I meant it. Looked like a nice way to get the conversation started.
I believe at this stage that TheIceMan is scumhunting, that Artifice is trying to categorize the players (implying that he don't know who are town and scum, ergo he is town), and that GigaRage's vote for a no-lynch is strange.
I support the matter of the softclaim. It might reveal factions in the game (like how many scum, how many town, possible masons or something), and I see that as information that is useful for town to have.
From the little experience I have from reading other games and such I think Yanni and Burst are town.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Why don't you go ahead and tell us what happened anyway. I'd like to see if I can follow what you're refering to.
There are times when I am typing a post or reading the thread when a visitor or staff member will approach me and I don't catch them coming on camera. At the point I minimize the window, instead of closing out like i prefer. This only happens when I get caught off guard. I also have a "Code Phone" I have to respond to in moments notice when it rings. I work for Hospital with a Trauma Center. I try to type when it's not busy, but it is hard to tell when it will be. Hope that helps.
1) So you tried to explain yourself in your previous post. As it stands, you presented a false representation of your behavior and are now refusing to elaborate further.
2) Your use of the word "case" is telling, because it makes my accusation(s) out to be a bigger deal than they actually are, and thus gives more credence to your accusation that I'm reaching.
3) You say I'm "reaching", but you're not voting me?
1) I didn't want to elaborate more, because it is getting into my personal life. Something you, and everyone else, don't need to know. Seeing as how it was pushed, I responded above. (No offense to anyone here, but my life is my life, not yours. :))
2) What word would you have used?
3) Your coming after me with reasons that are flawed IMO. That is a null tell to me, because town can to it just as much as mafia.
To be perfectly honest, I'm kind of at a loss for words here. Like, as in, what are people even voting me for? That I'm scumhunting? That I'm not providing reasons to your adequately high standards for my actions? That I'm frustrated that legitimate scumhunting is drawing votes?
It was your 180 in behavior for me. You got what 4 votes on you> (Estimate from reading, I have not counted) and you got defensive and stopped posting content. Behavior Analysis is good.
@Arti:
Race Claim? Not atm. If more agree, then I will.
1) I didn't want to elaborate more, because it is getting into my personal life. Something you, and everyone else, don't need to know. Seeing as how it was pushed, I responded above. (No offense to anyone here, but my life is my life, not yours. )
2) What word would you have used?
3) Your coming after me with reasons that are flawed IMO. That is a null tell to me, because town can to it just as much as mafia.
1) See, I just don't buy it. You had time to time to post some witty link, you had time to make a joke vote, but you didn't have time make a one-line serious response.
2) The correct word at the time would have been accusation.
3) You used the word "reaching". Reaching implies that I'm actively trying to accuse you given behavior that is not accusation-worthy. Scum do this, town do not.
Quote from Void »
What's with the sudden change in behavior? It's not like you are close to being lynched.
Because it's frustrating when I have to spell out my every action like you're all two. I call people town without neatly packaging up my reasoning all the time, and there are plenty of others who do the same.
So, if TIM is reaching for a case, why does he need a case? He was simply stating that your smiley doesn't fit and your coming off all defensive and "case is bad dudes" about his skepticism.
Are you really trying to justify the "Smiley out of place" case?
You look like you've been hunting for a safe scum claim, not scum hunting. Also, this is the worst reason you've ever had for voting anyone.
Nah. I've had flat out non reasons to see what happens. This one is a legit reason. His posts have been stiff and meaningless, arguing the idea of having a smiley out of place. I've been busy composing, but a PBPA is likely in order.
What arguments against TIM? That he wants to scumhunt and doesn't see the reason for a smiley after a serious sentence? That Art is OMGUS about being called out for active lurking?
No. I'm not acive lurking. You yourself state what I'm trying to do:
Vote Artifice. The more i read it, the more he looks like scum looking for a false claim than town looking to break the game.
And actually I'm trying to grasp it. How about in the next post you tell me the story of what they hell is going on so far, since I know very little. That's what's bugging me. 5 or so scum have a QT somewhere where they have 5 times (again or so) the information that I have. I'm trying to level the playingfield harmlessly.
His first question was essentially "how much can i get away with in my claim" and his second was "lets claim race since people are familiar with the flavor"
Why don't you quote those posts, and then misrep them again so I don't have to point out the context of what you just did.
I believe at this stage that TheIceMan is scumhunting, that Artifice is trying to categorize the players (implying that he don't know who are town and scum, ergo he is town), and that GigaRage's vote for a no-lynch is strange.
I'm thinking the No Lynch was either an RVS thing or... well let me think about it. The middle thought is absolutely the truth. I'm lost here and need a foothold.
*whistles* Hey guys over here. Lets get some more votes this way.
I'm in on the softclaim. I believe it might help with my role.
I'm going to put this out there. If the town PR's can take a leap of faith on me and not target me early on that'd be real helpful for us.
Quote from Running Tally »
Votes for softclaim (1):
Artifice, GigaRage, Audinho, Archmage Eternal, TheBard
Votes against softclaim (1):
obstinatebaloth, TheIceMan, Wheat_Grinder, Void (conditionally)
Noticed, but have not voted:
Yanni, Archonoid
EWP: @Void: thank you for that very townie post. Now, please answer the question about whether or not you're planning on doing anything nutty this game.
Moar votes for TheIceMan, and more votes for whether you favor a soft claim or not as well.
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I'm here.
As for the starcraft flavor thingy, I'd say 2. The only major thing was someone got converted into Zerg, which was totally cool for me at that time. Everything else blanked.
Because it's frustrating when I have to spell out my every action like you're all two. I call people town without neatly packaging up my reasoning all the time, and there are plenty of others who do the same.
And that's completely fine. But ONLY until people ask you for that reasoning. You're reluctantly saying anything and you're hating on the people who are asking for clarification. Your tone has just become so bad over the last few posts.
And actually I'm trying to grasp it. How about in the next post you tell me the story of what they hell is going on so far, since I know very little. That's what's bugging me. 5 or so scum have a QT somewhere where they have 5 times (again or so) the information that I have. I'm trying to level the playingfield harmlessly.
Because flavor is vital to understanding games, right? Because that's really going to help you catch scum, right? Oh wait, hold on...
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Moar votes for TheIceMan
You realize this would be more effective if you didn't do it in every single post ever. You also aren't nearly good enough at this game to pull this off - you're not Cyan, you're not AI - people aren't going to instinctively trust your cases, and they're not going to start anytime soon when they're as bad as this one.
Seen to many players getting reemed for chaing their opinions to much. I have learned from others mistakes.
Vote: Void
Sorry to end the festivities early, but the smiley face there reeks of defensive nervousness.
Every. Single. Post. In. This. Exchange. Had. An. Emoticon/Smilie. Why would ":)" be more scummy than ":D" ?? No thanks. This post reads like throwing spaghetti up against the wall to see if it sticks.
Also it helps that Void was my mentor recently and he's purely town in this game. He's genuine, sincere, and realistic. If he were scum it would be patently obvious to me. He's town. Deal.
So you were viewing the thread earlier, didn't post, then came back later and posted something completely unrelated? Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good about my vote.
How does posting a question about another players post rather than acknowledging your terrible vote have to do with Void being scum? You're painting here, and you're scum for it.
I'm not really seeing the connection. You had time to read the thread (you were viewing it for a good period), you had time to make an irrelevant post, but you didn't have time to make the one-line reply "What makes you think smiley means anything"?
Since when is being busy with real-life things a scum tell? Especially in this context.
As for the smiley, it tries to make into a joke what is otherwise a relatively serious response. Scum feel the need to do this because they're nervous and need to overcompensate.
This language reads as though you're just using it to deliberately distance yourself from your own alignment.
His level head in responding to Yanni and the relative lack of nervousness or apprehension in the tone of his posts.
So you've created a dichotomy?
Really dislike this post. There's absolutely no need to make it - it's obvious that Heartwork was joking - except to appear to be doing something useful.
So who do you think comes off scummy in the exchange? Heartwork, Wheat_Grinder? It sounds as though you believe both, while defending one player against the other.
Quote from Brinatoo »
This early in the game? I don't typically think RVS shows defensive nervousness, just silliness and a few things to catch onto, like this and the others below.
Except that Void's response was a relatively serious one (as opposed to a content-less RVS post).
Bolded shows a scummy qualifier. If you read the exchange as I've posted it above, it was obviously conversational and calm, not caught scum squirming. BESIDES they were talking about VOTING the MOD. Seriously.
Quote from Audinho »
@Artifice: Good collection of data. Don't know how relevant it is, but at least it's not just Burst and Yanni arguing. I liked it.
Why did you feel the need to say this?
I'm curious as well.
Quote from Void »
1) Incorrect. If you are going to try and trace my steps, please make sure you are accurate. I can proceed to tell you what happened precisely, but that part is irrelevant to this game.
2) I don't see how a smiley face inside RVS can be interpenetrated as such. You are reaching for a case here.
1) So you[Void] tried to explain yourself in your previous post. As it stands, you presented a false representation of your behavior and are now refusing to elaborate further. [/quote]He's elaborated, after being browbeaten by you.
2) Your use of the word "case" is telling, because it makes my accusation(s) out to be a bigger deal than they actually are, and thus gives more credence to your accusation that I'm reaching.
Yeah, you're trying to use formal language to make you case stronger here.
You're not even saying anything. The fact that he used the word "case" is now a scum tell? GTFOOH
3) You say I'm "reaching", but you're not voting me?
So you can label it an OMGUS and try to get him lynched for it? You know better than this TIM. Now please, go ahead and get lynched so we can see what scum looks like in this game.
Quote from IB »
They also feel the need to blow trivialities out of proportion and declare people as town or scum without any real information to back them up.
I'm not liking TIM or Heartwork. Not sure if Heartwork was just exaggerating for hyperbole's sake but TIM trying to turn a smiley into a scumtell after declaring another player as town with absolutely no ground to stand on is way more of a tell to me.
Minimizing legitimate scum hunting is terrible. So is making accusations without backing them up with a vote.
Minimizing legitimate supposition as to the motives of other players is terrible and scummy
@Artifice: I feel no need to tell you how familiar I am with the flavor and I have absolutely no desire to do a softclaim. I suggest you do something actually (rather than superficially) useful, like scumhunting.
This is the forced language I'm refering to. The fact that there's a quote by me in this post that is out of position shows that TIM thought LONG and HARD about how he was going to phrase this response, and made an editting error in the process. This self awareness is scummy.
Want to put your money where your mouth is [zinda, suggesting that Void might be scum but not voting]?
No, you have not been scumhunting. Figuring out who is what race is not scumhunting. Softclaiming is not scumhunting.
Reading and monitoring interactions is scum hunting. That's what I do. I don't have to stir the pot to see what's in it.
Now I'm wagoning you, because I believe I've seen scummy behavior, and your reticence and resistence to a simple soft claim that, as you say later, shouldn't effect the game in a vital way.
I plan on finding scum the same way I always have. If you think something "too trivial", like my calling a smilie scummy, then that's probably why I've been around the block a few more times than you.
Wow. Arrogant superior dismissal of our opinions. You're not kpaca, you're not Seppel (see what I can do, too.).
To be perfectly honest, I'm kind of at a loss for words here. Like, as in, what are people even voting me for?
See above. Also, if you're at a loss for words, why so many words? If you were literally at a loss, you would stop talking.
That I'm scumhunting? That I'm not providing reasons to your adequately high standards for my actions?
My standards seem ok by me.
That I'm frustrated that legitimate scumhunting is drawing votes?
You're making sure, here, we know how frustrated you are. I see this as an act.
1) I didn't want to elaborate more, because it is getting into my personal life. Something you, and everyone else, don't need to know. Seeing as how it was pushed, I responded above. (No offense to anyone here, but my life is my life, not yours. )
2) What word would you have used?
3) Your coming after me with reasons that are flawed IMO. That is a null tell to me, because town can to it just as much as mafia.
1) See, I just don't buy it. You had time to time to post some witty link, you had time to make a joke vote, but you didn't have time make a one-line serious response.
2) The correct word at the time would have been accusation.
3) You used the word "reaching". Reaching implies that I'm actively trying to accuse you given behavior that is not accusation-worthy. Scum do this, town do not.
To address #3, that's exactly what I'm saying you are doing. You're paining up innocent things and trying to make them scum tells. They aren't there. You're also arguing semantics rather than actually finding scum tells.
Because it's frustrating when I have to spell out my every action like you're all two. I call people town without neatly packaging up my reasoning all the time, and there are plenty of others who do the same.
First of all, can you restate the first sentence?
Second, what does what others do have to do with what we believe you are doing here and now? It doesn't excuse what we're suspecting you of doing.
And actually I'm trying to grasp it. How about in the next post you tell me the story of what they hell is going on so far, since I know very little. That's what's bugging me. 5 or so scum have a QT somewhere where they have 5 times (again or so) the information that I have. I'm trying to level the playingfield harmlessly.
Because flavor is vital to understanding games, right? Because that's really going to help you catch scum, right? Oh wait, hold on...
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Moar votes for TheIceMan
You realize this would be more effective if you didn't do it in every single post ever. You also aren't nearly good enough at this game to pull this off - you're not Cyan, you're not AI - people aren't going to instinctively trust your cases, and they're not going to start anytime soon when they're as bad as this one.
Why is there a disconnect in the middle of this post? The two things you quote have nothing to do with each other. At this point you're desperation to find a flaw in your attackers is telling.
Let me know if I've made any mistakes on this, please.
@The Artist formerly known as Tezz: How would knowning someone's race tell them who to Nightkill? There should be 3 races (at least) in this game. And there are 24 players. 19 targets, assuming 5 scum, does not get narrower with a race claim. A full claim, sure, but not a race soft claim.
I want to know if the scum are of one race (see vezok's claim mistake in some game I can't remember). If the soft claim comes up empty on one of the three races, we'll know something, yes? It is a very valid place to start.
@Archonoid: Valid questions are valid.
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I believe at this stage that TheIceMan is scumhunting, that Artifice is trying to categorize the players (implying that he don't know who are town and scum, ergo he is town),
I fail to see how not knowing who are town and who are scum implicates town any more than it implicates neutral, or some position where you arent sure if more of the same race as you are the same alignment.
@Arti:
Race Claim? Not atm. If more agree, then I will.
So you are willing to let others peer pressure you into deciding whether or not to name claim? Seems as though you are trying too hard to please FoS Void (this is not at all related to TheIceMan's case, which I dont buy)
1) See, I just don't buy it. You had time to time to post some witty link, you had time to make a joke vote, but you didn't have time make a one-line serious response.
Because it's frustrating when I have to spell out my every action like you're all two. I call people town without neatly packaging up my reasoning all the time, and there are plenty of others who do the same.
The number of times where I have done something similar to what void did is incredibly high, so I dont think that the argument of time needed to post is relevant here.
Also, I am pretty sure after reading through this game, its quite obvious that MTGS needs chamber to return. The amount of superfluous questions being asked and answered is off the charts.
I ask for votes when I want more votes. Before, after, during. It makes no difference.
Typically asking for votes implies that one has proven the reason why said person deserves voting, hence the existance of a case. Not having said case and still asking for votes comes across wrong.
Quote from artifice »
@The Artist formerly known as Tezz: How would knowning someone's race tell them who to Nightkill? There should be 3 races (at least) in this game. And there are 24 players. 19 targets, assuming 5 scum, does not get narrower with a race claim. A full claim, sure, but not a race soft claim.
I want to know if the scum are of one race (see vezok's claim mistake in some game I can't remember). If the soft claim comes up empty on one of the three races, we'll know something, yes? It is a very valid place to start.
The chances of somebody messing up a race claim are slim (but possible, as Vez did it, and if you search back about 4 years ago, I did it too in RotK mafia), but I do believe that in this case, its quite possible for the race claim to help the scum. Not this night perhaps, but 2-3 nights from now when the scum can look and say, well 3-4 people of this race are dead and they all seem to be pretty powerful, I wonder what happens if we keep hitting them, or so on. Its completely gaming the mod, yet is a scenario that we do influence. Now, I completely believe that I am reaching in this scenario and that a race claim would do more to lock claims into place, so I am in favor of it, despite the potential for side effects.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
Yeah, I'm not even going to qualify that "case" with a response.
When you're making points like this:
Quote from Artifice 101 »
This language reads as though you're just using it to deliberately distance yourself from your own alignment.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
This is the forced language I'm refering to. The fact that there's a quote by me in this post that is out of position shows that TIM thought LONG and HARD about how he was going to phrase this response, and made an editting error in the process. This self awareness is scummy.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Why is there a disconnect in the middle of this post? The two things you quote have nothing to do with each other. At this point you're desperation to find a flaw in your attackers is telling.
I'm actually flabbergasted that some of that just came out of your mouth. If you're town, you should read and be ashamed of yourself.
Oh yeah ad hom that totally makes your case seem more legit.
And that's completely fine. But ONLY until people ask you for that reasoning. You're reluctantly saying anything and you're hating on the people who are asking for clarification. Your tone has just become so bad over the last few posts.
I've made up my mind.
Die scum.
Unvote, Vote: TheIceMan
I've made up my mind. You are opportunistic and paranoid.
Yeah, I'm not even going to qualify that "case" with a response.
When you're making points like this:
I'm actually flabbergasted that some of that just came out of your mouth. If you're town, you should read and be ashamed of yourself.
"If I ignore your case, it disappears!"
At what point will you start taking these things
Seriously? Your shouting at the crowd
Is in no way reasonable. It's just
Posturing, ravings of a cornered scum.
I fail to see how not knowing who are town and who are scum implicates town any more than it implicates neutral, or some position where you arent sure if more of the same race as you are the same alignment.
Scum know eachother, right? In other words, scum knows if the fractions of this game is divided by race (ie all scum are zerg, then there's a reasonable chance no one else is). Town do not know, and is therefore at a disadvantage. I do not believe that power-roles are divided by race, this is simply not necessary when the lore presents so many powerful individuals in the different races.
(This is all ofc in the case that flavour actually matters at all. If it doesn't, then the softclaim is not hurting us one bit anyway.)
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
EWP: @Void: thank you for that very townie post. Now, please answer the question about whether or not you're planning on doing anything nutty this game.
So you are willing to let others peer pressure you into deciding whether or not to name claim? Seems as though you are trying too hard to please FoS Void (this is not at all related to TheIceMan's case, which I dont buy)
If you look back to RVS, I called Burst on peer pressure. Burst pressured more and got my response of "Never! :D"
The big part about claiming is making sure that everyone agrees to it. This is why I responded in the way I did. The fact that you are blantantly ignoring this reason is bothersome to me.
We could possibly find scum if they claim a scummy race, although the chances of scum doing that seem really low.
If the chances are low then why is it worth the risk?
The problem I see here is the fact that we have a huge Risk and based on the flavor I've read not much reward.
Why is it fishing, when AE posted something about his character. AE, IMO, admited to having a PR, when he requested not be targeted. I'm looking forward to AE's response.
Why is it fishing, when AE posted something about his character. AE, IMO, admited to having a PR, when he requested not be targeted. I'm looking forward to AE's response.
Judging from the post if we know his role it will be useless for the town to not target him.
Hence why he said "take a leap of faith"
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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I don't see the point of this softclaim. Usually I'm all for softclaims, but it's doing nothing for me here. Is it going to lock scum into their claims? Maybe, but who knows if their claims are even problematic to be locked into? We've got no flavor to go on besides "someone is dead." It could've been any of the three races who killed him, it could've been Kerrigan, it could've been Samir Duran, or it could've been Elvis. We've got nothing.
If we proceed with it, I will participate, but I'm voting "not at this time."
So yeah, I've slept on it and decided that Artifice 101 is probably scum. Unvote. Vote: Artifice 101. My gut reaction to the case was that it was just a really bad case and that Artifice was town. However, the more I think about it the more I think that's unlikely. Some salient points:
One of Artifice's biggest "points" against me was the so-called "painting up innocent things and trying to make them look like scum-tells". Whether or not you agree that Void's smiley was significant, the level of hypocrisy in Artifice's post is amazing. You don't make points like this:
Quote from Artifice 101 »
You're not even saying anything. The fact that he used the word "case" is now a scum tell? GTFOOH
and then proceed to call someone scum for editing their posts incorrectly. I refuse to believe that Artifice is so oblivious to this; hence, he must be scum.
The second - and larger - point I discovered while thinking about this part of the PBPA:
Quote from TheIceMan (in Artifice"s PBPA) »
EBWOP: @Wheat: I provided my clarification in the very next post after I was asked to do so.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Quote and restate this exchange, please?
Artifice was going through the entire game analyzing my posts - he even quoted the post where I explained my town read on Burst - yet he failed to even check and see whether that lined up with my story. Consider that one of the big "accusations" out there against me is that I wasn't explaining myself properly. It would have been a kind of big deal to check out whether that accusation was actually factual or not, and kind of one of the points of making a PBPA in general (so you can have a better view as to whether the "case" on someone is, in fact, backed up by their posts throughout the whole game). So Artifice deliberately chose not to do a little bit of research (despite going through the effort to make an entire PBPA) which would have made me look townie.
Put simply, Artifice had decided that I was scum before he made his PBPA and chose to a) do the same thing he was criticizing me for doing in an effort to make me out to be scum and b) research only things that made me look further like scum. I realize this could be a case of confirmation bias on Artifice's part, but I'm inclined to think it's not. Why? Because Artifice has been made aware in many recent games that coming up with reads before you come up with the PBPA or case is a bad thing. Most recently, he nearly got lynched for it in Ender's Mafia. Town Artifice is better than that. This, though, is scum Artifice.
So yeah, I've slept on it and decided that Artifice 101 is probably scum. Unvote. Vote: Artifice 101. My gut reaction to the case was that it was just a really bad case and that Artifice was town. However, the more I think about it the more I think that's unlikely. Some salient points:
One of Artifice's biggest "points" against me was the so-called "painting up innocent things and trying to make them look like scum-tells". Whether or not you agree that Void's smiley was significant, the level of hypocrisy in Artifice's post is amazing. You don't make points like this:
and then proceed to call someone scum for editing their posts incorrectly. I refuse to believe that Artifice is so oblivious to this; hence, he must be scum.
The second - and larger - point I discovered while thinking about this part of the PBPA:
Artifice was going through the entire game analyzing my posts - he even quoted the post where I explained my town read on Burst - yet he failed to even check and see whether that lined up with my story. Consider that one of the big "accusations" out there against me is that I wasn't explaining myself properly. It would have been a kind of big deal to check out whether that accusation was actually factual or not, and kind of one of the points of making a PBPA in general (so you can have a better view as to whether the "case" on someone is, in fact, backed up by their posts throughout the whole game). So Artifice deliberately chose not to do a little bit of research (despite going through the effort to make an entire PBPA) which would have made me look townie.
Put simply, Artifice had decided that I was scum before he made his PBPA and chose to a) do the same thing he was criticizing me for doing in an effort to make me out to be scum and b) research only things that made me look further like scum. I realize this could be a case of confirmation bias on Artifice's part, but I'm inclined to think it's not. Why? Because Artifice has been made aware in many recent games that coming up with reads before you come up with the PBPA or case is a bad thing. Most recently, he nearly got lynched for it in Ender's Mafia. Town Artifice is better than that. This, though, is scum Artifice.
I can talk about ongoing games as long as im talking about the facts of what happened D1. I'm not saying anything that anyone reading that game couldn't objectively observe for themselves.
I can talk about ongoing games as long as im talking about the facts of what happened D1. I'm not saying anything that anyone reading that game couldn't objectively observe for themselves.
Uh, no, no you can't. Until a game is over, you do NOT talk about it.
And I've observed town Artifice before, and I've seen him act like this. I have not seen scum Art though, IIRC, so I'm not making any claims that he's town or scum, just that you're response to him has been really scummy lately.
I mean seriously, "I'm not going to qualify that case with a response"?? If the case is as bad as you say, destroy it with logic, point by point.
If the chances are low then why is it worth the risk?
The problem I see here is the fact that we have a huge Risk and based on the flavor I've read not much reward.
Because, like Arti said, if everyone claims they're the town race, we'll know something's up.
Reading and monitoring interactions is scum hunting. That's what I do. I don't have to stir the pot to see what's in it.
No, its not. Hunting is an action made public. By your definition, every lurker ever is scumhunting and can use that as a defense.
As for your case, TIM has already shown that your contridicting your own case against TIM with your actions. Not to mention your entire case shows that TIM is scumhunting, but your finding that scummy. "He's using words to show intent!!!! SCUM!!!"
"If I ignore your case, it disappears!"
At what point will you start taking these things
Seriously? Your shouting at the crowd
Is in no way reasonable. It's just
Posturing, ravings of a cornered scum.
Did you read the case? Why not comment on the case instead of slinging mud?
I don't see the point of this softclaim. Usually I'm all for softclaims, but it's doing nothing for me here. Is it going to lock scum into their claims? Maybe, but who knows if their claims are even problematic to be locked into? We've got no flavor to go on besides "someone is dead." It could've been any of the three races who killed him, it could've been Kerrigan, it could've been Samir Duran, or it could've been Elvis. We've got nothing.
If we proceed with it, I will participate, but I'm voting "not at this time."
Art is on the board at "possible scum #2."
Softclaim is pointless if you know anything about the game. It just goes to show that Art is looking for something to seem useful rather than scumhunt.
It was posted a couple of hours ago and I didn't read it yet. Sorry?
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
I meant it. Looked like a nice way to get the conversation started.
I believe at this stage that TheIceMan is scumhunting, that Artifice is trying to categorize the players (implying that he don't know who are town and scum, ergo he is town), and that GigaRage's vote for a no-lynch is strange.
I support the matter of the softclaim. It might reveal factions in the game (like how many scum, how many town, possible masons or something), and I see that as information that is useful for town to have.
From the little experience I have from reading other games and such I think Yanni and Burst are town.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Sure am.
*whistles* Hey guys over here. Lets get some more votes this way.
I'm in on the softclaim. I believe it might help with my role.
I'm going to put this out there. If the town PR's can take a leap of faith on me and not target me early on that'd be real helpful for us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
You're worried about Wheat Fence sitting too much?
scumbag
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Yes I have. I didn't respond because I did not find the question serious. My bad.
There are times when I am typing a post or reading the thread when a visitor or staff member will approach me and I don't catch them coming on camera. At the point I minimize the window, instead of closing out like i prefer. This only happens when I get caught off guard. I also have a "Code Phone" I have to respond to in moments notice when it rings. I work for Hospital with a Trauma Center. I try to type when it's not busy, but it is hard to tell when it will be. Hope that helps.
1) I didn't want to elaborate more, because it is getting into my personal life. Something you, and everyone else, don't need to know. Seeing as how it was pushed, I responded above. (No offense to anyone here, but my life is my life, not yours. :))
2) What word would you have used?
3) Your coming after me with reasons that are flawed IMO. That is a null tell to me, because town can to it just as much as mafia.
What's with the sudden change in behavior? It's not like you are close to being lynched.
Now you post no content and are becoming more defensive.
Vote: TheIceMan
It was your 180 in behavior for me. You got what 4 votes on you> (Estimate from reading, I have not counted) and you got defensive and stopped posting content. Behavior Analysis is good.
@Arti:
Race Claim? Not atm. If more agree, then I will.
1) See, I just don't buy it. You had time to time to post some witty link, you had time to make a joke vote, but you didn't have time make a one-line serious response.
2) The correct word at the time would have been accusation.
3) You used the word "reaching". Reaching implies that I'm actively trying to accuse you given behavior that is not accusation-worthy. Scum do this, town do not.
Because it's frustrating when I have to spell out my every action like you're all two. I call people town without neatly packaging up my reasoning all the time, and there are plenty of others who do the same.
Nah. I've had flat out non reasons to see what happens. This one is a legit reason. His posts have been stiff and meaningless, arguing the idea of having a smiley out of place. I've been busy composing, but a PBPA is likely in order.
No. I'm not acive lurking. You yourself state what I'm trying to do:
And actually I'm trying to grasp it. How about in the next post you tell me the story of what they hell is going on so far, since I know very little. That's what's bugging me. 5 or so scum have a QT somewhere where they have 5 times (again or so) the information that I have. I'm trying to level the playingfield harmlessly.
Why don't you quote those posts, and then misrep them again so I don't have to point out the context of what you just did.
Why?
I'm thinking the No Lynch was either an RVS thing or... well let me think about it. The middle thought is absolutely the truth. I'm lost here and need a foothold.
EWP: @Void: thank you for that very townie post. Now, please answer the question about whether or not you're planning on doing anything nutty this game.
Moar votes for TheIceMan, and more votes for whether you favor a soft claim or not as well.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
As for the starcraft flavor thingy, I'd say 2. The only major thing was someone got converted into Zerg, which was totally cool for me at that time. Everything else blanked.
I support the softclaim.
You were too defending yourself, quit lying.
Oh yeah ad hom that totally makes your case seem more legit.
And that's completely fine. But ONLY until people ask you for that reasoning. You're reluctantly saying anything and you're hating on the people who are asking for clarification. Your tone has just become so bad over the last few posts.
I've made up my mind.
Die scum.
Unvote, Vote: TheIceMan
Because flavor is vital to understanding games, right? Because that's really going to help you catch scum, right? Oh wait, hold on...
You realize this would be more effective if you didn't do it in every single post ever. You also aren't nearly good enough at this game to pull this off - you're not Cyan, you're not AI - people aren't going to instinctively trust your cases, and they're not going to start anytime soon when they're as bad as this one.
My issue is more your tone than anything else. It strikes me as scummy.
Do we have an up to date count on that one?
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
I don't.
No, I'm me. Ad hom is swell.
And they shouldn't I might be scum.
So my case, which I haven't even made yet, is bad? Hmm.
Yeah I think your scum. Like I said, PBPA incoming.
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Usually you ask for votes after you've made a case.
Vote: No on softclaim
scumbag
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What benefit would a softclaim provide to the scum?
We could possibly find scum if they claim a scummy race, although the chances of scum doing that seem really low.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
Why do you want to not be targeted, are you a miller, or a dreamer of some sort?
Also it helps that Void was my mentor recently and he's purely town in this game. He's genuine, sincere, and realistic. If he were scum it would be patently obvious to me. He's town. Deal.
How does posting a question about another players post rather than acknowledging your terrible vote have to do with Void being scum? You're painting here, and you're scum for it.
Why?
Since when is being busy with real-life things a scum tell? Especially in this context.
This language reads as though you're just using it to deliberately distance yourself from your own alignment.
So you've created a dichotomy?
So who do you think comes off scummy in the exchange? Heartwork, Wheat_Grinder? It sounds as though you believe both, while defending one player against the other.
Bolded shows a scummy qualifier. If you read the exchange as I've posted it above, it was obviously conversational and calm, not caught scum squirming. BESIDES they were talking about VOTING the MOD. Seriously.
I'm curious as well.
1) So you[Void] tried to explain yourself in your previous post. As it stands, you presented a false representation of your behavior and are now refusing to elaborate further. [/quote]He's elaborated, after being browbeaten by you.
Yeah, you're trying to use formal language to make you case stronger here.
You're not even saying anything. The fact that he used the word "case" is now a scum tell? GTFOOH
So you can label it an OMGUS and try to get him lynched for it? You know better than this TIM. Now please, go ahead and get lynched so we can see what scum looks like in this game.
Minimizing legitimate supposition as to the motives of other players is terrible and scummy
This is the forced language I'm refering to. The fact that there's a quote by me in this post that is out of position shows that TIM thought LONG and HARD about how he was going to phrase this response, and made an editting error in the process. This self awareness is scummy.
Null. Just rallying for more bad votes.
Reading and monitoring interactions is scum hunting. That's what I do. I don't have to stir the pot to see what's in it.
Now I'm wagoning you, because I believe I've seen scummy behavior, and your reticence and resistence to a simple soft claim that, as you say later, shouldn't effect the game in a vital way.
Ad hom. I've played plenty. My success rate is pretty high so far.
Sometimes it is, but this is WIFOM.
Wow. Arrogant superior dismissal of our opinions. You're not kpaca, you're not Seppel (see what I can do, too.).
See above. Also, if you're at a loss for words, why so many words? If you were literally at a loss, you would stop talking. My standards seem ok by me.
You're making sure, here, we know how frustrated you are. I see this as an act.
Null conversation with Burst.
To address #3, that's exactly what I'm saying you are doing. You're paining up innocent things and trying to make them scum tells. They aren't there. You're also arguing semantics rather than actually finding scum tells.
First of all, can you restate the first sentence?
Second, what does what others do have to do with what we believe you are doing here and now? It doesn't excuse what we're suspecting you of doing.
Why is there a disconnect in the middle of this post? The two things you quote have nothing to do with each other. At this point you're desperation to find a flaw in your attackers is telling.
Quote and restate this exchange, please?
I ask for votes when I want more votes. Before, after, during. It makes no difference.
=================================
Let me know if I've made any mistakes on this, please.
@The Artist formerly known as Tezz: How would knowning someone's race tell them who to Nightkill? There should be 3 races (at least) in this game. And there are 24 players. 19 targets, assuming 5 scum, does not get narrower with a race claim. A full claim, sure, but not a race soft claim.
I want to know if the scum are of one race (see vezok's claim mistake in some game I can't remember). If the soft claim comes up empty on one of the three races, we'll know something, yes? It is a very valid place to start.
@Archonoid: Valid questions are valid.
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So you are willing to let others peer pressure you into deciding whether or not to name claim? Seems as though you are trying too hard to please
FoS Void (this is not at all related to TheIceMan's case, which I dont buy)
The number of times where I have done something similar to what void did is incredibly high, so I dont think that the argument of time needed to post is relevant here.
Also, I am pretty sure after reading through this game, its quite obvious that MTGS needs chamber to return. The amount of superfluous questions being asked and answered is off the charts.
Typically asking for votes implies that one has proven the reason why said person deserves voting, hence the existance of a case. Not having said case and still asking for votes comes across wrong.
The chances of somebody messing up a race claim are slim (but possible, as Vez did it, and if you search back about 4 years ago, I did it too in RotK mafia), but I do believe that in this case, its quite possible for the race claim to help the scum. Not this night perhaps, but 2-3 nights from now when the scum can look and say, well 3-4 people of this race are dead and they all seem to be pretty powerful, I wonder what happens if we keep hitting them, or so on. Its completely gaming the mod, yet is a scenario that we do influence. Now, I completely believe that I am reaching in this scenario and that a race claim would do more to lock claims into place, so I am in favor of it, despite the potential for side effects.
When you're making points like this:
I'm actually flabbergasted that some of that just came out of your mouth. If you're town, you should read and be ashamed of yourself.
I've made up my mind. You are opportunistic and paranoid.
vote: W_G
Always up for a soft claim. Race sounds good.
Return to Amistaria
Unvote Vote gigarage
Wolf with a Bass: 0
Archmage Eternal: 1 (zindabad)
MzztrTetris: 0
Void: 1 (TheIceMan)
Yanni: 0
Archonoid: 0
Burstinatrix: 0
zindabad: 0
mystery meat of doom: 1 (creampuffeater)
Artifice 101: 1 (Arcadic)
Brinatoo: 0
GigaRage: 1 (TheFooFish)
Wheat_Grinder: 2 (Archmage Eternal, Brinatoo)
TheIceMan: 6 (Artifice 101, infectiousbaloth, Yanni, TheBard, Void, Wheat_Grinder)
Prophylaxis: 0
Heartwork: 0
creampuffeater: 0
TheBard: 0
Audinho: 0
Mephit: 0
Arcadic: 0
Freaknik: 0
TheFooFish: 0
infectiousbaloth: 2 (Archonoid, mystery meat of doom)
No Lynch: 1 (GigaRage)
With 24 alive, it is 13 to lynch or 12 to no lynch.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
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MafiaScum Wiki Page
Wins/Losses/Draws
13/2/1
"If I ignore your case, it disappears!"
At what point will you start taking these things
Seriously? Your shouting at the crowd
Is in no way reasonable. It's just
Posturing, ravings of a cornered scum.
Because I can.
It was random.
We were in random voting stage.
All of the above.
-Choose any of those answers.
Allready answered.
Scum know eachother, right? In other words, scum knows if the fractions of this game is divided by race (ie all scum are zerg, then there's a reasonable chance no one else is). Town do not know, and is therefore at a disadvantage. I do not believe that power-roles are divided by race, this is simply not necessary when the lore presents so many powerful individuals in the different races.
(This is all ofc in the case that flavour actually matters at all. If it doesn't, then the softclaim is not hurting us one bit anyway.)
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
No, I will not do anything nutty.
If you look back to RVS, I called Burst on peer pressure. Burst pressured more and got my response of "Never! :D"
The big part about claiming is making sure that everyone agrees to it. This is why I responded in the way I did. The fact that you are blantantly ignoring this reason is bothersome to me.
I meant to include this just above the quote from GigaRage.
If the chances are low then why is it worth the risk?
The problem I see here is the fact that we have a huge Risk and based on the flavor I've read not much reward.
Why are you fishing?
Artifice, why are you assuming 5 Scum?
scumbag
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Why is it fishing, when AE posted something about his character. AE, IMO, admited to having a PR, when he requested not be targeted. I'm looking forward to AE's response.
Judging from the post if we know his role it will be useless for the town to not target him.
Hence why he said "take a leap of faith"
scumbag
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I don't see the point of this softclaim. Usually I'm all for softclaims, but it's doing nothing for me here. Is it going to lock scum into their claims? Maybe, but who knows if their claims are even problematic to be locked into? We've got no flavor to go on besides "someone is dead." It could've been any of the three races who killed him, it could've been Kerrigan, it could've been Samir Duran, or it could've been Elvis. We've got nothing.
If we proceed with it, I will participate, but I'm voting "not at this time."
Art is on the board at "possible scum #2."
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Please explain why. The absolute here is bothering me.
One of Artifice's biggest "points" against me was the so-called "painting up innocent things and trying to make them look like scum-tells". Whether or not you agree that Void's smiley was significant, the level of hypocrisy in Artifice's post is amazing. You don't make points like this:
and then proceed to call someone scum for editing their posts incorrectly. I refuse to believe that Artifice is so oblivious to this; hence, he must be scum.
The second - and larger - point I discovered while thinking about this part of the PBPA:
Artifice was going through the entire game analyzing my posts - he even quoted the post where I explained my town read on Burst - yet he failed to even check and see whether that lined up with my story. Consider that one of the big "accusations" out there against me is that I wasn't explaining myself properly. It would have been a kind of big deal to check out whether that accusation was actually factual or not, and kind of one of the points of making a PBPA in general (so you can have a better view as to whether the "case" on someone is, in fact, backed up by their posts throughout the whole game). So Artifice deliberately chose not to do a little bit of research (despite going through the effort to make an entire PBPA) which would have made me look townie.
Put simply, Artifice had decided that I was scum before he made his PBPA and chose to a) do the same thing he was criticizing me for doing in an effort to make me out to be scum and b) research only things that made me look further like scum. I realize this could be a case of confirmation bias on Artifice's part, but I'm inclined to think it's not. Why? Because Artifice has been made aware in many recent games that coming up with reads before you come up with the PBPA or case is a bad thing. Most recently, he nearly got lynched for it in Ender's Mafia. Town Artifice is better than that. This, though, is scum Artifice.
Please do not talk about ongoing games.
I can talk about ongoing games as long as im talking about the facts of what happened D1. I'm not saying anything that anyone reading that game couldn't objectively observe for themselves.
Uh, no, no you can't. Until a game is over, you do NOT talk about it.
And I've observed town Artifice before, and I've seen him act like this. I have not seen scum Art though, IIRC, so I'm not making any claims that he's town or scum, just that you're response to him has been really scummy lately.
I mean seriously, "I'm not going to qualify that case with a response"?? If the case is as bad as you say, destroy it with logic, point by point.
Ignorance is bliss, right? Refusal to defend yourself noted.
Also, Vote TheIceMan, for reasons already mentioned and your constant refusal to reply to people's points against you.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
Because, like Arti said, if everyone claims they're the town race, we'll know something's up.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
No, its not. Hunting is an action made public. By your definition, every lurker ever is scumhunting and can use that as a defense.
As for your case, TIM has already shown that your contridicting your own case against TIM with your actions. Not to mention your entire case shows that TIM is scumhunting, but your finding that scummy. "He's using words to show intent!!!! SCUM!!!"
I like this vote.
Did you read the case? Why not comment on the case instead of slinging mud?
Do not fish for role info. He's given all the info we need.
Softclaim is pointless if you know anything about the game. It just goes to show that Art is looking for something to seem useful rather than scumhunt.
Why u no comment on the case?
Why you no comment on case? Do you think Art's points are valid and solid? (If so you obviously didn't read them)
And the town race is what exactly?
Piece by piece discetion of the art PBPA incoming.
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