I can get behind a poggydude or Charm_Master wagon right now. Possibly Shalako as well; the constant sarcasm and victim complex self-meta feels off to me.
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Not sure, the only thing I remember is the rule of ~25%, so with 21 people would be somewhere around 5-6, depending on the PRs of the town/nuetral characters. My point was that in the what I believe to be the minimum number of townies, we would have more PRs than the scum, therefore a Roleblock would be worse for us AND the scum don't have to go to the area. Just seems bad in my opinion.
@AI:
I have played with shalako in basic 29 (as you said) basic 28, Bastard Mafia, Basic 31, and now this one. He was scum in 29 and 31, and I have been silently stalking TF2 (a game I was not in, but shalako was scum). I am confidant that he is just being shalako, and that he is town in this game. His replies may be annoying, but he is not scum.
@Cyan: What is your read on Poggy about now? I get an impression that he is trying to be seemingly raging/emotional town with this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by poggydude So I guess I might just be terrible at this game but please for the love of god explain to me how the hell roleblocking the entire goddamn town was EVER a good plan. Unless you are suggesting that atlseal made a game with 10 town compulsive vigs(or some other antitown town role) you seriously need to think about this roleblock plan because last I checked town roles HELP the town.
As a side note, the all but investigative roleblock isnt terrible but as said before most town roles that I've seen are pretty protown
And anyone who says that I'm scum for calling this plan 100% retarded is invited to pull their head out of their ass
@Gigas idea: I don't like...basing a plan off a role that...'most likely' to exist in...such a setup. And also assuming...such role is town.
I am in favour of...Magic Modifier (+X) soft claim that...Zionite proposed.
If we are to...mass role block a better plan would...be to spread everyone so as to...try and assure blocks occur. Specifically having...everyone use their ability to force it to...hit threshold. This way even...if scum don't go to the...planned zone we still...can intiate lockdown. Magic Modifier claim would...go a long ways toward...working on such a mass block...plan. If Magic Modifier is...cumulative, people could...turn themselves into area role blockers...as well. It would just take...some time.
I am liking the postings...of Zionite, desCourse, Emo_Pinata, Syrenz
I am not liking the postings...of Charm_Master, Poggydude
I am... intrigued at The Ice Man.
I am... intrigued at AsianInvasion.
I am... intrigued at Infinis.
I am... indifferent at Shakalaco.
Who wishes to come...with me to area 4...tonight?
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@Gigas idea: I don't like...basing a plan off a role that...'most likely' to exist in...such a setup. And also assuming...such role is town.
I am in favour of...Magic Modifier (+X) soft claim that...Zionite proposed.
Except the problem with a soft claim of that latitude is that the odds are PRs will probably not be 1:
3. Unless otherwise noted, all players have a base power level of 1 that is changed each night by the modifiers of any abilities they use. For example, Billy has a power that is +4: Do X. If Billy chooses to use his power N1, but not N2, his power level is 5 on N1 and 1 on N2.
If we are to...mass role block a better plan would...be to spread everyone so as to...try and assure blocks occur. Specifically having...everyone use their ability to force it to...
And how would everyone know where to spread out? They wouldn't. For all we know, all X or whatever number of PRs might go into the same 1-2 areas, while the scum hide somewhere else...
Except the problem with a soft claim of that latitude is that the odds are PRs will probably not be 1:
And how would everyone know where to spread out? They wouldn't. For all we know, all X or whatever number of PRs might go into the same 1-2 areas, while the scum hide somewhere else...
With...claimed +X we can...spread people out accordingly so as...to have the lockdown initated. It, of...course, runs with the assumption...that only scum would try to...move around. If scum...do move around, then abilities...will not get wasted...regardless. And we...will know. The reason it's a plan...is because it uses... some coordination.
I doubt...just going off the...number will tip the hand...of what role a person...has. That is, atleast, my belief.
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Assuming we lock out some townies and one or two scum doing this, we guarantee that those townies can't use their roles and merely hope that the scum don't, with the possibility of a location-tracker being the only thing potentially keeping the scum honest. I don't like this plan's reward-to-discussion ratio nor the loss in town power that we would be forcing upon ourselves.
What if I told you that I can tell the level of magic power in an area, if given a rough approximation?
All well and good. Why aren't you voting him?
I wanted to see his response. I'm still a bit up in the air with him.
Shalako, if you don't really know what the case against you is, then I would suggest perhaps asking. Or, you know, ignoring it, since generally it takes a few more than 4 votes to get a lynch. But I'm pretty sure that saying "Oh hey, I found some interesting quotes from this other game I was in. Do you still think I'm scum?" is the wrong way to go about it.
I'm not moving my vote off Shalako. His response to pressure has been to go, "oh, this is exactly how I got pressured in this other game where I was town." Yeah, I just tried that defense as scum and it didn't go too well for me either. Furthermore, the pressure in the two games isn't even analogous and bringing in a lot of out-of-context quotes from a basic that I imagine many of us have not read does nothing for me.
poggy and jordman have a lot of similarities, but I guess poggy was active while ~V~ was, meaning jordman would've had to have had (would've had to have had - my grammar crits you for over 9000) the foresight to create two gimmicks and run them concurrently, so in reality he probably isn't.
I've thought the plans over and I think the risk of some would-be mavericks deciding they know better and their role is "more important" (see bateleur in CCMIV) then contravening the plan, then getting tracked by townies on the prowl for mafia operating outside the boundaries of the plan, and finally getting mislynched is too much. There are a number of players in this game who I simply don't trust to go along with any comprehensive plan.
I have played with shalako in basic 29 (as you said) basic 28, Bastard Mafia, Basic 31, and now this one. He was scum in 29 and 31, and I have been silently stalking TF2 (a game I was not in, but shalako was scum). I am confidant that he is just being shalako, and that he is town in this game. His replies may be annoying, but he is not scum.
You should be more specific. What qualitative differences exist between his town and scum play in your opinion, and how do these compare to his play here?
I am in favour of...Magic Modifier (+X) soft claim that...Zionite proposed.
If we are to...mass role block a better plan would...be to spread everyone so as to...try and assure blocks occur. Specifically having...everyone use their ability to force it to...hit threshold. This way even...if scum don't go to the...planned zone we still...can intiate lockdown. Magic Modifier claim would...go a long ways toward...working on such a mass block...plan. If Magic Modifier is...cumulative, people could...turn themselves into area role blockers...as well. It would just take...some time.
I thought I first proposed that claim? Regardless, people weren't too enthused about the idea the first time around. It could work in the early game, especially since the scum will likely tell the truth (or risk getting caught), but like I said, later on this will become impossible due to the number of players decreasing (unless, of course, the moderator has designs to compensate for this shrinking of the population).
What if I told you that I can tell the level of magic power in an area, if given a rough approximation?
I would ask you what you mean by "if given a rough approximation" and ask you how this ability, paired with your stated plan, helps catch scum when we have no way of knowing which player/s caused the discrepancy in total magic level.
Zionite is the only one of those 3 I'm leaning town on. His plan was pretty bad but I'm getting a town feeling from him. I said that Tordeck's response seems genuine, but didn't mention a thing about his alignment. Just because they have a genuine response doesn't make them town. A scum could mistake the lynch threshold just as easily as a townie. I specifically said I was fencesitting on Manders. So obviously I'm not confident she's town.
I'm not sure where you saw all this confidence, but maybe you just misread my post.
As for your question. At the moment, the scummiest player is Poggy, followed closely by Shalako.
Riddle me this: if you acknowledge that poggydude is scummy, and in fact appear to think that he is 'the right lynch today', what exactly is wrong with me questioning him as to why he thinks this is the case?
For that matter... why do you think there's nothing wrong with poggydude's statement?
For reference, here is the associated quote from poggy:
If you guys are willing to vouch for zionite's ability to be this thoughtless...unvote
my problem with +X softclaim-if there are vanillas or people with no +X abilities we could out them/make their claim awkward but that's just me, it also doesnt seem super useful
My problem with you was that you weren't questioning him - you were angling to get information out of him by twisting his words (granted you didn't have to twist much further, but still...)
As for the statement itself, I happen to agree - outing vanilla townies is bad for the town in general because it lets the scum focus on the power roles, which they can identify through PoE.
As an aside, keifru's posting is...weird. As if he's under a captain Kirk like PR where he has to take lots of pauses in random places.
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What if I told you that I can tell the level of magic power in an area, if given a rough approximation?
Interesting, how rough?
Shalako, if you don't really know what the case against you is, then I would suggest perhaps asking.
I did ask.
It was because I look like noob scum./lame
r, you know, ignoring it, since generally it takes a few more than 4 votes to get a lynch. But I'm pretty sure that saying "Oh hey, I found some interesting quotes from this other game I was in. Do you still think I'm scum?" is the wrong way to go about it.
Really, that's what you can come up with here? He didn't use ellipses in any other game? How can you even possibly think that would be relevant to anything to begin with?
I didn't propose the "claim +X" softclaim, I believe AI did. I'm indifferent on the idea. On one hand it could give scum a place to look for town power roles, but on the other hand we still won't know what those powers are and it will lock people into place for claiming which is usually a good thing. I don't mind claiming mine, but I don't want to force others who say it's a bad idea.
Shalako is not scum, I have played every game of mafia on this forum when him, and I am 99% sure he is town. He does not like the idea, I do not either. We do not know what happens, if atlseal will reveal what zones we went to, so I only suggest putting this plan on hold until we see how a night in the zone works.
It disturbs me that you feel this confident about him. What are the discrepancies between Shalako's town and scum play?
@ pussinboots - read my response to AI, it fits u as well.
Your response to AI "I am not lazy". My question to you "Why did you not say something like 'claim range' or imply that it was time for Poggy to claim if you thought he was at claim range? Why did you only say 'I find Poggy suspect' and nothing else?
How exactly does your response to AI connect to my question?
I have played with shalako in basic 29 (as you said) basic 28, Bastard Mafia, Basic 31, and now this one. He was scum in 29 and 31, and I have been silently stalking TF2 (a game I was not in, but shalako was scum). I am confidant that he is just being shalako, and that he is town in this game. His replies may be annoying, but he is not scum.
Elaborate. What is town Shalako and what is scum Shalako?
Really, that's what you can come up with here? He didn't use ellipses in any other game? How can you even possibly think that would be relevant to anything to begin with?
I don't see anything wrong with what Shalako said. No clue what you're getting at here.
He is posting style of silliness is pretty much the same as Bastard Mafia, but this time, he isn't doing his whole "gun nut" gambit, so that strikes me as town who learned how to act differently, while still being shalako.
The rest of it is mainly gut feeling. I mean, I daresay out of any of you, I have been in more games with shalako, so I have been starting to get a feel of how he acts, and I am feeling like he is town right now, but later in the game, I will be able to prove that more concretely, but only if shalako "sobers" up earlier than he usually does.
I would ask you what you mean by "if given a rough approximation" and ask you how this ability, paired with your stated plan, helps catch scum when we have no way of knowing which player/s caused the discrepancy in total magic level.
I'd rather not say until we decide who's going to be there, and their power levels. But, I could figure out the power level of the zone to within about 3 or 4.
@ mmod: Sorry it took so long, but as I said, re-reading's a pain, and I can't quote them all.
Oh, and some of these are posts I noticed that no one mentioned and some are after I made my statement. I decided to include it all.
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#27: Fishing on poggy's "claim."
#61: zinda- points out Zi didn't say anything about mafia NK & Shalako looks bad for bringing it up.
Relatedly, I'm not liking Cyan. In re-reading, I noticed he got on the Shalako wagon (in the same post where he still says I'm scum) because "you guys may be on to something". Since then, he's called for more votes, provided a vague reason when asked why Shalako's scum, and nit-picked Shalako for his response re: Keifru. IGMEOY
@ Keifru- if you can, please stop with the posting style. I find it quite annoying when reading since my brain automatically takes the breaks you're including.
@EP: Saw I forgot to answer your other question. I meant to say everything I did re: poggy in the post that I said I forgot to unvote, vote poggy. I just plain forgot to mention him.
@zindabad: Do the titles of your posts have any relevance?
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Ok, poggydude.
#62 & 63- You say you can see Zionite making a suggestion like that as town & unvote.
#81- You re-vote after Zionite explains further and jump to a meta defense for why you waited to initially vote.
#84- You ask us if Zionite is known for suggesting really dumb ideas.
Why did you unvote in the first place for the reason you stated if you had to ask us if he was known for this?
In other words, what's the real reason you unvoted?
#124- So, if you were "mulling it over", why didn't you at least FoS?
#180- The town's greatest weapon is and always has been the lynch. Mass RB won't stop that, so town wouldn't be defenseless.
In fact, if it wasn't so anonymous, I would fully support Zi's suggestion. Day= town kill
Night = scum kill
So, as long as we didn't mislynch a lot, town would definitely win in a few days.
pretty sure final night of ghs sucked balls for you
True, cop investigations help. However, that was close to being good for us, if Malcolm had lived up to his threat to kill you. Or AI had believed that he did. However, I'll link you to a game that WAS better for the scum than the town. Let's see... It's hard to find one, only 90% of the games here are. Ah, here's one: Basic #29. Here's another: Annorax's. Do I need more? In case I do: Goo. If you still need more, you completely miss the point.
I am pretty sure that you are severely missing the point. The entire town will not be helped by a mass RB. Scum will still get their night kill. If you really believe 5 vanilla mafia versus 17 vanilla town favors the town you are absolutely nuts.
Also bastard mod is a bastard mod game not exactly good evidence
Poggy, stop with the ad hom attacks or I will go to Arim about this. None of us give a crap what you think about other players, and insulting them does nothing but show how little you actually care about the game at hand. I'm actually kind of praying you get nk'd or vigged tonight, because your constant flailing forces everyone to pay attention to you and let's the scum lurk without anyone noticing. It's the same reason I call for seppel to be vig'd every game - his presense hurts the town, regardless of his alignment.
And for the record, in a 17 town/5 scum vanilla game, the town can mislynch 3 times and still win. Depending on when scum hang, it's possible to afford a 4th mislynch. A town that makes 4 mislynches has no place winning the game anyway. So if you are going to go off on a tangent like that, it helps to check your math first
Tl;dr please shut up and/or kill yourself.
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My internet has been up and down recently, but I'm planning to reread Shalako when I get the time. His obnoxious attitude seems similar to TF2 where he was scum.
I am pretty sure that you are severely missing the point. The entire town will not be helped by a mass RB. Scum will still get their night kill. If you really believe 5 vanilla mafia versus 17 vanilla town favors the town you are absolutely nuts.
Also bastard mod is a bastard mod game not exactly good evidence
Yeah, 17 town vs. 5 mafia sounds pretty good. The point of a mass RB is obviously not to help the town; it's to hurt the scum.
no ad hom attack/ go kill yourself kk dude whatever(protip if you want me to listen to you don't contradict yourself)
I have already been infracted and have therefore toned down the language, i havent directly attacked anyone's intelligence I am currently attacking this terrible plan with ever fiber of my being
Also check my math? As far as I've seen you haven't presented any and while I'm decent at math i have hit a bit of a roadblock on this one due to the plethora of cases. Anyone who would be willing to run a 5v17 town odds i would greatly appreciate it
How does shutting off all docs and cops help the scum?
Also I don't know this but once again if we do terribad plan scum can easily ditch
I am pretty sure that you are severely missing the point. The entire town will not be helped by a mass RB. Scum will still get their night kill. If you really believe 5 vanilla mafia versus 17 vanilla town favors the town you are absolutely nuts.
Also bastard mod is a bastard mod game not exactly good evidence
no ad hom attack/ go kill yourself kk dude whatever(protip if you want me to listen to you don't contradict yourself)
I'm not attacking you. All I'm saying is that you need to post less so we can hunt scum. I think you're scum yourself but you can't be the only one.
I have already been infracted and have therefore toned down the language, i havent directly attacked anyone's intelligence I am currently attacking this terrible plan with ever fiber of my being
Attacking the plan is one thing. Saying that the person who came up with it is an idiot, or that someone who thinks a 17 townie/5 mafia vanilla setup favors the scum is "absolutely nuts" is something completely different. I would say "tell us why you don't like the plan" but the flaws in the plan have been outlined pretty clearly.
Also check my math? As far as I've seen you haven't presented any and while I'm decent at math i have hit a bit of a roadblock on this one due to the plethora of cases. Anyone who would be willing to run a 5v17 town odds i would greatly appreciate it
Simple.
D1: 17 townies/5 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D2: 15 townies/5 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D3: 13 townies/5 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D4: 11 townies/5 mafia - town is at LYLO. (town HAS to lynch a mafia today or the game is over)
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D5: 10 townies/4 mafia - town at LYLO with a VNL. (voting for a no-lynch doesn't lose the game here)
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D6: 9 townies/3 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D7: 7 townies/3 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D8: 5 townies/3 mafia - town is back at LYLO
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D9: 4 townies/2 mafia - Town at LYLO with a VNL.
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D10: 3 Townies/1 mafia - Town still at LYLO with a VNL.
That's 5 townies lynched and the town can STILL win the game on day 10. As I said, the general rule of thumb is this: the scum should win if they can cause 3 townies to be lynched. In a vanilla setting the town gains an extra 2 lynches to play with; and can manufacutre a third and possibly even a 4th by not hanging 3 townies to start the game.
it's theoretically possible for the town to mislynch SIX TIMES and still win the game in a vanilla setup with those proportions.
How does shutting off all docs and cops help the scum?
It's not the point. The point is removing ALL abilities - this includes mafia roleblockers, redirectors, and serial killers that can mess with the math as I described it above.
Also I don't know this but once again if we do terribad plan scum can easily ditch
This has been repeated Ad Nauseam (but not Ad Nauseam) and is why we aren't going with the plan, unless there is someone who can force everyone into a certain zone, or have a similar effect.
Arguably the best thing for you to do is not post for a day. Let the analysts do what they do best without forcing them to pay attention to you.
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Alright, enough with the dream world organization (which by the way, you should check your math as there is 21 people and with your math of 17 to 5 means there is 22 people). Sure CM, it could work like that, but you and I both know that it is improbable. According to mafiascribe and using their town values:
Townies- 1 point Mafia- 4.5 points. With the likely split of 5 mafia to 16 townies (assuming no neutrals) would be a point value of 22.5 to 16, a game in favor of the mafia. Seems bad...
@Poggy: Is something happening outside of the forums that is causing your behavior? Even for you, your acting a bit out of place....
I have already been infracted and have therefore toned down the language, i havent directly attacked anyone's intelligence I am currently attacking this terrible plan with ever fiber of my being
Here's my main rub: no one ever said it was a good idea. I merely said it was an option. Your insistence that this is a bad plan makes me feel you are scum because scum have a lot to lose if this snowballs into a reality. Along with various ad hom and mudslinging while doing no scumhunting whatsoever. This is why I am voting you.
I don't find Poggy (currently) much worse than the worst poster of an average game. Now that I've gotten used to him I don't really find his latest posts that scummy. I think people are just reacting badly to his confrontational style.
Quote from JSColton »
As for your question. At the moment, the scummiest player is Poggy, followed closely by Shalako.
Reasons for poggy? And shalako? How scummy do you find them?
Are people actually interested in Zionite's "massblock" plan or are you guys just arguing with poggy because it's poggy? It seems like some of you actually would prefer to play this like a basic game :boggle:
Forgot I had class today, so will check Mander's reply tomorrow.
@posting restriction on keifru-in GHS he attempted to play in character, so he might be doing that here with no actual posting restriction
Poggydude is most correct in...this matter. I do not have any...posting restriction which requires...ellipsis (Thats what they are called, Shakalaka) being abused worse than... a Numan operative in an underground... Manite internment camp. It was what came to my mind...when I thought of my character. It is something of my...flavour of 'fun' I get in these games.
@ Keifru- if you can, please stop with the posting style. I find it quite annoying when reading since my brain automatically takes the breaks you're including.
I would prefer to...do so, but if you find it so very...crippling to read then I will...acede (I can't spell that right now) to your...request.
Poggydude is most correct in...this matter. I do not have any...posting restriction which requires...ellipsis (Thats what they are called, Shakalaka) being abused worse than... a Numan operative in an underground... Manite internment camp. It was what came to my mind...when I thought of my character. It is something of my...flavour of 'fun' I get in these games.
At least you do this as opposed to being as random and ridiculous as possible.
I would prefer to...do so, but if you find it so very...crippling to read then I will...acede (I can't spell that right now) to your...request.
It's not that I find it crippling. It's just, you ever seen Malcolm in the Middle? Remember Stevie, Malcolm's crippled best friend? I just feel like I'm talking to him, lol.
I know how you...feel. I keep attributing things to the...wrong people.
I don't think that's what he meant. mmod has an unfortunate problem with making a huge post, then losing it all somehow. I think that's what he means.
It's not the point. The point is removing ALL abilities - this includes mafia roleblockers, redirectors, and serial killers that can mess with the math as I described it above.
This has been repeated Ad Nauseam (but not Ad Nauseam) and is why we aren't going with the plan, unless there is someone who can force everyone into a certain zone, or have a similar effect.
Here's my main rub: no one ever said it was a good idea. I merely said it was an option. Your insistence that this is a bad plan makes me feel you are scum because scum have a lot to lose if this snowballs into a reality. Along with various ad hom and mudslinging while doing no scumhunting whatsoever. This is why I am voting you.
Its a bad plan.(no offense)
I am also against the claiming points plan.
We could just "pair" off to make sure we don`t randomly all end up in the same spot.
Poggydude is most correct in...this matter. I do not have any...posting restriction which requires...ellipsis (Thats what they are called, Shakalaka) being abused worse than... a Numan operative in an underground... Manite internment camp. It was what came to my mind...when I thought of my character. It is something of my...flavour of 'fun' I get in these games.
[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][FONT=ComicSansMS][B][COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][/COLOR][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]I would prefer to...do so, but if you find it so very...crippling to read then I will...acede (I can't spell that right now) to your...request.
[color=DarkSlateBlue][font=ComicSansMS][b]
It's not that I find it crippling. It's just, you ever seen Malcolm in the Middle? Remember Stevie, Malcolm's crippled best friend? I just feel like I'm talking to him, lol.
And now I won`t be able to get that out of my head for the rest of the game.
I don't think that's what he meant. mmod has an unfortunate problem with making a huge post, then losing it all somehow. I think that's what he means.[/b][/font][/color]
With...claimed +X we can...spread people out accordingly so as...to have the lockdown initated. It, of...course, runs with the assumption...that only scum would try to...move around. If scum...do move around, then abilities...will not get wasted...regardless. And we...will know. The reason it's a plan...is because it uses... some coordination.
Huh.
Good plan.
Need to check all the angles before I agree with it.
[color=DarkSlateBlue][font=ComicSansMS][b][color=DarkSlateBlue][font=ComicSansMS][b]@ mmod: Sorry it took so long, but as I said, re-reading's a pain, and I can't quote them all.
Oh, and some of these are posts I noticed that no one mentioned and some are after I made my statement. I decided to include it all.
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#27: Fishing on poggy's "claim."
This one game
Poggy claimed at L-9 or so.
He was the doc.
#136: AI- States he's "trying to hard". I agree he's trying too hard to "fit in" much as he did in Basic #29.
hrm.
#139: Shalako claims that was a joke, but you'll notice that, when he's joking, he generally uses some kind of smilie. Didn't do that there.
I hope to God someone does a post count of all my jokes in all of my games and sees how many times I use Similes.
And then pushes it as a scum tell.:laugh:
Did it fulfill your wildest dreams?
Relatedly, I'm not liking Cyan. In re-reading, I noticed he got on the Shalako wagon (in the same post where he still says I'm scum) because "you guys may be on to something". Since then, he's called for more votes, provided a vague reason when asked why Shalako's scum, and nit-picked Shalako for his response re: Keifru. IGMEOY
So you think Cyan is scummy for pushing a wagon poorly on a player whom you think is scum?
What?
And manders if you look thats what most of my wagon is.(Not you Zin baby.)
Oh my dear Shalako, I really don't want to tell you for my own (i.e. selfish) reasons.
There is just a slight difference I notice in your dialogue, overall 'tone', voting habits, ect. Each one on its own is incredibly minuscule, but it is something I watch for. Since you have been in every game I have played in/currently in (minus basic 32) I feel like I can predict you pretty well, so while it is still early, I have a town read on you.
Others, on the other hand, I am having a hard time reading. Manders, for instance, I have a town read on, but Cyan's instance of her acting similar to another game she was scum concerns me, so who knows? I may just be completely wrong (but I was correct in basic 31 about you, if you remember correctly ;), with my only hesitance being you as a possible PR).
Throw that on the pile too.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
I think you're just proving the point now.
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Not sure, the only thing I remember is the rule of ~25%, so with 21 people would be somewhere around 5-6, depending on the PRs of the town/nuetral characters. My point was that in the what I believe to be the minimum number of townies, we would have more PRs than the scum, therefore a Roleblock would be worse for us AND the scum don't have to go to the area. Just seems bad in my opinion.
@AI:
I have played with shalako in basic 29 (as you said) basic 28, Bastard Mafia, Basic 31, and now this one. He was scum in 29 and 31, and I have been silently stalking TF2 (a game I was not in, but shalako was scum). I am confidant that he is just being shalako, and that he is town in this game. His replies may be annoying, but he is not scum.
@Cyan: What is your read on Poggy about now? I get an impression that he is trying to be seemingly raging/emotional town with this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by poggydude
So I guess I might just be terrible at this game but please for the love of god explain to me how the hell roleblocking the entire goddamn town was EVER a good plan. Unless you are suggesting that atlseal made a game with 10 town compulsive vigs(or some other antitown town role) you seriously need to think about this roleblock plan because last I checked town roles HELP the town.
As a side note, the all but investigative roleblock isnt terrible but as said before most town roles that I've seen are pretty protown
And anyone who says that I'm scum for calling this plan 100% retarded is invited to pull their head out of their ass
The GJ way path to no lynching:
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
I am in favour of...Magic Modifier (+X) soft claim that...Zionite proposed.
If we are to...mass role block a better plan would...be to spread everyone so as to...try and assure blocks occur. Specifically having...everyone use their ability to force it to...hit threshold. This way even...if scum don't go to the...planned zone we still...can intiate lockdown. Magic Modifier claim would...go a long ways toward...working on such a mass block...plan. If Magic Modifier is...cumulative, people could...turn themselves into area role blockers...as well. It would just take...some time.
I am liking the postings...of Zionite, desCourse, Emo_Pinata, Syrenz
I am not liking the postings...of Charm_Master, Poggydude
I am... intrigued at The Ice Man.
I am... intrigued at AsianInvasion.
I am... intrigued at Infinis.
I am... indifferent at Shakalaco.
Who wishes to come...with me to area 4...tonight?
RIP Krensae Fluidtail: Sleep well with the fish
Except the problem with a soft claim of that latitude is that the odds are PRs will probably not be 1:
And how would everyone know where to spread out? They wouldn't. For all we know, all X or whatever number of PRs might go into the same 1-2 areas, while the scum hide somewhere else...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
With...claimed +X we can...spread people out accordingly so as...to have the lockdown initated. It, of...course, runs with the assumption...that only scum would try to...move around. If scum...do move around, then abilities...will not get wasted...regardless. And we...will know. The reason it's a plan...is because it uses... some coordination.
I doubt...just going off the...number will tip the hand...of what role a person...has. That is, atleast, my belief.
RIP Krensae Fluidtail: Sleep well with the fish
What if I told you that I can tell the level of magic power in an area, if given a rough approximation?
I wanted to see his response. I'm still a bit up in the air with him.
Shalako, if you don't really know what the case against you is, then I would suggest perhaps asking. Or, you know, ignoring it, since generally it takes a few more than 4 votes to get a lynch. But I'm pretty sure that saying "Oh hey, I found some interesting quotes from this other game I was in. Do you still think I'm scum?" is the wrong way to go about it.
poggy and jordman have a lot of similarities, but I guess poggy was active while ~V~ was, meaning jordman would've had to have had (would've had to have had - my grammar crits you for over 9000) the foresight to create two gimmicks and run them concurrently, so in reality he probably isn't.
I've thought the plans over and I think the risk of some would-be mavericks deciding they know better and their role is "more important" (see bateleur in CCMIV) then contravening the plan, then getting tracked by townies on the prowl for mafia operating outside the boundaries of the plan, and finally getting mislynched is too much. There are a number of players in this game who I simply don't trust to go along with any comprehensive plan.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
The Family
You should be more specific. What qualitative differences exist between his town and scum play in your opinion, and how do these compare to his play here?
I thought I first proposed that claim? Regardless, people weren't too enthused about the idea the first time around. It could work in the early game, especially since the scum will likely tell the truth (or risk getting caught), but like I said, later on this will become impossible due to the number of players decreasing (unless, of course, the moderator has designs to compensate for this shrinking of the population).
Sounds dirty. Why not?
I would ask you what you mean by "if given a rough approximation" and ask you how this ability, paired with your stated plan, helps catch scum when we have no way of knowing which player/s caused the discrepancy in total magic level.
I mentioned 3 people in that post:
Zionite is the only one of those 3 I'm leaning town on. His plan was pretty bad but I'm getting a town feeling from him. I said that Tordeck's response seems genuine, but didn't mention a thing about his alignment. Just because they have a genuine response doesn't make them town. A scum could mistake the lynch threshold just as easily as a townie. I specifically said I was fencesitting on Manders. So obviously I'm not confident she's town.
I'm not sure where you saw all this confidence, but maybe you just misread my post.
As for your question. At the moment, the scummiest player is Poggy, followed closely by Shalako.
For reference, here is the associated quote from poggy:
My problem with you was that you weren't questioning him - you were angling to get information out of him by twisting his words (granted you didn't have to twist much further, but still...)
As for the statement itself, I happen to agree - outing vanilla townies is bad for the town in general because it lets the scum focus on the power roles, which they can identify through PoE.
As an aside, keifru's posting is...weird. As if he's under a captain Kirk like PR where he has to take lots of pauses in random places.
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Nope
Interesting, how rough?
I did ask.
It was because I look like noob scum./lame
Oh yeah Big game.:)
Looking forward to manders response
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
What are you basing that opinion on, Shalako?
In the only game I've played with Keifru, he did the same thing, of his own volition?
Didn't we just go over this with Tordeck?
The ...
...
Thing.
He did not do it in any other game.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Probably a PR/Fake PR.
I didn't propose the "claim +X" softclaim, I believe AI did. I'm indifferent on the idea. On one hand it could give scum a place to look for town power roles, but on the other hand we still won't know what those powers are and it will lock people into place for claiming which is usually a good thing. I don't mind claiming mine, but I don't want to force others who say it's a bad idea.
.
I like Syrenz, Zionite, and, to a lesser extent, Cyan as town.
I'm keeping my eye on tordeck and MandersHex.
It disturbs me that you feel this confident about him. What are the discrepancies between Shalako's town and scum play?
Your response to AI "I am not lazy". My question to you "Why did you not say something like 'claim range' or imply that it was time for Poggy to claim if you thought he was at claim range? Why did you only say 'I find Poggy suspect' and nothing else?
How exactly does your response to AI connect to my question?
Why are you refusing to address my question?
I wonder, had you not called it, if he would actually have tried to explain.
Elaborate. What is town Shalako and what is scum Shalako?
I don't see anything wrong with what Shalako said. No clue what you're getting at here.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
And no AI did not influence me in my response.
The Family
He is posting style of silliness is pretty much the same as Bastard Mafia, but this time, he isn't doing his whole "gun nut" gambit, so that strikes me as town who learned how to act differently, while still being shalako.
The rest of it is mainly gut feeling. I mean, I daresay out of any of you, I have been in more games with shalako, so I have been starting to get a feel of how he acts, and I am feeling like he is town right now, but later in the game, I will be able to prove that more concretely, but only if shalako "sobers" up earlier than he usually does.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'd rather not say until we decide who's going to be there, and their power levels. But, I could figure out the power level of the zone to within about 3 or 4.
Oh, and some of these are posts I noticed that no one mentioned and some are after I made my statement. I decided to include it all.
----------------------------------
#27: Fishing on poggy's "claim."
#61: zinda- points out Zi didn't say anything about mafia NK & Shalako looks bad for bringing it up.
#100: zinda- re: Shalako's non-chalance re: zinda's vote.
#136: AI- States he's "trying to hard". I agree he's trying too hard to "fit in" much as he did in Basic #29.
#138: CM- Highlights Shalako's response to AI's fake WC claim.
#139: Shalako claims that was a joke, but you'll notice that, when he's joking, he generally uses some kind of smilie. Didn't do that there.
#194: Gigas- Doesn't like how Shalako's using quotes from other games.
#200: dC- States the "victim complex" feels off. I'll go further and say it is forced.
Did it fulfill your wildest dreams?
Relatedly, I'm not liking Cyan. In re-reading, I noticed he got on the Shalako wagon (in the same post where he still says I'm scum) because "you guys may be on to something". Since then, he's called for more votes, provided a vague reason when asked why Shalako's scum, and nit-picked Shalako for his response re: Keifru. IGMEOY
@ Keifru- if you can, please stop with the posting style. I find it quite annoying when reading since my brain automatically takes the breaks you're including.
Up next is a post for poggydude.
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@EP: Saw I forgot to answer your other question. I meant to say everything I did re: poggy in the post that I said I forgot to unvote, vote poggy. I just plain forgot to mention him.
@zindabad: Do the titles of your posts have any relevance?
----------------------------------
Ok, poggydude.
#62 & 63- You say you can see Zionite making a suggestion like that as town & unvote.
#81- You re-vote after Zionite explains further and jump to a meta defense for why you waited to initially vote.
#84- You ask us if Zionite is known for suggesting really dumb ideas.
Why did you unvote in the first place for the reason you stated if you had to ask us if he was known for this?
In other words, what's the real reason you unvoted?
#124- So, if you were "mulling it over", why didn't you at least FoS?
#180- The town's greatest weapon is and always has been the lynch. Mass RB won't stop that, so town wouldn't be defenseless.
In fact, if it wasn't so anonymous, I would fully support Zi's suggestion. Day= town kill
Night = scum kill
So, as long as we didn't mislynch a lot, town would definitely win in a few days.
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Last time i whipped out an early FoS in a game i got gang raped ask anyone from basic 31
final thing, QUIT PRETENDING THAT ZIONITE'S IDEA IS GOOD OR LINK ME TO A GAME IN WHICH TOWN PRS HURT THE TOWN. GRR
Link me to a game where the night was better for the town than the scum.
True, cop investigations help. However, that was close to being good for us, if Malcolm had lived up to his threat to kill you. Or AI had believed that he did. However, I'll link you to a game that WAS better for the scum than the town. Let's see... It's hard to find one, only 90% of the games here are. Ah, here's one: Basic #29. Here's another: Annorax's. Do I need more? In case I do: Goo. If you still need more, you completely miss the point.
Also bastard mod is a bastard mod game not exactly good evidence
And for the record, in a 17 town/5 scum vanilla game, the town can mislynch 3 times and still win. Depending on when scum hang, it's possible to afford a 4th mislynch. A town that makes 4 mislynches has no place winning the game anyway. So if you are going to go off on a tangent like that, it helps to check your math first
Tl;dr please shut up and/or kill yourself.
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How do you know this?
@dC: Pretty much, yes.
My internet has been up and down recently, but I'm planning to reread Shalako when I get the time. His obnoxious attitude seems similar to TF2 where he was scum.
Yeah, 17 town vs. 5 mafia sounds pretty good. The point of a mass RB is obviously not to help the town; it's to hurt the scum.
I have already been infracted and have therefore toned down the language, i havent directly attacked anyone's intelligence I am currently attacking this terrible plan with ever fiber of my being
Also check my math? As far as I've seen you haven't presented any and while I'm decent at math i have hit a bit of a roadblock on this one due to the plethora of cases. Anyone who would be willing to run a 5v17 town odds i would greatly appreciate it
How does shutting off all docs and cops help the scum?
Also I don't know this but once again if we do terribad plan scum can easily ditch
The Family
If you can't understand that it also stops the scum's abilities, then I'm not going to continue to try to explain why it can work.
That's the ONLY valid point you've presented. Yes, the scum could desert it. If this problem cannot be worked out, then the plan doesn't work.
I'm not attacking you. All I'm saying is that you need to post less so we can hunt scum. I think you're scum yourself but you can't be the only one.
Attacking the plan is one thing. Saying that the person who came up with it is an idiot, or that someone who thinks a 17 townie/5 mafia vanilla setup favors the scum is "absolutely nuts" is something completely different. I would say "tell us why you don't like the plan" but the flaws in the plan have been outlined pretty clearly.
Simple.
D1: 17 townies/5 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D2: 15 townies/5 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D3: 13 townies/5 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D4: 11 townies/5 mafia - town is at LYLO. (town HAS to lynch a mafia today or the game is over)
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D5: 10 townies/4 mafia - town at LYLO with a VNL. (voting for a no-lynch doesn't lose the game here)
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D6: 9 townies/3 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D7: 7 townies/3 mafia
1 townie lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D8: 5 townies/3 mafia - town is back at LYLO
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D9: 4 townies/2 mafia - Town at LYLO with a VNL.
1 scum lynched, 1 townie nightkilled
D10: 3 Townies/1 mafia - Town still at LYLO with a VNL.
That's 5 townies lynched and the town can STILL win the game on day 10. As I said, the general rule of thumb is this: the scum should win if they can cause 3 townies to be lynched. In a vanilla setting the town gains an extra 2 lynches to play with; and can manufacutre a third and possibly even a 4th by not hanging 3 townies to start the game.
it's theoretically possible for the town to mislynch SIX TIMES and still win the game in a vanilla setup with those proportions.
It's not the point. The point is removing ALL abilities - this includes mafia roleblockers, redirectors, and serial killers that can mess with the math as I described it above.
This has been repeated Ad Nauseam (but not Ad Nauseam) and is why we aren't going with the plan, unless there is someone who can force everyone into a certain zone, or have a similar effect.
Arguably the best thing for you to do is not post for a day. Let the analysts do what they do best without forcing them to pay attention to you.
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Townies- 1 point Mafia- 4.5 points. With the likely split of 5 mafia to 16 townies (assuming no neutrals) would be a point value of 22.5 to 16, a game in favor of the mafia. Seems bad...
@Poggy: Is something happening outside of the forums that is causing your behavior? Even for you, your acting a bit out of place....
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Here's my main rub: no one ever said it was a good idea. I merely said it was an option. Your insistence that this is a bad plan makes me feel you are scum because scum have a lot to lose if this snowballs into a reality. Along with various ad hom and mudslinging while doing no scumhunting whatsoever. This is why I am voting you.
I don't find Poggy (currently) much worse than the worst poster of an average game. Now that I've gotten used to him I don't really find his latest posts that scummy. I think people are just reacting badly to his confrontational style.
Reasons for poggy? And shalako? How scummy do you find them?
Are people actually interested in Zionite's "massblock" plan or are you guys just arguing with poggy because it's poggy? It seems like some of you actually would prefer to play this like a basic game :boggle:
Forgot I had class today, so will check Mander's reply tomorrow.
Poggydude is most correct in...this matter. I do not have any...posting restriction which requires...ellipsis (Thats what they are called, Shakalaka) being abused worse than... a Numan operative in an underground... Manite internment camp. It was what came to my mind...when I thought of my character. It is something of my...flavour of 'fun' I get in these games.
I would prefer to...do so, but if you find it so very...crippling to read then I will...acede (I can't spell that right now) to your...request.
I know how you...feel. I keep attributing things to the...wrong people.
RIP Krensae Fluidtail: Sleep well with the fish
At least you do this as opposed to being as random and ridiculous as possible.
It's not that I find it crippling. It's just, you ever seen Malcolm in the Middle? Remember Stevie, Malcolm's crippled best friend? I just feel like I'm talking to him, lol.
I don't think that's what he meant. mmod has an unfortunate problem with making a huge post, then losing it all somehow. I think that's what he means.
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The problem is [B]it doesn`t[/B] stop the scum abilities.
Nod.
I noticed it also.
He has not finished any scum games though.
Its a bad plan.(no offense)
I am also against the claiming points plan.
We could just "pair" off to make sure we don`t randomly all end up in the same spot.
Ahh okay thanks.
I don`t mind the ellipsis.
And now I won`t be able to get that out of my head for the rest of the game.
He did it in TF2 also
Agree.
I plan on staying at sexy six.
Huh.
Good plan.
Need to check all the angles before I agree with it.
Yep,
I really want to know this for personal reasons.
Hrmmm.
I will consider it.
This one game
Poggy claimed at L-9 or so.
He was the doc.
hrm.
I hope to God someone does a post count of all my jokes in all of my games and sees how many times I use Similes.
And then pushes it as a scum tell.:laugh:
So you think Cyan is scummy for pushing a wagon poorly on a player whom you think is scum?
What?
And manders if you look thats what most of my wagon is.(Not you Zin baby.)
Hey guys wanna see a magic trick?
[B][COLOR="Black"]MOD: Will the Government Lock Down stop the Mafia Night Kill.[/COLOR][/B]
He is going to say "No Comment."[/Color]
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Oh my dear Shalako, I really don't want to tell you for my own (i.e. selfish) reasons.
There is just a slight difference I notice in your dialogue, overall 'tone', voting habits, ect. Each one on its own is incredibly minuscule, but it is something I watch for. Since you have been in every game I have played in/currently in (minus basic 32) I feel like I can predict you pretty well, so while it is still early, I have a town read on you.
Others, on the other hand, I am having a hard time reading. Manders, for instance, I have a town read on, but Cyan's instance of her acting similar to another game she was scum concerns me, so who knows? I may just be completely wrong (but I was correct in basic 31 about you, if you remember correctly ;), with my only hesitance being you as a possible PR).
The GJ way path to no lynching: