W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
The end will come in all occasions, but when it takes a form so grim, the good must exhaust themselves in opposition. At last the noble reluctantly yield to the inexorable, and the Fiends take this fight as a well-earned victory. On this page of legend, the light of pure hope has extinguished, and now it must wait for a greater champion to reignite it.
Archmage Eternal, Lv7 Ninja (Hero of Light) and Keifru, Lv6 White Wizard (Hero of Light) have conceded.
The game is now over with the Forces of Evil victorious! Congratulations to AsianInvasion, DRey, falkonn, The Ice King, DYH, and jskura. Information on setup/actions/scumQT forthcoming.
Setup
- The first part is simply the first few posts of the game thread, the middle part is the role information and distribution, and the bottom green text is just setup notes from when I was refining the setup.
Actions Spreadsheet
- Feel free to ask if you have any questions about anything on here.
Anyone interested in looking at the spectator forum (there's not too much of interest there), should send a email address we can invite to either Manders or I.
Unfortunately, I figured out the mafia team (hadn't accounted for the fact that there'd be 6, but that was me just not thinking) after I had already died.
Ok, now that that's over and done with:
While the idea had promise, here's what I believe should have been done differently:
1) Players choosing role after they find out their alignment
2) Players knowing at least the range of damage that they do with their attacks. We were more or less lynching blind on multiple accounts (randomness to damage + having no idea how much damage we do in the first place). Mafia had the ability to share dealt damage for role hints
3) As I said much earlier, the entire shift of power in this game was destined to be town->mafia due to the way cash/items worked with no new sources of inflow
1) Players choosing role after they find out their alignment
I considered this but decided that allowing the mafia to choose their roles afterwards would slant the role distribution. The game would run better with the more even distribution of roles we found here.
2) Players knowing at least the range of damage that they do with their attacks. We were more or less lynching blind on multiple accounts (randomness to damage + having no idea how much damage we do in the first place). Mafia had the ability to share dealt damage for role hints
A lot of players guessed that they would deal damage equal to the sum of the appropriate modifiers and they weren't to far off - I merely multiplied the damage dealt by a random modified between 0.75 and 1.25.
I felt this was necessary because I was incredibly concerned over how accountable the mafia would have to be if the town could precisely calculate everything. Once the town figured out how much each player could deal, any sort of renegade action could be too dangerous for scum players. I also believe that the random dogpiling we saw was preferable to tedious calculations so that every last point of damage was used optimally - I didn't want to game to drag because of the mechanical intricacy.
3) As I said much earlier, the entire shift of power in this game was destined to be town->mafia due to the way cash/items worked with no new sources of inflow
Fundamentally the shift of power was only limited in that it shifted towards the players who were successfully killing other players. The mafia had the advantage in that they could coordinate and had the combo attack, but the town had far larger capacity to deal damage. Ordinarily, I felt the momentum could have benefited either side, depending on the town's success during the day.
The reason the balance shifted so quickly and irreversibly towards the mafia was twofold. The first was that the early days gave the town very little information, much less than I anticipated. The fiasco with Heartwork and RisingPhoenix was a easy behavioral smokescreen for the scum to hide behind, and neither player claimed before death (In fact, it seems like there was a noticeable lack of claims coming from dying townies. I had imagined the town would have a very good idea of what each class's capabilities were towards the endgame, yet in this case, the town still knew very little. It would be interesting to hear from some townies as to why they didn't claim before their "lynch"). The town was unable to efficiently narrow down their suspects (after DRey), and their firepower ended up being spread too thin and towards the wrong people.
The second reason was that the mafia pulled a mechanical risk to get some serious firepower early on. Their machinations to acquire Aeria's Maul were uninterrupted and they were able to hold on to the weapon for the entire game. I don't believe it was unduly overpowered in the hands of the mafia (There were a multitude of ways it could have come back to bite them), but the design of the weapon itself was probably too swingy.
The goal behind this setup was to blend the elements of a traditional RPG with those of a mafia game in a manner that was both feasible for the moderators to run and enjoyable to the players.
The former proved to a significant challenge each night - we tried our best to resolve everything accurately, and aside from a few hiccups, I think we did a passable job considering the complicated mechanics. Much thanks to Manders, who provided invaluable help all over the place: dealing with day attacks, putting up vote counts, typing up night actions, etc.
The less mechanical aspects of my moderation, however, I felt was far from satisfactory. At the beginning of the game, I was a little concerned over the manner in which the players were treating each other. Perhaps it was because I hadn't played for a while and was merely unaccustomed to the expected behavior; regardless, Manders told me it was fine. A crescendo in concerning behavior (and assurance that I was not delusional from Manders), however, compelled me to make this post, in which I condemned Heartwork's post and made my ultimatum. A few posts later, it appeared that I would be forced to act upon it. At the time, Manders and I were unsure of what action to take. Cyan and other players on the Spectator forum cautioned us against replacing, while Azrael and Arimnaes felt that replacing was justifiable. In the end, I decided that Zionite and poggydude's actions were in clear violation of my conditions, and I acted.
In hindsight, however, it was clear that my choice was incorrect. There's a fundamental difference between the behavior that I was concerned about and that of poggydude and Zionite. The former was characterized by continual purposeless insults. The latter was an expression of genuine anger and frustration. Replacing the two players was not only unfair to the them, it also ended up hurting the game later on; we were under the impression that we had more than enough replacements, but ended up one short with MMOD. This is an apology to both poggydude and Zionite. Zionite mentioned that contrition now can't change the fact that he was cheated of the time he invested, and he's absolutely right. But since the action we took was unfortunately irreversible, I can offer nothing but my aid should either ever want and require it.
To end on a brighter note, I hope everyone involved managed to have fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the setup - we invested a sizable portion of our time attempting to balance it, and, as of now, I'm of the opinion we did a fair job. I think the town's mislynches warranted their loss, Garland's sneakiness warranted how close he got to winning, and the mafia's under-the-radar play and excellent night action choices warranted their victory.
Day Talk was incredibly powerful ability for the mafia to have. At night, the mafia had the clear advantage of coordinating attacks, while with any luck, the town would have the advantage at day were people were held accountable. I felt by giving us day talk, you took away the town's advantage in the daytime.
To the town: I feel that a night claim would have been incredibly useful, as while you couldn't account for the combo attack, you could take into account anything else. There wasn't really a super class (although the White mage seemed the strongest at lvl 10, imo) that you should have been scared of revealing yourselves. Only towards the end, when our white mage learned resurrect, did we fear a specific class.
I also felt Resurrect was far too powerful for the game, mafia or town. Fortunately, we won without it, but I see that as being incredibly swingy, despite not having weapons.
Day Talk was incredibly powerful ability for the mafia to have. At night, the mafia had the clear advantage of coordinating attacks, while with any luck, the town would have the advantage at day were people were held accountable. I felt by giving us day talk, you took away the town's advantage in the daytime.
That's a good point. The original intent for daytalk was to allow the mafia to coordinate and snipe important players/items during the day. That's probably an advantage the mafia didn't need to have.
I also felt Resurrect was far too powerful for the game, mafia or town. Fortunately, we won without it, but I see that as being incredibly swingy, despite not having weapons.
For those who haven't read the setup, we're talking about the spell Raise, that the White Wizard could learn at Level 8, which could revive a player from the dead once per game at the cost of 30 MP. I actually believe that including that spell was a mistake, although not for the reasons you believe.
The spell's actual effectiveness is questionable, since its really more of a "win-more" spell. Any faction that can afford to spend a night and 30 MP reviving a player to half health with alignment revealed and no equipment must be in the lead. It is especially useless for the mafia, since the time it buys is not worth the 30 MP and action - the town could conceivably protect and equip the player they raise, although more often than not it would be a poor allocation of time and resources.
What was more regrettable about the spell was that its existence sort of prevented us giving dead players any information about the setup. I know more than one occasion we had to refuse a fallen player's request (or a live player's in Guardman's case - you'll forgive us for never actually forwarding your message to AI). I completely didn't consider that when I kept the spell in there, and the disadvantages certainly outweigh the simple "wow-factor" it provides.
I still don't think I should've been forcibly replaced. I've heard and seen worse and it possibly affected the game. Felt like favoritism and like 'setting an example' work. That's my opinion, feel free to disagree.
Blegh is what i feel when i saw the scum had 6 members and daytalk. All things considered, if the town had actually just spewed info into the thread, it would have killed us faster. This game relied too much on the trust someone was town, there's plenty of options but you never have any clue whom your helping or hurting or even by how much.
Sure, the scum usually have more information, but this game felt like a 5 year old vs. the CIA in who could catch Bin-Laden faster. The scum had all the resources, and the town was so in the dark about everything.
The biggest issue the town ended up facing was itself. When i was killed, i was about to post if i should heal myself or just give the potion to someone trustworthy. Attacking without consent of the town as town is just so degrading and wasteful. Seriously, the moment i saw my killer was town, i knew the town had no chance.
I do think the setup was a nice change of pace, but day 1 just killed most of the enthusiasm i could have towards this game. I would love to see it tweaked and re-balanced and run again sometime in the future.
Ironically enough I think I was the towniest person in the game. I killed AI night 1 and I figured out that DYH was scum. The only reason I wasn't able to kill DYH was I needed to gambit on Vezo coming up as scum. I didn't think he was, but at that point in time it was the only chance I had when I saw that those left were against me (interesting note if I remember correctly I was mostly a scum driven wagon until the end when everyone attacked me).
Also despite what people may think I thought I did a good job as the SK. I think what hurt me the most was the town. Honestly I think if you guys had listened to me and killed DYH my chances of winning would've skyrocketed.
Also one thing about my skill Dominate. I honestly think the cost was too high. With the ten HP reduction I could only really use it when I was sure I was going to win with it. Elsewise if I used it too early it set me up for a weak late game, but if I used it during the endgame it would probably either be a winmore or a lose quicker proposition. If it only dealt me ten damage instead of reducing my total HP I think it would've been a much better skill and one that I could actually use without worrying about it weakening me too much.
Overall good game. I really enjoyed being the SK here.
I still don't think I should've been forcibly replaced. I've heard and seen worse and it possibly affected the game. Felt like favoritism and like 'setting an example' work. That's my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I agree that you shouldn't have been replaced for the sake of upholding my statement. Favoritism, though, is an odd accusation to use here - we certainly weren't biased against you. If anything, we were more hesitant to act because you hadn't shown any disruptive behavior prior.
Blegh is what i feel when i saw the scum had 6 members and daytalk. All things considered, if the town had actually just spewed info into the thread, it would have killed us faster. This game relied too much on the trust someone was town, there's plenty of options but you never have any clue whom your helping or hurting or even by how much.
Sure, the scum usually have more information, but this game felt like a 5 year old vs. the CIA in who could catch Bin-Laden faster. The scum had all the resources, and the town was so in the dark about everything.
Spewing info indiscriminately would have been a mistake. Not getting claims from townies who were going down is one as well. Since the mafia can freely exchange info, they would likely already have a working idea with what each class is capable of - the town remained unnecessarily in the dark the entire game.
The biggest issue the town ended up facing was itself. When i was killed, i was about to post if i should heal myself or just give the potion to someone trustworthy. Attacking without consent of the town as town is just so degrading and wasteful. Seriously, the moment i saw my killer was town, i knew the town had no chance.
There's always going to be people who are convinced the majority is being led astray. This wouldn't have been as bad if not for the fact that most (all?) rogue attacks ended up being made against townies. Realistically, however, this isn't particular to this game: any situation in which errant townies both refuse to listen the majority and have incorrect reads is going to end up hurting the town.
Quote from Guardman »
Also one thing about my skill Dominate. I honestly think the cost was too high. With the ten HP reduction I could only really use it when I was sure I was going to win with it. Elsewise if I used it too early it set me up for a weak late game, but if I used it during the endgame it would probably either be a winmore or a lose quicker proposition. If it only dealt me ten damage instead of reducing my total HP I think it would've been a much better skill and one that I could actually use without worrying about it weakening me too much.
I wasn't sure how to balance it, so I erred on the side of caution - it's better to have many marginal options than a single disruptive one. I think you can agree that it's certainly very powerful - maybe it too should have been limited to one use per game?
I wasn't sure how to balance it, so I erred on the side of caution - it's better to have many marginal options than a single disruptive one. I think you can agree that it's certainly very powerful - maybe it too should have been limited to one use per game?
The main problem with it is I would be very wary to use it more than once. And I am very wary to use it even once. Unlike the scum I am alone and my HP is by far my most precious commodity. Plus the other problem is that if I use it and my target dies I just wasted 10 HP for nothing. While it is powerful there is way too much downside for me to even consider it unless I was absolutely sure. As such I kind of felt it was useless because the risk and weakening wasn't worth the reward.
Also I would like to point out that this is the second game as SK where the following has happened.
1. I am scum.
2. AI attacks me Day 1.
3. I kill AI during the night.
4. AI was scum.
The main problem with it is I would be very wary to use it more than once. And I am very wary to use it even once. Unlike the scum I am alone and my HP is by far my most precious commodity. Plus the other problem is that if I use it and my target dies I just wasted 10 HP for nothing. While it is powerful there is way too much downside for me to even consider it unless I was absolutely sure. As such I kind of felt it was useless because the risk and weakening wasn't worth the reward.
I didn't make myself clear - I was proposing to exchange the HP penalty for a once-per-game restriction.
The second reason was that the mafia pulled a mechanical risk to get some serious firepower early on. Their machinations to acquire Aeria's Maul were uninterrupted and they were able to hold on to the weapon for the entire game. I don't believe it was unduly overpowered in the hands of the mafia (There were a multitude of ways it could have come back to bite them), but the design of the weapon itself was probably too swingy.
I'll take credit for pushing that plan through to fruition.
The former proved to a significant challenge each night - we tried our best to resolve everything accurately, and aside from a few hiccups, I think we did a passable job considering the complicated mechanics. Much thanks to Manders, who provided invaluable help all over the place: dealing with day attacks, putting up vote counts, typing up night actions, etc.
There was one post in Day One where MandersHex basically outed half the scum team by forgetting to list us as having resolved Attacks. The only non-mafia player she forgot was Arcadic, which led us to speculate that he was Garland. It's a good thing the town never picked up on that post.
In the end, I decided that Zionite and poggydude's actions were in clear violation of my conditions, and I acted.
I think forcibly replacing them was a bit too rash. I would have given a final warning at the point that you replaced them, and then kicked them out if they continued to act that way.
What was more regrettable about the spell was that its existence sort of prevented us giving dead players any information about the setup. I know more than one occasion we had to refuse a fallen player's request (or a live player's in Guardman's case - you'll forgive us for never actually forwarding your message to AI). I completely didn't consider that when I kept the spell in there, and the disadvantages certainly outweigh the simple "wow-factor" it provides.
A player with access to the spectator forum told me that Guardman was Garland. Kind of awkward when I saw in the mafia chat that my buddies were considering Raising me (prior to Guardman's death)...
So now that the game is over, what was in the message? Just what Guardman posted about him killing mafia-me as the SK twice?
Ironically enough I think I was the towniest person in the game. I killed AI night 1 and I figured out that DYH was scum. The only reason I wasn't able to kill DYH was I needed to gambit on Vezo coming up as scum. I didn't think he was, but at that point in time it was the only chance I had when I saw that those left were against me (interesting note if I remember correctly I was mostly a scum driven wagon until the end when everyone attacked me).
I guess it's just your playstyle, but you were scummy in Indiana Jones and you were scummy here. It was your ridiculous role (accompanied by a Mythril Hammer) that let you live so long in this game, not your play. But you made it pretty close regardless, so I have to give you some props for that. It's a good thing too, since your scumminess distracted from my buddies.
Also I would like to point out that this is the second game as SK where the following has happened.
1. I am scum.
2. AI attacks me Day 1.
3. I kill AI during the night.
4. AI was scum.
As soon as I saw this I laughed so hard.
I was not amused.
In the end, I think the scum just plain outplayed the town. Sure, the setup helped us quite a bit, and Guardman was a huge distraction at just the right time, but considering that only one mafioso ever got "lynched," and none NK'd by town, that speaks volumes. Good work, red team!
Thanks for the game, iLord and MandersHex! A very interesting setup, to be sure, and I hope to see more such creativity from you in the future!
A player with access to the spectator forum told me that Guardman was Garland. Kind of awkward when I saw in the mafia chat that my buddies were considering Raising me (prior to Guardman's death)...
I guess it's just your playstyle, but you were scummy in Indiana Jones and you were scummy here. It was your ridiculous role (accompanied by a Mythril Hammer) that let you live so long in this game, not your play. But you made it pretty close regardless, so I have to give you some props for that. It's a good thing too, since your scumminess distracted from my buddies.
My playstyle always puts me on the edge of being town and scum. It's actually why I think I do better with neutral roles than others as I am never so town that the scum want to lynch me and I am rarely scum enough with them that I get lynched. In fact I think Vezo won the scum the game. Him sleeping me when he did prevented me from killing DYH (I lied about the healing stuff). It also prevented me from buying another Hi-Potion. With DYH dead it would at least take me away from being scum. And without Vezo's sleep there wouldn't be as much reason to think I am Garland. After that I actually had most of the scum team down (falkonn was the only one I was unsure about and when Keifru screwed up I was sure he was scum). So I could kill them off at my leasure (in fact I didn't realize that your white mage was so powerful, which is what in that case could trip me up as I figured he was best for blinking and healing so I was probably going to save him for last as I could get past blinks).
In the end, I think the scum just plain outplayed the town. Sure, the setup helped us quite a bit, and Guardman was a huge distraction at just the right time, but considering that only one mafioso ever got "lynched," and none NK'd by town, that speaks volumes. Good work, red team!
The town was pretty bad. After the start of the game it seemed to pretty much come down to me vs. The Scum.
Yeah, I hit 10 pretty quick because of throwing holies around at everyone. It was fun =D.
Obviously Shinen blinked Drey night one, which bought the scum a ton of time since attacks had to be wasted day 2.
When I came in, saw what I had (after a quick clarification from Manders), I figured I had to lay as low as I possibly could without seeming like I was lurking, since that maul was almost 200gil. Of course, the other fun thing was when TIK used haste on me, allowing me to throw 2 holies at Guardman.
Speaking of which, I think you did an excellent job GM. We didnt have you pegged until real late in the game. For a while (as you can see in the scumchat), we had Cyouni pegged for a couple reasons.
Fun fact!
I had suggested that we might want to look at trying to kill both towns on what would have been the last night. After I calculated the combo cost, it would have equaled 144% of our health each. Needless to say, that idea was scrapped quick.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Ironically enough I think I was the towniest person in the game.
I think that was Altseal. It was obvious to my that after I died then Altseal died DYH was scum. No way he would live that far as town.
DAMN YOU TIK I figured out you were scum around the same time you lied about Sleep.(how you used it twice in a row or something like that I forget now.)
The biggest issue the town ended up facing was itself. When i was killed, i was about to post if i should heal myself or just give the potion to someone trustworthy. Attacking without consent of the town as town is just so degrading and wasteful. Seriously, the moment i saw my killer was town, i knew the town had no chance.
I was infuriated how the town could not handle not attacking without majority consensuses. I'm disappointed in peoples incompetence and that was really the largest factor leading to the town's destruction.
Unfortunately, I figured out the mafia team (hadn't accounted for the fact that there'd be 6, but that was me just not thinking) after I had already died.
I only had half of it.
I'm happy that you were town.
I would have felt really bad if I had healed you and you had been Scum.
The town losing MMOD out of no where hurt also.
I was sad the night I got killed.
The attack did like double my max health(I was full at the time).
I choose my role simply so I could roleblock the other players I didn't trust with their roles.
If I got to chose again I would go with a role with more health.
@Guardman: I slept you because you were a threat to the town. I was convinced you were the Sk after Cyunni died. In my mind I was blocking a NK from scum. And that should be a good thing.
At the end I had jskura and falkon pegged as scum. I wasn't sure if TIK was scum.
I did not expect DYH to flip scum.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
For record sakes, this was the fun I was having at night:
Night 2:
You used Holy on Reya Cookiebringer.
You used the factional spell Combo Attack (dealing 8 damage to yourself) on Shalako.
You have been dealt 0 damage in total tonight.
You killed Reya Cookiebringer and received 100 gil.
You have leveled up!
You have leveled up!
You are now White Wizard, Level 6.
Night 3:
You used Holy on Archmage Eternal, but it failed.
You have been dealt 8 damage in total tonight.
You bought a Potion and a Hi-Potion.
You used a Hi-Potion of DYH.
You gave a Rapier to The Ice King.
You gave 50 gil to falkonn.
You have leveled up!
You are now White Wizard, Level 8.
That one disappointed me.
Night 5:
You used Holy on Guardman.
You used Holy on Guardman.
You have been dealt 0 damage in total tonight.
You bought a Potion.
You gave a Rapier to falkonn.
You killed Guardman and got a Mythril Hammer, 2 Ethers, 2 Knives, and 120 gil.
You are still a White Wizard, Level 10.
And a list of all my spell available (found it funny that I had 2 instances of Holy)
Cure - 4 - Target player recovers a few Hit Points (+2 Bonus).
Blink - 8 - (Instant Spell) Target other player cannot be targeted by spells or attacks tonight. This spell is only successful if you are not targeted by spells or attacks tonight.
Vox - 6 - Removes Silence from target player.
Esuna - 6 - Removes Poison from target player.
Silence - 10 - Target player is Silenced. That player cannot cast spells. Silence can be healed by Vox.
Curaga - 14 - Target player recovers a lot of Hit Points (+8 Bonus).
Blindna - 6 - Removes Blind from target player.
Rise - 30 - Target dead player returns to life with half of their max Hit Points and Magic Points at the beginning of the following day. You may only use this once per game.
Curaja - 22 - (Instant Spell) Target player recovers all of his or her lost Hit Points.
Holy - 30 - Deals massive damage to target player (+20 Bonus).
Holy - 0 - Deals massive damage to target player (+20 Bonus).
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
There was one post in Day One where MandersHex basically outed half the scum team by forgetting to list us as having resolved Attacks. The only non-mafia player she forgot was Arcadic, which led us to speculate that he was Garland. It's a good thing the town never picked up on that post.
That was certainly unfortunate. Luckily for us, since Arcadic was town, there was no way for either faction to capitalize upon it.
Quote from AI »
A player with access to the spectator forum told me that Guardman was Garland. Kind of awkward when I saw in the mafia chat that my buddies were considering Raising me (prior to Guardman's death)...
Yeah, I was hesitant to inform people of the existence of Raise, so discussion naturally would have occurred. A mistake on many counts.
Quote from AI »
So now that the game is over, what was in the message? Just what Guardman posted about him killing mafia-me as the SK twice?
I have it on good authority that the Phyrexians are going to win. However, Venser is then going to teleport the whole of New Phyrexia inside the Zendikar Hedrons, leaving the Phyrexians and Eldrazi trapped in an eternal struggle of the mechanics that nobody likes.
The next set will feature both infect and annihilator, and be called Maro'sWetDreamia. It will also feature a new Jace, to ensure that it sells well.
I still don't think I should've been forcibly replaced. I've heard and seen worse and it possibly affected the game. Felt like favoritism and like 'setting an example' work. That's my opinion, feel free to disagree.
While it was a bad decision that was made on both our parts, it's silly for you to think it was caused by favortism against you.
That being said, if you'll accept it, you have an auto /in on any game I create.
There was one post in Day One where MandersHex basically outed half the scum team by forgetting to list us as having resolved Attacks. The only non-mafia player she forgot was Arcadic, which led us to speculate that he was Garland. It's a good thing the town never picked up on that post.
I appreciate the kind words iLord has said, but I feel I made too many mistakes in this game. I'm sure I helped more than I hurt the game, but I did hurt the game some, and for that I apologize.
A player with access to the spectator forum told me that Guardman was Garland. Kind of awkward when I saw in the mafia chat that my buddies were considering Raising me (prior to Guardman's death)...
There was a similar situation with Cyan in Amistaria. I was freaking out when there was talk of resurrecting him. Should have just trusted DYH wouldn't have let that happen.
Thanks for the game, iLord and MandersHex! A very interesting setup, to be sure, and I hope to see more such creativity from you in the future!
I really had nothing to do with the creation process on this game, but thanks anyway.
Thanks, iLord, for giving me the opportunity to co-mod this with you. It definitely gave me an idea of how much work can go into just keeping a game going. You created a fantastic game, man. Very innovative, and while some players think it wasn't mafia as it should be, I don't think that detracted from the awesomeness of the game at all.
Because the mods are magic :p. (That certainly wasn't supposed to be there)
Oh, and @Keifru: There was that replacing in option thingy you spoke about back in Day3, I think. What was that?
Since I felt picking your class was a huge part of the appeal of the game, early in Day 1, we gave all replacing players the option to choose their class.
AMN YOU TIK I figured out you were scum around the same time you lied about Sleep.(how you used it twice in a row or something like that I forget now.)
Lied about sleep? I genuinely had it, and was telling the truth, both about blinking and being able to sleep. Which, no one doubted since Vezok said the same thing and flipped town, i had just gotten sleep the night before, and used it on guardman the night he died (since his odds of hitting scum or town were about 50-50.
The town seems as though it feels like the odds were stacked against it. While I agree with the whole only nightchat idea, I think that things were generally fairly even other then that. I don't know about other people on the scum team, but I felt like things could have turned ugly for us quickly if things would have been just a little different.
Also, I was pretty happy with the way that I played this game until I realized how badly I tunneled my bus pbpa. Believe it or not I was convinced that other people would read it and just see what I was talking about/vote tik. The reason that people were skeptical of the case didn't make sense to me until near the end of the game when I reread it.
Looking back, the town really should have made Guardman the scums' problem instead of helping them get rid of him. Minor point, but hindsight and all. It's funny, I caught falkonn and DYH after I was killed but not until then could I remove myself from the situation enough to see how bad they really were. Jskura I had pegged the whole time. Don't know whether I would have or wouldn't have named TIK if I was paying attention to how many players were in the game.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
@Guardman: I slept you because you were a threat to the town. I was convinced you were the Sk after Cyunni died. In my mind I was blocking a NK from scum. And that should be a good thing.
At the end I had jskura and falkon pegged as scum. I wasn't sure if TIK was scum.
I did not expect DYH to flip scum.
I was a threat to the town. But I wasn't the biggest threat to the town. In fact by sleeping me you increased the chances for the scum to win, while decreasing both my and the town's chances to win.
Though I will put it this way, at that point in time the town didn't have that good of a chance of winning.
Looking back, the town really should have made Guardman the scums' problem instead of helping them get rid of him. Minor point, but hindsight and all. It's funny, I caught falkonn and DYH after I was killed but not until then could I remove myself from the situation enough to see how bad they really were. Jskura I had pegged the whole time. Don't know whether I would have or wouldn't have named TIK if I was paying attention to how many players were in the game.
I think that was probably the best option, because I needed to scum hunt (specifically kill DYH) and the scum needed me dead. Really the only problem with that is without the double holies though I could probably just tank through the rest of the game gathering gold, buying Hi-Potions, and taking out threats.
I hate to say it, but I think the town's fate was sealed as soon as four town died in one night.
The biggest issue I saw with this setup early on was the ability for players to heal very, very significant portions of life. With the mafia able to coordinate, they were nearly unstoppable as an MMORPG cookie-cutter team of HEAL HEAL HEAL, TANK TANK TANK, and DPS DPS DPS.
The town was at a severe disadvantage because towns rarely ever coordinate.
this was my first game and im glad that i participated on this, after reading the setup i can see all the work that was done on it, and it was definitely awesome.
some random comments:
-scum team was incredible strong, i was seriously impressed by AI, DYH, talore, jsuka, TIK and falkonn. hell this is the whole team i learned tons! thanks guys.
-i felt this game was always on the hands of scum, the strongest and most active town players were usually wrong on their readings. in fact a big part of the late game was just the bus fight between TIK and falkonn, and i dont remember town participating on this duel.
-i could see we losing because of shinen bad play, after pooling an insane amount of money to but the holy in a stick. thankfully jsuka replaced and did an incredible job flying under the radar. i cant actually explain how he did it, but he did not lurk, and somehow did come under much fire despite not posting much content. i wish i knew how to play like that. certainly the MVN (most valuable noobie) of the game.
-when TIK replaced in i was afraid he was not that good of a player, i hated how he pushed my wagon forward when i felt i was starting to crawl my way back into the game. in hindsight i can see it helping cement town status of scum team. but i still feel it was a bit too much, most of time my wagon consisted mainly of my teamates.
-i consider TIK one of the stronger players right now, not only by his play here, but ive seen he do amazing things on two other games. certainly one of the big guys here.
-sucked that i died too fast, my hp was kinda high when i travelled on carnival, but when i came back i died before doing at least my last attack.
- vezo randomly sleeping DYH greatly screwed our plans. AI death was unexpected too. those were the only brief moments i felt scum victory was threatened.
-it was obvious AE was a thief, it was amuzing reading on the QT everyone talking about hitting him again and again because they imagined he was being blinked.
-how the raise spell was too strong TIK? it could be useful for town, but scum could not use it profitably, if AI was ressurected, on next day everyone would just attack him again (including scumteam of course) so he would die instantly. big waste of action and MP. i still wanted to see it though, only for the lulz factor
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
-how the raise spell was too strong TIK? it could be useful for town, but scum could not use it profitably, if AI was ressurected, on next day everyone would just attack him again (including scumteam of course) so he would die instantly. big waste of action and MP. i still wanted to see it though, only for the lulz factor
My opinion (with ovviously, not enough planning on the game mechanics) was that yes, it would use a lot of MP, but with a known scum revived, and buddies using potions (probably would have worked better if we lost a scum later), we could essentially tie the town's day actions, and allow the mafia to do as they please in day and night. I just thought it would be a huge tempo loss for the town, is all.
I agree that you shouldn't have been replaced for the sake of upholding my statement. Favoritism, though, is an odd accusation to use here - we certainly weren't biased against you. If anything, we were more hesitant to act because you hadn't shown any disruptive behavior prior.
Alright, that's fair. I just hope you're more willing to rethink serious mod action like that in the future, or at least give a warning first. That was my impression when I was replaced, and though I'm glad you aren't actually biased against me, someone else in my position may feel the same way and not give you the chance to explain.
-it was obvious AE was a thief, it was amuzing reading on the QT everyone talking about hitting him again and again because they imagined he was being blinked.
Except my spell didnt hit AE. You know, that Holy on a stick I had
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
I played so horribly this game. Coordination was super important in this game and while scum had day and night talk, town had a hard time trying to stop arguing with each other, I do have to say my semi-lynch was absolutely horrible though. Great set-up though and cool idea :).
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That last day, the town accepted that there could be 3 or 4 scum left. Yet they went under the assumption that there was only 3. This was so wrong on so many levels. If you're up against and unknown factor, imo, you should always be prepared for the worst.
Not that it would have had any effect on this game, but you should know it for future games.
I played so horribly this game. Coordination was super important in this game and while scum had day and night talk, town had a hard time trying to stop arguing with each other, I do have to say my semi-lynch was absolutely horrible though. Great set-up though and cool idea :).
And there I was trying to save you. How nice of me.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
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The GJ way path to no lynching:
jskura's comment actually got me digging through my inbox. Action pending.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Archmage Eternal, Lv7 Ninja (Hero of Light) and Keifru, Lv6 White Wizard (Hero of Light) have conceded.
The game is now over with the Forces of Evil victorious! Congratulations to AsianInvasion, DRey, falkonn, The Ice King, DYH, and jskura. Information on setup/actions/scumQT forthcoming.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
- The first part is simply the first few posts of the game thread, the middle part is the role information and distribution, and the bottom green text is just setup notes from when I was refining the setup.
Mafia QuickTopic
Actions Spreadsheet
- Feel free to ask if you have any questions about anything on here.
Anyone interested in looking at the spectator forum (there's not too much of interest there), should send a email address we can invite to either Manders or I.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Ok, now that that's over and done with:
While the idea had promise, here's what I believe should have been done differently:
1) Players choosing role after they find out their alignment
2) Players knowing at least the range of damage that they do with their attacks. We were more or less lynching blind on multiple accounts (randomness to damage + having no idea how much damage we do in the first place). Mafia had the ability to share dealt damage for role hints
3) As I said much earlier, the entire shift of power in this game was destined to be town->mafia due to the way cash/items worked with no new sources of inflow
More to probably come later.
I considered this but decided that allowing the mafia to choose their roles afterwards would slant the role distribution. The game would run better with the more even distribution of roles we found here.
A lot of players guessed that they would deal damage equal to the sum of the appropriate modifiers and they weren't to far off - I merely multiplied the damage dealt by a random modified between 0.75 and 1.25.
I felt this was necessary because I was incredibly concerned over how accountable the mafia would have to be if the town could precisely calculate everything. Once the town figured out how much each player could deal, any sort of renegade action could be too dangerous for scum players. I also believe that the random dogpiling we saw was preferable to tedious calculations so that every last point of damage was used optimally - I didn't want to game to drag because of the mechanical intricacy.
Fundamentally the shift of power was only limited in that it shifted towards the players who were successfully killing other players. The mafia had the advantage in that they could coordinate and had the combo attack, but the town had far larger capacity to deal damage. Ordinarily, I felt the momentum could have benefited either side, depending on the town's success during the day.
The reason the balance shifted so quickly and irreversibly towards the mafia was twofold. The first was that the early days gave the town very little information, much less than I anticipated. The fiasco with Heartwork and RisingPhoenix was a easy behavioral smokescreen for the scum to hide behind, and neither player claimed before death (In fact, it seems like there was a noticeable lack of claims coming from dying townies. I had imagined the town would have a very good idea of what each class's capabilities were towards the endgame, yet in this case, the town still knew very little. It would be interesting to hear from some townies as to why they didn't claim before their "lynch"). The town was unable to efficiently narrow down their suspects (after DRey), and their firepower ended up being spread too thin and towards the wrong people.
The second reason was that the mafia pulled a mechanical risk to get some serious firepower early on. Their machinations to acquire Aeria's Maul were uninterrupted and they were able to hold on to the weapon for the entire game. I don't believe it was unduly overpowered in the hands of the mafia (There were a multitude of ways it could have come back to bite them), but the design of the weapon itself was probably too swingy.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
The former proved to a significant challenge each night - we tried our best to resolve everything accurately, and aside from a few hiccups, I think we did a passable job considering the complicated mechanics. Much thanks to Manders, who provided invaluable help all over the place: dealing with day attacks, putting up vote counts, typing up night actions, etc.
The less mechanical aspects of my moderation, however, I felt was far from satisfactory. At the beginning of the game, I was a little concerned over the manner in which the players were treating each other. Perhaps it was because I hadn't played for a while and was merely unaccustomed to the expected behavior; regardless, Manders told me it was fine. A crescendo in concerning behavior (and assurance that I was not delusional from Manders), however, compelled me to make this post, in which I condemned Heartwork's post and made my ultimatum. A few posts later, it appeared that I would be forced to act upon it. At the time, Manders and I were unsure of what action to take. Cyan and other players on the Spectator forum cautioned us against replacing, while Azrael and Arimnaes felt that replacing was justifiable. In the end, I decided that Zionite and poggydude's actions were in clear violation of my conditions, and I acted.
In hindsight, however, it was clear that my choice was incorrect. There's a fundamental difference between the behavior that I was concerned about and that of poggydude and Zionite. The former was characterized by continual purposeless insults. The latter was an expression of genuine anger and frustration. Replacing the two players was not only unfair to the them, it also ended up hurting the game later on; we were under the impression that we had more than enough replacements, but ended up one short with MMOD. This is an apology to both poggydude and Zionite. Zionite mentioned that contrition now can't change the fact that he was cheated of the time he invested, and he's absolutely right. But since the action we took was unfortunately irreversible, I can offer nothing but my aid should either ever want and require it.
To end on a brighter note, I hope everyone involved managed to have fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the setup - we invested a sizable portion of our time attempting to balance it, and, as of now, I'm of the opinion we did a fair job. I think the town's mislynches warranted their loss, Garland's sneakiness warranted how close he got to winning, and the mafia's under-the-radar play and excellent night action choices warranted their victory.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Day Talk was incredibly powerful ability for the mafia to have. At night, the mafia had the clear advantage of coordinating attacks, while with any luck, the town would have the advantage at day were people were held accountable. I felt by giving us day talk, you took away the town's advantage in the daytime.
To the town: I feel that a night claim would have been incredibly useful, as while you couldn't account for the combo attack, you could take into account anything else. There wasn't really a super class (although the White mage seemed the strongest at lvl 10, imo) that you should have been scared of revealing yourselves. Only towards the end, when our white mage learned resurrect, did we fear a specific class.
I also felt Resurrect was far too powerful for the game, mafia or town. Fortunately, we won without it, but I see that as being incredibly swingy, despite not having weapons.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
That's a good point. The original intent for daytalk was to allow the mafia to coordinate and snipe important players/items during the day. That's probably an advantage the mafia didn't need to have.
For those who haven't read the setup, we're talking about the spell Raise, that the White Wizard could learn at Level 8, which could revive a player from the dead once per game at the cost of 30 MP. I actually believe that including that spell was a mistake, although not for the reasons you believe.
The spell's actual effectiveness is questionable, since its really more of a "win-more" spell. Any faction that can afford to spend a night and 30 MP reviving a player to half health with alignment revealed and no equipment must be in the lead. It is especially useless for the mafia, since the time it buys is not worth the 30 MP and action - the town could conceivably protect and equip the player they raise, although more often than not it would be a poor allocation of time and resources.
What was more regrettable about the spell was that its existence sort of prevented us giving dead players any information about the setup. I know more than one occasion we had to refuse a fallen player's request (or a live player's in Guardman's case - you'll forgive us for never actually forwarding your message to AI). I completely didn't consider that when I kept the spell in there, and the disadvantages certainly outweigh the simple "wow-factor" it provides.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Sure, the scum usually have more information, but this game felt like a 5 year old vs. the CIA in who could catch Bin-Laden faster. The scum had all the resources, and the town was so in the dark about everything.
The biggest issue the town ended up facing was itself. When i was killed, i was about to post if i should heal myself or just give the potion to someone trustworthy. Attacking without consent of the town as town is just so degrading and wasteful. Seriously, the moment i saw my killer was town, i knew the town had no chance.
I do think the setup was a nice change of pace, but day 1 just killed most of the enthusiasm i could have towards this game. I would love to see it tweaked and re-balanced and run again sometime in the future.
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Also despite what people may think I thought I did a good job as the SK. I think what hurt me the most was the town. Honestly I think if you guys had listened to me and killed DYH my chances of winning would've skyrocketed.
Also one thing about my skill Dominate. I honestly think the cost was too high. With the ten HP reduction I could only really use it when I was sure I was going to win with it. Elsewise if I used it too early it set me up for a weak late game, but if I used it during the endgame it would probably either be a winmore or a lose quicker proposition. If it only dealt me ten damage instead of reducing my total HP I think it would've been a much better skill and one that I could actually use without worrying about it weakening me too much.
Overall good game. I really enjoyed being the SK here.
I agree that you shouldn't have been replaced for the sake of upholding my statement. Favoritism, though, is an odd accusation to use here - we certainly weren't biased against you. If anything, we were more hesitant to act because you hadn't shown any disruptive behavior prior.
Spewing info indiscriminately would have been a mistake. Not getting claims from townies who were going down is one as well. Since the mafia can freely exchange info, they would likely already have a working idea with what each class is capable of - the town remained unnecessarily in the dark the entire game.
There's always going to be people who are convinced the majority is being led astray. This wouldn't have been as bad if not for the fact that most (all?) rogue attacks ended up being made against townies. Realistically, however, this isn't particular to this game: any situation in which errant townies both refuse to listen the majority and have incorrect reads is going to end up hurting the town.
I wasn't sure how to balance it, so I erred on the side of caution - it's better to have many marginal options than a single disruptive one. I think you can agree that it's certainly very powerful - maybe it too should have been limited to one use per game?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
The main problem with it is I would be very wary to use it more than once. And I am very wary to use it even once. Unlike the scum I am alone and my HP is by far my most precious commodity. Plus the other problem is that if I use it and my target dies I just wasted 10 HP for nothing. While it is powerful there is way too much downside for me to even consider it unless I was absolutely sure. As such I kind of felt it was useless because the risk and weakening wasn't worth the reward.
Also I would like to point out that this is the second game as SK where the following has happened.
1. I am scum.
2. AI attacks me Day 1.
3. I kill AI during the night.
4. AI was scum.
As soon as I saw this I laughed so hard.
I didn't make myself clear - I was proposing to exchange the HP penalty for a once-per-game restriction.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Ah, okay. Yeah that would've worked way better. Plus it would incentive me to use it.
With that said i fully expect an auto in to ff mafia 2... not really although i wouldnt mind it
I'll take credit for pushing that plan through to fruition.
There was one post in Day One where MandersHex basically outed half the scum team by forgetting to list us as having resolved Attacks. The only non-mafia player she forgot was Arcadic, which led us to speculate that he was Garland. It's a good thing the town never picked up on that post.
I think forcibly replacing them was a bit too rash. I would have given a final warning at the point that you replaced them, and then kicked them out if they continued to act that way.
A player with access to the spectator forum told me that Guardman was Garland. Kind of awkward when I saw in the mafia chat that my buddies were considering Raising me (prior to Guardman's death)...
So now that the game is over, what was in the message? Just what Guardman posted about him killing mafia-me as the SK twice?
I guess it's just your playstyle, but you were scummy in Indiana Jones and you were scummy here. It was your ridiculous role (accompanied by a Mythril Hammer) that let you live so long in this game, not your play. But you made it pretty close regardless, so I have to give you some props for that. It's a good thing too, since your scumminess distracted from my buddies.
I was not amused.
In the end, I think the scum just plain outplayed the town. Sure, the setup helped us quite a bit, and Guardman was a huge distraction at just the right time, but considering that only one mafioso ever got "lynched," and none NK'd by town, that speaks volumes. Good work, red team!
Thanks for the game, iLord and MandersHex! A very interesting setup, to be sure, and I hope to see more such creativity from you in the future!
That is awkward.
Basically.
My playstyle always puts me on the edge of being town and scum. It's actually why I think I do better with neutral roles than others as I am never so town that the scum want to lynch me and I am rarely scum enough with them that I get lynched. In fact I think Vezo won the scum the game. Him sleeping me when he did prevented me from killing DYH (I lied about the healing stuff). It also prevented me from buying another Hi-Potion. With DYH dead it would at least take me away from being scum. And without Vezo's sleep there wouldn't be as much reason to think I am Garland. After that I actually had most of the scum team down (falkonn was the only one I was unsure about and when Keifru screwed up I was sure he was scum). So I could kill them off at my leasure (in fact I didn't realize that your white mage was so powerful, which is what in that case could trip me up as I figured he was best for blinking and healing so I was probably going to save him for last as I could get past blinks).
I was.
The town was pretty bad. After the start of the game it seemed to pretty much come down to me vs. The Scum.
Obviously Shinen blinked Drey night one, which bought the scum a ton of time since attacks had to be wasted day 2.
When I came in, saw what I had (after a quick clarification from Manders), I figured I had to lay as low as I possibly could without seeming like I was lurking, since that maul was almost 200gil. Of course, the other fun thing was when TIK used haste on me, allowing me to throw 2 holies at Guardman.
Speaking of which, I think you did an excellent job GM. We didnt have you pegged until real late in the game. For a while (as you can see in the scumchat), we had Cyouni pegged for a couple reasons.
Fun fact!
I had suggested that we might want to look at trying to kill both towns on what would have been the last night. After I calculated the combo cost, it would have equaled 144% of our health each. Needless to say, that idea was scrapped quick.
I think that was Altseal. It was obvious to my that after I died then Altseal died DYH was scum. No way he would live that far as town.
DAMN YOU TIK I figured out you were scum around the same time you lied about Sleep.(how you used it twice in a row or something like that I forget now.)
I was infuriated how the town could not handle not attacking without majority consensuses. I'm disappointed in peoples incompetence and that was really the largest factor leading to the town's destruction.
I only had half of it.
I'm happy that you were town.
I would have felt really bad if I had healed you and you had been Scum.
The town losing MMOD out of no where hurt also.
I was sad the night I got killed.
The attack did like double my max health(I was full at the time).
I choose my role simply so I could roleblock the other players I didn't trust with their roles.
If I got to chose again I would go with a role with more health.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
@Guardman: I slept you because you were a threat to the town. I was convinced you were the Sk after Cyunni died. In my mind I was blocking a NK from scum. And that should be a good thing.
At the end I had jskura and falkon pegged as scum. I wasn't sure if TIK was scum.
I did not expect DYH to flip scum.
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That one disappointed me.
And a list of all my spell available (found it funny that I had 2 instances of Holy)
Cure - 4 - Target player recovers a few Hit Points (+2 Bonus).
Blink - 8 - (Instant Spell) Target other player cannot be targeted by spells or attacks tonight. This spell is only successful if you are not targeted by spells or attacks tonight.
Vox - 6 - Removes Silence from target player.
Esuna - 6 - Removes Poison from target player.
Silence - 10 - Target player is Silenced. That player cannot cast spells. Silence can be healed by Vox.
Curaga - 14 - Target player recovers a lot of Hit Points (+8 Bonus).
Blindna - 6 - Removes Blind from target player.
Rise - 30 - Target dead player returns to life with half of their max Hit Points and Magic Points at the beginning of the following day. You may only use this once per game.
Curaja - 22 - (Instant Spell) Target player recovers all of his or her lost Hit Points.
Holy - 30 - Deals massive damage to target player (+20 Bonus).
Holy - 0 - Deals massive damage to target player (+20 Bonus).
That was certainly unfortunate. Luckily for us, since Arcadic was town, there was no way for either faction to capitalize upon it.
Yeah, I was hesitant to inform people of the existence of Raise, so discussion naturally would have occurred. A mistake on many counts.
Yep.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Oh, and @Keifru: There was that replacing in option thingy you spoke about back in Day3, I think. What was that?
Overall, I enjoyed the game. My only problem was that I kinda started a day after everyone else.
While it was a bad decision that was made on both our parts, it's silly for you to think it was caused by favortism against you.
That being said, if you'll accept it, you have an auto /in on any game I create.
Well, same offer to you.
I appreciate the kind words iLord has said, but I feel I made too many mistakes in this game. I'm sure I helped more than I hurt the game, but I did hurt the game some, and for that I apologize.
There was a similar situation with Cyan in Amistaria. I was freaking out when there was talk of resurrecting him. Should have just trusted DYH wouldn't have let that happen.
I really had nothing to do with the creation process on this game, but thanks anyway.
I'll have to check that, as I cannot recall.
Thanks, iLord, for giving me the opportunity to co-mod this with you. It definitely gave me an idea of how much work can go into just keeping a game going. You created a fantastic game, man. Very innovative, and while some players think it wasn't mafia as it should be, I don't think that detracted from the awesomeness of the game at all.
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Because the mods are magic :p. (That certainly wasn't supposed to be there)
Since I felt picking your class was a huge part of the appeal of the game, early in Day 1, we gave all replacing players the option to choose their class.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Lied about sleep? I genuinely had it, and was telling the truth, both about blinking and being able to sleep. Which, no one doubted since Vezok said the same thing and flipped town, i had just gotten sleep the night before, and used it on guardman the night he died (since his odds of hitting scum or town were about 50-50.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Also, I was pretty happy with the way that I played this game until I realized how badly I tunneled my bus pbpa. Believe it or not I was convinced that other people would read it and just see what I was talking about/vote tik. The reason that people were skeptical of the case didn't make sense to me until near the end of the game when I reread it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
I was a threat to the town. But I wasn't the biggest threat to the town. In fact by sleeping me you increased the chances for the scum to win, while decreasing both my and the town's chances to win.
Though I will put it this way, at that point in time the town didn't have that good of a chance of winning.
I think that was probably the best option, because I needed to scum hunt (specifically kill DYH) and the scum needed me dead. Really the only problem with that is without the double holies though I could probably just tank through the rest of the game gathering gold, buying Hi-Potions, and taking out threats.
I hate to say it, but I think the town's fate was sealed as soon as four town died in one night.
Was I really the only person who healed town? :uh:
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
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The town was at a severe disadvantage because towns rarely ever coordinate.
Had a blast, loved the game idea and mechanics.
Daytalk overpowered.
Still, feel like we earned the victory and outplayed the town.
Guardman picked the wrong scum to pick a fight with.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
some random comments:
-scum team was incredible strong, i was seriously impressed by AI, DYH, talore, jsuka, TIK and falkonn. hell this is the whole team i learned tons! thanks guys.
-i felt this game was always on the hands of scum, the strongest and most active town players were usually wrong on their readings. in fact a big part of the late game was just the bus fight between TIK and falkonn, and i dont remember town participating on this duel.
-i could see we losing because of shinen bad play, after pooling an insane amount of money to but the holy in a stick. thankfully jsuka replaced and did an incredible job flying under the radar. i cant actually explain how he did it, but he did not lurk, and somehow did come under much fire despite not posting much content. i wish i knew how to play like that. certainly the MVN (most valuable noobie) of the game.
-when TIK replaced in i was afraid he was not that good of a player, i hated how he pushed my wagon forward when i felt i was starting to crawl my way back into the game. in hindsight i can see it helping cement town status of scum team. but i still feel it was a bit too much, most of time my wagon consisted mainly of my teamates.
-i consider TIK one of the stronger players right now, not only by his play here, but ive seen he do amazing things on two other games. certainly one of the big guys here.
-sucked that i died too fast, my hp was kinda high when i travelled on carnival, but when i came back i died before doing at least my last attack.
- vezo randomly sleeping DYH greatly screwed our plans. AI death was unexpected too. those were the only brief moments i felt scum victory was threatened.
-it was obvious AE was a thief, it was amuzing reading on the QT everyone talking about hitting him again and again because they imagined he was being blinked.
-how the raise spell was too strong TIK? it could be useful for town, but scum could not use it profitably, if AI was ressurected, on next day everyone would just attack him again (including scumteam of course) so he would die instantly. big waste of action and MP. i still wanted to see it though, only for the lulz factor
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Still confused how you lived after Guardman turned up SK. It was a pretty obvious SK vs. Scum fight you guys had.
Guardman: "I KNOW DYH IS SCUM!"
Someone else: "Why?"
Guardman: "Because I'm the seri... I mean, he just is scum."
My opinion (with ovviously, not enough planning on the game mechanics) was that yes, it would use a lot of MP, but with a known scum revived, and buddies using potions (probably would have worked better if we lost a scum later), we could essentially tie the town's day actions, and allow the mafia to do as they please in day and night. I just thought it would be a huge tempo loss for the town, is all.
By the way, you flatter me. =)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Alright, that's fair. I just hope you're more willing to rethink serious mod action like that in the future, or at least give a warning first. That was my impression when I was replaced, and though I'm glad you aren't actually biased against me, someone else in my position may feel the same way and not give you the chance to explain.
Except my spell didnt hit AE. You know, that Holy on a stick I had
Yeah, Archmage Eternal was blinked by Keifru on Night 3, saving his life from jskura's Holy.
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That last day, the town accepted that there could be 3 or 4 scum left. Yet they went under the assumption that there was only 3. This was so wrong on so many levels. If you're up against and unknown factor, imo, you should always be prepared for the worst.
Not that it would have had any effect on this game, but you should know it for future games.
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