I don't think Dagger's statement about color randomization means that every instance of color in the role pms is randomized. The way I interpreted it, the way he would do a role like SB claimed is to write it as "Color X," and give him the ability to change people into Color X and the win-con to turn more people into Color X than some other player can turn Color Y. Then all the colors would be randomized, but SB would always turn people into the color he starts off as. Otherwise, having color as a mechanic would be difficult to balance.
That makes sense and would explain the randomness of gold and orange.
/barn on everyone saying that we should vig kpaca first, if we do end up vigging anyone.
loran: Granted I have never really been part of a scum team trying a gambit, but that seems unnecessarily complicated. I'll have to think about it more, but I don't think that SB and kpaca are part of a team pulling off something that large.
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Damnit... my post was deleted halfway through, I'm not typing it all out again. English homework is more important.
@DM: For your first point towards me, AI voted me for no stated reason, and kept it on, he looked like he was passively bashing me without any justifications other than gut feeling. I didn't like his style because it was moderately aggresive and vindictive. Agreeing with someone is not synomonous with liking their style.
As for your second point, others would also include Syrenz, who generally agreed with the post Zajnet made. Kpaca claiming the second half of the colour-changing game and stating that he knows that the orange-ified players won't be notified while Stormblind believed his targets were notified (or he was unsure, I don't remember now and I'm in a hurry) When Stormbling pipped up saying he got clarification from Dagger, that pretty much confirms that they both exist, kpaca randomly saying something to the contrary of SB would be an extremely bad blunder if he was falseclaiming, and the fact that Dagger did notify SB would mean that if kpaca was lying then he got a damn good shot in the dark as to how SB's role was supposed to work.
I don't see how it could be anything else, unless they were scumbuddies with daytalk, but those odds are slim to none.
As for your second point, others would also include Syrenz, who generally agreed with the post Zajnet made. Kpaca claiming the second half of the colour-changing game and stating that he knows that the orange-ified players won't be notified while Stormblind believed his targets were notified (or he was unsure, I don't remember now and I'm in a hurry) When Stormbling pipped up saying he got clarification from Dagger, that pretty much confirms that they both exist, kpaca randomly saying something to the contrary of SB would be an extremely bad blunder if he was falseclaiming, and the fact that Dagger did notify SB would mean that if kpaca was lying then he got a damn good shot in the dark as to how SB's role was supposed to work.
I don't see how it could be anything else, unless they were scumbuddies with daytalk, but those odds are slim to none.
Daytalk or no, it's nearly impossible for this to be a scum gambit.
Anyway, I've no strong scumreads at the present time. I'll do a quick reread, and hopefully come back with more.
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As for your second point, others would also include Syrenz, who generally agreed with the post Zajnet made. Kpaca claiming the second half of the colour-changing game and stating that he knows that the orange-ified players won't be notified while Stormblind believed his targets were notified (or he was unsure, I don't remember now and I'm in a hurry) When Stormbling pipped up saying he got clarification from Dagger, that pretty much confirms that they both exist, kpaca randomly saying something to the contrary of SB would be an extremely bad blunder if he was falseclaiming, and the fact that Dagger did notify SB would mean that if kpaca was lying then he got a damn good shot in the dark as to how SB's role was supposed to work.
I don't see how it could be anything else, unless they were scumbuddies with daytalk, but those odds are slim to none.
Oh, that makes sense. I apparently misunderstood what was meant by "confirmed." (I thought that you meant it was confirmed they were telling the full truth, which it doesn't). Unfortunately, that mostly voids my original reasoning on why you were scummy. Blah.
Unvote
I almost feel like we need another random vote stage or something. The first one was criminally short.
@DM: For your first point towards me, AI voted me for no stated reason, and kept it on, he looked like he was passively bashing me without any justifications other than gut feeling. I didn't like his style because it was moderately aggresive and vindictive. Agreeing with someone is not synomonous with liking their style.
So do you think he's scummy? Or did you just want him to clarify why he was voting you?
So do you think he's scummy? Or did you just want him to clarify why he was voting you?
Well, I wanted him to clarify why he voted me, it seemed very random in the non-random stage, and no more justification than veiled gut-references were made.
Tilde is a player on here that, while he admittedly has grown alot as a player, is known for coming up with absolutely ridiculous 'theories' that could not possibly have any basis in reality and insisting that they must be real.
Tilde is a player on here that, while he admittedly has grown alot as a player, is known for coming up with absolutely ridiculous 'theories' that could not possibly have any basis in reality and insisting that they must be real.
Such as 'Kpaca and SB are gambiting scum'.
Ah, much explained. Although I thought it was somebody else maintaining that silly theory. I must re-read. I need to clear up the whole neutral situation anyway, many things are still a little fuzzy.
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Seems I do not see some of your logic. I vaguely get why SB might have claimed neutral as scum, but see nothing on why it would be a remotely good idea for a second scum to claim neutral. So, why do you think that this would happen?
Do you believe that the possibility of kpaca and SB being mafia has any relevance in the best approach to dealing with them?
I've already told you my thought is that by day 4 the two ought to be vigged. That deals with the most likely scenario (neutrals with anti-town actions and possibly anti-town win conditions) as well as the less likely (mafia gambit)
Tilde is a player on here that, while he admittedly has grown alot as a player, is known for coming up with absolutely ridiculous 'theories' that could not possibly have any basis in reality and insisting that they must be real.
Such as 'Kpaca and SB are gambiting scum'.
Ow. That hurts me.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I think Vezok is town. Although I don't like that he's suddenly gone somewhat quiet lately. But by the same token, I didn't like him spamming it up at the start either. I s'pose I just want to don't have my cake, but don't want to eat it either.
vote: Zchinque. It shouldn't be just curiosity that makes you ask that question.
I didn't think of this when I first read this post.
I assume this is a random vote. If my assumption is correct, why did you care to make a post only to make a random vote, RobRoy?
Also, whether it's random or not, why didn't you put down the vote in your first post after I asked that question?
@Talore: Why so concerned with that one vote on you?
I'm gonna go ahead and Vote Talore. I didn't like his reaction to having a vote on him earlier, and I did not much care for his gentle attempt at guiding the cop in #138
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I didn't think of this when I first read this post.
I assume this is a random vote. If my assumption is correct, why did you care to make a post only to make a random vote, RobRoy?
Also, whether it's random or not, why didn't you put down the vote in your first post after I asked that question?
Not random. The phrasing didn't jump out at me until a reread, though.
I do not get bad vibes from Talore right now. Newer players generally want to know why people are voting for them. Talore simply asked for an explanation, which looks a lot better than him OMGUSing me or something to that extent.
I do not like how happy vezokpiraka is to barn with weak suspicion based on mediocre evidence but ultimately fence-sit. It's probably a n00b tell more than anything but I'll note it.
I do not understand what the discussion between Zchinque and RobRoy is about. I noticed RobRoy's vote and also noticed Zchinque's lag in responding to it but didn't think much about it because I wasn't sure what the reasoning behind the whole thing was. I have a slight town read on Zchinque and no read on RobRoy.
Dancing Mad and someone else asked me why I said I felt like Talore was town in post 101.
He had made like 4 posts or something like that at that point. They struck me as having good town reasoning in them. I could go back and pbpa his posts up to then, but honestly at that point the game was barely out of random and it seems kind of silly to do that. I'll do it if people want me to though.
I still think it would be fine to see what happens with kpaca/sb if we let them live a night, but as I said earlier if one is going to be vigged I would prefer Kpaca. They are easy vig targets later. For now I hope if we have a vig that they look for someone scummy instead.
Things are a lot less busy then they were for a couple of days. I'll try to post more. I actually have a tendency to post a lot when I have the time.
I will volunteer for this. I will point out for the benefit of everyone that I am a rational goo, and will say/do whatever is most likely to make me win the game.
First page, RR's first post. Takes a slightly selfish stance (WINTHEGAMERAWR!) and blindly volunteers.
Stormblind, you may turn me gold.
I assume that if you turn your rival gold or your rival turns you Color X the two of you would be able to target yourselves and turn yourselves your original color again. Otherwise, you outing yourself means your rival will target you and be at a huge advantage (-1 Gold +1 X) right off the bat with no hope for you to target yourself to reverse that swing.
vezokpiraka is probably town but is definitely annoying me.
Vote Talore
Vote on Talore for....Still haven't had the answer for this, seems right outta the blue for me.
Vote for Vigging: Stormblind. I call Cult-like role. I call anti-town. I no-trust him.
Also, i would strongly recommend the following:
There appears to be a mechanic here where at the very least multiple players have the ability to simply target another player....and do nothing that they know of.
Now, there are positive and negative implications of this mechanic. My point is this....i would like us to coordinate our targetting.
I'll go out and say this: I know that at least I have an ability that reads something like the following:
If X amount of people target me, I gain a one-shot ability.
I would suspect variants of such an ability exist on a few players at the least, and on both town and scum.
Which is why we should coordinate our targetting and do it out in the open....if we don't do it in the open and a scum player has such an ability, his fellow scum will (if they're not using other abilities) always use their targets on him, resulting in them more likely gaining the benefits of the mechanic.
---This is what happened in Tacronic mafia btw.
So, someone needs to keep track of the following:
Targetting_Choices_For_The_Next_Night.
Lay out all out night choices? For the scum to see all over the place? This is Loran bad idea numero uno.
Why? I'd be willing to target whoever it would be beneficial to target, but I think we need a bit more explanation. I'm assuming you have some ability that activates if X amount of people target you?
Also, why in the world would you expect SB's counterpart to come forward, when according to SB he is bad?
/agree on not doing anything to SB yet. I too put myself forward for goldifying.
Essentially barns SB's reasoning here and blindly volunteers. We now know that SB was partially, if not completly, lying about his role. Buranri barns lies here.
While we're speculating on the setup, I'm going to venture a guess that a cop or doc who works in the way you described probably can only affect one (maybe two) other players each Night.
Talore's vote on loran feels forced to me.
The only post I could find with explaination for that vote, and the explaination comes far after said vote. That Talore vote was serious and this post supports that.
I propose a mass claim. Everyone should claim their colors. It may tell us a lot later in the game.
Ugh, Vezok has had some bad posts this game, but this one takes the cake. Seriously, how could you think, in a color-based game, that revealing everyone's color is a good thing. This is the second worst idea I've seen all game, second only to Loran's 'reveal night targets!' idea.
Thanks to kpaca for coming forward. The design implications, though, are - as mentioned - interesting. People seem to be ignoring the fact that, as mentioned initially, "color is mutable". Presumably someone who is made golden (or orange) can be changed in other ways. If SB and kpaca's abilities do not inform the target of the change, presumably that adds on a colour instead of replacing. For one of the two to not trivially win should the other die, there must be abilities out there that replace colour instead of just adding on. That would also explain SB's ability to tell how many golds are out there.
I'm still in favour of leaving them alone for now, although I do support any vig shots being aimed at them. Once one dies we can more accurately evaluate the other one.
The end is kinda fencesitty there. 'Leave them alone, but vig them too!'. Nothing terrible, but note worthy IMO.
I agree with the first point. Regarding the second point, if there is a full vig who does not have any better targets, vigging Stormblind or kpaca would be fine by me, but a vig with a limited number of shots should aim to kill scum.
I feel somewhat better about Talore because he is relatively inexperienced.
Completly switches off the random Talore suspicion. I think this one slipped by the town. He voted, never explained it, then finds an excuse to jump off. Just awkward play by Asian, something I haven't seen him do in other games.
*cough* Mason Gambit *cough*. Clearly I've never seen that one before. Seems highly similar except here Rahl claimed first. If they're scum and have daytalk, it's quite possible that one of the following scenarios might have happened:
1. Rahl's "opposite" doesn't claim. If Rahl dies, he dies. Otherwise, the town keeps him alive and might trust him. Minimal exposure to the rest of the scum here even if Rahl dies.
2. Rahl's opposite claims and it's another scum member who ISNT kpaca. Same situation we're in now.
So a gambit here could easily have functioned as Rahl acting unilaterally, only to have a second scum jump in with him in kpaca. Rahl's quite insane enough to try something of this sort.
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Mind you, whatever they are, i'm strongly in favor of both dying by at least lets say day 4. Neither are town, both can very possibly have negative effects, etc etc. Note that even if they are neutral and harmless, theoretically the scum can turn one into a true survivor by killing off the other one. This would give an incentive to the survivor to help the winning side, which could very well be the scum (and probably will be if they're killing one of the two).
Anyhow, this is probably enough talk on this for now...we really ought to focus on the scummy players and leave these two for vigs.
Maintains the crazy theory. This is bad idea numero dos for Loran. I would say he's the strongest advocator of the Neutral death here. He's really neutral hunting instead of scum hunting.
/barn on everyone saying that we should vig kpaca first, if we do end up vigging anyone.
loran: Granted I have never really been part of a scum team trying a gambit, but that seems unnecessarily complicated. I'll have to think about it more, but I don't think that SB and kpaca are part of a team pulling off something that large.
The Address to Loran is really just a barn of everyone saying the theory is silly. So, this makes this post another Barn post, no content whatsoever.
I do not get bad vibes from Talore right now. Newer players generally want to know why people are voting for them. Talore simply asked for an explanation, which looks a lot better than him OMGUSing me or something to that extent.
I do not like how happy vezokpiraka is to barn with weak suspicion based on mediocre evidence but ultimately fence-sit. It's probably a n00b tell more than anything but I'll note it.
I do not understand what the discussion between Zchinque and RobRoy is about. I noticed RobRoy's vote and also noticed Zchinque's lag in responding to it but didn't think much about it because I wasn't sure what the reasoning behind the whole thing was. I have a slight town read on Zchinque and no read on RobRoy.
This game is stagnating, badly.
I really like how Asian completly and randomly backs away from Talore just as randomly as he jumped on him. I never understood the Talore vote and it just seems out of Asian's style.
So with that, FoS AsianInvasion, Buranri and Loran
That's really all I could dig up. Digging through the neutral conversation is hard and mixes up my thoughts.
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I'ma going with loran for poor speculation and fearmongering.
Vote: loran16
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Essentially barns SB's reasoning here and blindly volunteers. We now know that SB was partially, if not completly, lying about his role. Buranri barns lies here.
Great reasoning TACKY, except for this bit. Sure, he barned lies, but he had no way of knowing that he was barning lies, so this is no worse than any other /barn.
FoS: loran, Buranri, AI
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I'm not sure I see the scum-reasoning behind Loran's theory of a SB/kpaca scum gambit. If he had pushed for their lynch based on it, sure, but so far he hasn't done that. He's aggressive on them being vigged, but he's not alone in thinking that's a fine course of action.
Anyone care to walk me through how bringing up the gambit theory is advantageous to scumLoran?
That said, I was a bit surprised to see a player of his stature so willing to entertain a theory which has such poor odds for being correct.
His idea of making all targeting public was bad, and I do see why that would be beneficial for the scum.
Unvote. Talore's response to my vote gives me town-vibes.
@Mod: Can we get a prod on ChrisXIV? He's not posted since last month.
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Vote on Talore for....Still haven't had the answer for this, seems right outta the blue for me.
My vote on Talore was all gut, but there was no reason for me to say so initially. I wanted to see his reaction to pressure, and when I did, I didn't like it. When I found out that he's a new player I removed my vote because it explained the awkwardness I felt from his play.
Great reasoning TACKY, except for this bit. Sure, he barned lies, but he had no way of knowing that he was barning lies, so this is no worse than any other /barn.
FoS: loran, Buranri, AI
I also do not like how readily AE and Zajnet barned TACKY. It's almost as if they don't have opinions of their own.
I'm definitely very interested in loran, but I'm not one to vote for something like "suggesting bad plans". I'm more interested in analyzing the 'why'.
ced got it right: Advocating a bad plan is like being on a mislynch wagon; doing so is poor but not scummy in and of itself. loran could certainly be scum, but I don't think his plan makes him more likely than anyone else.
I await loran's response to the attacks against him.
Essentially barns SB's reasoning here and blindly volunteers. We now know that SB was partially, if not completly, lying about his role. Buranri barns lies here.
Praytell, what have i lied about? I've been nothing but straight forward, and even STATED that i didnt believe that my competitor was evil, but that it was merely flavor.
I would *REALLY* like to know what i lied about as Ive been nothing but open and honest about this since the start.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Praytell, what have i lied about? I've been nothing but straight forward, and even STATED that i didnt believe that my competitor was evil, but that it was merely flavor.
I would *REALLY* like to know what i lied about as Ive been nothing but open and honest about this since the start.
The only thing I can think of is the contradiction with people knowing that they've been turned gold and able to continue your work contrasting with that the people don't know that they've been turned.
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I'm definitely very interested in loran, but I'm not one to vote for something like "suggesting bad plans". I'm more interested in analyzing the 'why'.
FTR: Flew and TACKY need to go look for stuff I asked them in my earlier posts.
First, /barn the more analysis needed, hence my FoS and not a vote.
Also, can you link, or at least give me a general idea of where this question is. You've done this in other games, just calling that you have an unanswered question. I'll look, but I'd prefer a link of sorts.
Great reasoning TACKY, except for this bit. Sure, he barned lies, but he had no way of knowing that he was barning lies, so this is no worse than any other /barn.
FoS: loran, Buranri, AI
Ah, duh. It's still a barn, but I guess he wouldn't have knowledge of actual lies.
Praytell, what have i lied about? I've been nothing but straight forward, and even STATED that i didnt believe that my competitor was evil, but that it was merely flavor.
I would *REALLY* like to know what i lied about as Ive been nothing but open and honest about this since the start.
The only thing I can think of is the contradiction with people knowing that they've been turned gold and able to continue your work contrasting with that the people don't know that they've been turned.
This, combined with the Kpaca discripencies are the SB lies I reference. Also, I know you were basing it on flavor, but you were heavily implying that your counterpart was a very bad person. You were setting Kpaca up as a villian. Maybe not a lie, but heavy manipulation.
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I assume that this is the question you wanted me to answer, in reference to me saying I wanted to hear more from Talore.
Well, at the time Talore had few posts, and I think his first post of the game contained a serious vote. I was curious to hear more from him, maybe expand on his vote a bit, and he had gathered attention from other players so, I was curious to hear more.
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I'm going to /barn AsianI in saying that I don't like the way people racked up votes on loran like that. It seemed extremely opportunistic to hop on like that after TACKY's analysis. I'm interested in seeing how Loran responds to the sudden pressure on him though.
If someone else hasn't already said it, TACKY is probably town imo.
Although this seems to be a running theme in my interactions with him, SB failed to respond to my post asking him about the nature of the abilities he can confer to his targets, so I'm going to take the assumption contained therein (that he was heavily extrapolating that part based on setup speculation and he actually gives no abilities) as truth until I hear otherwise, and I maintain that he should be the first one vigged. If anyone's going to be vigging in this game. Which I doubt.
loran tried to get us to mass claim with his first post in Meadows...as town. Yes, his plan is a bad one. No, it doesn't make him scum. And I'd argue that at the time he made the "bad idea numero dos" post TACKY notes, everyone was neutral hunting.
Buranri is significantly more interesting to me. I'm getting a Duel Monsters vibe from him and his posts here are the same type of no-content going along to get along that he exhibited as scum in that game. I think I'm still voting AE (which actually is looking like a pretty good idea as he's my #2 target) so I'll unvote; vote Buranri.
I note plenty of barning going on here. Bad sign. There'll be at least 1 scum among them and the rest will be follow-the-leader vessels dancing to the tune of scum maestros.
Do I sound bad-tempered? Maybe I do. But it's late and my connection is terrible and I got prodded and it's way too early in this game for me to be posting at all.
FTR: Flew and TACKY need to go look for stuff I asked them in my earlier posts.
Found :
Quote from ced395 »
Why exactly don't you have a problem with your color being changed?
Because it does not change anything for me. Neither in a good way nor in a bad one.
///////////////////////////
I think I have a good read on some little things.
By the way, sorry but I have a very (And I mean very very) slow Internet connection, and thus it is hard for me to gather posts in multi-quotes, and it is even worse on a heavy website like MTGS, that's why I don't do it often.
See that it is only his first post, and he didn't include only random stuff like most people would do. The bolded sentence is about the volunteers to be goldified by StormBlind.
@loran16: It's good to see that you want somebody dead for little established reason. Why so vindictive with using a town vig when it could be easily proven if he's a cult leader or not? We don't even know yet if being gold gives you benefits. I call foul.
Vote loran16
Good points on loran. I note that Talore is one of the few players that use the debate about SB to analyse reactions that other players have about this debate, more than focusing SB himself.
Later, we see that Asianinvader, who's voted Talore in the random phase keeps his vote and try to add something to Talore's case at every post he make. This is the opposite of what I call a genuine accusation.
Later (Much much later) , AI unvoted and asked Talore how many games he has played. This looks like a scum that failed to push a wagon, searching for a reason to unvote.
From everything here my thoughts are on Talore town and AsianInvader scum. Refer to TACKY's post in the previous page for a very good analyse of the overall behaviour of AI.
Buranri is significantly more interesting to me. I'm getting a Duel Monsters vibe from him and his posts here are the same type of no-content going along to get along that he exhibited as scum in that game. I think I'm still voting AE (which actually is looking like a pretty good idea as he's my #2 target) so I'll unvote; vote Buranri.
I'm getting the Anita Blake no-content vibe from him actually.
Essentially barns SB's reasoning here and blindly volunteers. We now know that SB was partially, if not completly, lying about his role. Buranri barns lies here.
Yes, but at that point (IIRC) kpaca hadn't claimed yet, and it seemed true to me. Obviously now kpaca's claim screws everything up and makes my head hurt, but I think I am still willing to be goldified. If he is anti-town, well... Knowing my track record I'm likely to be lynched soon anyways If not, then it all works out.
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@ you two: Why do you place an FoS on multiple people without voting?
I can understand FoSing somebody if you already have a vote down.
I can just about understand FoSing one person at a stage like this (though I don't do it personally - either something is voteable or it isn't, there's no FoS middle ground).
But, FoSing multiple people? To me, that reads like you're saying "hey, I'll support wagons on any of these people, but I won't actually make an effort to push any specific one". Very noncommital.
So, why do it?
Well, it's the same reason I didn't make a case on one person. I was pointing out things that seemed suspicious, not things that seemed worthy of voting quite yet. I wanted to hear responses and explainations from the players I suspicion before I go laying a vote. FoS because I do suspicion them, but for all, more is needed to come to a decision.
Well, the reason that Talore had "gathered attention from other players" was because of his vote on loran, for suggesting early on that SB be vigged.
And you implicitly agreed with Talore's opinion in 96, here:
So, comment again on why you wanted to hear from Talore?
His vote gave me bad vibes. It was quick, it was based on one thing (the Loran plan) and he didn't say much after that. It was his second post (I thought it was the first) of the game, so I wanted to hear a little more from him, plus I had my suspicions from above.
I may have agreed with him on the Loran=suspicious bit, but Talore's vote seemed opportunist to me, Player does a bad thing=insta-vote. I don't agree with Insta-voting unless there's a lot of thought behind it such as a case or something.
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I was considering it as a possbility because of things just not adding up. If one of them dies early it would seem that the other should win the game which is weird (SB's thing about someone else taking over was very vague). The survivor would be left to do whatever he wants with no incentive to work with anyone. SB being gold seemed like too much of a coincidence given the way the colors are distributed. kpaca's orange color changing is also weird. If there was going to be some sort of make everyone a certain color thing going on I would imagine it would be between the Great Goo of the Sky Above and the Green Goo as there seems to be some sort of rivalry between them (unless I'm misintrepreting the flavor) and thus gold vs green would make sense and orange doesn't fit into that. I wanted to see if kpaca claimed that his color was orange because if they both "randomly" recieved their color that would be way too much of a coincidence. But yeah, them trying to get each other killed so badly makes absolutely no sense if they are running a scum gambit.
@Syrenz: Yeah, I must have missed this. You are still giving the chance to such an absurd plan, but it's not much of a chance. Still a minor point against you.
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I'm definitely very interested in loran, but I'm not one to vote for something like "suggesting bad plans". I'm more interested in analyzing the 'why'.
Lets hear what he has to say. But the "why" would out the town.
it's way too early in this game for me to be posting at all.
So sorry for us wanting your input in dealing with the scum.
On the neutrals. In Cyans Sword of Truth I was part of a 3 man neutral team that screwed the town and won the game. Don't think this is a scum gambit but could be a way for them to win the game. Simple solution would be a lynch and vig. Clearly not risking taking out a townie so no harm to us.
On the neutrals. In Cyans Sword of Truth I was part of a 3 man neutral team that screwed the town and won the game. Don't think this is a scum gambit but could be a way for them to win the game. Simple solution would be a lynch and vig. Clearly not risking taking out a townie so no harm to us.
Are you suggesting we lynch a claimed neutral today?
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Are you suggesting we lynch a claimed neutral today?
My vote is still on Loran but yes its an option. No harm to the town. Are you implying with that question that it would be a bad idea? Claimed neutral does not mean pro town and could very well be anti town.
My vote is still on Loran but yes its an option. No harm to the town. Are you implying with that question that it would be a bad idea? Claimed neutral does not mean pro town and could very well be anti town.
Yes, I am implying that it's a bad idea. I think it's a horrible idea.
Given that both of them have claimed, and backed up the flavour in each others claim, it is likely that what they are saying is at least mostly true.
If they are neutrals (and I think we can safely disregard any notion of a mafia gambit), their lynch gives us no information. The only thing it does is give the mafia a free nightkill.
There is no way that going after non-killing neutrals is the way to go today.
Vote Archmage Eternal
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That makes sense and would explain the randomness of gold and orange.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
/barn on everyone saying that we should vig kpaca first, if we do end up vigging anyone.
loran: Granted I have never really been part of a scum team trying a gambit, but that seems unnecessarily complicated. I'll have to think about it more, but I don't think that SB and kpaca are part of a team pulling off something that large.
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
@DM: For your first point towards me, AI voted me for no stated reason, and kept it on, he looked like he was passively bashing me without any justifications other than gut feeling. I didn't like his style because it was moderately aggresive and vindictive. Agreeing with someone is not synomonous with liking their style.
As for your second point, others would also include Syrenz, who generally agreed with the post Zajnet made. Kpaca claiming the second half of the colour-changing game and stating that he knows that the orange-ified players won't be notified while Stormblind believed his targets were notified (or he was unsure, I don't remember now and I'm in a hurry) When Stormbling pipped up saying he got clarification from Dagger, that pretty much confirms that they both exist, kpaca randomly saying something to the contrary of SB would be an extremely bad blunder if he was falseclaiming, and the fact that Dagger did notify SB would mean that if kpaca was lying then he got a damn good shot in the dark as to how SB's role was supposed to work.
I don't see how it could be anything else, unless they were scumbuddies with daytalk, but those odds are slim to none.
yep.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Anyway, I've no strong scumreads at the present time. I'll do a quick reread, and hopefully come back with more.
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Oh, that makes sense. I apparently misunderstood what was meant by "confirmed." (I thought that you meant it was confirmed they were telling the full truth, which it doesn't). Unfortunately, that mostly voids my original reasoning on why you were scummy. Blah.
Unvote
I almost feel like we need another random vote stage or something. The first one was criminally short.
So do you think he's scummy? Or did you just want him to clarify why he was voting you?
Well, I wanted him to clarify why he voted me, it seemed very random in the non-random stage, and no more justification than veiled gut-references were made.
It's weird that there are 300 posts in this game but nothing has really happened yet.
Who is Tilde and what is his affliction?
Such as 'Kpaca and SB are gambiting scum'.
Ah, much explained. Although I thought it was somebody else maintaining that silly theory. I must re-read. I need to clear up the whole neutral situation anyway, many things are still a little fuzzy.
I've already told you my thought is that by day 4 the two ought to be vigged. That deals with the most likely scenario (neutrals with anti-town actions and possibly anti-town win conditions) as well as the less likely (mafia gambit)
Ow. That hurts me.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I think Vezok is town. Although I don't like that he's suddenly gone somewhat quiet lately. But by the same token, I didn't like him spamming it up at the start either. I s'pose I just want to don't have my cake, but don't want to eat it either.
I didn't think of this when I first read this post.
I assume this is a random vote. If my assumption is correct, why did you care to make a post only to make a random vote, RobRoy?
Also, whether it's random or not, why didn't you put down the vote in your first post after I asked that question?
@Talore: Why so concerned with that one vote on you?
What is it you like about Talore's posts?
Why?
I'm gonna go ahead and Vote Talore. I didn't like his reaction to having a vote on him earlier, and I did not much care for his gentle attempt at guiding the cop in #138
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I think that Talore could be scum but it's too early to say something right now. I'll IGMEOY you
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Not random. The phrasing didn't jump out at me until a reread, though.
I do not like how happy vezokpiraka is to barn with weak suspicion based on mediocre evidence but ultimately fence-sit. It's probably a n00b tell more than anything but I'll note it.
I do not understand what the discussion between Zchinque and RobRoy is about. I noticed RobRoy's vote and also noticed Zchinque's lag in responding to it but didn't think much about it because I wasn't sure what the reasoning behind the whole thing was. I have a slight town read on Zchinque and no read on RobRoy.
This game is stagnating, badly.
He had made like 4 posts or something like that at that point. They struck me as having good town reasoning in them. I could go back and pbpa his posts up to then, but honestly at that point the game was barely out of random and it seems kind of silly to do that. I'll do it if people want me to though.
I still think it would be fine to see what happens with kpaca/sb if we let them live a night, but as I said earlier if one is going to be vigged I would prefer Kpaca. They are easy vig targets later. For now I hope if we have a vig that they look for someone scummy instead.
Things are a lot less busy then they were for a couple of days. I'll try to post more. I actually have a tendency to post a lot when I have the time.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
loran16 (1) - Talore
Archmage Eternal (1) - zindabad
Zchinque (1) - RobRoy
Dancing Mad (1) - StormBlind
StormBlind (1) - kpaca
Talore (1) - Zchinque
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
First page, RR's first post. Takes a slightly selfish stance (WINTHEGAMERAWR!) and blindly volunteers.
Vote on Talore for....Still haven't had the answer for this, seems right outta the blue for me.
Lay out all out night choices? For the scum to see all over the place? This is Loran bad idea numero uno.
Essentially barns SB's reasoning here and blindly volunteers. We now know that SB was partially, if not completly, lying about his role. Buranri barns lies here.
The only post I could find with explaination for that vote, and the explaination comes far after said vote. That Talore vote was serious and this post supports that.
Fluff, Buranri not really contributing anything. If you reread, most of Buranri's posts don't say much of anything.
More Fluff.
Quick to vote, not sure about why. This just pinged me, like I said.
Ugh, Vezok has had some bad posts this game, but this one takes the cake. Seriously, how could you think, in a color-based game, that revealing everyone's color is a good thing. This is the second worst idea I've seen all game, second only to Loran's 'reveal night targets!' idea.
The beginning of the crazy gambit shenanigans. It's almost like he's being forced to call them scum, it seems so crazy.
Barning the crazy plan.
The end is kinda fencesitty there. 'Leave them alone, but vig them too!'. Nothing terrible, but note worthy IMO.
Completly switches off the random Talore suspicion. I think this one slipped by the town. He voted, never explained it, then finds an excuse to jump off. Just awkward play by Asian, something I haven't seen him do in other games.
Maintains the crazy theory. This is bad idea numero dos for Loran. I would say he's the strongest advocator of the Neutral death here. He's really neutral hunting instead of scum hunting.
The Address to Loran is really just a barn of everyone saying the theory is silly. So, this makes this post another Barn post, no content whatsoever.
I really like how Asian completly and randomly backs away from Talore just as randomly as he jumped on him. I never understood the Talore vote and it just seems out of Asian's style.
So with that, FoS AsianInvasion, Buranri and Loran
That's really all I could dig up. Digging through the neutral conversation is hard and mixes up my thoughts.
Vote: loran16
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Excellent place to start. Good job. vote Loran fos Asian
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Great reasoning TACKY, except for this bit. Sure, he barned lies, but he had no way of knowing that he was barning lies, so this is no worse than any other /barn.
FoS: loran, Buranri, AI
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Anyone care to walk me through how bringing up the gambit theory is advantageous to scumLoran?
That said, I was a bit surprised to see a player of his stature so willing to entertain a theory which has such poor odds for being correct.
His idea of making all targeting public was bad, and I do see why that would be beneficial for the scum.
Unvote. Talore's response to my vote gives me town-vibes.
@Mod: Can we get a prod on ChrisXIV? He's not posted since last month.
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My vote on Talore was all gut, but there was no reason for me to say so initially. I wanted to see his reaction to pressure, and when I did, I didn't like it. When I found out that he's a new player I removed my vote because it explained the awkwardness I felt from his play.
I do not like how loran racked up three votes in no time at all. vezokpiraka I can understand, but AE should know better.
I also do not like how readily AE and Zajnet barned TACKY. It's almost as if they don't have opinions of their own.
ced got it right: Advocating a bad plan is like being on a mislynch wagon; doing so is poor but not scummy in and of itself. loran could certainly be scum, but I don't think his plan makes him more likely than anyone else.
I await loran's response to the attacks against him.
Praytell, what have i lied about? I've been nothing but straight forward, and even STATED that i didnt believe that my competitor was evil, but that it was merely flavor.
I would *REALLY* like to know what i lied about as Ive been nothing but open and honest about this since the start.
The only thing I can think of is the contradiction with people knowing that they've been turned gold and able to continue your work contrasting with that the people don't know that they've been turned.
EDH:
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High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
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They have 48 hours to respond by posting in this thread.
Goocount
loran16 (4) - Talore, Axelrod, vezokpiraka, Archmage Eternal
Archmage Eternal (1) - zindabad
Zchinque (1) - RobRoy
Dancing Mad (1) - StormBlind
StormBlind (1) - kpaca
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
First, /barn the more analysis needed, hence my FoS and not a vote.
Also, can you link, or at least give me a general idea of where this question is. You've done this in other games, just calling that you have an unanswered question. I'll look, but I'd prefer a link of sorts.
Ah, duh. It's still a barn, but I guess he wouldn't have knowledge of actual lies.
See below...
This, combined with the Kpaca discripencies are the SB lies I reference. Also, I know you were basing it on flavor, but you were heavily implying that your counterpart was a very bad person. You were setting Kpaca up as a villian. Maybe not a lie, but heavy manipulation.
I assume that this is the question you wanted me to answer, in reference to me saying I wanted to hear more from Talore.
Well, at the time Talore had few posts, and I think his first post of the game contained a serious vote. I was curious to hear more from him, maybe expand on his vote a bit, and he had gathered attention from other players so, I was curious to hear more.
If someone else hasn't already said it, TACKY is probably town imo.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
loran tried to get us to mass claim with his first post in Meadows...as town. Yes, his plan is a bad one. No, it doesn't make him scum. And I'd argue that at the time he made the "bad idea numero dos" post TACKY notes, everyone was neutral hunting.
Buranri is significantly more interesting to me. I'm getting a Duel Monsters vibe from him and his posts here are the same type of no-content going along to get along that he exhibited as scum in that game. I think I'm still voting AE (which actually is looking like a pretty good idea as he's my #2 target) so I'll unvote; vote Buranri.
I note plenty of barning going on here. Bad sign. There'll be at least 1 scum among them and the rest will be follow-the-leader vessels dancing to the tune of scum maestros.
Do I sound bad-tempered? Maybe I do. But it's late and my connection is terrible and I got prodded and it's way too early in this game for me to be posting at all.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Found :
Because it does not change anything for me. Neither in a good way nor in a bad one.
///////////////////////////
I think I have a good read on some little things.
By the way, sorry but I have a very (And I mean very very) slow Internet connection, and thus it is hard for me to gather posts in multi-quotes, and it is even worse on a heavy website like MTGS, that's why I don't do it often.
- Talore's early play + AI and Talore.
See that it is only his first post, and he didn't include only random stuff like most people would do. The bolded sentence is about the volunteers to be goldified by StormBlind.
Good points on loran. I note that Talore is one of the few players that use the debate about SB to analyse reactions that other players have about this debate, more than focusing SB himself.
Later, we see that Asianinvader, who's voted Talore in the random phase keeps his vote and try to add something to Talore's case at every post he make. This is the opposite of what I call a genuine accusation.
Later (Much much later) , AI unvoted and asked Talore how many games he has played. This looks like a scum that failed to push a wagon, searching for a reason to unvote.
From everything here my thoughts are on Talore town and AsianInvader scum. Refer to TACKY's post in the previous page for a very good analyse of the overall behaviour of AI.
[The Family] pressed the "lynch" button, thinking it was labeled "lunch" .
I explained my reasoning for that in post #213. Did you miss that or do you think my reasoning was bad?
Why did you not express any suspicion over this when Loran originally posted that?
Why?
I'm getting the Anita Blake no-content vibe from him actually.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
And what does this vibe imply? I didn't read Anita Blake or Duel Monsters.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Yes, but at that point (IIRC) kpaca hadn't claimed yet, and it seemed true to me. Obviously now kpaca's claim screws everything up and makes my head hurt, but I think I am still willing to be goldified. If he is anti-town, well... Knowing my track record I'm likely to be lynched soon anyways If not, then it all works out.
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
He has been actively scum hunting. He is playing the same way that he did as town in 18, and there's some gut reaction going on too.
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Well, it's the same reason I didn't make a case on one person. I was pointing out things that seemed suspicious, not things that seemed worthy of voting quite yet. I wanted to hear responses and explainations from the players I suspicion before I go laying a vote. FoS because I do suspicion them, but for all, more is needed to come to a decision.
His vote gave me bad vibes. It was quick, it was based on one thing (the Loran plan) and he didn't say much after that. It was his second post (I thought it was the first) of the game, so I wanted to hear a little more from him, plus I had my suspicions from above.
I may have agreed with him on the Loran=suspicious bit, but Talore's vote seemed opportunist to me, Player does a bad thing=insta-vote. I don't agree with Insta-voting unless there's a lot of thought behind it such as a case or something.
@Syrenz: Yeah, I must have missed this. You are still giving the chance to such an absurd plan, but it's not much of a chance. Still a minor point against you.
So what good comes from outing ourselves and showing the mafia what we have in store?
Lets hear what he has to say. But the "why" would out the town.
So sorry for us wanting your input in dealing with the scum.
On the neutrals. In Cyans Sword of Truth I was part of a 3 man neutral team that screwed the town and won the game. Don't think this is a scum gambit but could be a way for them to win the game. Simple solution would be a lynch and vig. Clearly not risking taking out a townie so no harm to us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Are you suggesting we lynch a claimed neutral today?
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My vote is still on Loran but yes its an option. No harm to the town. Are you implying with that question that it would be a bad idea? Claimed neutral does not mean pro town and could very well be anti town.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
There is no way that lynching SB or Kpaca is correct today..just no way. Vote AE
Yes, I am implying that it's a bad idea. I think it's a horrible idea.
Given that both of them have claimed, and backed up the flavour in each others claim, it is likely that what they are saying is at least mostly true.
If they are neutrals (and I think we can safely disregard any notion of a mafia gambit), their lynch gives us no information. The only thing it does is give the mafia a free nightkill.
There is no way that going after non-killing neutrals is the way to go today.
Vote Archmage Eternal
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Kingdom Hearts
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Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
@AE: Any reason you didn't answer this?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)