But he didn't know anything was up, and so thought it would be safe to claim.
And then, beyond that, he flatly admits to what most people are going to read as 'you walked into a trap as scum'.
It's not like he can deny it...
Maybe you guys were never newb scum, or haven't played with many. I was scum as a newb repeatedly, and have been in games where others were newb scum. What lrd did here is not something that newb scum do.
DV, on the other hand, tried to come out looking like aces by defending lrd and proclaiming to be Bilbo Baggins at the same time, then immediately bailed on it all.
I am fairly familiar with how DV plays as town. In my estimation, this is not it.
Something about that last bit seems painfully familiar.
I don't know. I can easily see him as scum being scared into claiming for fear of the unknown.
@ Calvin No I was never saying that Bilbo was neutral. I was saying that I could think of a possible neutral hobbit. Then I just claimed Bilbo for kicks and giggles. The two are completely separate.
Moreover, if lrd is scum, I believe there is a high probability of there being more scum among the group of people who took his defence. Some of them make more sense as scum defending scum than as town defending unknown. (Asian, Cyan)
Or scum defending town. Any way you cut it I don't like how DV has been handling lrd.
I do believe that he is Bilbo Baggins. But what he was trying to do was "Oh crap, I claimed when there was no need and now, I am trying to WIFOM to get myself out of my claim.
So, my vote still stays.
I don't know - I see the benefit as a ploy to get lrd out of trouble but why claim your scum role and then back out of it?
Claim time now - I lied earlier.I am a neutral survivor, with shields with a 50% success rate (not one night up, one night down, just 50% chance of working each night)
My real flavour is the same as my original one, just with a bit about how I'm missing the Shire and The Green Dragon etc, and so want to get home, in whatever way possible, and get away from everyone around me - both heroes and villains, but it didn't specifically state which side was which.
The reason I claimed was because I hadn't fully grasped the flavour, and I thought it would help me suck up to the town. Apparently not.
Hmmm. I don't like how this only comes after multiple say that Pippin sounds more like a neutral from what you said. This feels like a last ditch attempt as you see your claim of town isn't working. I'm not 100% convinced though, as I like the reasoning someone gave for you being more likely to make the flavour mistake as neutral than as town. I'm leaning toward you being scum although you could be an anti-town neutral or maybe as you claim, a neutral survivor. I think the other two are much more likely than the third and in all scenarios you should die as even as a neutral survivor at some point you will turn against us.
Also you didn't provide any flavor for the 50% chance. I think that was just thrown in there to deter vigging.
I'm not sure what the point of your first question is in relation to my original post (since that was about lrd), but if the "got it now" encompasses both then that's good, if not then I have no idea, maybe he screwed up and is trying to recover. I think he's telling the truth though, at this point.
It is when you give away the trap.
Oops. I'm not sure what your post is doing there. My comments were directed at Yodavader. Sorry.
I'm a touch surprised that people don't actually seem to know how a neutral survivor works (at least how I've read it). Scum don't kill him, because he's a scum vote when the town is in lylo. Functionally, he's a townie until it actually matters. If we're just amazing and nail scum every single day, it'll never be relevant, which is nice, but we make mistakes, lrd's existence is going to become increasingly dangerous, at which point we're really not going to want to spare the lynch, and if he's not lying about his NK half-immunity, vigging him becomes very dangerous.
The other likelihood is that he's lying about the half immunity, as it both decreases his chances of being lynched (you can still vig him) or vigged (1-shots aren't going to want to waste a shot, if we don't have a recurring vig, he's probably not dead, motivates scum not to kill him). Whether he's crafty enough to be deliberate about such a claim I dunno, but it's rather elegant as far as avoiding death, whether that's design or falseclaim.
And this all is assuming he's actually a neutral survivor, which is one of the most claimed roles as scum ever.
IMHO, at best he's falseclaiming scum (of which I would think that there's a higher than random chance), and at worst he's a potentially dangerous neutral. He should be dead.
1)I never said I was town, more implied it softly. I did this because I thought I would have a better chance of surviving if you thought I was town. When I realised this wasn't the case, I decided to tell the truth.
2)There wasn't too much in the way of flavour. It basically said that every night I try to find a corner of the mines to hide in, but it will only work half the time.
Ok, so now we get flavour. Not all that convinced but it's not a huge deal either way.
@ Yodo You are an idiot if you think that I would claim this.
Just an over sight, this game has made me decide that I probably never want to play a game like this again. I have never seen people jump up and down over the dumbest of things and think that they have caught scum on post like 50 or so. I really fail to see how I would make a mistake and claim hobbit when it is said expressly everywhere that the mafia are on the side of good. Seriously. Frankly I am offended.
Yes, of course, you're right. Since you clearly knew that hobbits were on the side of good and still claimed it, you must be town. In that case, I claim Frodo the hobbit and since I know that hobbits must be scum and am still claiming this, I must be town.
I already explained why I think you're scum. Every post you make only makes you look more scummy. Especially when first you tried to say 'Oh you only played a couple of games with me as town, it doesn't count', and then when that exampled is completely obliterated, instead you say 'Oh well you're not right all of the time'.
And Tales is a terrible example, because it was the first game I'd played with you. You bluffed me there. Congrats. I haven't been wrong on you since, including correctly naming you as scum.
You are just flailing miserably now.
The other thing is with this. So, you play one game with me when I am scum? And then you make an infallible opinion? This just is ridiculous. Just as ridiculous for players to think that Lrd got trapped. OR that I "claimed" because I saw the post. You know what Cyan I want to be lynched now just so I can laugh in your face when you see me show up town. Then you can't use this BS argument that you "know" how I play. You don't have a clue how I play. Seppel thinks he knows how I play but he really has only scratched the tip of the surface of how I decide how to play.
@ Lrd I jumped on Cyan because he took the bait like instantly. And when Cyan is in Blitzkrieg mode I like to stop him, because all Blitzkrieg does is get noob towns lynched. Plus it was such a scummy post I couldn't ignore it.
Just for kicks and giggles.
DV's Scum list
jerubbaal
SO
Unvote
Cyan is just being his stupid Blitzkrieg town self. And I don't think he knows that it ticks people off. I remember Crop Circles suicided because he got so mad at Cyan. I won't do that, but I am tempted too.
Yes, of course, you're right. Since you clearly knew that hobbits were on the side of good and still claimed it, you must be town. In that case, I claim Frodo the hobbit and since I know that hobbits must be scum and am still claiming this, I must be town.
I was just claiming Bilbo to point out how ridiculous voting Lrd was. People didn't get it though....
Quote from Neutral »
That wasn't addressed to you. Or was it, Mr Neutral Survivor?
Naw, I wish. Then I would just suicide.
Just a side note, the person I was thinking of that could be on the scums team or some sort of Neutral(I never said survivor) was Golem.
The other thing is with this. So, you play one game with me when I am scum? And then you make an infallible opinion? This just is ridiculous. Just as ridiculous for players to think that Lrd got trapped. OR that I "claimed" because I saw the post. You know what Cyan I want to be lynched now just so I can laugh in your face when you see me show up town. Then you can't use this BS argument that you "know" how I play. You don't have a clue how I play. Seppel thinks he knows how I play but he really has only scratched the tip of the surface of how I decide how to play.
@ Lrd I jumped on Cyan because he took the bait like instantly. And when Cyan is in Blitzkrieg mode I like to stop him, because all Blitzkrieg does is get noob towns lynched. Plus it was such a scummy post I couldn't ignore it.
Just for kicks and giggles.
DV's Scum list
jerubbaal
SO
Unvote
Cyan is just being his stupid Blitzkrieg town self. And I don't think he knows that it ticks people off. I remember Crop Circles suicided because he got so mad at Cyan. I won't do that, but I am tempted too.
Huh. I'm reading this frusturation as very genuine. But that could just as easily be caught scum that thinks they don't deserve to have been caught. One thing I'm pretty confident about though is that Cyan and DV are not of the same alignment.
I was going to let it go, but this is the second time someone has said this. What did I do to give anyone the impression that I am unreasonable?
Also Calvin is it necessary to make all of your posts so long?
Wow I said scums team there. I meant the scum as in the evil side. Not as in the mafia. Sorry for the non specific. Then again he might be on goods side as in the mafia. So I guess I could see Gollum on any side.
I just have a hard time flavor wise imagining Gollum mass murdering Goblins and Trolls since that would be the majority of the players this time around.
I just have a hard time flavor wise imagining Gollum mass murdering Goblins and Trolls since that would be the majority of the players this time around.
If I had a dollar for every scum that made the exact same post that you just made, DV, I'd have alot of dollars.
Wow, Cyan. You must play a lot of games involve Gollum mass murdering Goblins and Trolls. Where can I read these?
On a more serious note, until either kpaca shoots lrd or says he can't, most of the posting going on is just posing. Hopefully kpaca shows up sooner rather than later.
DV, I'm pretty sure Fleet is the only game I've ever thought you were scum in. And..I was right. In other games that we played in together, I thought you were town. And I was right in most of those too. Except for Tales, which was the first game where we played together, and where I figured you had to be town because only a complete and absolute idiot would do what you did as scum. Guess I just didn't know better.
Your questions are comical. They do nothing to help you, scum.
You didn't answer the second question learn to read.
Kpaca Please Daykill me I am scum and I deserve to die.
And to help along with my lynch Unvote Vote DV
Cyan you are so wrong it hurts. I guess I just need to die to teach this lesson to you. Maybe you won't be such an ass to me next time and think about things before deciding you understand my play style.
Erm, the point of this game is to find scum. If you're going to go all emo rage every time someone accuses you, play a different game. If you can't get over yourself, honestly, just replace out.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Erm, the point of this game is to find scum. If you're going to go all emo rage every time someone accuses you, play a different game. If you can't get over yourself, honestly, just replace out.
I have been playing this game for almost 2 years... On this forum alone. Go and do some reading.
Kpaca I know you were reading the forum and are on right now.... So you should post. You had time to post in your other mafia game yesterday. Even just a Hi bye post is good enough for me.
Kpaca I know you were reading the forum and are on right now.... So you should post. You had time to post in your other mafia game yesterday. Even just a Hi bye post is good enough for me.
Worry about yourself.
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I would ask that you stick with the program and shoot lrd before you worry about DV. I have a policy of not giving people what they want in these situations. He's either emo-raging or he has a trick, and neither is a situation to shoot into.
lrd is still the best candidate for scum at this point. My only reason for forbearing is that if he is really Pippin, his role interacts with mine, but considering we think he's scum already it's not an interaction that would really matter much.
I would ask that you stick with the program and shoot lrd before you worry about DV. I have a policy of not giving people what they want in these situations. He's either emo-raging or he has a trick, and neither is a situation to shoot into.
I agree with this post here.
Shooting DV won't help us out much since he will probably get the lynch today. Taking out a neutral, as stated before, is better at this stage of the game since we don't know exactly how they are going to act later on in the game. And personally, I don't like neutrals anyways. I've had bad luck where most of the neutrals in games I have played in were either SK or cult. So, neutrals just rub me the wrong way.
I don't like the cost vs. benefit here. If we assume that DV believed lrd to be town and DV is scum, DV sticking out his neck by claiming a Hobbit to protect a townie seems suicidal. After all, if DV dies, he can't cash in those townie points.
If you're assuming DV is indeed scum and believed lrd to be town, then his purpose is to look like town when lrd turned up town. You also made the assumption DV will die because of it.
I don't think Cyan answered any of these questions. He just said, "No, I didn't." "Oh wait, yeah I did."
No one else actually cared he didn't answer said questions. There was no pressure on his part to respond apparently due to the lackluster reactions of the town. I assume I'll need a better read to hammer in my suspicions or disprove my own beliefs.
Assuming your claim is valid, you stand a decent chance of making it to the endgame simply because the scum won't want to risk a NK on a 50% success rate.
He won't. Claiming neutral is basically suicide this early in the game.
Huh. I'm reading this frusturation as very genuine. But that could just as easily be caught scum that thinks they don't deserve to have been caught. One thing I'm pretty confident about though is that Cyan and DV are not of the same alignment.
You didn't answer the second question learn to read.
Kpaca Please Daykill me I am scum and I deserve to die.
And to help along with my lynch Unvote Vote DV
Cyan you are so wrong it hurts. I guess I just need to die to teach this lesson to you. Maybe you won't be such an ass to me next time and think about things before deciding you understand my play style.
I don't understand why you are focused so much on Cyan. I don't really think you are scum, but I do think you're milking this for all it's worth, and it speaks badly of you.
The bold bit is total BS, and where I felt I strongly implied I was town.
Umm, no. You always implied you're not scum but refused to answer a direct question about whether you're town. That meant you're strongly implying that you're neutral.
You must have missed this.
My point is that Axlerod said up front that he was not going to stick to closely to the source material, so any kind of speculation based on what happened in the books is probably of limited usefulness at best.
You must have missed this.
My point is that Axlerod said up front that he was not going to stick to closely to the source material, so any kind of speculation based on what happened in the books is probably of limited usefulness at best.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Rofl, Drunk posting is sweet. I always post well when I am drunk.
You know I don't even understand why my character is in the Mines of Moria. I am just saying this because well it doesn't even matter I am dead no matter what I do. The mafia kill me tonight when I claim or the town lynches me.
@ Dagger I did this similar thing with Cyan. Honestly the arguments that are basically because I say so really tick me off. Anyways I think Cyan is town too, the amazing thing is that we have SOOO much scummy behavior from people like Jerubbaal and people are just ignoring it. The other thing that ticks me off is to think that I would claim this early into the game. Cyan is just milking the fact that most players have never played with me. Not my fault I don't play basics...
Scum won't NK him because he's not town. He'll work with whoever is more likely to win; we have no garuntee he's going to play like a townie if he can win by rushlynching someone with scum.
Wow, I must not have been paying attention. That makes perfect sense. I can see why he's dangerous for the town to keep around. lrd definitely needs to die today.
I agree with this post completely. We either lynch him now or later, and later, roles like the doc might be dead. If we do it now, at least we have a chance of random role-based blocks and we're going to have to get rid of him either way - the difference between there being X scum and X-1 scum is negligible, assuming we end up lynching an actual scum.
Unvote, vote lrd
What? How is the difference between "X scum and X-1 scum" negligible? The fewer scum, the better. The whole point is to kill all of them, remember? Or is that not part of your win con?
DV pseudo-claimed lover/sibling with lrd IIRC. Not that it should make any difference, considering neither of them is (acting like a) townie.
Are you sure? To me it just seemed that DV was saying that the arguments for lynching lrd based solely on race are illogical, which makes some sense. I never saw any kind of message indicating that they are lovers or siblings.
If you're assuming DV is indeed scum and believed lrd to be town, then his purpose is to look like town when lrd turned up town. You also made the assumption DV will die because of it.
DV might very well die because of it. He's certainly making a spectacle of himself.
No one else actually cared he didn't answer said questions. There was no pressure on his part to respond apparently due to the lackluster reactions of the town.
...which is suspicious in and of itself. The way Cyan poked and prodded DV into a frenzy while keeping himself squeaky-clean disturbs me.
You know I don't even understand why my character is in the Mines of Moria. I am just saying this because well it doesn't even matter I am dead no matter what I do. The mafia kill me tonight when I claim or the town lynches me.
@ Dagger I did this similar thing with Cyan. Honestly the arguments that are basically because I say so really tick me off. Anyways I think Cyan is town too, the amazing thing is that we have SOOO much scummy behavior from people like Jerubbaal and people are just ignoring it. The other thing that ticks me off is to think that I would claim this early into the game. Cyan is just milking the fact that most players have never played with me. Not my fault I don't play basics...
1. It's just a game. Chill out or replace out.
2. You should describe this "scummy behavior from people like Jerubbaal."
3. Don't blame newer players for your lack of emotional maturity.
Unless it's on Cyan. If that's the case, fire away.
He is against the DK and the Cyan thing is still part of the random stage... I think.
Quote from Jer »
Amused, and slightly confused.
lrd doesn't read like scum at all, and I think he's at least nominally intelligent, so I think he can be fairly safely ignored.
DV, on the other hand, smells like aborted gambit.
Unvote, Vote: DV
Ok this is where it gets interesting, he completely barns Cyan and a couple of other players. A couple of players say I think DV just had a failed gambit. He then uses that as his only piece of voting evidence but instead of just saying I agree with Cyan and Blah Blah, he just posts it as his own ideas again.
The Lrd thing in this post is weird to me. Ok, so, he thinks Lrd is smart.... But I fail to see how this would make Lrd "safe" to ignore. It feels like he is trying to divert attention to me. I mean he basically just called me an idiot and said that we can attack DV because he isn't nominally intelligent.
So, here he raises to points on me an adhom attack and a complete barn.
Quote from Jer »
Erm, I take back the comment about being nominally intelligent.
I personally see no real way out of this without a full claim at this point, so sooner is probably better than later, so we can get on with finding scum.
AI does sound nervous, and is blaming it on external factors, which I like very little.
And Cyan's right about DV doing the whole "I'm not that dumb" thing.
So yeah. I like the amount of legitimate wagons we have running at this point. DV's is still the strongest, and lrd probably does need to claim.
Here Jer realizes that ignoring someone because they are "intelligent" is a bad move. Then he says Lrd should claim, so we can ignore him. Basically Lrd is town and I know it when he claims.... Seems like inside information to me.
He then places blame on Asian.... For basically no reason at all. And when he is doing this he is just agreeing with another poster.... Because he says AI DOES sound nervous.
Then he agrees with Cyan and says Cyan is right.... Then he says we have a lot of legitimate wagons running. Which doesn't make any sense at all, because the only TWO wagons running were mine and Lrd's. And he has said that he thinks/knows when Lrd claims that he will be town. So, we really only have one "legitimate wagon" running. I just don't get this at all.
Quote from Jer »
I'm a touch surprised that people don't actually seem to know how a neutral survivor works (at least how I've read it). Scum don't kill him, because he's a scum vote when the town is in lylo. Functionally, he's a townie until it actually matters. If we're just amazing and nail scum every single day, it'll never be relevant, which is nice, but we make mistakes, lrd's existence is going to become increasingly dangerous, at which point we're really not going to want to spare the lynch, and if he's not lying about his NK half-immunity, vigging him becomes very dangerous.
The other likelihood is that he's lying about the half immunity, as it both decreases his chances of being lynched (you can still vig him) or vigged (1-shots aren't going to want to waste a shot, if we don't have a recurring vig, he's probably not dead, motivates scum not to kill him). Whether he's crafty enough to be deliberate about such a claim I dunno, but it's rather elegant as far as avoiding death, whether that's design or falseclaim.
And this all is assuming he's actually a neutral survivor, which is one of the most claimed roles as scum ever.
IMHO, at best he's falseclaiming scum (of which I would think that there's a higher than random chance), and at worst he's a potentially dangerous neutral. He should be dead.
Unvote, Vote: lrd
Then Jer votes Lrd because he thinks he claimed neutral survivor. Which he didn't by the way he claimed to win with the town. Then he says that the mafia won't kill neutral survivors and that they only become detrimental in the late game. He also says he has never played with neutral survivors before.
He then says that he is either falseclaiming or he is potentially dangerous later in the game.
Which is funny because he was so sure Lrd was going to come up town. This just reads to me "I am scum, I know you are not on my team so you must be town. O noes I forgot about neutrals, because I have never played with them before. But the are anti town, so I should vote them to appear town."
Quote from Jer »
If we make mistakes
This was an add on by Jer to his post. So, that his post would say detrimental to the town if we make mistakes. Notice the We part here. Like he is trying to integrate himself into our minds with the word town. I purposefully try to use the word town when talking about town actions.
Quote from Jer »
FTR, if we have a dayvig, I'm totally down with using it.
Wasn't he against the DK on like the second post? Yeah he was.... Mmmm, maybe Jer is ok with using it because it won't be used on any of him or his scum buddies?
Quote from Jer »
Erm, the point of this game is to find scum. If you're going to go all emo rage every time someone accuses you, play a different game. If you can't get over yourself, honestly, just replace out.
Some patronizing noob stuff. Like I just don't even want to talk about this. I have more games under my belt than a bunch of you combined. Cyan and alcohol are just a bad mix always.
Claim time now - I lied earlier.I am a neutral survivor, with shields with a 50% success rate (not one night up, one night down, just 50% chance of working each night)
My real flavour is the same as my original one, just with a bit about how I'm missing the Shire and The Green Dragon etc, and so want to get home, in whatever way possible, and get away from everyone around me - both heroes and villains, but it didn't specifically state which side was which
Wow...... DV hides in a corner...... I read his first one where he kind of implied he was town. But I got so focused on Cyan I totally missed that. Dangit.
Rofl, Drunk posting is sweet. I always post well when I am drunk.
You know I don't even understand why my character is in the Mines of Moria. I am just saying this because well it doesn't even matter I am dead no matter what I do. The mafia kill me tonight when I claim or the town lynches me.
@ Dagger I did this similar thing with Cyan. Honestly the arguments that are basically because I say so really tick me off. Anyways I think Cyan is town too, the amazing thing is that we have SOOO much scummy behavior from people like Jerubbaal and people are just ignoring it. The other thing that ticks me off is to think that I would claim this early into the game. Cyan is just milking the fact that most players have never played with me. Not my fault I don't play basics...
This is just dumb, you get done with your little temper tantrum, blame it on drunk posting, and hope everyone forgives your sorry little ***. Yeah, sure, I bet you were drunk.
Your PBPA is potentially the biggest joke I have seen in a long time. Saying "DV smells like an aborted gambit" is suddenly an adhom attack? Do you even understand what the term means? You deserve to be called an idiot, but I very definitely was not doing that at that point. You cite all this experience, and it's possibly true, but experience is not a substitute for intelligence.
Your only semi-real point is that I barn Cyan, which I did, because I liked his points. Try barning good ideas sometime, it's a better strategy than making up bad ones on your own.
Lrd I read as town, then he claimed neutral, which obviously changes everything. Reading the thread is pro.
The entire rest of your PBPA is dependent on the fact that your genius self didn't realize that lrd actually claimed because of your idiotic ego clash with Cyan, who didn't even do anything near the level of his usual asinine self. If you're only here for the pissing contest, please get out, or at least start thinking. Or just get lynched, I could live with that as well.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Your PBPA is potentially the biggest joke I have seen in a long time. Saying "DV smells like an aborted gambit" is suddenly an adhom attack? Do you even understand what the term means? You deserve to be called an idiot, but I very definitely was not doing that at that point. You cite all this experience, and it's possibly true, but experience is not a substitute for intelligence.
No you did. You said that Lrd had intelligence. Which would mean that I didn't. Simple 2+2=4 really.
And my experience might be "possibly true"? What the heck is that it is go look if you don't believe me.
Quote from Jer »
This is just dumb, you get done with your little temper tantrum, blame it on drunk posting, and hope everyone forgives your sorry little ***. Yeah, sure, I bet you were drunk.
No I was considering doing this anyways. I just do stuff that I find to be a little extreme when I get drunk, I might have still done this sober anyways.
Quote from Jer »
Your only semi-real point is that I barn Cyan, which I did, because I liked his points. Try barning good ideas sometime, it's a better strategy than making up bad ones on your own.
No it isn't it shows only that you can't think for yourself and that you are no better than a sheep being lead by a shepherd. You also ignore the fact where you change your opinion about DK's why was that? You never explained.
@ Jer I am a nice guy and it is really hard to offend me, but you are getting close.
DV, you are now going to be ignored by me again, ala Kithkin. I suggest anything you want to say to me be directed at someone else so that they can ask me.
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I'm on my iPod cause my computer has a virus so I can't quote but in response to AI about the x-1 thing, night actions probably aren't going to be much different with one extra scum, they don't get an extra kill per night or anything. It's hard to explain but if we lynch lrd now tomorrows night actions probably aren't going to be much different than if we manage to lynch scum. I don't know how long this virus will last but I'm in safe mode scanning atm so it shouldn't be too bad
Okay everyone, please remember this is a GAME. Refrain from personal attacks. I don't care how bad you think someone's argument or post is - criticize the post, not the poster.
And, you know, it's even possible to criticize the post in a polite way. It's actually easy.
So, everyone please just get along. Or something.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
My comment about lrd being reasonably intelligent had absolutely no bearing on you. The situation was completely different: he was claiming "seriously," and you were saying that your claim was bunk. If you applied it to yourself, that's just narcissism.
I changed about the DK because there's a target who has to die anyway, no reason not to use the daykill. I was opposed to using it randomly, as seems to be the pattern for game openings lately.
Anyway, the fact that kpaca has checked in and lrd isn't dead means that we should just get on with the lynch.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Is kpaca just being difficult, or was he lying about his vig?
i don't particularly like either answer, so until he explains himself at least: Unvote: Deaths_Vampire; Vote: kpaca
I was going to let it go, but this is the second time someone has said this. What did I do to give anyone the impression that I am unreasonable?
Well, I directly copy + pasted Cyan's original post against you just for laughs but the sentiment is the same. You said something that didn't really need saying as it is self-apparent and the only point of saying it is to make you look like a good townie.
Also Calvin is it necessary to make all of your posts so long?
Pretty much, yeah. There are lots of things that catch my interest and I'd like to respond to each one. I hope you aren't tl'dring though, since half of each post is just the quotes.
You didn't answer the second question learn to read.
Kpaca Please Daykill me I am scum and I deserve to die.
And to help along with my lynch Unvote Vote DV
Cyan you are so wrong it hurts. I guess I just need to die to teach this lesson to you. Maybe you won't be such an ass to me next time and think about things before deciding you understand my play style.
Query: If you are really town, and Cyan is town do you really think this will change his playstyle? From what you've said yourself, he's already caused a player to suicide and it hasn't changed his playstyle.
[font=georgia][font=georgia]
DV pseudo-claimed lover/sibling with lrd IIRC. Not that it should make any difference, considering neither of them is (acting like a) townie.[/font][/font]
I thought of that and it's possible but I don't see it as likely. They've both had their scummy moments (DV more so) and I'd be surprised if none of them are scum. I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy between them though.
DV doesn't look particularly fantastic from where I'm standing.
Bah. Not sure how to phrase this properly but this line doesn't make any sense. Basically, since he's found to be scummy you're saying he couldn't have been trying to gain townie points? Or about he was trying to gain townie points but just failed. You can't just look at the result, you have to look at the intention.
Nothing great and there's some really bad points in here.
.
He then places blame on Asian.... For basically no reason at all. And when he is doing this he is just agreeing with another poster.... Because he says AI DOES sound nervous.
Then he agrees with Cyan and says Cyan is right.... Then he says we have a lot of legitimate wagons running. Which doesn't make any sense at all, because the only TWO wagons running were mine and Lrd's. And he has said that he thinks/knows when Lrd claims that he will be town. So, we really only have one "legitimate wagon" running. I just don't get this at all.
You yourself just mentioned Asian. There was vocal opinion that Asian was scummy - there's your multiple wagons.
This was an add on by Jer to his post. So, that his post would say detrimental to the town if we make mistakes. Notice the We part here. Like he is trying to integrate himself into our minds with the word town. I purposefully try to use the word town when talking about town actions.
All the add-on did was add the word "if", as far as I can see.
Wasn't he against the DK on like the second post? Yeah he was.... Mmmm, maybe Jer is ok with using it because it won't be used on any of him or his scum buddies?
Or maybe (as he later says but which is pretty obvious) he doesn't want to shoot a random person which will likely result in a dead townie but would like to shoot a scummy claimed-neutral survivor?
DV, you are now going to be ignored by me again, ala Kithkin. I suggest anything you want to say to me be directed at someone else so that they can ask me.
...and I'll take this as double-confirmation that there's no daykill coming.
[font=georgia][font=georgia]
Basically, yes. There was no purpose in posting that roll of your eyes unless you were coaching him, or you were confident he was town. Regardless of his alignment, both of these possibilities paint you as scum.
There's a third possibility where you simply posted without thinking. I don't get that kind of feeling from the posts in question.
Yes, this is the feeling I got from that ':rolleyes:'. More so that he was coaching though, not so much that he was sure it wouldn't work so for me it's more of an issue if lrd flips scum.
#176, combined with how much the idea of vigging lrd puts him in distress.
DV has admitted that the linked post was a mistake because he did not realize that lrd had claimed neutral survivor.
Okay everyone, please remember this is a GAME. Refrain from personal attacks. I don't care how bad you think someone's argument or post is - criticize the post, not the poster.
And, you know, it's even possible to criticize the post in a polite way. It's actually easy.
But he didn't know anything was up, and so thought it would be safe to claim.
It's not like he can deny it...
I don't know. I can easily see him as scum being scared into claiming for fear of the unknown.
OK. Entirely missed that.
Cyan puts it nicely:
Or scum defending town. Any way you cut it I don't like how DV has been handling lrd.
I don't know - I see the benefit as a ploy to get lrd out of trouble but why claim your scum role and then back out of it?
Hmmm. I don't like how this only comes after multiple say that Pippin sounds more like a neutral from what you said. This feels like a last ditch attempt as you see your claim of town isn't working. I'm not 100% convinced though, as I like the reasoning someone gave for you being more likely to make the flavour mistake as neutral than as town. I'm leaning toward you being scum although you could be an anti-town neutral or maybe as you claim, a neutral survivor. I think the other two are much more likely than the third and in all scenarios you should die as even as a neutral survivor at some point you will turn against us.
Also you didn't provide any flavor for the 50% chance. I think that was just thrown in there to deter vigging.
Hmm.
I think this post is like..too reasonable.
Oops. I'm not sure what your post is doing there. My comments were directed at Yodavader. Sorry.
/barn.
Ok, so now we get flavour. Not all that convinced but it's not a huge deal either way.
Ah, forgot about that. I'm not sure if he actually has one but if he does that would be great.
Yes, of course, you're right. Since you clearly knew that hobbits were on the side of good and still claimed it, you must be town. In that case, I claim Frodo the hobbit and since I know that hobbits must be scum and am still claiming this, I must be town.
That wasn't addressed to you. Or was it, Mr Neutral Survivor?
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win
The other thing is with this. So, you play one game with me when I am scum? And then you make an infallible opinion? This just is ridiculous. Just as ridiculous for players to think that Lrd got trapped. OR that I "claimed" because I saw the post. You know what Cyan I want to be lynched now just so I can laugh in your face when you see me show up town. Then you can't use this BS argument that you "know" how I play. You don't have a clue how I play. Seppel thinks he knows how I play but he really has only scratched the tip of the surface of how I decide how to play.
@ Lrd I jumped on Cyan because he took the bait like instantly. And when Cyan is in Blitzkrieg mode I like to stop him, because all Blitzkrieg does is get noob towns lynched. Plus it was such a scummy post I couldn't ignore it.
Just for kicks and giggles.
DV's Scum list
jerubbaal
SO
Unvote
Cyan is just being his stupid Blitzkrieg town self. And I don't think he knows that it ticks people off. I remember Crop Circles suicided because he got so mad at Cyan. I won't do that, but I am tempted too.
I was just claiming Bilbo to point out how ridiculous voting Lrd was. People didn't get it though....
Naw, I wish. Then I would just suicide.
Just a side note, the person I was thinking of that could be on the scums team or some sort of Neutral(I never said survivor) was Golem.
And I forgot to revote. Vote Jerubbaal
Huh. I'm reading this frusturation as very genuine. But that could just as easily be caught scum that thinks they don't deserve to have been caught. One thing I'm pretty confident about though is that Cyan and DV are not of the same alignment.
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win
I was going to let it go, but this is the second time someone has said this. What did I do to give anyone the impression that I am unreasonable?
Also Calvin is it necessary to make all of your posts so long?
Gollum is who I was thinking of too.
smoke_Killah
Gollum was already used as SK last game, I don't know if he would use him again.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=11425
Vote stays on lrd for now.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I just have a hard time flavor wise imagining Gollum mass murdering Goblins and Trolls since that would be the majority of the players this time around.
Wow, Cyan. You must play a lot of games involve Gollum mass murdering Goblins and Trolls. Where can I read these?
On a more serious note, until either kpaca shoots lrd or says he can't, most of the posting going on is just posing. Hopefully kpaca shows up sooner rather than later.
Lol I agree. Sometimes Cyan is so full of it, it comes out of his ears.
RafaelK was being facetious and knew/figured out what I was referring to, in case that wasn't totally obvious to you.
After Lrd is dead, I think that the next most scummy person is asian. His posts just do not seem genuine.
Your questions are comical. They do nothing to help you, scum.
Kpaca Please Daykill me I am scum and I deserve to die.
And to help along with my lynch Unvote Vote DV
Cyan you are so wrong it hurts. I guess I just need to die to teach this lesson to you. Maybe you won't be such an ass to me next time and think about things before deciding you understand my play style.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I have been playing this game for almost 2 years... On this forum alone. Go and do some reading.
Worry about yourself.
I would ask that you stick with the program and shoot lrd before you worry about DV. I have a policy of not giving people what they want in these situations. He's either emo-raging or he has a trick, and neither is a situation to shoot into.
lrd is still the best candidate for scum at this point. My only reason for forbearing is that if he is really Pippin, his role interacts with mine, but considering we think he's scum already it's not an interaction that would really matter much.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I agree with this post here.
Shooting DV won't help us out much since he will probably get the lynch today. Taking out a neutral, as stated before, is better at this stage of the game since we don't know exactly how they are going to act later on in the game. And personally, I don't like neutrals anyways. I've had bad luck where most of the neutrals in games I have played in were either SK or cult. So, neutrals just rub me the wrong way.
If you're assuming DV is indeed scum and believed lrd to be town, then his purpose is to look like town when lrd turned up town. You also made the assumption DV will die because of it.
No one else actually cared he didn't answer said questions. There was no pressure on his part to respond apparently due to the lackluster reactions of the town. I assume I'll need a better read to hammer in my suspicions or disprove my own beliefs.
He won't. Claiming neutral is basically suicide this early in the game.
The best way for scums to gain "clearance" is via their roles, fyi.
Ho. Examples?
How about the possibility they are both town?
I don't understand why you are focused so much on Cyan. I don't really think you are scum, but I do think you're milking this for all it's worth, and it speaks badly of you.
Umm, no. You always implied you're not scum but refused to answer a direct question about whether you're town. That meant you're strongly implying that you're neutral.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
You must have missed this.
My point is that Axlerod said up front that he was not going to stick to closely to the source material, so any kind of speculation based on what happened in the books is probably of limited usefulness at best.
smoke_Killah
Okay. Elves?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I could do some research and get back to you, but again I don't think this is very useful...
smoke_Killah
Zebi - 1 (CPE)
Syrenz - 1 (lrd)
Deaths Vampire - 5 (Some One, Cyan, Yodavader, Red 0mega, Deaths Vampire)
AsianInvasion - 3 (MMoD, zindabad, Dagger)
MMoD - 1 (Calvin)
Dagger - 1 (Rafaelk)
lrd - 4 (Syrenz, WoD, jerubbaal, Zebi)
Red 0mega - 2 (kpaca, ImTehFairy)
With 20 players alive it takes 11 votes to lynch.
You know I don't even understand why my character is in the Mines of Moria. I am just saying this because well it doesn't even matter I am dead no matter what I do. The mafia kill me tonight when I claim or the town lynches me.
@ Dagger I did this similar thing with Cyan. Honestly the arguments that are basically because I say so really tick me off. Anyways I think Cyan is town too, the amazing thing is that we have SOOO much scummy behavior from people like Jerubbaal and people are just ignoring it. The other thing that ticks me off is to think that I would claim this early into the game. Cyan is just milking the fact that most players have never played with me. Not my fault I don't play basics...
Sorry again.
Lesson learned: Even the most obvious traps have a chance of working.
Next time I'll just ignore the trap.
Wow, I must not have been paying attention. That makes perfect sense. I can see why he's dangerous for the town to keep around. lrd definitely needs to die today.
DV doesn't look particularly fantastic from where I'm standing.
Please bring more fleshed-out arguments to the table so that I may properly respond to them.
What? How is the difference between "X scum and X-1 scum" negligible? The fewer scum, the better. The whole point is to kill all of them, remember? Or is that not part of your win con?
You mean I rolled my eyes because I didn't think he would fall for it? (Even though he was completely trapped, ironically.)
OK? What is the reasoning behind this list?
1. Why are all of your posts so short?
2. If you can't be bothered to read long posts, Mafia is not the game for you.
This is just sad.
Hi, Mr. "Day-Vig." Please shoot lrd kthxbai.
Are you sure? To me it just seemed that DV was saying that the arguments for lynching lrd based solely on race are illogical, which makes some sense. I never saw any kind of message indicating that they are lovers or siblings.
DV might very well die because of it. He's certainly making a spectacle of himself.
...which is suspicious in and of itself. The way Cyan poked and prodded DV into a frenzy while keeping himself squeaky-clean disturbs me.
It seems I have much to learn.
Great.
OK?
1. It's just a game. Chill out or replace out.
2. You should describe this "scummy behavior from people like Jerubbaal."
3. Don't blame newer players for your lack of emotional maturity.
How does this post have anything to do with the post you quoted?
Ok, here is a little PBPA
Ok, random stage. Nothing much to say here.
He is against the DK and the Cyan thing is still part of the random stage... I think.
Ok this is where it gets interesting, he completely barns Cyan and a couple of other players. A couple of players say I think DV just had a failed gambit. He then uses that as his only piece of voting evidence but instead of just saying I agree with Cyan and Blah Blah, he just posts it as his own ideas again.
The Lrd thing in this post is weird to me. Ok, so, he thinks Lrd is smart.... But I fail to see how this would make Lrd "safe" to ignore. It feels like he is trying to divert attention to me. I mean he basically just called me an idiot and said that we can attack DV because he isn't nominally intelligent.
So, here he raises to points on me an adhom attack and a complete barn.
Here Jer realizes that ignoring someone because they are "intelligent" is a bad move. Then he says Lrd should claim, so we can ignore him. Basically Lrd is town and I know it when he claims.... Seems like inside information to me.
He then places blame on Asian.... For basically no reason at all. And when he is doing this he is just agreeing with another poster.... Because he says AI DOES sound nervous.
Then he agrees with Cyan and says Cyan is right.... Then he says we have a lot of legitimate wagons running. Which doesn't make any sense at all, because the only TWO wagons running were mine and Lrd's. And he has said that he thinks/knows when Lrd claims that he will be town. So, we really only have one "legitimate wagon" running. I just don't get this at all.
Then Jer votes Lrd because he thinks he claimed neutral survivor. Which he didn't by the way he claimed to win with the town. Then he says that the mafia won't kill neutral survivors and that they only become detrimental in the late game. He also says he has never played with neutral survivors before.
He then says that he is either falseclaiming or he is potentially dangerous later in the game.
Which is funny because he was so sure Lrd was going to come up town. This just reads to me "I am scum, I know you are not on my team so you must be town. O noes I forgot about neutrals, because I have never played with them before. But the are anti town, so I should vote them to appear town."
This was an add on by Jer to his post. So, that his post would say detrimental to the town if we make mistakes. Notice the We part here. Like he is trying to integrate himself into our minds with the word town. I purposefully try to use the word town when talking about town actions.
Wasn't he against the DK on like the second post? Yeah he was.... Mmmm, maybe Jer is ok with using it because it won't be used on any of him or his scum buddies?
Some patronizing noob stuff. Like I just don't even want to talk about this. I have more games under my belt than a bunch of you combined. Cyan and alcohol are just a bad mix always.
Ya he did.
Your PBPA is potentially the biggest joke I have seen in a long time. Saying "DV smells like an aborted gambit" is suddenly an adhom attack? Do you even understand what the term means? You deserve to be called an idiot, but I very definitely was not doing that at that point. You cite all this experience, and it's possibly true, but experience is not a substitute for intelligence.
Your only semi-real point is that I barn Cyan, which I did, because I liked his points. Try barning good ideas sometime, it's a better strategy than making up bad ones on your own.
Lrd I read as town, then he claimed neutral, which obviously changes everything. Reading the thread is pro.
The entire rest of your PBPA is dependent on the fact that your genius self didn't realize that lrd actually claimed because of your idiotic ego clash with Cyan, who didn't even do anything near the level of his usual asinine self. If you're only here for the pissing contest, please get out, or at least start thinking. Or just get lynched, I could live with that as well.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Kpaca, any reason for not shooting Lrd? This neutral survivor claim is awful, and even if it is true, should be killed soonish.
No you did. You said that Lrd had intelligence. Which would mean that I didn't. Simple 2+2=4 really.
And my experience might be "possibly true"? What the heck is that it is go look if you don't believe me.
No I was considering doing this anyways. I just do stuff that I find to be a little extreme when I get drunk, I might have still done this sober anyways.
No it isn't it shows only that you can't think for yourself and that you are no better than a sheep being lead by a shepherd. You also ignore the fact where you change your opinion about DK's why was that? You never explained.
@ Jer I am a nice guy and it is really hard to offend me, but you are getting close.
Sign up for League of Legends!
And, you know, it's even possible to criticize the post in a polite way. It's actually easy.
So, everyone please just get along. Or something.
I changed about the DK because there's a target who has to die anyway, no reason not to use the daykill. I was opposed to using it randomly, as seems to be the pattern for game openings lately.
Anyway, the fact that kpaca has checked in and lrd isn't dead means that we should just get on with the lynch.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
This. kpaca, are you killing lrd, refusing to kill lrd or unable to kill lrd?
i don't particularly like either answer, so until he explains himself at least:
Unvote: Deaths_Vampire; Vote: kpaca
smoke_Killah
Well, I directly copy + pasted Cyan's original post against you just for laughs but the sentiment is the same. You said something that didn't really need saying as it is self-apparent and the only point of saying it is to make you look like a good townie.
Pretty much, yeah. There are lots of things that catch my interest and I'd like to respond to each one. I hope you aren't tl'dring though, since half of each post is just the quotes.
Query: If you are really town, and Cyan is town do you really think this will change his playstyle? From what you've said yourself, he's already caused a player to suicide and it hasn't changed his playstyle.
I'll take that as confirmation that you don't have a daykill.
Really, where?
I thought of that and it's possible but I don't see it as likely. They've both had their scummy moments (DV more so) and I'd be surprised if none of them are scum. I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy between them though.
Bah. Not sure how to phrase this properly but this line doesn't make any sense. Basically, since he's found to be scummy you're saying he couldn't have been trying to gain townie points? Or about he was trying to gain townie points but just failed. You can't just look at the result, you have to look at the intention.
Nothing great and there's some really bad points in here.
You yourself just mentioned Asian. There was vocal opinion that Asian was scummy - there's your multiple wagons.
All the add-on did was add the word "if", as far as I can see.
Or maybe (as he later says but which is pretty obvious) he doesn't want to shoot a random person which will likely result in a dead townie but would like to shoot a scummy claimed-neutral survivor?
...and I'll take this as double-confirmation that there's no daykill coming.
Yes, this is the feeling I got from that ':rolleyes:'. More so that he was coaching though, not so much that he was sure it wouldn't work so for me it's more of an issue if lrd flips scum.
DV has admitted that the linked post was a mistake because he did not realize that lrd had claimed neutral survivor.
No u :mad:.
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to lynch lrd as I really doubt kpaca has a kill but it would be nice to hear it from his mouth.
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win