Pssst Axel, I agree with your most recent post to Sep (and would like to see him answer it non-sarcastically) but I would still like you to answer my query of you.
Want to get around to reading the thread tonight, but I'm just exhausted from the 12 hr flight. Will still try, but not promising anything. Worst case, I'll get caught up tomorrow morning. Promise.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Want to get around to reading the thread tonight, but I'm just exhausted from the 12 hr flight. Will still try, but not promising anything. Worst case, I'll get caught up tomorrow morning. Promise.
Haha, just don't suicide bomb anyone til you've read the thread kay?
Pssst Axel, I agree with your most recent post to Sep (and would like to see him answer it non-sarcastically) but I would still like you to answer my query of you.
Always a personal favorite scum strategy of mine, and perhaps because of that one I like to hunt for. If "honestly" is DYH's favorite scum tell, sucking up may be mine.
Why are you warning possible scum off like that, though? I mean, what was the purpose of your post, exactly?
You don't want the long explanation. The short explanation is that (1) I found it slightly suspicious that three people in quick succession appeared to leap to my defense, and (2) I was trying to be funny.
I don't think mentioning that I have a blind spot for people agreeing with me is going to warn people away from agreeing with me. YMMV.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I most definitely want to hear from arc but dkd's post lacks any sort of...sincerity. It's a blatant barn, but not enough to really make him look insanely scummy at this stage in the game. I'd like to see how his voting patterns occur throughout this game.
Vote: Wolf with a Bass
Can you tell me what in this post is making me vote you?
=====================
Haven't completely caught up, but this whole Sep/Eco thing is just reading like a joke gone too far (i.e., I'm not considering any of the actions/reactions there as solid evidence of anything).
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Arcadic's response about being able to read Sep seems genuine. Overconfident and potentially wrong, but I think he means it.
However, Arc, you still haven't properly addressed the whole random vote/real FoS issue. My most recent question about it was in #79.
You may not buy that i forgot but i do a lot of my Mafia posting at work, and that post was no exception. I had intended to unvote after making the RVS joke. Does it make sense? Nope. The FOS was a serious FOS. I do not remember exactly, but i believe i posted without reviewing that post because i had a machine to fix as i was making it. Then again, i should have know a joke about or around the RVS would be taken outta context again.....(this is sarcasm)
I'm not liking Axel's reactions to Sepiriel right now. Nothing concrete, but something feels off.
@Alpha
Oh i know. I don't let my confidence blind me.
God I feel like I'm playing a game of phoenix wright here with arc.
His vote seems to be out of time with the rest of the game when read over again. His comment after his vote sounds to me like it is sort of still a lingering RVS vote. All things considered his follow up post about feeling useless seems even more...interesting. Why is Axel still voting you if he feels useless at this point? Thanks for pointing this out to me, its hard playing mafia when I've spent the last week getting drunk consistently. I can't even play wow properly. Lol. Thankfully I go back to work Wednesday so that'll be good for my liver.
TLDR; I missed a small detail, sorry.
Interesting response, a bit hard to understand though. Did you not realize Axel had placed a vote on me until i pointed it out? I don't feel like my question was answered, or if it was i cannot decipher the answer.
Want to get around to reading the thread tonight, but I'm just exhausted from the 12 hr flight. Will still try, but not promising anything. Worst case, I'll get caught up tomorrow morning. Promise.
Pssst. When you read the rest of the thread you will notice you are committing a very serious scum tell
Yes all those reasons were around, but now he's duplicated them. Thus twice the reason to vote for him.
This post seems off to me. I can understand that you dont like an action and find it scummy, but does doing something again really get a vote? Hmmm It feels like something I would do, but I am not sure if it means its scummy. Just strange.
Gotta love how the scum team jumped on defense mode
Of all the sep stuff, I have found most of it to not seem to be that important, but that line really felt out of place. I have seen people OMGUS at one player, or maybe 2, but to all 4 attacking them? Usually I dont think OMGUSing is even scummy, but in this situation it really doesnt look right.
The more sep tries to explain, the more I find just to be confused townie/ not understanding of what others are doing, but not outright scummy.
Apparently my random vote is still there, Unvote
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I most definitely want to hear from arc but dkd's post lacks any sort of...sincerity. It's a blatant barn, but not enough to really make him look insanely scummy at this stage in the game. I'd like to see how his voting patterns occur throughout this game.
Your words betray themselves. If you really wanted to closely watch his voting patterns, you wouldn't say as much. You wouldn't alert a player to a watch vector if you were really concerned with watching it.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
You had enough time to note that there was "Interesting stuff going on here", but not enough to read 50 posts? Not buying it.
It takes a lot more time to format quotes and such than just to toss a vote out. I knew I wanted to pressure you a bit; I didn't have the time to give a full response.
Because, in all honesty, it's neutral. So I have no more reason to be voting him. I am "giving him a pass" on the single statement he made which was what drew attention to him in the first place. I am hardly giving him a pass on being scum.
Nice qualifier btw. You may be unaware, it's one of my favorite scum tells.
I can remember this coming up previously (Inheritance, maybe?) and my research didn't support it as a tell.
Followup: post is here. My search of that thread for "honestly" also turned up both Cyan and I using it as town.
Still waiting on desCoures to roll back into the thread.
I can remember this coming up previously (Inheritance, maybe?) and my research didn't support it as a tell.
Followup: post is here. My search of that thread for "honestly" also turned up both Cyan and I using it as town.
I know Townies say it too. There's no such thing as a perfect Tell. The idea of the "Honestly" tell is that scum tend to say it disproportionately.
For my own amusement I just went and did an "Honestly" search of the most recently completed game (which was, in fact, your game, Powerful Wizards). Turns out that 5 players used the word "Honestly" (in the manner which makes it suspicious - there are ways to use it that do not constitute the "tell"). 3 were Townies, 2 were Scum.
More relevantly, however, one of the Townies who said it constantly was Sepiriel. Something like eight times, way more than anyone else.
From this I conclude that, whatever merits this tell may have for some players, it means precisely zero as regards to Sep. That's just how he posts.
So I learned something today. Go me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
You don't want the long explanation. The short explanation is that (1) I found it slightly suspicious that three people in quick succession appeared to leap to my defense, and (2) I was trying to be funny.
I don't think mentioning that I have a blind spot for people agreeing with me is going to warn people away from agreeing with me. YMMV.
I dunno.
Quote from Axelrod »
Man, I have such a blind spot when it comes to people agreeing with me. Like, how can I possibly be suspicious of them when they are so obviously correct and virtuous.
I'm still watching everyone. Beware.
I grant you that the rush to agree with you did look a bit brown-nosey. For the rest, I still think this reads more like a warn-off than anything else, jokey or not. The same type of thing for which atlseal has just stung Wolf with a Bass, I note.
Your words betray themselves. If you really wanted to closely watch his voting patterns, you wouldn't say as much. You wouldn't alert a player to a watch vector if you were really concerned with watching it.
Anything else you want to tell me that I should and should not do? What I am most interested in is the fact that you seem to be implying something instead of directly stating it. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your writing, but please humor me. What exactly are you saying with this? The words do not betray themselves, as words are just words. If you meant to say my words betray me, then you probably should have said that instead. Either way, your reasoning for voting me for doing something you personally would not do seems particularly weak and as it stands it would appear that DKD doesn't even care that I said that with his insofar as I can tell wishy-washy voting pattern.
Your words betray themselves. If you really wanted to closely watch his voting patterns, you wouldn't say as much. You wouldn't alert a player to a watch vector if you were really concerned with watching it.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Anything else you want to tell me that I should and should not do? What I am most interested in is the fact that you seem to be implying something instead of directly stating it. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your writing, but please humor me. What exactly are you saying with this? The words do not betray themselves, as words are just words. If you meant to say my words betray me, then you probably should have said that instead. Either way, your reasoning for voting me for doing something you personally would not do seems particularly weak and as it stands it would appear that DKD doesn't even care that I said that with his insofar as I can tell wishy-washy voting pattern.
Infinis and Raf seem to have understood what I was saying just fine, but to rephrase:
It's not just something that I personally would not do, it's something that nobody who means that statement would do. It's like quantum mechanics, you change the result just by measuring it. In this case, you get tainted results because you made it apparent that was going to be a DKD instrument of measurement for you. Whereas, if you really wanted to watch DKD's votes more closely for patterns, you wouldn't announce it ahead of the fact.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
1. If you really can read me you should be able to tell what a public assault on my playstyle would accomplish :p.
2. Regardless, you where part of the town, you lasted longer than day 2, you cannot just simply state the only reason i pulled it off was because the town was horrible, because you where part of said town.
@dC: I would like to hear your reasoning behind both the insinuation i am scum and the idea i am Arcadic's scumbuddy.
I didn't, and still do not like, your exchange with Ecophagy at the beginning. It sounded very forced from your side.
Immediately following pressure from you, Arcadic posted saying that he thought you were town, stating that he was 'confident' in his ability to read you. As we have since seen, he has no ground to stand on with that particular assertion - an assertion he persists in pushing, although that latter is a null tell.
So when a player defends a suspicious player in a suspicious way... well.
Given the amount of deflection and word twisting you are doing i am inclined to believe you are trying to sound townie, specially because you are writing so much but actually conveying so little, that to me is a scum tell.
Untrue, you are unvoting, you stated he could still be scum, that implies you still hold suspicions/reservation hence you still hold reason to keep a vote on him, but instead of continuing pressure on him you have relinquished by unvoting.
As others have stated, both of the above assertions are patently untrue, and have little to no merit. I'm a bit torn, however, as to whether this is more overeager townie or grasping scum.
The i made in the part you where responding should make this quite clear.
No he wasn't, the whole point is he still considers Arc to be possible scum but is ok with just letting it go for now.
No I did not miss the italics, that however does not mean he is not meaning it by trying to pass it as humor.
Stephanie Meyer is the epitome of 'plainly written', Axel is the equivalent of Ed Greenwood so no he has been anything but concise or plain in his writing.
My first impression about Arc is that this business with Sep either outing himself easily as scum, vs not dieing is mostly pointless in my opinion as either he had a faulty memory (Which I see as most probable) or he is trying to deflect attention away from a scumbuddy, which only becomes relevant if both of them are scum. So, I think that this point against him is mostly trivial.
To all those who asked: the vote on Ecophagy was mostly gut. I didn't have time to reread then, so I just fired the vote out to check for a reaction. I was expecting one from Eco, though, not from a third of the thread.
Hmmmmm. So your 'gut' said that Eco was scummier than Sep in that exchange?
On reread, it still feels to me like Sepiriel was explaining his position and his jokes, while Ecophagy was defending his. Nothing else I can really point to. His comments about Sepiriel later on show that he is following up and contributing, though, so while that exchange still reads a little off to me, I will unvote for now.
This feels both arrogant and natural. I haven't played with Arcadic before that I can remember, but unless he was overly humble in his previous games I'm willing to believe that he actually does think he can read Sepiriel now. The bit about checking out the people attacking him is also in line with this.
@Magwald: why are you quoting everything at us? Can you tell me if this is a post restriction or a playstyle choice?
zindabad is arrogant as scum. Our positions may differ on the 'natural' bit, but why is arrogance a town tell again?
It takes a lot more time to format quotes and such than just to toss a vote out. I knew I wanted to pressure you a bit; I didn't have the time to give a full response.
I can remember this coming up previously (Inheritance, maybe?) and my research didn't support it as a tell.
Followup: post is here. My search of that thread for "honestly" also turned up both Cyan and I using it as town.
Still waiting on desCoures to roll back into the thread.
Really. Why so interested in myself? Nothing to say about Sepiriel's latest posts?
You've never played with me.
I know i can read Sepiriel now. Yes, this is slightly arrogant. The whole reason i bought his claim in Annie's game was because he wasn't being his normal self. And i don't want to constantly refer to why we never actually lynched Sepiriel; but honestly the town simply got to dependent on Cop results and as such forgot to look at behavior.
A bit quick to latch onto RobRoy's characterization of yourself? If you yourself think that you are being 'slightly arrogant', why does none of the rest of this post show any sign of attempting to take a more rational look at your 'Sepiriel read'?
Bookeeping:
So these are the people who vocalized wanting to hear my reasoning.
LRD
Eco
TFF
Axelrod
Vampyr
Magwald
DKD
Rafealk
WODOG (or WoD)
jskura
desCoures
WwaB
Here are those who posted between my posts without any commentary on myself.
creampuff
Infinis
Those who placed votes were DKD, descoures and Axelrod. Of those, the worst offenders were descoures and Axel for their lack of content surrounding their posts. What is most interesting is this post here, as pointed out by Vampyr
There's more interaction but the key part to me is that there are 2 votes on me at this point, but he singles out DKD, not Axelrod. So WwaB, what about Axel's post here is any better than what DKD had posted?
That's... a lot of different names, and a lot of different directions. You begin by calling out myself, dropkickdude, and Axelrod... then question WwaB with an accusatory tone towards Axelrod and not dropkickdude. What exactly are you trying to say here, and what relevance does it have to your above list?
1. I'm sure this public assault on his playstyle will make him think.
2. The biggest thing you have to remember about Annie's game was the town's willingness to flail. Again, beating a dead horse, but the town past day 2 was horrible.
Long post is long. If i missed your question, let me know.
“Wolf with a Bass’s long explanations combined with my positive read on him early on are leading me to believe he is town. In doing a reread I noticed that RobRoy had singled out this desCoures post, and rightly so, as it smacks of opportunism. There was slight pressure on both Arcadic and Sepiriel, so DesCoures quickly tied them together. It should be noted that DesCourses unvoted Sepiriel, someone he said was potentially scum, in order to vote another person he saw as scum. I don’t believe the convictions in his vote or his comment were strong at all. I intend to pursue this.”
Vote DesCoures
You can see my reasoning in my response to Sepiriel. However, if I think both are scum, or are likely to be scum, what is wrong with voting one or the other?
I'm also fairly certain I all but started real pressure on Sepiriel (albeit without stating my reasoning initially), so that part of your reasoning is wrong as well, by the way.
I don't like the tone of this post. I'm not sure what it is; if anyone can read it and tell me why I don't like it, I would be very grateful. It might be the way the attacks are phrased or something; Axelrod's complaints sounded legit, but WoD's just aren't ringing true to me.
Also, I think Seperiel has been quite earnest and expressive. Pretty much town as I see it. Arcadic has been the opposite, but I also think he's town, simply from the calm, thoughtful response.
.....well, now I'm certain Sep and Arc are scum. And that WoD is town. Because Nom's always wrong.
/sarcasm
-------------------------
I am currently willing to vote for Sepiriel, Arcadic, and maybe RobRoy.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I'm not prolific early game. But my opinion was asked for vis a vis Sep vs Eco.
It's null. That' my opinion. They could be scum who hatched a plan to start distancing day 1. Sep plays the aggressor and Eco plays the laid back (but concerned) townie who laughs off misguided aggression. Or they could both be town and the exchange stands for itself.
As for the two other combo's hard to tell this early and requires stretching a little more than I like Day 1
What I didnt like was the not so subtle "You've ruined the trap we were laying" post from somebody in regards to arcadic, kqc i believe, but ill look later when not so tired.
“In the above post he claims meta on himself, gives no real insight into the Sep / Eco exchange, and then claims to not like a post, but can hardly recall who said it. Lazy.”
“atlseal’s point about WolfwithaBass was a good one. Infinis’s barn was not. Interesting to note that Infinis didn’t like a kqc comment earlier but didn’t vote him, and here Infinis doesn’t like a WwaB comment and voted him.”
“I believe Infinis is scum trying to stay out of the spotlight by drifting through day 1 providing minimal content and weak barns. When called out on the minimal content, Infinis claims it’s his meta.”
Vote Infinis
“I would like people to weigh in on whether or not this is typical day 1 Infinis behavior.”
but rather that he still feels Arcadic is a good candidate for scum
Yeah, that definitely is not something he said.
But, nevermind that, it could very well be unintentional misreading on your part. Let's agree to disagree here and move on to more important things.
-Because what I'm really interested in here is how you again posted without answering me.
Anything else you want to tell me that I should and should not do? What I am most interested in is the fact that you seem to be implying something instead of directly stating it. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your writing, but please humor me. What exactly are you saying with this? The words do not betray themselves, as words are just words. If you meant to say my words betray me, then you probably should have said that instead. Either way, your reasoning for voting me for doing something you personally would not do seems particularly weak and as it stands it would appear that DKD doesn't even care that I said that with his insofar as I can tell wishy-washy voting pattern.
You're being awfully defensive for some pretty minor pressure.
It's also interesting that you bristle at being told how to play while also chiding atlseal about his wording.
Unvote the random.
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
.....well, now I'm certain Sep and Arc are scum. And that WoD is town. Because Nom's always wrong.
/sarcasm
So true.
I'm not sure on Wolfwithabass yet, but I am liking magwald; he brought up an excellent point in a town manner.
The point I see in favor of Wolf is that the thing he did wrong is neither immediately obvious to be wrong, and he doesn't seem to think he's wrong about it, even after having it pointed out to him.
Quote from alphainsideous »
You're being awfully defensive for some pretty minor pressure.
It's also interesting that you bristle at being told how to play while also chiding atlseal about his wording.
Unvote the random.
This post seems rather suspect to me. He's getting a nice stab in at wolf with a bass, while avoiding getting on the wagon and having a small enough point he can either use it as a jumping point to get on the wagon or easily back away from it depending on how the wagon plays out.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
“atlseal’s point about WolfwithaBass was a good one. Infinis’s barn was not. Interesting to note that Infinis didn’t like a kqc comment earlier but didn’t vote him, and here Infinis doesn’t like a WwaB comment and voted him.”
What is kqc?
Thank you in advance for the answers.
I need to go back and do a reread since Sunday. I feel like I've gone spinning out of control and lost my train of thought with trying to keep referenced games and people I'm not familiar with correctly separated and understood.
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What I didnt like was the not so subtle "You've ruined the trap we were laying" post from somebody in regards to arcadic, kqc i believe, but ill look later when not so tired.
It's "Your mileage may vary." As in "You may have a different opinion."
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
School (and having to return to a school time table after holiday breaks) has been brutal, i'll go back and start replying to everything thats been addressed to me this weekend.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Hmm. I'm honestly stumped as to how to precede with debating the point brought against me. I am still of the opinion that what I said wasn't a big deal, it is you atlseal who is making a big deal out of it. (or at the very least trying to make it into a spectacle.) The fact that you are providing sound reasoning for your vote to me says you are at least interested in participating in the scum hunt. As for Infinis, it would appear that he is following in the trend of /barn /vote as seems to be one of norms for this game. Not sure what to make of it yet, but it would appear that his reasoning for voting me is comparable to DKD's voting for arcadic earlier.
"Considering RafaelK made the post about tipping off Arcadic, I assume Infinis was using 'kqc' to refer to him."
Thanks for doing the research (I could have sworn you were AZ but a quick scan of my games played can't find where my mind pulled this from. To be specific it was day 1 or 2 and AZ went at me for my playstyle in the quoted text post style here. When I get a real computer, not this netbook loaner; I, unlike Bono, will find what I'm looking for!!)
I didnt think it was RafK I thought it was... "My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song"
But yeah feel free to examine my playstyle, played with everyone except Wolf. I think Vampyr replaced out in our only game...
As for the barn, the post was sound reasoning adding to it just to add was pointless.
I read through the thread twice and I brought up what bothered me and answered a query made of me.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I see nothing wrong with Infinis at this time. Barning a solid point on Day 1 without much else to go on isn't terrible. Self meta-ing isn't a scum tell as far as I know. And laziness is at best a vanilla Town tell.
Okay, so now I think I want to know what other games Wolf with a Bass has played in becasue he is posting oddly, and it would maybe help to get a sense of if this is normal for him or not.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I see nothing wrong with Infinis at this time. Barning a solid point on Day 1 without much else to go on isn't terrible. Self meta-ing isn't a scum tell as far as I know. And laziness is at best a vanilla Town tell.
Be careful with the highlighted section. Dont forget, we are all vanilla.
I've just started a new schedule at work, and it's taking a little getting used to, so apologies for the absence, but at least it seems there hasnt been a whole lot going on. A couple small accusatory shots at Sep and Wolf for the most part, but I'm not getting any sort of scum vibes yet.
Wolf seems to be acting like he was in the basic we were both in (Hell's Kitchen), and he was town there too.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Be careful with the highlighted section. Dont forget, we are all vanilla.
I've just started a new schedule at work, and it's taking a little getting used to, so apologies for the absence, but at least it seems there hasnt been a whole lot going on. A couple small accusatory shots at Sep and Wolf for the most part, but I'm not getting any sort of scum vibes yet.
Wolf seems to be acting like he was in the basic we were both in (Hell's Kitchen), and he was town there too.
Hence the 'at best' qualifier. I actually don't think it's any sort of tell at all, other than the person is lazy.
Really. Why so interested in myself? Nothing to say about Sepiriel's latest posts?
Sepiriel is talking. Having significant interactions with other players in the game. There's no reason for me to jump in on that when a lot of useful reactions are already being posted in the thread. Until you posted this, you weren't. That makes you more worthy of attention than him.
Since I've been asked, though: nothing that I've seen from Sepiriel makes me really want to vote him. It's all things that are possible from a townie point of view.
Case against WWaB is meh, he's playing like he did in Hell's Kitchen. While I agree that you probably shouldn't inform a player that you'll be watching him, but that sort of statement comes up fairly often.
You may not buy that i forgot but i do a lot of my Mafia posting at work, and that post was no exception. I had intended to unvote after making the RVS joke. Does it make sense? Nope. The FOS was a serious FOS. I do not remember exactly, but i believe i posted without reviewing that post because i had a machine to fix as i was making it. Then again, i should have know a joke about or around the RVS would be taken outta context again.....(this is sarcasm)
My point is thus: Why would you only FoS when did not currently have a real vote down? If you genuinely suspect someone, why would you make a non-serious vote in the same post as you only FoS them? It just doesn't make sense.
Sorry but I've had to request a replacement; I don't have the time to play wholeheartedly, and I think it makes the most sense to back out rather than play a game that I can't really contribute to properly.
Thanks for the good time, and I hope to see you in a game when I'm not quite so busy.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Case against WWaB is meh, he's playing like he did in Hell's Kitchen. While I agree that you probably shouldn't inform a player that you'll be watching him, but that sort of statement comes up fairly often.
Can you say more specifically in what way you think he's playing like he did in Hell's Kitchen?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Overall, the bits of WWaB's play that said 'town' to me, are few in far between, and are in my view completely overshadowed by a number of very bad posts.[/b]
I'm seeing the "bad" posts, but I'm also seeing them as only that: bad rather than scummy. Nothing really looks vote-worthy there to me.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
I haven't been feeling well of late (think im suffering exhaustion somehow...), I am trying to catch up but if i miss any questions please let me know.
At the time your posts were what i considered leaps in logic and which i wanted to talk about but didn't want to offtopic things as we where still waiting for Arcadic to respond to the pressure.
I didn't, and still do not like, your exchange with Ecophagy at the beginning. It sounded very forced from your side.
Not much i can say here, i actually started the whole thing and its pretty much how i've always posted, i do find it odd people always find me forced when im the one initiating stuff...
Immediately following pressure from you, Arcadic posted saying that he thought you were town, stating that he was 'confident' in his ability to read you. As we have since seen, he has no ground to stand on with that particular assertion - an assertion he persists in pushing, although that latter is a null tell.
So when a player defends a suspicious player in a suspicious way... well.
Actually, what do you think of Arcadic?
Ok, i can understand your reasoning as well as the reasoning behind your statements now.
As for Arcadic,do correct me if im wrong but i believe all 3 games i have played with he has been town and my opinion is this pompuos, arrogant feel he gives is pretty much the same, i do not know of any game he has played as scum but even if i did i dont find that a valid comparison point since i did not experience the personality as the game progressed, right now i can only say he is acting as town as he has always been in all games i have played with him.
As others have stated, both of the above assertions are patently untrue, and have little to no merit. I'm a bit torn, however, as to whether this is more overeager townie or grasping scum.
This, on the other hand, I'm not torn on at all. This is a red flag statement right there. Hyperdefensive much?
Not really, the exact same point (or an incredibly similar one, i cannot recall exactly right now) was raised on me in 26 i believe so seeing it happen again im just honestly rolling my eyes.
The main point was that three completely unrelated people suddenly jumped to defend something completely unrelated to them, I see that as buttering scum or scum defending scum buddies.
So you think Arcadic is scum?
I think right now he is acting about as town as in all prior games i have been with him, whether he truly is town or just posing as town i cannot tell yet.
I disdain your choice in literature. /offtopic
I was trying to make a point please do not take that to be my choice of literature.
I agree that the entire 'stating not enough time' thing is really just a null tell. Your overdefensiveness over it, though, isn't.
Regardless of how you feel about self-meta the only thing i can say to this part is that this is my standard play style, 26 i explained and over explained and overexplained without being even prompted, same for defense, a review of my games would show this is actually a null tell since i have even used it as scum.
Where did this occur? Quote specific parts of his posts and explain, preferably as thoroughly as possible.
Forgive the lack of quotes but im about to go lay down, im really feeling exhausted for some reason...
The whole thing for me felt like one big word twist, he started by pretending to answer the question, turned it into "but why simply unvote when i can also give a treatise?", followed that with a refutal of my understanding (this in itself a valid point now that i reconsider), but followed by redirecting with questions towards me.
Thats why i said it was word twisting, and deflection.
OK im out for a while im not feeling to well.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Can you say more specifically in what way you think he's playing like he did in Hell's Kitchen?
From Hell's Kitchen, I remember him being quite verbose and not clear in his communication: quite a 'stream of conciousness' approach. I also recall that he made quasi-philosophical statements - like his "The words do not betray themselves, as words are just words. If you meant to say my words betray me, then you probably should have said that instead" in #171.
Oh good grief.
You don't want the long explanation. The short explanation is that (1) I found it slightly suspicious that three people in quick succession appeared to leap to my defense, and (2) I was trying to be funny.
I don't think mentioning that I have a blind spot for people agreeing with me is going to warn people away from agreeing with me. YMMV.
Vote: Wolf with a Bass
Can you tell me what in this post is making me vote you?
=====================
Haven't completely caught up, but this whole Sep/Eco thing is just reading like a joke gone too far (i.e., I'm not considering any of the actions/reactions there as solid evidence of anything).
You may not buy that i forgot but i do a lot of my Mafia posting at work, and that post was no exception. I had intended to unvote after making the RVS joke. Does it make sense? Nope. The FOS was a serious FOS. I do not remember exactly, but i believe i posted without reviewing that post because i had a machine to fix as i was making it. Then again, i should have know a joke about or around the RVS would be taken outta context again.....(this is sarcasm)
I'm not liking Axel's reactions to Sepiriel right now. Nothing concrete, but something feels off.
@Alpha
Oh i know. I don't let my confidence blind me.
I want to see DesC's answer to Sepiriel
Interesting response, a bit hard to understand though. Did you not realize Axel had placed a vote on me until i pointed it out? I don't feel like my question was answered, or if it was i cannot decipher the answer.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Pssst. When you read the rest of the thread you will notice you are committing a very serious scum tell
This post seems off to me. I can understand that you dont like an action and find it scummy, but does doing something again really get a vote? Hmmm It feels like something I would do, but I am not sure if it means its scummy. Just strange.
Of all the sep stuff, I have found most of it to not seem to be that important, but that line really felt out of place. I have seen people OMGUS at one player, or maybe 2, but to all 4 attacking them? Usually I dont think OMGUSing is even scummy, but in this situation it really doesnt look right.
The more sep tries to explain, the more I find just to be confused townie/ not understanding of what others are doing, but not outright scummy.
Apparently my random vote is still there, Unvote
Sep started looking a lot worse in the later posts.
I still like my vote on Wolf.
Arc, yes I did miss it in the scheme of things.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
Your words betray themselves. If you really wanted to closely watch his voting patterns, you wouldn't say as much. You wouldn't alert a player to a watch vector if you were really concerned with watching it.
It takes a lot more time to format quotes and such than just to toss a vote out. I knew I wanted to pressure you a bit; I didn't have the time to give a full response.
I can remember this coming up previously (Inheritance, maybe?) and my research didn't support it as a tell.
Followup: post is here. My search of that thread for "honestly" also turned up both Cyan and I using it as town.
Still waiting on desCoures to roll back into the thread.
I know Townies say it too. There's no such thing as a perfect Tell. The idea of the "Honestly" tell is that scum tend to say it disproportionately.
For my own amusement I just went and did an "Honestly" search of the most recently completed game (which was, in fact, your game, Powerful Wizards). Turns out that 5 players used the word "Honestly" (in the manner which makes it suspicious - there are ways to use it that do not constitute the "tell"). 3 were Townies, 2 were Scum.
More relevantly, however, one of the Townies who said it constantly was Sepiriel. Something like eight times, way more than anyone else.
From this I conclude that, whatever merits this tell may have for some players, it means precisely zero as regards to Sep. That's just how he posts.
So I learned something today. Go me.
I dunno.
I grant you that the rush to agree with you did look a bit brown-nosey. For the rest, I still think this reads more like a warn-off than anything else, jokey or not. The same type of thing for which atlseal has just stung Wolf with a Bass, I note.
Anything else you want to tell me that I should and should not do? What I am most interested in is the fact that you seem to be implying something instead of directly stating it. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your writing, but please humor me. What exactly are you saying with this? The words do not betray themselves, as words are just words. If you meant to say my words betray me, then you probably should have said that instead. Either way, your reasoning for voting me for doing something you personally would not do seems particularly weak and as it stands it would appear that DKD doesn't even care that I said that with his insofar as I can tell wishy-washy voting pattern.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
Have to agree with this point. Vote:WolfwithaBass
12-11? I'm losing track
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Infinis and Raf seem to have understood what I was saying just fine, but to rephrase:
It's not just something that I personally would not do, it's something that nobody who means that statement would do. It's like quantum mechanics, you change the result just by measuring it. In this case, you get tainted results because you made it apparent that was going to be a DKD instrument of measurement for you. Whereas, if you really wanted to watch DKD's votes more closely for patterns, you wouldn't announce it ahead of the fact.
Make the statement that I underlined, that is.
@Sepiriel
*raises eyebrow*
What exactly puzzles you?
I didn't, and still do not like, your exchange with Ecophagy at the beginning. It sounded very forced from your side.
Immediately following pressure from you, Arcadic posted saying that he thought you were town, stating that he was 'confident' in his ability to read you. As we have since seen, he has no ground to stand on with that particular assertion - an assertion he persists in pushing, although that latter is a null tell.
So when a player defends a suspicious player in a suspicious way... well.
Actually, what do you think of Arcadic?
As others have stated, both of the above assertions are patently untrue, and have little to no merit. I'm a bit torn, however, as to whether this is more overeager townie or grasping scum.
This, on the other hand, I'm not torn on at all. This is a red flag statement right there. Hyperdefensive much?
So you think Arcadic is scum?
I disdain your choice in literature. /offtopic
I agree that the entire 'stating not enough time' thing is really just a null tell. Your overdefensiveness over it, though, isn't.
@creampuffeater
Hmmm.
@RobRoy
Hmmmmm. So your 'gut' said that Eco was scummier than Sep in that exchange?
....mmmm.
*looks two quotes above*
Pot, kettle?
zindabad is arrogant as scum. Our positions may differ on the 'natural' bit, but why is arrogance a town tell again?
Also, teaching a man to fish by example?
Really. Why so interested in myself? Nothing to say about Sepiriel's latest posts?
@Arcadic
A bit quick to latch onto RobRoy's characterization of yourself? If you yourself think that you are being 'slightly arrogant', why does none of the rest of this post show any sign of attempting to take a more rational look at your 'Sepiriel read'?
What is the point of this list?
That's... a lot of different names, and a lot of different directions. You begin by calling out myself, dropkickdude, and Axelrod... then question WwaB with an accusatory tone towards Axelrod and not dropkickdude. What exactly are you trying to say here, and what relevance does it have to your above list?
1 is actually a good point.
@Magwald
You can see my reasoning in my response to Sepiriel. However, if I think both are scum, or are likely to be scum, what is wrong with voting one or the other?
I'm also fairly certain I all but started real pressure on Sepiriel (albeit without stating my reasoning initially), so that part of your reasoning is wrong as well, by the way.
@Nom_Anor
.....well, now I'm certain Sep and Arc are scum. And that WoD is town. Because Nom's always wrong.
/sarcasm
-------------------------
I am currently willing to vote for Sepiriel, Arcadic, and maybe RobRoy.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
“I’m interested in Infinis. Below is the entirety of his post-RVS contributions to the game.”
“In the above post he claims meta on himself, gives no real insight into the Sep / Eco exchange, and then claims to not like a post, but can hardly recall who said it. Lazy.”
“atlseal’s point about WolfwithaBass was a good one. Infinis’s barn was not. Interesting to note that Infinis didn’t like a kqc comment earlier but didn’t vote him, and here Infinis doesn’t like a WwaB comment and voted him.”
“I believe Infinis is scum trying to stay out of the spotlight by drifting through day 1 providing minimal content and weak barns. When called out on the minimal content, Infinis claims it’s his meta.”
Vote Infinis
“I would like people to weigh in on whether or not this is typical day 1 Infinis behavior.”
Yeah, that definitely is not something he said.
But, nevermind that, it could very well be unintentional misreading on your part. Let's agree to disagree here and move on to more important things.
-Because what I'm really interested in here is how you again posted without answering me.
So, once more:
Where did this occur? Quote specific parts of his posts and explain, preferably as thoroughly as possible.
You're being awfully defensive for some pretty minor pressure.
It's also interesting that you bristle at being told how to play while also chiding atlseal about his wording.
Unvote the random.
So true.
I'm not sure on Wolfwithabass yet, but I am liking magwald; he brought up an excellent point in a town manner.
The point I see in favor of Wolf is that the thing he did wrong is neither immediately obvious to be wrong, and he doesn't seem to think he's wrong about it, even after having it pointed out to him.
This post seems rather suspect to me. He's getting a nice stab in at wolf with a bass, while avoiding getting on the wagon and having a small enough point he can either use it as a jumping point to get on the wagon or easily back away from it depending on how the wagon plays out.
What is YMMV?
What is kqc?
Thank you in advance for the answers.
I need to go back and do a reread since Sunday. I feel like I've gone spinning out of control and lost my train of thought with trying to keep referenced games and people I'm not familiar with correctly separated and understood.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
"Considering RafaelK made the post about tipping off Arcadic, I assume Infinis was using 'kqc' to refer to him."
It's "Your mileage may vary." As in "You may have a different opinion."
I also assume Infinis meant to refer to me, but I got no idea what kqc is meant to be.
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
^ This ^
Thanks for doing the research (I could have sworn you were AZ but a quick scan of my games played can't find where my mind pulled this from. To be specific it was day 1 or 2 and AZ went at me for my playstyle in the quoted text post style here. When I get a real computer, not this netbook loaner; I, unlike Bono, will find what I'm looking for!!)
I didnt think it was RafK I thought it was... "My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song"
But yeah feel free to examine my playstyle, played with everyone except Wolf. I think Vampyr replaced out in our only game...
As for the barn, the post was sound reasoning adding to it just to add was pointless.
I read through the thread twice and I brought up what bothered me and answered a query made of me.
12-11? I'm losing track
Sepiriel (3) - TheFooFish, Wrath of DoG, dropkickdude
Wolf with a Bass (2) - atlseal, Infinis
Arcadic (1) - desCoures
Axelrod (1) - Sepiriel
Infinis (1) - Magwald
It takes 11 to Lynch with 20 alive.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
Be careful with the highlighted section. Dont forget, we are all vanilla.
I've just started a new schedule at work, and it's taking a little getting used to, so apologies for the absence, but at least it seems there hasnt been a whole lot going on. A couple small accusatory shots at Sep and Wolf for the most part, but I'm not getting any sort of scum vibes yet.
Wolf seems to be acting like he was in the basic we were both in (Hell's Kitchen), and he was town there too.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Hence the 'at best' qualifier. I actually don't think it's any sort of tell at all, other than the person is lazy.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Yes.
Bit of a difference between voting someone for reaction and declaring two people scumbuddies.
The post being arrogant doesn't make him town; it just made him arrogant. It being natural was the town tell.
Sepiriel is talking. Having significant interactions with other players in the game. There's no reason for me to jump in on that when a lot of useful reactions are already being posted in the thread. Until you posted this, you weren't. That makes you more worthy of attention than him.
Since I've been asked, though: nothing that I've seen from Sepiriel makes me really want to vote him. It's all things that are possible from a townie point of view.
My point is thus: Why would you only FoS when did not currently have a real vote down? If you genuinely suspect someone, why would you make a non-serious vote in the same post as you only FoS them? It just doesn't make sense.
Sorry but I've had to request a replacement; I don't have the time to play wholeheartedly, and I think it makes the most sense to back out rather than play a game that I can't really contribute to properly.
Thanks for the good time, and I hope to see you in a game when I'm not quite so busy.
Nom
Can you say more specifically in what way you think he's playing like he did in Hell's Kitchen?
I'm seeing the "bad" posts, but I'm also seeing them as only that: bad rather than scummy. Nothing really looks vote-worthy there to me.
Still looking forward to sep's response.
Did you want my input on this as well since I originally brought it up, or just Eco?
At the time your posts were what i considered leaps in logic and which i wanted to talk about but didn't want to offtopic things as we where still waiting for Arcadic to respond to the pressure.
Not much i can say here, i actually started the whole thing and its pretty much how i've always posted, i do find it odd people always find me forced when im the one initiating stuff...
Ok, i can understand your reasoning as well as the reasoning behind your statements now.
As for Arcadic,do correct me if im wrong but i believe all 3 games i have played with he has been town and my opinion is this pompuos, arrogant feel he gives is pretty much the same, i do not know of any game he has played as scum but even if i did i dont find that a valid comparison point since i did not experience the personality as the game progressed, right now i can only say he is acting as town as he has always been in all games i have played with him.
Not really, the exact same point (or an incredibly similar one, i cannot recall exactly right now) was raised on me in 26 i believe so seeing it happen again im just honestly rolling my eyes.
The main point was that three completely unrelated people suddenly jumped to defend something completely unrelated to them, I see that as buttering scum or scum defending scum buddies.
I think right now he is acting about as town as in all prior games i have been with him, whether he truly is town or just posing as town i cannot tell yet.
I was trying to make a point please do not take that to be my choice of literature.
Regardless of how you feel about self-meta the only thing i can say to this part is that this is my standard play style, 26 i explained and over explained and overexplained without being even prompted, same for defense, a review of my games would show this is actually a null tell since i have even used it as scum.
Forgive the lack of quotes but im about to go lay down, im really feeling exhausted for some reason...
The whole thing for me felt like one big word twist, he started by pretending to answer the question, turned it into "but why simply unvote when i can also give a treatise?", followed that with a refutal of my understanding (this in itself a valid point now that i reconsider), but followed by redirecting with questions towards me.
Thats why i said it was word twisting, and deflection.
OK im out for a while im not feeling to well.
From Hell's Kitchen, I remember him being quite verbose and not clear in his communication: quite a 'stream of conciousness' approach. I also recall that he made quasi-philosophical statements - like his "The words do not betray themselves, as words are just words. If you meant to say my words betray me, then you probably should have said that instead" in #171.
Concur.
Happy with Sepiriel's last post too.
Because if it's a negative i would rather have it laid out so i can defend myself right now while im still on a somewhat lucid mindset.
Patience grasshopper. I'm trying to finish my exchange with Arcadic before putting my suspicions out there.