1. This is true for his vote on Anak, this is false for his vote on Asian. Note: Anaklusmos and AsianInvasion are not the same player and these two votes are not the same vote.
2. This is where you're wrong. Scum hunting is only one half of the battle, convincing the other townies to proceed with the lynch you want is just as important, if not more. Even if you find all the scum, it is entirely meaningless if you don't garner enough support to lynch them. If it means deciding unilaterally what is relevant and worth considering and what is not, then so be it.
1. Ah, I see. I confused those votes sorry.
2. My argument is that you place more value on the power over town aspect of the game. You've never had to try forr the scum-hunting because you picked a player early on and have stuck with it thrrough and through. Whether he's scum or not, we don't know, but you claim to have scum-proof and cases on other players, but you shrug it off as soon as you bring it up. You don't like DYH or Asian and you've thrown a few attacks my way and clayton's. If you truly believe that Anak is the lynch for the day, make it well known and move on to a list of day two suspects. If you post your suspicions of these players properly, you limit their ability to distract from the current wagon.
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You have been playing the controlling scum. Leading (some of the) less experienced townies and trying to get a quick-lynch.
I think you are definitley bussing AsianInvasion, you say that although he is scummy, we should only pursue one person. This is definite scumbuddy-bussing talk. You want to distance yourself from him, while trying to keep him from getting lynched. A townie never says that "You're scummy, but I'm attacking somebody else right now."
To be honest, Anak hasn't really done that much in my opinion. I might go back and analyze some of his posts in more detail. I will also be looking at the interaction in the last few pages between you and AsianInvasion.
I know I do, I'm just unsure that Anak isn't scummy. I wanna hear more from him. I know his responses to ZDS were pretty bad, but I had no problem with the first few posts that got him in trouble. After his failed responses, he had disappeared for a while, so it's not helping. That and ZDS's conviction so far makes me skeptical, although that may just be because it's too late to back out now.
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The thing is that ZDS is a good player. If he were town we would call what he's doing tunnelvision, but because he's good I doubt that he'd get himself into that.
- It is possible to get an accurate read just from a few posts. No matter how much you are sceptical about this, it doesn't make it any less true.
I never disputed this. Don't know why you mention it.
- Any form of distraction is bad. Do not overestimate the town's ability to go back to the main stuff, or you will be extremely disappointed.
You have said that AsianInvasion is scummy. There is no reason to not pressure him more.
- To go along with this, never ever "move on" once you have found who you want to lynch. Only take one step at a time.
A good townie is flexible, and only resolute enough in their opinions so that they can pursue a good lynch, but change their minds if somebody is acting more townie. What you say here is just totally wrong, and describes the predicament of tunnelvision perfectly.
- A disbanded town needs someone or a small group to direct it, otherwise we will only lynch the somewhat scummy players nobody has on their town lists (ie: bad players), as opposed to the very scummy players not everybody has on top of their scum lists (ie: actual scum). You cannot possibly make it any easier for scum to get as many mislynches as they want if you let everybody do their own thing uncontrolled.
Controlling people? Can you please sound more scummy?
I think you are disgruntled that I ruined you're almost successful attempt at leading the town into mis-lynch after mis-lynch.
I also find it interesting that you completely disregarded my whole scumbuddy argument. The more posts you do while disregarding it the scummier you'll be in my eyes.
I have a few questions:
If you are lynched and flip town should we lynch AsianInvasion the next day?
If you are lynched and flip town should we lynch Anukalmos the next day?
If you are lynched and flip scum should we automatically lynch AsianInvasion the next day?
If Anukalmos is town, should we automatically lynch you the next day?
Answering all of these is completley vital. Do not even try to dismiss them.
So ZDS, what qualifies you to be that person in control? As I recall, you took up that mantle all on your own right after you voted Anak and called out people, like Asian, who might have disagreed. What proof of reliability can you provide?
Not only that, but you clearly contradict yourself in that last post. You tell Jerubbal that control is good for the town, then you say control is bad if townie doesn't get it first or the town cannot act as a whole. IMO, random phase is a place where people don't normally act as a whole for a while, perfect place for a scum to do so. So what's to say you are not scum who took the chance for mis-lynch and mis-trust in the town?
Finally, I honestly cannot be swayed that it's a townie move to focus on being some kind of leader architype. There's a reason each townie has one vote and his own decisions. If we were meant to be lead, there would be one perrson in control of our votes, not individuals. The point is to catch scumminess and hope your proof is enough to sway the town, not say you catch scum and then try and sway everyone else. Let your work speak for you.
Wait, I guess it kinda has. Unvote Anak, Vote ZDS
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Why should I just listen to you, and believe you for no reason?
I agree. Has Anak acted more townie since I've voted him? No. Therefore my vote stays on him.
To go along with this, never ever "move on" once you have found who you want to lynch.
You directly contradict yourself.
Your ridiculous phobia does not make me scum. I have detailed why control is good, if you want to disagree do it with logic, and without making up facts based on pure speculation.
You think I'm the one making up facts based on pure speculation? I refer you to the first quote . You have presented no logic. I'm not going "LA LA LA U RWONG." I'm listening to your argument, and its just bull☺☺☺☺. The town works together as a collective force, listening to everyone's opinions. A townie will help lead the town, but doesn't want to control it. You have been trying to control it.
You mean the argument where you say I'm bussing Asian while not trying to get him lynched? First, you don't know what bussing means. A successful bussing results in the lynch of the bussed scum. Second, and more relevant, I have explained many many times why I am not pursuing him. Anaklusmos is the scummiest player in town right now and I am only interested in pursuing him.
Here you answer, but don't actually prove that you're not "bussing." You say how I'm not using teh word "bussing" correctly (which has no real relevance) and then say how you have explained why you aren't pursuing him. Both of these "answers" don't cut it. To the first one, I use the term "bussing" to define scum attacking scum. They could want to be proved innocent by a lynch, or just want to distance themselves from eachother. That's what I see bussing is. To the second part, you may have provided "reasons" why you don't want to pressure him further, but just because you provided reasons why doesn't mean that it makes sense not to pressure him. You are still avoiding pressuring him, and you are still saying he's scummy.
The answer to all of these is: take some time to re-read and re-consider your opinions with the new knowledge you have, then pursue and lynch the scummiest player whoever he might be.
when I said answer my questions, I meant it. A townie with your conviction would have no problem answering these. The longer you delay, the more you look scummy.
This is total distraction, and the fact that you even tried this is just... i dont' know, embarassing to yourself?
And i'll answer your questions once you answer mine.
I now have another one: why are you trying to distract me? Not answering my original "bussing" question in your first response, and not answering my other questions in my other responses?
If you truly are town, then you will answer these since the more time it takes for you not to, the more "distracted" the town gets. Don't you hate it when the town gets "distracted", after all?
ZDS would have to be a very good player to get away with being scum attacking so strongly on day one. If ZDS is scum then Anak isn't, and it would be risky for mafia to strongly attack someone (who they know is town) this early since they would then likely be in the spotlight on day two. I am inclined to side with ZDS, since his behaviour doesn't make sense to me as scum.
I am beginning to agree with the points ZDS has made, whether for better or for worse. I don't believe his actions so far are scummy. Who knows what joboman is.
Unvote Ace
Vote Anaklusmos
I do not support a quick lynch, I am sure there will still be plenty of time for discussion with only 5 votes on Anak.
Why should you listen to anybody, and believe someone who knows what he's talking about more than you?
Obvious scum move. Saying that I should "just listen to me, i'm more experienced." If somebody is making sense, and they're more experienced, then by all mean i'll listen to them, but playing the "experience card" is majorly scummy because you're trying to convince me to you're side without actually having to make sense.
Explain this because I don't get it.
In the first one you agree with the point that one should be able to change their mind given different circumstances, and in the second you clearly say how you shouldn't ever change your mind. Do you get the contradiction now?
On what grounds can you say I have presented no logic and that my argument is just bull☺☺☺☺? What logic have you presented? What does logic mean in your own little world?
Cool down bro'. I don't have to convince you of my argument. If you really don't see the cases i've presented then I have no idea how you're just answering "cases with logic that isn't there."
WHAT THE ☺☺☺☺???? So according to you it doesn't make sense to not do something you have good reasons for not doing? Should I instead do what I have no good reason for doing? HOW MUCH MORE DISHONEST CAN YOU GET, JOBOMAN????
Again, cool down bro'. The thing isn't that you may have presented "logical arguments" its that you are calling somebody scummy, then not pressuring them. Simple as that.
I have answered your questions. Take my answer and apply it to every individual question. The answer is always the same.
... NO YOU HAVEN'T. you CONTINUE to dodge my questions. If you are town there is no logical reason you can't just answer them. It would take almost 0 effort from you, and you're habitual dodging of questions is starting to get not only annoying but making you look worse and worse.
No you ☺☺☺☺ing don't. You are the one who made me read back Anak's play in L4D. Don't ignore it just because you don't like the result.
I could say the same to you. Don't ignore my questions just because you don't like the result, whatever that may be. I'd gladly answer your questions, as long as you answer mine, and I repeat that I have no idea why a townie would dodge them so much.
Pardon me for not answering a question you wouldn't have asked if you were paying ☺☺☺☺ing attention.
I obviously am paying attention, and you haven't said why you didn't respond other than "YOU SHUD HAVE KNOWN ANSWER STUPIDD", which doesn't cut it.
Stop playing dumb Joboman. I know this is not your town play.
I literally tried to think of a witty way to say how much you're OMGUSing here for about 15 minutes.
I have no idea why ZDS is getting this heated. If he think that he's town, and that I'm making such bad arguments then he should believe that the rest of the town will realize this, and so that he won't be in any pressure. I must be getting somewhere because most times I've seen ZDS as rational.
ZDS, you should know that you're not answering of my questions is just making you look worse and worse. All I ask is for you to plainly and simply state the answers to each one, without dodging or making some kind of a witty remark against me,.
ZDS would have to be a very good player to get away with being scum attacking so strongly on day one. If ZDS is scum then Anak isn't, and it would be risky for mafia to strongly attack someone (who they know is town) this early since they would then likely be in the spotlight on day two. I am inclined to side with ZDS, since his behaviour doesn't make sense to me as scum.
I am beginning to agree with the points ZDS has made, whether for better or for worse. I don't believe his actions so far are scummy. Who knows what joboman is.
Unvote Ace
Vote Anaklusmos
I do not support a quick lynch, I am sure there will still be plenty of time for discussion with only 5 votes on Anak.
ZDS would have to be a very good player to get away with being scum attacking so strongly on day one. If ZDS is scum then Anak isn't, and it would be risky for mafia to strongly attack someone (who they know is town) this early since they would then likely be in the spotlight on day two. I am inclined to side with ZDS, since his behaviour doesn't make sense to me as scum.
I am beginning to agree with the points ZDS has made, whether for better or for worse. I don't believe his actions so far are scummy. Who knows what joboman is.
Don't jump to those bold conclusions.
And it's always risky for scum to attack people they know are townies, regardless of how early they do it. That's the point of mafia!
Also, from what I understand of ZDS, he is a good player and is capable of pulling something like this off.
Also, I'm inclined to believe that someones behavior not making sense as scum is a WIFOM scum set-up. It's neither here nor there.
Lastly, could you clarify your vote for Anak, cause it kinda looks like a scum-buddy showing his support when fellow scum's wagon fails.
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Where do you get that? He says Anak hasn't acted townie so his vote stays then says once you find someone you believe is scum don't move on to anyone else but keep the pressure on. Jobo I don't see any contradiction.
I've been accused of tunnel vision before but why would I want to move on from someone I believe is scum. Tacky talks about scum wanting to move out of random and ending the day for their benefit but spreading out your accusations would be key for the scum to distract the town. Have them going in circles. ZDS is spot on in this regard and your misguided attacks don't have you looking to good in my eyes.
Originally Posted by gleng
I am beginning to agree with the points ZDS has made, whether for better or for worse. I don't believe his actions so far are scummy. Who knows what joboman is.
jobo is a massive flailer. Very much so as town. So until he can rein himself in I don't see him getting far in games he plays. He makes good points then throws them all away in ensuing posts which gets him into hot water.
And it's always risky for scum to attack people they know are townies, regardless of how early they do it. That's the point of mafia!
Also, from what I understand of ZDS, he is a good player and is capable of pulling something like this off.
Also, I'm inclined to believe that someones behavior not making sense as scum is a WIFOM scum set-up. It's neither here nor there.
Lastly, could you clarify your vote for Anak, cause it kinda looks like a scum-buddy showing his support when fellow scum's wagon fails.
My vote for Anak is based around his supposedly acting differently from before and his defensive behaviour. I admit there are heavy ZDS influences, but as I said before, I don't currently think ZDS is scum with the way he has been acting and I find myself agreeing with his posts.
You and joboman are throwing WIFOM's around, it would be better if you explained your reasoning instead of just labeling something as WIFOM.
My vote for Anak is based around his supposedly acting differently from before and his defensive behaviour. I admit there are heavy ZDS influences, but as I said before, I don't currently think ZDS is scum with the way he has been acting and I find myself agreeing with his posts.
You and joboman are throwing WIFOM's around, it would be better if you explained your reasoning instead of just labeling something as WIFOM.
Dude, WIFOM on your posts is easy peasy.
In that post where I claimed WIFOM on you, it's everything in there that is pure speculation on what scum would and wouldn't do. You say that it doesn't make sense for ZDS to be scum, because scum wouldn't do what he does. What if he knows that, and that's why he's doing it, to confuse the other players in the game. See? Your posts should be labled INSTANT WIFOM, because that's what I read.
I actually think it would be a better option for you to learn how to spot WIFOM and stop it before it starts. Kinda like Plaque or Gingivitus.
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Town tells are scum tells then?
Joke aside, the only reason we have scum tells is because scum don't always succeed in not making sense as scum. If they could only make sense as town, they would.
See, that's the problem I have with you. Your actions don't make a whole lot of sense as town. Hence, vote.
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See, that's the problem I have with you. Your actions don't make a whole lot of sense as town. Hence, vote.
What would that be? That hes fixed on Anak early on? That he does not want to pursue other lynch candidates at the moment? Or that you and jobo are accusing him of running the town?
You haven't been confusing to me, but you have always been very sketchy when it comes to town play. Defending single-small group leadership isn't townie like. Jumping on 'scum' after they only post 2-3 times (and don't act like it happens all the time), calling out others but refusing to really say anything about them, your sudden unexplained turnaround on DYH (after someone mentions Anak wagon is scum led, DYH is suddenly suspicious), Responding to arguments with smilie faces, all of those are just some of the things I've noticed that aren't townie moves.
I'm pretty sure you're scum who held on to a bad wagon too long and has no way to back out.
The one thing you haven't been is confusing, so it was easy to see some anti-town moves of yours.
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I've never seen joboman post so many useless hypotheticals, so I'm inclined to agree with ZDS that he's not playing his town game. ZDS's play since I posted my PBPA has been much more townish, though. That joboman never bothered to provide evidence against me but simply went straight after ZDS instead is telling as well.
I think Jobo has said you are being confusing, but not I.
You "convincing" hasen't been very...convincing. In the same post where you defended your leadership idea, you also admitted that scum leadership is bad. Your only way of proving you are a qualified leader is just saying you are town, something that, if I took it for granted, I would be a fool for. Your only response to 'finding scum' after 3 posts was that it happened one time. I can't buy all these things in the same package. Something is terribly wrong with your 'townie' play. I don't buy it.
I'll reread the DYH thing, it's very possible I lost track of what was going on.
and finally, :facepalm::gonk::banghead::nike::no:
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I've never seen joboman post so many useless hypotheticals, so I'm inclined to agree with ZDS that he's not playing his town game. ZDS's play since I posted my PBPA has been much more townish, though. That joboman never bothered to provide evidence against me but simply went straight after ZDS instead is telling as well.
Unvote Vote joboman
LOL.
I like how after I attack ZDS, you vote for me with basically no reason. The ally of my ally is my ally. The ally of my enemy though, is also my enemy. You basically attack me when I attack ZDS, aka. obv scumbuddy play.
There are things you can only learn from experience. Because you don't like what I say doesn't make it any less true.
You can't just say something and expect people to believe it because you're more experienced. Believe it or not, there's people in this game that aren't townie... and geuss what? They can be experienced too.
I never said you shouldn't ever change your mind. I said you should keep focusing on your main target. All you have to do is only attack the player who is at the absolute top of your scum list.
ok.
Yes you do. It's called debating.
Actually, no. I don't need to prove your scummieness to you, after all, you're then one that I think is scummy.
I really think you are only arguing this point for the sake of arguing. My answer is the same as it ever was. Why do you refuse this answer?
Explain to me why I should pressure a player who I don't want to lynch. Why should I do something that gets me farther away from my goal.
The problem here is that you think he is scummy, but don't want him to be lynched.
Yes I have. What does not satisfy you in my answer?
The fact that you haven't answered yet
I'm sick and tired of repeating the same things over and over again when clearly you don't give a damn. Apparently I'm naive enough to think you will start using your brain at some point, that's the only reason why I still answer you.
Rawr. Just because i'm attacking you has no reason for you to get your panties in a bunch. There's no real reason for you to get angry over this, cool down.
take some time to re-read and re-consider your opinions with the new knowledge you have, then pursue and lynch the scummiest player whoever he might be.
You obviously have misunderstood my questions. I am asking a yes or no question, if you are killed and flip x, is y z? Say yes or no to each of them. I am not talking about killing anyone, so please just answer each one with a simple "yes" or "no".
I'm sorry if my lines of attack are aggravating, but I'm quite sure i've caught scum here. I always have a quarrel with somebody at the beggining of a game, and I always make an argument that others dismiss as "stupid", so its dropped. At the end of the game geuss what? That person flips scum. Its happened time and time again, R_0 in F451 mafia, Exsam in Coffehouse mafia, Udnam in Left for dead mafia. Believe it or not, I have a scumdar and it's dinging 100% here.
I also like how ZDS selectively quotes me, without having to say how he didn't totally OMGUS.
Here's what he totally cut out:
Quote from ZDS »
I literally tried to think of a witty way to say how much you're OMGUSing here for about 15 minutes.
I have no idea why ZDS is getting this heated. If he think that he's town, and that I'm making such bad arguments then he should believe that the rest of the town will realize this, and so that he won't be in any pressure. I must be getting somewhere because most times I've seen ZDS as rational.
ZDS, you should know that you're not answering of my questions is just making you look worse and worse. All I ask is for you to plainly and simply state the answers to each one, without dodging or making some kind of a witty remark against me,.
I like how after I attack ZDS, you vote for me with basically no reason. The ally of my ally is my ally. The ally of my enemy though, is also my enemy. You basically attack me when I attack ZDS, aka. obv scumbuddy play.
Actually, my vote is for your astounding bad line of questioning. Townies do not force other players to dedicate themselves to a lynch based on a bunch of hypotheticals. Only scum stand to benefit from players swearing to lynch someone based on another player's alignment.
Actually, my vote is for your astounding bad line of questioning. Townies do not force other players to dedicate themselves to a lynch based on a bunch of hypotheticals. Only scum stand to benefit from players swearing to lynch someone based on another player's alignment.
You can't just say something and expect people to believe it because you're more experienced. Believe it or not, there's people in this game that aren't townie... and geuss what? They can be experienced too.
OK good post, true.
Actually, no. I don't need to prove your scummieness to you, after all, you're then one that I think is scummy.
No but the debate would be you attacking and him defending. You saying he has no logic and his argument is bull☺☺☺☺ and then brush it off after by saying you don't have to convince him by not letting him defend is not good.
The problem here is that you think he is scummy, but don't want him to be lynched.
Getting worse. How many lynches can we do in a day? Why have the town go in circles when we can focus on one player and dissect that wagon accordingly?
The fact that you haven't answered yet
Going in circles again. reminds me of the argument with cyouni in Guildpact.
Rawr. Just because i'm attacking you has no reason for you to get your panties in a bunch. There's no real reason for you to get angry over this, cool down.
A little smearing.
You obviously have misunderstood my questions. I am asking a yes or no question, if you are killed and flip x, is y z? Say yes or no to each of them. I am not talking about killing anyone, so please just answer each one with a simple "yes" or "no".
Why ask for his opinion when above you say he cant expect people to just believe him.
Here's something I don't get with ZDS's chase with Asian: He has very few posts to base his Anak vote on, but is set that Anak is far more scummy than Asian. However, Asian has plenty more posts that ZDS has criticized for several more reasons, yet he's not the best scum play. It seems contradictory.
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Has he been in very many games? I did think his play got a lot scummier when he started being accused, but that could just be him being a new player and getting flustered. I wish he would come back, it would help to understand the full situation IMO.
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I'm not playing off of those at all. My case isn't based around that he hasn't answered them.
But you asked those bad questions, and that in and of itself is scummy.
You can go on and on about how scummy I'm being, but until you actually show proof I can't address your attack. I can't defend against what isn't there.
But you asked those bad questions, and that in and of itself is scummy.
You can go on and on about how scummy I'm being, but until you actually show proof I can't address your attack. I can't defend against what isn't there.
proof? PROOF?!?
really now? In the game of mafia we have no actual proof. We (the town) are the uninformed majority. We don't know that the person who claimed octo-voting triple-vig is a liar, we don't even know if he was scum or a death miller, we don't know anything.
really now? In the game of mafia we have no actual proof. We (the town) are the uninformed majority. We don't know that the person who claimed octo-voting triple-vig is a liar, we don't even know if he was scum or a death miller, we don't know anything.
Ahhh, this is weak. You know what he means, PBPA or something like that, bring up a case. Obviously nothing is set in stone in a mafia game.
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Yeah, my biggest thing against ZDS is that he's tunnelvisioning so hard on Anak, that he can't see AI, or won't see him as scummy
Or won't distract the town and splitting them between lynch candidates. I believe he does see him as scummy. Why can't you see that its a better idea to concentrate pressure on a single player than spread it across the board?
Anak hasn't really been scummy to me.
Has he really been on since the pressure started piling on?
1. Or won't distract the town and splitting them between lynch candidates. I believe he does see him as scummy. Why can't you see that its a better idea to concentrate pressure on a single player than spread it across the board?
2. Has he really been on since the pressure started piling on?
There is a simple answer that I've brought up before, but nobody will listen. If he feels both are scum, give the case on Asian, remind others of Anak's scumminess and then suggest the best play for the day, get a consensus frrom other players. If they are both scummy, let people know about it, along with all the how's and why's. There's no reason not to call out scumminess when you see it, and if you fear distracting your own case, apply some simple problem solving.
Unless he really doesn't want to cause ZDS is scum.
2. Anak was here shortly afterward to defend himself poorly and seem more scummy, but as I said, that could also be nerves. His absence doesn't help him, and I hope to see him by tomorrow at least.
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I'm two and a half pages behind due to a college visit. During which I've had about 7 hours of sleep over two days. I'll get sleep, and make a post tommorrow night, k?
Or won't distract the town and splitting them between lynch candidates. I believe he does see him as scummy. Why can't you see that its a better idea to concentrate pressure on a single player than spread it across the board?
Has he really been on since the pressure started piling on?
has anyone ever just dosed off while sitting at there computer to wake up an hour or so later and think "damn that's the worst bed ever"
so with the topics on hand. I looked over the case on anak, and I missed several things that after being pointed out look bad. He deflected, he came off as just general un-town, along with some OMGUS. What makes me lost leery of him is the fact that he disappears while tacky and joboman defend him. I believe it to be poor form. A little more pressure may cause him to stop by. vote anak
@joboman, your failing at being non-scummy town. please don't make me push a lynch on you without getting off the same page that I declared truce. You want to call people scum fine, but don't be lazy, build a case.
I'm going to put together a little story about what has happened this game.
It starts off with a random post:
So, you are still assuming I'm scum huh?
Quote from Anak »
Not sure why I thought it would be too powerful, because it wouldn't. For some reason, in my very tired, early morning mind, I thought that possibly a scum and town would learn of each other. I know, that makes no sense. I'm going to quit posting in the early morning lol.
It's pretty obvious this has no meaning. But then, the plot thickens!
"
Quote from ZDS »
The post above is defensive. Scuuuuuuuum.
Unvote, Vote: Anaklusmos
__________________
"
ZDS immediatley says! I think we can all agree, that after two posts, and neither of them defensive ZDS is obviously still randoming. But thats not all, the story continues:
Quote from AsianInvasion »
While setups including a scum mason is not unheard of, it's one bastard of a mod who'd actually put that into a game, especially a Normal.
AsianInvasion heroically speculates on the set-up!!! Nobody cares!!!
Quote from ZDS »
Asian, stop speculating about the set-up with Anascumos, before I decide you are his scum-buddy.
Yaaay! Another random. note how randomlly ZDS is speaking.
Quote from DYH »
Anaklusmos was overly defensive as ZDS pointed out. I really hate the "I shouldn't post when {insert excuse here}". I hate it because is often scum excusing behavior they can't otherwise rationalize.
Vote: Anaklusmos761
BAM! Another vote! Who knew? DYH is actually attacking Anak, as opposed to ZDS's actions before which were just randoming.
Quote from ZDS »
I agree entirely. If Anascumos is scum (which he is), you are so scum yourself.
This is just further cementing the joking attitude of ZDS's votes.
You're doing a great job of backing them for me.
THIS is the important quote. RIGHT HERE he goes from randoming to actually attacking Anak. Subtle scum is subtle.
It is possible to nail scum this early. It has been done before.
__________________
While not directly backing up his argument, ZDS supports what he's saying.
Basically i'm tired so this isn't coming out that well, but what i'm trying to say here is by looking at these quotes you can see the gradual progression in ZDS's attitude. He stats off totally randoming, but as people get more interested in the bandwagon he becomes more and more serious. i'd also like to note how when asked "if he were being serious", all he replied was with " :isthatso " and it was then dismissed. ZDS realized that he had an actual chance at a mis-lynch, so then tried to pursue it once it got going. If worse came to worse later he could just blame it as "randoming" (this would be if he dropped the case later.)
ZDS and AI's connection seems weaker the more I read. AI just seems a lot less scummy.
I am still eagerly waiting ZDS's "yes" or "no" responses to my questions. I'd also like to note how ZDS OMGUS'd and he selectivley quoted me.
I am still eagerly waiting ZDS's "yes" or "no" responses to my questions. I'd also like to note how ZDS OMGUS'd and he selectivley quoted me.
Actually, he did answer your gamut of hypothetical questions in a way that actually makes sense. Specifically, answering with a simple "yes" or "no" is incorrect.
Did I just lead the horse to water and make it drink?
Now you see why we use quotes to back up our attacks; without evidence we have nothing.
Actually, he did answer your gamut of hypothetical questions in a way that actually makes sense. Specifically, answering with a simple "yes" or "no" is incorrect.
but to answer them as yes or no, would not truly answer the question. it would on sedate your morbid interest. and in all honesty would not do the game any justice.
but to answer them as yes or no, would not truly answer the question. it would on sedate your morbid interest. and in all honesty would not do the game any justice.
Big words.
It actually would help me quite a bit detirmining things, although I have other things to go on.
what do you want joboman, for someone to say "if anak is town, we lynch asian next" the question now had no pretense on the next day. good lord would you keep to the question if the hammer was "die townie *****!!!!". Everything changes with each post and each lynch. why ask the questions. he already gave you an idea of who his other scum hints are. hell if your curious.
1.obviously my vote
2. tchoob
3. tacky, something unsettling......
if anak conviences me that he is town, I'll build case on the next. but that doesn't mean that the next poster doesn't change that list. your questions simply have no relevance at this moment.
1. Ah, I see. I confused those votes sorry.
2. My argument is that you place more value on the power over town aspect of the game. You've never had to try forr the scum-hunting because you picked a player early on and have stuck with it thrrough and through. Whether he's scum or not, we don't know, but you claim to have scum-proof and cases on other players, but you shrug it off as soon as you bring it up. You don't like DYH or Asian and you've thrown a few attacks my way and clayton's. If you truly believe that Anak is the lynch for the day, make it well known and move on to a list of day two suspects. If you post your suspicions of these players properly, you limit their ability to distract from the current wagon.
You have been playing the controlling scum. Leading (some of the) less experienced townies and trying to get a quick-lynch.
I think you are definitley bussing AsianInvasion, you say that although he is scummy, we should only pursue one person. This is definite scumbuddy-bussing talk. You want to distance yourself from him, while trying to keep him from getting lynched. A townie never says that "You're scummy, but I'm attacking somebody else right now."
To be honest, Anak hasn't really done that much in my opinion. I might go back and analyze some of his posts in more detail. I will also be looking at the interaction in the last few pages between you and AsianInvasion.
Who else agrees with my theory?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I know I do, I'm just unsure that Anak isn't scummy. I wanna hear more from him. I know his responses to ZDS were pretty bad, but I had no problem with the first few posts that got him in trouble. After his failed responses, he had disappeared for a while, so it's not helping. That and ZDS's conviction so far makes me skeptical, although that may just be because it's too late to back out now.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Anak has dissapeared and definitely needs to post/be prodded.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
My blog.
I never disputed this. Don't know why you mention it.
You have said that AsianInvasion is scummy. There is no reason to not pressure him more.
A good townie is flexible, and only resolute enough in their opinions so that they can pursue a good lynch, but change their minds if somebody is acting more townie. What you say here is just totally wrong, and describes the predicament of tunnelvision perfectly.
Controlling people? Can you please sound more scummy?
I think you are disgruntled that I ruined you're almost successful attempt at leading the town into mis-lynch after mis-lynch.
I also find it interesting that you completely disregarded my whole scumbuddy argument. The more posts you do while disregarding it the scummier you'll be in my eyes.
I have a few questions:
If you are lynched and flip town should we lynch AsianInvasion the next day?
If you are lynched and flip town should we lynch Anukalmos the next day?
If you are lynched and flip scum should we automatically lynch AsianInvasion the next day?
If Anukalmos is town, should we automatically lynch you the next day?
Answering all of these is completley vital. Do not even try to dismiss them.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Someone like the scum?
Not only that, but you clearly contradict yourself in that last post. You tell Jerubbal that control is good for the town, then you say control is bad if townie doesn't get it first or the town cannot act as a whole. IMO, random phase is a place where people don't normally act as a whole for a while, perfect place for a scum to do so. So what's to say you are not scum who took the chance for mis-lynch and mis-trust in the town?
Finally, I honestly cannot be swayed that it's a townie move to focus on being some kind of leader architype. There's a reason each townie has one vote and his own decisions. If we were meant to be lead, there would be one perrson in control of our votes, not individuals. The point is to catch scumminess and hope your proof is enough to sway the town, not say you catch scum and then try and sway everyone else. Let your work speak for you.
Wait, I guess it kinda has. Unvote Anak, Vote ZDS
Why should I just listen to you, and believe you for no reason?
You directly contradict yourself.
You think I'm the one making up facts based on pure speculation? I refer you to the first quote . You have presented no logic. I'm not going "LA LA LA U RWONG." I'm listening to your argument, and its just bull☺☺☺☺. The town works together as a collective force, listening to everyone's opinions. A townie will help lead the town, but doesn't want to control it. You have been trying to control it.
Here you answer, but don't actually prove that you're not "bussing." You say how I'm not using teh word "bussing" correctly (which has no real relevance) and then say how you have explained why you aren't pursuing him. Both of these "answers" don't cut it. To the first one, I use the term "bussing" to define scum attacking scum. They could want to be proved innocent by a lynch, or just want to distance themselves from eachother. That's what I see bussing is. To the second part, you may have provided "reasons" why you don't want to pressure him further, but just because you provided reasons why doesn't mean that it makes sense not to pressure him. You are still avoiding pressuring him, and you are still saying he's scummy.
when I said answer my questions, I meant it. A townie with your conviction would have no problem answering these. The longer you delay, the more you look scummy.
This is total distraction, and the fact that you even tried this is just... i dont' know, embarassing to yourself?
And i'll answer your questions once you answer mine.
I now have another one: why are you trying to distract me? Not answering my original "bussing" question in your first response, and not answering my other questions in my other responses?
If you truly are town, then you will answer these since the more time it takes for you not to, the more "distracted" the town gets. Don't you hate it when the town gets "distracted", after all?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Unvote, Vote: ZDS
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I am beginning to agree with the points ZDS has made, whether for better or for worse. I don't believe his actions so far are scummy. Who knows what joboman is.
Unvote Ace
Vote Anaklusmos
I do not support a quick lynch, I am sure there will still be plenty of time for discussion with only 5 votes on Anak.
Obvious scum move. Saying that I should "just listen to me, i'm more experienced." If somebody is making sense, and they're more experienced, then by all mean i'll listen to them, but playing the "experience card" is majorly scummy because you're trying to convince me to you're side without actually having to make sense.
In the first one you agree with the point that one should be able to change their mind given different circumstances, and in the second you clearly say how you shouldn't ever change your mind. Do you get the contradiction now?
Cool down bro'. I don't have to convince you of my argument. If you really don't see the cases i've presented then I have no idea how you're just answering "cases with logic that isn't there."
Again, cool down bro'. The thing isn't that you may have presented "logical arguments" its that you are calling somebody scummy, then not pressuring them. Simple as that.
... NO YOU HAVEN'T. you CONTINUE to dodge my questions. If you are town there is no logical reason you can't just answer them. It would take almost 0 effort from you, and you're habitual dodging of questions is starting to get not only annoying but making you look worse and worse.
I could say the same to you. Don't ignore my questions just because you don't like the result, whatever that may be. I'd gladly answer your questions, as long as you answer mine, and I repeat that I have no idea why a townie would dodge them so much.
I obviously am paying attention, and you haven't said why you didn't respond other than "YOU SHUD HAVE KNOWN ANSWER STUPIDD", which doesn't cut it.
I literally tried to think of a witty way to say how much you're OMGUSing here for about 15 minutes.
I have no idea why ZDS is getting this heated. If he think that he's town, and that I'm making such bad arguments then he should believe that the rest of the town will realize this, and so that he won't be in any pressure. I must be getting somewhere because most times I've seen ZDS as rational.
ZDS, you should know that you're not answering of my questions is just making you look worse and worse. All I ask is for you to plainly and simply state the answers to each one, without dodging or making some kind of a witty remark against me,.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
PLEASE look up WIFOM.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Don't jump to those bold conclusions.
And it's always risky for scum to attack people they know are townies, regardless of how early they do it. That's the point of mafia!
Also, from what I understand of ZDS, he is a good player and is capable of pulling something like this off.
Also, I'm inclined to believe that someones behavior not making sense as scum is a WIFOM scum set-up. It's neither here nor there.
Lastly, could you clarify your vote for Anak, cause it kinda looks like a scum-buddy showing his support when fellow scum's wagon fails.
Where do you get that? He says Anak hasn't acted townie so his vote stays then says once you find someone you believe is scum don't move on to anyone else but keep the pressure on. Jobo I don't see any contradiction.
I've been accused of tunnel vision before but why would I want to move on from someone I believe is scum. Tacky talks about scum wanting to move out of random and ending the day for their benefit but spreading out your accusations would be key for the scum to distract the town. Have them going in circles. ZDS is spot on in this regard and your misguided attacks don't have you looking to good in my eyes.
jobo is a massive flailer. Very much so as town. So until he can rein himself in I don't see him getting far in games he plays. He makes good points then throws them all away in ensuing posts which gets him into hot water.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
My vote for Anak is based around his supposedly acting differently from before and his defensive behaviour. I admit there are heavy ZDS influences, but as I said before, I don't currently think ZDS is scum with the way he has been acting and I find myself agreeing with his posts.
You and joboman are throwing WIFOM's around, it would be better if you explained your reasoning instead of just labeling something as WIFOM.
Dude, WIFOM on your posts is easy peasy.
In that post where I claimed WIFOM on you, it's everything in there that is pure speculation on what scum would and wouldn't do. You say that it doesn't make sense for ZDS to be scum, because scum wouldn't do what he does. What if he knows that, and that's why he's doing it, to confuse the other players in the game. See? Your posts should be labled INSTANT WIFOM, because that's what I read.
I actually think it would be a better option for you to learn how to spot WIFOM and stop it before it starts. Kinda like Plaque or Gingivitus.
See, that's the problem I have with you. Your actions don't make a whole lot of sense as town. Hence, vote.
What would that be? That hes fixed on Anak early on? That he does not want to pursue other lynch candidates at the moment? Or that you and jobo are accusing him of running the town?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I'm pretty sure you're scum who held on to a bad wagon too long and has no way to back out.
The one thing you haven't been is confusing, so it was easy to see some anti-town moves of yours.
I've never seen joboman post so many useless hypotheticals, so I'm inclined to agree with ZDS that he's not playing his town game. ZDS's play since I posted my PBPA has been much more townish, though. That joboman never bothered to provide evidence against me but simply went straight after ZDS instead is telling as well.
Unvote
Vote joboman
You "convincing" hasen't been very...convincing. In the same post where you defended your leadership idea, you also admitted that scum leadership is bad. Your only way of proving you are a qualified leader is just saying you are town, something that, if I took it for granted, I would be a fool for. Your only response to 'finding scum' after 3 posts was that it happened one time. I can't buy all these things in the same package. Something is terribly wrong with your 'townie' play. I don't buy it.
I'll reread the DYH thing, it's very possible I lost track of what was going on.
and finally, :facepalm::gonk::banghead::nike::no:
LOL.
I like how after I attack ZDS, you vote for me with basically no reason. The ally of my ally is my ally. The ally of my enemy though, is also my enemy. You basically attack me when I attack ZDS, aka. obv scumbuddy play.
You can't just say something and expect people to believe it because you're more experienced. Believe it or not, there's people in this game that aren't townie... and geuss what? They can be experienced too.
ok.
Actually, no. I don't need to prove your scummieness to you, after all, you're then one that I think is scummy.
The problem here is that you think he is scummy, but don't want him to be lynched.
The fact that you haven't answered yet
Rawr. Just because i'm attacking you has no reason for you to get your panties in a bunch. There's no real reason for you to get angry over this, cool down.
You obviously have misunderstood my questions. I am asking a yes or no question, if you are killed and flip x, is y z? Say yes or no to each of them. I am not talking about killing anyone, so please just answer each one with a simple "yes" or "no".
I'm sorry if my lines of attack are aggravating, but I'm quite sure i've caught scum here. I always have a quarrel with somebody at the beggining of a game, and I always make an argument that others dismiss as "stupid", so its dropped. At the end of the game geuss what? That person flips scum. Its happened time and time again, R_0 in F451 mafia, Exsam in Coffehouse mafia, Udnam in Left for dead mafia. Believe it or not, I have a scumdar and it's dinging 100% here.
I also like how ZDS selectively quotes me, without having to say how he didn't totally OMGUS.
Here's what he totally cut out:
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Actually, my vote is for your astounding bad line of questioning. Townies do not force other players to dedicate themselves to a lynch based on a bunch of hypotheticals. Only scum stand to benefit from players swearing to lynch someone based on another player's alignment.
What do you mean "hypotheticals?"
I'm basing my vote off of his scummy play.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Asian's referencing all those bolded questions that ZDS has been avoiding, I think.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
OK good post, true.
No but the debate would be you attacking and him defending. You saying he has no logic and his argument is bull☺☺☺☺ and then brush it off after by saying you don't have to convince him by not letting him defend is not good.
Getting worse. How many lynches can we do in a day? Why have the town go in circles when we can focus on one player and dissect that wagon accordingly?
Going in circles again. reminds me of the argument with cyouni in Guildpact.
A little smearing.
Why ask for his opinion when above you say he cant expect people to just believe him.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Anak hasn't really been scummy to me.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Has he been in very many games? I did think his play got a lot scummier when he started being accused, but that could just be him being a new player and getting flustered. I wish he would come back, it would help to understand the full situation IMO.
But you asked those bad questions, and that in and of itself is scummy.
You can go on and on about how scummy I'm being, but until you actually show proof I can't address your attack. I can't defend against what isn't there.
proof? PROOF?!?
really now? In the game of mafia we have no actual proof. We (the town) are the uninformed majority. We don't know that the person who claimed octo-voting triple-vig is a liar, we don't even know if he was scum or a death miller, we don't know anything.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Ahhh, this is weak. You know what he means, PBPA or something like that, bring up a case. Obviously nothing is set in stone in a mafia game.
Or won't distract the town and splitting them between lynch candidates. I believe he does see him as scummy. Why can't you see that its a better idea to concentrate pressure on a single player than spread it across the board?
Has he really been on since the pressure started piling on?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
There is a simple answer that I've brought up before, but nobody will listen. If he feels both are scum, give the case on Asian, remind others of Anak's scumminess and then suggest the best play for the day, get a consensus frrom other players. If they are both scummy, let people know about it, along with all the how's and why's. There's no reason not to call out scumminess when you see it, and if you fear distracting your own case, apply some simple problem solving.
Unless he really doesn't want to cause ZDS is scum.
2. Anak was here shortly afterward to defend himself poorly and seem more scummy, but as I said, that could also be nerves. His absence doesn't help him, and I hope to see him by tomorrow at least.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
has anyone ever just dosed off while sitting at there computer to wake up an hour or so later and think "damn that's the worst bed ever"
so with the topics on hand. I looked over the case on anak, and I missed several things that after being pointed out look bad. He deflected, he came off as just general un-town, along with some OMGUS. What makes me lost leery of him is the fact that he disappears while tacky and joboman defend him. I believe it to be poor form. A little more pressure may cause him to stop by. vote anak
@joboman, your failing at being non-scummy town. please don't make me push a lynch on you without getting off the same page that I declared truce. You want to call people scum fine, but don't be lazy, build a case.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
It starts off with a random post:
So, you are still assuming I'm scum huh?
It's pretty obvious this has no meaning. But then, the plot thickens!
" "
ZDS immediatley says! I think we can all agree, that after two posts, and neither of them defensive ZDS is obviously still randoming. But thats not all, the story continues:
AsianInvasion heroically speculates on the set-up!!! Nobody cares!!!
Yaaay! Another random. note how randomlly ZDS is speaking.
BAM! Another vote! Who knew? DYH is actually attacking Anak, as opposed to ZDS's actions before which were just randoming.
This is just further cementing the joking attitude of ZDS's votes.
THIS is the important quote. RIGHT HERE he goes from randoming to actually attacking Anak. Subtle scum is subtle.
While not directly backing up his argument, ZDS supports what he's saying.
Basically i'm tired so this isn't coming out that well, but what i'm trying to say here is by looking at these quotes you can see the gradual progression in ZDS's attitude. He stats off totally randoming, but as people get more interested in the bandwagon he becomes more and more serious. i'd also like to note how when asked "if he were being serious", all he replied was with " :isthatso " and it was then dismissed. ZDS realized that he had an actual chance at a mis-lynch, so then tried to pursue it once it got going. If worse came to worse later he could just blame it as "randoming" (this would be if he dropped the case later.)
ZDS and AI's connection seems weaker the more I read. AI just seems a lot less scummy.
I am still eagerly waiting ZDS's "yes" or "no" responses to my questions. I'd also like to note how ZDS OMGUS'd and he selectivley quoted me.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Did I just lead the horse to water and make it drink?
Now you see why we use quotes to back up our attacks; without evidence we have nothing.
Actually, he did answer your gamut of hypothetical questions in a way that actually makes sense. Specifically, answering with a simple "yes" or "no" is incorrect.
No... They're yes or no questions. YES.. or NO
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
but to answer them as yes or no, would not truly answer the question. it would on sedate your morbid interest. and in all honesty would not do the game any justice.
Big words.
It actually would help me quite a bit detirmining things, although I have other things to go on.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
This reeks of "Fine, i'll build a case if I have to."
1.obviously my vote
2. tchoob
3. tacky, something unsettling......
if anak conviences me that he is town, I'll build case on the next. but that doesn't mean that the next poster doesn't change that list. your questions simply have no relevance at this moment.
ace didn't you mod a game with joboman in it. you know what that means.;)
Ace reaks of lurk.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)