All of her early posts come off very non-town. She completely disregarded the negative effects of her posts. She doesn't care if we lynch her or not. This is not scum attitude. The case against her isn't a "she's scum" case, its a "she isn't acting town" case. She is in no means cleared in my books, shes just been playing so recklessly that it doesn't make sense to me for her to be scum. If she's kept alive tonight she at least gives us a good starting point for day two.
My biggest problem is that if she is town it's too easy for scum to point to a few posts and start a wagon on her. Seeing as she has given us enough material to build a semi-decent argument it would be hard to identify scum on her wagon. If shes lynched and flips town we go down 0-2 over night with little idea of where to direct power roles. This is quite possibly the worst case scenario for us right now, as we could end up down 3 town if there's a SK or a rogue Vig, with a wasted or semi-wasted night.
If you read the line above that TFF, you would see that Paellin said the case was too weak with a whole paragraph, so I would assume its a typo.
Also, quoting people is overrated.
@Seppel:
@Sheep: We are friends, your fun to kill though
@Manders: The whole "seppel play" looks like flailing and not knowing what you are doing, but I seem to recall you have played a few games, How many have you played?
@Paellin: I agree that MH hasnt pushed people or built weak cases, but being random and wanting to die is not a town additude, and I would consider that a point against her much more than anything in her favor.
@Loran: Why arent you dead?
@Joboman: You seem to be posting a lot for a mod, why?
@rest of town: Be more interesting.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
My biggest problem is that if she is town it's too easy for scum to point to a few posts and start a wagon on her. Seeing as she has given us enough material to build a semi-decent argument it would be hard to identify scum on her wagon. If shes lynched and flips town we go down 0-2 over night with little idea of where to direct power roles. This is quite possibly the worst case scenario for us right now, as we could end up down 3 town if there's a SK or a rogue Vig, with a wasted or semi-wasted night.
My biggest problem with this line of thinking is that this reasoning can be used to deter from any wagon ever forming and anyone ever being lynched.
All of her early posts come off very non-town. She completely disregarded the negative effects of her posts. She doesn't care if we lynch her or not. This is not scum attitude. The case against her isn't a "she's scum" case, its a "she isn't acting town" case. She is in no means cleared in my books, shes just been playing so recklessly that it doesn't make sense to me for her to be scum. If she's kept alive tonight she at least gives us a good starting point for day two.
My biggest problem is that if she is town it's too easy for scum to point to a few posts and start a wagon on her. Seeing as she has given us enough material to build a semi-decent argument it would be hard to identify scum on her wagon. If shes lynched and flips town we go down 0-2 over night with little idea of where to direct power roles. This is quite possibly the worst case scenario for us right now, as we could end up down 3 town if there's a SK or a rogue Vig, with a wasted or semi-wasted night.
S-so you agree that MandersHex was non-town but you don't think she's scum. This either means that she was playing a very bad town game relative to her usual play (unlikely) or that she's scum (more likely). Don't WIFOM yourself out of the clearly more logical of the two possibililties.
Syrenz got first post in AB mafia.
Vote: Cyan Just because.
Obviously just participating in the random stage.
Indeed, it was.
Unvote,
Vote: Bilbroxain
FoS jskura
More Random voting
stuff
Yet again, more random stuff.
Joke or not, my vote is serious.
This post draws attention to her, starting the path out of the random phase.
Jeez, ruin all my fun.
I saw it as an opportunity to gauge reactions. Unfortunately, I think it failed as no one really responded badly.
Oh, well.
Response to questioning about her earlier post.
She didn't back up her 'serious vote' which could be proof that she really was still acting in the random stage. Her response to questioning isn't unbelievable either.
Ah, so which one is it Cyan? Mwahahaha!
Shows that she does not feel threatened by Cyan's observation. Could be read as using humour to divert, although that is questionable seeing as she isn't diverting to anything.
Response to my questions.
Concise, logical rebuttals.
Oops, Unvote
This post should not have been over looked. No one commented about her leaving her vote up, yet she took it down anyways. This is one of the little details scum are more likely to gloss over and miss.
Vote: creampuffeater just cause. I forgot you were in this game. Nice to play with you.
Clearly another random vote.
Smoke & Mirrors
This is the first post where she really starts acting strange. In a way, shes just defending herself by asking people to take a serious look at whats happened so far. Encouraging people to do re-reads and think about things in different contexts is fairly pro-town.
Ugh, so, is this what you're all needing? FINE
When I voted Bilbroxain, it was random.
Then, I decided to say it was serious to gauge reactions.
End of story.
GAH! Just ruin all my fun.
I'm bored, let's soft-claim gender. Who's /in?!?
Repeating what she said earlier to increasing hostility. The answer still holds up in my books. As town, she wouldn't have any incentive to give any other answer as she would be telling the truth. Last line is pretty obviously a joke.
Really not surprised, at all.
Response to TFF's response to her last post, nothing unusual.
Ah, someone with some sense!
Now, my friend, what was my alignment/role in that game?
Response to Alpha's post about the MH dilemma. Refers to Anita Blake where MH was Town Bodyguard.
Second, how would a PR like that mean I'm scum?
Reply to Asians vote. She clearly doesn't have a PR that involves posting emotes, so this can be dismissed.
Answers questions
Pretty much exactly what is expected by this point from her. She brings up some valid points though, like how we were brought back into the random stage, giving EVERYONE credible reasons to post "scummy" votes.
(Seriously, I'm just being silly and it'll probably stop soon-ish.)
She obviously was being silly, whether that means shes scum or town is semantics though.
They're never satisfied until I'm dead town or claimed PR town.
In all seriousness, guys, is this really enough to lynch me? If so, go for it. Not a big loss for the town.
Brings up some valid points. Town can often be blood thirsty.
If I have to explain it to you, then I'm questioning you very much so.
What town member is not a big loss to be mislynched Zebi?
Hints at being Town Vanilla. Not a strike for or against.
Responses to posts
Important part here is she says that she'll stop being silly. Seeing as she hasn't posted enough since then to know if thats true or not, its impossible to say what that will change right now. She also votes lrd for being jumpy here.
Going over all of her posts, none of them really had any subtle scuminess to them, just the obvious in your face bludgeoning she did right at the beginning. I believe that MandersHex is town and just had an idea backfire on her. She's answered for the one action she made that was over-the-top-scummy.
Obviously the case that MH was being 'silly' and that one post was obviously not a regular town post exists but she hasn't done anything remotely scummy since then, and hasn't shown any tells at all. She's just been encouraging people to think about the game.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Okay, could someone fill me in on how smoke killer is more scummy than Manders?
His post is clearly scummy if Manders is scum, but if not, then he's--relieving pressure from a townie? I guess he still ends up looking suspicious, but I don't see him as likely to be mafia as Manders.
Also, Paelin is probably town (though I completely disagree with his or her thinking).
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
For the most part, I agree.
Although, I'm not as convinced on Smoke_Killah as you are. More on that later.
I'll also add Archmage Eternal to the like pile, though.
I'm willing to give MH the benefit of doubt. The way she's played has been so pointless that her explanation really does make the most sense.
Looking at lrd now, his vote on her doesn't seem natural and he may be using his humor as a distraction technique. Is that the way he normally plays?
See, when I read this, it was apparent to me that the Unvote and the bit about me were not related, as I knew he wasn't voting for me.
However, I can see where you're coming from Seppel, and either is a likely explanation, so I'm comfy with an FoS: Smoke_Killah
I had people yell at me for bein silly and formatting all my posts into a haiku one game. (as mentioned in teh signup thread) that almost got me into hot water.
Look at my town games sometime. Even when I don't act silly, someone always thinks I'm scum.
No
Why do you object to a gender soft-claim at this time?
(Yes, I was serious when I posted this)
Any loss of a town is a big loss, whether it be a vanilla or a power role. It means one step closer to losing, and one step closer for a scum win.
I disagree with this statement. Any town loss is a loss, but not a big loss, meaning it's ok for a townie to sacrifice him/her self if it is in the best interests of the town. See Cantripmancer in Indiana Jones. We lynched him because he had a detrimental item that needed to be taken out. We won that game, too.
I would definitely agree that a vanilla would be the most favourable if a town were to die. Still would be a definite loss.
See, now we're thinkin alike.
Oh and
Can be listed as correct, since we are in a town in terms of bein at South Park:cool2:.
We should be spending more time analyzing others to determine who is likely to be scum, and less time trying to rush lynch MH and end day one. If we end the day with no real evidence against anyone else, we'll have to start over, only without MH and the NK target. Also, any night abilities could be potentially wasted as we don't have any real idea of what specific roles should do.
@Manders: The whole "seppel play" looks like flailing and not knowing what you are doing, but I seem to recall you have played a few games, How many have you played?
All she's doing is confusing all of us. This is not like her town play was, in Anita Blake 2 for example.
I will apologize for the confusion. It has ceased.
I reviewed this game, paying attention to myself specifically.
When you take away the silliness, I am playing like my town play. I'm asking questions and probing for slip-ups.
I was hoping someone else would have picked up on this and stated it because now it's a null tell since I brought it up, but no one has and I can't rely on Cyan to say it, even though he knows it's true. Bah.
YOU WERE NOT VOTING MANDERS. YOU CANNOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO RELIEVE PRESSURE FROM YOUR SCUMBUDDY.
VOTE SMOKE_KILLAH AS HARD AS I CAN
So, like I said earlier, I took it as the two being seperate. I doubt I'm the only person that did.
Therefore, from my point of view, you are the one that is making it look like that. IGMEOY as well, but not as much as Cyan.
S-so you agree that MandersHex was non-town but you don't think she's scum. This either means that she was playing a very bad town game relative to her usual play (unlikely) or that she's scum (more likely). Don't WIFOM yourself out of the clearly more logical of the two possibililties.
Why didn't you mention the fact you didn't like my wagon jump at the time?
This is in my estimation, the third time you have tried to deflect away from your wagon.
Because I hadn't decided if it was a votable offense yet, and it wasn't until the post I quoted when I voted for you that I decided it was.
And what was your reasoning?
'Don't like his play'
Where did I say that I voted you because I didn't like your play?
Quote it.
Hint: I am not normally high.
Wow, using this as an excuse for odd behavior.
At least I manned up to my bull☺☺☺☺ reason.
Surely for Smoke to be relieving pressure on his scumbuddy, Manders would also have to be scum. Why not vote her then?
Just because you're going for the easy mislynch doesn't mean all your buddies are.
Is it just me who has noticed the sheer number of times MH has been sucking up to people this game.
And?
Yeah or you saw two votes on me and thought you wanted to jump on the wagon.
Psst, hey. There's almost always a town-ish reason and a scum-ish reason for every action.
This is your quote. (Note, MH had a format fail initially, so the first quote is from someone else, and the * is to stop another format fail.)
Not liking lrd[/*quote]
Nor am I, especially after this:
This was followed by
So yeah, I think what I said was fair that you voted me because you didn't like my play.
Really, because you left out the beginning of the post. Allow me to post it here for you.
AE said this:
Don't like how lrd jumps on the wagon. Don't like the reasoning.
then I said:
Nor did I.
then AE said this:
Not liking lrd
then I said this:
Nor am I, especially after this:
Quote from lrd »
What I meant to say was that MH's play didn't feel like her scum play or her town play. However, the overriding feeling was that it wasn't like her town play, hence the vote. And I still do feel this way.
Jumpy much?
Unvote, Vote: lrd
So, there you see, I voted you for two reasons, neither of which is because I don't like your play. They are specific reasons.
Ok, apparently I have to spell it out for you.
I don't appreciate this subtle knock on my intelligence, scum.
I have a posting restriction. Hence my jokey play. I thought the way I said it was clear enough, but obviously not.
See, problem is, you'd already mentioned being high in that post, so why did you respond to this the way you did?
@MH - out of interest, what do you think of Seppel?
@MH
With what I know about the South Park-verse, I really doubt there would be much use of a gender claim. IIRC, there is a heavy skew to one of the genders. If a soft claim were to happen, I think kid vs adult would be the better way to go. And your example of what happened in Indy Jones mafia isnt really a relevant one, since you lynched due to the item, not because he was town. Considering I dont see any items in this game, there should be no reason for a town to sac themself. And which pile were you wanting to add AE to? Like or dont like? And all I can see about you on Seppel is that he is a cheesy bastard?
@lrd: I did notice she's been bouncing around with the sucking up, almost like she's pretending to be a bong being passed around or something (realllllly bad comparison, but I wanna see something)
@Asian: No chance of MH being a neutral? We have 22 people. Like I said in my last post, I'm willing to bet there is at least one other neutral (other than poor Syrenz who is already dead)
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W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Well, I consider the weakest form of attention what I am currently doing to you by talking directly to someone. No need for those silly little IGMEOY or FoS. just nice conversation to get the thread rolling along.
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More people should be voting MH. Her 'would I act this way as scum' defense is pretty much as terrible as it gets.
Why is that so terrible? At worst it's WIFOM, but not terrible.
It seems to me like MH was trying to have a little fun early on in a game. Does that clear her, no, but it doesn't make her scum. I too was having a little fun with Zebi and loran, does that make me scum if I asked, "Would I act that way as scum?"
Why is that so terrible? At worst it's WIFOM, but not terrible.
It seems to me like MH was trying to have a little fun early on in a game. Does that clear her, no, but it doesn't make her scum. I too was having a little fun with Zebi and loran, does that make me scum if I asked, "Would I act that way as scum?"
Nobody goes from random voting to real mafia BACK to random voting. MH was under pressure and made a mistake by trying to act like she was still in the random voting stage.
These kinds of mistakes while under pressure are classic scum tells.
Nobody goes from random voting to real mafia BACK to random voting. MH was under pressure and made a mistake by trying to act like she was still in the random voting stage.
These kinds of mistakes while under pressure are classic scum tells.
If feel Cyan is being Cyan and is not going to relent on Manders for the time being. I still don't think she to be scum. But I think he has created a good in for scum to jump on and that being lrd and bol.
Fake-FoS CPE: You are baiting him into posting more.
YOU WERE NOT VOTING MANDERS. YOU CANNOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO RELIEVE PRESSURE FROM YOUR SCUMBUDDY.
VOTE SMOKE_KILLAH AS HARD AS I CAN
Errr no? Seriously dude....NOBODY DOES THIS. Nobody thinks oh, i should make it look like i'm coming off of a scummy looking player by unvoting when i was never wagoning him! NOBODY.
What happens instead is quite simply people forget that they weren't voting a player they thought was scummy. Happens all the time.
---------------------------------------------------------------
@lrd- You can talk about having a posting restriction, hmmm? I call shenanigans. also, I'm voting you for being scum. kthxbye.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
@Loran/AE - are you just gonna sit there and say that I'm scum, or are you actually going to analyse anything?
Why don't you believe I have a PR Loran?
Ummm, because people usually can't talk about their own PR and can't admit to having one so openly.
And i already quoted the pretty obvious scum money-quote. It's pretty damning, and you haven't done anything really much better.
Can we please let Smoke answer this question/issue.
He can answer it. But what do you think about it? Do you really agree with Seppel on this?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Got you.
Then why did you call him my buddy? I assume you meant scum buddy, and yet you think he is town....
I said he seems town, but I could easily see him being your scumbuddy what with the interactions.
The post you had quoted was from me, clearly talking to Seppel and no-one else at all.
So? Are we supposed to just disregard it because it wasn't directed at us?:rolleyes:
It just reads to me that by calling people 'my friend' maeks it seem like you're trying to get on their good side.
Meh, if I thought people could be bought with stuff like that, I'd have started doing that long ago. However, I'm smarter than that.
Hmmm ok. Still seems like a very weak vote for me.
I'm sure it does.
It seemed like a fitting way to respond.
So, it's fitting to not answer people's questions? We all know you're not really high right now. Or, if you are, then you probably are usually, making this defense a lie.
Nobody goes from random voting to real mafia BACK to random voting. MH was under pressure and made a mistake by trying to act like she was still in the random voting stage.
These kinds of mistakes while under pressure are classic scum tells.
You know, I've defended your points on me the only way I can. If you have new points to bring up, I'll be happy to defend myself from them, too.
Until then, I'm going to move forward. I'm town, you're wrong, and one way or another, I'm sure you'll know it soon enough (if you don't already).
Fixed. Yeah I don't like Bol. Thanks for outing your bud so early.
He's triggered the ol' scumdar, for sure. I'm watching him. Nothing too bad yet.
I took it he did.
Haha, missed that.
If feel Cyan is being Cyan and is not going to relent on Manders for the time being. I still don't think she to be scum. But I think he has created a good in for scum to jump on and that being lrd and bol.
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
S-so you agree that MandersHex was non-town but you don't think she's scum. This either means that she was playing a very bad town game relative to her usual play (unlikely) or that she's scum (more likely). Don't WIFOM yourself out of the clearly more logical of the two possibililties.
Nobody goes from random voting to real mafia BACK to random voting. MH was under pressure and made a mistake by trying to act like she was still in the random voting stage.
These kinds of mistakes while under pressure are classic scum tells.
it was apparent to me that the Unvote and the bit about me were not related, as I knew he wasn't voting for me.
However, I can see where you're coming from Seppel, and either is a likely explanation
So, Seppel misinterprets an unvote, you realize his obvious misinterpretation, but agree with his reasoning anyway? Huh??
-I can't read this as honest town reasoning. Much more likely an attempt at deflecting.
Quote from MH »
Why do you object to a gender soft-claim at this time?
As much as I love soft claims, this doesn't seem like a helpful idea at all. I liked the child/adult idea, though.
Quote from MH »
it's ok for a townie to sacrifice him/her self if it is in the best interests of the town.
Sacrifice for some greater good? -Sure.
Sacrifice for a 1-for-1 trade with scum? -Awesome.
Sacrifice in the name of silliness? -Clearly not okay.
Obviously the case that MH was being 'silly' and that one post was obviously not a regular town post exists but she hasn't done anything remotely scummy since then, and hasn't shown any tells at all. She's just been encouraging people to think about the game.
I am feeling a little better about MandersHex due to her recent posts but I know that she's good enough to be able to pull this play as scum. Whether she's ballsy enough is a different story altogether, but I could convince myself either way.
@Asian: No chance of MH being a neutral? We have 22 people. Like I said in my last post, I'm willing to bet there is at least one other neutral (other than poor Syrenz who is already dead)
There is a chance of that as well. I meant to bring up the possibility but must have forgotten to. At any rate a neutral who is not acting in a pro-town manner should not be kept alive. A vig may consider killing her.
The arguments against lrd and smoke_Killah have merit as well, but I think they are dependent on MandersHex's alignment to some extent, especially in lrd's case.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
also, don't expect to see me the rest of the week. I'm graduating!!!
Congrats!!!:toot::hifive::cheers:
RE: Soft claims
Dont want to see one done D1. As much as it might "lock in" someone to a claim, I think there are way too many characters that could be chosen from no matter which way a soft claim was done for it to be useful without having any solid evidence about anything.
Anywho, just got home from work. poppin some tylenol, gettin dinner started, will be back with a good post.
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I think a soft claim of some sort would be a very good idea. It doesn't have to be something big--I don't remember who, but someone suggested a kid/adult claim, and though I don't know much about south park, something along those lines would be a good idea.
Softclaims are usually at least a bit helpful, and as long as we choose one without much risk, there shouldn't be any problems of outing our power.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I think a soft claim of some sort would be a very good idea. It doesn't have to be something big--I don't remember who, but someone suggested a kid/adult claim, and though I don't know much about south park, something along those lines would be a good idea.
Softclaims are usually at least a bit helpful, and as long as we choose one without much risk, there shouldn't be any problems of outing our power.
I think a soft claim of some sort would be a very good idea. It doesn't have to be something big--I don't remember who, but someone suggested a kid/adult claim, and though I don't know much about south park, something along those lines would be a good idea.
Softclaims are usually at least a bit helpful, and as long as we choose one without much risk, there shouldn't be any problems of outing our power.
I was the one to suggest it.
However, I just think that it wouldnt be all that useful at the current time since there are so many characters (it's a friggen town!) for scum to hide behind. Especially with how we are sitting right now. How would we determine an order for it? I personally havent seen anything quite yet that makes me want to jump up and scream scum at a person yet. So would that just mean it would be random based on who came into the thread? We would never see a soft claim from CPE then. It would just a logistical nightmare to try to put together at this point. I could definitely see doing it D2 after we have some hard evidence of at least 1 person (today's lynch), probably 2 (a NK) to go off of, and connections that could be made.
Also, I'm an idiot for buying the wrong type of food. I actually have to cook it in my stove instead of my microwave, which makes me a sad hungry beaver.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
However, I just think that it wouldnt be all that useful at the current time since there are so many characters (it's a friggen town!) for scum to hide behind. Especially with how we are sitting right now. How would we determine an order for it? I personally havent seen anything quite yet that makes me want to jump up and scream scum at a person yet. So would that just mean it would be random based on who came into the thread? We would never see a soft claim from CPE then. It would just a logistical nightmare to try to put together at this point. I could definitely see doing it D2 after we have some hard evidence of at least 1 person (today's lynch), probably 2 (a NK) to go off of, and connections that could be made.
F-for soft claims order doesn't generally matter. Hell, I'll go first.
Also, I'm an idiot for buying the wrong type of food. I actually have to cook it in my stove instead of my microwave, which makes me a sad hungry beaver.
The last part of my post had absolutely nothing to do with the game.
I was just upset with myself for obv not reading the packaging at the store and instead just threw it into the cart. It will be delicious, but it's going to be delicious like, 40 minutes later than I wanted it to be.
And boo at claiming before even half the game comments on it. Bad Asian. Bad!
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Her play has been pointless random nonsense, her explanation was a calculated ploy to draw reactions. How is this lining up??
This explanation:
(Seriously, I'm just being silly and it'll probably stop soon-ish.)
? If that seems like "a calculated ploy to draw reactions" that's cool, I guess, but I disagree. Not saying that she hasn't been acting strangely, or scummy even, just that I am willing to buy that was just trying to be silly and have some fun.
YOU WERE NOT VOTING MANDERS. YOU CANNOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO RELIEVE PRESSURE FROM YOUR SCUMBUDDY.
No, I wasn't voting MH. Never said that I was. I was voting you, and I unvoted you once the RVS started to wind down, and after the VC showed that joboman did give you "AI's" vote.
VOTE SMOKE_KILLAH AS HARD AS I CAN
Is that what you call trying harder? Bold and allcaps? Lame
Is it scummy to call someone's PR out and guess their character? Or is it too much gaming the mod and mostly useless
Usually the latter.
I don't care one way or the other about a soft-claim, whatever the majority decides is cool with me.
Ninja Edit: Ummm, I see you have already started...
Don't think most people have weighed in on that, but as I said don't really care.
Hmmm, I wonder if I can survive a whole game without quoting.
@All: I am not a lurker
@Softclaimers: While the idea may have some merit, usually its better to discuss it fully before you all start throwing information out there. I currently am not in favor of this claim as it does not seem beneficial too the town, as there are so many kid and adult characters you arent limiting anything.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
This explanation:? If that seems like "a calculated ploy to draw reactions" that's cool, I guess, but I disagree. Not saying that she hasn't been acting strangely, or scummy even, just that I am willing to buy that was just trying to be silly and have some fun.
I was referring to her explanation of the "serious vote."
Jeez, ruin all my fun.
I saw it as an opportunity to gauge reactions.
First she said it was serious, then she claimed she didn't mean it and only was attempting to draw reactions, and then she started acting silly so people would stop paying attention to her.
She was definitely lying about her motivations somewhere in there, probably several times. -And that earns her a vote.
@Softclaimers: While the idea may have some merit, usually its better to discuss it fully before you all start throwing information out there. I currently am not in favor of this claim as it does not seem beneficial too the town, as there are so many kid and adult characters you arent limiting anything.
Errr no? Seriously dude....NOBODY DOES THIS. Nobody thinks oh, i should make it look like i'm coming off of a scummy looking player by unvoting when i was never wagoning him! NOBODY.
It would be quite funny to make me a beaver, but is there even a beaver character in SP? I dont ever remember seeing one, but I only watch every once in a while when I am terribly bored.
Suspicious of you 3 for wanting to soft claim so quickly, especially since I dont even think 1/4 of us have weighed in on it. :Psyduck:<-- He's watching you.
She was definitely lying about her motivations somewhere in there, probably several times. -And that earns her a vote.
Agreed. Lying is definitely not the best thing to do, especially early on. Her latter posts have been helping her out though, but we can definitely have watch her too.
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Umm.. what? Explain this, please.
My biggest problem is that if she is town it's too easy for scum to point to a few posts and start a wagon on her. Seeing as she has given us enough material to build a semi-decent argument it would be hard to identify scum on her wagon. If shes lynched and flips town we go down 0-2 over night with little idea of where to direct power roles. This is quite possibly the worst case scenario for us right now, as we could end up down 3 town if there's a SK or a rogue Vig, with a wasted or semi-wasted night.
Also, quoting people is overrated.
@Seppel:
@Sheep: We are friends, your fun to kill though
@Manders: The whole "seppel play" looks like flailing and not knowing what you are doing, but I seem to recall you have played a few games, How many have you played?
@Paellin: I agree that MH hasnt pushed people or built weak cases, but being random and wanting to die is not a town additude, and I would consider that a point against her much more than anything in her favor.
@Loran: Why arent you dead?
@Joboman: You seem to be posting a lot for a mod, why?
@rest of town: Be more interesting.
And that's why assuming is bad, as it clearly was not a typo.
-But she only started acting silly after her vote and backpedal, when she was trying to convince us to not take her seriously.
My biggest problem with this line of thinking is that this reasoning can be used to deter from any wagon ever forming and anyone ever being lynched.
Fake-FoS CPE: You are baiting him into posting more.
YOU WERE NOT VOTING MANDERS. YOU CANNOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO RELIEVE PRESSURE FROM YOUR SCUMBUDDY.
VOTE SMOKE_KILLAH AS HARD AS I CAN
S-so you agree that MandersHex was non-town but you don't think she's scum. This either means that she was playing a very bad town game relative to her usual play (unlikely) or that she's scum (more likely). Don't WIFOM yourself out of the clearly more logical of the two possibililties.
Smoke is more likely scum than Manders in my eyes. Nice deflection, though. I want all three of you to hang.
Obviously just participating in the random stage.
More Random voting
Yet again, more random stuff.
This post draws attention to her, starting the path out of the random phase.
Response to questioning about her earlier post.
She didn't back up her 'serious vote' which could be proof that she really was still acting in the random stage. Her response to questioning isn't unbelievable either.
Shows that she does not feel threatened by Cyan's observation. Could be read as using humour to divert, although that is questionable seeing as she isn't diverting to anything.
Concise, logical rebuttals.
This post should not have been over looked. No one commented about her leaving her vote up, yet she took it down anyways. This is one of the little details scum are more likely to gloss over and miss.
Clearly another random vote.
This is the first post where she really starts acting strange. In a way, shes just defending herself by asking people to take a serious look at whats happened so far. Encouraging people to do re-reads and think about things in different contexts is fairly pro-town.
Repeating what she said earlier to increasing hostility. The answer still holds up in my books. As town, she wouldn't have any incentive to give any other answer as she would be telling the truth. Last line is pretty obviously a joke.
Response to TFF's response to her last post, nothing unusual.
Response to Alpha's post about the MH dilemma. Refers to Anita Blake where MH was Town Bodyguard.
Reply to Asians vote. She clearly doesn't have a PR that involves posting emotes, so this can be dismissed.
Pretty much exactly what is expected by this point from her. She brings up some valid points though, like how we were brought back into the random stage, giving EVERYONE credible reasons to post "scummy" votes.
She obviously was being silly, whether that means shes scum or town is semantics though.
Brings up some valid points. Town can often be blood thirsty.
Hints at being Town Vanilla. Not a strike for or against.
Important part here is she says that she'll stop being silly. Seeing as she hasn't posted enough since then to know if thats true or not, its impossible to say what that will change right now. She also votes lrd for being jumpy here.
Going over all of her posts, none of them really had any subtle scuminess to them, just the obvious in your face bludgeoning she did right at the beginning. I believe that MandersHex is town and just had an idea backfire on her. She's answered for the one action she made that was over-the-top-scummy.
Obviously the case that MH was being 'silly' and that one post was obviously not a regular town post exists but she hasn't done anything remotely scummy since then, and hasn't shown any tells at all. She's just been encouraging people to think about the game.
Seppel-gut I can believe in for once Unvote. Vote: Smoke Killah
Never apologize for the first wall of text, it's the second rebuttal to the response where it gets too long to read.
12-11? I'm losing track
That is a... pretty damn good find.
I guess you just... *puts sunglasses on*
Killed his smokescreen. (insert Roger Daltry scream here)
Unvote, vote smoke_killah
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
...weeded him out.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
His post is clearly scummy if Manders is scum, but if not, then he's--relieving pressure from a townie? I guess he still ends up looking suspicious, but I don't see him as likely to be mafia as Manders.
Also, Paelin is probably town (though I completely disagree with his or her thinking).
For the most part, I agree.
Although, I'm not as convinced on Smoke_Killah as you are. More on that later.
I'll also add Archmage Eternal to the like pile, though.
See, when I read this, it was apparent to me that the Unvote and the bit about me were not related, as I knew he wasn't voting for me.
However, I can see where you're coming from Seppel, and either is a likely explanation, so I'm comfy with an FoS: Smoke_Killah
Look at my town games sometime. Even when I don't act silly, someone always thinks I'm scum.
Why do you object to a gender soft-claim at this time?
(Yes, I was serious when I posted this)
I disagree with this statement. Any town loss is a loss, but not a big loss, meaning it's ok for a townie to sacrifice him/her self if it is in the best interests of the town. See Cantripmancer in Indiana Jones. We lynched him because he had a detrimental item that needed to be taken out. We won that game, too.
See, now we're thinkin alike.
Smartass.
Your refusal to consider any other possibility is not good. IGMEOY
How many games have you played in?
A few. See for yourself.
/barn
I will apologize for the confusion. It has ceased.
I reviewed this game, paying attention to myself specifically.
When you take away the silliness, I am playing like my town play. I'm asking questions and probing for slip-ups.
I was hoping someone else would have picked up on this and stated it because now it's a null tell since I brought it up, but no one has and I can't rely on Cyan to say it, even though he knows it's true. Bah.
So, like I said earlier, I took it as the two being seperate. I doubt I'm the only person that did.
Therefore, from my point of view, you are the one that is making it look like that. IGMEOY as well, but not as much as Cyan.
So, which are you leaning towards?
Because I hadn't decided if it was a votable offense yet, and it wasn't until the post I quoted when I voted for you that I decided it was.
Where did I say that I voted you because I didn't like your play?
Quote it.
Wow, using this as an excuse for odd behavior.
At least I manned up to my bull☺☺☺☺ reason.
Just because you're going for the easy mislynch doesn't mean all your buddies are.
Anything else to provide?
I disagree with this as well. imo, it's never tl;dr.
@Bilbroxain & Seppel - Cheesy bastards.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
And?
Psst, hey. There's almost always a town-ish reason and a scum-ish reason for every action.
Really, because you left out the beginning of the post. Allow me to post it here for you.
AE said this:
then I said:
then AE said this:
then I said this:
So, there you see, I voted you for two reasons, neither of which is because I don't like your play. They are specific reasons.
I don't appreciate this subtle knock on my intelligence, scum.
See, problem is, you'd already mentioned being high in that post, so why did you respond to this the way you did?
I've already posted my thoughts on Seppel.
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Come join ours!!
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@MH
With what I know about the South Park-verse, I really doubt there would be much use of a gender claim. IIRC, there is a heavy skew to one of the genders. If a soft claim were to happen, I think kid vs adult would be the better way to go. And your example of what happened in Indy Jones mafia isnt really a relevant one, since you lynched due to the item, not because he was town. Considering I dont see any items in this game, there should be no reason for a town to sac themself. And which pile were you wanting to add AE to? Like or dont like? And all I can see about you on Seppel is that he is a cheesy bastard?
@lrd: I did notice she's been bouncing around with the sucking up, almost like she's pretending to be a bong being passed around or something (realllllly bad comparison, but I wanna see something)
@Asian: No chance of MH being a neutral? We have 22 people. Like I said in my last post, I'm willing to bet there is at least one other neutral (other than poor Syrenz who is already dead)
I posted IGMEOY to Seppel because I was the first person to point out that he may be purposely "misunderstanding" Killah's post.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Hence, the weakest form of attention I could give him.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Also, thanks for answering for him. I'd like to hear what he has to say.
I did put him under suspicion too. You say that, right? He's not cleared, imo.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
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Why is that so terrible? At worst it's WIFOM, but not terrible.
It seems to me like MH was trying to have a little fun early on in a game. Does that clear her, no, but it doesn't make her scum. I too was having a little fun with Zebi and loran, does that make me scum if I asked, "Would I act that way as scum?"
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
0 Votes:
Infinis
Archmage Eternal
Bilbroxain
Cyan
AlphaInsidious
Nom_Anor
Jskura
Seppel
AsianInvasion
Flew
Paellin
Creampuffeater
The Foo Fish
Zebi
Other:
Lrd - 3 (Mandershex, Archmage_Eternal, Loran16)
Dropkickdude - 1 (Zebi)
Mandershex - 5 (The Foo Fish, lrd, AsianInvasion, Nom_Anor, Cyan)
Bolmedias - 1 (AlphaInsidious)
Loran16 - 2 (Creampuffeater, Dropkickdude)
Smoke_killah - 3 (Seppel, Bilbroxain, Infinis)
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Nobody goes from random voting to real mafia BACK to random voting. MH was under pressure and made a mistake by trying to act like she was still in the random voting stage.
These kinds of mistakes while under pressure are classic scum tells.
Fixed. Yeah I don't like Bol. Thanks for outing your bud so early.
I took it he did.
If feel Cyan is being Cyan and is not going to relent on Manders for the time being. I still don't think she to be scum. But I think he has created a good in for scum to jump on and that being lrd and bol.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Errr no? Seriously dude....NOBODY DOES THIS. Nobody thinks oh, i should make it look like i'm coming off of a scummy looking player by unvoting when i was never wagoning him! NOBODY.
What happens instead is quite simply people forget that they weren't voting a player they thought was scummy. Happens all the time.
---------------------------------------------------------------
@lrd- You can talk about having a posting restriction, hmmm? I call shenanigans. also, I'm voting you for being scum. kthxbye.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Ummm, because people usually can't talk about their own PR and can't admit to having one so openly.
And i already quoted the pretty obvious scum money-quote. It's pretty damning, and you haven't done anything really much better.
He can answer it. But what do you think about it? Do you really agree with Seppel on this?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I said he seems town, but I could easily see him being your scumbuddy what with the interactions.
So? Are we supposed to just disregard it because it wasn't directed at us?:rolleyes:
Meh, if I thought people could be bought with stuff like that, I'd have started doing that long ago. However, I'm smarter than that.
I'm sure it does.
So, it's fitting to not answer people's questions? We all know you're not really high right now. Or, if you are, then you probably are usually, making this defense a lie.
Because he's Cyan and is probably convinced I'm THE MOST OBVIOUS SCUM EVER!!!
You know, I've defended your points on me the only way I can. If you have new points to bring up, I'll be happy to defend myself from them, too.
Until then, I'm going to move forward. I'm town, you're wrong, and one way or another, I'm sure you'll know it soon enough (if you don't already).
He's triggered the ol' scumdar, for sure. I'm watching him. Nothing too bad yet.
Haha, missed that.
/barn
Adding Loran to the list of people I like.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Why?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
It's mostly gut, but it's strong.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
So, Seppel misinterprets an unvote, you realize his obvious misinterpretation, but agree with his reasoning anyway? Huh??
-I can't read this as honest town reasoning. Much more likely an attempt at deflecting.
As much as I love soft claims, this doesn't seem like a helpful idea at all. I liked the child/adult idea, though.
Sacrifice for some greater good? -Sure.
Sacrifice for a 1-for-1 trade with scum? -Awesome.
Sacrifice in the name of silliness? -Clearly not okay.
I had the same suspicions as Loran regarding this, but I guess he wasn't lying about the PR?
Th-thanks.
I am feeling a little better about MandersHex due to her recent posts but I know that she's good enough to be able to pull this play as scum. Whether she's ballsy enough is a different story altogether, but I could convince myself either way.
I support this.
There is a chance of that as well. I meant to bring up the possibility but must have forgotten to. At any rate a neutral who is not acting in a pro-town manner should not be kept alive. A vig may consider killing her.
The arguments against lrd and smoke_Killah have merit as well, but I think they are dependent on MandersHex's alignment to some extent, especially in lrd's case.
12-11? I'm losing track
I think I know who (player) and who (character) you mean, and I don't see it being of much use at this point.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Y-Yes.
Revealing players' role names to the scum seems like a poor idea.
livin'a lie!
also, don't expect to see me the rest of the week. I'm graduating!!!
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Congrats!!!:toot::hifive::cheers:
RE: Soft claims
Dont want to see one done D1. As much as it might "lock in" someone to a claim, I think there are way too many characters that could be chosen from no matter which way a soft claim was done for it to be useful without having any solid evidence about anything.
Anywho, just got home from work. poppin some tylenol, gettin dinner started, will be back with a good post.
Softclaims are usually at least a bit helpful, and as long as we choose one without much risk, there shouldn't be any problems of outing our power.
My name is DKD, and I approve this message.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I was the one to suggest it.
However, I just think that it wouldnt be all that useful at the current time since there are so many characters (it's a friggen town!) for scum to hide behind. Especially with how we are sitting right now. How would we determine an order for it? I personally havent seen anything quite yet that makes me want to jump up and scream scum at a person yet. So would that just mean it would be random based on who came into the thread? We would never see a soft claim from CPE then. It would just a logistical nightmare to try to put together at this point. I could definitely see doing it D2 after we have some hard evidence of at least 1 person (today's lynch), probably 2 (a NK) to go off of, and connections that could be made.
Also, I'm an idiot for buying the wrong type of food. I actually have to cook it in my stove instead of my microwave, which makes me a sad hungry beaver.
F-for soft claims order doesn't generally matter. Hell, I'll go first.
I'm a kid.
Really, Niv/joboman? Really?
I was just upset with myself for obv not reading the packaging at the store and instead just threw it into the cart. It will be delicious, but it's going to be delicious like, 40 minutes later than I wanted it to be.
And boo at claiming before even half the game comments on it. Bad Asian. Bad!
I'm also a kid.
AsianInvasion: Kid
Nom_Anor: Kid
As am I.
AsianInvasion: Kid
Nom_Anor: Kid
dropkickdude: Kid
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
This explanation: ? If that seems like "a calculated ploy to draw reactions" that's cool, I guess, but I disagree. Not saying that she hasn't been acting strangely, or scummy even, just that I am willing to buy that was just trying to be silly and have some fun.
No, I wasn't voting MH. Never said that I was. I was voting you, and I unvoted you once the RVS started to wind down, and after the VC showed that joboman did give you "AI's" vote.
Is that what you call trying harder? Bold and allcaps? Lame
See above.
NO ONE can answer for me
Usually the latter.
I don't care one way or the other about a soft-claim, whatever the majority decides is cool with me.
Ninja Edit: Ummm, I see you have already started...
Don't think most people have weighed in on that, but as I said don't really care.
smoke_Killah
@All: I am not a lurker
@Softclaimers: While the idea may have some merit, usually its better to discuss it fully before you all start throwing information out there. I currently am not in favor of this claim as it does not seem beneficial too the town, as there are so many kid and adult characters you arent limiting anything.
I was referring to her explanation of the "serious vote."
First she said it was serious, then she claimed she didn't mean it and only was attempting to draw reactions, and then she started acting silly so people would stop paying attention to her.
She was definitely lying about her motivations somewhere in there, probably several times. -And that earns her a vote.
/barn
/barn
It would be quite funny to make me a beaver, but is there even a beaver character in SP? I dont ever remember seeing one, but I only watch every once in a while when I am terribly bored.
Suspicious of you 3 for wanting to soft claim so quickly, especially since I dont even think 1/4 of us have weighed in on it. :Psyduck:<-- He's watching you.
Agreed. Lying is definitely not the best thing to do, especially early on. Her latter posts have been helping her out though, but we can definitely have watch her too.