@AI: I wasn't looking for proof really, just curious as to what other people thought. It's worth noting that the original question wasn't even directed at you.
I didn't expect you to ask me to elaborate prior to Ged's response and didn't want to forget to respond to the question because it's an important discussion point.
Ultimately, I believe that Zelderex scumminess exists independent of Mzztr's. Zelderex starts out by trying to play the good guy and pointing out the 'quick bandwagon on Mzztr'. Putting aside the fact that it was actually not a quick bandwagon(even if you count Niv's pseudo vote, that is only 3 votes), he concludes by leaving himself an obvious opening to just jump on the wagon later anyway. And making it my responsibility if he does so.
Secondly, you're suggesting that I couldn't have had that thought on my own, which is absolutely preposterous. Surely you haven't already forgotten 300 Mafia? The Roleblock flavor, created by our very own AI, was the Queen of Sparta sleeping with the player in question. I believe the falseclaim assigned to that was that of a prostitute. So no, it's not so far out of the realm of possibility for me to have had these thoughts, myself, as you are so strongly implying. And on that note, bite me.
God what a horrible post. What bugs me the most about it is that he's willing to follow cyan for no other reason than he's cyan. Sure, his fearmongering about a quick lynch is bad, but i think its even worse that he attempts to justify a future vote by simply stating he /barn's cyan.
That's pretty much the opposite of what I was doing. I was saying that I was cautious of a quick lynch based on one person. Bite me for overreacting to an almost baseless lynch gaining (admittedly, not much) momentum because it had Cyan behind it.
so, yah, Zeld's gonna self destruct, that's cool. what an awful explanation for that post.
also, Iso: if they really how zeld always plays, then their just going to be lynchbait forever.
Vote Zelderex
also:
I don't get why that's all AI wants to say about Pinky's post. seams like the vote is just being ignored, which doesn't look good on AI, even more than the "case"
I don't get why that's all AI wants to say about Pinky's post. seams like the vote is just being ignored, which doesn't look good on AI, even more than the "case"
Almost everything she said was her opinion regarding my word choice or who I decided to vote at a given point in time. There wasn't really anything for me to respond to, hence my question. I am totally fine with her voting me and keeping tabs on my play.
In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you would use FoS instead of Vote because you have the potential to confuse players (and the moderator) otherwise.
Is this not a legit reason to think someone is scummy (depending on the events and interpretations)?
I think it's very situationally legitimate - particularly if role information is involved. But given that it was an argument over whether or not someone was voting seriously, I took it the way I took it - no role information involved just common sense. There's really not much I can say beyond "I thought AI's vote was a serious vote" on this subject.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
really defeatism after only 4/11 votes need to be lynched?
then backpedaling on the explanation for previous overreactions.
i smell scum
vote zelderex
I don't recall backpedalling. I was genuinely explaining a post. It only seems like backpedalling because it's been exaggerated into some absurdly obvious scumtell.
Where does the "defeatism," come into play? Like you said, it's only 4/11 votes. Now it's becoming 6/11. I get it, I'm a ****ty player. But that's no reason to let you guys waste a lynch on a townie.
so, yah, Zeld's gonna self destruct, that's cool. what an awful explanation for that post.
also, Iso: if they really how zeld always plays, then their just going to be lynchbait forever.
Vote Zelderex
also:
I don't get why that's all AI wants to say about Pinky's post. seams like the vote is just being ignored, which doesn't look good on AI, even more than the "case"
Care to go into more depth on how it's a "****ty explanation?" And at what point do I self destruct? If I'm such a "Newb," and "Lynchbait," as you've put it, care to explain the scumtell that I'm sure only you spotted? I mean, I'm sure you're not just jumping on a bandwagon, with a flimsy explanation that you practically stole from Tordeck.
Really guys, think this out. Two of the votes on me are blatant bandwagon votes. Two actually have some sort of explanation behind them. Two are justified only by "Well he's a ****ty player!"
Since when is "Bad player," justification for a lynch? Even a ****ty townie is still a townie. You can check this game, where I (a townie) wind up resisting a lynch the entire god-damn game because of my stupidity. Or this game, where my name (again, town) comes up repeatedly. I'm a scummy dude. I am inexperienced, and I do need to work on my play. But for now, I'm gonna play some goddamn mafia. I'm not gonna sit here and say "You're right! Lynch the **** out of me!" Bolly and Chickenfish's names have come up, Dragonheart is an admittedly rookie player- yet we're not bandwagoning him for not being "Mafia Player of the year 20XX."
So please, if you want to lynch me, don't say I'm "Backpedaling," "Self-Destructing," or "A Bad player." Find some actual reasons before mislynching a townie.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So all your saying is tone and expecting everyone to get the same response?
So...you think I'm scummy because you and I interpreted the events in question differently?
You believe people who are thinking the same are town (I know you have stated this in the past), and you think people that are pushing things you don't agree with and are circumstantial at best looks town?
No. Not only no, hell no.
1. Like I said, I like to change it up.
2. Similarities in what? I don't understand half of the **** you're pushing on me.
1. What is the point of your question to CF.
2. similarities between your vote and Ai's vote.
Again: What?
All you did was explain your reasoning in that post on why CF looks scummy and didn't comment about his explanation.
Because I don't have an issue with Niv.
So the point of mentioning voids comment about Niv was???????
You are attempting to build a mountain out of the Grand Canyon and I don't like it.
Wow really like your "case" on CF and push was what exactly?
So a point of contention you have with me is, "Void has a similar mindset to my own, so therefore, Void is leaning town to me"? Let's break down why that's flawed.
Firstly, that is how I cleared Artifice in Random Mafia 4. I knew he was town because he and I had the exact same interpretation of events.
Secondly, you're suggesting that I couldn't have had that thought on my own, which is absolutely preposterous. Surely you haven't already forgotten 300 Mafia? The Roleblock flavor, created by our very own AI, was the Queen of Sparta sleeping with the player in question. I believe the falseclaim assigned to that was that of a prostitute. So no, it's not so far out of the realm of possibility for me to have had these thoughts, myself, as you are so strongly implying. And on that note, bite me.
*note: look at random mafia 4*
I stayed in mafia 300 for barely 3 pages. I don't remember too much about it. I just remember Art's play.
But what you asking is for me to believe that your sole reason for find void town is based on his one comment about Niv? Then it's like you pat the guy on the back for it more and more I find people that kiss up to others to be scummy (see Art's play as scum in general).
So all your saying is tone and expecting everyone to get the same response?
...no? You really need to ask your questions more clearly because prior to this post, I had no idea what you were asking me in your last one. Please.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
You believe people who are thinking the same are town (I know you have stated this in the past), and you think people that are pushing things you don't agree with and are circumstantial at best looks town?
No. Not only no, hell no.
Again - wat. Could you twist my words any harder? I said that if someone is thinking from the same mindset I am, they're likely town - and I don't understand where you're getting the second part from.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
1. What is the point of your question to CF.
2. similarities between your vote and Ai's vote.
1. Which one?
2. ...what?
Quote from pinkys_brain »
All you did was explain your reasoning in that post on why CF looks scummy and didn't comment about his explanation.
Which part of the explanation did you feel needed commenting on?
Quote from pinkys_brain »
So the point of mentioning voids comment about Niv was???????
To give Void town points. Why are you attempting to draw poor associations so early?
Quote from pinkys_brain »
Wow really like your "case" on CF and push was what exactly?
You're welcome to go back and read it - it's not going to be moving out of this thread anytime soon that I'm aware of.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
*note: look at random mafia 4*
I stayed in mafia 300 for barely 3 pages. I don't remember too much about it. I just remember Art's play.
But what you asking is for me to believe that your sole reason for find void town is based on his one comment about Niv? Then it's like you pat the guy on the back for it more and more I find people that kiss up to others to be scummy (see Art's play as scum in general).
I didn't say Void was town, I said he was likely town. Your interpretation of my motives for my actions are so far off base I can't even take you seriously at this point. If I find a player expressing an opinion I like that I think is town, I'll agree with it. If I think they're town and I don't care about what they have to say, I'll ignore them.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Zelderex: The correct response to being accused is to state a counter-case. Getting mad makes you look like scum, and not defending yourself makes you look like scum. The ONLY safe route is to use logic to walk the fine line between scummy and ignorant. This is a very difficult skill to learn. You are looking quite scummy to me as well, but at least for the moment, I'm writing it off as inexperienced.
@Pinky: I don't like the way you are posting. At all. It may be because your opinions are opposite mine in many ways. It may be because of the attacking tone of your post. It may even be because your posts are long and have quite a bit of filler inbetween each bit of actual argument. You are officially on my scumdar. (Albeit lower than a few others.)
@MzztrTetris: I don't know why you still have your vote on me and have failed to post ANY real argument for your case. Nor have you responded to me. I didn't think you were mafia initially, but you have consistently ignored or side-stepped attacks against yourself and you STILL have your stupid vote ON ME. I want to hear from you asap. I'm going back through the thread to look for scumtells now. Hope I don't find any.
@Everyone! - I feel like we are nearing enough information for a lynch. It may just be because I'm used to comparatively very fast games, but the discussion seems to have started going in circles and getting more mean-spirited. It's getting annoying to read some of the posts going over the same stuff. I will probably have solid opinions by the end of tomorrow. Either way, it's clear that Iso is a critical player this game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
@Zelderex: The correct response to being accused is to state a counter-case. Getting mad makes you look like scum, and not defending yourself makes you look like scum. The ONLY safe route is to use logic to walk the fine line between scummy and ignorant. This is a very difficult skill to learn. You are looking quite scummy to me as well, but at least for the moment, I'm writing it off as inexperienced.
Third person to say that I'm not defending myself. Apparently I'm just not speaking english.
Oh you are speaking English. You just aren't speaking Mafiaese. They are very different things sometimes.
I went back and re-read all five of MzztrTetris posts. Yeah, he hasn't been very active. He popped in and accused me, failed to back-up his claim, side-stepped Cyan accusing him, and then disappeared again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
actually i believe that dragon was agreeing with you that youre defending yourself. he just also happened to be agreeing with the rest of us that you are doing so in the most scumtaculiar way possible
What do you find scummy? Why no vote on Zeld after you saw his post and pointed it out?
I find players whose words don't match their actions scummy. I believe you noted my suspicion of Zelderex in the post I am quoting.
I didn't want to shift my vote around too much without seeing more from Tetris. Soon thereafter, momentum seemed to be shifting toward Zelderex, so I didn't see keeping my vote on Tetris as being very useful.
@Everyone! - I feel like we are nearing enough information for a lynch. It may just be because I'm used to comparatively very fast games, but the discussion seems to have started going in circles and getting more mean-spirited. It's getting annoying to read some of the posts going over the same stuff. I will probably have solid opinions by the end of tomorrow. Either way, it's clear that Iso is a critical player this game.
Around here, it is (AFAIK) unprecedented to gather enough momentum for a lynch in a 20+ player game in under two weeks.
The ****? That was a quick bandwagon on Tetris. I see the reasons; he jumped on Dragon very quickly for his weird opening post (Something I commented on, Cyan too I think). Not sure if I'm comfortable with a lynch there, though I've seen people get lynched over less on day one.
I guess a better summary is: do I feel comfortable blindly following Cyan on sheer merit of him being Cyan?
Assume Cyan isn't a factor. What prevents you from finding Tetris' actions scummy on their own?
He's not new to mafia however, which he clearly states. If he was, then I wouldn't have done anything, but since he also comes from some background in the game, I don't like how his opening post basically is him trying to say, "Hey guys, I'm town."
That's pretty much the opposite of what I was doing. I was saying that I was cautious of a quick lynch based on one person. Bite me for overreacting to an almost baseless lynch gaining (admittedly, not much) momentum because it had Cyan behind it.
Assuming you're cautious of a quick lynch, then why react where there "isn't that much momentum"?
Why do you refer to the votes as "almost baseless"?
Why is Cyan such a big factor when the other two votes were independently reasoned?
Finally, why do you refer to the incredibly short wagon on Tetris as "lynch"?
So please, if you want to lynch me, don't say I'm "Backpedaling," "Self-Destructing," or "A Bad player." Find some actual reasons before mislynching a townie.
Why are you only answering some of the accusations?
I don't recall backpedalling. I was genuinely explaining a post. It only seems like backpedalling because it's been exaggerated into some absurdly obvious scumtell.
Where does the "defeatism," come into play? Like you said, it's only 4/11 votes. Now it's becoming 6/11. I get it, I'm a ****ty player. But that's no reason to let you guys waste a lynch on a townie.
Care to go into more depth on how it's a "****ty explanation?" And at what point do I self destruct? If I'm such a "Newb," and "Lynchbait," as you've put it, care to explain the scumtell that I'm sure only you spotted? I mean, I'm sure you're not just jumping on a bandwagon, with a flimsy explanation that you practically stole from Tordeck.
Really guys, think this out. Two of the votes on me are blatant bandwagon votes. Two actually have some sort of explanation behind them. Two are justified only by "Well he's a ****ty player!"
Since when is "Bad player," justification for a lynch? Even a ****ty townie is still a townie. You can check this game, where I (a townie) wind up resisting a lynch the entire god-damn game because of my stupidity. Or this game, where my name (again, town) comes up repeatedly. I'm a scummy dude. I am inexperienced, and I do need to work on my play. But for now, I'm gonna play some goddamn mafia. I'm not gonna sit here and say "You're right! Lynch the **** out of me!" Bolly and Chickenfish's names have come up, Dragonheart is an admittedly rookie player- yet we're not bandwagoning him for not being "Mafia Player of the year 20XX."
So please, if you want to lynch me, don't say I'm "Backpedaling," "Self-Destructing," or "A Bad player." Find some actual reasons before mislynching a townie.
Assume Cyan isn't a factor. What prevents you from finding Tetris' actions scummy on their own?
Assuming you're cautious of a quick lynch, then why react where there "isn't that much momentum"?
Why do you refer to the votes as "almost baseless"?
Why is Cyan such a big factor when the other two votes were independently reasoned?
Finally, why do you refer to the incredibly short wagon on Tetris as "lynch"?
Why are you only answering some of the accusations?
1.) From where I'm standing, he returned to find six odd pages that included only smatterings of relevant discussion. I think that, even if his behavior (vote then skip out, more or less) is weird, it's somewhat justified (show up late to a game, find it progressed quickly, don't feel like reading it all, look for the first thing that seems relevant, and act on it). The reason I don't think his vote for Dragon is baffling is because I too pointed out that it's kinda weird to ask for introductions, and explain some of your behavior before you do anything.
2.) The votes piled on quick (two back to back), and I (correctly) expected it to get a little more. I still feel that it would've picked up if I hadn't said anything stupid.
a.) This is Cyan's vote:
And Dragon's vote, which I don't feel like quoting, was a self-proclaimed OMGUS. So yeah, I overreacted. Cyan had a weird policy-vote, AsianInvasion didn't even pretend to be doing anything but bandwagoning, and the third vote was just an OMGUS. My post was mostly reacting to the ease with which Cyan could get bandwagon votes (even one baseless vote is too many for me).
b.) See the above.
c.) I don't think it's sane to vote for someone (outside of random votes and prods) if you're not comfortable with them dying that day. It's just a logic chain that sometimes seeps into my phrasing.
3.) I don't notice all the accusations placed against me, or don't feel like digging some of them up (one of the votes placed against me was someone I forgot, who just called me a bad player and bailed). Others don't seem to justify a response, such as Ged, who didn't really provide enough to react to.
I think it's very situationally legitimate - particularly if role information is involved. But given that it was an argument over whether or not someone was voting seriously, I took it the way I took it - no role information involved just common sense. There's really not much I can say beyond "I thought AI's vote was a serious vote" on this subject.
That's legit.
I'm having a really hard time reading pinkys_brain's posts. Just throwing that out there.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hi everybody,
So I've just started a second job, which means I'm working 13 hour days with not much guaranteed time to be able to access mafia.
Seeing as this is the newest game I'm in (and biggest, so most posts for me to fall behind on), it makes sense for me to bow out of this one.
Mod: could you please find me a replacement?
Apologies for any inconvenience - hope to play with you all soon!
@Mzztr: Seppel does that crap all of the time, and I've seen Iso do it once or twice. When someone says 'I'm town' it means absolutely nothing, because that is all anyone would say.
We're not talking about Iso and Seppel here. They do it to be funny, Dragonheart was being serious.
And it wasn't that he said it, it was the way he said it.
So you're saying that Iso and Seppel aren't serious when they do that? They've never once been town and acted that way?
Different people act different ways. DH's early game behavior is not a scum tell. Especially considering that he made the same post in the Theory/Discussion thread(or maybe the Council thread) before this game ever started. That post is not a scum-tell, period.
1.) From where I'm standing, he returned to find six odd pages that included only smatterings of relevant discussion. I think that, even if his behavior (vote then skip out, more or less) is weird, it's somewhat justified (show up late to a game, find it progressed quickly, don't feel like reading it all, look for the first thing that seems relevant, and act on it). The reason I don't think his vote for Dragon is baffling is because I too pointed out that it's kinda weird to ask for introductions, and explain some of your behavior before you do anything.
In other words, if we assume Cyan isn't a factor, you'd have no reason to vote for Tetris. Yet once Cyan becomes a factor, it becomes a reason to vote for someone you obviously don't think is scummy. Why?
3.) I don't notice all the accusations placed against me, or don't feel like digging some of them up (one of the votes placed against me was someone I forgot, who just called me a bad player and bailed). Others don't seem to justify a response, such as Ged, who didn't really provide enough to react to.
What about Cyan's? There's a sufficient amount of description there. As well, I do not believe that
It's his first post. It's the first post of the whole game. What are you talking about?
I look at the first post of the game, and I see a post that pretty much states that Dragonheart is used to fast-paced mafia and does not play like Iso.
B)Why did you seem to consider joining the bandwagon yourself(even acknowledging some of Mzztr's scummy behavior) if you had such problems with it?
Your story doesn't feel like it is adding up here.
1.)...because I perceived that a bandwagon was forming quick, even though half of it couldn't provide a reason right away? I get it, I acted quickly.
2.) Cyan sort of had a point, that he's outlined further now. Dragon was either towntelling or scumslipping, and it's weird to jump at that so quickly. But I think Tezz was playing catch up, and made a stupid vote. Cyan and Tezz's current discussion could change how I feel about that vote.
3.) Because it's being spun in a thousand directions. I saw that Cyan managed to get an actually good player behind a bandwagon almost on pure merit of being Cyan, that seemed weird to me. I acknowledged that Cyan was a good player and that, if town, his read could matter. But caution is good, because at 6 pages in, it's still hard to figure out who's what with clarity. Those were my opinions at the time of the post.
In the future, consider reading the thread before leveling this sort of baseless accusation.
In the future, consider posting your reasons along with, or soon after you vote for someone. "Chugga Chugga Choo Choo," is not generally considered a reason.
I'll be honest, I don't usually (as in; in none of my finished games) have any solid reads. Doesn't help that I'm a mediocre-at-best fairly-inexperienced player. But:
FoS
Artifice
Bolly
Artifice jumping to defend Bolly was so weird that it cast suspicion on Bolly's jumpiness, which I wasn't overly worried about until that point (one of those things that warrants keeping an eye on, if not anything drastic).
Probably Town:
Dragonheart
Cyan
Cyan said it best, for a player entering a new meta to do something as scummy as what Dragon did with the introductions, and describing scummy things he does in his first post almost, it'd take a lot of guts. I just don't have Dragon read as the sort of person to try some hardcore gambit like that.
My inno reading on Cyan can be, to a lesser degree, be extended to Iso. Mafiosos don't tend to paint targets that big on themselves. Given that I've played with Iso before, and seen him do even more insane things as mafia, I can never really be sure.
In other words, if we assume Cyan isn't a factor, you'd have no reason to vote for Tetris. Yet once Cyan becomes a factor, it becomes a reason to vote for someone you obviously don't think is scummy. Why?
What about Cyan's? There's a sufficient amount of description there. As well, I do not believe that
1.) My dumb, new-to-MTGS-Mafia ass, got that vibe from AsianInvasion seeing "Cyan's word," as reason to vote. Felt it would be strange to completely discredit Cyan's read. I now know better.
2.) I've indirectly addressed Cyan's accusations, which are more or less what everyone else said. I expressed that I didn't like the bandwagon on Tezz, then wondered aloud whether or not Cyan is enough reason to vote for someone. Something I've phrased probably three times this post.
Ged barely said anything, and might as well have quoted Cyan word for word. Don't feel the need to address accusations that have already been levelled at me, and that aren't even typed out into a couple of sentences.
I have. If I had come into the game saying, "Hey guys, I'm town," that wouldn't have seemed at all fishy to you? Because that's exactly what you did. You came in, self meta'd, saying that it's incredibly easy to tell whether you're scum or town.
My vote will stay.
Curious, did you actually look at his evidence, or did you just vote him because idunnolol? His post is a pretty standard newbie introduction.
EBWODP:
this sentence:
I'll be honest, I don't usually (as in; in none of my finished games) have any solid reads. Doesn't help that I'm a mediocre-at-best fairly-inexperienced player. But:
should be THIS sentence: (bolded added words)
I'll be honest, I don't usually (as in; in none of my finished games) have any solid reads [B]on day one[B]. Doesn't help that I'm a mediocre-at-best fairly-inexperienced player. But:
With regards to if varying interpretations of things can be viewed as scummy:
pretty sure that whether or not it actually is a tell, when someone knows for themselves that their town, and someone else disagrees with them, inherently, they may make that connection. It's actual validity can certainly be questioned, but what the little exchange between Iso and Ged does for me is give me a strong town read on Ged for suggesting that as a tell this game.
With regards to how I play:
I feel like Zeld is just attacking me for how I simply posted that I thought that they were self destructing. the playstyle that I've developed is me usually posting what I think are quick notes/opinions to the thread. I'll gladly elaborate when someone asks, or if I feel that it's necessary.
that being said, a response to Zeld:
I think your first post has been discussed more than enough, but I'll go into details on your one where I referred to you as self destructing.
you opened up by acknowledging that you're acting "scummy as ****" and that that is the only way you managed to remove the speed and force from behind tetris' wagon. that wagon had 2(3) votes on it, and wasn't about to be lynched anytime soon. the second half of your post you "defend" yourself in such a poor fashion. Early wagons will usually be "almost baseless". You find someone whose done one or two scummy things, stuff that stands out, I would have found tetris' vote scummy without Cyan, and your fear of the wagon specifically beacuse of Cyan being on it is awkward. you also do an amazing job of not responding to most of the actual accusations against you.
I also hate how you're gonna accuse me of stealing my explanation from tordek. I'm sorry that I wasn't the first one to post following your post, but I'm pretty sure me and him having similar impressions of the post is not me stealing my opinion from him.
with regards to bad player = scum:
you are acting extremely scummy. if this is just simply how you play, eventually you'll just get lynched in every game you play in, or vigged. why, beacuse we have no way of reading you without a cop investigation, and even those aren't 100% of the time. We're not wagoning dragonheart because he is not acting extremely scummy.
to restate: If you honestly act this scummy in every game, you're going to get lynched every game, or vigged every game, until you change that play. there is a difference between bad play and scummy play.
-----
I do agree that we do need some scum games to compile a true "meta" on you. but since meta is usually bunk anwho, I'm not going to waste 2 hours reading every game you've been in to come up with something I really don't need.
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with regards to Dragonhearts comment on Tetris:
While I do agree with you tetris is hella scummy, and if Zeld wasn't the bigger focus they'd be getting a harder look, not everyone lives on this fourm, though some of us do, so, pushing on him for "disappearing" isn't really a strike against him.
on momentum to lynch someone early:
Back in my day, that never used to be the case. people were pushed to at least -2 very quickly
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Zeld responds to some of the acusations actually here still ignores a good chunk of the real issue though. the accusation at AI is really poor. Cyan points this out quite nicely in his next post.
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for what it's worth, I'm having issues reading pinky as well. nothing alignment wise, just the way their worded amongst the quotes. Personally, I was noticing how poor some of my quote walls looked, so, I'm trying to minimize my use of quotes :P.
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Art, I think most people were finding Bolly scummy in the RVS, myself included, though, they weren't my biggest scum read during all of that. not sure why you needed to ask this though, this isn't a big thread to read, go read it.
not looking good from the get go.
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Tetris: pretty sure you're fully cemented in my #2 slot after post 213
what's even worse though is that you're questioning Cyan here. there is no reason cyan is lying, the number of people in this game that can verify this is very high. if he was lying, he'd be caught already.
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surprised that NMA is asking for a read on Artifice. while I think his first two posts since replacing for bolly are odd and out of place, that is nowhere near a solid read, and I can't expect anyone to have one.
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Tetris: your explation on the vote on dragon here results in this:
BorkBorkBorkBorkBork
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Zeld: Cyan is Cyan. the biggest scum tell for Cyan is being alive at endgame.
with regards to your post in general:
I think you're actually doing a decent job at this point, and I'm willing to change my focus to tetris. his post 222 specifically reads well.
Which one?
It was stupid.
Do you want me to respond to your case? You didn't actually ask any non-rhetorical questions.
I didn't expect you to ask me to elaborate prior to Ged's response and didn't want to forget to respond to the question because it's an important discussion point.
Good to see that you see what I see.
Good memory.
Unvote
Vote Zelderex
Not really. I saw that there was momentum behind it, and it probably would've gone through if I hadn't started acting scummy as ****.
That's pretty much the opposite of what I was doing. I was saying that I was cautious of a quick lynch based on one person. Bite me for overreacting to an almost baseless lynch gaining (admittedly, not much) momentum because it had Cyan behind it.
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then backpedaling on the explanation for previous overreactions.
i smell scum
vote zelderex
The Family
also, Iso: if they really how zeld always plays, then their just going to be lynchbait forever.
Vote Zelderex
also:
I don't get why that's all AI wants to say about Pinky's post. seams like the vote is just being ignored, which doesn't look good on AI, even more than the "case"
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Almost everything she said was her opinion regarding my word choice or who I decided to vote at a given point in time. There wasn't really anything for me to respond to, hence my question. I am totally fine with her voting me and keeping tabs on my play.
In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you would use FoS instead of Vote because you have the potential to confuse players (and the moderator) otherwise.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Is this not a legit reason to think someone is scummy (depending on the events and interpretations)?
Also Zelderex.
I think it's very situationally legitimate - particularly if role information is involved. But given that it was an argument over whether or not someone was voting seriously, I took it the way I took it - no role information involved just common sense. There's really not much I can say beyond "I thought AI's vote was a serious vote" on this subject.
wat
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't recall backpedalling. I was genuinely explaining a post. It only seems like backpedalling because it's been exaggerated into some absurdly obvious scumtell.
Where does the "defeatism," come into play? Like you said, it's only 4/11 votes. Now it's becoming 6/11. I get it, I'm a ****ty player. But that's no reason to let you guys waste a lynch on a townie.
Care to go into more depth on how it's a "****ty explanation?" And at what point do I self destruct? If I'm such a "Newb," and "Lynchbait," as you've put it, care to explain the scumtell that I'm sure only you spotted? I mean, I'm sure you're not just jumping on a bandwagon, with a flimsy explanation that you practically stole from Tordeck.
Really guys, think this out. Two of the votes on me are blatant bandwagon votes. Two actually have some sort of explanation behind them. Two are justified only by "Well he's a ****ty player!"
Since when is "Bad player," justification for a lynch? Even a ****ty townie is still a townie. You can check this game, where I (a townie) wind up resisting a lynch the entire god-damn game because of my stupidity. Or this game, where my name (again, town) comes up repeatedly. I'm a scummy dude. I am inexperienced, and I do need to work on my play. But for now, I'm gonna play some goddamn mafia. I'm not gonna sit here and say "You're right! Lynch the **** out of me!" Bolly and Chickenfish's names have come up, Dragonheart is an admittedly rookie player- yet we're not bandwagoning him for not being "Mafia Player of the year 20XX."
So please, if you want to lynch me, don't say I'm "Backpedaling," "Self-Destructing," or "A Bad player." Find some actual reasons before mislynching a townie.
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and i thoroughly enjoyed that you only gave us examples of you as town playing scummily.
yeah i'm happy with my vote
The Family
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So all your saying is tone and expecting everyone to get the same response?
You believe people who are thinking the same are town (I know you have stated this in the past), and you think people that are pushing things you don't agree with and are circumstantial at best looks town?
No. Not only no, hell no.
1. What is the point of your question to CF.
2. similarities between your vote and Ai's vote.
All you did was explain your reasoning in that post on why CF looks scummy and didn't comment about his explanation.
So the point of mentioning voids comment about Niv was???????
Wow really like your "case" on CF and push was what exactly?
*note: look at random mafia 4*
I stayed in mafia 300 for barely 3 pages. I don't remember too much about it. I just remember Art's play.
But what you asking is for me to believe that your sole reason for find void town is based on his one comment about Niv? Then it's like you pat the guy on the back for it more and more I find people that kiss up to others to be scummy (see Art's play as scum in general).
The post that Iso referred to at the start where he called CF out.
What do you find scummy? Why no vote on Zeld after you saw his post and pointed it out?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Nice circular logic. "If you're upset that you're being bandwagoned, you're scum! If you're not, you're self destructing!"
Which is it?
And yeah, I gave you examples of me as town. Wanna compare, or just heckle?
Or I was joking about how quickly it escalated. Sarcasm doesn't translate into text.
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i said defeatism. which was clearly being shown in post 175.
though your recent posts are closer to niv's description than mine.
The Family
...no? You really need to ask your questions more clearly because prior to this post, I had no idea what you were asking me in your last one. Please.
Again - wat. Could you twist my words any harder? I said that if someone is thinking from the same mindset I am, they're likely town - and I don't understand where you're getting the second part from.
1. Which one?
2. ...what?
Which part of the explanation did you feel needed commenting on?
To give Void town points. Why are you attempting to draw poor associations so early?
You're welcome to go back and read it - it's not going to be moving out of this thread anytime soon that I'm aware of.
I didn't say Void was town, I said he was likely town. Your interpretation of my motives for my actions are so far off base I can't even take you seriously at this point. If I find a player expressing an opinion I like that I think is town, I'll agree with it. If I think they're town and I don't care about what they have to say, I'll ignore them.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Pinky: I don't like the way you are posting. At all. It may be because your opinions are opposite mine in many ways. It may be because of the attacking tone of your post. It may even be because your posts are long and have quite a bit of filler inbetween each bit of actual argument. You are officially on my scumdar. (Albeit lower than a few others.)
@MzztrTetris: I don't know why you still have your vote on me and have failed to post ANY real argument for your case. Nor have you responded to me. I didn't think you were mafia initially, but you have consistently ignored or side-stepped attacks against yourself and you STILL have your stupid vote ON ME. I want to hear from you asap. I'm going back through the thread to look for scumtells now. Hope I don't find any.
@Everyone! - I feel like we are nearing enough information for a lynch. It may just be because I'm used to comparatively very fast games, but the discussion seems to have started going in circles and getting more mean-spirited. It's getting annoying to read some of the posts going over the same stuff. I will probably have solid opinions by the end of tomorrow. Either way, it's clear that Iso is a critical player this game.
My apologies. Now it's just stupid. I'll ask you again to explain how I'm being defeatist by defending myself.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
Third person to say that I'm not defending myself. Apparently I'm just not speaking english.
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I went back and re-read all five of MzztrTetris posts. Yeah, he hasn't been very active. He popped in and accused me, failed to back-up his claim, side-stepped Cyan accusing him, and then disappeared again.
The Family
A link would have been really helpful, you know.
#26, I presume? This is clearly not a random vote.
I find players whose words don't match their actions scummy. I believe you noted my suspicion of Zelderex in the post I am quoting.
I didn't want to shift my vote around too much without seeing more from Tetris. Soon thereafter, momentum seemed to be shifting toward Zelderex, so I didn't see keeping my vote on Tetris as being very useful.
This to a lesser extent.
Around here, it is (AFAIK) unprecedented to gather enough momentum for a lynch in a 20+ player game in under two weeks.
Assume Cyan isn't a factor. What prevents you from finding Tetris' actions scummy on their own?
What is your opinion on Niv as a result?
Show where it does that.
What forces you to have a 'gun to your head' to describe scum reads?
Assuming you're cautious of a quick lynch, then why react where there "isn't that much momentum"?
Why do you refer to the votes as "almost baseless"?
Why is Cyan such a big factor when the other two votes were independently reasoned?
Finally, why do you refer to the incredibly short wagon on Tetris as "lynch"?
Show where defeatism is in the quoted post.
Why are you only answering some of the accusations?
Fair enough.
1.) From where I'm standing, he returned to find six odd pages that included only smatterings of relevant discussion. I think that, even if his behavior (vote then skip out, more or less) is weird, it's somewhat justified (show up late to a game, find it progressed quickly, don't feel like reading it all, look for the first thing that seems relevant, and act on it). The reason I don't think his vote for Dragon is baffling is because I too pointed out that it's kinda weird to ask for introductions, and explain some of your behavior before you do anything.
2.) The votes piled on quick (two back to back), and I (correctly) expected it to get a little more. I still feel that it would've picked up if I hadn't said anything stupid.
a.) This is Cyan's vote:
Sure.
This is AsianInvasion's post, and what worried me:
And Dragon's vote, which I don't feel like quoting, was a self-proclaimed OMGUS. So yeah, I overreacted. Cyan had a weird policy-vote, AsianInvasion didn't even pretend to be doing anything but bandwagoning, and the third vote was just an OMGUS. My post was mostly reacting to the ease with which Cyan could get bandwagon votes (even one baseless vote is too many for me).
b.) See the above.
c.) I don't think it's sane to vote for someone (outside of random votes and prods) if you're not comfortable with them dying that day. It's just a logic chain that sometimes seeps into my phrasing.
3.) I don't notice all the accusations placed against me, or don't feel like digging some of them up (one of the votes placed against me was someone I forgot, who just called me a bad player and bailed). Others don't seem to justify a response, such as Ged, who didn't really provide enough to react to.
@Cyan: Acknowledged.
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That's legit.
I'm having a really hard time reading pinkys_brain's posts. Just throwing that out there.
I missed you.
In the future, consider reading the thread before leveling this sort of baseless accusation.
B)Why did you seem to consider joining the bandwagon yourself(even acknowledging some of Mzztr's scummy behavior) if you had such problems with it?
Your story doesn't feel like it is adding up here.
I love you in this game.
Pretty sure I've already stated that it has no bearing on my opinion of Niv, at least alignment-wise.
OH MY GOD I'M NOT ALONE
I love you, Ged.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This should be fun
Also, please, no more greek text. Thanks.
EWP: @Iso: Nothin. You scum in this game?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So who was saying that Bolly was jumpy? Because rereading his posts, he was towntelling like crazy. Whoever that was is probably scum.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So I've just started a second job, which means I'm working 13 hour days with not much guaranteed time to be able to access mafia.
Seeing as this is the newest game I'm in (and biggest, so most posts for me to fall behind on), it makes sense for me to bow out of this one.
Mod: could you please find me a replacement?
Apologies for any inconvenience - hope to play with you all soon!
Uhh...everyone who was reading critically? In the grand scheme of things, how many favors do you think posting this did you?
Also, Zeld needs more votes.
So you're saying that Iso and Seppel aren't serious when they do that? They've never once been town and acted that way?
Different people act different ways. DH's early game behavior is not a scum tell. Especially considering that he made the same post in the Theory/Discussion thread(or maybe the Council thread) before this game ever started. That post is not a scum-tell, period.
What about Cyan's? There's a sufficient amount of description there. As well, I do not believe that
How does Void's reasoning follow yours, then? The quoted sentence from Void clearly implies that it makes Niv look worse as a result.
What is your opinion on Artifice 101?
As well, you have not shown exactly where Dragonheart said (or implied) that he was town.
Vote MzztrTetris
I look at the first post of the game, and I see a post that pretty much states that Dragonheart is used to fast-paced mafia and does not play like Iso.
This post hurts my sides from all the lulz.
1.)...because I perceived that a bandwagon was forming quick, even though half of it couldn't provide a reason right away? I get it, I acted quickly.
2.) Cyan sort of had a point, that he's outlined further now. Dragon was either towntelling or scumslipping, and it's weird to jump at that so quickly. But I think Tezz was playing catch up, and made a stupid vote. Cyan and Tezz's current discussion could change how I feel about that vote.
3.) Because it's being spun in a thousand directions. I saw that Cyan managed to get an actually good player behind a bandwagon almost on pure merit of being Cyan, that seemed weird to me. I acknowledged that Cyan was a good player and that, if town, his read could matter. But caution is good, because at 6 pages in, it's still hard to figure out who's what with clarity. Those were my opinions at the time of the post.
In the future, consider posting your reasons along with, or soon after you vote for someone. "Chugga Chugga Choo Choo," is not generally considered a reason.
I'll be honest, I don't usually (as in; in none of my finished games) have any solid reads. Doesn't help that I'm a mediocre-at-best fairly-inexperienced player. But:
FoS
Artifice
Bolly
Artifice jumping to defend Bolly was so weird that it cast suspicion on Bolly's jumpiness, which I wasn't overly worried about until that point (one of those things that warrants keeping an eye on, if not anything drastic).
Probably Town:
Dragonheart
Cyan
Cyan said it best, for a player entering a new meta to do something as scummy as what Dragon did with the introductions, and describing scummy things he does in his first post almost, it'd take a lot of guts. I just don't have Dragon read as the sort of person to try some hardcore gambit like that.
My inno reading on Cyan can be, to a lesser degree, be extended to Iso. Mafiosos don't tend to paint targets that big on themselves. Given that I've played with Iso before, and seen him do even more insane things as mafia, I can never really be sure.
1.) My dumb, new-to-MTGS-Mafia ass, got that vibe from AsianInvasion seeing "Cyan's word," as reason to vote. Felt it would be strange to completely discredit Cyan's read. I now know better.
2.) I've indirectly addressed Cyan's accusations, which are more or less what everyone else said. I expressed that I didn't like the bandwagon on Tezz, then wondered aloud whether or not Cyan is enough reason to vote for someone. Something I've phrased probably three times this post.
Ged barely said anything, and might as well have quoted Cyan word for word. Don't feel the need to address accusations that have already been levelled at me, and that aren't even typed out into a couple of sentences.
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Which you know because of his meta elsewhere? Which isn't an excuse for this that post?
Never leave again.
Because of this post. Also, pretty sure you did this exact same thing for days on end in StarTrek and were scum.
Curious, did you actually look at his evidence, or did you just vote him because idunnolol? His post is a pretty standard newbie introduction.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
this sentence:
I'll be honest, I don't usually (as in; in none of my finished games) have any solid reads. Doesn't help that I'm a mediocre-at-best fairly-inexperienced player. But:
should be THIS sentence: (bolded added words)
I'll be honest, I don't usually (as in; in none of my finished games) have any solid reads [B]on day one[B]. Doesn't help that I'm a mediocre-at-best fairly-inexperienced player. But:
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Vote Count:
Zelderex (5): Ged, Arcadic, Cyan, AsianInvasion, tordeck, [Niv]
Cyan (2): zindabad, Wrath_of_DoG
Dragonheart91 (2): MzztrTetris, kill-joy
MzztrTetris (2): Dragonheart91, NeedMoreAssumptions
Bolly (1): Chickenfish
Chickenfish (1): Iso
AsianInvasion (1): pinkys_brain
Iso(1): Artifice_101
Not Voting:
Zelderex, Zajnet, Archonoid, DRey, Void
Note: That quote is relevant to the two players replacing, too.
pretty sure that whether or not it actually is a tell, when someone knows for themselves that their town, and someone else disagrees with them, inherently, they may make that connection. It's actual validity can certainly be questioned, but what the little exchange between Iso and Ged does for me is give me a strong town read on Ged for suggesting that as a tell this game.
With regards to how I play:
I feel like Zeld is just attacking me for how I simply posted that I thought that they were self destructing. the playstyle that I've developed is me usually posting what I think are quick notes/opinions to the thread. I'll gladly elaborate when someone asks, or if I feel that it's necessary.
that being said, a response to Zeld:
I think your first post has been discussed more than enough, but I'll go into details on your one where I referred to you as self destructing.
you opened up by acknowledging that you're acting "scummy as ****" and that that is the only way you managed to remove the speed and force from behind tetris' wagon. that wagon had 2(3) votes on it, and wasn't about to be lynched anytime soon. the second half of your post you "defend" yourself in such a poor fashion. Early wagons will usually be "almost baseless". You find someone whose done one or two scummy things, stuff that stands out, I would have found tetris' vote scummy without Cyan, and your fear of the wagon specifically beacuse of Cyan being on it is awkward. you also do an amazing job of not responding to most of the actual accusations against you.
I also hate how you're gonna accuse me of stealing my explanation from tordek. I'm sorry that I wasn't the first one to post following your post, but I'm pretty sure me and him having similar impressions of the post is not me stealing my opinion from him.
with regards to bad player = scum:
you are acting extremely scummy. if this is just simply how you play, eventually you'll just get lynched in every game you play in, or vigged. why, beacuse we have no way of reading you without a cop investigation, and even those aren't 100% of the time. We're not wagoning dragonheart because he is not acting extremely scummy.
to restate: If you honestly act this scummy in every game, you're going to get lynched every game, or vigged every game, until you change that play. there is a difference between bad play and scummy play.
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I do agree that we do need some scum games to compile a true "meta" on you. but since meta is usually bunk anwho, I'm not going to waste 2 hours reading every game you've been in to come up with something I really don't need.
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with regards to Dragonhearts comment on Tetris:
While I do agree with you tetris is hella scummy, and if Zeld wasn't the bigger focus they'd be getting a harder look, not everyone lives on this fourm, though some of us do, so, pushing on him for "disappearing" isn't really a strike against him.
on momentum to lynch someone early:
Back in my day, that never used to be the case. people were pushed to at least -2 very quickly
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Zeld responds to some of the acusations actually here still ignores a good chunk of the real issue though. the accusation at AI is really poor. Cyan points this out quite nicely in his next post.
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for what it's worth, I'm having issues reading pinky as well. nothing alignment wise, just the way their worded amongst the quotes. Personally, I was noticing how poor some of my quote walls looked, so, I'm trying to minimize my use of quotes :P.
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Art, I think most people were finding Bolly scummy in the RVS, myself included, though, they weren't my biggest scum read during all of that. not sure why you needed to ask this though, this isn't a big thread to read, go read it.
not looking good from the get go.
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Tetris: pretty sure you're fully cemented in my #2 slot after post 213
Council thread post count
Theory thread post count
ctrl + f his name. there's 11 posts. go.
what's even worse though is that you're questioning Cyan here. there is no reason cyan is lying, the number of people in this game that can verify this is very high. if he was lying, he'd be caught already.
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surprised that NMA is asking for a read on Artifice. while I think his first two posts since replacing for bolly are odd and out of place, that is nowhere near a solid read, and I can't expect anyone to have one.
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Tetris: your explation on the vote on dragon here results in this:
BorkBorkBorkBorkBork
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Zeld: Cyan is Cyan. the biggest scum tell for Cyan is being alive at endgame.
with regards to your post in general:
I think you're actually doing a decent job at this point, and I'm willing to change my focus to tetris. his post 222 specifically reads well.
Unvote (lol), Vote Mzztrtetris
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC