and he unvoted/voted DV in the same post.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Damn you alternate time zone peoples. I'm away for about 8 or so hours and there's an extra eight or so pages. I expected you all to be posting when I'm asleep
now then, from what I'm reading into my role, I might be able to help solve a couple dilemmas, but I'll need some help and time. In the meantime:
Vote DV
How someone can be this scummy this early is beyond me...I'm not sure if I was worse than this in code geass but it's probably up there.
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It was to make sure we don't accidentally speed lynch. I noticed you did it a couple posts before Ced posted a vote count, so I don't get why you're confused by me doing that.
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It was to make sure we don't accidentally speed lynch. I noticed you did it a couple posts before Ced posted a vote count, so I don't get why you're confused by me doing that.
I'm pretty sure he was just asking AI's opinions on the people on the wagon, not trying to stop a speed-lynch.
Also, in one of your previous posts I think you misread DV. I'm not sure what the exact wording was, but basically you attacked him for saying that he had never been in a game with Cyan when he had, but really he said that he was in a game in Cyan (I'm probably not making much sense but basically just go back and read that post against DV and you'll see what I'm talking about).
Damn you alternate time zone peoples. I'm away for about 8 or so hours and there's an extra eight or so pages. I expected you all to be posting when I'm asleep
Also, I'm not dead? You make me sad, dear DV.
So, DV is jester?
There's not much content here despite there being 8 pages for you to comment on.
Doesn't change the fact that I did nothing to defend D_V. At the time that I posted it, the extremely quick and hollow wagon was much more strikingly bad than anything D_V had said. D_V could still be anything, as far as I'm concerned.
Are you going to ignore all the Massive tells DVs been spewing?
Damn you alternate time zone peoples. I'm away for about 8 or so hours and there's an extra eight or so pages. I expected you all to be posting when I'm asleep
Also, I'm not dead? You make me sad, dear DV.
So, DV is jester?
What the hell does this post even contribute to the game, mabye you could include some opponions, a vote, something helpful. also, you should really go to 40PPP
now then, from what I'm reading into my role, I might be able to help solve a couple dilemmas, but I'll need some help and time. In the meantime:
Vote DV
How someone can be this scummy this early is beyond me...I'm not sure if I was worse than this in code geass but it's probably up there.
Hmm, not even gonna provide some insight here, which posts barther you. all i know is that your going with the current wagon (abet a good one). not what you found scummy (unlees you found everything scummy).
1) bilbroxain's self-description sounded like he was hiding information.
2) the 'for some reason' was to indicate that i didn't have a logical reason, just a gut feeling that killing cyan was a-ok.
i'm not feeling good about the DV wagon. i'm not seeing what's so different about his play this time from every other time he's spewed a lot of nonsense.
Hmm, not even gonna provide some insight here, which posts barther you. all i know is that your going with the current wagon (abet a good one). not what you found scummy (unlees you found everything scummy).
Yes. I did find everything he's said to just be terribly scummy, to the point he might as well broadcast it to the rest of the world.
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i'm not feeling good about the DV wagon. i'm not seeing what's so different about his play this time from every other time he's spewed a lot of nonsense.
So your giving someone a pass beacuse you say that they "Spew Nonsence" Everytime they play? I'm pretty sure that regardless as well, this is Scummy Nonsence.
So your giving someone a pass beacuse you say that they "Spew Nonsence" Everytime they play? I'm pretty sure that regardless as well, this is Scummy Nonsence.
interesting. FoS Charm Master.
Please clarify you're first two sentences. The second one in particular makes no grammatical sense.
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1. Why are you against Cyan being daykilled when he asks for it?
Well, I am no longer against it mostly because I agree with what Kpaca wrote. A dead scum is a dead scum and a townie that wants to be dead for an ability is also very good. That being said I heavily stress that I want Bilb to wait until the majority of the town agrees that killing Cyan is a good idea.(I am treating bilb like I would any other vig.)
2. Do you believe Cyan is scum/neutral?
I don't, I was just throwing reasons out for why we might not want to kill Cyan straight up.
3. Pursuant to the above, why do you think Cyan is 'wrong' about you?
Because my role pm says that I win with the town. But in all seriousness I feel like Cyan always does this he goes after people and everyone band wagons who Cyan thinks is scum, and in reality I haven't seen him be right more than once or twice. But because he is Cyan the great god of mafia everyone else seems to follow him.(I also feel that he is mad about the last game where I convinced him I was town. And I used his kills against the town.)
O yeah and, UnvoteVote Charm_master Vote Charm_master
It was to make sure we don't accidentally speed lynch. I noticed you did it a couple posts before Ced posted a vote count, so I don't get why you're confused by me doing that.
If I am so scummy than don't you want to lynch me anyways?
1. Why are you against Cyan being daykilled when he asks for it?
Well, I am no longer against it mostly because I agree with what Kpaca wrote. A dead scum is a dead scum and a townie that wants to be dead for an ability is also very good. That being said I heavily stress that I want Bilb to wait until the majority of the town agrees that killing Cyan is a good idea.(I am treating bilb like I would any other vig.)
@ Skander I see nothing wrong with either of these statements.
In the first you say that you support killing Cyan, but want to slow down and hear everyone's opinions first.
In the second you attack Jobie for thinking you are so scummy but wanting to slow down and not speed lynch you (I am aware of why Jobie wants to do this since it is the same reason I do, but I am interested in why you are attacking him for basically proposing the same thing that you are, but on a different player).
So your giving someone a pass beacuse you say that they "Spew Nonsence" Everytime they play? I'm pretty sure that regardless as well, this is Scummy Nonsence.
i'm not giving him a pass, but i am giving him a bit more leeway. he's an easy target, also, so i'm eyeing the people who attack him with a little more skepticism too.
In the second you attack Jobie for thinking you are so scummy but wanting to slow down and not speed lynch you (I am aware of why Jobie wants to do this since it is the same reason I do, but I am interested in why you are attacking him for basically proposing the same thing that you are, but on a different player).
I see your point. But it doesn't jive with Jobies attitude toward me. He is A) ignoring most of what I am saying this is proved by the fact that he put me on the ignore list. And B) The fact that he is ignoring my good points and just exploiting my bad points.
ebwop, also, just wanna say, in a couple of hours i'll be heading down to des moines for the ptq. might not post again after that until sunday. depends on the motel wireless, pretty much.
Those Still Breathing:
1. Kpaca
2. Ged
3. Niv
4. Shadow Knight
5. Charm_Master
6. Cyan
7. Skander
8. Help I'm A Bug
9. DesCoures
10. Wrath_of_dog
11. Guardman
12. AlphaInsidious
13. Archmage Eternal
14. Ace
15. Seppel.
16. Jobie
17. Creampuffeater
18. Infinis
19. Zionite
20. Some One
21. Death's Vampire
Those With Us In Spirit:
22. Bilbroxain - Mayor Harold Jones
EDIT: With 21 Alive, it is 11 to lynch.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I'm not trying to offend you. I'm just saying that I've been in several games with you and I recall you playing bad in them.
I am not offended I just can't recall any game that you have ever attacked me ever. Especially I can't recall you ever saying that I play badly before.
Honestly, DV strikes me in the same manner tilde usually does; totally unhelpful and even detrimental to the town for the sake of garnering attention. It's not good game theory, and it's not doing anyone any favors.
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Honestly, DV strikes me in the same manner tilde usually does; totally unhelpful and even detrimental to the town for the sake of garnering attention. It's not good game theory, and it's not doing anyone any favors.
Honestly, DV strikes me in the same manner tilde usually does; totally unhelpful and even detrimental to the town for the sake of garnering attention. It's not good game theory, and it's not doing anyone any favors.
'
Because a lurker like you can talk that does nothing what so ever. Have you ever done anything other than lurk in any game that I have played with you?(Skander didn't offend me you have.)
I am not offended I just can't recall any game that you have ever attacked me ever. Especially I can't recall you ever saying that I play badly before.
Ongoing game. Not much else to say regarding this.
Ongoing game. Not much else to say regarding this.
What do you mean by this? I am in no ongoing games. My other game hasn't started yet. And if you are talking about Cubus's game I barley played in that game.
so DV is a doublevoter. do people still think he's scum?
I'm beginning to have second doubts about DV, but this has nothing to do with it. Why can't a scum be a doublevoter? This just strikes me as you know DV is town and want to be on the right side of his lynch.
What do you mean by this? I am in no ongoing games. My other game hasn't started yet. And if you are talking about Cubus's game I barley played in that game.
Yes, Cubus. You used to be in it. As I said it's ongoing though.
i was under the impression that doublevoters were very unlikely to be scum, what with how they screw up lylo math and can totally ambush the town. (1 doublevoter scum vs 5 townies is lylo, for example)
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yes, but say he hit scum? mabye that'd be a good thing. your really saying is "although it could be bad for scum, i'll ignore that, and say it could be bad for Us".
that's like saying SKs are flat out bad all the time, beacuse they could hit town.
also, Going to grab food and watch fringe, back in an hour or so
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Yeeaaaahhhhh...but there is an incredible amount of WIFOM to be had here. A player of your reputation and caliber might not get away with being obvscum to try to get lynched. Or maybe you knew that, blah, blah, blah, etc.
Lots of room for interpretation.
But don't let that detract from what I'm really saying. It doesn't make sense to lynch you right now. I'm of the opinion that when you've found scum, quicklynching doesn't matter one way or the other. But this is a different scenario. No harming in letting discussion run a little longer than the first half real-life day.
-Alpha
Of course it could be bad for scum. Statistically, though, it's much more likely to be bad for the town.
You seem to be forgetting what we're discussing. You said he'd negatively benefit everyone equally if neutral. I let you know why that isn't the case. I wasn't ignoring anything.
-Alpha
No, I just copy+pasted, what appears when you put someone on your ignore list. You can still view their posts you just have to click "view post" next to their post.
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...what? What exactly are you trying to say in the above?
Why?
...I also do not like your later arguments. At all.
@hiab
Why?
Why? (And why 'for some reason'?)
@Skander
Nitpick: In Amistarian, the mafia killed one person in the opening flavour, and the SK killed 80. So....
@Cyan
This is valid, although there's the argument of some supercharged ability they know they'll get. This does not seem particularly likely.
@Jobie
Why 'tossing out the warning'?
@AlphaInsidious
What is your basis for defending DV, other than the speed of his wagon?
How does a dead scum not help the town?
This is a bovine faeces argument.
FoS: AlphaInsidious
Also, how do you know that whatever ability Cyan might gain on death is a killing ability?
Cyan was asking to be daykilled, not lynched, at a time when another player had already claimed a kill. While your argument pertaining to making decisions too quickly is valid, 'discussion' would have continued regardless, assuming the daykill happened, and with all the same players.
This feels like a delaying action, somehow. I'm not entirely sure yet whether there's a scum purpose to this, though, other than believing Cyan.
@Deaths_Vampire
Baseless aggression doesn't help your case much. Try answering these questions when you wake up:
1. Why are you against Cyan being daykilled when he asks for it?
2. Do you believe Cyan is scum/neutral?
3. Pursuant to the above, why do you think Cyan is 'wrong' about you?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
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Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I didn't defend D_V. I made a comment about those jumping the wagon with fervor early on.
Later I discussed the dead scum argument with Cyan, and found his logic satisfying. I am more apprehensive about neutral possibilities.
Cyan may have asked to be daykilled, but I was referring to the possibility of him being lynched, which would end discussion. Straw-man.
-Alpha
I don't know that it would be a killing ability. In fact, if he is town, it certainly might not be (if he gets one at all). But if he's a non-town alignment, I was positing the worst while in an argument with Niv.
I sincerely doubt that that I would gain any kind of killing ability.
And to be fair, initially I just asked to be lynched(actually I PMed Loran and asked if I could just vote myself to lynch myself, which immediately prompted him to edit the rules post and remove this clause), but that was when I didn't know that a daykill was available. I amended my request after bilbrox's statement.
@AI: Because my requested method of death is now daykill, and not lynch(to be honest, I am slightly worried that a daykill won't trigger whatever abilities I might gain, because it seems easy to just have Bilbrox daykill everyone that suspects that they might benefit from it..but the risk of this is better than lynching me, so, it's a chance we'll have to take) there is no real reason to wait. If you disagree in entirety with me being daykilled at all, then that is one thing. But if not, then waiting doesn't have any benefits, because it is only a daykill.
I don't read AI as defending DV, FWIW.
Last I checked, laying odds that there's a 'blood hungry newbie scum' on DV's wagon would seem to heavily imply you believe him to be town.
If you found Cyan's logic satisfying, why did you bring up the self-admitted 'WIFOM' argument?
I find it interesting that you call me questioning you a 'strawman', when Cyan never asked to be lynched, and the direction of the town is most certainly nowhere near heading towards Cyan being lynched, no matter how vaguely suicidal he may be at the moment. Why refer to something that doesn't even seem to be a possibility at the moment?
I can think of worse options for the town than a dead-killer, but that's valid. This does not change the fact that your argument is a bovine faeces argument -- it is a known fact that SKs are often high priority for mafia to off because of the added complication and cross-kill possibilities they bring to the table.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
@Cyan
Oops. I stand corrected.
This does not change the fact that AI's post came waaay after you changed your request to daykill, and while you being lynched was simply not close to being a real possibility.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Doesn't change the fact that I did nothing to defend D_V. At the time that I posted it, the extremely quick and hollow wagon was much more strikingly bad than anything D_V had said. D_V could still be anything, as far as I'm concerned.
His dead scum logic was satisfying. The case I stressed was neutral possibilities. The WIFOM argument was directed at Cyan speaking about how much easier it would be for him, if he were a neutral, to get lynched.
It's rather immaterial whether it was close or not. Just as those voting Cyan were weighing in on whether lynching him was a good idea or not, I was doing the same. To be frank, given the rather distant deadline for Day 1, even if the lynch took a few real life days, it would be somewhat too soon.
FWIW, Cyan's subsequent postings and responses to me have led me to read him as a more likely truthful town. To the point where I wouldn't be against a daykill.
-Alpha
I disagree with this assessment. It's true that DV acquired some votes quickly, but he certainly deserved them. If you read the various votes against him, everyone notices the same things, but responds in their own fashion. There really aren't any 'barn' votes. Most of the votes read to me as entirely sincere.
I'd argue on the 'defence', point, but that would be unproductive at this point in time. I'll ask instead, then -- since you find the wagon on D_V 'quick and hollow', and apparently have issues with some of the people on it, I'd ask you to give your opinions of the people currently voting D_V, which include, as far as I can tell, the following:
Niv, kpaca, Skander, Cyan, Jobie, and Ged.
Why so worried about neutrals so early?
...which postings and responses, and why exactly? Because I don't see too many replies from him in between your argument with Niv and now.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Also, I don't recall very many people voting Cyan at all. Except Niv, and he unvoted/voted DV in the same post.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Thanks.
:facepalm::facepalm:
Do like. Why haven't you been killed yet?
Also, I'm not dead? You make me sad, dear DV.
So, DV is jester?
now then, from what I'm reading into my role, I might be able to help solve a couple dilemmas, but I'll need some help and time. In the meantime:
Vote DV
How someone can be this scummy this early is beyond me...I'm not sure if I was worse than this in code geass but it's probably up there.
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It was to make sure we don't accidentally speed lynch. I noticed you did it a couple posts before Ced posted a vote count, so I don't get why you're confused by me doing that.
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I'm pretty sure he was just asking AI's opinions on the people on the wagon, not trying to stop a speed-lynch.
Also, in one of your previous posts I think you misread DV. I'm not sure what the exact wording was, but basically you attacked him for saying that he had never been in a game with Cyan when he had, but really he said that he was in a game in Cyan (I'm probably not making much sense but basically just go back and read that post against DV and you'll see what I'm talking about).
There's not much content here despite there being 8 pages for you to comment on.
What specifically is your opinion on DV?
Are you going to ignore all the Massive tells DVs been spewing?
What the hell does this post even contribute to the game, mabye you could include some opponions, a vote, something helpful. also, you should really go to 40PPP
Hmm, not even gonna provide some insight here, which posts barther you. all i know is that your going with the current wagon (abet a good one). not what you found scummy (unlees you found everything scummy).
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1) bilbroxain's self-description sounded like he was hiding information.
2) the 'for some reason' was to indicate that i didn't have a logical reason, just a gut feeling that killing cyan was a-ok.
i'm not feeling good about the DV wagon. i'm not seeing what's so different about his play this time from every other time he's spewed a lot of nonsense.
Yes. I did find everything he's said to just be terribly scummy, to the point he might as well broadcast it to the rest of the world.
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So your giving someone a pass beacuse you say that they "Spew Nonsence" Everytime they play? I'm pretty sure that regardless as well, this is Scummy Nonsence.
interesting. FoS Charm Master.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Please clarify you're first two sentences. The second one in particular makes no grammatical sense.
1. Why are you against Cyan being daykilled when he asks for it?
Well, I am no longer against it mostly because I agree with what Kpaca wrote. A dead scum is a dead scum and a townie that wants to be dead for an ability is also very good. That being said I heavily stress that I want Bilb to wait until the majority of the town agrees that killing Cyan is a good idea.(I am treating bilb like I would any other vig.)
2. Do you believe Cyan is scum/neutral?
I don't, I was just throwing reasons out for why we might not want to kill Cyan straight up.
3. Pursuant to the above, why do you think Cyan is 'wrong' about you?
Because my role pm says that I win with the town. But in all seriousness I feel like Cyan always does this he goes after people and everyone band wagons who Cyan thinks is scum, and in reality I haven't seen him be right more than once or twice. But because he is Cyan the great god of mafia everyone else seems to follow him.(I also feel that he is mad about the last game where I convinced him I was town. And I used his kills against the town.)
O yeah and,
UnvoteVote Charm_master Vote Charm_master
If I am so scummy than don't you want to lynch me anyways?
In the first you say that you support killing Cyan, but want to slow down and hear everyone's opinions first.
In the second you attack Jobie for thinking you are so scummy but wanting to slow down and not speed lynch you (I am aware of why Jobie wants to do this since it is the same reason I do, but I am interested in why you are attacking him for basically proposing the same thing that you are, but on a different player).
i'm not giving him a pass, but i am giving him a bit more leeway. he's an easy target, also, so i'm eyeing the people who attack him with a little more skepticism too.
I was drunk last night sorry..... Lol. And since when have you ever been a critic of me?
I'm not trying to offend you. I'm just saying that I've been in several games with you and I recall you playing bad in them.
Deaths_Vampire -7- Cyan, Ged, Jobie, kpaca, Skander, Niv, Charm_Master
Cyan -1- Wrath_of_Dog
AlphaInsidious -1- creampuffeater
Charm_Master -3- Help I'm A Bug, Deaths_Vampire, Deaths_Vampire
Those Still Breathing:
1. Kpaca
2. Ged
3. Niv
4. Shadow Knight
5. Charm_Master
6. Cyan
7. Skander
8. Help I'm A Bug
9. DesCoures
10. Wrath_of_dog
11. Guardman
12. AlphaInsidious
13. Archmage Eternal
14. Ace
15. Seppel.
16. Jobie
17. Creampuffeater
18. Infinis
19. Zionite
20. Some One
21. Death's Vampire
Those With Us In Spirit:
22. Bilbroxain - Mayor Harold Jones
EDIT: With 21 Alive, it is 11 to lynch.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I am not offended I just can't recall any game that you have ever attacked me ever. Especially I can't recall you ever saying that I play badly before.
Tales of Fantastic I think. Or Crackhouse. It was a while ago though like 4 or 5 months ago.
Honestly, DV strikes me in the same manner tilde usually does; totally unhelpful and even detrimental to the town for the sake of garnering attention. It's not good game theory, and it's not doing anyone any favors.
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i thought you said he struck you as scummy.
Because a lurker like you can talk that does nothing what so ever. Have you ever done anything other than lurk in any game that I have played with you?(Skander didn't offend me you have.)
Ongoing game. Not much else to say regarding this.
What do you mean by this? I am in no ongoing games. My other game hasn't started yet. And if you are talking about Cubus's game I barley played in that game.
I'm beginning to have second doubts about DV, but this has nothing to do with it. Why can't a scum be a doublevoter? This just strikes me as you know DV is town and want to be on the right side of his lynch.
OK. If it was put up this game, I would never let go of you :).
Speaking of Seppel, where is he?
Yes, Cubus. You used to be in it. As I said it's ongoing though.