I'm gonna ask some questions that were asked by someone else in another ongoing game, just to move things along.
1) How active of a player are you?
2) Please link if able a finished game you were town and scum (one of each is all I ask).
3) Do you think RVS gives you information about players?
1. Once per day. More if interesting things are happening.
2. Unable.
3. Yes.
The only information this could reveal is that which is useful to scum. Either the response will give us nothing in-game to go on, or will give away elements of the answerer's role. Do. Not. Like.
Assume he's new to the site. How does that change the result?
I don’t like this role information. My thought is that this could be a RoleBlocker of some sort. (Based on that occupation) Don’t feel comfortable enough to vote because of this reasoning though.
Why would that reasoning even get you anywhere close to feeling comfortable to vote?
If anybody doesn't get why, read the quoted post, and ask yourself how it isn't scummy.
Assume he's new to the site. How does that affect the result?
Also, I assume there's a reason why you're not stating the reason why that post is 'scummy' yourself. Explain.
The ****? That was a quick bandwagon on Tetris. I see the reasons; he jumped on Dragon very quickly for his weird opening post (Something I commented on, Cyan too I think). Not sure if I'm comfortable with a lynch there, though I've seen people get lynched over less on day one.
I guess a better summary is: do I feel comfortable blindly following Cyan on sheer merit of him being Cyan?
Cyan's usually pretty spot-on with his reads, but I don't really agree with this.
Why?
I have literally never done this or seen it be used to catch someone. Not that it doesn't happen, but I don't put as much stock in it as you apparently do.
Why is putting stock in such a tell such a bad thing, as you seem to be implying? What's so wrong about it?
1) How active of a player are you?
2) Please link if able a finished game you were town and scum (one of each is all I ask).
3) Do you think RVS gives you information about players?
1) Depends on if I get my homework done. If I don't, I can lurk for days. Which sucks cuz I love mafia.
2) My Stats blog has links to every game you'll need. (Reminds me. It needs updating.)
3) It can, certainly.
I don’t like this role information. My thought is that this could be a RoleBlocker of some sort. (Based on that occupation) Don’t feel comfortable enough to vote because of this reasoning though.
Flavor gaming much? This line of thought won't get you far.
Concerning Bolly: I'm going to need to look over some old games of his, but if he's never been in a big game such as this, or has acted like this before in a big game, he's town. The paranoia is already making him look good to me. But in the situation/s I've described I would be pretty much certain.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Interesting. Bold-red is the standard on my forum, so it's force of habit I guess. Mods have a special line-break in posts for when they make edits. I don't mean to attack your forum, but you guys have super low tech. IMO, your forums are badly in need of an upgrade. If a place like mine with only hundreds or low thousands of active users can have kick-ass forum software, a forum with as many users as you have should be able to have the same.
The purpose of a "counter-vote" is to get someone to explain themselves more thoroughly. Basically, it says that I'm declaring war on him. He can either explain his vote and try to sway people to vote for me, or he can back off if his logic isn't actually strong enough for a confrontation. I don't generally do this past the RVS, but I'm still in RVS personally. I don't have enough information for a real vote yet. So to be clear:
Vote MzztrTetris (And I'll back off when he does.)
I got a friend to unban me on my forum. (April fools day joke, long story.) So now I can post examples of games where I was scum and town: Town - It's hard to give a good example here because I'm usually lynched early when I'm town. People naturally find me scummy. I've been taken out day 1 or night 1 most of the times I've been town. This one was a ridiculously high powered and hard to balance game, and combined with lucky day 1 lynching made the town win easily. The next best examples I could give would be when I was a third party and chose to ally myself with the town. (Which I almost always do given a choice.) Scum - The hilarious counterpoint to the above, is that I'm very rarely discovered when I'm mafia. I either survived till the end game or intentionally sacrificed myself for a strategic advantage almost every time. In this game, I play the godfather. However, the town has an unbreakable protection set-up around their three power characters and the mafia have a spy in their ranks. I eventually discover the spy and sacrifice myself (I was also a bomb in addition to being the godfather.) in order to break the protection leaving my team to clean up and almost take the game - only to discover the town had more hidden abilities right at the end which finish us off.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
The ****? That was a quick bandwagon on Tetris. I see the reasons; he jumped on Dragon very quickly for his weird opening post (Something I commented on, Cyan too I think). Not sure if I'm comfortable with a lynch there, though I've seen people get lynched over less on day one.
I guess a better summary is: do I feel comfortable blindly following Cyan on sheer merit of him being Cyan?
Are you serious? He has all of 2 votes. I guess 3 if you count DH's 'countervote'.
And commenting on something strange is not the same as voting over something strange when you've had no other posts in the thread thus far.
Assume that he is new to the site. How does that change the result.
Repeat question to anyone who finds Dragonheart scummy due to that.
I don't believe the site has anything to do with it. Why would being new to the site change it? Just because he comes from a different site doesn't change the fact that it doesn't seem like a town perspective.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
To be perfectly honest, I've only played around 8 mafias ever. Beyond that, my forum does a lot of things differently than standard mafia. (Some of which I am convinced are very wrong and I plan to take it up with our version of the mafia council.)
I really don't know what your customs are and I'm only a moderately experienced mafia player overall. Between those two things, I feel very alien here. When you combine that with my natural tendency to come across as scummy, (Due to my personality, regardless of mafia alignment. Heck, sometimes people accuse me of being scummy outside of mafia games!) I can easily understand how a few of you could feel that way. I like spurring discussion on and I like taking big risks. Sometimes that pays off huge, and sometimes it gets me lynched on day 1.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Oh, for an example of where it paid off, click the link for the mafia where I was town. Near the end of the game, I completely turned against my ally and accused him of being mafia when he was basically the only reason the townsfolk were able to win at all. But, this drew out the real mafia members who sided with me and bandwagoned on him. Then I flipped back and revealed what I had done, now with solid evidence of who the mafia members were. We ended the game right there. (The town had a day kill + the lynch to finish off both remaining mafia members.)
That gambit was extremely fun and I just re-read the game again reminding myself how awesome it felt.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Because there was no explanation, and there's no way 'the above post' to which he referred was anything other than a joke.
I find your stance self-contradictory. You said it surprised you that you got an explanation from me - yet you knew my vote was serious. Would you have known my vote was serious had I not stated it was, given that I didn't immediately explain? If so, then how can you say that you didn't believe AI's vote was serious? If that's the case, why didn't you ask AI to explain his vote? If not, then why did it surprise you that you got an explanation from me?
You've got some 'splainin' to do.
Quote from Chickenfish »
I think you misunderstood. I didn't do it to make light of my vote - my intention was the exact opposite. There's a chance that is was so early in the game that people may have thought I was making an RVS vote, but I was letting them know that I wasn't.
But what I'm saying is that your choice of language and tone moderated your vote - do you understand?
Quote from Chickenfish »
But, umm, I wasn't defending myself?
Either way, not much I can say about the way I talk, so I guess either you'll get past it or let it convince you I'm scum!
I don’t like this role information. My thought is that this could be a RoleBlocker of some sort. (Based on that occupation) Don’t feel comfortable enough to vote because of this reasoning though.
Holy god I already like Void this game. My line of thought, exactly.
AI, tell me more about your scum read on Chickenfish, aside from the moderating language I made a note of.
#3 What is a "normal" game defined as? Does that mean we can expect a certain set-up of abilities? I have no idea what "normal mafia" means to you guys.
3. There's a lovely definition for a Normal game in our Mafia Hosting Thread.
Quote from Dragonheart91 »
So on that note, why would it be scummy to talk about your roles? Granted, lots of people like to keep that to themselves for various strategic reasons. But anyone who wants to share isn't doing any harm by sharing.
Because if you're town, it gives the scum information about the setup they didn't have before, and if you're scum, it generates WIFOM for the town to wade through. Both anti-town actions, regardless of alignment, as well as the fact that we then have to figure out which the information-dropper is.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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The purpose of a "counter-vote" is to get someone to explain themselves more thoroughly. Basically, it says that I'm declaring war on him. He can either explain his vote and try to sway people to vote for me, or he can back off if his logic isn't actually strong enough for a confrontation.
We call it an OMGUS (oh my god you suck) vote and generally they dont do much but make yourself look bad
in this case I would say its fine as Tezz really needs to back up that vote with some better justification IMO
Seeing as this game already started and I have no time to devote to it atm and I'm a miller I'm posting just for opening discussion.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The ****? That was a quick bandwagon on Tetris. I see the reasons; he jumped on Dragon very quickly for his weird opening post (Something I commented on, Cyan too I think). Not sure if I'm comfortable with a lynch there, though I've seen people get lynched over less on day one.
I guess a better summary is: do I feel comfortable blindly following Cyan on sheer merit of him being Cyan?
This post is so very awkward, and probably the reason Ged voted you.
Technically, the burden of proof falls on you, good sir.
That said, Zelderex is simultaneously expressing concern at the perceived speed of the wagon while looking for a way to jump onto it. I don't see this as bussing so much as yelling, "I'm a helpful townie (but not really)."
I realize this; I was merely commenting that I like that Void's train of thought parallels my own here. It shows a similar mindset, if you follow.
Quote from AsianInvasion »
His posts are extremely inconsistent in tone. They alternate between aggressive and defensive even within the same post.
Good to have you, town AI.
In regards to Zelderex, I don't see why he isn't being extended the same "your playstyle is weird because you're from elsewhere" courtesy that Dragon is - I can attest to the fact that Zeld is from a completely different Mafia environment than we're used to on MTGS. I know this because I play there, too.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The ****? That was a quick bandwagon on Tetris. I see the reasons; he jumped on Dragon very quickly for his weird opening post (Something I commented on, Cyan too I think). Not sure if I'm comfortable with a lynch there, though I've seen people get lynched over less on day one.
I guess a better summary is: do I feel comfortable blindly following Cyan on sheer merit of him being Cyan?
God what a horrible post. What bugs me the most about it is that he's willing to follow cyan for no other reason than he's cyan. Sure, his fearmongering about a quick lynch is bad, but i think its even worse that he attempts to justify a future vote by simply stating he /barn's cyan.
I don't believe the site has anything to do with it. Why would being new to the site change it? Just because he comes from a different site doesn't change the fact that it doesn't seem like a town perspective.
Because it has everything to do with it? I mean, did you read any of his posts? I fail to see how someone can read his posts and not see that he's the orange in a bucket of apples.
I like this vote, but like..do you think Zelderex can be scum without MzztrTetris also being scum?
Almost certainly. Tzzt is not the strongest town player, and Zelderex's fence-sitting post can come from cautious scum regardless of whether or not Tzz is his buddy.
Technically, the burden of proof falls on you, good sir.
That said, Zelderex is simultaneously expressing concern at the perceived speed of the wagon while looking for a way to jump onto it. I don't see this as bussing so much as yelling, "I'm a helpful townie (but not really)."
Put it in words better than i could. Posts like these seem to rarely come from concerned townies and instead come from newb scum trying to look involved. Vote Zelderex
@Dragon: I'm PB. I range from attacking questionable emotional and foaming at the mouth type to calm and rationale depending on things going on in the game.
I try my best to remain detached and calm for the most part but fail 9 times out of 10.
But I still try because I know it helps me in hunting for scum better.
I drive though asking questions and trying to determine if someone is feeding me lines or if there is truth to their statement.
What people believe and what they claim, ect. Oh and I have been playing mafia for over 4 years online, just started playing this site in July.
So I'm not allowed a random vote anymore? Fine, be that way...Unvote
Also, nice wagon jumping there.
Why did you say that Cyan was supergod and scary with your rationale as voting? Did you understand CF's view on his vote in post 26? If not why?
Quote from Iso post #39 »
You're missing my point - your "RVS be damned!" statement was a moderation of your vote in question - so while it was a serious vote, you attempted to make light of it with your tone, and that is the aspect of your statement I dislike.
Where in the world are you getting this from?
No I'm not talking a quote, I'm talking about the impression.
@AI: Did you take the comment from CF as jokey? If so why?
Quote from Bolly »
1) How active of a player are you?
2) Please link if able a finished game you were town and scum (one of each is all I ask).
3) Do you think RVS gives you information about players?
What made you ask these questions?
Why did you not ask questions that you want that are questions that you legitmately created yourself?
Why did you ask these questions with everything going on and Dragon's request for players already to discuss themselves?
@Archonoid: Why does it bother you that Niv put information out there?
The more the scum (mafia & anti-town neutrals) know about the town, the more easily they can kill important power roles. Meanwhile, the scum with scummy-sounding roles will lie and the others won't have to. Therefore, unless the scum are terrible at claiming, claiming hurts the town. I've played in games where I advocated a mass-claim, but this is not one of them. And outside of L-2, claiming is an all-or-nothing event: People should not claim out of order unless they have a very good reason (cop with guilty investigation being the primary counterexample).
What is your view on Niv claiming information in thread?
am I the only one who Finds Iso to be of issue in that exchange?
No.
I am still trying to finish reading the last few post but don't have time right now.
If I had a gun to my head for scum reads it is Bolly, Iso and AI. Will have reason's later.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@AI: I wasn't looking for proof really, just curious as to what other people thought. It's worth noting that the original question wasn't even directed at you.
Ultimately, I believe that Zelderex scumminess exists independent of Mzztr's. Zelderex starts out by trying to play the good guy and pointing out the 'quick bandwagon on Mzztr'. Putting aside the fact that it was actually not a quick bandwagon(even if you count Niv's pseudo vote, that is only 3 votes), he concludes by leaving himself an obvious opening to just jump on the wagon later anyway. And making it my responsibility if he does so.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@tordeck: You definitely do not always appear scummy. And Zelderex' post was just laughably and ridiculously bad. If he always posts like that, I don't know how he ever survives past Day 1.
The ****? That was a quick bandwagon on Tetris. I see the reasons; he jumped on Dragon very quickly for his weird opening post (Something I commented on, Cyan too I think). Not sure if I'm comfortable with a lynch there, though I've seen people get lynched over less on day one.
I guess a better summary is: do I feel comfortable blindly following Cyan on sheer merit of him being Cyan?
as just casting blanket suspicion on people because more suspicion is good for scum. Plus the "I've seen people get lynched over less" comment still leaves open the possibility that he's cool with a Tetris lynch all the same.
According to Google, the normal Miller role does not know he's a Miller. It's entirely possible that this is a special Miller role that is told at the start, but wouldn't it be more common to use the default role? You guys will know more about this than me, especially if there is a history of Millers knowing what they are on this forum. If I'm right in this, then I will have to second the request for the(a) Vigilante to kill DRey tonight.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
it's about 60/40 on this fourm whether or not millers know if they're millers or not, in favor of bieng self aware. Selfaware millers are common in all types of games as well here.
there are very few "default" roles on this site, only baseline ones.
a while back (read like 3 years, greenwood affair) in a normal I had a role where I was told I was un-target able, but in actuality I was target-able only by investigation, and was a miller.
as just casting blanket suspicion on people because more suspicion is good for scum. Plus the "I've seen people get lynched over less" comment still leaves open the possibility that he's cool with a Tetris lynch all the same.
That was the line that really got my suspicions up as well. To start out criticizing a wagon and then effectively go along with it 2 seconds later is scummy. To then immediately try to absolve yourself of responsibility for this is even worse.
Yeah, it could easily go either way. The "but I guess I could be persuaded to lynch eventually" tone could be a "I don't want to rule this person out as a miss-lynch" or a "when this person turns up scum I want to make it look like I had thought of that".
On millers: it's generally a good idea to just ignore the fact that a person has claimed miller with the exception of investigation roles should not target them. If they get scummy, we lynch them or vig them. If they play like town, we play like they're town.
since you seam to claim inside knowledge, what is scum play for zeld?
i do agree with cyan here, but I'd like to know then what you say a scummy zeld looks like if acting like traditional scum isn't his scum playstyle?
Well, Zeld is a scummy ****er at all times, so the best way to catch him is through his interactions and stances after we have a few flips. He did us the courtesy of linking us a town and scum game (both of which I believe I was in, actually) so if you want to understand Zelderex's play, best get to reading.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It was the impression that his tone gave me. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.
I don't see it. That is why I asked how you got that impression. You state tone but tone is not something heard it's gut, feeling and overall does it come across as something in the post that makes if feel off.
Quote from Bolly »
Rationale? What rationale? It was RVS. So no, I didn't understand CF's vote on me.
Did you read post 26 at all? What was your view on what CF stated other then it was RVS in your mind?
I wanted to start some discussion? Which it did...
Those questions kicked off discussion in the other game we're in so I used them again. I'd honestly forgotten you were in this game.
His request for "introductions" seemed a bit vague to me. Better to have solid questions, no?
1) bad logic. There was already a discussion in place
2) again there was a discussion going on
3) did you feel at the time you needed more information other then what Dragon was asking?
Players joking or lying about their random votes being random is the classic way to catch scum early Day One. I know I've been guilty of it at least once.
I like you as town.
Don't assume things about other players' votes unless they state their intentions specifically. Generally, I do not make more than one RVS vote because it's a waste of time.
I don't like you as town.
I'm torn on Bolly. Cyan got it right; he is extremely jumpy, but it is probably a stretch to say that he's been jumpy in a scummy way as opposed to just jumpy in general.
He says he's torn on Bolly but prior voted for him while accusing CF of being scummy. post 78
General comment that adds nothing to the game.
post 85 catches the vote by Niv that was a mod error but doesn't call niv out for lying or being scummy, just asking for an explination.
Technically, the burden of proof falls on you, good sir.
That said, Zelderex is simultaneously expressing concern at the perceived speed of the wagon while looking for a way to jump onto it. I don't see this as bussing so much as yelling, "I'm a helpful townie (but not really)."
You threw your vote on to Bolly, which appeared to be a serious vote. You had just stated that we were still in the RVS, when it should be fairly obvious that AI was being serious with his vote. Then, you moderate your vote terribly by making a joke with it, but still with the intent of your vote being serious. Finally, I don't like your diction choice in your post where you defend yourself from Bolly's accusation of wagon hopping.
I find this a bit stretch of imagination. One people tend to not be sure what is serious or not when a vote is being placed during RVS. I think trying to push something as obvious to you is not obvious to everyone and most know this that have played mafia for some time. I think CF still thought the vote was in RVS. Diction choice is vague. He didn't defend himself either. He made a statement that was factual towards Bolly's false accuation.
I find your stance self-contradictory. You said it surprised you that you got an explanation from me - yet you knew my vote was serious. Would you have known my vote was serious had I not stated it was, given that I didn't immediately explain? If so, then how can you say that you didn't believe AI's vote was serious? If that's the case, why didn't you ask AI to explain his vote? If not, then why did it surprise you that you got an explanation from me?
You've got some 'splainin' to do.
But what I'm saying is that your choice of language and tone moderated your vote - do you understand?
I find some of these questions rediculous. (1) Iso's meta and action in multiple games is you never know what your going to get. He goes from being mum to talkative when asked questions. So part of this is him knowing how he is as a player.
(2) He's trying to point out similiarites but I know more people notice a vote on themselves then on other people first and formost no matter their alligment.
I don't see why explaining how someone use of language that explained themselves and reason's is really a case. It's you said X it sounds bad. Other player is but I meant Y and this is what I was trying to say is typically up to whether you believe a person or not.
Instead of saying why he doesn't believe CF he says his views (which to me makes me think he's pushing more on his view then reading).
I really dislike this post:
Quote from Iso post 133 »
Holy god I already like Void this game. My line of thought, exactly.
AI, tell me more about your scum read on Chickenfish, aside from the moderating language I made a note of.
Iso never stated an issue with Niv. 2 sucking up to another player.
Would like to add to my scum list Void and Zeld
The TL'TR please stop my eyes from bleeding verision:
AI: isn't pushing things. He points things out then just fades away. His comments are more general statements without really making a case and just seems to being trying not to make any really waves. I have this Zeld/AI scum thought in my head based on AI's point and lack of vote on Zeld and holding onto a vote on Tezz when he states he doesn't see it as bussing. How can that be both Tezz and Zeld scum together then?
Iso: I find his comments/ case weak. He is a very self aware player of his actions in game and I think his push on CF comes off as aggressive but not strong. I also don't like when I see people say OMG I had the same thought and calling them town in such a way when they never brought up the point in the first place.
vote: AI
To come at a later date Bolly, Zeld and Void.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
@Iso: So we should wait to lynch someone that we suspect is scum, to see how he interacts with other players first. Of course, if we mislynch, then we gain nothing there.
@Iso: Do you know how you act when you play the game of mafia here?
How many times have you explained your reason's for voting when asked indepth compared to vague responses?
I try to switch up little bits and pieces from game to game. As for the second question, no idea.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
I don't see it. That is why I asked how you got that impression. You state tone but tone is not something heard it's gut, feeling and overall does it come across as something in the post that makes if feel off.
...yes?
Quote from pinkys_brain »
I find this a bit stretch of imagination. One people tend to not be sure what is serious or not when a vote is being placed during RVS. I think trying to push something as obvious to you is not obvious to everyone and most know this that have played mafia for some time. I think CF still thought the vote was in RVS. Diction choice is vague. He didn't defend himself either. He made a statement that was factual towards Bolly's false accuation.
So...you think I'm scummy because you and I interpreted the events in question differently?
Quote from pinkys_brain »
I find some of these questions rediculous. (1) Iso's meta and action in multiple games is you never know what your going to get. He goes from being mum to talkative when asked questions. So part of this is him knowing how he is as a player.
(2) He's trying to point out similiarites but I know more people notice a vote on themselves then on other people first and formost no matter their alligment.
1. Like I said, I like to change it up.
2. Similarities in what? I don't understand half of the **** you're pushing on me.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
I don't see why explaining how someone use of language that explained themselves and reason's is really a case. It's you said X it sounds bad. Other player is but I meant Y and this is what I was trying to say is typically up to whether you believe a person or not.
Instead of saying why he doesn't believe CF he says his views (which to me makes me think he's pushing more on his view then reading).
Again: What?
Quote from pinkys_brain »
Iso never stated an issue with Niv. 2 sucking up to another player.
Because I don't have an issue with Niv.
Roleblocker =/= Scum.
You are attempting to build a mountain out of the Grand Canyon and I don't like it.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
I also don't like when I see people say OMG I had the same thought and calling them town in such a way when they never brought up the point in the first place.
So a point of contention you have with me is, "Void has a similar mindset to my own, so therefore, Void is leaning town to me"? Let's break down why that's flawed.
Firstly, that is how I cleared Artifice in Random Mafia 4. I knew he was town because he and I had the exact same interpretation of events.
Secondly, you're suggesting that I couldn't have had that thought on my own, which is absolutely preposterous. Surely you haven't already forgotten 300 Mafia? The Roleblock flavor, created by our very own AI, was the Queen of Sparta sleeping with the player in question. I believe the falseclaim assigned to that was that of a prostitute. So no, it's not so far out of the realm of possibility for me to have had these thoughts, myself, as you are so strongly implying. And on that note, bite me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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we vote in bold black usually, or bold any colour but red.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
1. Once per day. More if interesting things are happening.
2. Unable.
3. Yes.
Maybe.
I assume there's more to this.
Assume he's new to the site. How does that change the result?
Why would that reasoning even get you anywhere close to feeling comfortable to vote?
@Mod: Did you miss my vote on Iso, or is there another reason why it's not counted here?
Assume he's new to the site. How does that affect the result?
Also, I assume there's a reason why you're not stating the reason why that post is 'scummy' yourself. Explain.
I guess a better summary is: do I feel comfortable blindly following Cyan on sheer merit of him being Cyan?
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
It didn't. If it had, then I would have at least FoS'd Niv for it. How did you draw that conclusion?
Let's start with a Vote NeedsMoreAssumptions for being a gimmick. Now Unvote and I shall read the game.
Gladly. I'm kill-joy. I got here slightly less than a year ago, and I love playing Mafia.
Why?
Why is putting stock in such a tell such a bad thing, as you seem to be implying? What's so wrong about it?
1) Depends on if I get my homework done. If I don't, I can lurk for days. Which sucks cuz I love mafia.
2) My Stats blog has links to every game you'll need. (Reminds me. It needs updating.)
3) It can, certainly.
Vote Dragonheart. I don't see this coming from a town perspective. Why would town worry about other people's roles so early in the game?
Flavor gaming much? This line of thought won't get you far.
What about Iso's play do you take issue with?
Concerning Bolly: I'm going to need to look over some old games of his, but if he's never been in a big game such as this, or has acted like this before in a big game, he's town. The paranoia is already making him look good to me. But in the situation/s I've described I would be pretty much certain.
Not comfortable enough to vote, but heading in that direction. I assume there was a reason for that?
The purpose of a "counter-vote" is to get someone to explain themselves more thoroughly. Basically, it says that I'm declaring war on him. He can either explain his vote and try to sway people to vote for me, or he can back off if his logic isn't actually strong enough for a confrontation. I don't generally do this past the RVS, but I'm still in RVS personally. I don't have enough information for a real vote yet. So to be clear:
Vote MzztrTetris (And I'll back off when he does.)
I got a friend to unban me on my forum. (April fools day joke, long story.) So now I can post examples of games where I was scum and town:
Town - It's hard to give a good example here because I'm usually lynched early when I'm town. People naturally find me scummy. I've been taken out day 1 or night 1 most of the times I've been town. This one was a ridiculously high powered and hard to balance game, and combined with lucky day 1 lynching made the town win easily. The next best examples I could give would be when I was a third party and chose to ally myself with the town. (Which I almost always do given a choice.)
Scum - The hilarious counterpoint to the above, is that I'm very rarely discovered when I'm mafia. I either survived till the end game or intentionally sacrificed myself for a strategic advantage almost every time. In this game, I play the godfather. However, the town has an unbreakable protection set-up around their three power characters and the mafia have a spy in their ranks. I eventually discover the spy and sacrifice myself (I was also a bomb in addition to being the godfather.) in order to break the protection leaving my team to clean up and almost take the game - only to discover the town had more hidden abilities right at the end which finish us off.
Repeat question to anyone who finds Dragonheart scummy due to that.
Are you serious? He has all of 2 votes. I guess 3 if you count DH's 'countervote'.
And commenting on something strange is not the same as voting over something strange when you've had no other posts in the thread thus far.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
I don't believe the site has anything to do with it. Why would being new to the site change it? Just because he comes from a different site doesn't change the fact that it doesn't seem like a town perspective.
I really don't know what your customs are and I'm only a moderately experienced mafia player overall. Between those two things, I feel very alien here. When you combine that with my natural tendency to come across as scummy, (Due to my personality, regardless of mafia alignment. Heck, sometimes people accuse me of being scummy outside of mafia games!) I can easily understand how a few of you could feel that way. I like spurring discussion on and I like taking big risks. Sometimes that pays off huge, and sometimes it gets me lynched on day 1.
That gambit was extremely fun and I just re-read the game again reminding myself how awesome it felt.
I think you just answered your own question.
I find your stance self-contradictory. You said it surprised you that you got an explanation from me - yet you knew my vote was serious. Would you have known my vote was serious had I not stated it was, given that I didn't immediately explain? If so, then how can you say that you didn't believe AI's vote was serious? If that's the case, why didn't you ask AI to explain his vote? If not, then why did it surprise you that you got an explanation from me?
You've got some 'splainin' to do.
But what I'm saying is that your choice of language and tone moderated your vote - do you understand?
"Hardly a wagon jump" seems defensive to me.
Oh well. I think I'll keep my vote on you.
Holy god I already like Void this game. My line of thought, exactly.
AI, tell me more about your scum read on Chickenfish, aside from the moderating language I made a note of.
3. There's a lovely definition for a Normal game in our Mafia Hosting Thread.
Because if you're town, it gives the scum information about the setup they didn't have before, and if you're scum, it generates WIFOM for the town to wade through. Both anti-town actions, regardless of alignment, as well as the fact that we then have to figure out which the information-dropper is.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
truth hurts huh. and ive been out of the loop for months. i may have forgotten how to play this game.
in a 21 player game. nooone is getting lynched that quick. calm down Z
We call it an OMGUS (oh my god you suck) vote and generally they dont do much but make yourself look bad
in this case I would say its fine as Tezz really needs to back up that vote with some better justification IMO
The Family
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
could you please clarify what you mean by this statement.
The Family
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I like this vote, but like..do you think Zelderex can be scum without MzztrTetris also being scum?
This post is so very awkward, and probably the reason Ged voted you.
Roleblocker =|= Scum
His posts are extremely inconsistent in tone. They alternate between aggressive and defensive even within the same post.
No offense, but I hope the vig shoots you. It makes things much simpler for us, you understand.
Yes.
Why?
I think atm, dragon is unreadable, given the completly ailen and unique playstyle.
I also think Zeld is worth looking into for the panic attack.
but right now, my worthless vote is being worthless in tezz's direction.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Technically, the burden of proof falls on you, good sir.
That said, Zelderex is simultaneously expressing concern at the perceived speed of the wagon while looking for a way to jump onto it. I don't see this as bussing so much as yelling, "I'm a helpful townie (but not really)."
I realize this; I was merely commenting that I like that Void's train of thought parallels my own here. It shows a similar mindset, if you follow.
Good to have you, town AI.
In regards to Zelderex, I don't see why he isn't being extended the same "your playstyle is weird because you're from elsewhere" courtesy that Dragon is - I can attest to the fact that Zeld is from a completely different Mafia environment than we're used to on MTGS. I know this because I play there, too.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
God what a horrible post. What bugs me the most about it is that he's willing to follow cyan for no other reason than he's cyan. Sure, his fearmongering about a quick lynch is bad, but i think its even worse that he attempts to justify a future vote by simply stating he /barn's cyan.
Because it has everything to do with it? I mean, did you read any of his posts? I fail to see how someone can read his posts and not see that he's the orange in a bucket of apples.
Almost certainly. Tzzt is not the strongest town player, and Zelderex's fence-sitting post can come from cautious scum regardless of whether or not Tzz is his buddy.
Put it in words better than i could. Posts like these seem to rarely come from concerned townies and instead come from newb scum trying to look involved.
Vote Zelderex
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
I try my best to remain detached and calm for the most part but fail 9 times out of 10.
But I still try because I know it helps me in hunting for scum better.
I drive though asking questions and trying to determine if someone is feeding me lines or if there is truth to their statement.
What people believe and what they claim, ect. Oh and I have been playing mafia for over 4 years online, just started playing this site in July.
Why did you say that Cyan was supergod and scary with your rationale as voting? Did you understand CF's view on his vote in post 26? If not why?
Where in the world are you getting this from?
No I'm not talking a quote, I'm talking about the impression.
@AI: Did you take the comment from CF as jokey? If so why?
What made you ask these questions?
Why did you not ask questions that you want that are questions that you legitmately created yourself?
Why did you ask these questions with everything going on and Dragon's request for players already to discuss themselves?
@Archonoid: Why does it bother you that Niv put information out there?
What is your view on Niv claiming information in thread?
No.
I am still trying to finish reading the last few post but don't have time right now.
If I had a gun to my head for scum reads it is Bolly, Iso and AI. Will have reason's later.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
It was the impression that his tone gave me. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ultimately, I believe that Zelderex scumminess exists independent of Mzztr's. Zelderex starts out by trying to play the good guy and pointing out the 'quick bandwagon on Mzztr'. Putting aside the fact that it was actually not a quick bandwagon(even if you count Niv's pseudo vote, that is only 3 votes), he concludes by leaving himself an obvious opening to just jump on the wagon later anyway. And making it my responsibility if he does so.
This definitely warrants an Unvote, Vote Zelderex
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
since you seam to claim inside knowledge, what is scum play for zeld?
i do agree with cyan here, but I'd like to know then what you say a scummy zeld looks like if acting like traditional scum isn't his scum playstyle?
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
hey now, thats my standard play.
iso can you direct us to some of Z's meta to reflect why you feel this way?
right now Tezz looks terrible and Z is not far behind him.
The Family
Vote Count:
Zelderex (3): Ged Arcadic Cyan
Cyan (2): zindabad Wrath_of_DoG
Dragonheart91 (2): MzztrTetris kill-joy
MzztrTetris (2): AsianInvasion Dragonheart91
Bolly (1): Chickenfish
Chickenfish (1): Iso
Iso (1): NeedMoreAssumptions
Per request of tordeck: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Not Voting:
Niv tordeck Zelderex Zajnet pinkys_brain Archonoid DRey Bolly Void
Note: Since all players have confirmed, I will now only be looking for players who's activity is < 72 hours per post. These players will be prodded.
The Family
@tordeck: You definitely do not always appear scummy. And Zelderex' post was just laughably and ridiculously bad. If he always posts like that, I don't know how he ever survives past Day 1.
Yeah. I can see this post
as just casting blanket suspicion on people because more suspicion is good for scum. Plus the "I've seen people get lynched over less" comment still leaves open the possibility that he's cool with a Tetris lynch all the same.
:facepalm::argh::swear::no::devo:
The Family
there are very few "default" roles on this site, only baseline ones.
a while back (read like 3 years, greenwood affair) in a normal I had a role where I was told I was un-target able, but in actuality I was target-able only by investigation, and was a miller.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
That was the line that really got my suspicions up as well. To start out criticizing a wagon and then effectively go along with it 2 seconds later is scummy. To then immediately try to absolve yourself of responsibility for this is even worse.
I still like Mzztr as scum, though.
Yeah, it could easily go either way. The "but I guess I could be persuaded to lynch eventually" tone could be a "I don't want to rule this person out as a miss-lynch" or a "when this person turns up scum I want to make it look like I had thought of that".
I agree, which is why I'm glad Zeld is playing Mafia here now - it'll teach him a few things.
Well, Zeld is a scummy ****er at all times, so the best way to catch him is through his interactions and stances after we have a few flips. He did us the courtesy of linking us a town and scum game (both of which I believe I was in, actually) so if you want to understand Zelderex's play, best get to reading.
"Z" has already done so.
Tells you what kind of Mafia environment he comes from, doesn't it? My first game on Colo made me want to shoot myself.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I have. It in my view helps balance a game in some ways but is bastard in other ways. Try seeing a death miller in a game for real bastardation.
@Iso: Do you know how you act when you play the game of mafia here?
How many times have you explained your reason's for voting when asked indepth compared to vague responses?
I don't see it. That is why I asked how you got that impression. You state tone but tone is not something heard it's gut, feeling and overall does it come across as something in the post that makes if feel off.
Did you read post 26 at all? What was your view on what CF stated other then it was RVS in your mind?
1) bad logic. There was already a discussion in place
2) again there was a discussion going on
3) did you feel at the time you needed more information other then what Dragon was asking?
Why in your own words do you think this?
Things that stand out on AI that I find questionable to scummy:
He says he's torn on Bolly but prior voted for him while accusing CF of being scummy.
post 78
General comment that adds nothing to the game.
post 85 catches the vote by Niv that was a mod error but doesn't call niv out for lying or being scummy, just asking for an explination.
Then we have post
Where not too long ago he was unsure on Bolly. Holly what happened to the unsure read batman!
Points out Zeld's comment but doesn't put the scumminess of the post. Just a throw away comment without pressure.
If he thinks both Tezz and Zeld are scum together how does this make sense?
Why I find Iso questinable/scummy
I find this a bit stretch of imagination. One people tend to not be sure what is serious or not when a vote is being placed during RVS. I think trying to push something as obvious to you is not obvious to everyone and most know this that have played mafia for some time. I think CF still thought the vote was in RVS. Diction choice is vague. He didn't defend himself either. He made a statement that was factual towards Bolly's false accuation.
I find some of these questions rediculous. (1) Iso's meta and action in multiple games is you never know what your going to get. He goes from being mum to talkative when asked questions. So part of this is him knowing how he is as a player.
(2) He's trying to point out similiarites but I know more people notice a vote on themselves then on other people first and formost no matter their alligment.
I don't see why explaining how someone use of language that explained themselves and reason's is really a case. It's you said X it sounds bad. Other player is but I meant Y and this is what I was trying to say is typically up to whether you believe a person or not.
Instead of saying why he doesn't believe CF he says his views (which to me makes me think he's pushing more on his view then reading).
I really dislike this post:
Iso never stated an issue with Niv. 2 sucking up to another player.
Would like to add to my scum list Void and Zeld
The TL'TR please stop my eyes from bleeding verision:
AI: isn't pushing things. He points things out then just fades away. His comments are more general statements without really making a case and just seems to being trying not to make any really waves. I have this Zeld/AI scum thought in my head based on AI's point and lack of vote on Zeld and holding onto a vote on Tezz when he states he doesn't see it as bussing. How can that be both Tezz and Zeld scum together then?
Iso: I find his comments/ case weak. He is a very self aware player of his actions in game and I think his push on CF comes off as aggressive but not strong. I also don't like when I see people say OMG I had the same thought and calling them town in such a way when they never brought up the point in the first place.
vote: AI
To come at a later date Bolly, Zeld and Void.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I need some daykills.
Scummy people get lynched. Bye Zelderex. The End.
I try to switch up little bits and pieces from game to game. As for the second question, no idea.
...yes?
So...you think I'm scummy because you and I interpreted the events in question differently?
1. Like I said, I like to change it up.
2. Similarities in what? I don't understand half of the **** you're pushing on me.
Again: What?
Because I don't have an issue with Niv.
Roleblocker =/= Scum.
You are attempting to build a mountain out of the Grand Canyon and I don't like it.
So a point of contention you have with me is, "Void has a similar mindset to my own, so therefore, Void is leaning town to me"? Let's break down why that's flawed.
Firstly, that is how I cleared Artifice in Random Mafia 4. I knew he was town because he and I had the exact same interpretation of events.
Secondly, you're suggesting that I couldn't have had that thought on my own, which is absolutely preposterous. Surely you haven't already forgotten 300 Mafia? The Roleblock flavor, created by our very own AI, was the Queen of Sparta sleeping with the player in question. I believe the falseclaim assigned to that was that of a prostitute. So no, it's not so far out of the realm of possibility for me to have had these thoughts, myself, as you are so strongly implying. And on that note, bite me.
Suit yourself, Cyan.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player