MTG Salvation

Quote from A Bear

It wasn't wine, though. Acio just posted something that he shouldn't have. If you had made a proper argument about why it was wine, perhaps you would have saved yourself from that lynch... but you didn't.

It was wine and I did make the proper argument as to why it was. Anytime a crumbed or even confirmed PR is still alive and someone asks why it is nothing but wine. Because unless a scum is going to out themselves and directly explain it the only possible answers are going to be hypothetical in nature. There is no way to get a definitive answer when you ask questions like WoD was doing and all he was doing was adding wine to the table.

Your right WoD I am pissed. this game should have been a scum win but because of apathy, disappearing players and terrible play by the TOWN, it ended up a town win. Do you see where and why I would be frustrated. Town won by playing like ****. Towns that play like **** deserve to lose and 99% of the time they do. To be in that 1% sucks.

Tordeck: you are being aggressive and confrontational. Please dial it down a bit.

That said, let's take a look at what happened to each of the scums.

ChocoPi: made an awful claim. Got vigged for it.
TCM: Played well. Got SK'd for playing well (I assume).
Acionyx: Investigated by jd and found scum. Lynched.
zindabad: Vigged by jd.
poggydude: Modkilled.
Tordeck: lynched.
SharkFinnigan (SK): Vigged.

On the one hand, there are a number of people on this list who caused their own downfall. ChocoPi's death can be directly traced to his claim. poggydude was never more than tolerated. Tordeck did fine, but PI had already spoiled that role's credibility, and Tordeck never managed to claw back out of that hole.

On the other hand, TCM was playing well before his death, and I don't think any of Acionyx, zindabad or Shark were close to being lynched before night actions were taken against them. That is a lot of scum taken out by night actions rather than analysis/lynching.

The modkills at the end were bad for the scum, but it looks like Tordeck was going to get lynched if poggy and sXe were around, and poggy had not built up any townie cred to stop himself from being lynched the next day.

Overall, I can understand Tordeck's frustrations, but half of the mafia (poggy, CPi, and Prime Intellect) screwed up Day 1, and the endgame was seeded there. That said, without some excellent night choices and some luck from both jdisawesomesauce and the Arnnaria/Dork Knight/sXe crew (I can't remember who was alive on which nights) the town wouldn't have made it to the endgame. Not a stellar game for either side as a whole, but with some individual standouts, and more of those among the scum.

Well players like jd and sXe found me a bit scummy but I did fairly well considering where I was.

Tcm I killed cause he seemed passive. Smart and dangerous. I made a good kill (for town)

Basically yea town got lucky but scum didn't help matters either.

Thanks Acionyx. :3 Hope to see you in a future game with both of us town, in that case.

Opinions from an outside perspective.

I fully disagree with Tordeck, there's no way for scum to have won this game, the fact that you managed to no-lynch (the best possible outcome) despite overwhelming evidence (that had zero WIFOM, sorry) against you was fundamentally for the fact that Poggy and SP had flaked from the game, this is not acceptable neither a honorable a way to win, the modkills were 110% correct and necessary. If there's a game I agreed with a modkill it was this one.

That being said I don't think town has played really well this game, but certain players and a bit of luck pushed the game into town hands, that's the way it is in high powered/variance games, sometimes a vig kills 2 scum and the cop investigates another one ftw, sometimes the vig shoots the cop and the doc and town crash and burns.

I disagree Choco's gambit was bad and unnecessary, I liked his thought process and I think he was playing well more often than not, if the vig haven't shoot him I could totally see him endgaming because of his claim. ALso the scum made a BIG mistake in letting the vig live for so long, even when the vig shoots town he's helping town because it's one less mislynch, there's a reason vigs are the strongest power roles of all (yes, vigs are stronger than cops).

TIK being SKed was not a "coincidence" or luck shot, SK's need to remove the strongest players from the game because it's the only way for then to endgame. Strong players are not lynched, strong players can sense your hidden agenda, strong players need to die asap. I think Shark played well too.

Overall I think mafia played better than town, maybe if mafia had better luck or choose their NK's slightly better I could see they winning this... but this was not meant to be.

I honestly expected Shark to make it to endgame.

Also, I think this game has sadly shown how Normals have fallen out of favor in our meta. I mean, half of the players weren't even from this site and it STILL had trouble filling up and completing.

Disappointing, really. You all should have given r_0 more of a chance.

Quote from Iso

I honestly expected Shark to make it to endgame.

Also, I think this game has sadly shown how Normals have fallen out of favor in our meta. I mean, half of the players weren't even from this site and it STILL had trouble filling up and completing.

Disappointing, really. You all should have given r_0 more of a chance.

I got aggravated by the way our (mason JOAT) roles worked.

It's one thing to say that we have x abilities available that we can still use even if some of us die. Doesn't make sense flavourfully as much, but mechanically it's sound.

But then, to come and say (and only AFTER we already chose our cop target) that each individual person brings abilities to the group, AND that we only get result PMs for the abilities our character brings to the group, yet we STILL have access to the abilities as a group after our character dies, if they were unused?

Well, that makes sense neither mechanically nor flavourfully.

The design of the game seems pretty sound, and I think it could have been a really awesome game, if it had been reviewed more thoroughly, and had a more enthusiastic player base and mod.

Poggy had a nice false-claim.

Quote from Wrath_of_DoG

if it had been reviewed more thoroughly

FWIW, I had nothing to do with the particular complaint you have re: the masons. If you have any other concerns with the review process, let me know if you'd like to discuss them.

Eh,

No particular complaints about my play. I dislike SKs, for the very reason shown: I died and it ended up hurting my team not because I slipped, but because Shark saw me as a threat. I doubt any town role would have blindly aimed at me, as no one had any real (stated) suspicion (Iso claims he suspected me, but he never said so in game).

Tordeck, I see your anger, Drey can confirm I share your anger. But in the end, we can only be upset by the circumstance, not the town's play. I must accept my 2nd loss, and my record is forever broken (I was more bitter about Xyre's game, than this one, but eh).

I lurk around, since I know my game is coming up/student teaching. But I have no intention of disappearing. Just stop making me scum, its getting really annoying. A few more games, and I might just be the default day 1 lynch, since I seem to be scum, more than town.

So, always policy lynch you on Day 1. Got it.

The sad part is, with the luck of the draw I am having, it may not be such a crazy idea ><.

I have a 33% scum game completion rate. (lowers a little if you consider what I call incomplete games as I have never replaced out as scum)