okay so that was too thought out to be a drunken post and yet too insistent on an unpopular/terrible plan to be scum. So I guess zionite simply lacks the part of the brain that forms logic, dude zionite that sucks I hope they find a cure soon.
Flame infraction. I'm sure you can find a way to formulate your points that doesn't require you to insult the other players' mental faculties.
okay so that was too thought out to be a drunken post and yet too insistent on an unpopular/terrible plan to be scum. So I guess zionite simply lacks the part of the brain that forms logic, dude zionite that sucks I hope they find a cure soon.
This reeks of a scum post. Assumes again I endorse the idea as correct play, ad hom attacks, mudslinging a logical idea.
okay so that was too thought out to be a drunken post and yet too insistent on an unpopular/terrible plan to be scum. So I guess zionite simply lacks the part of the brain that forms logic, dude zionite that sucks I hope they find a cure soon.
Oh, the irony of it all.
Interestingly, I'm inclined to agree with Zionite. Particularly, the last line feels like a scum statement.
Zionite's suggestion was good. Not thought out, is incorrect.
21 players is what 6 scum tops? Maybe a neutral or 2. Leaving us as 13 town. And by the rules is the roleblock threshold. So the only way the plan doesnt work is that a townie starts at lower than 1 starting level -OR- you go against the town plan.
As to the full powered scum notion. What powers are they going to block? What are they going to redirect? The only fear is a power thief. We reduce a complex game to a simple game, not a problem.
Lastly the idea generated a lot of convo, that is good.
The quick zionite wagon definitively had a scum, I'm trying to decide who it was.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
We are expected to trust everyone to go to the same zone.
That is stupid.
This entire game revolves around different levels of trust.
I'm not impressed with you, either. Everything everyone's said is spot-on.
Regarding Zionite's idea: It's pretty obvious that any powerful town PRs could just not go to the specified area. That way, the majority of the players will be blocked, but any investigative/vig roles will still be used for the town.
I mean, obviously some, if not all, scum aren't going to play along, either. Anyone that thinks they will is naive.
Regarding Zionite's idea: It's pretty obvious that any powerful town PRs could just not go to the specified area. That way, the majority of the players will be blocked, but any investigative/vig roles will still be used for the town.
I mean, obviously some, if not all, scum aren't going to play along, either. Anyone that thinks they will is naive.
The plan is to get everyone who has no abilties/ poor abilities to go into a zone and everyone important to go out of the zone. Accomplishing what? The scum aren't locked in anywhere. Maybe we have a location tracker, who maybe manages to target a scum outside of the location. Scum claims an important role as a reason for not being in the location. Or maybe the location tracker targets a townie outside of the location and outs an important power role.
Also only putting underpowered roles in a location means it might not even be locked up.
I really don't get this plan. What does it all accomplish?
Well, in a vacuum, all of the town(except the location tracker) would go to that location, and the scum couldn't consider the possibility of said location tracker, and said location tracker might get lucky and find a scum.
It was never a great plan. But now that it has been publicly discussed to death, it is completely pointless.
Well, in a vacuum, all of the town(except the location tracker) would go to that location, and the scum couldn't consider the possibility of said location tracker, and said location tracker might get lucky and find a scum.
It was never a great plan. But now that it has been publicly discussed to death, it is completely pointless.
How would the tracker know that it was scum and not one of the "important" town Power Roles
Interestingly, I'm inclined to agree with Zionite. Particularly, the last line feels like a scum statement.
Though I still like Shalako better as scum.
Personally, I can't imagine scum posting something so completely bad, even considering poggy's way of talking so far.
Quote from MH »
I'm not impressed with you, either. Everything everyone's said is spot-on.
What's "everything" and who's "everyone"? This just sounds like a soft push to me. Tone feels like an "offhand" tone.
Plans which rely on some people to "get" it never works. Either it's too obvious and everyone gets it in which case it's the same as saying it out loud (and in which case it's better just to say it out loud so we have discussion) or it's too subtle and not enough people get it.
Either way it's pointless now as it's basically out in the open.
Shalako just seems sort of airheaded to me. Didn't really read TF2 closely after I replaced out so no judgment on his behaviour as of now. I'll take a gander again tomorrow since it seems like he's not sitting right with quite a few people.
Actually, I think it might be a better plan to pick out our scummiest players, then make them all go to the zone, making sure, of course, that their power's will be enough to RB them. Sure, if a scum is in there, they could sneak out, but then hopefully our Location Tracker catches them. Considering there will likely be just 4-6 people in there, I doubt the scum would take that risk.
So I guess I might just be terrible at this game but please for the love of god explain to me how the hell roleblocking the entire goddamn town was EVER a good plan. Unless you are suggesting that atlseal made a game with 10 town compulsive vigs(or some other antitown town role) you seriously need to think about this roleblock plan because last I checked town roles HELP the town.
As a side note, the all but investigative roleblock isnt terrible but as said before most town roles that I've seen are pretty protown
And anyone who says that I'm scum for calling this plan 100% retarded is invited to pull their head out of their ass
Actually, I think it might be a better plan to pick out our scummiest players, then make them all go to the zone, making sure, of course, that their power's will be enough to RB them. Sure, if a scum is in there, they could sneak out, but then hopefully our Location Tracker catches them. Considering there will likely be just 4-6 people in there, I doubt the scum would take that risk.
Another great idea. +1 for Gigas, effectively making him Gigas1.
I said I've skimmed. Need to read through. It would be bad to just place the vote if I've missed something.
Yeah, I realize you've skimmed. My problem is that you believe someone to be the correct lynch (which is way stronger than a mere vote), yet you don't feel you've read closely enough to make said vote.
@Zionite:
1) I like your analysis, but you rely on the assertion that a mass roleblock, is, in fact, in the best interests of the town and that everyone agrees with you. I'm not so sure that this is clear-cut (see below).
2) I agree with you about simplifying the game. That is certainly a benefit of a mass-roleblock. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to tell how useful this is though, because we don't know how strongly the location mechanic is going to affect the way the game plays out.
3) Most mafia pointing theory suggests that with purely vanilla townies and vanilla mafia the mafia should win a significant majority of the time. This is the drawback to a mass RB, unless the kill can be roleblocked too.
Now, perhaps I do not fully understand the pros/cons of a mass RB but it seems to me that in order for it to be worthwhile the benefits gained from simplifying the setup and the chances of the kill being blockable have to outweigh the loss from effectively putting ourselves at a disadvantage role-wise. So it seems like your assertion is definitely debatable and depends a fair amount on the specifics of the setup.
Actually, I think it might be a better plan to pick out our scummiest players, then make them all go to the zone, making sure, of course, that their power's will be enough to RB them. Sure, if a scum is in there, they could sneak out, but then hopefully our Location Tracker catches them. Considering there will likely be just 4-6 people in there, I doubt the scum would take that risk.
So I guess I might just be terrible at this game but please for the love of god explain to me how the hell roleblocking the entire goddamn town was EVER a good plan. Unless you are suggesting that atlseal made a game with 10 town compulsive vigs(or some other antitown town role) you seriously need to think about this roleblock plan because last I checked town roles HELP the town.
As a side note, the all but investigative roleblock isnt terrible but as said before most town roles that I've seen are pretty protown
And anyone who says that I'm scum for calling this plan 100% retarded is invited to pull their head out of their ass
Shalako is not scum, I have played every game of mafia on this forum when him, and I am 99% sure he is town. He does not like the idea, I do not either. We do not know what happens, if atlseal will reveal what zones we went to, so I only suggest putting this plan on hold until we see how a night in the zone works.
Shalako is not scum, I have played every game of mafia on this forum when him, and I am 99% sure he is town. He does not like the idea, I do not either. We do not know what happens, if atlseal will reveal what zones we went to, so I only suggest putting this plan on hold until we see how a night in the zone works.
It works as the rules say it works.
You obviously have other reasons for wanting at least one night to go unobstructed, which is the real matter at hand.
You obviously have other reasons for wanting at least one night to go unobstructed, which is the real matter at hand.
Yes I do. I want to see exactly what happens, I do not trust everyone to do what their told (least of all, the scum), and I believe even in a 14-6 split (I will assume one neutral), the town has more PRs than the scum, so I see this benefiting the town more. Whether you agree or disagree is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that I do no think the plan benefits the town.
@AI: What caused you to change your mind on tordeck, and drop your insistence that he respond to Syrenz? Personally, I think Syrenz's point is extremely valid and I would like to see tordeck answer it.
While I get what this post is about, it is not acceptable that tordeck ignored my point (after you directly asked him to respond) and is not something that we should ignore. All he did was respond to your accusations of him being lazy while ignoring the other stuff in your post. I believe this is called strawmanning.
I've seen enough to placate me, but I agree that it would be good for tordeck to address Syrenz's post, much in the way that Brussels sprouts are good for one's health but leave a bitter taste in one's mouth. (I suspect that tordeck already gave all the response he was intending to give.)
Then "safe" zones aren't really very safe. If you reveal which location will be safe, it implies that it is good for everyone to go there and then since there is some cap apparently and so many people are likely to go there, it's likely that there will be blocks. Unless you know the specific number is safe enough for this.
Or maybe we can have all the "non-vital" roles go to the "safe" zone and the "vital" roles like cop can choose zones for themselves.
The specific number is between 20 and 30, inclusive.
Gigas1's plan suffers from the same problem as Zionite's plan: The scum have no reason to go along with it. It is unlikely that a location-tracker, if we even have one, will successfully target a scum who spends the Night somewhere he or she doesn't belong out of a mixed group of town and scum sent to the zone (assuming all the town stay put and only one or two scum with relevant abilities jump ship). And if the scum elect to follow along, we just arbitrarily locked out a group of players without stopping the scum NK because the scum will just have someone who isn't locked down perform the kill. We're better off focusing our energies elsewhere.
Such as voting Shalako.
EWP@The Ice King: You should probably elaborate as to why you don't think Shalako is scum. My only experience with him is from modding Basic #29, which you were also in. I see similarly scummy play here.
For those of you keeping score at home, poggy has come up with 2 ad hom attacks in the span of 61 minutes. That's out there even for a player like Seppel.
Shalako is looking like he may be been scum but Poggydude is a much better lynch today IMO. Time will tell.
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EBWODP: knowing that the safety threshold jumps that high makes me think that we could have a lot of abilities go off in that area without crossing the threshold.
Also, AI: were you joking when you said you need Zionite alive at the end to win, and if not what is the nature of the "relationship"?
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Gigas1's plan suffers from the same problem as Zionite's plan: The scum have no reason to go along with it. It is unlikely that a location-tracker, if we even have one, will successfully target a scum who spends the Night somewhere he or she doesn't belong out of a mixed group of town and scum sent to the zone (assuming all the town stay put and only one or two scum with relevant abilities jump ship). And if the scum elect to follow along, we just arbitrarily locked out a group of players without stopping the scum NK because the scum will just have someone who isn't locked down perform the kill. We're better off focusing our energies elsewhere.
I'm pretty sure we have a location tracker, or an ability that functions similarly. And the scum would be taking a decent size risk by not going along with the plan, 25% chance of getting caught from the location guy. True, it wouldn't lock out their kill, but it would lock out whatever role that person had. We could be blocking out some sort of double kill, or a doctor that would have saved them from a vig shot or something.
I don't like how Shalako's been bringing up barely-relevant quotes from another game, rather than respond to what's been brought against him. Granted, that's not entirely clear, but the fact that he's scouring a DIFFERENT game for anything that could be applied to his current scenario rather than respond to his accusers are giving me red flags.
EBWODP: knowing that the safety threshold jumps that high makes me think that we could have a lot of abilities go off in that area without crossing the threshold.
Indeed. My ability has a moderate cost, though.
An interesting thing to note: As the game drags on and players die the zones will become less populated and it will be less likely that magic will be blocked in any given zone.
I've been thinking about whether game mechanics other than magic-blocking are related to the location mechanic. I'm thinking that there has to be something, but I am loathe to publicly speculate at this juncture.
I'm pretty sure we have a location tracker, or an ability that functions similarly. And the scum would be taking a decent size risk by not going along with the plan, 25% chance of getting caught from the location guy. True, it wouldn't lock out their kill, but it would lock out whatever role that person had. We could be blocking out some sort of double kill, or a doctor that would have saved them from a vig shot or something.
Assuming we lock out some townies and one or two scum doing this, we guarantee that those townies can't use their roles and merely hope that the scum don't, with the possibility of a location-tracker being the only thing potentially keeping the scum honest. I don't like this plan's reward-to-discussion ratio nor the loss in town power that we would be forcing upon ourselves.
I don't like how Shalako's been bringing up barely-relevant quotes from another game, rather than respond to what's been brought against him. Granted, that's not entirely clear, but the fact that he's scouring a DIFFERENT game for anything that could be applied to his current scenario rather than respond to his accusers are giving me red flags.
I believe Shalako is the correct lynch. Skimmed through, need to take the time to read through. Will do that this week end and then will ploace a vote.
Actually, when I look back over Zionite's post, it makes no mention of or insinuation about the mafia nightkill. He only says that the lockdown will "vanillafy all roles" - vanilla scum can still kill (most of the time.) So that makes Shalako look worse for bringing the night kill up and trying to make it look as though Zionite were the one with the inside info.
unvote; vote Shalako
Not a whole lot of solid evidence there.
There you go Gigas.
Cyan: I would think it would refer to the magic increase that is assigned to each ability. Think of it like the costs for planeswalker abilities.
FoS desCoures for the not so subtle
Shalako might be worth looking into but I'm a bit more confident in poggy ATM.
Riddle me this: if you acknowledge that poggydude is scummy, and in fact appear to think that he is 'the right lynch today', what exactly is wrong with me questioning him as to why he thinks this is the case?
For that matter... why do you think there's nothing wrong with poggydude's statement?
Maybe I can word this more plainly.
We almost certainly have a cop and a doc variant, it being a large game. We do not want these roles, among others, to be blocked if we can help it (especially the cop). Therefore it is in our best interests to ensure that the cop isn't blocked without making it too obvious to the scum who the cop is.
Thoughts on players choosing their own zones but me publicly announcing my choice of zone to make safer?
#101: dC, why do you think some of the scum would get blocked in an anonymous game? Don't you think spreading the town out would get more scum roleblocked?
I don't think I understand what you're asking here. What relevance does that even have to the +X softclaim idea?
Also, I meant that if the scum wish to use +X information to 'overload' a zone and roleblock someone, they have to essentially sacrifice some of their abilities for that night.
Yes I do. I want to see exactly what happens, I do not trust everyone to do what their told (least of all, the scum), and I believe even in a 14-6 split (I will assume one neutral), the town has more PRs than the scum, so I see this benefiting the town more. Whether you agree or disagree is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that I do no think the plan benefits the town.
So there are 5 mafia?
---------------------------
I can get behind a poggydude or Charm_Master wagon right now. Possibly Shalako as well; the constant sarcasm and victim complex self-meta feels off to me.
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[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Flame infraction. I'm sure you can find a way to formulate your points that doesn't require you to insult the other players' mental faculties.
It's not a stretch to say the scum have magic abilities too.
This reeks of a scum post. Assumes again I endorse the idea as correct play, ad hom attacks, mudslinging a logical idea.
Oh, the irony of it all.
Interestingly, I'm inclined to agree with Zionite. Particularly, the last line feels like a scum statement.
Though I still like Shalako better as scum.
Not to mention he is still refusing to answer Syrenz.
@ EP: Because his own vote was pretty opportunistic.
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We even have Mafia!!
We are expected to trust everyone to go to the same zone.
That is stupid.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
21 players is what 6 scum tops? Maybe a neutral or 2. Leaving us as 13 town. And by the rules is the roleblock threshold. So the only way the plan doesnt work is that a townie starts at lower than 1 starting level -OR- you go against the town plan.
As to the full powered scum notion. What powers are they going to block? What are they going to redirect? The only fear is a power thief. We reduce a complex game to a simple game, not a problem.
Lastly the idea generated a lot of convo, that is good.
The quick zionite wagon definitively had a scum, I'm trying to decide who it was.
12-11? I'm losing track
What makes you think that the scum will go to the zone.
Hence it will be Full Powered Scum vs. V.T.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
What makes you think people who don't go to the zone won't be held accountable?
It's a big game, a location-finder is likely.
To BAD HE WILL BE ROLEBLOCKED.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
This entire game revolves around different levels of trust.
I'm not impressed with you, either. Everything everyone's said is spot-on.
Regarding Zionite's idea: It's pretty obvious that any powerful town PRs could just not go to the specified area. That way, the majority of the players will be blocked, but any investigative/vig roles will still be used for the town.
I mean, obviously some, if not all, scum aren't going to play along, either. Anyone that thinks they will is naive.
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But the location finder would have blocked himself wouldn't he.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Too.
Unvote
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
See:
Can we just lynch Shalako now?
FFS.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Out of interest what is the case against me?
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
@Shalako: That you've acted like newb scum.
So just like Library mafia.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Also only putting underpowered roles in a location means it might not even be locked up.
I really don't get this plan. What does it all accomplish?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
More or less sums it up.
Got a wagon similar to this one ran up on me was town.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
It was never a great plan. But now that it has been publicly discussed to death, it is completely pointless.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
How would the tracker know that it was scum and not one of the "important" town Power Roles
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Personally, I can't imagine scum posting something so completely bad, even considering poggy's way of talking so far.
Plans which rely on some people to "get" it never works. Either it's too obvious and everyone gets it in which case it's the same as saying it out loud (and in which case it's better just to say it out loud so we have discussion) or it's too subtle and not enough people get it.
Either way it's pointless now as it's basically out in the open.
Shalako just seems sort of airheaded to me. Didn't really read TF2 closely after I replaced out so no judgment on his behaviour as of now. I'll take a gander again tomorrow since it seems like he's not sitting right with quite a few people.
.
Ah.
I was thinking of Manders Post.
The one that ZIonite Said was the plan.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
As a side note, the all but investigative roleblock isnt terrible but as said before most town roles that I've seen are pretty protown
And anyone who says that I'm scum for calling this plan 100% retarded is invited to pull their head out of their ass
Another great idea. +1 for Gigas, effectively making him Gigas1.
Yeah, I realize you've skimmed. My problem is that you believe someone to be the correct lynch (which is way stronger than a mere vote), yet you don't feel you've read closely enough to make said vote.
@Zionite:
1) I like your analysis, but you rely on the assertion that a mass roleblock, is, in fact, in the best interests of the town and that everyone agrees with you. I'm not so sure that this is clear-cut (see below).
2) I agree with you about simplifying the game. That is certainly a benefit of a mass-roleblock. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to tell how useful this is though, because we don't know how strongly the location mechanic is going to affect the way the game plays out.
3) Most mafia pointing theory suggests that with purely vanilla townies and vanilla mafia the mafia should win a significant majority of the time. This is the drawback to a mass RB, unless the kill can be roleblocked too.
Now, perhaps I do not fully understand the pros/cons of a mass RB but it seems to me that in order for it to be worthwhile the benefits gained from simplifying the setup and the chances of the kill being blockable have to outweigh the loss from effectively putting ourselves at a disadvantage role-wise. So it seems like your assertion is definitely debatable and depends a fair amount on the specifics of the setup.
Better plan.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Shalako is not scum, I have played every game of mafia on this forum when him, and I am 99% sure he is town. He does not like the idea, I do not either. We do not know what happens, if atlseal will reveal what zones we went to, so I only suggest putting this plan on hold until we see how a night in the zone works.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It works as the rules say it works.
You obviously have other reasons for wanting at least one night to go unobstructed, which is the real matter at hand.
Yes I do. I want to see exactly what happens, I do not trust everyone to do what their told (least of all, the scum), and I believe even in a 14-6 split (I will assume one neutral), the town has more PRs than the scum, so I see this benefiting the town more. Whether you agree or disagree is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that I do no think the plan benefits the town.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I've seen enough to placate me, but I agree that it would be good for tordeck to address Syrenz's post, much in the way that Brussels sprouts are good for one's health but leave a bitter taste in one's mouth. (I suspect that tordeck already gave all the response he was intending to give.)
Or maybe we can have all the "non-vital" roles go to the "safe" zone and the "vital" roles like cop can choose zones for themselves.
The specific number is between 20 and 30, inclusive.
Gigas1's plan suffers from the same problem as Zionite's plan: The scum have no reason to go along with it. It is unlikely that a location-tracker, if we even have one, will successfully target a scum who spends the Night somewhere he or she doesn't belong out of a mixed group of town and scum sent to the zone (assuming all the town stay put and only one or two scum with relevant abilities jump ship). And if the scum elect to follow along, we just arbitrarily locked out a group of players without stopping the scum NK because the scum will just have someone who isn't locked down perform the kill. We're better off focusing our energies elsewhere.
Such as voting Shalako.
EWP@The Ice King: You should probably elaborate as to why you don't think Shalako is scum. My only experience with him is from modding Basic #29, which you were also in. I see similarly scummy play here.
Shalako is looking like he may be been scum but Poggydude is a much better lynch today IMO. Time will tell.
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[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Also, AI: were you joking when you said you need Zionite alive at the end to win, and if not what is the nature of the "relationship"?
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@ rest of stuff going, its late, ive skimmed but there is a lot to look over, back with more later
The Family
I'm pretty sure we have a location tracker, or an ability that functions similarly. And the scum would be taking a decent size risk by not going along with the plan, 25% chance of getting caught from the location guy. True, it wouldn't lock out their kill, but it would lock out whatever role that person had. We could be blocking out some sort of double kill, or a doctor that would have saved them from a vig shot or something.
I don't like how Shalako's been bringing up barely-relevant quotes from another game, rather than respond to what's been brought against him. Granted, that's not entirely clear, but the fact that he's scouring a DIFFERENT game for anything that could be applied to his current scenario rather than respond to his accusers are giving me red flags.
If you look at the thread the only person who provided a reason that I could respond to was Zin.
I did.
I cleared the issue that I thought when Zionite said All roles I thought he could have Meant Scum Night Kill.
He did not.
WShalako
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Indeed. My ability has a moderate cost, though.
An interesting thing to note: As the game drags on and players die the zones will become less populated and it will be less likely that magic will be blocked in any given zone.
I've been thinking about whether game mechanics other than magic-blocking are related to the location mechanic. I'm thinking that there has to be something, but I am loathe to publicly speculate at this juncture.
This.
Called it.
Assuming we lock out some townies and one or two scum doing this, we guarantee that those townies can't use their roles and merely hope that the scum don't, with the possibility of a location-tracker being the only thing potentially keeping the scum honest. I don't like this plan's reward-to-discussion ratio nor the loss in town power that we would be forcing upon ourselves.
All well and good. Why aren't you voting him?
Not a whole lot of solid evidence there.
There you go Gigas.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Man Mafia is fun
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Interesting.
@Charm_Master
Riddle me this: if you acknowledge that poggydude is scummy, and in fact appear to think that he is 'the right lynch today', what exactly is wrong with me questioning him as to why he thinks this is the case?
For that matter... why do you think there's nothing wrong with poggydude's statement?
@AsianInvasion
I can get behind this idea.
@TheIceMan
....so your only and surprisingly strident excuse for poggydude's play is that he's a bad player?
@Jscolton
Such confidence that so many people are town!
So who do you think is scum?
@Emo_Pinata
I don't think I understand what you're asking here. What relevance does that even have to the +X softclaim idea?
Also, I meant that if the scum wish to use +X information to 'overload' a zone and roleblock someone, they have to essentially sacrifice some of their abilities for that night.
Counterpoint 1: it's a sample PM. That's it.
Counterpoint 2: That's not what poggydude said was his alleged reasoning.
@The Ice King
So there are 5 mafia?
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I can get behind a poggydude or Charm_Master wagon right now. Possibly Shalako as well; the constant sarcasm and victim complex self-meta feels off to me.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.