Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
That last post by Guardman doesn't sit well with me. Combination backpedaling and stating that public info re: connections is solely for the town's benefit.
Vote Guardman
Actually I backpeddled because Niv confirmed that there are reasons not to connect with certain individuals.
I would like to know how knowing which people to and not connect with are to any value for the scum when:
1. We said we are going to make all connections known via the host telling us he is connected. Which means only scum hosts have reasons to hide it. It is for the town's benefit to know who to and not to connect with.
2. Could you explain to me how the info helps the scum in any way given how we are going to approach this thing. Having a list of people who nobody should connect with does nothing for the scum as far as I can tell and everything for the town. In fact I would like to propose a mass claim of sorts where anybody with a negative connection ability comes out and tells us.
@desC: I think we should not become hosts/symbiotes today because we simply don't have enough info to go on to make informed decisions. I would feel much better about making hosts/symbiotes after we have info from a lynch and one night of night actions instead of blindly trying to do it today.
Hmm... I seem to get into all the fun games with the crazy game mechanics (ala Manipulator).
I think for today, a good rule would be to have no one become a host. I just don't think we have enough info for that to even be a reasonable suggestion at this point. But I think that once we get some more info and are able to tell who we believe is scum and who we believe is town, we should try to power up the ones we think are town. And to that end I am finding Axelrod's no symbiosis ever slightly disturbing, and unless he has a good reason for doing it, I am not liking him currently.
Also I will agree with Cantripmancer, why do you, Axelrod, not want to ever become a symbiote?
The way he responded to my question seemed to me to basically said: Go stuff yourself I am not answering you ever. Which lead me to believe that it was more like he was taking the stance of not wanting to power anybody ever because he didn't want to power them, not because he shouldn't.
I can't speak for Axel, but, that post you made was hella scummy. you go from making the Absolute statement that noöne should make a connection today, which is crazy, people will be behaviourly town by the end of the day. people will be behaviourly scummy. we should be makeing connections by the end of the day. That statement was just bad and fearmongering. it read as though you were trying to keep the town from having access to additional power roles today.
Also as for fishing for info, it doesn't give the scum any edge to know if their are terrans have anti-symbiot abilities since hosts have to accept the connections anyways. Therefore it is only to the towns advantage to know about these connection abilities, so that when we formulate plans and stuff we understand what we can and cant do.
[5c] Terran characters may act as Hosts for a Connection, but unlike Garamans, are unable to voluntarily break the Connection. However, if they are acting as a Host and a second Connection request comes in, they may switch to this new Connection.
i intrept this as that they connot break the connection once forged, but they can still reject one. @ROBROY:
Can you please confirm this interaction?
Thanks in Advance
-Niv
Continuing on so, sure, some terrans may have connection related abilities, but it is entirely up to their discretion as to whether or on it is pertinent to disclose any information whatsoever. I'd rather everyone be guessing than the scum having the knowledge as they can, by design, generally coördinate better than the town. (Manipulator Mafia Aside :P) and any information like that, at least in the early game would be more likley to help the scum, but that's just me thinking.
Actually I backpeddled because Niv confirmed that there are reasons not to connect with certain individuals.
What makes the information that I gave you different than Axel saying he doesn't want to be involved in a connection, ever? dosen't that Imply the same thing, just using different words.
I would like to know how knowing which people to and not connect with are to any value for the scum when:
1. We said we are going to make all connections known via the host telling us he is connected. Which means only scum hosts have reasons to hide it. It is for the town's benefit to know who to and not to connect with.
2. Could you explain to me how the info helps the scum in any way given how we are going to approach this thing. Having a list of people who nobody should connect with does nothing for the scum as far as I can tell and everything for the town. In fact I would like to propose a mass claim of sorts where anybody with a negative connection ability comes out and tells us.
While yes I'm saying it's dangerous to connect to me in some way, shape, or form, I'm not saying any mechanics, and will not until it is necessary. Axel had already said/Clearly implied that it was dangeros to connect to him. why question him on the details? it's like asking someone to roleclaim for no reason other than curiosity. it's stupid. there is no need for ANYONE to know the informaton, unless Axel (or I guess myself) think it's relevant. in which I'd just say it. unless you'd like to say that you didn't pick up on what Axel implied, but I wouldn't believe that regardless.
Are you kidding me. 1 Day has been on for less than a day, a good mod will proved an early votecount when possible, and if he doesn't he's brobabally been hit by a bus, or something. While nowhere near scummy, this is just rude.
Your opinion on hosting today? For aggressively doing it, or for not doing it at all? (And why?)
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I had no idea what Axel was implying. I just thought he didn't want anyone to connect with him either out of paranoia or because he didn't want to power up a townie because he was scum. And he didn't sound paranoid to me. Did it cross my mind that he had some kind of connection ability, sure but I didn't know if they even exist and the way he stated it made it seem more like he was being stubborn without reason than not wanting to connect with reason.
Also it doesn't matter if Terrans have a choice because if they have some sort of negative consequence it encourages lone vigilantism behavior which usually ends up bad for the town.
I stand by my statement that nobody should connect today. The only caveat I will add to that is when there is a situation where we as a town feel it is best to have a person powered.
Also I wasn't being rude. There have been a lot of votes being cast on me today and I want to know officially where I stand.
I had no idea what Axel was implying. I just thought he didn't want anyone to connect with him either out of paranoia or because he didn't want to power up a townie because he was scum. And he didn't sound paranoid to me. Did it cross my mind that he had some kind of connection ability, sure but I didn't know if they even exist and the way he stated it made it seem more like he was being stubborn without reason than not wanting to connect with reason.
I guess this makes sense. I may have just immediately assumed Axel had some negative effect to forming a connection, because there is a negative effect to forming a connection to me. also, the Axel fishing was not the only thing wrong with your initial post. there was fearmongering over making connections as a whole and this:
And to that end I am finding Axelrod's no symbiosis ever slightly disturbing, and unless he has a good reason for doing it, I am not liking him currently.
your initial suspicion was definitely jumping the gun and baseless. had you just posted the question itself, you probabally would have ignored along with cantripmacer. but in posting the whole post, it was like a comedy of errors; the whole is greater than the sum of the parts here.
Also it doesn't matter if Terrans have a choice because if they have some sort of negative consequence it encourages lone vigilantism behavior which usually ends up bad for the town.
I stand by my statement that nobody should connect today. The only caveat I will add to that is when there is a situation where we as a town feel it is best to have a person powered.
Discussing this is going to be like arguing something like miller theory. people will either agree with one side or the other. you may have your opinion. at the very least, I don't feel like having a theory discussion this late. I'm falling asleep at the keys, I'll probably just wind up repeating myself anywho.
i intrept this as that they connot break the connection once forged, but they can still reject one. @ROBROY:
Can you please confirm this interaction?
Terrans are not forced to accept Connection requests. They may still accept or reject them, or simply not respond. However, once a Terran is involved in a Connection, they cannot break it off in the same way that a Garaman can.
Here's my thought: I dont care overly about this. I refuse to spend ANOTHER specialty just sitting around trying to game the ☺☺☺☺ing setup. I didnt like it in hats (For reasons OTHER then the fact i was mafia), I didnt support it in tales, i dont support it in almost any game i am in.
I do NOT believe in focusing so much on game mechanics that the game basically dies while we try to manipulate our way through it. That's what you want, go play a normal or something. You can get the same results there. I don't play mafia simply to win (that's great but completely secondary) i play it to have fun. TO enjoy the setups, to enjoy the mechanics, and to watch the game unfurl.
So enjoy whatever setup decisions you make: Im not participating in any random "rules" you decide upon.
----
I also agree that guardmans post wasnt great, but he isn't scum. I dont see it.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Personally I feel like we should force all really scummy players to try to initiate a connection with someone we believe has a high chance of being town, and then have that player reject it so scummy players can't go into night with power-ed up abilities in case they are scum and try to get their scumbuddy to serve as a host.
I think Guardman is town. I don't like how Az waited until Axel's vote to add his non-commital support to both sides of the fence, when he could have commented on Guardman earlier.
Unvote, Vote: Azrael[/font][/font]
You've made the fatal assumption that I read Guardman's posts before someone quotes them. *finger wag*
In other news, I am not voting for Guardman at the present time.
The way he responded to my question seemed to me to basically said: Go stuff yourself I am not answering you ever. Which lead me to believe that it was more like he was taking the stance of not wanting to power anybody ever because he didn't want to power them, not because he shouldn't.
Also as for fishing for info, it doesn't give the scum any edge to know if their are terrans have anti-symbiot abilities since hosts have to accept the connections anyways. Therefore it is only to the towns advantage to know about these connection abilities, so that when we formulate plans and stuff we understand what we can and cant do.
First, nice panic attack. Second, the bolded part tells me that you don't fully understand the rules. Once connected, Terrans can't break the connection unless they get another offer (or if, I assume, the symbiote dies), but that doesn't mean they have to accept the offer in the first place.
Continuing on so, sure, some terrans may have connection related abilities, but it is entirely up to their discretion as to whether or on it is pertinent to disclose any information whatsoever. I'd rather everyone be guessing than the scum having the knowledge as they can, by design, generally coördinate better than the town. (Manipulator Mafia Aside :P) and any information like that, at least in the early game would be more likley to help the scum, but that's just me thinking.
I'm going to guess that it's unlikely that any Terran has a connection-related ability. I could see a connection between a Terran and a Garaman resulting in a Terran gaining an ability (from the Garaman), but it seems pretty clear to me that the psionic connection stuff is all-Garaman.
Quote from Niv »
What makes the information that I gave you different than Axel saying he doesn't want to be involved in a connection, ever? dosen't that Imply the same thing, just using different words.
I know this is addressed to Guardman, but as I was the first person to question Axel's motives, I want to answer, too: It didn't occur to me that Garamans might have negative consequences (for host or symbiote) to connecting other than the information sharing OR consequences for the host of a scum symbiote. You made it clear that you had a reason. Axel just said "I'm not playing your silly reindeer games," which seemed, as I've mentioned, to both be anti-town and anti-spirit-of-the-game. I'm still not terribly satisfied with Axel, as his complete rejection of the connection system (along with yours, I might mention) seems like an easy way for a scum to avoid both "leaking" info to a connected townie and the "why's-he-got-no-connection" stigma. I will continue to be suspicious of any player who continually refuses a connection (and even more suspicous of any player who states that s/he's refusing all connections but is then found to be in a connection). To go back to your own reasons for refusing connections at this time, it sounded like the Garaman home-world was quasi-utopian in nature with no war and little conflict. Why would some Garaman cultivate "dangerous" psionics unless they're nefarious in nature?
Quote from Niv »
While yes I'm saying it's dangerous to connect to me in some way, shape, or form, I'm not saying any mechanics, and will not until it is necessary. Axel had already said/Clearly implied that it was dangeros to connect to him.
I really didn't see any "danger" implication in his announcement, just that he, like Bartleby, would prefer not to. I don't care about the specifics, but I'm not going to let the scum hide behind a non-participation clause.
Quote from Niv »
unless you'd like to say that you didn't pick up on what Axel implied, but I wouldn't believe that regardless.
I am rejecting any connection requests that are directed my way this game. So no need to waste your time asking.
I have no opinion about creating some kind of "protocol" for requests either. The way I read the rules, it's impossible to "force" someone to connect with you. And even if they accept, they can drop you later and you wouldn't even necessarily know about it (unless you are a Terran, I guess). Even then, a scum Terran could get another scum to make another request to him and break it that way. My feeling is that it's mostly just going to be a trust thing, at least at first.
There is nothing in there about connecting to him being a bad idea, just that he's not going to do it. Period, end of story, ever, for the whole game. How is that not suspicious?
Nitpick: IF the mafia coordinate amongst themselves they can do the whole connection thing inside their circle.
I'm really sorta hoping that there are elements to this game that will prevent the scum from just hooking up with each other on the sly to power their abilities while the town sit around sucking their thumbs and fretting about how the mechanics work.
It seemed out of place, that is all. I don't know what history you have with Piñata, and I don't know why my vote irritates you so much (when I clearly don't know what history you have with Piñata).
I don't know why you would have a serious vote on someone for such a nitpicky reason. Scum are good at nitpicking, I hear.
Quote from ZDS »
That's pretty much what I said. Note: connections involving Terrans do not run any risk of giving any info whatsoever, as long of course as we keep the symbiote's identity secret.
Fos: Azrael for voting me for a lame random vote (that I'm keeping because it's not entirely random). And because I don't see how Terrans disclosing whether they are free can hurt (it doesn't say anything about our roles).
The fact that you identify your vote on me as at least partially serious implies that your Fos on Az is at least partially serious. And the second line doesn't sound like random-stage jabber; it sounds serious. I called it a misrep, as I didn't see anywhere that Az stated that Terrans shouldn't disclose whether they're free, but you start this argument and accuse him, and now you're sweeping it under the rug. And your reason for now voting Az seems terrible to me.
Which is why I suggest we use Terrans to connect more trusted players. That way we get essentially free power ups.
And yet RobRoy's caution sounds like it goes both ways, so hooking a townie-sounding player up to just any Terran could be bad, too. But I agree that the Terran presence seems to lend itself to a Terran-as-Energizer-Bunny concept, and we should look at ways to utilize that. Just not blindly.
Here's my thought: I dont care overly about this. I refuse to spend ANOTHER specialty just sitting around trying to game the ☺☺☺☺ing setup. I didnt like it in hats (For reasons OTHER then the fact i was mafia), I didnt support it in tales, i dont support it in almost any game i am in.
I do NOT believe in focusing so much on game mechanics that the game basically dies while we try to manipulate our way through it. That's what you want, go play a normal or something. You can get the same results there. I don't play mafia simply to win (that's great but completely secondary) i play it to have fun. TO enjoy the setups, to enjoy the mechanics, and to watch the game unfurl.
So enjoy whatever setup decisions you make: Im not participating in any random "rules" you decide upon.
Whether I'm with you in practice or not, I'm with you in spirit. I applaud this post. That said, if you buck town-created rules that seem like they can only be townie in nature, your little disclaimer here isn't going to dissuade me from scrutinizing you.
Whether I'm with you in practice or not, I'm with you in spirit. I applaud this post. That said, if you buck town-created rules that seem like they can only be townie in nature, your little disclaimer here isn't going to dissuade me from scrutinizing you.
The hat's plan in hats mafia was VERY Questionable in nature, yet nearly singlehandedly won the town the game by eliminating nearly all the mafia by day 2. All that remained was the actual lynching / vigging of them. Yet, I had a single role that was quite townie in its superpower, and im certain a better player could have rode that role to the end game.
So, this "very townie" decision, nearly gave the mafia a free win (Heck, i only had to get through 1 more night to win). So excuse me if i find these rules that "seem like they can only be townie in nature" a little suspect. Scum have equally as much input, alot more information, and, likely, mechanics designed to get around this. (If robroys a good mod, which i have no reason to believe he isnt)
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Scum have equally as much input, alot more information, and, likely, mechanics designed to get around this.
Actually? My opinion is the following: The scum *DO* have methods to get around the measures we'd be likely to implement, or plain have roles that dont require linking up to be useful, ect. Mafia, in general, ARE alot more powerful then the town. And that this plan to not allow VAST amounts of the town to not connect .... REEKS of scum to me. I will bet you large amounts of money that EVERYONE being unpowered is better for the scum then the town; likely by a large margin. And they dont need as many connectiors.
For every 3 townies that get to connect, 1 mafia needs to connect (Using the numbers from a standard mini of 3/9). Think about those numbers. That means that for us to balance out 2 connected mafia, 6 townie have to connect.
*SCREW* your plans. Im not going to be obedient.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Why would some Garaman cultivate "dangerous" psionics unless they're nefarious in nature?
Quote from Cantripmancer »
2) While the game does not feature Azrael-style role randomization, the roles were largely designed to work as either town or scum. Please rely more on player reads and less on role analysis.
I will bet you large amounts of money that EVERYONE being unpowered is better for the scum then the town; likely by a large margin. And they dont need as many connectiors.
Also: in #25 I suggest Terrans should reveal whether they are free. Azrael votes against me in the next post. Then in #36 he goes back on his word and states he's fine with Terrans disclosing their status.
So who's sweeping what under the rug?
You can't be serious. I felt it pretty obvious that in #13 Az wasn't saying "Don't disclose your status." He was saying "Stop inviting people to connect to you until we have a chance to talk this out." And his vote on you likewise seemed obviously random, and insignificant, as I thought the same thing (that your vote on me was a) random, and b) not nearly as fun or funny as some random votes). You're really reaching here.
Good for you. Still not going to opt you out of scrutinization. But I concur that avoiding the connection concept will likely end in favor of the scum.
EWP:
@Az: Thanks for attributing a mod-quote to me. That'll cost you another two Az-points, thank you very much! As to your point...taken, I suppose, but as a writer, it's very difficult for me to separate flavor and game, so it's a sticking point.
And if your vote on ZDS at that point wasn't random, as I figured, what was it for?
[font=Comic Sans MS]Nitpick: IF the mafia coordinate amongst themselves they can do the whole connection thing inside their circle.[/font]
Maybe, Maybe not. is this really something we can possibly know. Maybe the mafia has 3 Terrans, 2 Garamans. Maybe one of the Garamans in the Mafia's ability is to Role Block whoever they are connected to. We don't know. don't speculate.
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']MMoD makes a good point - we should make it so that we can reject scummy players' connections, Rbing theri better abilities.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']For the moment, I think, however, letting everyone choose on their own is a good thing - that way we can play the setup a bit (which will come out with a fairly balanced set of abilities) and get some information to come back to later on players' early decisions. It's a mistake to not do anything at all, though. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Just a note, I personally won't be requesting connections tody for role-related reasons.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']This seems like the bare minimum. If you think #2 is the best, but still not that good, why not come up with something yourself?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I don't see why we shouldn't use terrans more - they lose nothing, and it allows more Garamans to get better powers. The only problem is that they can't breka it off... so why not let the people we consider to be town use them as hosts? [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Unless a scum buddy establishes a connection to them, then our work's wasted. Plus, what if the scum kill method is for them to [I]serve as a host[/I]. I think Axelrod has the right idea regarding connections right now. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/quote[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']This is a fair point. If this is the main game mechanic, then it's likely there'll be something screwy with it. That said, the possibility of that shouldn't prevent us from making conenctions - it seems like an excuse.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Comic Sans MS']Seems like a fairly arbitrary attack - Tilde said a similar thing.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Comic Sans MS']You're using a fair bit of negative language to put a spin on this.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[B][COLOR=fuchsia][FONT='Comic Sans MS']Unvote Axel[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Comic Sans MS']The way he responded to my question seemed to me to basically said: Go stuff yourself I am not answering you ever. Which lead me to believe that it was more like he was taking the stance of not wanting to power anybody ever because he didn't want to power them, not because he shouldn't.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Comic Sans MS'] [/[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']quote][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']There is some pressure on you at this point, but not that much, and the slight sense of panic here - finding a pretty poor way of getting out of voting Axel - makes it look like you don't want to be the centre of attention.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']What do you gain by fishing?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']There are a lot of votes that have sprung up quite quickly...[/FONT][/COLOR]
[font=georgia]I think Guardman is town. I don't like how Az waited until Axel's vote to add his non-commital support to both sides of the fence, when he could have commented on Guardman earlier.
[b]Unvote, Vote: Azrael[/b][/font]
Um, is an early AzWagon really a good thing. not only that, how is this fence sitting:
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]MMoD makes a good point - we should make it so that we can reject scummy players' connections, Rbing theri better abilities.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]For the moment, I think, however, letting everyone choose on their own is a good thing - that way we can play the setup a bit (which will come out with a fairly balanced set of abilities) and get some information to come back to later on players' early decisions. It's a mistake to not do anything at all, though. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Just a note, I personally won't be requesting connections tody for role-related reasons.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]This seems like the bare minimum. If you think #2 is the best, but still not that good, why not come up with something yourself?[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]I don't see why we shouldn't use terrans - they lose nothing, and it allows more Garamans to get better powers. The only problem is that they can't break it off... so why not let the people we consider to be town use them as hosts? [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]This is a fair point. If this is the main game mechanic, then it's likely there'll be something screwy with it. That said, the possibility of that shouldn't prevent us from making conenctions - it seems like an excuse.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][/FONT][/COLOR][/I]
[/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Seems like a fairly arbitrary attack - Tilde said a similar thing.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Comic Sans MS]You're using a fair bit of negative language to put a spin on this.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]There is some pressure on you at this point, but not that much, and the slight sense of panic here - finding a pretty poor way of getting out of voting Axel - makes it look like you don't want to be the centre of attention.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]There are a lot of votes that have sprung up quite quickly...[/COLOR]
Noöne, in any situation, ever, wants to be the center of attention, Jesters aside.....
[font=Sylfaen][color=Slateblue][b]Here's my thought: I dont care overly about this. I refuse to spend ANOTHER specialty just sitting around trying to game the ☺☺☺☺ing setup. I didnt like it in hats (For reasons OTHER then the fact i was mafia), I didnt support it in tales, i dont support it in almost any game i am in.
I do NOT believe in focusing so much on game mechanics that the game basically dies while we try to manipulate our way through it. That's what you want, go play a normal or something. You can get the same results there. I don't play mafia simply to win (that's great but completely secondary) i play it to have fun. TO enjoy the setups, to enjoy the mechanics, and to watch the game unfurl.
So enjoy whatever setup decisions you make: Im not participating in any random "rules" you decide upon. [/font][/color]
This. I've been in multiple Speciality/FTQ games where it's just degenerated into claims and PoE. I'l love for this to say analysis for as much as possible. aside from cop claims and what have you.
Continuing on so, sure, some terrans may have connection related abilities, but it is entirely up to their discretion as to whether or on it is pertinent to disclose any information whatsoever. I'd rather everyone be guessing than the scum having the knowledge as they can, by design, generally coördinate better than the town. (Manipulator Mafia Aside :P) and any information like that, at least in the early game would be more likley to help the scum, but that's just me thinking.
I'm going to [B]guess[/B] that it's unlikely that any Terran has a connection-related ability. I could see a connection between a Terran and a Garaman resulting in a Terran gaining an ability (from the Garaman), but it seems pretty clear to me that the psionic connection stuff is all-Garaman.
But that's all it is, a Guess. I'm saying that without prior knowledge of the setup, it is impossible to know one way or the other.
What makes the information that I gave you different than Axel saying he doesn't want to be involved in a connection, ever? dosen't that Imply the same thing, just using different words.
I know this is addressed to Guardman, but as I was the first person to question Axel's motives, I want to answer, too: It didn't occur to me that Garamans might have negative consequences (for host or symbiote) to connecting [I]other than the information sharing OR consequences for the host of a scum symbiote[/I]. You made it clear that you had a reason. Axel just said "I'm not playing your silly reindeer games," which seemed, as I've mentioned, to both be anti-town and anti-spirit-of-the-game. I'm [I]still[/I] not terribly satisfied with Axel, as his complete rejection of the connection system (along with yours, I might mention) seems like an easy way for a scum to avoid both "leaking" info to a connected townie and the "why's-he-got-no-connection" stigma. I will [I]continue[/I] to be suspicious of any player who continually refuses a connection (and even more suspicous of any player who states that s/he's refusing all connections but is then found to be in a connection). To go back to your own reasons for refusing connections at this time, it sounded like the Garaman home-world was quasi-utopian in nature with no war and little conflict. Why would some Garaman cultivate "dangerous" psionics unless they're nefarious in nature?
I'm not completly rejecting the system, or the possibility that at some point in the game I may be connected to someone. It's just dangerous. at some point, It might be worth it to use my role.
Also, on the flavor front I can guarantee you, from the flavor provided in my role PM that the home world is not as Utopian as one might expect.
And just so I don't have to go through the chore of quoting more text properly, I feel that I just interpreted Axel's post the way I did because of my role, and the fact that I just jumped to the conclusion. Looking over Axel's post after sleeping, I agree with you. this still dosen't make Guardman's post any better however.
The hat's plan in hats mafia was VERY Questionable in nature, yet nearly singlehandedly won the town the game by eliminating nearly all the mafia by day 2. All that remained was the actual lynching / vigging of them. Yet, I had a single role that was quite townie in its superpower, and im certain a better player could have rode that role to the end game.
So, this "very townie" decision, nearly gave the mafia a free win (Heck, i only had to get through 1 more night to win). So excuse me if i find these rules that "seem like they can only be townie in nature" a little suspect. Scum have equally as much input, alot more information, and, likely, mechanics designed to get around this. (If robroys a good mod, which i have no reason to believe he isnt)[/b][/color][/font]
You voted Tilde Townie MVP in that game if I recall. Good old Multivote Azrael X9.....
Here's my thought: I dont care overly about this. I refuse to spend ANOTHER specialty just sitting around trying to game the ☺☺☺☺ing setup. I didnt like it in hats (For reasons OTHER then the fact i was mafia), I didnt support it in tales, i dont support it in almost any game i am in.
I do NOT believe in focusing so much on game mechanics that the game basically dies while we try to manipulate our way through it. That's what you want, go play a normal or something. You can get the same results there. I don't play mafia simply to win (that's great but completely secondary) i play it to have fun. TO enjoy the setups, to enjoy the mechanics, and to watch the game unfurl.
So enjoy whatever setup decisions you make: Im not participating in any random "rules" you decide upon.
----
I also agree that guardmans post wasnt great, but he isn't scum. I dont see it.
1. Vote Cyouni for being the bad guy last time. (Wait, Gigas1 was a bad guy too...) I missed the random stage? Aww. Unvote
2. My home Internet has ceased to exist, so for the time being I'll be posting like I posted early last summer (during a one to two hour span about four or five times a week). I hope to get this remedied soon.
3. I'm a Terran, so can't break a Connection once established. Someone has already tried to Connect with me, which is unappreciated given the fact that I have no idea if this player is town or scum. You know who you are.
4. Seppel's post was pretty hilarious.
As a (Terran) player with obvious space in his head (more than your average bear, some would argue), I admit to some trepidation of having my mind inhabited, particularly by someone who may be scum. No offense, but both flavorfully and game-wise, I'm not open for business. At least not yet.
A quick question to all: Who thinks that we should avoid becoming a host today, and who thinks that we should be actively requesting/hosting?
I for one do not plan on becoming a Host to someone unless I have good reason to trust him. It also helps if the person who wants to be my Symbiote has already claimed in-thread, but this is not necessarily as long as the player has been giving me good vibes. As for Garamans, I see no reason for them to be so cautious when Hosting, as they can simply break off any Connections they think are threatening.
Aren't there sixteen Garamans? Even if there were six scum and all of them were Garamans, more than half would still be town. Or were you saying something else, perhaps based on inside information?
First, nice panic attack. Second, the bolded part tells me that you don't fully understand the rules. Once connected, Terrans can't break the connection unless they get another offer (or if, I assume, the symbiote dies), but that doesn't mean they have to accept the offer in the first place.
To elaborate on this, Guardman showed a similar lack of understanding of how the items in Indiana Jones worked, and he was a SK in that game. Whether he doesn't read as scum or simply doesn't read at all is up for debate.
Aren't there sixteen Garamans? Even if there were six scum and all of them were Garamans, more than half would still be town. Or were you saying something else, perhaps based on inside information?
What!?!?! Where do you get inside information out of this, Mudslinger?
I think for today, a good rule would be to have no one become a host.
Why?
As far as I'm concerned, I'll wait until we have more info before I reject connection attempts. It is safe to assume most Garamen are town.
Guardman seems to be suggesting that because of the moderator's warnings that blindly making Connections may be harmful, it's best to be cautious about doing so. I tend to agree, though I wouldn't exclude the possibility. If I had a good feeling that someone was town, I'd allow him to be my Symbiote.
ZDS seems to be suggesting that Guardman's cautiousness is unwarranted. I agree that outright rejecting a Connection attempt is unnecessary when one can simply ignore it, but to imply that because the numbers favor Garamans being town makes it less dangerous to accept a Connection is a poor argument. I find it unlikely that town and scum would be equally eager to request a Connection given that scum probably have less to fear from an unknown Connection.
I accused ZDS inside information because by implying that Garamans are largely town he's also implying that Terrans are largely scum, which doesn't seem like something a townie would know about.
If I missed a question someone asked me I am sorry (in the middle of studying), but I wanted to address this. I don't where people are getting this I don't understand the rules from. I went and created the theories I've been using based on the rules. I know how the rules work. Also could someone point out where I went and implied that I didn't because I just don't see it going over my posts.
1. Terrans can't break off connections. But can replace them when a new offer comes in.
2. Garamans (which I keep thinking says Guardman instead) can break off connections.
3. A Garaman can ask one person to connect with them per day.
4. There might be some risks connecting. I think this implies the abilities certain people have when being a host.
I'm not really interested in connecting with anyone yet, but I do think that we should eventually be connecting, as I agree that the scum are probably naturally more powerful. We should not immediately claim who we are connected with, either.
I can tell this game is going to be a bit of a mindfreak.
Nobody connecting to me either means you are all paranoid jerks, or you're all like E_P and I.
E_P, have you gotten any requests yet?
Nothing at all.:-/
I cannot see this being a move out of kindness and warm fuzzy feelings. There's two people specifically requesting to be symbiotes, and someone decided another Terran was the safest play.
If you invite people, logically it means you are free.
Yeah, um, see what you did there? You misrepped again. Az said "Stop encouraging hookups" and you said "Why shouldn't we disclose if we're free or not" and I said "That's not what Az said" and you said "[Encouraging people to hookup] = [Identifying that you don't have a symbiote.], so yes, that's what Az said." No. I'd vote you again if I could.
Quote from ZDS »
It didn't look random to me.
It did to me. Still would, if Az hadn't implied otherwise.
As for Garamans, I see no reason for them to be so cautious when Hosting, as they can simply break off any Connections they think are threatening.
Your lassez-faire attitude about connections bothers me. Who's to say that the danger lies in the length of the connection and not in the fact that a connection occurred?
Quote from AsianI »
Aren't there sixteen Garamans? Even if there were six scum and all of them were Garamans, more than half would still be town. Or were you saying something else, perhaps based on inside information?
I'll second Niv: What? It's basic math, as you yourself prove. To continue the thought, I would find it rather odd if none of the Terrans were scum, which means that there's a very good chance that between ten and 12? 13? Garaman are town. Not guaranteed, but a good chance. So where's this inside info stuff coming from?
Quote from AsianI »
To elaborate on this, Guardman showed a similar lack of understanding of how the items in Indiana Jones worked, and he was a SK in that game. Whether he doesn't read as scum or simply doesn't read at all is up for debate.
Yup. Given the games I've been in with him (more than a few), I'm going to go with the latter.
I accused ZDS inside information because by implying that Garamans are largely town he's also implying that Terrans are largely scum, which doesn't seem like something a townie would know about.
So you don't see anything wrong with ZDS telling us that most Garamans are town (and implying that it's OK to trust unknown Connections)? Odd.
UnVote Guardman, Vote AsianInvasion
Seriously, really, that's your responce. I'll spell it out in detail if you'd like when i get back in.
Text only version: "I would be wary of whoever tried to connect with you since the two people requesting a connection have not heard anything much in the terms of discussion or in private requests. It sounds like they singled out a Terran that they felt would be the safest bet - they felt AI would likely say yes and that they could anonymously get connected to someone who cannot break the connection."
Ill be flat out. I tried to connect. I chose AI cause i figure he's a much lower target for wagoning, tends to lie moderately low, and, as someone i know out of game decently well, it's funny.
...
Funny how i turned out wrong on ALL these assumptions.
As to WHY i chose to connect: I decided i would connect immediately upon the game starting, and i attempted connection before my first post even i believe. I answered why AI. *shrug*
Im playing with the setup loose and fast i will admit. Its more fun that way.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I am encouraging conversation. At no point did I nor do I currently advocate lynching based solely on role name. That you continue to paint my actions as scummy is most intriguing, especially since you have not answered my question regarding role name. Perhaps it is best that way, but perhaps you have something to hide. Thoughts to nibble upon.
1. Outing a specific role name could easily have no effect on scum Night actions, assuming the game is well-constructed (which I believe this one is). What do you imagine MJ's alignment and/or abilities would be if he is in this game?
2. It makes sense to dispel the "MJ must be scum" mentality that people might hold. Personally, I am leaning toward "MJ is likely scum," but it could easily go either way.
First, sorry for not being able to post as much content. This is my first specialty, and I am finding it very hard to speculate about roles/setup. Since that seems to be most of what is going on right now, I find it slightly more difficult to follow than normal. My current idea is that if we wanted to be super careful, we should probably wait until near the end of the day or when a person is at L-1 and is likely to be the lynch to set up connections.
I'm not really interested in connecting with anyone yet, but I do think that we should eventually be connecting, as I agree that the scum are probably naturally more powerful. We should not immediately claim who we are connected with, either.
Text only version: "I would be wary of whoever tried to connect with you since the two people requesting a connection have not heard anything much in the terms of discussion or in private requests. It sounds like they singled out a Terran that they felt would be the safest bet - they felt AI would likely say yes and that they could anonymously get connected to someone who cannot break the connection."
I don't understand. Sure, we don't use the same words, but the end result is the same. I could also have said "saying you are free is the equivalent of an invitation" (unless you specify otherwise). Same thing.
Ill be flat out. I tried to connect. I chose AI cause i figure he's a much lower target for wagoning, tends to lie moderately low, and, as someone i know out of game decently well, it's funny.
I lol'd. Seriously? AsianI raises my suspicions in every game I play in.
Quote from SB »
As to WHY i chose to connect: I decided i would connect immediately upon the game starting, and i attempted connection before my first post even i believe. I answered why AI. *shrug*
Im playing with the setup loose and fast i will admit. Its more fun that way.
I don't think it's smart, but I do think you're town.
Asian feels exactly like his pointlessly-scheming self in Afterlife mafia.
Here's some backstory:
Asian is scum.
Anaklusmos is his scumbuddy.
Anaklusmos is Michael Jackson.
There have been no name claims.
I was there. This is true.
But I'm not seeing the similarity to this game. I'm not getting town vibes from AI this game, but I think this comparison is a stretch.
@Gigas: You've just identified another reason that connecting is going to be weird/dicey: Seppel comes out and says "Pick me, pick me!!!" Multiple people decide to go for it and send him a connection request. Either he gets to choose which he responds to, or he responds to one before the second one gets to him. Either way, if I'm reading the rules correctly, all but one connection has now been "denyblocked," ruining the denied individuals their chance. Or scum could make an "open for connection" statement, attract six responses, and deny them all.
What I'm trying to get at is that the knowledge that a player has accepted a connection (not what connection, though) needs to be common and immediate to avoid inadvertent multiple requests that lead to denials.
No one should simply scream "open market"; it's a rushed recipe for disaster.
Multiple people can make requests to one person. The person receiving the requests has all day to decide who to accept. Accepting a connection does not auto-deny the other. The other connection request will stay open until you close the first connection request and then accept or deny the other connection request.
Jesus, was I like the only person who grilled RobRoy about this?
Also I am very unhappy because I thought connections made a faux-masonry where you could chat with each other, but that's not the case.
This is my first specialty, and I am finding it very hard to speculate about roles/setup. Since that seems to be most of what is going on right now, I find it slightly more difficult to follow than normal.
My current idea is that if we wanted to be super careful, we should probably wait until near the end of the day or when a person is at L-1 and is likely to be the lynch to set up connections.
Are you breadcrumbing something or does that idea really sound stupid?
I decided i would connect immediately upon the game starting, and i attempted connection before my first post even i believe. I answered why AI. *shrug*
Im playing with the setup loose and fast i will admit. Its more fun that way.
I have to ask: Why would you do something atypically impulsive at the start of this game?
There's little harm in waiting a few hours for you to attempt it, which would give players a chance to post, and possibly get some kind of a read on them. You only have one chance to set up a connection today, so even if you're playing the better-than-even random odds of hitting a townie, there's still the possibility that someone will attempt a hook-up to your choice later in the day.
Ill be flat out. I tried to connect. I chose AI cause i figure he's a much lower target for wagoning, tends to lie moderately low, and, as someone i know out of game decently well, it's funny.
...
Funny how i turned out wrong on ALL these assumptions.
As to WHY i chose to connect: I decided i would connect immediately upon the game starting, and i attempted connection before my first post even i believe. I answered why AI. *shrug*
Im playing with the setup loose and fast i will admit. Its more fun that way.
Multiple people can make requests to one person. The person receiving the requests has all day to decide who to accept. Accepting a connection does not auto-deny the other. The other connection request will stay open until you close the first connection request and then accept or deny the other connection request.
Jesus, was I like the only person who grilled RobRoy about this?
[4d] Each Garaman may initiate one Connection per game day. They do so by PMing their intended Host and me. Both the title and the body of the PM should read "Connection request". Nothing else can be in the PM. If the Garaman was previously involved in a Connection, this will cause that to be broken off.
See that bolded part? It seemed clear to me that each Garaman got one attempt (that is: one initiation) at connecting.
Mod: If a Garaman requests a connection and is rejected, can that Garaman make additional requests before the end of the day? If so, can that Garaman make additional requests for connection to the same person?
Quote from Seppel »
Also I am very unhappy because I thought connections made a faux-masonry where you could chat with each other, but that's not the case.
How much of your initial invitation barrage was based on this assumption?
Are you breadcrumbing something or does that idea really sound stupid?
Not breadcrumbing anything, so that is just a stupid idea, I guess.
What the hell? Yes it's serious. Why would you think it isn't?!
The thing is, my ability requires being connected for certain amounts of time to become more powerful. I would obviously want it to last as long as possible to get the more powerful ability.
EBWODP: Seppel, I realize I didn't fully address your response. I don't care about the debutant who's getting wooed by six suitors. I care about the five missed opportunities of the suitors who don't get chosen.
Fos: Azrael for voting me for a lame random vote (that I'm keeping because it's not entirely random). And because I don't see how Terrans disclosing whether they are free can hurt (it doesn't say anything about our roles).
@ZDS: So was the bolded part of the above quote serious?
Because if that's part of why you're suspicious of him, I think it's ridiculous, as you're twisting his words to imply something that I in no way heard him say.
I'm beginning to think that you and I just are not on the same wavelength.
Mod: If a Garaman requests a connection and is rejected, can that Garaman make additional requests before the end of the day? If so, can that Garaman make additional requests for connection to the same person?
They cannot. They have used their one Connection request for the day.
I'm not really interested in connecting with anyone yet, but I do think that we should eventually be connecting, as I agree that the scum are probably naturally more powerful. We should not immediately claim who we are connected with, either.
I can tell this game is going to be a bit of a mindfreak.
Vote Zebi. Ten Azrael points if you can tell me why I did it.
And why, thanks.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Actually I backpeddled because Niv confirmed that there are reasons not to connect with certain individuals.
I would like to know how knowing which people to and not connect with are to any value for the scum when:
1. We said we are going to make all connections known via the host telling us he is connected. Which means only scum hosts have reasons to hide it. It is for the town's benefit to know who to and not to connect with.
2. Could you explain to me how the info helps the scum in any way given how we are going to approach this thing. Having a list of people who nobody should connect with does nothing for the scum as far as I can tell and everything for the town. In fact I would like to propose a mass claim of sorts where anybody with a negative connection ability comes out and tells us.
Also mod vote count please.
I can't speak for Axel, but, that post you made was hella scummy. you go from making the Absolute statement that noöne should make a connection today, which is crazy, people will be behaviourly town by the end of the day. people will be behaviourly scummy. we should be makeing connections by the end of the day. That statement was just bad and fearmongering. it read as though you were trying to keep the town from having access to additional power roles today.
ok, so, first, the rules:
i intrept this as that they connot break the connection once forged, but they can still reject one.
@ROBROY:
Can you please confirm this interaction?
Thanks in Advance
-Niv
Continuing on so, sure, some terrans may have connection related abilities, but it is entirely up to their discretion as to whether or on it is pertinent to disclose any information whatsoever. I'd rather everyone be guessing than the scum having the knowledge as they can, by design, generally coördinate better than the town. (Manipulator Mafia Aside :P) and any information like that, at least in the early game would be more likley to help the scum, but that's just me thinking.
What makes the information that I gave you different than Axel saying he doesn't want to be involved in a connection, ever? dosen't that Imply the same thing, just using different words.
While yes I'm saying it's dangerous to connect to me in some way, shape, or form, I'm not saying any mechanics, and will not until it is necessary. Axel had already said/Clearly implied that it was dangeros to connect to him. why question him on the details? it's like asking someone to roleclaim for no reason other than curiosity. it's stupid. there is no need for ANYONE to know the informaton, unless Axel (or I guess myself) think it's relevant. in which I'd just say it. unless you'd like to say that you didn't pick up on what Axel implied, but I wouldn't believe that regardless.
Are you kidding me. 1 Day has been on for less than a day, a good mod will proved an early votecount when possible, and if he doesn't he's brobabally been hit by a bus, or something. While nowhere near scummy, this is just rude.
I hope all of this makes sense. It's late.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Your opinion on hosting today? For aggressively doing it, or for not doing it at all? (And why?)
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
please read my previous post, first paragraph.
although I find it rather disappointing that you didn't.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Also it doesn't matter if Terrans have a choice because if they have some sort of negative consequence it encourages lone vigilantism behavior which usually ends up bad for the town.
I stand by my statement that nobody should connect today. The only caveat I will add to that is when there is a situation where we as a town feel it is best to have a person powered.
Also I wasn't being rude. There have been a lot of votes being cast on me today and I want to know officially where I stand.
your initial suspicion was definitely jumping the gun and baseless. had you just posted the question itself, you probabally would have ignored along with cantripmacer. but in posting the whole post, it was like a comedy of errors; the whole is greater than the sum of the parts here.
Discussing this is going to be like arguing something like miller theory. people will either agree with one side or the other. you may have your opinion. at the very least, I don't feel like having a theory discussion this late. I'm falling asleep at the keys, I'll probably just wind up repeating myself anywho.
We're just going to end up disagreeing here again arn't we. it's irrelevant. I'm also tired.
Goodnight thread.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Terrans are not forced to accept Connection requests. They may still accept or reject them, or simply not respond. However, once a Terran is involved in a Connection, they cannot break it off in the same way that a Garaman can.
For the record, I intend to provide votecounts roughly every day.
Official votecount, as of 73:
Guardman(4) - Axelrod, Niv, E_P, ~Tilde~
E_P(2) - Toastboy, mmod
Axelrod(1) - Cantripmancer
ZDS(1) - Azrael
desCoures(1) - zindabad
Toastboy(1) - Cyouni
zindabad(1) - desCoures
Azrael(1) - ZDS
Not voting:
AsianInvasion
bolmedias
ChrisXIV
Gigas1
Guardman
KeyofDestiny
Seppel
StormBlind
tordeck
Zebi
With 22 players alive, it is 12 votes to lynch. Please let me know if you believe I have made an error.
The deadline for the day is at 5 pm Eastern on Wednesday, June 2nd.
I do NOT believe in focusing so much on game mechanics that the game basically dies while we try to manipulate our way through it. That's what you want, go play a normal or something. You can get the same results there. I don't play mafia simply to win (that's great but completely secondary) i play it to have fun. TO enjoy the setups, to enjoy the mechanics, and to watch the game unfurl.
So enjoy whatever setup decisions you make: Im not participating in any random "rules" you decide upon.
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I also agree that guardmans post wasnt great, but he isn't scum. I dont see it.
Oooooh, nice!
The problem is you kill people during the night.
You've made the fatal assumption that I read Guardman's posts before someone quotes them. *finger wag*
In other news, I am not voting for Guardman at the present time.
First, nice panic attack. Second, the bolded part tells me that you don't fully understand the rules. Once connected, Terrans can't break the connection unless they get another offer (or if, I assume, the symbiote dies), but that doesn't mean they have to accept the offer in the first place.
I'm going to guess that it's unlikely that any Terran has a connection-related ability. I could see a connection between a Terran and a Garaman resulting in a Terran gaining an ability (from the Garaman), but it seems pretty clear to me that the psionic connection stuff is all-Garaman.
I know this is addressed to Guardman, but as I was the first person to question Axel's motives, I want to answer, too: It didn't occur to me that Garamans might have negative consequences (for host or symbiote) to connecting other than the information sharing OR consequences for the host of a scum symbiote. You made it clear that you had a reason. Axel just said "I'm not playing your silly reindeer games," which seemed, as I've mentioned, to both be anti-town and anti-spirit-of-the-game. I'm still not terribly satisfied with Axel, as his complete rejection of the connection system (along with yours, I might mention) seems like an easy way for a scum to avoid both "leaking" info to a connected townie and the "why's-he-got-no-connection" stigma. I will continue to be suspicious of any player who continually refuses a connection (and even more suspicous of any player who states that s/he's refusing all connections but is then found to be in a connection). To go back to your own reasons for refusing connections at this time, it sounded like the Garaman home-world was quasi-utopian in nature with no war and little conflict. Why would some Garaman cultivate "dangerous" psionics unless they're nefarious in nature?
I really didn't see any "danger" implication in his announcement, just that he, like Bartleby, would prefer not to. I don't care about the specifics, but I'm not going to let the scum hide behind a non-participation clause.
Seriously? Look at Axel's post again:
There is nothing in there about connecting to him being a bad idea, just that he's not going to do it. Period, end of story, ever, for the whole game. How is that not suspicious?
I'm really sorta hoping that there are elements to this game that will prevent the scum from just hooking up with each other on the sly to power their abilities while the town sit around sucking their thumbs and fretting about how the mechanics work.
I don't know why you would have a serious vote on someone for such a nitpicky reason. Scum are good at nitpicking, I hear.
O.o What? Here's your quote:
The fact that you identify your vote on me as at least partially serious implies that your Fos on Az is at least partially serious. And the second line doesn't sound like random-stage jabber; it sounds serious. I called it a misrep, as I didn't see anywhere that Az stated that Terrans shouldn't disclose whether they're free, but you start this argument and accuse him, and now you're sweeping it under the rug. And your reason for now voting Az seems terrible to me.
Unvote: Axelrod, Vote: ZeDorkSlipeur
And yet RobRoy's caution sounds like it goes both ways, so hooking a townie-sounding player up to just any Terran could be bad, too. But I agree that the Terran presence seems to lend itself to a Terran-as-Energizer-Bunny concept, and we should look at ways to utilize that. Just not blindly.
Whether I'm with you in practice or not, I'm with you in spirit. I applaud this post. That said, if you buck town-created rules that seem like they can only be townie in nature, your little disclaimer here isn't going to dissuade me from scrutinizing you.
This made me lol.
The hat's plan in hats mafia was VERY Questionable in nature, yet nearly singlehandedly won the town the game by eliminating nearly all the mafia by day 2. All that remained was the actual lynching / vigging of them. Yet, I had a single role that was quite townie in its superpower, and im certain a better player could have rode that role to the end game.
So, this "very townie" decision, nearly gave the mafia a free win (Heck, i only had to get through 1 more night to win). So excuse me if i find these rules that "seem like they can only be townie in nature" a little suspect. Scum have equally as much input, alot more information, and, likely, mechanics designed to get around this. (If robroys a good mod, which i have no reason to believe he isnt)
Actually? My opinion is the following: The scum *DO* have methods to get around the measures we'd be likely to implement, or plain have roles that dont require linking up to be useful, ect. Mafia, in general, ARE alot more powerful then the town. And that this plan to not allow VAST amounts of the town to not connect .... REEKS of scum to me. I will bet you large amounts of money that EVERYONE being unpowered is better for the scum then the town; likely by a large margin. And they dont need as many connectiors.
For every 3 townies that get to connect, 1 mafia needs to connect (Using the numbers from a standard mini of 3/9). Think about those numbers. That means that for us to balance out 2 connected mafia, 6 townie have to connect.
*SCREW* your plans. Im not going to be obedient.
How is this NOT fishing? You're basically asking "are you some special Terran that actually gets powers somehow?"
@MMoD: I have to agree. I didn't realize Chris himself was a Terran when he asked that question.
Of course, I also didn't realize Seppel was a Garaman. I would question why he wants to be a host over establishing a connection.
*cough*
Unless I was voting you for something else...Good work trying to twist that into some kind of a scum tell though.
*nods*
You can't be serious. I felt it pretty obvious that in #13 Az wasn't saying "Don't disclose your status." He was saying "Stop inviting people to connect to you until we have a chance to talk this out." And his vote on you likewise seemed obviously random, and insignificant, as I thought the same thing (that your vote on me was a) random, and b) not nearly as fun or funny as some random votes). You're really reaching here.
Good for you. Still not going to opt you out of scrutinization. But I concur that avoiding the connection concept will likely end in favor of the scum.
EWP:
@Az: Thanks for attributing a mod-quote to me. That'll cost you another two Az-points, thank you very much! As to your point...taken, I suppose, but as a writer, it's very difficult for me to separate flavor and game, so it's a sticking point.
And if your vote on ZDS at that point wasn't random, as I figured, what was it for?
Maybe, Maybe not. is this really something we can possibly know. Maybe the mafia has 3 Terrans, 2 Garamans. Maybe one of the Garamans in the Mafia's ability is to Role Block whoever they are connected to. We don't know. don't speculate.
I am not reading this.
Um, is an early AzWagon really a good thing. not only that, how is this fence sitting:
he says half the post was Null-Meta and half is bad. where do you get a fence sit from?
Noöne, in any situation, ever, wants to be the center of attention, Jesters aside.....
This. I've been in multiple Speciality/FTQ games where it's just degenerated into claims and PoE. I'l love for this to say analysis for as much as possible. aside from cop claims and what have you.
But that's all it is, a Guess. I'm saying that without prior knowledge of the setup, it is impossible to know one way or the other.
I'm not completly rejecting the system, or the possibility that at some point in the game I may be connected to someone. It's just dangerous. at some point, It might be worth it to use my role.
Also, on the flavor front I can guarantee you, from the flavor provided in my role PM that the home world is not as Utopian as one might expect.
And just so I don't have to go through the chore of quoting more text properly, I feel that I just interpreted Axel's post the way I did because of my role, and the fact that I just jumped to the conclusion. Looking over Axel's post after sleeping, I agree with you. this still dosen't make Guardman's post any better however.
You voted Tilde Townie MVP in that game if I recall. Good old Multivote Azrael X9.....
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Connect to me.
You would, but then that would make you look like fishing scum.
2. My home Internet has ceased to exist, so for the time being I'll be posting like I posted early last summer (during a one to two hour span about four or five times a week). I hope to get this remedied soon.
3. I'm a Terran, so can't break a Connection once established. Someone has already tried to Connect with me, which is unappreciated given the fact that I have no idea if this player is town or scum. You know who you are.
4. Seppel's post was pretty hilarious.
OK. This doesn't seem scummy to me.
I feel the same way.
I'm reading Hats right now and the similarities these games share (on the surface at least) is remarkable. Also, I lol'd.
I for one do not plan on becoming a Host to someone unless I have good reason to trust him. It also helps if the person who wants to be my Symbiote has already claimed in-thread, but this is not necessarily as long as the player has been giving me good vibes. As for Garamans, I see no reason for them to be so cautious when Hosting, as they can simply break off any Connections they think are threatening.
Aren't there sixteen Garamans? Even if there were six scum and all of them were Garamans, more than half would still be town. Or were you saying something else, perhaps based on inside information?
To elaborate on this, Guardman showed a similar lack of understanding of how the items in Indiana Jones worked, and he was a SK in that game. Whether he doesn't read as scum or simply doesn't read at all is up for debate.
E_P, have you gotten any requests yet?
What!?!?! Where do you get inside information out of this, Mudslinger?
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Asian's sentence was fine up until those last words.
Vote AsianInvasion
You sure are quick to jump to ZDS's defense.
The post I referenced:
Guardman seems to be suggesting that because of the moderator's warnings that blindly making Connections may be harmful, it's best to be cautious about doing so. I tend to agree, though I wouldn't exclude the possibility. If I had a good feeling that someone was town, I'd allow him to be my Symbiote.
ZDS seems to be suggesting that Guardman's cautiousness is unwarranted. I agree that outright rejecting a Connection attempt is unnecessary when one can simply ignore it, but to imply that because the numbers favor Garamans being town makes it less dangerous to accept a Connection is a poor argument. I find it unlikely that town and scum would be equally eager to request a Connection given that scum probably have less to fear from an unknown Connection.
I accused ZDS inside information because by implying that Garamans are largely town he's also implying that Terrans are largely scum, which doesn't seem like something a townie would know about.
So you don't see anything wrong with ZDS telling us that most Garamans are town (and implying that it's OK to trust unknown Connections)? Odd.
1. Terrans can't break off connections. But can replace them when a new offer comes in.
2. Garamans (which I keep thinking says Guardman instead) can break off connections.
3. A Garaman can ask one person to connect with them per day.
4. There might be some risks connecting. I think this implies the abilities certain people have when being a host.
Not fishing here. I'm genuinely interested. And jealous.
Vote S-E-P-P-E-L.
I'm not really interested in connecting with anyone yet, but I do think that we should eventually be connecting, as I agree that the scum are probably naturally more powerful. We should not immediately claim who we are connected with, either.
I can tell this game is going to be a bit of a mindfreak.
Sign up for League of Legends!
Nothing at all.:-/
I cannot see this being a move out of kindness and warm fuzzy feelings. There's two people specifically requesting to be symbiotes, and someone decided another Terran was the safest play.
It did to me. Still would, if Az hadn't implied otherwise.
Your lassez-faire attitude about connections bothers me. Who's to say that the danger lies in the length of the connection and not in the fact that a connection occurred?
I'll second Niv: What? It's basic math, as you yourself prove. To continue the thought, I would find it rather odd if none of the Terrans were scum, which means that there's a very good chance that between ten and 12? 13? Garaman are town. Not guaranteed, but a good chance. So where's this inside info stuff coming from?
Yup. Given the games I've been in with him (more than a few), I'm going to go with the latter.
I'll be your symbiote, Huckleberry. (w/apologies to Val Kilmer/Kevin Jarre/whomever)
@E_P: Did you want to finish that sentence, or what?
UnVote Guardman, Vote AsianInvasion
Seriously, really, that's your responce. I'll spell it out in detail if you'd like when i get back in.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
...
Funny how i turned out wrong on ALL these assumptions.
As to WHY i chose to connect: I decided i would connect immediately upon the game starting, and i attempted connection before my first post even i believe. I answered why AI. *shrug*
Im playing with the setup loose and fast i will admit. Its more fun that way.
You are not allowed into the cool kids club.
I harbor good feelings towards StormBlind and E_P.
If I wasn't already voting Asian, I'd vote him again.
I have still received no connection requests.
Here's some backstory:
Asian is scum.
Anaklusmos is his scumbuddy.
Anaklusmos is Michael Jackson.
There have been no name claims.
Yes, I have a reason, but I don't want to share it at this time.
Is this serious? I will connect to you if you would actually accept, but I don't want to waste my only request on this if you say no.
Why is Seppel scummy?
I getcha.
Let's try this again. Why are you voting Azrael?
I lol'd. Seriously? AsianI raises my suspicions in every game I play in.
I don't think it's smart, but I do think you're town.
I was there. This is true.
But I'm not seeing the similarity to this game. I'm not getting town vibes from AI this game, but I think this comparison is a stretch.
@Gigas: You've just identified another reason that connecting is going to be weird/dicey: Seppel comes out and says "Pick me, pick me!!!" Multiple people decide to go for it and send him a connection request. Either he gets to choose which he responds to, or he responds to one before the second one gets to him. Either way, if I'm reading the rules correctly, all but one connection has now been "denyblocked," ruining the denied individuals their chance. Or scum could make an "open for connection" statement, attract six responses, and deny them all.
What I'm trying to get at is that the knowledge that a player has accepted a connection (not what connection, though) needs to be common and immediate to avoid inadvertent multiple requests that lead to denials.
No one should simply scream "open market"; it's a rushed recipe for disaster.
Jesus, was I like the only person who grilled RobRoy about this?
Also I am very unhappy because I thought connections made a faux-masonry where you could chat with each other, but that's not the case.
Not buying it.
Are you breadcrumbing something or does that idea really sound stupid?
What the hell? Yes it's serious. Why would you think it isn't?!
What the hell again? Why are you incinuating that I wouldn't accept?
I have to ask: Why would you do something atypically impulsive at the start of this game?
There's little harm in waiting a few hours for you to attempt it, which would give players a chance to post, and possibly get some kind of a read on them. You only have one chance to set up a connection today, so even if you're playing the better-than-even random odds of hitting a townie, there's still the possibility that someone will attempt a hook-up to your choice later in the day.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
See that bolded part? It seemed clear to me that each Garaman got one attempt (that is: one initiation) at connecting.
Mod: If a Garaman requests a connection and is rejected, can that Garaman make additional requests before the end of the day? If so, can that Garaman make additional requests for connection to the same person?
How much of your initial invitation barrage was based on this assumption?
Not breadcrumbing anything, so that is just a stupid idea, I guess.
The thing is, my ability requires being connected for certain amounts of time to become more powerful. I would obviously want it to last as long as possible to get the more powerful ability.
@ZDS: So was the bolded part of the above quote serious?
Because if that's part of why you're suspicious of him, I think it's ridiculous, as you're twisting his words to imply something that I in no way heard him say.
I'm beginning to think that you and I just are not on the same wavelength.
They cannot. They have used their one Connection request for the day.
They cannot. Once the PM is sent they have used their one request for that day.
Vote Zebi. Ten Azrael points if you can tell me why I did it.
We're going to have fun this game, aren't we.