Well seeing as you are attempting at using logic to back up your argument, do you have any empirical data to bring truth to your points? I happen to dislike the random phase because it seems pointless to me, town or scum it doesn't matter. It doesn't lead anywhere...
And there are people who disagree. Let me ask you something, if not for the random phase, how should the game begin? Mass claims? Baseless accusations? Role information?
...
Right. The random phase, like EVERYTHING in mafia, has a point. It serves to get the game rolling and provide points at which people can pick at early. Often, they are newbs who make bad decisions or release scummy aroma's into the fragrant MTGS air. But, they provide points, which leads into more points, and therein into more points.
Random is stupid, but there's few other ways to start the game, and it DOES provide the town some, if not much, information.
And i said to malcolm, (I keep wanting to type Malcom, dunno why, I'm irish) I dont DO empirical evidence, although some day ill probably sit down, devote a year of study to mafia, and analyze every angle of this.
Or i wont, believe what you will.
Now when the game actually begins, that is what I am interested in. It would appear that you are just as eager as I am to end this randomness.
No, See, the randomness has served its point (In record time too! PAGE 2!) We have discussion points, mainly Joboman being opportunistic, you being ridiculously concerned with your image, and the merits of the random phase. I'd say its going well so far.
And as far as joboman's last post, please substantiate why my post is really really bad. You aren't actually saying anything you are just pushing a wagon you think you can get off easily is what I see from what you are doing.
This doesnt concern me. I am just including it cause its part of your post and i wouldnt want people believing me to be exclusionary.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Scum do this all the time to not step on anybody's toes.
A real townie doesn't give a damn what people think of his opinions, because he knows they're justified.
and this is building off of somebody else's argument.
Happy?
I'm not pulling the noob card, sorry I would say I want mercy if I felt that I was being treated unfairly.
I inheritantly hate making waves and stepping on people's toes, if you honestly heard how many times I say I'm sorry in a day you would understand better. Put a better way, I hate being on anyone's bad side or seeing any sort of negative attention thrown at me unless I deserve it. Right now, I feel as if you're pushing a speed lynch because it would be useful to your agenda.
As for your third point, this is your opinion as well. And it is my opinion that if anyone thinks town or scum that they are always justified than they are deluding themselves.
And as for the last part, I was typing as Cyan posted so I did not see his post otherwise I would not have bothered.
Never happy, always thinking. No time to be happy.
And there are people who disagree. Let me ask you something, if not for the random phase, how should the game begin? Mass claims? Baseless accusations? Role information?
...
Right. The random phase, like EVERYTHING in mafia, has a point. It serves to get the game rolling and provide points at which people can pick at early. Often, they are newbs who make bad decisions or release scummy aroma's into the fragrant MTGS air. But, they provide points, which leads into more points, and therein into more points.
Random is stupid, but there's few other ways to start the game, and it DOES provide the town some, if not much, information.
And i said to malcolm, (I keep wanting to type Malcom, dunno why, I'm irish) I dont DO empirical evidence, although some day ill probably sit down, devote a year of study to mafia, and analyze every angle of this.
Or i wont, believe what you will.
No, See, the randomness has served its point (In record time too! PAGE 2!) We have discussion points, mainly Joboman being opportunistic, you being ridiculously concerned with your image, and the merits of the random phase. I'd say its going well so far.
This doesnt concern me. I am just including it cause its part of your post and i wouldnt want people believing me to be exclusionary.
And there are people who disagree. Let me ask you something, if not for the random phase, how should the game begin? Mass claims? Baseless accusations? Role information?
...
Right. The random phase, like EVERYTHING in mafia, has a point. It serves to get the game rolling and provide points at which people can pick at early. Often, they are newbs who make bad decisions or release scummy aroma's into the fragrant MTGS air. But, they provide points, which leads into more points, and therein into more points.
Random is stupid, but there's few other ways to start the game, and it DOES provide the town some, if not much, information.
And i said to malcolm, (I keep wanting to type Malcom, dunno why, I'm irish) I dont DO empirical evidence, although some day ill probably sit down, devote a year of study to mafia, and analyze every angle of this.
Or i wont, believe what you will.
No, See, the randomness has served its point (In record time too! PAGE 2!) We have discussion points, mainly Joboman being opportunistic, you being ridiculously concerned with your image, and the merits of the random phase. I'd say its going well so far.
This doesnt concern me. I am just including it cause its part of your post and i wouldnt want people believing me to be exclusionary.
Ok as per the massive part, so you have gained some information on this silliness, that's fine by me.
And as per the empirical evidence thing, sorry but we all seem to be posting in a flurry.
And as for your other bit about including the bit not pertaining to you, I appreciate you treating me with respect in that fashion.
You may notice that my first game on this site was also Calvin's.
I appreciate your effort though. I really do.
You have to admit the similarities are striking. His brother?
Also, Joboman brought up what I was getting at. It's not anything about the random stage, but his worrying about image.
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
And for the question I was directly asked, I suppose I just don't like the early game of mafia itself... It reminds me too much of the early parts of a poker tournament where I usually just sit back relax and yawn a whole lot.
If you read my past games, this is my personality.
Perhaps i will. But again, I have no true way to know thats your personality, or whether you have Adjusted into this personality because it works for you. I have a personality too, it involves lurking through day 1 and 2 if town, and being the squeaky-cleaest scum ever when not town.
Oh, and although there will be disagreements, i would like to personally say my gut is psychic and has a great degree of scum-testing. I tend to know who scum are, but i suck at verbalizing it.
Of course I have to be defensive when an admittedly stronger player starts attacking me.
Why thank you. Tho, to be fair, this is PROBABLY a point against you as im considered pretty bad on the attack. I Dont use good logic, i suck at a sustained attack, and i get way too caught up emotionally. Im a pretty bad mafia player.
And for what it's worth the word good is all based on perspective, the town all consider themselves to be the good guys and the scum to be evil, whereas the scum would likely consider themselves to be good guys and the town to be the evil. So using the word good needs to be more thoroughly defined in what you are saying.
Quit the sophistry, you're PURPOSELY splitting hairs, and you know PRECISELY who the good and evil sides are. Hell, i've been mafia a GREAT deal of times, and every time, i know, without a doubt, if im scum, : IM THE BAD GUY. Not the good guy.
If you are using it to describe my play and not my personality, I am still learning the ropes in this game, so yes my play is not particularly good.
Noob Card.
But if you are straight up calling me bad as far as alignment then you are grasping at straws in my opinion. (the reason I signed up for this game is for lore purposes, I wanna see if I can figure out who scum are based on things I wish to ask later on after we all have a good feel for each other and I'm more interested in figuring out how SP set up the teams than anything...)
You call it Straws, i call it yanking down your top to check your goods. You are scummy. It's my belief and im not backing down based on sophistry and claims of "Its how i am!"
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
And for the question I was directly asked, I suppose I just don't like the early game of mafia itself... It reminds me too much of the early parts of a poker tournament where I usually just sit back relax and yawn a whole lot.
And to answer this, this isnt poker. There isnt a small force chipping away at the game, forcing action. There are no blinds to eat your money, there is ONLY what we ourselves generate. The comparison is incredibly flawed.
EWP: I fully expected a post by now, but since there isnt. EBWODP
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Fair enough that's what you are I can't argue with that.
And as far as calling my thoughts on the basis of good and evil sophistry, you completely blew my point off. I asked you to say whether you are calling my personality good/evil or my play good/bad... I want a solid answer in that regard and would appreciate it very much.
Again, I am not using the noob card, I would say so otherwise. I am not trying to drum up sympathy by saying please don't point your fingers at me I am inexperienced. I don't want your sympathy. And the only way I think a person learns to play a game is by being put under pressure.
"You are scummy." Think what you will, that's fine. Interestingly enough my read on you is town even though your arguments are far superior to joboman, who in my opinion is possibly scum. And I applaud you for not backing down from your convictions, it's character defining to be so sure of oneself.
Seems like it's getting lost in the shuffle, but, my vote on joboman is 100% serious. He voted 3 different people in the first like 30 posts, and none of them seemed to be random votes. That is as opportunistic as it gets.
Fair enough that's what you are I can't argue with that.
I think this was a subtle/not-so-subtle insult! HAVE AT THEE!
And as far as calling my thoughts on the basis of good and evil sophistry, you completely blew my point off. I asked you to say whether you are calling my personality good/evil or my play good/bad... I want a solid answer in that regard and would appreciate it very much.
Im stating that you seem to do alot of things that dont add up from a townie mindset. I suck at BEING in a townie mindset when not actively working at it, but i do understand what is required of a townie mindset, and you seem to not be working at it. Good and Evil... they have no TRUE place in a discussion of a person or their play style in mafia. Mafia is a game about Shades of Grey.
Again, I am not using the noob card, I would say so otherwise. I am not trying to drum up sympathy by saying please don't point your fingers at me I am inexperienced. I don't want your sympathy. And the only way I think a person learns to play a game is by being put under pressure.
While true, just a point: Quite a few people NEVER learn.
"You are scummy." Think what you will, that's fine. Interestingly enough my read on you is town even though your arguments are far superior to joboman, who in my opinion is possibly scum. And I applaud you for not backing down from your convictions, it's character defining to be so sure of oneself.
Maybe its cause Im using logical townie-sense. Maybe its because i am using legitimate reasons and leading an unpopular attack, (Hey, im George Bush!).
Or, and let's be realistic here, the most likely reason is because you're totally mesmerized by the Martini Man to the Left of this post.
He's Wonderful.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Seems like it's getting lost in the shuffle, but, my vote on joboman is 100% serious. He voted 3 different people in the first like 30 posts, and none of them seemed to be random votes. That is as opportunistic as it gets.
cool story bro.
Just checking in. I have exams this week so don't get your feelings hurt.
Seems like it's getting lost in the shuffle, but, my vote on joboman is 100% serious. He voted 3 different people in the first like 30 posts, and none of them seemed to be random votes. That is as opportunistic as it gets.
I think this was a subtle/not-so-subtle insult! HAVE AT THEE!
Im stating that you seem to do alot of things that dont add up from a townie mindset. I suck at BEING in a townie mindset when not actively working at it, but i do understand what is required of a townie mindset, and you seem to not be working at it. Good and Evil... they have no TRUE place in a discussion of a person or their play style in mafia. Mafia is a game about Shades of Grey.
While true, just a point: Quite a few people NEVER learn.
Maybe its cause Im using logical townie-sense. Maybe its because i am using legitimate reasons and leading an unpopular attack, (Hey, im George Bush!).
Or, and let's be realistic here, the most likely reason is because you're totally mesmerized by the Martini Man to the Left of this post.
He's Wonderful.
Nah no insult was intended, I'm not big on ad hominem.
I may seem to be not working at it, but honestly I'm not very good at conforming to other people's methods of playing. I don't understand why people get so set on townie/scummy mindset and why people seem insistent on not breaking the mold and analyzing what is being said and not how it is being said.
I would agree with you if there weren't other people on the offense, sure it isn't very popular right now but that doesn't necessarily make it unpopular.
and as far as the martini man...damn you and your charismatic hypnotism.
Seems like it's getting lost in the shuffle, but, my vote on joboman is 100% serious. He voted 3 different people in the first like 30 posts, and none of them seemed to be random votes. That is as opportunistic as it gets.
You didn't include his FoS. And while the vote on Syrenz is random, the other 2 very clearly aren't.
You didn't include his FoS either, as you specifically mentioned voting 3 different people. While the vote for Wolf with a Bass could be argued to not be random, the vote against me was mainly OMGUS, which this early in the game can easily be considered a part of the random phase.
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:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
Zaj I would like to point out that his vote on me was clearly not random and he backed it up with hypocritical reasoning. His voting pattern is jittery at best, in my opinion if an even bigger target shows up in the game, I think his vote will change quickly, perhaps more subtly than he has done so so far. To his vote on you, very definately omgus, but I would say that an action like that has to have some motivation outside of just plain randomness.
EBWODP: It would appear that you and I, cyan, are on the same wavelength as far as joboman goes...
Unfortunately, I want a bit more evidence on him before I place my vote, I want to be sure of that decision as much as possible.
The fact that you and Cyan are building on each other's cases worries me. The fact that you're trying to lump me in with that worries me even further. I think that you and Cyan are more likely to be scum than Joboman. As is, I think I'll keep my vote on you, Wolf with a Bass, because I haven't seen reason to do otherwise. I think I'll FoS: Cyan as well.
I've got to get to bed because I have school early in the morning. I'll be back on tomorrow.
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Seems like it's getting lost in the shuffle, but, my vote on joboman is 100% serious. He voted 3 different people in the first like 30 posts, and none of them seemed to be random votes. That is as opportunistic as it gets.
Oh hi, you mustn't have played with joboman before. Oh wait, you have. Wtf, dude?
Oh yeah and StormBlind, I wanted to say that your new avatar is awesome and you've posted more text than your past three games I've seen you in combined.
Seem a bit jumpy there.
Unvote, Vote: Wolf with a bass
Said by the jumpiest player here, it's pretty funny .
Oh, and by the way, it is more than an advice. I know that Seppel and Joboman are scums. I am their scumbuddy, and so I know who are my allies. It is true.
Cyan and Wolf are scum-buddies? Well thats good. They back up each others cases and defend eachother. Cyan also attacks me when I attack wolf. Deflection. Cyan knows that my first real vote was on wolf, all the other were randddomms. If you think i'm jumpy now, look at asterix mafia where I vote like... 3 times in the first three posts? i dunno. and i was town thar.
Stormblind is awesome. I feel bad for him because when going after a player you can't get into theory arguments, it just goes nowhere. The point is that wolf is arguing with you on the little points until the big points seem like they don't matter, which is distracccctttion.
... DING DING DING. You hit Salvation scum hunting method 1. And the TRUE meaning of random voting. Yes, it IS utterly retarded, but its also one of the best ways to nail scum, the town realize they have no real information, and thus, the random session is just fun and getting into the game (and trust me, the random phase can actually determine the pace of the whole game.)
The scum? Nope, they have NO reason to like the random phase, and actively dislike it as it doesnt lead to dead townies most of the time.
People who advocate an extreme dislike of the random phase have incredibly high rates of scumhood.
Guess who's badmouthing the random phase and stating its useless? (Im paraphrasing, dont get your pink nickers in a twist) You are.
Hello Scum #1. Who are your friends?
Vote Wolf With A Bass
An interesting theory and one I could likely get behind. Let's take a look:
I see, unfortunately I haven't played as many games as you guys have so I have no idea as to what the cliques are on this board. I also prefer not to vote for someone unless I actually have a good reason. So casting a vote again this early would be going on far too little information and would be too omgus for my tastes.
And joboman, bandwagon much. Not to mention the hypocrisy pointed out in your current posting trend.
Well seeing as you are attempting at using logic to back up your argument, do you have any empirical data to bring truth to your points? I happen to dislike the random phase because it seems pointless to me, town or scum it doesn't matter. It doesn't lead anywhere...
Now when the game actually begins, that is what I am interested in. It would appear that you are just as eager as I am to end this randomness.
And as far as joboman's last post, please substantiate why my post is really really bad. You aren't actually saying anything you are just pushing a wagon you think you can get off easily is what I see from what you are doing.
If you read my past games, this is my personality. Of course I have to be defensive when an admittedly stronger player starts attacking me. And for what it's worth the word good is all based on perspective, the town all consider themselves to be the good guys and the scum to be evil, whereas the scum would likely consider themselves to be good guys and the town to be the evil. So using the word good needs to be more thoroughly defined in what you are saying. If you are using it to describe my play and not my personality, I am still learning the ropes in this game, so yes my play is not particularly good. But if you are straight up calling me bad as far as alignment then you are grasping at straws in my opinion. (the reason I signed up for this game is for lore purposes, I wanna see if I can figure out who scum are based on things I wish to ask later on after we all have a good feel for each other and I'm more interested in figuring out how SP set up the teams than anything...)
I'm not pulling the noob card, sorry I would say I want mercy if I felt that I was being treated unfairly.
I inheritantly hate making waves and stepping on people's toes, if you honestly heard how many times I say I'm sorry in a day you would understand better. Put a better way, I hate being on anyone's bad side or seeing any sort of negative attention thrown at me unless I deserve it. Right now, I feel as if you're pushing a speed lynch because it would be useful to your agenda.
As for your third point, this is your opinion as well. And it is my opinion that if anyone thinks town or scum that they are always justified than they are deluding themselves.
And as for the last part, I was typing as Cyan posted so I did not see his post otherwise I would not have bothered.
Never happy, always thinking. No time to be happy.
Ok as per the massive part, so you have gained some information on this silliness, that's fine by me.
And as per the empirical evidence thing, sorry but we all seem to be posting in a flurry.
And as for your other bit about including the bit not pertaining to you, I appreciate you treating me with respect in that fashion.
Fair enough that's what you are I can't argue with that.
And as far as calling my thoughts on the basis of good and evil sophistry, you completely blew my point off. I asked you to say whether you are calling my personality good/evil or my play good/bad... I want a solid answer in that regard and would appreciate it very much.
Again, I am not using the noob card, I would say so otherwise. I am not trying to drum up sympathy by saying please don't point your fingers at me I am inexperienced. I don't want your sympathy. And the only way I think a person learns to play a game is by being put under pressure.
"You are scummy." Think what you will, that's fine. Interestingly enough my read on you is town even though your arguments are far superior to joboman, who in my opinion is possibly scum. And I applaud you for not backing down from your convictions, it's character defining to be so sure of oneself.
Nah no insult was intended, I'm not big on ad hominem.
I may seem to be not working at it, but honestly I'm not very good at conforming to other people's methods of playing. I don't understand why people get so set on townie/scummy mindset and why people seem insistent on not breaking the mold and analyzing what is being said and not how it is being said.
I would agree with you if there weren't other people on the offense, sure it isn't very popular right now but that doesn't necessarily make it unpopular.
and as far as the martini man...damn you and your charismatic hypnotism.
EBWODP: It would appear that you and I, cyan, are on the same wavelength as far as joboman goes...
Unfortunately, I want a bit more evidence on him before I place my vote, I want to be sure of that decision as much as possible.
And both of these contain him aligning himself with the stronger players (I know you've been gone for awhile, StormBlind, but you're still one of the best players on the site, I'm sure)
All of these are valid points against him in terms of whether he's town or scum. Yet, still, my gut tells me he's town and just really defensive.
A tip to you, WWaB, I know you're a really defensive person (as you stated) but townies generally don't worry about a couple people saying they seem scummy. That's why people are jumping on you for being so defensive. It makes you look scummy, like you got something to hide.
And seriously, trying to argue that not liking the random voting stage is a scum tell is ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure that I have never random voted in my entire mafia career. I despise the random voting stage, it is absolutely useless.
Cyan, surely you can see how it would be a scumtell on some players. It is not a definite scumtell, as you show because everyone knows Cyan hates the random voting stage. (Seriously, it's come up in every game I've played with you, and that seems to be a lot.)
In a town full of vanilla, I think I know what the mafia would...
Y'know, if we manage to out the doc 'n cop again, I wouldn't be against it. Or at least just the doc, because cops are for pansies.
I hope this game doesn't have a cop.
Are we seriously discussing a mass claim on day 1? lol
As with Joss Whedon, if most of the town's power roles end up outing themselves within day 1, then I will support a mass claim day 1, but not now, lol.
The hypocrisy is amazing.
I firmly agree. Vote: Joboman
I've never seen you so jumpy with your vote.
Oh hi, you mustn't have played with joboman before. Oh wait, you have. Wtf, dude?
Yeah, and he gets mis-lynched a lot because of how he plays, man. Please don't defend him for this.
I think Zaj's push on Cyan is scummy for a couple of reasons:
I posted pretty much the same thing as Zaj did defending joboman with an opposite result. His post really sticks out to me as out of place for a defense.
He doesn't actually vote for Cyan, but makes it clear his behavior is worth looking into. I still find this a tactic used by newbie scum over newbie town players.
He ignores anything else in the thread. I suppose this loosely ties into why point #1 sticks out so strongly to me.
I think Zaj's push on Cyan is scummy for a couple of reasons:
I posted pretty much the same thing as Zaj did defending joboman with an opposite result. His post really sticks out to me as out of place for a defense.
He doesn't actually vote for Cyan, but makes it clear his behavior is worth looking into. I still find this a tactic used by newbie scum over newbie town players.
He ignores anything else in the thread. I suppose this loosely ties into why point #1 sticks out so strongly to me.
vote Zajnet
I'll /barn what you're saying, but I still like my vote on the man from jobo. Jumpy, jumpy, jumpy.
the one on zajnet. the post did rub me the wrong way, though.
Then it's not random at all. It can't be random if you said you voted him for "rubbing you the wrong way" and he did actually rub you the wrong way. Can't have your cake and eat it to, dude.
Seems like it's getting lost in the shuffle, but, my vote on joboman is 100% serious. He voted 3 different people in the first like 30 posts, and none of them seemed to be random votes. That is as opportunistic as it gets.
I think your "analysis" is worthless, cause it's Joboman, who comes off as scummy 110% of the time. To barn Seppel:
I think Zaj's push on Cyan is scummy for a couple of reasons:
I posted pretty much the same thing as Zaj did defending joboman with an opposite result. His post really sticks out to me as out of place for a defense.
He doesn't actually vote for Cyan, but makes it clear his behavior is worth looking into. I still find this a tactic used by newbie scum over newbie town players.
He ignores anything else in the thread. I suppose this loosely ties into why point #1 sticks out so strongly to me.
I think Zaj's push on Cyan is scummy for a couple of reasons:
I posted pretty much the same thing as Zaj did defending joboman with an opposite result. His post really sticks out to me as out of place for a defense.
He doesn't actually vote for Cyan, but makes it clear his behavior is worth looking into. I still find this a tactic used by newbie scum over newbie town players.
He ignores anything else in the thread. I suppose this loosely ties into why point #1 sticks out so strongly to me.
vote Zajnet
I'm not sure what you were getting at with your post because you didn't say anything other than "but" and "...:-/". I imagine you were trying to point out hypocrisy, but that was simply Joboman bringing an end to the random phase if I understand everything correctly. How is my post out of place for a defense, coming 6 minutes after Cyan reiterated his attack on Joboman?
I left my vote on WwaB because I thought and still think that he is more likely to be scum than Cyan, but I think Cyan is scum also, hence the FoS. I don't really get why you think I'd be more likely to do that as scum than as town?
What have I been ignoring? I might have inadvertently missed a post somewhere since I've been doing most of this on my phone, but I haven't intentionally ignored anything. I've been addressing what I feel is scummy behavior in WwaB and Cyan. I've read some past games, and Joboman's behavior isn't consistent with when he is actually scum.
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On Basic 16, he voted for 3 people in the first page, then on the second page, moved out of the random to vote for someone he thought was being scummy, which is almost exactly what has happened here. He was town in that game.
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On Basic 16, he voted for 3 people in the first page, then on the second page, moved out of the random to vote for someone he thought was being scummy, which is almost exactly what has happened here. He was town in that game.
Being consistent with past town play is not the same as being inconsistent with past scum play.
He also just died, as mafia, in Xyre's game. He replaced in, and was seriously the most obvious scum I have ever seen.
And he's definitely behaving very similarly this game.
U joking?
I've never played the random phase as scum, nor the beggining of a game as scum.
When I was a cult I was turned into cult day 2 AND replaced into that game.
When I was scum I replaced into on day 2.
And I like how cyan doesn't even give any reasoning for hos "i'm acting the same" he just says it so IT MUST BE TRUE :rolleyes:.
I also LOVE how cyan calls me "obvious scum" when the only reason he shot me is because... well. I'm sure most of you know and I'll resist talking about another game.
I've never played the random phase as scum, nor the beggining of a game as scum.
When I was a cult I was turned into cult day 2 AND replaced into that game.
When I was scum I replaced into on day 2.
And I like how cyan doesn't even give any reasoning for hos "i'm acting the same" he just says it so IT MUST BE TRUE :rolleyes:.
I also LOVE how cyan calls me "obvious scum" when the only reason he shot me is because... well. I'm sure most of you know and I'll resist talking about another game.
I'm more inclined to believe Cyan's POV in this situation.
Because
(a) Cyan didn't say anything about the random phase. Joboman came out of nowhere with that.
(b) Cyan has proven his ability to successfully analyze people, whereas I haven't seen Joboman be right about anybody.
...
Right. The random phase, like EVERYTHING in mafia, has a point. It serves to get the game rolling and provide points at which people can pick at early. Often, they are newbs who make bad decisions or release scummy aroma's into the fragrant MTGS air. But, they provide points, which leads into more points, and therein into more points.
Random is stupid, but there's few other ways to start the game, and it DOES provide the town some, if not much, information.
And i said to malcolm, (I keep wanting to type Malcom, dunno why, I'm irish) I dont DO empirical evidence, although some day ill probably sit down, devote a year of study to mafia, and analyze every angle of this.
Or i wont, believe what you will.
No, See, the randomness has served its point (In record time too! PAGE 2!) We have discussion points, mainly Joboman being opportunistic, you being ridiculously concerned with your image, and the merits of the random phase. I'd say its going well so far.
This doesnt concern me. I am just including it cause its part of your post and i wouldnt want people believing me to be exclusionary. And there are people who disagree. Let me ask you something, if not for the random phase, how should the game begin? Mass claims? Baseless accusations? Role information?
I'm not pulling the noob card, sorry I would say I want mercy if I felt that I was being treated unfairly.
I inheritantly hate making waves and stepping on people's toes, if you honestly heard how many times I say I'm sorry in a day you would understand better. Put a better way, I hate being on anyone's bad side or seeing any sort of negative attention thrown at me unless I deserve it. Right now, I feel as if you're pushing a speed lynch because it would be useful to your agenda.
As for your third point, this is your opinion as well. And it is my opinion that if anyone thinks town or scum that they are always justified than they are deluding themselves.
And as for the last part, I was typing as Cyan posted so I did not see his post otherwise I would not have bothered.
Never happy, always thinking. No time to be happy.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
I try
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Ok as per the massive part, so you have gained some information on this silliness, that's fine by me.
And as per the empirical evidence thing, sorry but we all seem to be posting in a flurry.
And as for your other bit about including the bit not pertaining to you, I appreciate you treating me with respect in that fashion.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
You have to admit the similarities are striking. His brother?
Also, Joboman brought up what I was getting at. It's not anything about the random stage, but his worrying about image.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
Oh, and although there will be disagreements, i would like to personally say my gut is psychic and has a great degree of scum-testing. I tend to know who scum are, but i suck at verbalizing it. Why thank you. Tho, to be fair, this is PROBABLY a point against you as im considered pretty bad on the attack. I Dont use good logic, i suck at a sustained attack, and i get way too caught up emotionally. Im a pretty bad mafia player. Quit the sophistry, you're PURPOSELY splitting hairs, and you know PRECISELY who the good and evil sides are. Hell, i've been mafia a GREAT deal of times, and every time, i know, without a doubt, if im scum, : IM THE BAD GUY. Not the good guy. Noob Card.
You call it Straws, i call it yanking down your top to check your goods. You are scummy. It's my belief and im not backing down based on sophistry and claims of "Its how i am!" Perhaps i will. But again, I have no true way to know thats your personality, or whether you have Adjusted into this personality because it works for you. I have a personality too, it involves lurking through day 1 and 2 if town, and being the squeaky-cleaest scum ever when not town.
OH NOES! ITS WUFFLES AND WOD! THEY'RE BACK UNDER NEW NAMES!
My question wasnt purely rhetorical, How would you start the game if not for random phase?
True, mostly why it was a single line and not a whole paragraph (Split up into many separate lines. Im an AWESOME writer)
I try to be respectful... while cracking a joke if possible.
And to answer this, this isnt poker. There isnt a small force chipping away at the game, forcing action. There are no blinds to eat your money, there is ONLY what we ourselves generate. The comparison is incredibly flawed.
EWP: I fully expected a post by now, but since there isnt. EBWODP
And as far as calling my thoughts on the basis of good and evil sophistry, you completely blew my point off. I asked you to say whether you are calling my personality good/evil or my play good/bad... I want a solid answer in that regard and would appreciate it very much.
Again, I am not using the noob card, I would say so otherwise. I am not trying to drum up sympathy by saying please don't point your fingers at me I am inexperienced. I don't want your sympathy. And the only way I think a person learns to play a game is by being put under pressure.
"You are scummy." Think what you will, that's fine. Interestingly enough my read on you is town even though your arguments are far superior to joboman, who in my opinion is possibly scum. And I applaud you for not backing down from your convictions, it's character defining to be so sure of oneself.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
Yes my comparison to poker is flawed but it works for me, rationalization.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
Im stating that you seem to do alot of things that dont add up from a townie mindset. I suck at BEING in a townie mindset when not actively working at it, but i do understand what is required of a townie mindset, and you seem to not be working at it. Good and Evil... they have no TRUE place in a discussion of a person or their play style in mafia. Mafia is a game about Shades of Grey.
While true, just a point: Quite a few people NEVER learn.
Maybe its cause Im using logical townie-sense. Maybe its because i am using legitimate reasons and leading an unpopular attack, (Hey, im George Bush!).
Or, and let's be realistic here, the most likely reason is because you're totally mesmerized by the Martini Man to the Left of this post.
He's Wonderful. I think this was a subtle/not-so-subtle insult! HAVE AT THEE!
cool story bro.
Just checking in. I have exams this week so don't get your feelings hurt.
Not that I'm backing up joboman, but how are these not random votes?
First post, "a bit jumpy," and "rubs me the wrong way."
The fact that you keep bringing up "how opportunistic he is" makes me wary of you. Not so wary to FoS, but certainly IGMEOY
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Nah no insult was intended, I'm not big on ad hominem.
I may seem to be not working at it, but honestly I'm not very good at conforming to other people's methods of playing. I don't understand why people get so set on townie/scummy mindset and why people seem insistent on not breaking the mold and analyzing what is being said and not how it is being said.
I would agree with you if there weren't other people on the offense, sure it isn't very popular right now but that doesn't necessarily make it unpopular.
and as far as the martini man...damn you and your charismatic hypnotism.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
You didn't include his FoS either, as you specifically mentioned voting 3 different people. While the vote for Wolf with a Bass could be argued to not be random, the vote against me was mainly OMGUS, which this early in the game can easily be considered a part of the random phase.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Thanks for helping build the case against him.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
Unfortunately, I want a bit more evidence on him before I place my vote, I want to be sure of that decision as much as possible.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
The fact that you and Cyan are building on each other's cases worries me. The fact that you're trying to lump me in with that worries me even further. I think that you and Cyan are more likely to be scum than Joboman. As is, I think I'll keep my vote on you, Wolf with a Bass, because I haven't seen reason to do otherwise. I think I'll FoS: Cyan as well.
I've got to get to bed because I have school early in the morning. I'll be back on tomorrow.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Whaaaat?
I LOVE Cyan! He is very fun to play with.
In a town full of vanilla, I think I know what the mafia would...
Y'know, if we manage to out the doc 'n cop again, I wouldn't be against it. Or at least just the doc, because cops are for pansies.
I hope this game doesn't have a cop.
The hypocrisy is amazing.
What AI said. You've been scum before, and this is you being defensive. Also of note, Cyan isn't commenting on you at all.
Oh hi, you mustn't have played with joboman before. Oh wait, you have. Wtf, dude?
Just like I'm correct now.
Early scumbuddy bus so you can say you were right later? I don't know, dude, he does this as town too.
Welcome to scum-kingdom, and let me introduce to you the king :
and the queen :
Said by the jumpiest player here, it's pretty funny .
Oh, and by the way, it is more than an advice. I know that Seppel and Joboman are scums. I am their scumbuddy, and so I know who are my allies. It is true.
(Or not. But who knows? )
[The Family] pressed the "lynch" button, thinking it was labeled "lunch" .
Stormblind is awesome. I feel bad for him because when going after a player you can't get into theory arguments, it just goes nowhere. The point is that wolf is arguing with you on the little points until the big points seem like they don't matter, which is distracccctttion.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
You know, I actually missed your vague sensical posts. Surprised.
You'd better be joking.
An interesting theory and one I could likely get behind. Let's take a look:
Overly defensive
subtle-ish noob card defense
Defensive again
Faulting his playstyle along with WIFOM
Defensive again
meh
Defensive again
And both of these contain him aligning himself with the stronger players (I know you've been gone for awhile, StormBlind, but you're still one of the best players on the site, I'm sure)
A tip to you, WWaB, I know you're a really defensive person (as you stated) but townies generally don't worry about a couple people saying they seem scummy. That's why people are jumping on you for being so defensive. It makes you look scummy, like you got something to hide.
Cyan, surely you can see how it would be a scumtell on some players. It is not a definite scumtell, as you show because everyone knows Cyan hates the random voting stage. (Seriously, it's come up in every game I've played with you, and that seems to be a lot.)
OMG Sigged.
Oh, lord, sigged as well.
Are we seriously discussing a mass claim on day 1? lol
As with Joss Whedon, if most of the town's power roles end up outing themselves within day 1, then I will support a mass claim day 1, but not now, lol.
I firmly agree.
Vote: Joboman
I've never seen you so jumpy with your vote.
Yeah, and he gets mis-lynched a lot because of how he plays, man. Please don't defend him for this.
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No reasoning?
I'll /barn what you're saying, but I still like my vote on the man from jobo. Jumpy, jumpy, jumpy.
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Town:
Manders
Stormblind
Undecided:
Everyone Else
Scum:
Cyan
Zajnet
Wolf with a Bass
and my last vote was semi-random.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
the one on zajnet. the post did rub me the wrong way, though.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Then it's not random at all. It can't be random if you said you voted him for "rubbing you the wrong way" and he did actually rub you the wrong way. Can't have your cake and eat it to, dude.
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We even have Mafia!!
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
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This looks pretty bad, so I'm going to ask for some clarification.
Next: Unvote, Vote: Seppel cause it's fun.
Thirdly: Unvote.
I don't like how you tie yourself to other players like this.
I think your "analysis" is worthless, cause it's Joboman, who comes off as scummy 110% of the time. To barn Seppel:
On the other hand, I appreciate this insight, which feels on-target:
Vote: Zajnet
I'm not sure what you were getting at with your post because you didn't say anything other than "but" and "...:-/". I imagine you were trying to point out hypocrisy, but that was simply Joboman bringing an end to the random phase if I understand everything correctly. How is my post out of place for a defense, coming 6 minutes after Cyan reiterated his attack on Joboman?
I left my vote on WwaB because I thought and still think that he is more likely to be scum than Cyan, but I think Cyan is scum also, hence the FoS. I don't really get why you think I'd be more likely to do that as scum than as town?
What have I been ignoring? I might have inadvertently missed a post somewhere since I've been doing most of this on my phone, but I haven't intentionally ignored anything. I've been addressing what I feel is scummy behavior in WwaB and Cyan. I've read some past games, and Joboman's behavior isn't consistent with when he is actually scum.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
On Basic 16, he voted for 3 people in the first page, then on the second page, moved out of the random to vote for someone he thought was being scummy, which is almost exactly what has happened here. He was town in that game.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Being consistent with past town play is not the same as being inconsistent with past scum play.
Yeah I said it wrong the first time, so sue me. He hasn't been scum in any finished games yet.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
He was a cultist in some game, which is scum.
He also just died, as mafia, in Xyre's game. He replaced in, and was seriously the most obvious scum I have ever seen.
And he's definitely behaving very similarly this game.
U joking?
I've never played the random phase as scum, nor the beggining of a game as scum.
When I was a cult I was turned into cult day 2 AND replaced into that game.
When I was scum I replaced into on day 2.
And I like how cyan doesn't even give any reasoning for hos "i'm acting the same" he just says it so IT MUST BE TRUE :rolleyes:.
I also LOVE how cyan calls me "obvious scum" when the only reason he shot me is because... well. I'm sure most of you know and I'll resist talking about another game.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I'm more inclined to believe Cyan's POV in this situation.
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Any particular reason?
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Because
(a) Cyan didn't say anything about the random phase. Joboman came out of nowhere with that.
(b) Cyan has proven his ability to successfully analyze people, whereas I haven't seen Joboman be right about anybody.
Don't me without giving a reason.
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