Interesting...Where up to this point has Eco accused me of being scummy? Did i miss something past his line of questioning?
You're lurking quite a bit, and then throwing out some pretty empty accusations when you do post with no backup. What gives?
Quote from Ecophagy »
I see. For the record, this is not true - people do sometimes stick a naked vote on someone they want to die.
I agree. However, it's usually in a situation where it's a hammer vote, not the second or third vote on a young wagon.
Quote from Ecophagy »
If you think Poggy is town, why did you use the word "excuse" - it is clearly a very accusatory word with negative connotations.
It absolutely does carry negative connotations. This is because the way poggy plays the game is, in my opinion, pretty terrible. He does nothing but play the 'crazy' card non-stop, which really only succeeds in getting him overlooked for being crazy. It doesn't help the town scum-hunt at all. It would admittedly be a decent way to play as scum, I suppose, but trying to pin that on him now is too hard without just claiming WIFOM.
...Hence my prodding on him to give me an answer on why he voted in the manner he did. But we've pretty much killed any hope of getting an answer out of him now, haven't we?
If you think Poggy is town, why did you use the word "excuse" - it is clearly a very accusatory word with negative connotations.
Quote from Ecophagy »
In addition, why did you bother asking if you believe all naked votes to be solely used to apply pressure/get reasctions?
For the same reasons you're grilling others and myself; gauging reactions.
This is still a contradiction - Poggy can't be ignored by all and induce Vez to claim.
You know how Poggy plays, and how hes taken by others. Now appearently Vez tends to throw his role out there. I found that out in our last game. So its not so much a contradiction. You should know where I'm coming from.
This post is bad. Please explain what about ZDS' defence placated you so absolutely. I want a good answer because you've made me agree with Vezok.
Nothing about it placated me "absolutely". Nothing really could at this point in the game; there are merely lesser and greater degrees of suspicion. It lowered my suspicion of ZDS because it remained calm and analytical in tone.
Unfortunately, that leaves me with few immediate scum leads. The most active players have well-reasoned contributions. The only one among them I mislike is Emo, and that's primarily a matter of tone rather than content.
You are set on voting one of EP or me. Why?
Do you believe (at least) one of us has to be scum, and if so, what makes you think this?
I'm not set on voting anyone. I couldn't be; there's not going to be enough evidence at this point in the game to condemn anyone with certainty. At the time, you and EP had the posts that caught my attention the most - you for content, EP for tone. The former has resolved (for now). The latter is still present, but not sufficient to draw a vote from me at this point.
Interesting...Where up to this point has Eco accused me of being scummy? Did i miss something past his line of questioning?
You're lurking quite a bit, and then throwing out some pretty empty accusations when you do post with no backup. What gives?
I agree. However, it's usually in a situation where it's a hammer vote, not the second or third vote on a young wagon.
It absolutely does carry negative connotations. This is because the way poggy plays the game is, in my opinion, pretty terrible. He does nothing but play the 'crazy' card non-stop, which really only succeeds in getting him overlooked for being crazy. It doesn't help the town scum-hunt at all. It would admittedly be a decent way to play as scum, I suppose, but trying to pin that on him now is too hard without just claiming WIFOM.
...Hence my prodding on him to give me an answer on why he voted in the manner he did. But we've pretty much killed any hope of getting an answer out of him now, haven't we?
If you think Poggy is town, why did you use the word "excuse" - it is clearly a very accusatory word with negative connotations.
For the same reasons you're grilling others and myself; gauging reactions.
--->DJ
You're responses are scummy. For example you defended every single thing Eco attacked you for. One was the use of a word.
If you were town you wouldn't be so interested in what people think about you.
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Nothing about it placated me "absolutely". Nothing really could at this point in the game; there are merely lesser and greater degrees of suspicion. It lowered my suspicion of ZDS because it remained calm and analytical in tone.
Unfortunately, that leaves me with few immediate scum leads. The most active players have well-reasoned contributions. The only one among them I mislike is Emo, and that's primarily a matter of tone rather than content.
I'm not set on voting anyone. I couldn't be; there's not going to be enough evidence at this point in the game to condemn anyone with certainty. At the time, you and EP had the posts that caught my attention the most - you for content, EP for tone. The former has resolved (for now). The latter is still present, but not sufficient to draw a vote from me at this point.
Alright, perhaps "absolutely" was the wrong word, but by it I meant "enough to induce an unvote". Why do you feel that being calm and analytical is a town tell? How has ZDS' tone absolved him of his content?
Alright, perhaps "absolutely" was the wrong word, but by it I meant "enough to induce an unvote". Why do you feel that being calm and analytical is a town tell?
I think being calm and analytical under pressure is a town tell. Do you think it isn't? Or are you saying there isn't enough pressure on ZDS for it to be a good read?
I think being calm and analytical under pressure is a town tell. Do you think it isn't? Or are you saying there isn't enough pressure on ZDS for it to be a good read?
You didn't answer my question - why is being calm and analytical a town tell?
Interesting...Where up to this point has Eco accused me of being scummy? Did i miss something past his line of questioning?
You're lurking quite a bit, and then throwing out some pretty empty accusations when you do post with no backup. What gives?
I agree. However, it's usually in a situation where it's a hammer vote, not the second or third vote on a young wagon.
It absolutely does carry negative connotations. This is because the way poggy plays the game is, in my opinion, pretty terrible. He does nothing but play the 'crazy' card non-stop, which really only succeeds in getting him overlooked for being crazy. It doesn't help the town scum-hunt at all. It would admittedly be a decent way to play as scum, I suppose, but trying to pin that on him now is too hard without just claiming WIFOM.
...Hence my prodding on him to give me an answer on why he voted in the manner he did. But we've pretty much killed any hope of getting an answer out of him now, haven't we?
If you think Poggy is town, why did you use the word "excuse" - it is clearly a very accusatory word with negative connotations.
For the same reasons you're grilling others and myself; gauging reactions.
--->DJ
This post is terrible.
Lurking? Really? Four days into a game and on a holiday weekend, no less?
I also do not care for the underlined sentence at the bottom; feels like an attempt to empathize with the attacker. Dislike it greatly.
Ecophagy, on the other hand, is playing entirely different from how he did in Conflux where I felt (and) he was scum because he was so aloof.
Vez, your posts so far have been one saying that you're fence-sitting because you don't like the wagons, a one-word 'What?" reply, and then you attack me, ut you vote Arachnid.
Answer me this...why did you do that, only to finally vote me after you got someone else to agree with your post and vote me first?
Anyway...
Poggy, I'm still interested in what's making you tick here. What was your motivation behind jumping on the AE wagon after Emo's vote? You still haven't explained where you see him "basically claiming scum".
Your smug little response here is pretty amusing. You're missing the major point of the argument (pick one, you're straw-manning or cherry-picking), which was that you accused someone of lurking four days into a game. Furthermore,
Your smug little response here is pretty amusing. You're missing the major point of the argument (pick one, you're straw-manning or cherry-picking), which was that you accused someone of lurking four days into a game.
Tell me its off-base. You called me out for, amongst other things, going at Vez for lurking when it's a holiday weekend. He's from another country and then confirms that he's not celebrating a holiday.
Question for you on this line...why would you include the bit about the holiday to begin with? You've switched over to calling me out over the definition of 'lurking' here, now suggesting he isn't lurking. Why does the holiday play into it if you don't think he actually is lurking? It's a contradiction.
My feeling here is you're jumping on me and using whatever you can to attack with. I'd love to hear if I'm wrong.
you called someone on it [lurking] who had posted each of the last three days.
I'm calling him out on lurking because he's one of the lightest posters here, and has posted next to no content at all. (I sort-of summarized it that post back to him, but I can PBPA all vez content if you really want. Or reread the game to this point...there's not much there.)
until things got rolling toward me in the last few pages.
You have a legitimate question to vezok in your last post, though.
I do, and I'm really interested in an answer. Please note that I'm not in any way suggesting he doesn't have a reason or right to make a case against me; I'm suggesting that the combination of the light posting and the sudden attack while voting someone else didn't really suggest a strong base to begin from. After that, waiting for someone else to actually add content and then barning that vote seemed to be pretty suspect.
The fact you avoided any discussion around my empathizing comment, however, leads me to believe I'm 100% correct, there.
Sorry...I missed that part the first time through. I'll address it head-on, though. Empathy with anyone was not the point there, and really didn't matter at all anyway. Eco wanted to know why I used that term, and I told him. It was important to point out clearly why I was doing what I was doing, because I was on record of seeing Poggy as town, yet still grilling him. I wanted to get a reaction.
It seemed Eco was doing the same thing to me with that line of questioning, so I called it out. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Eco was suspecting me of anything there, and he also had multiple lines in the water, so to speak, on other players for other reasons.
It's the same thing Vez actually admitted to doing as well a few posts back. It's what ZDS' early pressure is for. It's what poggy's 'crazy' is for. This is kinda what town is supposed to do to find an open line to work.
It was pretty clear that the AE wagon was not going anywhere by the time I posted why I voted. Any pressure AE would have felt by a couple of quick votes disappears by an equal number of people speaking out against the wagon. That is why I don't mind admitting what I was thinking.
You had 3 speaking for, and 2 against, with only 2 people posting and ignoring the situation. Doesn't seem anywhere close to "going nowhere" to me.
Just look at my motivation to tell you. Do you really think that I could just stall and then dump the same reasoning in my own defense? That makes less sense than admitting it up front, and I'm certainly not a player people let say "I have reasons I don't want to post yet". I obviously knew how I might come across, but I felt it was still worth pursuing - which is also a silly perspective as scum.
You act like this was all very well thought out and planned, when I'm basically arguing the opposite. I think you quickly jumped on an "easy" Archmage Eternal wagon (I know he's not new, but he's not an exceptional player either), and then shortly after I voted you, looked back and realized how it looked. And then tried to explain it away.
Also, ZDS and AE both have a clear outs by turning attention towards the AE wagon, especially since AE never voted and ZDS said "the scummiest so far" in his reasoning. Any potential gain between the two was already lost.
Neither of them posted between your vote and your reasoning. If those outs were there, they were there when you made your vote.
Anyway, the AE wagon "sucks" no more than any page 1~2 wagon. Other than to extend the RVS stage, there is no real point in saying a three-man wagon "sucks". So I don't quite understand what went through his head.
The speed is not what made it suck, but it was what made it a wagon, and therefore it was a wagon worth ending.
@anyone who thinks my vote was bad: It was still the random voting stage. What more were you expecting? AE at this point was the scummiest player, relatively speaking. Objectively speaking he wasn't that scummy, but no one was.
@guardman- you can only assume half of that(dont be a smartass you know what half)
Unvote
Vote Poggydude
Unvote
Vote ZDS
You are really trying my patience. Why won't you just answer my question? Also I don't know which half, but I am guessing that you are making this all up half.
Honestly I'm not sure if you are scum or just being stubborn town.
Why would I need to jump on AE?
This is the sort of criticism you point at bandwagonners. Not at wagon-starters, much less the ones who start wagons during RVS.
You didn't need to, but you wanted to, by the very fact that you did start AE's wagon for such weak reasons.
Also I feel that it is perfectly applicable to point it at wagon starters, even at the RVS.
Tell me its off-base. You called me out for, amongst other things, going at Vez for lurking when it's a holiday weekend. He's from another country and then confirms that he's not celebrating a holiday.
Question for you on this line...why would you include the bit about the holiday to begin with? You've switched over to calling me out over the definition of 'lurking' here, now suggesting he isn't lurking. Why does the holiday play into it if you don't think he actually is lurking? It's a contradiction.
Lurking? Really? Four days into a game and on a holiday weekend, no less?
I very clearly called you out for attacking someone on the charge of lurking. I expressed disbelief at such a charge. Then I noted it is four days into a game, and with that, it being a holiday weekend no less. One is clearly more important than the other, as the other is an additional qualifier. I have changed nothing, here; the stress of importance is pretty obvious.
Vezok then brought it to my attention (not me directly, but in stating) that he had posted every game day - which is true. There is no contradiction here - calling someone out for lurking four days into a game is ridiculous, even moreso when that player has posted every day.
I didn't look to see that Vezok lives in Romania, although I do recall noting that now when being shocked over his misplay in my Amistarian game; was thinking more about the fact that, you know, I live in the US and it's a holiday here.
Quote from DJC »
My feeling here is you're jumping on me and using whatever you can to attack with. I'd love to hear if I'm wrong.
I'm jumping on you because you made a terrible accusation. You trying to discredit me via poor arguments isn't helping how I feel about you.
Quote from DJC »
I'm calling him out on lurking because he's one of the lightest posters here, and has posted next to no content at all. (I sort-of summarized it that post back to him, but I can PBPA all vez content if you really want. Or reread the game to this point...there's not much there.)
until things got rolling toward me in the last few pages.
Oh, so now it's "lightest poster". So you realize the lurking charge is BS, and now you're trying to semantics your way out of it? Not buying it.
Quote from DJC »
I do, and I'm really interested in an answer. Please note that I'm not in any way suggesting he doesn't have a reason or right to make a case against me; I'm suggesting that the combination of the light posting and the sudden attack while voting someone else didn't really suggest a strong base to begin from. After that, waiting for someone else to actually add content and then barning that vote seemed to be pretty suspect.
I don't have an issue with the latter part of your comment here, I still think the lurking/light content bit is terrible, and modified from it's earlier form to seem less awful than it was originally since I called you on it.
Quote from DJC »
Sorry...I missed that part the first time through. I'll address it head-on, though. Empathy with anyone was not the point there, and really didn't matter at all anyway. Eco wanted to know why I used that term, and I told him. It was important to point out clearly why I was doing what I was doing, because I was on record of seeing Poggy as town, yet still grilling him. I wanted to get a reaction.
It seemed Eco was doing the same thing to me with that line of questioning, so I called it out. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Eco was suspecting me of anything there, and he also had multiple lines in the water, so to speak, on other players for other reasons.
Why did you feel the need to phrase it that way is the question; my best guess is that you feel if you make it out to be you're doing what Eco's doing, he'll stop giving you grief.
Quote from DJC »
It's the same thing Vez actually admitted to doing as well a few posts back. It's what ZDS' early pressure is for. It's what poggy's 'crazy' is for. This is kinda what town is supposed to do to find an open line to work.
--->DJ
Right; but medium-sized creatures don't feel the need to tell everyone they're medium-sized creatures. It's kind of understood.
@guardman- i feel like we are still halfway in the rvs, so just calm down
Wait what?
Are you saying that your vote and your responses to me was all because you think we are still in the "rvs" even though we left the rvs a long time ago.
I challenge you to prove that me saying "I had reasons, these are what they are" and you saying "I don't believe you" does not put me into the position of defending a "nu-uh" case. I've been as clear as I can be, and we're starting to go into circles. You chose to not believe me. There's nothing I can do at this point to turn that around.
You had 3 speaking for, and 2 against, with only 2 people posting and ignoring the situation. Doesn't seem anywhere close to "going nowhere" to me.
You act like this was all very well thought out and planned, when I'm basically arguing the opposite. I think you quickly jumped on an "easy" Archmage Eternal wagon (I know he's not new, but he's not an exceptional player either), and then shortly after I voted you, looked back and realized how it looked. And then tried to explain it away.
Neither of them posted between your vote and your reasoning. If those outs were there, they were there when you made your vote.
I'm just going to use my own quotes for each of these:
It was pretty clear that the AE wagon was not going anywhere by the time I posted why I voted. Any pressure AE would have felt by a couple of quick votes disappears by an equal number of people speaking out against the wagon.
That is why I don't mind admitting what I was thinking. Just look at my motivation to tell you. Do you really think that I could just stall and then dump the same reasoning in my own defense? That makes less sense than admitting it up front, and I'm certainly not a player people let say "I have reasons I don't want to post yet". I obviously knew how I might come across, but I felt it was still worth pursuing
This explains why I came out immediately. I knew the plan was flawed. Period. there's no other explanation other than I simply should have thought "this was stupid" to begin with instead of "this is worth it".
I also note you are simply implying that I am targeting AE as a weaker player - which is horse☺☺☺☺ frankly. You are clearly in the mindset of "EP is lying and I'd rather say AE is an easy target for a lynch because he's not that good than admit EP might be telling the truth".
As for the outs already being there... you're just right on that one.
@guardman- i feel like we are still halfway in the rvs, so just calm down
You've said some dumb things in the past, this tops the list.
Vote: DJC I originally had a town feel on you, but you're waaay too defensive. This last exchange between you and DYH, especially since you're not admitting to be wrong.
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I very clearly called you out for attacking someone on the charge of lurking. I expressed disbelief at such a charge. Then I noted it is four days into a game, and with that, it being a holiday weekend no less. One is clearly more important than the other, as the other is an additional qualifier. I have changed nothing, here; the stress of importance is pretty obvious.
I stand by that charge. Tweak the definition all you want; Vez was doing an absolute minimum amount of posting, and that posting contained zero content. Until he suddenly fingered by very loosely barning Eco:
Quote from Vez »
From Ecophagy I do agree DJ is scummy.
Out of nowhere, since other than his one-word 'Why?' post in response to Emo (post#89, where Emo was not even talking to Vez), he posted back at post #84, where he basically admits he has no real feel for anything happening at all:
Quote from Vez »
I'll fence sit a little.
I don't like neither of those wagons.
Although I have to say L_P brings some good points.
I will think about this and tell you later.
So he's not adding much here, and not posting nearly as much as the other players. That in my eyes is a lurk; when he comes out of nowhere to start baseless attacking, I think it's worth calling it out.
So Vez isn't lurking in your eyes because this is a new game and a holiday. I think he is for his actual lack of post count, content, and the fact that the holiday makes no difference. So, he-said, she-said?
Vezok then brought it to my attention (not me directly, but in stating) that he had posted every game day - which is true. There is no contradiction here - calling someone out for lurking four days into a game is ridiculous, even moreso when that player has posted every day.
This happened after you called me out. You attacked me for the lurking thing in post #117 and Vez complained that he posted daily after that post occurred (post #123). You're essentially using post-mortem info to retroactively fuel your point here.
And the basis of this whole thing is an issue of semantics, anyway. Unless you can show me an accepted definition of 'lurking'.
So my question to you is simply why is this so important? Why does my opinion of Vez's post habits validate your belief that I'm scum?
I didn't look to see that Vezok lives in Romania, although I do recall noting that now when being shocked over his misplay in my Amistarian game; was thinking more about the fact that, you know, I live in the US and it's a holiday here.
He has a Romanian flag as a part of his avatar and (no offense Vez) English is clearly not his native language.
Are you saying that you had an experience with him in Amistarian that clued you in to his nationality before you posted here? Can you point it out?
Knowing that he's not currently celebrating a holiday, how does that change your opinion on the issue at hand?
I'm jumping on you because you made a terrible accusation. You trying to discredit me via poor arguments isn't helping how I feel about you.
Are you referring to the fact that I called him out for not posting any content, and suddenly shooting a previously-baseless attack at me without explaining it (other than barning Eco)? Or jsut the fact that I used the term 'lurking'?
Worth noting that you're essentially trying to discredit me via a pretty leaky argument as well.
Oh, so now it's "lightest poster". So you realize the lurking charge is BS, and now you're trying to semantics your way out of it? Not buying it.
You're trying to twist this and put words in my mouth. Let me be very clear, in case you ahven't gotten the gist of my point so far:
-Vez was, up until I called him on it, lurking in my opinion. I define lurking as minimal posting, and posting with no content. Put another way, light posting. Read it any way you want, but my intent is crystal-clear.
I don't have an issue with the latter part of your comment here, I still think the lurking/light content bit is terrible, and modified from it's earlier form to seem less awful than it was originally since I called you on it.
See above. My stance hasn't changed, and i'm still waiting for him to answer my questions. If you think that it's more important to pin scum on me over use of a word rather than the fact that he is throwing around accusations with little actual base and in a very erratic manner, you're clearly focused on attacking me and not looking around at what else is happening.
In fact: My attack on Vez not withstanding, what is your opinion on how he played out his hand in the past several posts he made? (Start from his "fence-sitting" post until his most recent.)
Why did you feel the need to phrase it that way is the question; my best guess is that you feel if you make it out to be you're doing what Eco's doing, he'll stop giving you grief.
That's just it...Eco was never giving me grief to begin with. He was posting intelligent questions to multiple players, so I tried to give him honest answers about my intentions. He hasn't come back to me since my last explanation either, and I assume that speaks to his satisfaction with my answers. (Eco, feel free to correct me if I'm off-base here.)
In any case, I would hope I was doing what he was doing. That's kind of what we all should be doing right now anyway.
Right; but medium-sized creatures don't feel the need to tell everyone they're medium-sized creatures. It's kind of understood.
He asked why I did something, and I chose to tell him in the manner I did. I see no issue here. You seem to be very concerned over how I say things, not what I'm actually saying. Before you go there, this is why I'm over-doing it in my defense here; I feel like you're trying to concoct an attack on me that doesn't need to have a solid foundation, and thus doesn't need much of a solid case. That sort of play is made to either gain information or because it's a scum gambit. I'm all about trying to see what your motivation is here.
--->DJ
EWP:
Jobie, please see my final paragraph here as to why I'm making a passioned defense.
You didn't answer my question - why is being calm and analytical a town tell?
Sorry, I should have emphasized it. I think being calm and analytical under pressure is a town tell, the "under pressure" being the key phrase. I would expect mafia to be quicker to buckle to pressure, because they have a higher baseline psychological burden from constantly concealing their true intentions. If that's not generally the case, then it seems it would make most scumhunting techniques rather ineffective.
@guardman- i feel like we are still halfway in the rvs, so just calm down
What does halfway in the RVS mean? At what point would we be "all the way" out of the RVS, and how would that change your behavior?
He asked why I did something, and I chose to tell him in the manner I did. I see no issue here. You seem to be very concerned over how I say things, not what I'm actually saying. Before you go there, this is why I'm over-doing it in my defense here; I feel like you're trying to concoct an attack on me that doesn't need to have a solid foundation, and thus doesn't need much of a solid case. That sort of play is made to either gain information or because it's a scum gambit. I'm all about trying to see what your motivation is here.
--->DJ
EWP:
Jobie, please see my final paragraph here as to why I'm making a passioned defense.
I don't think WHAT you're saying and HOW you're saying it are that unrelated. The two go hand in hand. You're reading very nervous to me right now. If you're town, you've got nothing to be nervous about.
You're consistently slightly off base. I'm reluctantly unvoting Unvote. I'm back to getting noob town feel off of you, despite bad posting.
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On DJC: I do not consider him particularly scummy. I asked him questions because I was trying to get a better understanding of his mindset, and to attack him for answering those questions - questions which were very specific and requested detail - seems ludicrous.
Sorry, I should have emphasized it. I think being calm and analytical under pressure is a town tell, the "under pressure" being the key phrase. I would expect mafia to be quicker to buckle to pressure, because they have a higher baseline psychological burden from constantly concealing their true intentions. If that's not generally the case, then it seems it would make most scumhunting techniques rather ineffective.
Therefore you feel that ZDS was put under sufficient pressure to potentially reveal scumtells, correct? Otherwise, he cannot have exhibted the town tell you unvoted him for.
Since this must be the case, I challenge you to explain how three votes and no actual case is sufficient pressure to provide any kind of alignment tell.
I don't think WHAT you're saying and HOW you're saying it are that unrelated. The two go hand in hand. You're reading very nervous to me right now. If you're town, you've got nothing to be nervous about.
You're consistently slightly off base. I'm reluctantly unvoting Unvote. I'm back to getting noob town feel off of you, despite bad posting.
I am not going to rehash this entire argument - the point is that you accused someone of lurking four days into a game starting. That was my initial point, and I've stood by that from the beginning. It is impossible to have a feel for someone lurking four days into a game. Period.
The fact it was a holiday weekend would preemptively excuse anyone from such lurking, but yes, Vezok being Romanian rather negates that, sure. My experience with him in Amistarian - where I was the mod - was that he misinterpreted his role PM and essentially claimed scum; I remember now thinking perhaps it wasn't clear because he's not a native speaker.
But yet, you're still reaching for points that don't even matter. Rather than address the main point, you reached for the weak one you could dismiss.
The bottom line is that you made an accusation of lurking far, far too early into the game for my liking. For that matter, I had one post at the time when you called Vezok on it. I'm sure I wasn't alone there - why specifically pick on Vezok?
Of course unless you know he has a history of being a somewhat persecuted player and a soft target?
This tells me all I need to know:
Quote from DJC »
He asked why I did something, and I chose to tell him in the manner I did. I see no issue here. You seem to be very concerned over how I say things, not what I'm actually saying. Before you go there, this is why I'm over-doing it in my defense here; I feel like you're trying to concoct an attack on me that doesn't need to have a solid foundation, and thus doesn't need much of a solid case. That sort of play is made to either gain information or because it's a scum gambit. I'm all about trying to see what your motivation is here.
Exactly. It is all about how you're saying things. Anyone can try to say the right things - scum or town - but it's the mindset driving those things that matters. You seem to be implying you understand that with the latter half of your statement, yet here you are questioning why it's an issue?
Plus there's the fact that you won't admit to being wrong - which in this case you totally are. Had you just said, "well perhaps lurking isn't the correct term" we probably wouldn't be here. Instead, you went all sorts of other routes trying to undermine my attack, as I've noted previously.
I get to go wherever I want - and yes, you've failed miserably - over-reacting to this lurking accusation discussion and trying to mold a definition that works, along with continued attempts to derail the initial point: this isn't about Vez living in Romania, or "light posting", or even him having posted all three days - this was about four days in you called someone, anyone out for lurking.
I was 'poking you with a stick' and you've come back with an AK-47. Sketchy.
One question: Do you think DYH's attacks are baseless?
I don't believe they're baseless; nothing in this game really is. I have a problem with them because his attack on me seems based more on my use of the word 'lurking' and my application of it, and not the meat of my argument.
Here's where I'm at:
1. You were very quiet for the entire beginning of the game.
2. You suddenly attacked me by barning another line of questioning out of the blue, one that Eco has said wasn't anything but a line of questioning anyway.
3. You followed that up by a vote on someone else.
4. You responded to my attack with defense until you got another person to jump on with you and vote first, at which point you then voted.
Here are my two questions to you:
1. What about Eco's line of questioning led you to believe it was scummy?
2. Why did you wait until DYH voted me to vote as well?
A subset of lurking is the so-called "active lurking", where a player posts in the thread but without making any contribution to the progress of the game. Their posts may be minimal in length, off-topic, or merely parroting what other players have already said.
This is word-for-word what Vez was doing until I called him out on his attack. My feel for him doing this was that he came out of nowhere with accusations that he didn't back up after posting next to no content, and with a very low post count overall.
If you take that much umbrage with the term, I'll give you what you're looking for. I was wrong in calling it a full-on lurk. What I was not wrong on was the meat of my argument. For that, see my last post directed at him. My issue is there, so I don't need to rehash it towards you. The main part of my argument stems from Vez's actions surrounding his posting pattern.
Those points do matter to me. That's why I'm making them.
The bottom line is that you made an accusation of lurking far, far too early into the game for my liking. For that matter, I had one post at the time when you called Vezok on it. I'm sure I wasn't alone there - why specifically pick on Vezok?
THAT I'll accept. It's the first time you're not telling me that I'm flat-out wrong, but that you don't like what I did. As ZDS has said and will attest, I tend to over-react to attacks that tell me I'm doing one thing or another. I apologize for that as well.
As I stated to Vez, he got my attack not because of the quantity or quality of his posts, but because he opened with an attack out of nowhere with no provocation or backup. I would have gone after you if you had done the same thing.
Plus there's the fact that you won't admit to being wrong - which in this case you totally are. Had you just said, "well perhaps lurking isn't the correct term" we probably wouldn't be here. Instead, you went all sorts of other routes trying to undermine my attack, as I've noted previously.
See above. I feel I've correctly summed up how Vez was acting, and if I misapplied a term to do so, I apologize for it. But it in no way invalidates my points against him.
We've beaten this to death, so this is the last I'm going to address it. If you still feel that this is clear-cut proof that I'm scum, feel free to let your vote stand. I'm moving back to making my case.
Since this must be the case, I challenge you to explain how three votes and no actual case is sufficient pressure to provide any kind of alignment tell.
It felt like enough at the time. That's about it.
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
FoS: Ecophagy (picks on Archonoid yet still hasn't changed his RVS vote).
Well then, why did I want to jump on AE? Do I have a grudge against him that I'm not even aware of?
I don't know I am not a mind reader. The reasons you gave though show that you just wanted to go after someone, hence your excuse of saying well AE was the scummiest person at the time even though he wasn't that scummy.
But your entire vote on me reeks of OMGUS, you are voting me because you think I am being too aggressive towards you, despite the fact that you went after AE with little justification.
I too was wondering why DJ would call Vez out for lurking when he was posting. I then was wondering why he didn't bring up that it was active lurking as thats what he was discribing. Then someone asked how many games DJs been in and its 2. So I then atribute this to lack of experience/knowledge of terminology and am willing to give him a pass on the matter.
Votecount has been updated with corrections, though try and remember rule [2], and I'll miss fewer votes in the future. AE's vote got missed because there was a bug in my votecount maker script.
This is word-for-word what Vez was doing until I called him out on his attack. My feel for him doing this was that he came out of nowhere with accusations that he didn't back up after posting next to no content, and with a very low post count overall.
And here is the crux of my argument again. At that point, we're four flipping days into the game. People are still posting RVS-stuff.
*sigh*
We're just going in circles now, and you've quoted "active lurking" rather than "lurking" - there's a difference. Which I see you've identified here:
Quote from DJC »
If you take that much umbrage with the term, I'll give you what you're looking for. I was wrong in calling it a full-on lurk. What I was not wrong on was the meat of my argument. For that, see my last post directed at him. My issue is there, so I don't need to rehash it towards you. The main part of my argument stems from Vez's actions surrounding his posting pattern.
Those points do matter to me. That's why I'm making them.
THAT I'll accept. It's the first time you're not telling me that I'm flat-out wrong, but that you don't like what I did. As ZDS has said and will attest, I tend to over-react to attacks that tell me I'm doing one thing or another. I apologize for that as well.
Uh, no; I'm pretty sure I said 'do not care for' and 'dislike it greatly', along with 'this post is terrible' initially; albeit the not caring and disliking parts were for the section you breezed over initially - empathizing with Eco. If it wasn't clear that I disliked your post and behavior after this back-and-forth, I really don't know what to tell you. Seriously.
Quote from DJC »
As I stated to Vez, he got my attack not because of the quantity or quality of his posts, but because he opened with an attack out of nowhere with no provocation or backup. I would have gone after you if you had done the same thing.
See above. I feel I've correctly summed up how Vez was acting, and if I misapplied a term to do so, I apologize for it. But it in no way invalidates my points against him.
We've beaten this to death, so this is the last I'm going to address it. If you still feel that this is clear-cut proof that I'm scum, feel free to let your vote stand. I'm moving back to making my case.
--->DJ
This (as well as the first part of the above quote) makes far more sense than anything you've said in this entire argument, and I can buy that.
I too was wondering why DJ would call Vez out for lurking when he was posting. I then was wondering why he didn't bring up that it was active lurking as thats what he was discribing. Then someone asked how many games DJs been in and its 2. So I then atribute this to lack of experience/knowledge of terminology and am willing to give him a pass on the matter.
Unvote
Although this isn't a pass (as AE says in his quote) for me; it's that I simply need to figure out what else has been going on while we've been bandying about. I still have doubts about you calling out Vezok this early, but I would like to hear him answer your questions in his next post.
I need to get off the tunnel-vision path I'm currently on, regardless; it's too early and unhealthy.
DJC: You say i am lurking because I posted minimal content.
Poggy is doing the same . You never said anything about him.
More than half of DJC's posts were about or referenced Poggy, and he was targeting Poggy with questions right up until his exchange with you and DYH. So what leads you to post such a counterfactual statement?
I don't see how this can be the case - ZDS was under no actual pressure, so unvoting him for remaining calm under pressure is wrong; especially given that being calm under pressure isn't really a town tell. In addition, your original reason for voting ZDS is complete cack.
I don't see how this can be the case - ZDS was under no actual pressure, so unvoting him for remaining calm under pressure is wrong; especially given that being calm under pressure isn't really a town tell.
Why not? It seems self-evident that a scum will feel pressure more strongly than a townie, and thus will crack faster. Why do you think this is not the case?
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Interesting...Where up to this point has Eco accused me of being scummy? Did i miss something past his line of questioning?
You're lurking quite a bit, and then throwing out some pretty empty accusations when you do post with no backup. What gives?
I agree. However, it's usually in a situation where it's a hammer vote, not the second or third vote on a young wagon.
It absolutely does carry negative connotations. This is because the way poggy plays the game is, in my opinion, pretty terrible. He does nothing but play the 'crazy' card non-stop, which really only succeeds in getting him overlooked for being crazy. It doesn't help the town scum-hunt at all. It would admittedly be a decent way to play as scum, I suppose, but trying to pin that on him now is too hard without just claiming WIFOM.
...Hence my prodding on him to give me an answer on why he voted in the manner he did. But we've pretty much killed any hope of getting an answer out of him now, haven't we?
If you think Poggy is town, why did you use the word "excuse" - it is clearly a very accusatory word with negative connotations.
For the same reasons you're grilling others and myself; gauging reactions.
--->DJ
--->DJ
You know how Poggy plays, and how hes taken by others. Now appearently Vez tends to throw his role out there. I found that out in our last game. So its not so much a contradiction. You should know where I'm coming from.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Getting the feeling I may want to pbpa this game. Haven't done one of those in a while. OK, see you in 300 posts or so.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Unfortunately, that leaves me with few immediate scum leads. The most active players have well-reasoned contributions. The only one among them I mislike is Emo, and that's primarily a matter of tone rather than content.
I'm not set on voting anyone. I couldn't be; there's not going to be enough evidence at this point in the game to condemn anyone with certainty. At the time, you and EP had the posts that caught my attention the most - you for content, EP for tone. The former has resolved (for now). The latter is still present, but not sufficient to draw a vote from me at this point.
You're responses are scummy. For example you defended every single thing Eco attacked you for. One was the use of a word.
If you were town you wouldn't be so interested in what people think about you.
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Alright, perhaps "absolutely" was the wrong word, but by it I meant "enough to induce an unvote". Why do you feel that being calm and analytical is a town tell? How has ZDS' tone absolved him of his content?
You didn't answer my question - why is being calm and analytical a town tell?
Interesting...you find answering honest questions with honest answers is scummy? I defended use of the word because he asked me specifically about it.
Would it have been less scummy to simply ignore him completely?
--->DJ
This post is terrible.
Lurking? Really? Four days into a game and on a holiday weekend, no less?
I also do not care for the underlined sentence at the bottom; feels like an attempt to empathize with the attacker. Dislike it greatly.
Ecophagy, on the other hand, is playing entirely different from how he did in Conflux where I felt (and) he was scum because he was so aloof.
I agree entirely with Vezok.
Vote: DJ Catchem
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
vote DJC
I want to see how you react to pressure.
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I've made my points, you've made yours. If you guys like this as a wagon, go right ahead.
--->DJ
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So they celebrate U.S. memorial Day in Romania?
--->DJ
@Jobie:
Basic #34 (King Arthur) and Mini Social Engineering.
--->DJ
What ? I posted every day here.
I don't celebrate that here, but still.
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Answer me this...why did you do that, only to finally vote me after you got someone else to agree with your post and vote me first?
Anyway...
Poggy, I'm still interested in what's making you tick here. What was your motivation behind jumping on the AE wagon after Emo's vote? You still haven't explained where you see him "basically claiming scum".
--->DJ
Your smug little response here is pretty amusing. You're missing the major point of the argument (pick one, you're straw-manning or cherry-picking), which was that you accused someone of lurking four days into a game. Furthermore,
you called someone on it [lurking] who had posted each of the last three days.
You have a legitimate question to vezok in your last post, though.
The fact you avoided any discussion around my empathizing comment, however, leads me to believe I'm 100% correct, there.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Tell me its off-base. You called me out for, amongst other things, going at Vez for lurking when it's a holiday weekend. He's from another country and then confirms that he's not celebrating a holiday.
Question for you on this line...why would you include the bit about the holiday to begin with? You've switched over to calling me out over the definition of 'lurking' here, now suggesting he isn't lurking. Why does the holiday play into it if you don't think he actually is lurking? It's a contradiction.
My feeling here is you're jumping on me and using whatever you can to attack with. I'd love to hear if I'm wrong.
I'm calling him out on lurking because he's one of the lightest posters here, and has posted next to no content at all. (I sort-of summarized it that post back to him, but I can PBPA all vez content if you really want. Or reread the game to this point...there's not much there.)
until things got rolling toward me in the last few pages.
I do, and I'm really interested in an answer. Please note that I'm not in any way suggesting he doesn't have a reason or right to make a case against me; I'm suggesting that the combination of the light posting and the sudden attack while voting someone else didn't really suggest a strong base to begin from. After that, waiting for someone else to actually add content and then barning that vote seemed to be pretty suspect.
Sorry...I missed that part the first time through. I'll address it head-on, though. Empathy with anyone was not the point there, and really didn't matter at all anyway. Eco wanted to know why I used that term, and I told him. It was important to point out clearly why I was doing what I was doing, because I was on record of seeing Poggy as town, yet still grilling him. I wanted to get a reaction.
It seemed Eco was doing the same thing to me with that line of questioning, so I called it out. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Eco was suspecting me of anything there, and he also had multiple lines in the water, so to speak, on other players for other reasons.
It's the same thing Vez actually admitted to doing as well a few posts back. It's what ZDS' early pressure is for. It's what poggy's 'crazy' is for. This is kinda what town is supposed to do to find an open line to work.
--->DJ
You had 3 speaking for, and 2 against, with only 2 people posting and ignoring the situation. Doesn't seem anywhere close to "going nowhere" to me.
You act like this was all very well thought out and planned, when I'm basically arguing the opposite. I think you quickly jumped on an "easy" Archmage Eternal wagon (I know he's not new, but he's not an exceptional player either), and then shortly after I voted you, looked back and realized how it looked. And then tried to explain it away.
Neither of them posted between your vote and your reasoning. If those outs were there, they were there when you made your vote.
The speed is not what made it suck, but it was what made it a wagon, and therefore it was a wagon worth ending.
Was any vote necessary then?
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
Unvote
Vote Poggydude
Unvote
Vote ZDS
You are really trying my patience. Why won't you just answer my question? Also I don't know which half, but I am guessing that you are making this all up half.
Honestly I'm not sure if you are scum or just being stubborn town.
You didn't need to, but you wanted to, by the very fact that you did start AE's wagon for such weak reasons.
Also I feel that it is perfectly applicable to point it at wagon starters, even at the RVS.
What exactly are you trying to say here?
Let's review:
I very clearly called you out for attacking someone on the charge of lurking. I expressed disbelief at such a charge. Then I noted it is four days into a game, and with that, it being a holiday weekend no less. One is clearly more important than the other, as the other is an additional qualifier. I have changed nothing, here; the stress of importance is pretty obvious.
Vezok then brought it to my attention (not me directly, but in stating) that he had posted every game day - which is true. There is no contradiction here - calling someone out for lurking four days into a game is ridiculous, even moreso when that player has posted every day.
I didn't look to see that Vezok lives in Romania, although I do recall noting that now when being shocked over his misplay in my Amistarian game; was thinking more about the fact that, you know, I live in the US and it's a holiday here.
I'm jumping on you because you made a terrible accusation. You trying to discredit me via poor arguments isn't helping how I feel about you.
Oh, so now it's "lightest poster". So you realize the lurking charge is BS, and now you're trying to semantics your way out of it? Not buying it.
I don't have an issue with the latter part of your comment here, I still think the lurking/light content bit is terrible, and modified from it's earlier form to seem less awful than it was originally since I called you on it.
Why did you feel the need to phrase it that way is the question; my best guess is that you feel if you make it out to be you're doing what Eco's doing, he'll stop giving you grief.
Right; but medium-sized creatures don't feel the need to tell everyone they're medium-sized creatures. It's kind of understood.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Wait what?
Are you saying that your vote and your responses to me was all because you think we are still in the "rvs" even though we left the rvs a long time ago.
I'm just going to use my own quotes for each of these:
This explains the going nowhere.
This explains why I came out immediately. I knew the plan was flawed. Period. there's no other explanation other than I simply should have thought "this was stupid" to begin with instead of "this is worth it".
I also note you are simply implying that I am targeting AE as a weaker player - which is horse☺☺☺☺ frankly. You are clearly in the mindset of "EP is lying and I'd rather say AE is an easy target for a lynch because he's not that good than admit EP might be telling the truth".
As for the outs already being there... you're just right on that one.
You've said some dumb things in the past, this tops the list.
Vote: DJC I originally had a town feel on you, but you're waaay too defensive. This last exchange between you and DYH, especially since you're not admitting to be wrong.
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I stand by that charge. Tweak the definition all you want; Vez was doing an absolute minimum amount of posting, and that posting contained zero content. Until he suddenly fingered by very loosely barning Eco:
Out of nowhere, since other than his one-word 'Why?' post in response to Emo (post#89, where Emo was not even talking to Vez), he posted back at post #84, where he basically admits he has no real feel for anything happening at all:
So he's not adding much here, and not posting nearly as much as the other players. That in my eyes is a lurk; when he comes out of nowhere to start baseless attacking, I think it's worth calling it out.
So Vez isn't lurking in your eyes because this is a new game and a holiday. I think he is for his actual lack of post count, content, and the fact that the holiday makes no difference. So, he-said, she-said?
This happened after you called me out. You attacked me for the lurking thing in post #117 and Vez complained that he posted daily after that post occurred (post #123). You're essentially using post-mortem info to retroactively fuel your point here.
And the basis of this whole thing is an issue of semantics, anyway. Unless you can show me an accepted definition of 'lurking'.
So my question to you is simply why is this so important? Why does my opinion of Vez's post habits validate your belief that I'm scum?
He has a Romanian flag as a part of his avatar and (no offense Vez) English is clearly not his native language.
Are you saying that you had an experience with him in Amistarian that clued you in to his nationality before you posted here? Can you point it out?
Knowing that he's not currently celebrating a holiday, how does that change your opinion on the issue at hand?
Are you referring to the fact that I called him out for not posting any content, and suddenly shooting a previously-baseless attack at me without explaining it (other than barning Eco)? Or jsut the fact that I used the term 'lurking'?
Worth noting that you're essentially trying to discredit me via a pretty leaky argument as well.
You're trying to twist this and put words in my mouth. Let me be very clear, in case you ahven't gotten the gist of my point so far:
-Vez was, up until I called him on it, lurking in my opinion. I define lurking as minimal posting, and posting with no content. Put another way, light posting. Read it any way you want, but my intent is crystal-clear.
See above. My stance hasn't changed, and i'm still waiting for him to answer my questions. If you think that it's more important to pin scum on me over use of a word rather than the fact that he is throwing around accusations with little actual base and in a very erratic manner, you're clearly focused on attacking me and not looking around at what else is happening.
In fact: My attack on Vez not withstanding, what is your opinion on how he played out his hand in the past several posts he made? (Start from his "fence-sitting" post until his most recent.)
That's just it...Eco was never giving me grief to begin with. He was posting intelligent questions to multiple players, so I tried to give him honest answers about my intentions. He hasn't come back to me since my last explanation either, and I assume that speaks to his satisfaction with my answers. (Eco, feel free to correct me if I'm off-base here.)
In any case, I would hope I was doing what he was doing. That's kind of what we all should be doing right now anyway.
He asked why I did something, and I chose to tell him in the manner I did. I see no issue here. You seem to be very concerned over how I say things, not what I'm actually saying. Before you go there, this is why I'm over-doing it in my defense here; I feel like you're trying to concoct an attack on me that doesn't need to have a solid foundation, and thus doesn't need much of a solid case. That sort of play is made to either gain information or because it's a scum gambit. I'm all about trying to see what your motivation is here.
--->DJ
EWP:
Jobie, please see my final paragraph here as to why I'm making a passioned defense.
Poggy, two things-
1) We're clearly out of RVS by now. Three different wagons have been started.
2) You still haven't answered my question. Again, can you explain your blind vote, and speak to why you think AE had outed himself as scum?
--->DJ
Sorry, I should have emphasized it. I think being calm and analytical under pressure is a town tell, the "under pressure" being the key phrase. I would expect mafia to be quicker to buckle to pressure, because they have a higher baseline psychological burden from constantly concealing their true intentions. If that's not generally the case, then it seems it would make most scumhunting techniques rather ineffective.
What does halfway in the RVS mean? At what point would we be "all the way" out of the RVS, and how would that change your behavior?
You're consistently slightly off base. I'm reluctantly unvoting Unvote. I'm back to getting noob town feel off of you, despite bad posting.
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Therefore you feel that ZDS was put under sufficient pressure to potentially reveal scumtells, correct? Otherwise, he cannot have exhibted the town tell you unvoted him for.
Since this must be the case, I challenge you to explain how three votes and no actual case is sufficient pressure to provide any kind of alignment tell.
This sounds like a town Jobie.
unvote
DJC: You say i am lurking because I posted minimal content.
Poggy is doing the same . You never said anything about him.
One question: Do you think DYH's attacks are baseless?
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(3) Emo_Pinata - Archmage Eternal, Lost_Profit, Wrath_of_DoG
(2) DJ Catchem - DYH, vezokpiraka
(2) Wrath_of_DoG - Ecophagy, RisingPhoenix
(2) Archonoid - Arcadic, Emo_Pinata
(1) Ecophagy - zindabad
(1) ZeDorkSlipeur - Guardman
Not Voting: Archonoid, DJ Catchem, Jobie, poggydude, ZeDorkSlipeur
With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
I'll be doing a round of prods later today.
I am not going to rehash this entire argument - the point is that you accused someone of lurking four days into a game starting. That was my initial point, and I've stood by that from the beginning. It is impossible to have a feel for someone lurking four days into a game. Period.
The fact it was a holiday weekend would preemptively excuse anyone from such lurking, but yes, Vezok being Romanian rather negates that, sure. My experience with him in Amistarian - where I was the mod - was that he misinterpreted his role PM and essentially claimed scum; I remember now thinking perhaps it wasn't clear because he's not a native speaker.
But yet, you're still reaching for points that don't even matter. Rather than address the main point, you reached for the weak one you could dismiss.
The bottom line is that you made an accusation of lurking far, far too early into the game for my liking. For that matter, I had one post at the time when you called Vezok on it. I'm sure I wasn't alone there - why specifically pick on Vezok?
Of course unless you know he has a history of being a somewhat persecuted player and a soft target?
This tells me all I need to know:
Exactly. It is all about how you're saying things. Anyone can try to say the right things - scum or town - but it's the mindset driving those things that matters. You seem to be implying you understand that with the latter half of your statement, yet here you are questioning why it's an issue?
Plus there's the fact that you won't admit to being wrong - which in this case you totally are. Had you just said, "well perhaps lurking isn't the correct term" we probably wouldn't be here. Instead, you went all sorts of other routes trying to undermine my attack, as I've noted previously.
I get to go wherever I want - and yes, you've failed miserably - over-reacting to this lurking accusation discussion and trying to mold a definition that works, along with continued attempts to derail the initial point: this isn't about Vez living in Romania, or "light posting", or even him having posted all three days - this was about four days in you called someone, anyone out for lurking.
I was 'poking you with a stick' and you've come back with an AK-47. Sketchy.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Poggy is doing a similar thing. That's why I keep prompting him over and over to answer my question.
I don't believe they're baseless; nothing in this game really is. I have a problem with them because his attack on me seems based more on my use of the word 'lurking' and my application of it, and not the meat of my argument.
Here's where I'm at:
1. You were very quiet for the entire beginning of the game.
2. You suddenly attacked me by barning another line of questioning out of the blue, one that Eco has said wasn't anything but a line of questioning anyway.
3. You followed that up by a vote on someone else.
4. You responded to my attack with defense until you got another person to jump on with you and vote first, at which point you then voted.
Here are my two questions to you:
1. What about Eco's line of questioning led you to believe it was scummy?
2. Why did you wait until DYH voted me to vote as well?
--->DJ
From that link:
A subset of lurking is the so-called "active lurking", where a player posts in the thread but without making any contribution to the progress of the game. Their posts may be minimal in length, off-topic, or merely parroting what other players have already said.
This is word-for-word what Vez was doing until I called him out on his attack. My feel for him doing this was that he came out of nowhere with accusations that he didn't back up after posting next to no content, and with a very low post count overall.
If you take that much umbrage with the term, I'll give you what you're looking for. I was wrong in calling it a full-on lurk. What I was not wrong on was the meat of my argument. For that, see my last post directed at him. My issue is there, so I don't need to rehash it towards you. The main part of my argument stems from Vez's actions surrounding his posting pattern.
Those points do matter to me. That's why I'm making them.
THAT I'll accept. It's the first time you're not telling me that I'm flat-out wrong, but that you don't like what I did. As ZDS has said and will attest, I tend to over-react to attacks that tell me I'm doing one thing or another. I apologize for that as well.
As I stated to Vez, he got my attack not because of the quantity or quality of his posts, but because he opened with an attack out of nowhere with no provocation or backup. I would have gone after you if you had done the same thing.
See above. I feel I've correctly summed up how Vez was acting, and if I misapplied a term to do so, I apologize for it. But it in no way invalidates my points against him.
We've beaten this to death, so this is the last I'm going to address it. If you still feel that this is clear-cut proof that I'm scum, feel free to let your vote stand. I'm moving back to making my case.
--->DJ
@ZDS: Lawl.
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'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
It felt like enough at the time. That's about it.
Why is this a scum tell?
I don't know I am not a mind reader. The reasons you gave though show that you just wanted to go after someone, hence your excuse of saying well AE was the scummiest person at the time even though he wasn't that scummy.
But your entire vote on me reeks of OMGUS, you are voting me because you think I am being too aggressive towards you, despite the fact that you went after AE with little justification.
@Poggy: Please answer the questions asked of you.
I placed the vote but it was not counted.
I too was wondering why DJ would call Vez out for lurking when he was posting. I then was wondering why he didn't bring up that it was active lurking as thats what he was discribing. Then someone asked how many games DJs been in and its 2. So I then atribute this to lack of experience/knowledge of terminology and am willing to give him a pass on the matter.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
RisingPhoenix and Arcadic are being prodded.
And here is the crux of my argument again. At that point, we're four flipping days into the game. People are still posting RVS-stuff.
*sigh*
We're just going in circles now, and you've quoted "active lurking" rather than "lurking" - there's a difference. Which I see you've identified here:
Uh, no; I'm pretty sure I said 'do not care for' and 'dislike it greatly', along with 'this post is terrible' initially; albeit the not caring and disliking parts were for the section you breezed over initially - empathizing with Eco. If it wasn't clear that I disliked your post and behavior after this back-and-forth, I really don't know what to tell you. Seriously.
This (as well as the first part of the above quote) makes far more sense than anything you've said in this entire argument, and I can buy that.
And this:
Unvote
Although this isn't a pass (as AE says in his quote) for me; it's that I simply need to figure out what else has been going on while we've been bandying about. I still have doubts about you calling out Vezok this early, but I would like to hear him answer your questions in his next post.
I need to get off the tunnel-vision path I'm currently on, regardless; it's too early and unhealthy.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
What questions do I have to answer. I can't seem to find them.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
More than half of DJC's posts were about or referenced Poggy, and he was targeting Poggy with questions right up until his exchange with you and DYH. So what leads you to post such a counterfactual statement?
I don't see how this can be the case - ZDS was under no actual pressure, so unvoting him for remaining calm under pressure is wrong; especially given that being calm under pressure isn't really a town tell. In addition, your original reason for voting ZDS is complete cack.
Vote Archonoid