Yeah you played a great game and acted like our Vig for a good while, but in the end you were a 3rd party role. And the best of those 3rd parties so you should have that MVP, not the town's. Understand what I am saying?
I agree with tordeck. There are times where I jokingly have said that some neutral should be town MVP, but I was never serious about it. If there is no townie to give the award to, then, just don't give it to anyone.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well played, Iso. I began to suspect you on the last day like everyone else, but I didn't get here soon enough to stop the shutdown. Oh well, that's what we get for trusting neutrals and not listening to Zinda.
Well, my main conundrum as the SK was choosing between:
Killing townies to prevent them from hunting me
Killing Neutrals to prevent a Shutdown
Killing mafia to prevent them from winning and potentially outing me
Killing players who would suspect me as the SK
With your death, Cyouni, my prerogatives were the latter two. I figured that if anyone alive would figure out who I was, it would be either you or KCC, so I had to ensure that you two died. KCC just happened to set herself up for death by claiming town as a Neutral, so I let that happen of its own accord.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I dont think the Town MVP should go to a non-town player. Either pick which of us townies played the best or dont out. Giving it to a neutral after we lost in such a fashion is just a slap in the face.
Well, if one of you is more deserving in your view I'd be curious as to why. Like, Iso did the best job of killing the scum, and considering the town thought that was all they had to do he was thus doing the town's job better than them. AE killed Niv, but that was basically anticlimax at that point. Zinda did good analysis, and Guardman was important in outing TCM, but they both died too early to have a major impact. And I don't think the town was likely to lynch Cyouni, at least not at the time Iso shot him. Maybe if he hadn't done that, things would be different.
I agree with tordeck. There are times where I jokingly have said that some neutral should be town MVP, but I was never serious about it. If there is no townie to give the award to, then, just don't give it to anyone.
That's no less an unkind gesture. Anyone who follows the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction like I do know's there's no greater indignity than giving no award to the field. And I think Iso deserves it for his play.
Obviously, hindsight is 20/20, but the reason I tried to hide among the neutrals was twofold:
1). Everyone was claiming now.
After the first few claims, no one was really being hunted by the town. I figured that after the claims were done, they would hunt the players who hadn't claimed neutral, which was every member of the mafia.
2). I did not anticipate Guardman
Plain and simple, I did not expect there would be a role that would state the number of neutrals who won. I anticipated maybe, there might me a role that reveals the number of neutrals, kind of like a Census type role for neutrals, but never Guardman's ability. I also did not anticipate the sheer number of neutrals in the game. If you look at my wagon on both days, it was primarily neutral driven, meaning trying to play to the town, did not work out for me.
Which kind of leads to my next point: In my opinion with a small mafia, there were too many non-mafia kills. If I read the roles correctly, hypothetically, we could have lost the game at the end of night 1 ><. As it turned out, both Niv AND Cyouni were shot the night I died. I literally spat out my water after reading that, and didn't even care about my other irrelevant ability.
@Xyre: I also figured out Niv/Void was Zionite's mafia lover on Day 1. So even if AE hadn't shot, I would have pushed that lynch. In fairness, Wuffles, dan, Archonoid, Tordeck, AE, and I all figured out Cyouni was scum at around the same time.
@E_P: You never really expressed why. All you said was "the case on WoD is bad." Please elaborate.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Welp, I took some time and read through the Groups.
My thoughts:
1. Stupid Neutral Spy.
2. I'd really like to know why Wuffles figured me as scum. The chat never said why.
3. Work on distance with scumbuddies. (I suspect I would want to be a Mafia Traitor. Stupid extra knowledge automatically affects my actions, and I haven't been successfully able to black it out yet.)
@Iso: Shouldn't have killed me when everyone was suspicious of Void.
It made me sad that the rapidly shrinking mafia forced me to play trying to keep them alive. Also, at our "fifth" member trying to win with the town.
Thinking on it, for the reaction to WoD's failed toughguy shot, I figured Iso was the SK but couldn't afford to stick my neck out to try and get him lynched given the rest of my team was looking towards death at that point. That's probably why my reaction was off there.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@E_P: You never really expressed why. All you said was "the case on WoD is bad." Please elaborate.
I thought you were lying, and once proven it confirmed the behavior pattern to me: you were not neutral. You were playing to the town win condition. In fact, you were extremely townie and the gambiting to kill a scum at all cost only made it seem more genuine (because you had a personal stake in the death of scum). To me that made you lying about just about anything. Also, you were too proud showing off your three votes and going "hey guys! three votes! can't be scum with three votes!" (obviously hyperbole, but you get the idea). Actually, you played (to me) a lot like zindabad in ged's normal.
In the end, you would have been better claiming town and not playing neutral.
I would have done that but couldn't risk a role like Archonoid's potentially existing. My question in the beginning regarding shutdown was to weigh how much of a threat the Neutrals were going to be to me and I was clearly self-interested at the beginning - claiming Neutral was my only way out of (another) Day 1 lynch. So I filled my game with pro-town self-risking options and played on the edge to remove myself as a lynch option. I played like a Neutral role in that regard - putting my neck on the line to ensure my survival.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh, and I couldn't risk getting targeted with my immunity only partially claimed. Because why would a townie be immune to town and mafia abilities? Why not just Untargetable?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd have claimed untargetable. It'd have removed a small bit of doubt from my mind, but probably not enough.
Seriously, a triple-voter that's immune to town and mafia abilities, which has a SK-finding ability that doubles as a wincon, that isn't dead by the SK? I'm surprised no one really decided to go after you earlier.
At least claiming untargetable would have provided a reason why you were still alive.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But again, there's no guarantee that a Neutral wouldn't have targeted me - and KCC did. So she would have called me out and I would have been lynched for lying...again.
Anyway, you tied yourself pretty thoroughly to WoD's hip during his lynch.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Nah, I would have done that anyways. There was no reason to trust you, especially given you claimed triple-voting neutral who's immune to mafia abilities. I'm still surprised at least half the players didn't find anything unusual about that.
You could probably have gone immune to mafia abilities -> untargetable without a hitch.
actually, he did claim that, only to amend his claim later. It was a huge deal that no-one caught. The fact that he was ignored after a classic SK claim is also very sad.
I feel like the game would have been better balanced between town/scum/neutral if there were less kills floating around. Its also quite bastardy to put a role that kills the lowest poster when you have infinite roles that need claims and role information to win. I mean, i died making actual posts despite my plan to lurk day 1 to get the information my role needed while a player who disapeared after the game started (and who made 17 posts of no content) and also i made a POST PER DAY. *I'm a bit bitter about this, yes*
I probably screwed myself when the first players claimed and didn't claim their rolenames. Then again, them not claiming them and no-one else wanting them to claim them spelled doom as well.
That's no less an unkind gesture. Anyone who follows the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction like I do know's there's no greater indignity than giving no award to the field. And I think Iso deserves it for his play.
Then give him the third party mvp and decide which of the town played the best, regardless of whatifs and how long they were in the game. Giving iso the town mvp is a kick in the balls for those us that were town.
Then give him the third party mvp and decide which of the town played the best, regardless of whatifs and how long they were in the game. Giving iso the town mvp is a kick in the balls for those us that were town.
I can do that for you my friend!
If I had powers my awards would be.
town MVP Zinda died early but post were always good, like always, looked like the only townie that noticed neutrals were a big threat and should not be trusted.
Neutral MVP This one is not even close, GDan showed how it's done, another masterfully played game by him. Congrats my friend. Now come and play dota with me.
Mafia MVP Not very close too, Cyoni was the best mafia player here, that being said the mafia here was pretty underwhelming, I think I've pegged them all on D1... and this has never happened before. That being said I think I can read Cyoni as scum now.
Serial Killer MVP Certainly Iso! Seriously I think Iso played very well here, while I was alive I didn't suspect him of being the SK at all, and he managed to avoid suspition like a pro for quite sometime. Unfortunately for him mafia crumbed pretty early nulling his chances, the thing is, when you are the SK you can't risk shooting scum when you need them, so you must shot the most obvtown as possible, like I did when I played SK in Cyberpunk.
Random comments
When I replaced in I instanly noticed the plan was to weaken both town and mafia, to shutdown asap while I did some scumhunt I was mostly not interested in lynching scum. I also avoided helping the other neutrals filling the own wincons until I've completed mine to prevent a shutdown before I was ready. It's kinda strange to me town didn't notice neutrals weren't really interested in lynching the SK, but to shutdown. I expected shutdown to happen much early.
I don't understand the reasoning mafia killed me, even after knowing my full role. I was not a doc, I was a lyncher. I was always trying to "doc" the most likely player to be lynched next day, therefore the chances of me hitting the same guy mafia tried to NK were very small. In even protected TIK for you guys.
While I enjoyed the flavor, I didn't understand everything, maybe because I don't know the previous games, maybe because my english is not good enough... but this game was thrilling to me the whole time, particularly the RVS, it was like the best RVS I've read evar. Thanks guys, you are all awesome. The only thing I greatly disliked was the long nights, next time you don't have time to write everything just start the day without flavor Xyre, we just want to proceed with the game!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
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Yeah you played a great game and acted like our Vig for a good while, but in the end you were a 3rd party role. And the best of those 3rd parties so you should have that MVP, not the town's. Understand what I am saying?
The Family
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Especially neutral Doctors, which gives two benefits. One, no stupid random protect screwing up my shots. Two, less neutrals.
Iso, why did you kill me anyways?
Killing townies to prevent them from hunting me
Killing Neutrals to prevent a Shutdown
Killing mafia to prevent them from winning and potentially outing me
Killing players who would suspect me as the SK
With your death, Cyouni, my prerogatives were the latter two. I figured that if anyone alive would figure out who I was, it would be either you or KCC, so I had to ensure that you two died. KCC just happened to set herself up for death by claiming town as a Neutral, so I let that happen of its own accord.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, if one of you is more deserving in your view I'd be curious as to why. Like, Iso did the best job of killing the scum, and considering the town thought that was all they had to do he was thus doing the town's job better than them. AE killed Niv, but that was basically anticlimax at that point. Zinda did good analysis, and Guardman was important in outing TCM, but they both died too early to have a major impact. And I don't think the town was likely to lynch Cyouni, at least not at the time Iso shot him. Maybe if he hadn't done that, things would be different.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
That's no less an unkind gesture. Anyone who follows the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction like I do know's there's no greater indignity than giving no award to the field. And I think Iso deserves it for his play.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1). Everyone was claiming now.
After the first few claims, no one was really being hunted by the town. I figured that after the claims were done, they would hunt the players who hadn't claimed neutral, which was every member of the mafia.
2). I did not anticipate Guardman
Plain and simple, I did not expect there would be a role that would state the number of neutrals who won. I anticipated maybe, there might me a role that reveals the number of neutrals, kind of like a Census type role for neutrals, but never Guardman's ability. I also did not anticipate the sheer number of neutrals in the game. If you look at my wagon on both days, it was primarily neutral driven, meaning trying to play to the town, did not work out for me.
Which kind of leads to my next point: In my opinion with a small mafia, there were too many non-mafia kills. If I read the roles correctly, hypothetically, we could have lost the game at the end of night 1 ><. As it turned out, both Niv AND Cyouni were shot the night I died. I literally spat out my water after reading that, and didn't even care about my other irrelevant ability.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@E_P: You never really expressed why. All you said was "the case on WoD is bad." Please elaborate.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My thoughts:
1. Stupid Neutral Spy.
2. I'd really like to know why Wuffles figured me as scum. The chat never said why.
3. Work on distance with scumbuddies. (I suspect I would want to be a Mafia Traitor. Stupid extra knowledge automatically affects my actions, and I haven't been successfully able to black it out yet.)
@Iso: Shouldn't have killed me when everyone was suspicious of Void.
It made me sad that the rapidly shrinking mafia forced me to play trying to keep them alive. Also, at our "fifth" member trying to win with the town.
Thinking on it, for the reaction to WoD's failed toughguy shot, I figured Iso was the SK but couldn't afford to stick my neck out to try and get him lynched given the rest of my team was looking towards death at that point. That's probably why my reaction was off there.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In the end, you would have been better claiming town and not playing neutral.
I should probably do that more often as town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Seriously, a triple-voter that's immune to town and mafia abilities, which has a SK-finding ability that doubles as a wincon, that isn't dead by the SK? I'm surprised no one really decided to go after you earlier.
At least claiming untargetable would have provided a reason why you were still alive.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Anyway, you tied yourself pretty thoroughly to WoD's hip during his lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I had no reason to be concerned, considering I planned to recruit him that night.
actually, he did claim that, only to amend his claim later. It was a huge deal that no-one caught. The fact that he was ignored after a classic SK claim is also very sad.
I feel like the game would have been better balanced between town/scum/neutral if there were less kills floating around. Its also quite bastardy to put a role that kills the lowest poster when you have infinite roles that need claims and role information to win. I mean, i died making actual posts despite my plan to lurk day 1 to get the information my role needed while a player who disapeared after the game started (and who made 17 posts of no content) and also i made a POST PER DAY. *I'm a bit bitter about this, yes*
I probably screwed myself when the first players claimed and didn't claim their rolenames. Then again, them not claiming them and no-one else wanting them to claim them spelled doom as well.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Then give him the third party mvp and decide which of the town played the best, regardless of whatifs and how long they were in the game. Giving iso the town mvp is a kick in the balls for those us that were town.
The Family
If I had powers my awards would be.
town MVP Zinda died early but post were always good, like always, looked like the only townie that noticed neutrals were a big threat and should not be trusted.
Neutral MVP This one is not even close, GDan showed how it's done, another masterfully played game by him. Congrats my friend. Now come and play dota with me.
Mafia MVP Not very close too, Cyoni was the best mafia player here, that being said the mafia here was pretty underwhelming, I think I've pegged them all on D1... and this has never happened before. That being said I think I can read Cyoni as scum now.
Serial Killer MVP Certainly Iso! Seriously I think Iso played very well here, while I was alive I didn't suspect him of being the SK at all, and he managed to avoid suspition like a pro for quite sometime. Unfortunately for him mafia crumbed pretty early nulling his chances, the thing is, when you are the SK you can't risk shooting scum when you need them, so you must shot the most obvtown as possible, like I did when I played SK in Cyberpunk.
Random comments
When I replaced in I instanly noticed the plan was to weaken both town and mafia, to shutdown asap while I did some scumhunt I was mostly not interested in lynching scum. I also avoided helping the other neutrals filling the own wincons until I've completed mine to prevent a shutdown before I was ready. It's kinda strange to me town didn't notice neutrals weren't really interested in lynching the SK, but to shutdown. I expected shutdown to happen much early.
I don't understand the reasoning mafia killed me, even after knowing my full role. I was not a doc, I was a lyncher. I was always trying to "doc" the most likely player to be lynched next day, therefore the chances of me hitting the same guy mafia tried to NK were very small. In even protected TIK for you guys.
While I enjoyed the flavor, I didn't understand everything, maybe because I don't know the previous games, maybe because my english is not good enough... but this game was thrilling to me the whole time, particularly the RVS, it was like the best RVS I've read evar. Thanks guys, you are all awesome. The only thing I greatly disliked was the long nights, next time you don't have time to write everything just start the day without flavor Xyre, we just want to proceed with the game!
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.