Wow. I'm surprised we won. And with AsianInvasion confirming himself as town in this game in another game thread, too.
RobRoy, I have no idea what it is about your games that makes them go so long. 9 days for a 17-player game, sheesh.
Shame on my scumteam for both (A) killing Sepiriel before Vezok and (B) skipping a nightkill. Both were supposed to implicate Vezok as scum, but both of those things were things Vezok never would have done as scum.
Originally Posted by Ged
DKD scummier than Cantrip.
AI scummier than falkonn.
Originally Posted by AsianInvasion
How I see it (figures approximate):
100% chance of dkd being scum
95% Cantripmancer
4% Ged
1% falkonn
Yeah, I thought for sure we were going to have to go through another day before finding out the end of the game.
Also, those are good points seppel. I didn't think about it through that lense at all. I also didn't know that AI confirmed himself in another thread. If people inside this game had seen that I don't know how we would have won at all.
As for game balance...intellectually I believe it to be balanced. But during the game it sure felt like we had our backs against the wall the second that Seppel was copped.
Shame on my scumteam for both (A) killing Sepiriel before Vezok and (B) skipping a nightkill. Both were supposed to implicate Vezok as scum, but both of those things were things Vezok never would have done as scum.
O.o Vezok wouldn't have killed Sepiriel before himself?
As for game balance...intellectually I believe it to be balanced. But during the game it sure felt like we had our backs against the wall the second that Seppel was copped.
Yeah, I felt about Seppel's toughguy kill much like I felt about my giftgiving: he might have been better off without using it at all. Of course, if he was going down anyway...
Ah well... replacing in is every bit as hard as they say and every bit as frustrating, specially for someone new to the game, but i still learned a lot
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
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That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Congrats Scum on your win. Had I not gotten the low down from RR after my death I would have never pegged you two (Cantrip and Falk) as scum. Though knowing I spent many days yelling at my computer at how this was going.
I take responsibility for this loss. A combination of terrible laziness, paranoia against dropkickdude due to Heroes, and simple bad timing on my part led to me giving falkonn a free pass.
Lesson learned: I won't replace into a game I know I won't have time for. Sorry, town.
Congratulations are in order for the scum team, especially falkonn. Apparently after Dilbert you figured out how to play scum better.
Thanks for hosting, RobRoy.
First off, thank you RobRoy for an amazing game, and amazing modship.
Second off, I'm going to have to trump AI and say that I should take the blame here. I was wrong about everything I tried to do and let my feelings cloud my judgments. I just couldn't see through constantly butting heads with AI (whom I really do not have any ill will towards) and Cantrip agreeing with me the majority of the time. This has been a tremendous learning experience for me, and I hope I do better next time.
One-shot extra mafia kill that exposes the user, huh? Shame we didn't lynch you yesterday like I advocated, we'd be up one more townie.
This is just for posterity's sake, really; but your crazy-townie style is pretty hard to fake-replicate as scum and I just wish I could've explained it a little better before you got the shot off.
As VibeBox noted, your "catch" on Vezok is flatly wrong, Seppel. Kraj mentioned a redirector yesterday.
Quote from Seppel »
In the meantime, Tilde and Falkonn are scum.
So, clearly the correct play is vote for Vezok? :boggle:
I do this a lot when I'm scum, too, Seppel - toss someone who is scum in with someone on my watch list (go see how many times I mentioned PM and Tordeck in Highlander but never voted) but vote a weaker townie candidate. Spoilers below on which I think is which.
I don't like Vezok, either (as I've mentioned before), but this doesn't make sense.
Quote from Seppel »
This is stupid.
You're right - it is stupid that you haven't been lynched yet.
There's no logic in the world that dictates you should have shot TACKY last night; he was unclaimed and we were already down one townie with Kraj's death. You did it - and picked a scummy-looking target - so you could try to talk your way out of this today. I'm not buying it at all.
Why wouldn't you have shot Tilde if you insisted on shooting someone? I've got a pretty good guess on that, too. (hint: Tilde is your scum buddy.)
/sigh, I hate being dead. Once Tilde turned up town, Falkonn would've been my next target.
I was biting my nails up until the end. I thought Cantrip getting busy with irl stuff was unfortunate but I'm glad we won in the end. This game taught me a bit on how to improve my scum game.
"There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx Cube
Thanks to everyone who played. I'd like to apologize for not wrapping this up immediately - I've been spending my elective time on other things recently. I do want to post some final thoughts, though.
I did consider this game to be won by the scum a few days before that actually happened. I actually had thought that falkonn was going down, but Cantripmancer had done a great job of acting townie, and especially of distancing from falkonn, so I didn't believe there was any chance that both of the remaining mafia were going down. I don't usually do MVPs and LVPs, but Cantripmancer deserves specific mention for why the mafia took this one down.
This setup actually began life something like four years ago. I began my mafia career on MiseTings, and this was originally designed for play there. The original theme was "death", and there were a number of people who had vig abilities of different types. I think the setup I almost ran there was a 23 person game that could theoretically have killed 14 of them off by the start of Day 3. My first reviewer set me straight on some of the abuses I was doing, like the fact that with that many power roles there would be almost no room left for behavioral analysis. MT imploded before I could run the revised game there, and then it sat on the shelf for a while I waited for my turn to run here.
Due to a quirk of scheduling, I ended up on both the Normal and Specialty lists here, and by the time I was near the top on one of them (Specialty) I had designed a new game that I wanted to run in that slot instead of Powerful Wizard. That meant more revisions of Powerful Wizard to tone it down to fit a Normal setup, and I'm fairly happy with how it turned out in the end. I liked having a townie SK, even if Kraj fell on his sword on Day 1 to remove that element. I liked the way the various killing and investigative roles could interact, including my unholy love for gunsmiths. The one thing that I really should have changed was to make the Scarlet Witch's ability wear off on her death, as some people assumed was the case. That would have fit the theme better.
There has been a bit of talk recently about deadlines. I have tried out both using them and not recently, and I don't believe they really help out that much. Sure, they keep the game moving within certain bounds, but I think that they may reduce player enjoyment, and they also make it more likely that you will get near the deadline instead of ending the day early. I think active modding is more likely to keep things moving well than deadlines, if anyone is interested.
Thanks to all of the players, and especially to AsianInvasion and Sepiriel for replacing in after the game started - never a trivial task. I'm glad to finally get this baby out into the open, and I'm happy that you made it an enjoyable read.
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RobRoy, I have no idea what it is about your games that makes them go so long. 9 days for a 17-player game, sheesh.
Shame on my scumteam for both (A) killing Sepiriel before Vezok and (B) skipping a nightkill. Both were supposed to implicate Vezok as scum, but both of those things were things Vezok never would have done as scum.
Anyway, this was a fun, albeit long game.
Yeah, I thought for sure we were going to have to go through another day before finding out the end of the game.
Also, those are good points seppel. I didn't think about it through that lense at all. I also didn't know that AI confirmed himself in another thread. If people inside this game had seen that I don't know how we would have won at all.
As for game balance...intellectually I believe it to be balanced. But during the game it sure felt like we had our backs against the wall the second that Seppel was copped.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
O.o Vezok wouldn't have killed Sepiriel before himself?
But I get what you mean.
Yeah, I felt about Seppel's toughguy kill much like I felt about my giftgiving: he might have been better off without using it at all. Of course, if he was going down anyway...
The Family
Lesson learned: I won't replace into a game I know I won't have time for. Sorry, town.
Holy crap.
Yeah, we sucked this game.
Congratulations are in order for the scum team, especially falkonn. Apparently after Dilbert you figured out how to play scum better.
Thanks for hosting, RobRoy.
Second off, I'm going to have to trump AI and say that I should take the blame here. I was wrong about everything I tried to do and let my feelings cloud my judgments. I just couldn't see through constantly butting heads with AI (whom I really do not have any ill will towards) and Cantrip agreeing with me the majority of the time. This has been a tremendous learning experience for me, and I hope I do better next time.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
This is just for posterity's sake, really; but your crazy-townie style is pretty hard to fake-replicate as scum and I just wish I could've explained it a little better before you got the shot off.
/sigh, I hate being dead. Once Tilde turned up town, Falkonn would've been my next target.
GG, scummies.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I was biting my nails up until the end. I thought Cantrip getting busy with irl stuff was unfortunate but I'm glad we won in the end. This game taught me a bit on how to improve my scum game.
Props: RobRoy, 'Mancer, Seppel, Ged.
Slops: Everyone else. >: -(
WTFs: Vezok
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx
Cube
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I did consider this game to be won by the scum a few days before that actually happened. I actually had thought that falkonn was going down, but Cantripmancer had done a great job of acting townie, and especially of distancing from falkonn, so I didn't believe there was any chance that both of the remaining mafia were going down. I don't usually do MVPs and LVPs, but Cantripmancer deserves specific mention for why the mafia took this one down.
This setup actually began life something like four years ago. I began my mafia career on MiseTings, and this was originally designed for play there. The original theme was "death", and there were a number of people who had vig abilities of different types. I think the setup I almost ran there was a 23 person game that could theoretically have killed 14 of them off by the start of Day 3. My first reviewer set me straight on some of the abuses I was doing, like the fact that with that many power roles there would be almost no room left for behavioral analysis. MT imploded before I could run the revised game there, and then it sat on the shelf for a while I waited for my turn to run here.
Due to a quirk of scheduling, I ended up on both the Normal and Specialty lists here, and by the time I was near the top on one of them (Specialty) I had designed a new game that I wanted to run in that slot instead of Powerful Wizard. That meant more revisions of Powerful Wizard to tone it down to fit a Normal setup, and I'm fairly happy with how it turned out in the end. I liked having a townie SK, even if Kraj fell on his sword on Day 1 to remove that element. I liked the way the various killing and investigative roles could interact, including my unholy love for gunsmiths. The one thing that I really should have changed was to make the Scarlet Witch's ability wear off on her death, as some people assumed was the case. That would have fit the theme better.
There has been a bit of talk recently about deadlines. I have tried out both using them and not recently, and I don't believe they really help out that much. Sure, they keep the game moving within certain bounds, but I think that they may reduce player enjoyment, and they also make it more likely that you will get near the deadline instead of ending the day early. I think active modding is more likely to keep things moving well than deadlines, if anyone is interested.
Thanks to all of the players, and especially to AsianInvasion and Sepiriel for replacing in after the game started - never a trivial task. I'm glad to finally get this baby out into the open, and I'm happy that you made it an enjoyable read.