After the last Anak post, I'm willing to barn that case. The whole thing just reads fabricated, especially "ZDS must be misguided townie" thing. The sub-text there is "I don't want to fight with you, please just go away."
Vote: Anak
I'm willing to fight with ZDS. You are trying to put words in my mouth now. I said I think ZDS is a misguided townie because I think ZDS is a misguided townie. I don't think he is scum because the person he happens to be scumhunting is me. The people I believe to be scum are the people who hop on the wagon with very little reasoning of their own. They are using the wagon as an excuse to place votes which they can hide behind. If they were town, wouldn't they try to add to the wagon because they are so sure I'm scum? They can't, because they are scum, and can't push too hard for a mislynch, otherwise the next day the town is going to go after them with torches and pitchforks.
[font=georgia][font=georgia]
OMGUSes on DYH and AE + Votes the weakest link on his wagon + Tries to get my trust + Fearmongers.
I love my vote.
So the weakest link on a townie wagon isn't likely to be scum? Please explain that. Not sure where the OMGUS was on DYH, all I said about him was that he barned you and didn't back it up with much. Yes, the OMGUS on AE is actually stronger, but look at the way he is acting. I spelled it out in my previous post, but he has pushed for me as scum, without adding ANYTHING to the wagon. Fearmongering? Where? Saying I think I found scum? Then all you have been doing is fearmongering. Please actually back up your reasons for voting me.
EBWODP: I totally did reread his posts, and excuses aside, the basis of those posts aren't really scummy. He was simply trying to determine the purpose of tthe card in the graveyard, something that we all should be doing right now. I'll get to that later.
Is that so? My main purpose and goal is to hunt the scum down, not go on a goose hunt looking for purpose to cards.
Seriously, the attacks on Anak are based upon nothing but those excuses. I agree that excuses suck, but that early and based on his specific points, it deserves suspicion at best, not full-blown scumtell.
It deserves pressure, the kind of pressure that comes with a vote.
Note that ZDS's attacks and your attacks brought us out of the random phase, which scum are way more likely to do than town.
1. Faster out of the day, faster into the night. Getting out of random phase is just a way of moving the day along, with the scum pushing for a mislynch.
Wrong
2. The random phase is the perfect place for scum to take something innocent and turn it into something scummy. Someone may post something in jest and a scum could try and convince the town of something else in that post. The scum hopes for a lynch off of said mis-information.
Somewhat contradicts what you just said. They would want the random to go on longer for more ammunition.
If the scum think there is something in the random phase that they can distort and turn into a mislynch, it's totally advantageous for them. I know that out of random doesn't totally make the day shorter, but if they can take advantage of it and make it seem like a town play/get a mislynch, they will take the opportunity. Getting out of random gives scum a chance to take advantage of a confusing situation and get into the night. It doesn't mean they will see success, it just means it gives them a good advantage.
Scum love for the day to last as long as it can. They would drag it out and wait for the mod to put a deadline up and in the ensuing rush create havoc and confusion to get a mislynch and an excuse for being on a wagon.
. They are using the wagon as an excuse to place votes which they can hide behind.
This is not right. You can't hide behind a vote. That puts you out there in the spotlight. You get called on and scrutinized for votes. It leaves a history for others to look back onto. Theres no hiding behind votes.
If they were town, wouldn't they try to add to the wagon because they are so sure I'm scum? They can't, because they are scum, and can't push too hard for a mislynch, otherwise the next day the town is going to go after them with torches and pitchforks.
Don't worry keep posting and I'll push even harder. I'm not pushing for a mislynch and I'm not afraid of going after someone I think is scummy. You wonder where ZDS got some of that fearmongering from?
Quickly answering this before fully rereading: I don't. I thought his actions deserved explaination from the beginning, thus my FoS on him. I was far more concerned by the three people voting on him with little to no reasoning (see my arguments on AE) before he came back. I have said and still stand by my argument that I will see the defense that Anak puts up before I will be swayed, which I'm about to do. I think he might have made a dumb move early on, which gave the scum reason to lay a case on him and hope for a quick lynch. My arguments with AE and ZDS should not be misconstrued as arguments for Anak, he's still not looking very impressive in this game.
I'm gonna catch up on ZDS's further arguments against Anak, Anak's responses and the line-by-line of AE's responses, then I'll be back for more!
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1 he FOS Anak after a few people had said something against him/her, then, in the same post FOS AE and criticizes him/her for voting Anak, this just seems hypocritcal to me.
2 in his initial posts, it seems TACKY is newbie, but then magically gains insight into why the scum might want the random phase to end quickly...
By no means an FoS, just he seems less obv town to me...
1. My reasoning for the FoS and the AE vote are for two seperate things. I FoSed because I do think Anak is suspicious but AE's actions were a little too much too soon and seemed more scummy, thus my vote.
2. I've been a chronic lurker for 5+ months now on various mafia sites, including this one. I'm not a total newb, but I have a ways to go.
This is precisely why scum don't want the random phase to end too soon.
I see your point, but honestly I think it could go either way. I think as soon as the scum see something they can use and pull on, just like the thread in the sweater, they will pull. Anak just so happened to be that thread. Although reading his responses hasen't given me much confidence. I'll get to that...
I'm willing to fight with ZDS. You are trying to put words in my mouth now. I said I think ZDS is a misguided townie because I think ZDS is a misguided townie. I don't think he is scum because the person he happens to be scumhunting is me. The people I believe to be scum are the people who hop on the wagon with very little reasoning of their own. They are using the wagon as an excuse to place votes which they can hide behind. If they were town, wouldn't they try to add to the wagon because they are so sure I'm scum? They can't, because they are scum, and can't push too hard for a mislynch, otherwise the next day the town is going to go after them with torches and pitchforks.
The last bolded part really looks like WIFOM. The entire paragraph looks terrible, but this weird speculation just sticks out to me.
So the weakest link on a townie wagon isn't likely to be scum? Please explain that. Not sure where the OMGUS was on DYH, all I said about him was that he barned you and didn't back it up with much. Yes, the OMGUS on AE is actually stronger, but look at the way he is acting. I spelled it out in my previous post, but he has pushed for me as scum, without adding ANYTHING to the wagon. Fearmongering? Where? Saying I think I found scum? Then all you have been doing is fearmongering. Please actually back up your reasons for voting me.
The last paragraph only serves to confuse me. His arguments are scattered and jumpy, and that's not how a proper defense should be.
I really don't like this. AsianInvasion was in the LotR II mafia, and fell victim to RafK's trap. If my assumptions are correct, this is a scum-warning-his-buddies post. No reasons why people shouldn't answer, just a really quick WARNING sign.
Vote AsianInvasion - as I've said, I didn't like your reactions.
Ummm, there is great reason not to answer that question: It can be uber revealing way too early in the game. It's far more likely to benefit the scum than the town, IMO. I'd rather not take the chance of divulging information and losing some of our power roles in day 1. Also, could you explain your vote on Asian a little more? It just kinda came out of nowhere when I was rereading.
Forgot about this one. This is one silly post. Neither town nor scum, simply silly. How on Earth can you say someone is lurking less than 24 hours into the game?
Also, I think that post leans a little more to the scum side, although it could also be a newb getting ahead of himself. Putting posting presure on players that soon followed by votes and tales of scumminess is pretty scummy in itself.
Analysis: The thing that bothers me most about Anak is that it seems like his defense, what little there is, are a copy/paste of my arguments against AE, specifically my arguments of simple barning and poor reasoning. He keeps asking ZDS to use better reasoning and his statement that he hunts scum that jump onto wagons without reasoning. Those are very similar to my arguments on AE that he's barning without reason and such. He's attacking his attackers with my attacks: nothing here is real. The only real things I've seen so far are WIFOMy speculation and confused rambling, not townie attributes.
Lemme respond to AE, then I'll lay out my current voting decisions.
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1. Is that so? My main purpose and goal is to hunt the scum down, not go on a goose hunt looking for purpose to cards.
2. It deserves pressure, the kind of pressure that comes with a vote.
3. I strongly disagree with this statement.
4. Bring fourth these numerous scumtells.
5. Wrong
6. Somewhat contradicts what you just said. They would want the random to go on longer for more ammunition.
7. Scum love for the day to last as long as it can. They would drag it out and wait for the mod to put a deadline up and in the ensuing rush create havoc and confusion to get a mislynch and an excuse for being on a wagon.
Sums it up.
Can't be sure but you can put the pressure on and see where that goes.
This is not right. You can't hide behind a vote. That puts you out there in the spotlight. You get called on and scrutinized for votes. It leaves a history for others to look back onto. Theres no hiding behind votes.
Don't worry keep posting and I'll push even harder. I'm not pushing for a mislynch and I'm not afraid of going after someone I think is scummy. You wonder where ZDS got some of that fearmongering from?
bring it.
1. Hunting scum is an obvious main goal and I think figuring out that card in the graveyard could be helpful to finding scum. I thought that was an obvious point...
2. It does deserve pressure, and may deserve a vote, but only so long as that vote come with reason. You could have just as easily typed /barn instead of the entire post. That's what I have problems with.
3. Agree to disagree. I've already explained this argument to ZDS, but I still think scum are more likely to make the first jab at someone and take us out the random phase.
4. Baseless voting, defense of baseless voting, jumping to conclusions. Those are the biggest ones. The jumping to conclusions is calling Anak scum after a total of 2 posts for him.
5. We could fight about this all day I bet. Simply though, this argument of theory won't help us find scum. It's detrimental. The one thing I know is that scum are weak in the day, so it makes sense to me that they would want to push for night.
6. No contradiction. They see the first slip they can and run with it. They want out fast so they take the first chance they get. Again though, this is theory and the argument is becoming too jumbled to be an argument and it's turning more to WIFOM. We should drop it.
7. I like this point and it's one I haden't thought of. A deadline would cause mass confusion and probably a mislynch. That's the first good reason I've seen to defend the "scum don't push for end of day" argument.
At this point, I'll take the time to Unvote Archmage Eternal mostly because of the bolded parts of that last post and his good reasoning on the theory argument in that post. The bolds read very townie. I've been hammering him on his vote and he hasen't once tried to hide behind it. He easily could have and he could have tried to back away very easily, but he's stuck by his vote, /barning and all, and has eventually given some decent analysis on his suspect, which is all I asked for in the beginning. That doesn't strike me as scum play.
However, my recent reread of Anak's defense, coupled with ZDS's analysis reveals a little more than those first two posts, and none of itt made anything better for Anak. For some more of my voting reasons, see massive posts above. Vote Anak
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ZDS, you should actually describe why the quotes you chose prove that Anak is scum rather than let other people do the work for you. Your play has not been particularly inspiring thus far.
Now for my little post and reactions to it. As I've said already, I read part of the opening post as Staples are Scum. What I did in my post was basically asking people to claim scum, the same thing that RafK did in LotR II mafia. While it isn't as clear here as it was there, I think it was enough to get some interesting reactions...
Town power roles are just as likely to be staple cards. Stop trying to game the mod and actually analyze behavior.
I really don't like this. AsianInvasion was in the LotR II mafia, and fell victim to RafK's trap. If my assumptions are correct, this is a scum-warning-his-buddies post. No reasons why people shouldn't answer, just a really quick WARNING sign.
I did not fall for any trap in that game other than my own eagerness to please the town. lrd was the one who claimed to be a hobbit. Your assumptions are incorrect because in that game, it was obvious that anyone who assented to RafK's post was scum while in this game staples are probably on both sides.
Vote AsianInvasion - as I've said, I didn't like your reactions.
It's plain as day that your idea was bad. Think about what you were suggesting with your request for a name claim and exactly how pro-town that move is. You're guilty of exactly what cost me my head in Basic #13 as scum: Gaming the mod and role-fishing.
I don't like how quickly the Anak wagon is building based off of a couple bad posts. It definitely feels scum-driven.
I'll agree with AI that gaming the mod distracts from the town and should be avoided, granted late game modding is another topic altogether.
@tchoob, why would you vote for AI so quickly? There is little to no reason for a vote and honestly looks like a failed attempt to start a wagon, or worse yet to deflect the conversation away from TheArtistCurrentlyknowas (by the way we need to shorten that so your the artist from now on with me). Your out of the blue vote cause me to FOS tchoob.
@theartist, really after all the ranting your going to dismiss your vote? Also you have alot of backwards logic and WIFOM for my tastes. IGMEOY for further interaction.
@theartist, really after all the ranting your going to dismiss your vote? Also you have alot of backwards logic and WIFOM for my tastes. IGMEOY for further interaction.
Yeah, I feel like I gave pretty good reasoning for my back off off AE. I don't know if he's town, but his play has significantly improved since I first began attacking him and that, coupled with Anak's continual downfall, lead me to change my vote.
If you feel my logic is backward and WIFOMy, feel free to point that out in specifics. Just realize I'm not clearing AE's name, he's just not acting scummy as of late and others are.
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I posted that early this morning and was responding to your questions and some of ZDS's stuff. I accidentally deleted your quote except for the beginning brackets and left ZDS's stuff, all without me knowing it. It was accidental, but if you want the responses to your stuff, they are somewhere in that wallpost.
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Yeah, I feel like I gave pretty good reasoning for my back off off AE. I don't know if he's town, but his play has significantly improved since I first began attacking him and that, coupled with Anak's continual downfall, lead me to change my vote.
If you feel my logic is backward and WIFOMy, feel free to point that out in specifics. Just realize I'm not clearing AE's name, he's just not acting scummy as of late and others are.
I'm not saying give up your suspicions, it's just (no offense) you wall text several times (like twice) then just unvote. you do explain why, it's just sorta fustrating for pressure to be relieved so quickly admittingly not easily. as for the WIFOM, that would be in regards to alot of you opinion of how scum do/does play, which regardless if right or wrong is almost impossible to back up in frankly is a waste of time. Most obvious scum gambits are just that. easy to identify the minute they happen, but yet having also an immediate effect on the game.
I'm not saying give up your suspicions, it's just (no offense) you wall text several times (like twice) then just unvote. you do explain why, it's just sorta fustrating for pressure to be relieved so quickly admittingly not easily. as for the WIFOM, that would be in regards to alot of you opinion of how scum do/does play, which regardless if right or wrong is almost impossible to back up in frankly is a waste of time. Most obvious scum gambits are just that. easy to identify the minute they happen, but yet having also an immediate effect on the game.
Most of the wall texts weren't in reference to AE, where my vote was. The one that was dedicated to AE was also where I gave the vote up, so multiple wall posts wouldn't matter.
As for the WIFOM, I already know. I caught myself and realized that it's doing no good, so I've already decide to drop the theory entirely and focus more on what is actually happening in the game.
Any other problems?
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Most of the wall texts weren't in reference to AE, where my vote was. The one that was dedicated to AE was also where I gave the vote up, so multiple wall posts wouldn't matter.
As for the WIFOM, I already know. I caught myself and realized that it's doing no good, so I've already decide to drop the theory entirely and focus more on what is actually happening in the game.
Any other problems?
I wouldn't say they were problems, just observations. There is one problem your avatar freaks me out. but I'll guess I'll live for now, no more WIFOM or I'll have to point it out more.:D
I'm not saying give up your suspicions, it's just (no offense) you wall text several times (like twice) then just unvote. you do explain why, it's just sorta fustrating for pressure to be relieved so quickly admittingly not easily. .
I don't see an issue with an examination, a justification and an unvote all in one post. You seem to be saying that you want unjustified wagons around, no? This really isn't town talk.
as for the WIFOM, that would be in regards to alot of you opinion of how scum do/does play, which regardless if right or wrong is almost impossible to back up in frankly is a waste of time. Most obvious scum gambits are just that. easy to identify the minute they happen, but yet having also an immediate effect on the game
I disagree that scum gambits are easy to see - by definition they are attempts to solidify their town appearance, hence they must be town-like in nature. I doubt we could identify two scum who pose as townies, argue for a bit, then get pseudo-confirmed as town early on. Smart scum don't gamble on so-called "obvious scum gambits".
I don't see an issue with an examination, a justification and an unvote all in one post. You seem to be saying that you want unjustified wagons around, no? This really isn't town talk.
I disagree that scum gambits are easy to see - by definition they are attempts to solidify their town appearance, hence they must be town-like in nature. I doubt we could identify two scum who pose as townies, argue for a bit, then get pseudo-confirmed as town early on. Smart scum don't gamble on so-called "obvious scum gambits".
to first part, No i don't want unjustified wagons, hell I don't wagons at all. to much liability of a mislynch. what I'm saying is that I personally hate reading a page or two of posts for all the suspicions to be dropped. Until I said otherwise I didn't get the impression that he was still wary of AE. He clarified that, I feel less like it was all a show.
By scum gambits I was impling the several age old obvious scum moves. if you would like I can list them but it does take the fun out of noob scum from committing such that.
to first part, No i don't want unjustified wagons, hell I don't wagons at all. to much liability of a mislynch.
Aren't wagons what get scum lynched, and usually the main route to a town victory?
FoS claytonthegreat
More when I can reread all those walls of text (bah :/) but tchoob is not looking good, and for some reason I have a bad feeling about TACKY that I really can't explain...
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More when I can reread all those walls of text (bah :/) but tchoob is not looking good, and for some reason I have a bad feeling about TACKY that I really can't explain...
It's never a good sign when someone says, "I'm not done reading but I'm going to post anyway."
I disagree on both counts. I'm trying to learn as much about the current game state as I can while keeping the discussion relevant, which is something that benefits the town.
I'd prefer we stick to hunting for scum. Debating about mechanics isn't helpful.
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Everyone in this game who has yet to do so should read LotR II. I think you'll find it enlightening.
I don't have the time for that these days; if you don't mind - enlighten me on what you're getting at here?
Do you not think that this might be hypocritical considering you only have 2 posts yourself (one of which was a poor random vote)? I think it is a little early to accuse anyone of lurking, certainly to vote someone for it.
I find it problematic that you had nothing else to comment on other than that post. What your thoughts were around Anaklusmos and AsianInvasion, for example, should have been included.
You stated that I am scum. Your points against me are obvious to anyone reading the thread, so I answered them. That you are trying to entice me to anger by using your silly emotes is equally obvious. Nice try though.
This is extremely reminiscent of the post I nailed Stormblind with in Hats mafia. "Nice try though" - there's nothing townie about that response. It's a scummy way of saying "You haven't 'legitimately' caught me, yet".
Unvote, Vote: AsianInvasion
Didn't care much for your overly wordy breakdown of ZDS' vote on you, either.
I find it problematic that you had nothing else to comment on other than that post. What your thoughts were around Anaklusmos and AsianInvasion, for example, should have been included.
I did not think much of the cases brought up on either one of them at that point. I was just glad the random phase was over. If what I think about them is that important to you, I will go back over it and let you know.
Effective Immediately, joboman is replacing Teknolink.
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I shouldn't post anything, as I'm not the most sober person in the world right now, but I have to comment on this one:
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!
I hope you're not a power role. And I pray you're not a vig.
...this is just wrong, did you read his post entirely out of context?
LOL
I'm an octo-vig actually...
I've just finished reading this whole thing.
IGMEOY: Tchoob, Anak, and TACKY
Tchoob i'm srsly suspicous of. I think the Anak wagon was moving too fast. And something is up with TACKY, basically barn the "i'm getting a wierd feeling but I don't know what it is"
Unvote (if needed), Vote: AsianInvasion
I am getting scum from him.
Oh, and no, i'm not going to go and quote posts, i'm lazy.
It's funny how you missed the Anak wagon when most of the game right now is centred around it.
I didn't miss it, I've been following along. I just don't think it's a good wagon, because to me Anak isn't looking very scummy so far. As I said though, I have to reread all those walls of text.
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Anaklusmos was overly defensive as ZDS pointed out. I really hate the "I shouldn't post when {insert excuse here}". I hate it because is often scum excusing behavior they can't otherwise rationalize.
AsianInvasion is trying too hard to look townie, and is a bit too interested in what the mechanic is about. Shifty.
Welcome back.
Somebody missed LOTR II, though. Serious townie vibes from AI in this game.
I would agree, but because his comment was essentially a game theory question ("Are masons broken?") as opposed to something observable and/or immediate in this game ("What does Respect Play do?"), I'm less inclined to find his behavior scummy. I do think that the emotion behind the post was defensive, though, especially the bit about whether he's still perceived as scum.
Plenty of townies - especially newer and less confident ones - are very worried about whether they're perceived as scum.
I disagree on both counts. I'm trying to learn as much about the current game state as I can while keeping the discussion relevant, which is something that benefits the town.
It's also a way to avoid talking about scumminess. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I say leave mechanic speculation for the philosophers and let's get back to scumhunting.
[quote=AsianInvasion;/comments/10663112]Everyone in this game who has yet to do so should read LotR II. I think you'll find it enlightening.
It is interesting to see the transition between random stage and the serious business stage. With so many people in this mafia, I can see that it will be more difficult to get to know everyone. I think that the people who post very little are more likely to be trying to fly under the radar, it is also harder to get a good read on them. It is probably far too early for this but I am going to list the people who haven't done anything yet.
Ok, so I would be inclined to pick someone on this list and go for it.
Vote Ace, cause, yeah.
As for the other votes on other people, I see some questions and some early stage randomness. I will stick to my policy for now of going after lurky people.
Lurker hunting already? A policy of lurker hunting, no less?
Do you not think that this might be hypocritical considering you only have 2 posts yourself (one of which was a poor random vote)? I think it is a little early to accuse anyone of lurking, certainly to vote someone for it.
Surprisingly defensive response here, though. Reminds me a little of F451. One to watch.
You stated that I am scum. Your points against me are obvious to anyone reading the thread, so I answered them. That you are trying to entice me to anger by using your silly emotes is equally obvious. Nice try though.
Actually, this sounds a little bit more like LOTR II-you. I think he's trying to "incite" you to anger rather than "entice" you. And I wonder as to why ZDS would be trying to accomplish that. Of course, I always find ZDS scummy, inscrutable bugger that he is.
Finally, I totally think that the speculation about the graveyard card is a townie move. It's public knowledge, and Charrm says that if you see something that you think might be evidence, don't be afraid to inspect. We should be trying to solve that puzzle as it may have answers to key parts of the game.
OK - I see the townie mentality behind this line of attack, but the amount of information is so limited at this point that we would essentially just be speculating. Respect Play could let you see another player's hand - ok. What does that mean in terms of this game? We have no idea. And while we could theorize, it would be meaningless. It'd be like trying to solve a Sudoku with one square filled in. You know the rules of the game and how to solve it, but there isn't enough information.
Well, might as well go for full disclosure now...I read this as staples are scum. My role PM agrees with me.
It's a little late now, but if you do have some information to that effect, you have just squandered it. It would've been preferable to withhold it until someone had claimed, and then you might've trapped the scum.
After the last Anak post, I'm willing to barn that case. The whole thing just reads fabricated, especially "ZDS must be misguided townie" thing. The sub-text there is "I don't want to fight with you, please just go away."
Vote: Anak
See, I'm not sold. I could definitely see a townie going "ugh, they're after me. Who can I try to fight off? ZDS is too crafty and will probably be able to verbally outmaneuver me...hmm, AE's points look a little weaker, maybe I can refute those and try to build on that." This seems to be a bit of a recent trend, where "name" players trend toward accusing people of ignoring them and making that into something scummy. It's not inherently so. Sometimes townies have to pick their battles, too.
I tend to agree. What exactly are you trying to say, clayton?
It's never a good sign when someone says, "I'm not done reading but I'm going to post anyway."
Unvote (even though he did it)
oh to be misunderstood. explanation: band wagons form all time fast wagons can go either way, with that I prefer more of a general consensus of the town agreeing on a scummy player over a general band wagon. When I think of a band wagon i see a few players seeing scum tells, several barnings and of course the scum pushing a lynch. I like informed thoughout lynches.
also the wagon on anak was fast and to be honest looked bad tchoob looks in my opinion worse than anak did.
@joboman, welcome again. I'll try not to push for a joboman lynch as like i've done in the past. Hate to see countless mislynchs. though I hope you play a little more town than usual.
oh to be misunderstood. explanation: band wagons form all time fast wagons can go either way, with that I prefer more of a general consensus of the town agreeing on a scummy player over a general band wagon. When I think of a band wagon i see a few players seeing scum tells, several barnings and of course the scum pushing a lynch. I like informed thoughout lynches.
also the wagon on anak was fast and to be honest looked bad tchoob looks in my opinion worse than anak did.
@joboman, welcome again. I'll try not to push for a joboman lynch as like i've done in the past. Hate to see countless mislynchs. though I hope you play a little more town than usual.
Same with you. I'm definitley trying to be more townie. Less useless posts, more thoughts on the game and quality.
This is extremely reminiscent of the post I nailed Stormblind with in Hats mafia. "Nice try though" - there's nothing townie about that response. It's a scummy way of saying "You haven't 'legitimately' caught me, yet".
Unvote, Vote: AsianInvasion
That only applies if the "Nice try" is directed at someone I think is town. When said to scum, it's more like, "Nice try mislynching me."
Oh, and no, i'm not going to go and quote posts, i'm lazy.
As far as first posts go, this is a pretty poor example. You should go back and actually quote some posts before you vote someone because you have yet to prove your ability to get sick reads on people.
Actually, this sounds a little bit more like LOTR II-you. I think he's trying to "incite" you to anger rather than "entice" you. And I wonder as to why ZDS would be trying to accomplish that. Of course, I always find ZDS scummy, inscrutable bugger that he is.
Yeah, I realized my mistake after I posted. He almost succeeded, but then I realized that I'd just be playing into his hands.
OK - I see the townie mentality behind this line of attack, but the amount of information is so limited at this point that we would essentially just be speculating. Respect Play could let you see another player's hand - ok. What does that mean in terms of this game? We have no idea. And while we could theorize, it would be meaningless. It'd be like trying to solve a Sudoku with one square filled in. You know the rules of the game and how to solve it, but there isn't enough information.
That's a good analogy. It's probably best to forget about the card for now.
Serious-votes Anak for a defensive post.
This post in isolation is fine, though I read Anak's post as defending his ego after making a silly comment as opposed to defending his status as town.
Null.
Asian, stop speculating about the set-up with Anascumos, before I decide you are his scum-buddy.
Has already determined that Anak is scum and that I would be scum if I continued to discuss the setup.
Not only is it foolish to assume that Anak is scum simply because of a defensive post that does little to prove his alignment, but to assume that I must be scum because I am trying to learn more about the game is plain poor logic. I also don't like how the threat is spoken as if ZDS has the whole town behind him with regards to his stance against Anak.
Slightly scummy.
The beginning of the minimal-content posts.
From here on out ZDS's game plan seems to be to undermine my credibility without actually posting evidence as to why I am scum.
Slightly scummy.
What are DM staples though? I know Pot of Greed because they play it in every single episode of the anime (even when they don't play the card game), but that's all I know. I have no idea if my card is a staple or not.
Speculates on the setup with tchoob the fisherman.
So my speculation was scummy but you're free to do it as much as you wish without repercussion? This hypocrisy is jarring.
Scummy.
Continues to entertain tchoob's fishing attempt while barning DYH.
This post is another low-content gem attempting to make me look bad without actually providing evidence.
Scummy.
I agree entirely. If Anascumos is scum (which he is), you are so scum yourself.
Misreps me while stating with confidence that both Anak and I are scum.
You had no evidence against me so you started to make stuff up to fit your case. You are also still working with the poor assumption that Anak must be scum, which hasn't been proven.
Scummy.
Have I ever stated what my points against you were? I don't think so. Your response is completely disproportionate. I roll at you.
Tries to rile me up after reading my answers to his points against me.
As stated, your issues with me were obvious so there's no point in pretending that my response was uncalled for. That you still decided to post nothing useful speaks poorly of you.
Scummy.
On the other hand, what else is there to say about him?
You have no idea what you are saying.
(Scum like the random phase. They are not as much in a hurry to end the day as you appear to believe)
Please stop making up random Mafia theory if you have no idea what you are talking about. It makes you look silly.
---
OMGUSes on DYH and AE + Votes the weakest link on his wagon + Tries to get my trust + Fearmongers.
I love my vote.
---
I don't know if I'm that but I don't think so (the word "Tuner" doesn't appear anywhere in my card).
---
Shave: Bilbroxain
Completely avoids answering my post, then goes on to continue speculating on the setup.
You never actually said anything regarding my post answering your points. Obviously, you have nothing to say because you know that I'm right and you have nothing. Also, you should really stop doing what you decried so long ago.
Scummy.
He's the only guy you have a minor fighting chance against.
Quotes a bunch of quotes.
Look ma, no content! You decline to elaborate on why the quoted posts are scummy, which leads me to believe that they're supposed to be scummy because you said so.
Scummy.
It is possible to nail scum this early. It has been done before.
Replies to TACKY's concern over his quick accusations against Anak.
Well yeah, scum have been caught in their first two posts, but this is not a case where we have caught obv-scum. Anak's play has only been on the scummy side of neutral and I am not at all ready to see him lynched yet.
Slightly scummy.
I like how you really want to OMGUS me but you don't have the guts to actually do it.
I don't like how quick you are to dismiss the Anak wagon. It definitely feels scum-motivated.
Ad homs me and calls me scum without evidence...again.
The longer you do this, the more confident I am that you're just scum too lazy to actually quote posts so you just try to piss me off so I look scummy to everyone else.
Scummy.
Clayton confuses me but I'm sure he confuses himself just as much, if not more.
It's funny how you missed the Anak wagon when most of the game right now is centred around it.
Pot-shots clayton and comments on Buranri's selective reading.
It should be noted that the game is centered on a wagon that you started based on a post that wasn't worth pursuing. That you are so eagerly searching for support from other players is troubling.
Slightly scummy.
Then again few things are scummier than only posting to say you will post later. At least Buran's post isn't empty.
Replies to my comment on Buranri's post.
Pot, kettle, black. I don't think I've seen you actually post analysis with evidence all game.
Slightly scummy.
...this is just wrong, did you read his post entirely out of context?
Notices DYH's failure to read correctly.
You call him out but don't declare the mistake as scummy when he's a vet and shouldn't be making this kind of error. What gives?
Slightly scummy.
EBWoP: By the way, saying "I think you're scum." in response to me asking for evidence to support your belief that I am scum is exceptionally useless.
No, I'm not going to dig through four pages of ☺☺☺☺ to quote scummy posts. The arguments against you have been valid, and you've just been helping their case. I'm not going to pretend like i'm not just bandwaggoning, or barning here, because I am. I still think my vote is valid and you are definitley deflecting.
No, I'm not going to dig through four pages of ☺☺☺☺ to quote scummy posts. The arguments against you have been valid, and you've just been helping their case. I'm not going to pretend like i'm not just bandwaggoning, or barning here, because I am. I still think my vote is valid and you are definitley deflecting.
Uh-huh. I just posted a PBPA on ZDS highlighting that his attacks against me have nothing to them and you still think the case is good? Then you decide that my asking for you to post evidence to support your "AI is scum" theory is deflection when you've provided nothing whatsoever? Try again.
After reading back through the cases on Anaklusmos and AsianInvasion, I think that the first one is much stronger than the other.
Anaklusmos has had several decent points against him and has failed to adequately answer for them. Having said that, his wagon has moved very quickly. There is a good chance that scum is already on it. That makes me somewhat leery of voting, for now.
AsianInvasion on the other hand looks town to me. Most of the points against him (correct me if I am wrong) seem to be about him defending himself. However I could see myself acting similarly in his situation.
I find myself suspicious of tchoob, most of the things he has said do not sit right with me. I know examples would be nice, but it is getting late. I just wanted to make sure I got a post in before I go to sleep, remind me tomorrow.
The only other thing that I noticed was that joboman and claytonthegreat 's exchanged seemed forced. Something to keep an eye on.
call it forced red but I lost a game last week because I decided to put joboman's head on a pike. when I did we let the vig kill town and lost. The only reason that I did such was because 2 prior games of him driving me crazy made it personal. I'm not making that mistake again. call it forced because it sorta is but it's still necessary.
call it forced red but I lost a game last week because I decided to put joboman's head on a pike. when I did we let the vig kill town and lost. The only reason that I did such was because 2 prior games of him driving me crazy made it personal. I'm not making that mistake again. call it forced because it sorta is but it's still necessary.
No, it really is not necessary. I, for one, have a heated argument with another player (including joboman) at least once a game. I am just playing a game and take absolutely no offense to anything that is said in a game of mafia, and I certainly hope that those people feel the same way. I do not however feel that a formal apology, in the middle of a different game (as opposed to, say a PM?) is at all necessary. It makes you look (to me at least) like possible scum distancing each other.
No, it really is not necessary. I, for one, have a heated argument with another player (including joboman) at least once a game. I am just playing a game and take absolutely no offense to anything that is said in a game of mafia, and I certainly hope that those people feel the same way. I do not however feel that a formal apology, in the middle of a different game (as opposed to, say a PM?) is at all necessary. It makes you look (to me at least) like possible scum distancing each other.
a PM may have been more appropriate, but it sorta worked itself out. oh well make mental note of it.
Reread, not much to really say. A few people have expressed their interests in me and I wouldn't mind hearing them.
Other than that, Asian attacks ZDS, ZDS makes little tto no attempt to strike back, but maintains scumminess of Asian: What's new? I would mind very much if ZDS did a quick summary, not nessicarily a PBPA, of Asian. It won't distract too much if it's not a wall-post, and I'm dying to know why you read him the way you do.
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MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Asian, you realise I can't be bothered to properly attack you when I don't want you lynched today, right? I could build a case against you, with real arguments, but I'm not going to (yet) because I don't want to distract attention away from Anak, who is a lot scummier than you are. Basically, you are either scum or... not playing to the best of your potential. Anak is either scum or scum. Easy choice.
I take this part as a compliment. I always feel like my play as scum and as town is too different, apparently this is not the case. Good for me.
But I question this. I deny doing any of that this game.
I'll give you this: I did not expect this kind of response. Not a single emote and no sarcasm whatsoever. It's almost as if you flipped your inner "serious Mafia player" switch. Something to note.
As for your denial to my accusation, whenever people were bringing forth points, no matter how viable, your automatic response was to find the weakest part of their argument and declare the person's argument and opinion invalid, though not in so many words. Examples: Myself, TACKY, claytonthegreat. Yeah, you're probably better than us at this game, but I don't think you're proving it by telling us that we have no idea what we're doing while doing nothing to demonstrate how an experienced player should act.
TACKY ->
Short summary: he's very jumpy, defensive to levels never reached before, has linked himself to Anak (probable scum), and reacted violently to the mass-claim idea (a weak scum tell).
On the other hand: he could just be an underwhelming player, and the PBPA he just did on me screams "tunnel-visioning townie". His play is gradually becoming less and less similar to what it was in LOTR II, where he was scum. Last but not least, DYH's vote is possibly a counter-wagon vote.
Overall he started out extremely scummy (about as much as Anak), but now he's just "somewhat scummy". There's no way I'm voting him over Anak, and I'm definitely not going to attack him.
I'm not sure how I linked myself to Anak in your eyes, but I would hardly say that I've been excessively jumpy or defensive, since your posts have for the most part been irritating and unproductive. Also, tchoob's suggestion was hardly for a mass-claim. It was more like, "If you're a power role or scum, you should claim!" which is exactly what the scum want.
I'd argue that I'm not tunnel-visioning you. Your play is simply the scummiest of any I've seen so far. I'm not impressed with Anak's play, but at the same time he hasn't actually done anything worth lynching for. I do agree that DYH's vote is suspect, but now I'm wondering why you would say that after you had already said that you "agree with DYH who agrees with [you.]"
I find ZDS's attack on Anak interesting. Depending on how ZDS flips in Left for dead Mafia will partly determine what I think of him here.
Anak was under suspicion, and attacked the much the same way he was here, and has been acting the same way he was there, but he flipped townie.
ZDS did not lynch him there, but is pressuring Anak here, even though he knows that Anak is acting the same way he is treating it differently.
ZDS, is there any relevant information as to why you didn't lynch Anak in LFD mafia? Did he claim cop or something? I am not keeping up with that game, and last I heard he was being pressured, so I don't know if the circumstances changed.
Also, How is Anak acting differently than he did in LFD?
I have the ability to notice tells and change my mind accordingly. It's like I'm a super hero or something.
I'll answer the rest when/if I decide to attack you. Right now it isn't relevant.
I don't buy any of this. I realize you have the ability to notice and change your mind, but your are doing it over the exact same post with little to no hesitation. You first said you didn't really care about DYH's vote, just taking it as another person following you. Now, suddenly it matters against him. That's scummy.
By the way, you should know you aren't the only person in the town. If enough people find something relevant, it is. Not saying I support the Asian theory at all, I'm just saying that what's relevant or not isn't up to you. It's up to all of us.
ZDS reads a lot like someone trying harder to gain supporters for himself, not the town. His play is very selfish, in that he quickly believes he's right and anyone who disagrees is wrong, and he uses language that implies he's in some kind of control. The game isn't about control for the town, it's scum hunting. Only the scum are looking to control and garner support.
All in all, ZDS has been sketchy in my mind from the beginning. I'm on the Anak wagon because of Anak's scummy posting style, but now I'm wondering if that's not just from a scummy paintjob from ZDS. Unsure for now, will reread.
@Anak: How much mafia experience do you have? Any games for reference we can check?
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I'm willing to fight with ZDS. You are trying to put words in my mouth now. I said I think ZDS is a misguided townie because I think ZDS is a misguided townie. I don't think he is scum because the person he happens to be scumhunting is me. The people I believe to be scum are the people who hop on the wagon with very little reasoning of their own. They are using the wagon as an excuse to place votes which they can hide behind. If they were town, wouldn't they try to add to the wagon because they are so sure I'm scum? They can't, because they are scum, and can't push too hard for a mislynch, otherwise the next day the town is going to go after them with torches and pitchforks.
So the weakest link on a townie wagon isn't likely to be scum? Please explain that. Not sure where the OMGUS was on DYH, all I said about him was that he barned you and didn't back it up with much. Yes, the OMGUS on AE is actually stronger, but look at the way he is acting. I spelled it out in my previous post, but he has pushed for me as scum, without adding ANYTHING to the wagon. Fearmongering? Where? Saying I think I found scum? Then all you have been doing is fearmongering. Please actually back up your reasons for voting me.
Is that so? My main purpose and goal is to hunt the scum down, not go on a goose hunt looking for purpose to cards.
It deserves pressure, the kind of pressure that comes with a vote.
I strongly disagree with this statement.
Don't count on it.
Bring fourth these numerous scumtells.
Wrong
Somewhat contradicts what you just said. They would want the random to go on longer for more ammunition.
Scum love for the day to last as long as it can. They would drag it out and wait for the mod to put a deadline up and in the ensuing rush create havoc and confusion to get a mislynch and an excuse for being on a wagon.
Sums it up.
Can't be sure but you can put the pressure on and see where that goes.
This is not right. You can't hide behind a vote. That puts you out there in the spotlight. You get called on and scrutinized for votes. It leaves a history for others to look back onto. Theres no hiding behind votes.
Don't worry keep posting and I'll push even harder. I'm not pushing for a mislynch and I'm not afraid of going after someone I think is scummy. You wonder where ZDS got some of that fearmongering from?
bring it.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Quickly answering this before fully rereading: I don't. I thought his actions deserved explaination from the beginning, thus my FoS on him. I was far more concerned by the three people voting on him with little to no reasoning (see my arguments on AE) before he came back. I have said and still stand by my argument that I will see the defense that Anak puts up before I will be swayed, which I'm about to do. I think he might have made a dumb move early on, which gave the scum reason to lay a case on him and hope for a quick lynch. My arguments with AE and ZDS should not be misconstrued as arguments for Anak, he's still not looking very impressive in this game.
I'm gonna catch up on ZDS's further arguments against Anak, Anak's responses and the line-by-line of AE's responses, then I'll be back for more!
1. My reasoning for the FoS and the AE vote are for two seperate things. I FoSed because I do think Anak is suspicious but AE's actions were a little too much too soon and seemed more scummy, thus my vote.
2. I've been a chronic lurker for 5+ months now on various mafia sites, including this one. I'm not a total newb, but I have a ways to go.
I see your point, but honestly I think it could go either way. I think as soon as the scum see something they can use and pull on, just like the thread in the sweater, they will pull. Anak just so happened to be that thread. Although reading his responses hasen't given me much confidence. I'll get to that...
The last paragraph only serves to confuse me. His arguments are scattered and jumpy, and that's not how a proper defense should be.
Ummm, there is great reason not to answer that question: It can be uber revealing way too early in the game. It's far more likely to benefit the scum than the town, IMO. I'd rather not take the chance of divulging information and losing some of our power roles in day 1. Also, could you explain your vote on Asian a little more? It just kinda came out of nowhere when I was rereading.
Also, I think that post leans a little more to the scum side, although it could also be a newb getting ahead of himself. Putting posting presure on players that soon followed by votes and tales of scumminess is pretty scummy in itself.
Analysis: The thing that bothers me most about Anak is that it seems like his defense, what little there is, are a copy/paste of my arguments against AE, specifically my arguments of simple barning and poor reasoning. He keeps asking ZDS to use better reasoning and his statement that he hunts scum that jump onto wagons without reasoning. Those are very similar to my arguments on AE that he's barning without reason and such. He's attacking his attackers with my attacks: nothing here is real. The only real things I've seen so far are WIFOMy speculation and confused rambling, not townie attributes.
Lemme respond to AE, then I'll lay out my current voting decisions.
1. Hunting scum is an obvious main goal and I think figuring out that card in the graveyard could be helpful to finding scum. I thought that was an obvious point...
2. It does deserve pressure, and may deserve a vote, but only so long as that vote come with reason. You could have just as easily typed /barn instead of the entire post. That's what I have problems with.
3. Agree to disagree. I've already explained this argument to ZDS, but I still think scum are more likely to make the first jab at someone and take us out the random phase.
4. Baseless voting, defense of baseless voting, jumping to conclusions. Those are the biggest ones. The jumping to conclusions is calling Anak scum after a total of 2 posts for him.
5. We could fight about this all day I bet. Simply though, this argument of theory won't help us find scum. It's detrimental. The one thing I know is that scum are weak in the day, so it makes sense to me that they would want to push for night.
6. No contradiction. They see the first slip they can and run with it. They want out fast so they take the first chance they get. Again though, this is theory and the argument is becoming too jumbled to be an argument and it's turning more to WIFOM. We should drop it.
7. I like this point and it's one I haden't thought of. A deadline would cause mass confusion and probably a mislynch. That's the first good reason I've seen to defend the "scum don't push for end of day" argument.
At this point, I'll take the time to Unvote Archmage Eternal mostly because of the bolded parts of that last post and his good reasoning on the theory argument in that post. The bolds read very townie. I've been hammering him on his vote and he hasen't once tried to hide behind it. He easily could have and he could have tried to back away very easily, but he's stuck by his vote, /barning and all, and has eventually given some decent analysis on his suspect, which is all I asked for in the beginning. That doesn't strike me as scum play.
However, my recent reread of Anak's defense, coupled with ZDS's analysis reveals a little more than those first two posts, and none of itt made anything better for Anak. For some more of my voting reasons, see massive posts above. Vote Anak
It was not your actions I was referring to by mentioning that game.
This means very little without elaboration, which is unwise at this point. That you mentioned it at all bothers me.
ZDS, you should actually describe why the quotes you chose prove that Anak is scum rather than let other people do the work for you. Your play has not been particularly inspiring thus far.
Town power roles are just as likely to be staple cards. Stop trying to game the mod and actually analyze behavior.
I did not fall for any trap in that game other than my own eagerness to please the town. lrd was the one who claimed to be a hobbit. Your assumptions are incorrect because in that game, it was obvious that anyone who assented to RafK's post was scum while in this game staples are probably on both sides.
It's plain as day that your idea was bad. Think about what you were suggesting with your request for a name claim and exactly how pro-town that move is. You're guilty of exactly what cost me my head in Basic #13 as scum: Gaming the mod and role-fishing.
I don't like how quickly the Anak wagon is building based off of a couple bad posts. It definitely feels scum-driven.
@Charm: Vote Count please?
@tchoob, why would you vote for AI so quickly? There is little to no reason for a vote and honestly looks like a failed attempt to start a wagon, or worse yet to deflect the conversation away from TheArtistCurrentlyknowas (by the way we need to shorten that so your the artist from now on with me). Your out of the blue vote cause me to FOS tchoob.
@theartist, really after all the ranting your going to dismiss your vote? Also you have alot of backwards logic and WIFOM for my tastes. IGMEOY for further interaction.
Yeah, I feel like I gave pretty good reasoning for my back off off AE. I don't know if he's town, but his play has significantly improved since I first began attacking him and that, coupled with Anak's continual downfall, lead me to change my vote.
If you feel my logic is backward and WIFOMy, feel free to point that out in specifics. Just realize I'm not clearing AE's name, he's just not acting scummy as of late and others are.
Me neither.
also unvote and time to reread
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I'm not saying give up your suspicions, it's just (no offense) you wall text several times (like twice) then just unvote. you do explain why, it's just sorta fustrating for pressure to be relieved so quickly admittingly not easily. as for the WIFOM, that would be in regards to alot of you opinion of how scum do/does play, which regardless if right or wrong is almost impossible to back up in frankly is a waste of time. Most obvious scum gambits are just that. easy to identify the minute they happen, but yet having also an immediate effect on the game.
Most of the wall texts weren't in reference to AE, where my vote was. The one that was dedicated to AE was also where I gave the vote up, so multiple wall posts wouldn't matter.
As for the WIFOM, I already know. I caught myself and realized that it's doing no good, so I've already decide to drop the theory entirely and focus more on what is actually happening in the game.
Any other problems?
I wouldn't say they were problems, just observations. There is one problem your avatar freaks me out. but I'll guess I'll live for now, no more WIFOM or I'll have to point it out more.:D
I don't see an issue with an examination, a justification and an unvote all in one post. You seem to be saying that you want unjustified wagons around, no? This really isn't town talk.
I disagree that scum gambits are easy to see - by definition they are attempts to solidify their town appearance, hence they must be town-like in nature. I doubt we could identify two scum who pose as townies, argue for a bit, then get pseudo-confirmed as town early on. Smart scum don't gamble on so-called "obvious scum gambits".
Keep that razor away from my hair.
Anyway, since the mod asked nicely, I will stop with the hair.
Tchoob and AE have been acting very strange. It's nothing that I can put my finger on, but something about them feels off to me.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
to first part, No i don't want unjustified wagons, hell I don't wagons at all. to much liability of a mislynch. what I'm saying is that I personally hate reading a page or two of posts for all the suspicions to be dropped. Until I said otherwise I didn't get the impression that he was still wary of AE. He clarified that, I feel less like it was all a show.
By scum gambits I was impling the several age old obvious scum moves. if you would like I can list them but it does take the fun out of noob scum from committing such that.
Aren't wagons what get scum lynched, and usually the main route to a town victory?
FoS claytonthegreat
More when I can reread all those walls of text (bah :/) but tchoob is not looking good, and for some reason I have a bad feeling about TACKY that I really can't explain...
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
As you wish.
anaklusmos (5) - ZDS, AE, DYH, jerubbaal, TACKY
AE (1) - anaklusmos
zebi (1) - AsianInvasion
AsianInvasion (1) - tchoob
tchoob (1) - teknolink
teknolink (1) - udnam7am
ace (1) - gleng
TACKA (1) - infinis
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I tend to agree. What exactly are you trying to say, clayton?
It's never a good sign when someone says, "I'm not done reading but I'm going to post anyway."
Unvote (even though he did it)
I'd prefer we stick to hunting for scum. Debating about mechanics isn't helpful.
I don't have the time for that these days; if you don't mind - enlighten me on what you're getting at here?
I find it problematic that you had nothing else to comment on other than that post. What your thoughts were around Anaklusmos and AsianInvasion, for example, should have been included.
This is extremely reminiscent of the post I nailed Stormblind with in Hats mafia. "Nice try though" - there's nothing townie about that response. It's a scummy way of saying "You haven't 'legitimately' caught me, yet".
Unvote, Vote: AsianInvasion
Didn't care much for your overly wordy breakdown of ZDS' vote on you, either.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I did not think much of the cases brought up on either one of them at that point. I was just glad the random phase was over. If what I think about them is that important to you, I will go back over it and let you know.
smoke_Killah
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
LOL
I'm an octo-vig actually...
I've just finished reading this whole thing.
IGMEOY: Tchoob, Anak, and TACKY
Tchoob i'm srsly suspicous of. I think the Anak wagon was moving too fast. And something is up with TACKY, basically barn the "i'm getting a wierd feeling but I don't know what it is"
Unvote (if needed), Vote: AsianInvasion
I am getting scum from him.
Oh, and no, i'm not going to go and quote posts, i'm lazy.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I didn't miss it, I've been following along. I just don't think it's a good wagon, because to me Anak isn't looking very scummy so far. As I said though, I have to reread all those walls of text.
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Did you need a Super Rod for that fish?
Stop calling, stop calling, I don't wanna talk anymore.
Welcome back.
Somebody missed LOTR II, though. Serious townie vibes from AI in this game.
Plenty of townies - especially newer and less confident ones - are very worried about whether they're perceived as scum.
But then you had to go and self-meta and ruin it.
Lurker hunting already? A policy of lurker hunting, no less?
Surprisingly defensive response here, though. Reminds me a little of F451. One to watch.
Actually, this sounds a little bit more like LOTR II-you. I think he's trying to "incite" you to anger rather than "entice" you. And I wonder as to why ZDS would be trying to accomplish that. Of course, I always find ZDS scummy, inscrutable bugger that he is.
Where is this coming from?
OK - I see the townie mentality behind this line of attack, but the amount of information is so limited at this point that we would essentially just be speculating. Respect Play could let you see another player's hand - ok. What does that mean in terms of this game? We have no idea. And while we could theorize, it would be meaningless. It'd be like trying to solve a Sudoku with one square filled in. You know the rules of the game and how to solve it, but there isn't enough information.
Is that it?
It's a little late now, but if you do have some information to that effect, you have just squandered it. It would've been preferable to withhold it until someone had claimed, and then you might've trapped the scum.
See, I'm not sold. I could definitely see a townie going "ugh, they're after me. Who can I try to fight off? ZDS is too crafty and will probably be able to verbally outmaneuver me...hmm, AE's points look a little weaker, maybe I can refute those and try to build on that." This seems to be a bit of a recent trend, where "name" players trend toward accusing people of ignoring them and making that into something scummy. It's not inherently so. Sometimes townies have to pick their battles, too.
Why is TACKY not TACKA?
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
oh to be misunderstood. explanation: band wagons form all time fast wagons can go either way, with that I prefer more of a general consensus of the town agreeing on a scummy player over a general band wagon. When I think of a band wagon i see a few players seeing scum tells, several barnings and of course the scum pushing a lynch. I like informed thoughout lynches.
also the wagon on anak was fast and to be honest looked bad tchoob looks in my opinion worse than anak did.
@joboman, welcome again. I'll try not to push for a joboman lynch as like i've done in the past. Hate to see countless mislynchs. though I hope you play a little more town than usual.
Same with you. I'm definitley trying to be more townie. Less useless posts, more thoughts on the game and quality.
Truce?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I'll call truce, or I should say, clean slate for this game.
Deal.
I don't really know what to do now.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
ZDS's play in this game is very similar to his play in that game. Specifically, he is straw-manning and attacking players rather than logic.
That only applies if the "Nice try" is directed at someone I think is town. When said to scum, it's more like, "Nice try mislynching me."
Seeing as how he never voted for me, I'm going to say you weren't reading all that carefully. Not town play.
As far as first posts go, this is a pretty poor example. You should go back and actually quote some posts before you vote someone because you have yet to prove your ability to get sick reads on people.
Actually, I referenced that game so people can compare ZDS's play, but if they want to read up on me I'm not going to complain.
Yeah, I realized my mistake after I posted. He almost succeeded, but then I realized that I'd just be playing into his hands.
That's a good analogy. It's probably best to forget about the card for now.
Let's review:
Random vote.
Null.
Serious-votes Anak for a defensive post.
This post in isolation is fine, though I read Anak's post as defending his ego after making a silly comment as opposed to defending his status as town.
Null.
Has already determined that Anak is scum and that I would be scum if I continued to discuss the setup.
Not only is it foolish to assume that Anak is scum simply because of a defensive post that does little to prove his alignment, but to assume that I must be scum because I am trying to learn more about the game is plain poor logic. I also don't like how the threat is spoken as if ZDS has the whole town behind him with regards to his stance against Anak.
Slightly scummy.
The beginning of the minimal-content posts.
From here on out ZDS's game plan seems to be to undermine my credibility without actually posting evidence as to why I am scum.
Slightly scummy.
Speculates on the setup with tchoob the fisherman.
So my speculation was scummy but you're free to do it as much as you wish without repercussion? This hypocrisy is jarring.
Scummy.
Continues to entertain tchoob's fishing attempt while barning DYH.
This post is another low-content gem attempting to make me look bad without actually providing evidence.
Scummy.
Misreps me while stating with confidence that both Anak and I are scum.
You had no evidence against me so you started to make stuff up to fit your case. You are also still working with the poor assumption that Anak must be scum, which hasn't been proven.
Scummy.
Tries to rile me up after reading my answers to his points against me.
As stated, your issues with me were obvious so there's no point in pretending that my response was uncalled for. That you still decided to post nothing useful speaks poorly of you.
Scummy.
Completely avoids answering my post, then goes on to continue speculating on the setup.
You never actually said anything regarding my post answering your points. Obviously, you have nothing to say because you know that I'm right and you have nothing. Also, you should really stop doing what you decried so long ago.
Scummy.
Obv.
Null.
Quotes a bunch of quotes.
Look ma, no content! You decline to elaborate on why the quoted posts are scummy, which leads me to believe that they're supposed to be scummy because you said so.
Scummy.
Replies to TACKY's concern over his quick accusations against Anak.
Well yeah, scum have been caught in their first two posts, but this is not a case where we have caught obv-scum. Anak's play has only been on the scummy side of neutral and I am not at all ready to see him lynched yet.
Slightly scummy.
Ad homs me and calls me scum without evidence...again.
The longer you do this, the more confident I am that you're just scum too lazy to actually quote posts so you just try to piss me off so I look scummy to everyone else.
Scummy.
Pot-shots clayton and comments on Buranri's selective reading.
It should be noted that the game is centered on a wagon that you started based on a post that wasn't worth pursuing. That you are so eagerly searching for support from other players is troubling.
Slightly scummy.
Replies to my comment on Buranri's post.
Pot, kettle, black. I don't think I've seen you actually post analysis with evidence all game.
Slightly scummy.
Notices DYH's failure to read correctly.
You call him out but don't declare the mistake as scummy when he's a vet and shouldn't be making this kind of error. What gives?
Slightly scummy.
Replies to zindabad's comment about me.
And I'm not rolling my eyes at you. Keep lying, pal.
Slightly scummy.
Vote ZDS
If you're so sure, if you are lynched and scum should we clear ZDS?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
In that scenario, ZDS would almost certainly be town.
However, if I am lynched and flip scum I should have a few choice words with Charm, none of which are appropriate for a PG-13 site.
No, I'm not going to dig through four pages of ☺☺☺☺ to quote scummy posts. The arguments against you have been valid, and you've just been helping their case. I'm not going to pretend like i'm not just bandwaggoning, or barning here, because I am. I still think my vote is valid and you are definitley deflecting.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Uh-huh. I just posted a PBPA on ZDS highlighting that his attacks against me have nothing to them and you still think the case is good? Then you decide that my asking for you to post evidence to support your "AI is scum" theory is deflection when you've provided nothing whatsoever? Try again.
Anaklusmos has had several decent points against him and has failed to adequately answer for them. Having said that, his wagon has moved very quickly. There is a good chance that scum is already on it. That makes me somewhat leery of voting, for now.
AsianInvasion on the other hand looks town to me. Most of the points against him (correct me if I am wrong) seem to be about him defending himself. However I could see myself acting similarly in his situation.
I find myself suspicious of tchoob, most of the things he has said do not sit right with me. I know examples would be nice, but it is getting late. I just wanted to make sure I got a post in before I go to sleep, remind me tomorrow.
The only other thing that I noticed was that joboman and claytonthegreat 's exchanged seemed forced. Something to keep an eye on.
smoke_Killah
No, it really is not necessary. I, for one, have a heated argument with another player (including joboman) at least once a game. I am just playing a game and take absolutely no offense to anything that is said in a game of mafia, and I certainly hope that those people feel the same way. I do not however feel that a formal apology, in the middle of a different game (as opposed to, say a PM?) is at all necessary. It makes you look (to me at least) like possible scum distancing each other.
smoke_Killah
a PM may have been more appropriate, but it sorta worked itself out. oh well make mental note of it.
Don't you say this in every game we're in together?
Theres a loaded question.
Nah, I see where this was coming from, being in one game with them both.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Other than that, Asian attacks ZDS, ZDS makes little tto no attempt to strike back, but maintains scumminess of Asian: What's new? I would mind very much if ZDS did a quick summary, not nessicarily a PBPA, of Asian. It won't distract too much if it's not a wall-post, and I'm dying to know why you read him the way you do.
Why do you think is scummy?
Who are you interested in lynching?
plz answer.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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I'll give you this: I did not expect this kind of response. Not a single emote and no sarcasm whatsoever. It's almost as if you flipped your inner "serious Mafia player" switch. Something to note.
As for your denial to my accusation, whenever people were bringing forth points, no matter how viable, your automatic response was to find the weakest part of their argument and declare the person's argument and opinion invalid, though not in so many words. Examples: Myself, TACKY, claytonthegreat. Yeah, you're probably better than us at this game, but I don't think you're proving it by telling us that we have no idea what we're doing while doing nothing to demonstrate how an experienced player should act.
I'm not sure how I linked myself to Anak in your eyes, but I would hardly say that I've been excessively jumpy or defensive, since your posts have for the most part been irritating and unproductive. Also, tchoob's suggestion was hardly for a mass-claim. It was more like, "If you're a power role or scum, you should claim!" which is exactly what the scum want.
I'd argue that I'm not tunnel-visioning you. Your play is simply the scummiest of any I've seen so far. I'm not impressed with Anak's play, but at the same time he hasn't actually done anything worth lynching for. I do agree that DYH's vote is suspect, but now I'm wondering why you would say that after you had already said that you "agree with DYH who agrees with [you.]"
I'm wondering if Infinis and iPot are ever going to join us.
Good catch, I haden't even noticed.
Anak was under suspicion, and attacked the much the same way he was here, and has been acting the same way he was there, but he flipped townie.
ZDS did not lynch him there, but is pressuring Anak here, even though he knows that Anak is acting the same way he is treating it differently.
ZDS, is there any relevant information as to why you didn't lynch Anak in LFD mafia? Did he claim cop or something? I am not keeping up with that game, and last I heard he was being pressured, so I don't know if the circumstances changed.
Also, How is Anak acting differently than he did in LFD?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I don't buy any of this. I realize you have the ability to notice and change your mind, but your are doing it over the exact same post with little to no hesitation. You first said you didn't really care about DYH's vote, just taking it as another person following you. Now, suddenly it matters against him. That's scummy.
By the way, you should know you aren't the only person in the town. If enough people find something relevant, it is. Not saying I support the Asian theory at all, I'm just saying that what's relevant or not isn't up to you. It's up to all of us.
ZDS reads a lot like someone trying harder to gain supporters for himself, not the town. His play is very selfish, in that he quickly believes he's right and anyone who disagrees is wrong, and he uses language that implies he's in some kind of control. The game isn't about control for the town, it's scum hunting. Only the scum are looking to control and garner support.
All in all, ZDS has been sketchy in my mind from the beginning. I'm on the Anak wagon because of Anak's scummy posting style, but now I'm wondering if that's not just from a scummy paintjob from ZDS. Unsure for now, will reread.
@Anak: How much mafia experience do you have? Any games for reference we can check?