The first part I knew the answer to, but the second part is me trying to get people to think about their votes, as opposed to going "That's weird. Vote it."
Hrm. Let's break this down. The "first part" = "What should I know," ie, your alignment. Are you now saying that you knew the answer at the time you posted that?
So, how could you know the answer to the "first part"; ie, your alignment, when you hadn't read your PM yet? Just mucking about, I suppose, to see who you could lead down the garden path? At this point, what is lies & what is true?
Hrm. Let's break this down. The "first part" = "What should I know," ie, your alignment. Are you now saying that you knew the answer at the time you posted that?
I knew the answer to what I *should* have known, not what I *did* know.
By the way, I forgot to reiterate this in my first post, but please note my post in the signup thread:
By the way, as a heads up to other players, if I get in, regardless of alignment, I will at least attempt to break my trend of habitual lurking. How effective it is, well.. We'll see.
That being said, I think the whole Lost Profit bit is null. If he actually didn't read his role PM, then it's null. Regardless of alignment, if he actually read his role PM, it's a stupid gambit. It's not really something that town or scum would normally do.. As town there's no reason to do it, but as scum there's no reason to do it also. I think for now it should be left behind, and only used if there's other evidence in the future.
Quote from Taylor »
1) LP is telling the truth about not looking at his PM until page 14. In which case he is probably not mafia, could be another kind of scum, but is probably town. He made an error in judgment thinking that not looking at him PM could some how help him.
How does this make sense? If he didn't look at his role PM, he's not Mafia? You could argue that it's the greater percentage chance to be town, but you could say that about anyone.
Regardless of alignment, if he actually read his role PM, it's a stupid gambit. It's not really something that town or scum would normally do..
Man, this is the lamest defense. As if people play 100%, always. Day 1 is fantastic for scum making stupid slips & trying to spin it into fairy floss. *scribbles notes on people making this argument*
Simple. Someone carelessly posts "you'd know X if you were town!". You said you'd played Mafia before, it's not exactly uncommon for info leaks to happen like that.
Even this line of discussion is bordering on loose lips sinking ships. Absolute garbage.
interested as to why these specific people and subjects of questions.
worried slightly about Infinis, nothing on Guardman. That said, even when I get a read on the latter, it means nothing.
Just asking questions to/about semi-random players* in an effort to spark discussion (this was before we began discussing Lost_Profit).
*the six players that I named are the ones that I am most familiar with and the ones that I think of as most experienced.
I explained myself. If you still wish to view me as scummy, that's up to you. I'm more interested in this role PM fiasco than about getting one scum vote based on two sentences I wrote in the very beginning of the game.
Simple. Someone carelessly posts "you'd know X if you were town!". You said you'd played Mafia before, it's not exactly uncommon for info leaks to happen like that.
Yes, it is rather uncommon. I've seen it maybe twice, in scenarios completely unrelated to this.
The reason why it is so uncommon is that it requires a degree of failure on the mod's part as well, to include something identifiably town in the role PM to begin with. Mods tend to wizen up to these types of things rather quickly.
Even this line of discussion is bordering on loose lips sinking ships. Absolute garbage.
Smilies like that imply that you want to make sure an emotion gets across clearly ie you're defensive and worried about people getting suspicious through misunderstanding.
I see, in my defense i actually use smilies fairly often, ill keep your points in mind from here on out though.
As for the questions, they seemed mostly designed to incite sympathy or try and dismiss a point rhetorically. And there were lots of them, indicating some kind of panicked state.
I can understand what it is you are trying to say, and I'm actually surprised my posts came off sounding this way when that was in no way my intent.
Readable was as in people are actually trying, not that it should have been possible. Better put, there were more reads on me than any other player, thus I was most "readable."
Not really what i was referring to when i said reads.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
? so i should not be surprised about the developments that take place in the span of one nap?
If anything shouldnt it be more concerning if i just took it all like nothing and just went on with things?
Im not skirting around the issue, Lost Profit is being very cryptic about things something i do not like, and his fishing is something that i dont view as very townie, look at Basic 28 i hate when people try to fish.
Here is the deal im completely confused on what the whole thing with Lost Profit is, re-reading his posts the only sense i can make of is that he does not know his alignment, which is what im asking him, im not asking him to tell us WHAT his alignment is, only if he knows it, how that is scummy or fishing i dont know
Not reading your role PM is a terrible thing. I've seen this happen at least once before in a game I wasn't a part of. It's dishonorable and taints the game. Mafia works because each player knows his win condition and plays to the best of his ability. This is the most basic covenant of the game.
Personally, I consider willfully remaining in ignorance to that information (who you are and how you win) to be very close to cheating. It certainly violates the spirit of the game, if not the letter of the rules. Please correct this.
Misrepresenting the game state is a valid strategy as it only gives you a warning.
It doesn't matter if he is lying or not. This sort of action makes no sense as a town or scum. Even lying about it makes no sense as a town or scum. What does he gain from doing so? Nothing. Therefore him not reading his PM means nothing other than he is not reading his PM.
No, he was goof-bagging that he didn't know his alignment. Maybe he was dicking around, 'I dunno, maybe I'm scum ;)' & then when the pressure rolled in, he decides to play it 'haven't read my role PM'. Notice that LP didn't just come out & say that, he let people arrive at the conclusion with vague hints & beating around the bush, including his terribly fishy "What should I know, and why does not knowing it make me scum?"
It's not like it's the only scummy thing he's done, either.
Man, this is the lamest defense. As if people play 100%, always. Day 1 is fantastic for scum making stupid slips & trying to spin it into fairy floss. *scribbles notes on people making this argument*
Unvote, vote Rianalnn
You are the one trying to spin arguments. Every day is fantastic for scum and town doing stupid ☺☺☺☺:
Star Trek EU: Taylor, town: Screaming stupid ☺☺☺☺.
Battle Royale: Cyan, scum: Thinking his scum group was a masonry and openly declaring it.
Dictionary: Three townies self-voting and suiciding on D1, D2, and D3.
Tachronic: Seppel & Creampuffeater, town: Threatening Creampuffeater with a vig shot when I was 95% sure that Cyan was a serial killer. Then Creampuffeater dayvigged me.
Inheritance: Cyan, town: Knew who the doc was. Called out the doc because he thought the doc was scum.
Led Zeppelin: Kpaca, scum: Claimed he was a mason with Ced after he was called out with a guilty result. Ced was his scumbuddy and they got lynched back-to-back.
Joss Whedon: Seppel, town: I falseclaimed like 2000 times and created an epic ending to a mafia game.
I DIGRESS. YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE STUPID. YOU ARE TRYING TO GET MORE PEOPLE ON THE POINTLESS LOST_PROFIT WAGON.
Trying to malign Pale Mage for playing Mafia? That was pretty scummy. "No, let's just chillax, bro!"
Where am I saying town don't do stupid? You're so bored you're making ☺☺☺☺ up, everyone watch the dancing clown. Hey everyone, vote me for trying to rattle someone I think is scummy
How does this make sense? If he didn't look at his role PM, he's not Mafia? You could argue that it's the greater percentage chance to be town, but you could say that about anyone.
"Probably not" is what I said, so uh, yeah, don't put words in my mouth.
Additionally,
I am assuming he would be able to see the mafia subforum or (if there is not one, I did not get an answer) he would be getting mafia PMs.
He said he only got one PM about the game, so if he is telling the truth he is probably not mafia. Unless he told the truth about not reading it, but lied about other PMs.
Anyway it's safe to say "probably not," which I did, not "is," which, I guess, you thought I said in the part you quoted.
Hmm. I get the feeling you're being submissive in order to diffuse my suspicion on you - it sounds a bit unnatural.
The fact that you've tried to defend against my accusations in this way isn't particularly thrilling either.
It is your choice to view my reply as submissive (although your sadly wrong), i see no point in getting worked up and/or angry over someone making a reasonable (if perhaps annoying) misunderstanding in the way i present myself or address others.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
All three were dumped into the list because while I was reading, I decided on a post of theirs that I decided was made with scum intention. Doesn't matter if it was right or wrong.
Not much of an answer. I assumed you saw something (if yer on the up and up), so I was hoping for something more specific from you.
I asked you a question earlier and you haven't been back to this game, although you have been around. You seemed eager to play during the sign up phase, and then you vanished.
Can you remind me the question? I've been reading, and I didn't see it.
And yes, I vanished. Decided to lurk for a little while and read, since I don't really like the random vote phase, and it seems to last forever in these huge games.
Now, as for my thoughts. Really, I'm getting 'null' on just about everyone, save for Silent Profit. This whole 'I didn't read my PM' thing is really scummy to me. The PM is supposed to be the first thing you read, so you know your role.
I don't like his statements. Especially the "It doesn't matter my role, I do the same things on day 1 anyways" statement he made.
Since he's been called on the not reading thing, he's become incredibly defensive, evasive.
Sadly, this is just a gut feeling. Not reading your PM isn't a scum action. However, this entire thing feels contrived, for reasons I'm not sure on.
By the way, Pale Mage, are you in the habit, after the Random Voting phase has ended, to vote people without giving reasons?
Can you remind me the question? I've been reading, and I didn't see it.
It was two questions, actually. They can be found here.
And yes, I vanished. Decided to lurk for a little while and read, since I don't really like the random vote phase, and it seems to last forever in these huge games.
Couldn't have been reading all that carefully. I quoted you twice in the same post. I daresay my post stuck out a bit in RVS. If you dislike RVS, I certainly was handing you an invitation to move beyond it (or at least take the first steps).
Now, as for my thoughts. Really, I'm getting 'null' on just about everyone, save for Silent Profit.
How very disappointing.
This whole 'I didn't read my PM' thing is really scummy to me. The PM is supposed to be the first thing you read, so you know your role.
I think Diggy phrased it best as poor gamesmanship, assuming he's telling the truth, which seems likely. Have you ever read a game where a player didn't read his PM?
I don't like his statements. Especially the "It doesn't matter my role, I do the same things on day 1 anyways" statement he made.
Since he's been called on the not reading thing, he's become incredibly defensive, evasive.
Sadly, this is just a gut feeling. Not reading your PM isn't a scum action. However, this entire thing feels contrived, for reasons I'm not sure on.
It should feel contrived either way.
By the way, Pale Mage, are you in the habit, after the Random Voting phase has ended, to vote people without giving reasons?
Depends on what I want from the vote. This particular one has been quite successful. My reasons are always available for those who ask.
The 'idiot' statement was because they were asking the mod to do his worst. In a bastard mod game? That's a rather unintelligent thing to do. I find it about as stupid as quoting your PM or editing your post.
As for the 'rockstar/vig' thing, mostly a joke. No real connection between one and the other. I was pretending to expect to be vigged because I was specifically requested to join this game.
I believe I skipped your post, by the bye, because I didn't consider either question to be serious. Sorry.
As for a player not reading his PM? Not so far, if memory serves. I've seen several games where players claimed not to understand their PM, one or two where a player claimed not to have gotten one. But I don't recall one where a player actually claimed he hadn't read this.
Really, I don't believe Silent Profit in the slightest. I see no reason for a player to not have read their PM. Especially in a Bastard game.
No, you're being difficult. You used a smiley that could easily have been missed/misunderstood, which left plenty of room for someone else to say something.
And you haven't answered why you in particular didn't say anything. The above is not an answer.
Here is my thought process as best I can remember:
"Goddammit Joboman. Okay, nobody's replied. I want everyone to ignore that post. Somebody's going to reply. Damage control. I don't want to reply. Smiley. What one works best as a deterrent to replies? Facepalm! I rarely use facepalm. It's just not something I do."
As for a player not reading his PM? Not so far, if memory serves. I've seen several games where players claimed not to understand their PM, one or two where a player claimed not to have gotten one. But I don't recall one where a player actually claimed he hadn't read this.
Really, I don't believe Silent Profit in the slightest. I see no reason for a player to not have read their PM. Especially in a Bastard game.
I didn't read my PM in multiple games. I've ignored reading the part about where my scumbiuddeies are repeatedly.
Now, as for my thoughts. Really, I'm getting 'null' on just about everyone, save for Silent Profit.
You say this twice. Is it some sort of implication or do you not know my name?
I don't like his statements. Especially the "It doesn't matter my role, I do the same things on day 1 anyways" statement he made.
Not quite.
I used to play fairly differently between alignments. Not sure how true it is now. The point I was trying to make, however, was that I can play to win without knowing how I actually do win, at least early in the game.
I have to admit, I thought about not looking at my role PM for this game, however I came to the conclusion it would not really help me. It would make me "harder to read" but that's only good if you're scum. The downside, it would make you think "middle of the fence" for helping or hurting the town.
As I said, I was on LP's side up until those two posts. I thought he just concluded that not reading his PM would somehow help him for reasons I was not able to see when I thought about it myself.
I am assuming he would be able to see the mafia subforum or (if there is not one, I did not get an answer) he would be getting mafia PMs.
He said he only got one PM about the game, so if he is telling the truth he is probably not mafia. Unless he told the truth about not reading it, but lied about other PMs.
The majority of the time, mafia chat threads are off-site, in my experience.
Also, your arguments aren't adding up. It seems as though you're on the fence about this issue. Do you think that he lied about reading his PM, or do you genuinely believe that he decided not to for whatever reason?
Quote from Toastboy »
Don't like this. Too detailed on such a small point.
This is the second thing of mine that you haven't liked. Noone else hs pointed out anything specific that I've said. That being said, do you actually think that I'm scum at this point, or I'm just making poor posts?
I think this is what we are looking at one of two things:
1) LP is telling the truth about not looking at his PM until page 14. In which case he is probably not mafia, could be another kind of scum, but is probably town. He made an error in judgment thinking that not looking at him PM could some how help him.
2) He is lying. In which case he is probably mafia, could be another kinda scum, but is probably not town. He was worried people were on to him so he panicked and tried to void the last 14 pages.
Now, I thought it was probably 1, up until these two post:
Readable was as in people are actually trying, not that it should have been possible. Better put, there were more reads on me than any other player, thus I was most "readable."
Makes it sound like it was possible.
I am now leaning towards #2. Thoughts?
Does me accusing him of lying, and providing evidence why, seem like I am "On the fence?" I am not 100% convinced, sure, but I would not call me 'on the fence.'
How does this make sense? If he didn't look at his role PM, he's not Mafia?
This makes it seem like you thought I was NOT 'on the fence,' but thought I felt he was 100% not scum if he was not lying. Course, I don't know how you could possibly think that reading my post.
Can you explain to me which part of my post seemed like I thought he could not, 100%, be scum if he did not read his PM?
(Also, is being on the fence bad? I mean, I'm not 100% convinced of anything, but why should I be?)
Er, sorry. I think there was another poster named 'Silent Prophet' that used to run around these boards. Still might. I think he might have played Mafia as well. So when I see your name, I get a little mixed up.
And I disagree in terms of how you play. Would you not be a little more careful if you were scum? Make sure you didn't get this much heat? Scum don't like to be in the limelight. Your actions got you there immediately.
No, he was goof-bagging that he didn't know his alignment. Maybe he was dicking around, 'I dunno, maybe I'm scum ;)' & then when the pressure rolled in, he decides to play it 'haven't read my role PM'. Notice that LP didn't just come out & say that, he let people arrive at the conclusion with vague hints & beating around the bush, including his terribly fishy "What should I know, and why does not knowing it make me scum?"
It's not like it's the only scummy thing he's done, either.
Okay, I see what you mean about "vague hints", but I'm still confused as to why all this makes him scum.
Question: Why would scum pull something like that, i.e. pretending that they don't know their alignment?
I can't see any reason for anyone to pull something like that.
"Probably not" is what I said, so uh, yeah, don't put words in my mouth.
Additionally,
I am assuming he would be able to see the mafia subforum or (if there is not one, I did not get an answer) he would be getting mafia PMs.
He said he only got one PM about the game, so if he is telling the truth he is probably not mafia. Unless he told the truth about not reading it, but lied about other PMs.
Anyway it's safe to say "probably not," which I did, not "is," which, I guess, you thought I said in the part you quoted.
Question: Why do you assume that the mafia have daytalk?
Question: If mafia have daytalk, why would they not lie about getting other PM's?
I think this is what we are looking at one of two things:
1) LP is telling the truth about not looking at his PM until page 14. In which case he is probably not mafia, could be another kind of scum, but is probably town. He made an error in judgment thinking that not looking at him PM could some how help him.
2) He is lying. In which case he is probably mafia, could be another kinda scum, but is probably not town. He was worried people were on to him so he panicked and tried to void the last 14 pages.
Now, I thought it was probably 1, up until these two post: Makes it sound like it was possible.
I am now leaning towards #2. Thoughts?
Explain how those two posts lend any credence at all to the second theory.
Trying to malign Pale Mage for playing Mafia? That was pretty scummy. "No, let's just chillax, bro!"
Where am I saying town don't do stupid? You're so bored you're making ☺☺☺☺ up, everyone watch the dancing clown. Hey everyone, vote me for trying to rattle someone I think is scummy
Interesting response.
Where's the answer to Seppel's question? You know, the one asking what else Lost_Profit's done that's scummy?
I'd like the answer to that as well.
However, assuming you already read the posts on this thread, but want a further explanation:
What would be a reason for him to want to void the first 14 pages? Because he is scum and he felt people were reading that off of him.
Those posts made it seem like he was saying people were able to read him. However, they should not be able to have done that if he had not read his PM, because there would be nothing to read.
The way those two posts are worded make me suspect (not 100% sure, suspect) that he felt people were able to get a read off of him for the first 14 posts, and that was why they were voting for him. Even if they WERE able to read him, that would only lean to voting for him if he was reading as scum. If they were able to read him AND he was town, they would not vote for him.
[quote=Taylor;5901819 If he is lying then he is probably scum. See this post for more explanation. [/quote] Ok, looking over everything again, it looks like you probably already did that. However, I don't know what more I could tell you.
Can you be more explicated in your question? What exactly about that post did you find unclear?
And I disagree in terms of how you play. Would you not be a little more careful if you were scum? Make sure you didn't get this much heat? Scum don't like to be in the limelight. Your actions got you there immediately.
I'm agreeing with you - we're discussing two different things.
1) What you are talking about: Whether I would play differently depending on knowing my alignment. The answer to this is probably yes.
2) What I was actually discussing: Whether I can play to win without knowing my alignment. The answer to this is also yes.
*feels chuffed at being called experienced* Mkay, I can see that.
Can you respond to your own questions, ie what you think of those players you asked about?
I sure can:
rianalnn: Decent scumhunting, trying to trip up a suspect. Looks town to me.
Guardman: Very hard for me to read, makes me apprehensive.
infinis: I do not recall him doing much more than speculating, which I find useless but null. In general, whenever I think he is scum he turns up town and vice versa.
Cyouni: Asking decent questions, so slightly town.
I'm not.
Am I the only one in this game that knows what the word "probably" means?
Is there some other game-friendly term I should be using instead?
If he is lying then he is probably scum.
We are aware that you can not possibly be absolutely sure about anything, no one should be expecting you to. However, when you are constantly using qualifiers it makes you look as if you are fence-sitting, as in, providing yourself an easy out if this line of reason suddenly becomes unpopular. That is why fence-sitting is generally seen as scummy.
Rian's responses reek of over aggression and trying to make an entire case out of a horrible reason.
Unvote
Vote Rian
/barn on the over aggression, but the horrible reason could just be an attempt at scum hunting. I mean, at the moment there is not much to go on.
FOS Rian
@Lost profit...I think you deserve the vote more, unvote, vote Lost Profit, for absolutely terrible play, for the town at least. I don't think you've actually contributed anything meaningful and have only gotten yourself into trouble. Not productive at all.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
Let's check the instant replay, Chuck. Then came those first & second parts;
Then Pale Mage asks you directly:
& your reply;
So, how could you know the answer to the "first part"; ie, your alignment, when you hadn't read your PM yet? Just mucking about, I suppose, to see who you could lead down the garden path? At this point, what is lies & what is true?
Where did I leave that popcorn
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
That being said, I think the whole Lost Profit bit is null. If he actually didn't read his role PM, then it's null. Regardless of alignment, if he actually read his role PM, it's a stupid gambit. It's not really something that town or scum would normally do.. As town there's no reason to do it, but as scum there's no reason to do it also. I think for now it should be left behind, and only used if there's other evidence in the future.
How does this make sense? If he didn't look at his role PM, he's not Mafia? You could argue that it's the greater percentage chance to be town, but you could say that about anyone.
Sign up for League of Legends!
The question of "What should I have known?"
Answer "Your role."
The answer is not "Oh, you didn't read your pm, have mine instead!"
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
Even this line of discussion is bordering on loose lips sinking ships. Absolute garbage.
Just asking questions to/about semi-random players* in an effort to spark discussion (this was before we began discussing Lost_Profit).
*the six players that I named are the ones that I am most familiar with and the ones that I think of as most experienced.
Fairly townish response.
See above.
I am fine with my vote on Lost_Profit for now, he still looks like the scummiest person so far to me.
smoke_Killah
The reason why it is so uncommon is that it requires a degree of failure on the mod's part as well, to include something identifiably town in the role PM to begin with. Mods tend to wizen up to these types of things rather quickly.
...then stop discussing it?
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
I see, in my defense i actually use smilies fairly often, ill keep your points in mind from here on out though.
I can understand what it is you are trying to say, and I'm actually surprised my posts came off sounding this way when that was in no way my intent.
Not really what i was referring to when i said reads.
Sepiriel's language stood out. Khorney's didn't.
Ding ding! Pale Mage is the smart one.
"Woe is I."
It was better than ignoring it and risking someone else saying something.
Misrepresenting the game state is a valid strategy as it only gives you a warning.
Okay I don't really believe that.
+++town holy ☺☺☺☺
When did you get smart?
Orly? Bullcrap. What else scummy has he done?
Unvote, vote Rianalnn
You are the one trying to spin arguments. Every day is fantastic for scum and town doing stupid ☺☺☺☺:
Star Trek EU: Taylor, town: Screaming stupid ☺☺☺☺.
Battle Royale: Cyan, scum: Thinking his scum group was a masonry and openly declaring it.
Dictionary: Three townies self-voting and suiciding on D1, D2, and D3.
Tachronic: Seppel & Creampuffeater, town: Threatening Creampuffeater with a vig shot when I was 95% sure that Cyan was a serial killer. Then Creampuffeater dayvigged me.
Inheritance: Cyan, town: Knew who the doc was. Called out the doc because he thought the doc was scum.
Led Zeppelin: Kpaca, scum: Claimed he was a mason with Ced after he was called out with a guilty result. Ced was his scumbuddy and they got lynched back-to-back.
Joss Whedon: Seppel, town: I falseclaimed like 2000 times and created an epic ending to a mafia game.
I DIGRESS. YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE STUPID. YOU ARE TRYING TO GET MORE PEOPLE ON THE POINTLESS LOST_PROFIT WAGON.
Holy crap this game is easymode.
Where am I saying town don't do stupid? You're so bored you're making ☺☺☺☺ up, everyone watch the dancing clown. Hey everyone, vote me for trying to rattle someone I think is scummy
rianalnn 33 +1
Lost_Profit 28
Taylor 26
Pale Mage 14
Sepiriel 14
Seppel 13
Smitster 12
red_0mega 12
Ambassador Laquatus 10
Annorax 8
khorney06 8
Archmage Eternal 7
Toastboy 7
Guardman 6
Zebi 5
AlphaInsidious 5
Nai 5
Arcadic 4
Cyouni 4
Dagger 4
KeyofDestiny 3
Infinis 2
joboman 2
Diggy 2
Vulpix 1
"Probably not" is what I said, so uh, yeah, don't put words in my mouth.
Additionally,
I am assuming he would be able to see the mafia subforum or (if there is not one, I did not get an answer) he would be getting mafia PMs.
He said he only got one PM about the game, so if he is telling the truth he is probably not mafia. Unless he told the truth about not reading it, but lied about other PMs.
Anyway it's safe to say "probably not," which I did, not "is," which, I guess, you thought I said in the part you quoted.
You totally didn't answer my question. Also, is this all ya got after a couple hundred posts?
What's a serious khorney look like?
Not much of an answer. I assumed you saw something (if yer on the up and up), so I was hoping for something more specific from you.
[B]@Mod - [/B]This guy and your other local player are not very active.
Why speculate? Anything else you'd care to talk about?
[B]Vote: Nai[/B] for good measure.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Vote for the Devil and up he pops!
I asked you a question earlier and you haven't been back to this game, although you have been around. You seemed eager to play during the sign up phase, and then you vanished.
Thoughts, etcetera?
And yes, I vanished. Decided to lurk for a little while and read, since I don't really like the random vote phase, and it seems to last forever in these huge games.
Now, as for my thoughts. Really, I'm getting 'null' on just about everyone, save for Silent Profit. This whole 'I didn't read my PM' thing is really scummy to me. The PM is supposed to be the first thing you read, so you know your role.
I don't like his statements. Especially the "It doesn't matter my role, I do the same things on day 1 anyways" statement he made.
Since he's been called on the not reading thing, he's become incredibly defensive, evasive.
Sadly, this is just a gut feeling. Not reading your PM isn't a scum action. However, this entire thing feels contrived, for reasons I'm not sure on.
By the way, Pale Mage, are you in the habit, after the Random Voting phase has ended, to vote people without giving reasons?
My helpdesk should you need me.
It was two questions, actually. They can be found here.
Couldn't have been reading all that carefully. I quoted you twice in the same post. I daresay my post stuck out a bit in RVS. If you dislike RVS, I certainly was handing you an invitation to move beyond it (or at least take the first steps).
How very disappointing.
I think Diggy phrased it best as poor gamesmanship, assuming he's telling the truth, which seems likely. Have you ever read a game where a player didn't read his PM?
It should feel contrived either way.
Depends on what I want from the vote. This particular one has been quite successful. My reasons are always available for those who ask.
The 'idiot' statement was because they were asking the mod to do his worst. In a bastard mod game? That's a rather unintelligent thing to do. I find it about as stupid as quoting your PM or editing your post.
As for the 'rockstar/vig' thing, mostly a joke. No real connection between one and the other. I was pretending to expect to be vigged because I was specifically requested to join this game.
I believe I skipped your post, by the bye, because I didn't consider either question to be serious. Sorry.
As for a player not reading his PM? Not so far, if memory serves. I've seen several games where players claimed not to understand their PM, one or two where a player claimed not to have gotten one. But I don't recall one where a player actually claimed he hadn't read this.
Really, I don't believe Silent Profit in the slightest. I see no reason for a player to not have read their PM. Especially in a Bastard game.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Here is my thought process as best I can remember:
"Goddammit Joboman. Okay, nobody's replied. I want everyone to ignore that post. Somebody's going to reply. Damage control. I don't want to reply. Smiley. What one works best as a deterrent to replies? Facepalm! I rarely use facepalm. It's just not something I do."
Rian says "hey this makes Lost Profit look like scum."
I say "no it doesn't"
I didn't read my PM in multiple games. I've ignored reading the part about where my scumbiuddeies are repeatedly.
Please don't triple post for something as inane as this.
I don't think the post is bad, I don't think the post is wrong, and I don't think there is anything telling either way in it.
I think the post was too early.
You say this twice. Is it some sort of implication or do you not know my name?
Not quite.
I used to play fairly differently between alignments. Not sure how true it is now. The point I was trying to make, however, was that I can play to win without knowing how I actually do win, at least early in the game.
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
As I said, I was on LP's side up until those two posts. I thought he just concluded that not reading his PM would somehow help him for reasons I was not able to see when I thought about it myself.
The majority of the time, mafia chat threads are off-site, in my experience.
Also, your arguments aren't adding up. It seems as though you're on the fence about this issue. Do you think that he lied about reading his PM, or do you genuinely believe that he decided not to for whatever reason?
This is the second thing of mine that you haven't liked. Noone else hs pointed out anything specific that I've said. That being said, do you actually think that I'm scum at this point, or I'm just making poor posts?
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Additionally, you said:
This makes it seem like you thought I was NOT 'on the fence,' but thought I felt he was 100% not scum if he was not lying. Course, I don't know how you could possibly think that reading my post.
Can you explain to me which part of my post seemed like I thought he could not, 100%, be scum if he did not read his PM?
(Also, is being on the fence bad? I mean, I'm not 100% convinced of anything, but why should I be?)
As I said I said, I thought, originally, he had just not looked at his PM.
However, based on what he said after, I feel he is probably lying.
And I disagree in terms of how you play. Would you not be a little more careful if you were scum? Make sure you didn't get this much heat? Scum don't like to be in the limelight. Your actions got you there immediately.
And no, this doesn't mean you aren't scum.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Question: Why would scum pull something like that, i.e. pretending that they don't know their alignment?
I can't see any reason for anyone to pull something like that.
Please hold while I look incredibly surprised at being on that list.
Question: Why do you assume that the mafia have daytalk?
Question: If mafia have daytalk, why would they not lie about getting other PM's?
Explain how those two posts lend any credence at all to the second theory.
Interesting response.
Where's the answer to Seppel's question? You know, the one asking what else Lost_Profit's done that's scummy?
I'd like the answer to that as well.
Am I the only one in this game that knows what the word "probably" means?
Is there some other game-friendly term I should be using instead?
If he is lying then he is probably scum. See this post for more explanation.
Read the original post I made:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5898439#post5898439
You will note I highlighted the use of the word "readable."
Also, you could read the post in which I accused him and explained myself:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5896550&postcount=199
However, assuming you already read the posts on this thread, but want a further explanation:
What would be a reason for him to want to void the first 14 pages? Because he is scum and he felt people were reading that off of him.
Those posts made it seem like he was saying people were able to read him. However, they should not be able to have done that if he had not read his PM, because there would be nothing to read.
The way those two posts are worded make me suspect (not 100% sure, suspect) that he felt people were able to get a read off of him for the first 14 posts, and that was why they were voting for him. Even if they WERE able to read him, that would only lean to voting for him if he was reading as scum. If they were able to read him AND he was town, they would not vote for him.
Can you be more explicated in your question? What exactly about that post did you find unclear?
1) What you are talking about: Whether I would play differently depending on knowing my alignment. The answer to this is probably yes.
2) What I was actually discussing: Whether I can play to win without knowing my alignment. The answer to this is also yes.
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Unvote, Vote: Rianalnn
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Unvote
Vote Rian
Uh, you frakkin' quoted it, kiddo
I PROVED THE POSTDOC FROM M.I.T. WRONG ON AN IMPORTANT ISSUE
(first time)
That is all.
If your post begins with "this has no relevance or bearing on the game in any way, but..." then perhaps you should be posting it somewhere else.
Smitster, I'd like to hear your reasoning for this lightning fast bandwagon vote.
Vote: Lost Profit
I sure can:
rianalnn: Decent scumhunting, trying to trip up a suspect. Looks town to me.
Guardman: Very hard for me to read, makes me apprehensive.
infinis: I do not recall him doing much more than speculating, which I find useless but null. In general, whenever I think he is scum he turns up town and vice versa.
Cyouni: Asking decent questions, so slightly town.
Could you explain how this could possibly be the case?
We are aware that you can not possibly be absolutely sure about anything, no one should be expecting you to. However, when you are constantly using qualifiers it makes you look as if you are fence-sitting, as in, providing yourself an easy out if this line of reason suddenly becomes unpopular. That is why fence-sitting is generally seen as scummy.
This game is going to be long enough without you spamming up the thread.
smoke_Killah
smoke_Killah
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
Fair enough, must have missed it.
Now that you have seen it, do you still feel like it was a good idea?
smoke_Killah
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
/barn on the over aggression, but the horrible reason could just be an attempt at scum hunting. I mean, at the moment there is not much to go on.
FOS Rian
@Lost profit...I think you deserve the vote more, unvote, vote Lost Profit, for absolutely terrible play, for the town at least. I don't think you've actually contributed anything meaningful and have only gotten yourself into trouble. Not productive at all.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
vote: khorney666