Stop flailing Hawk. I don't have to constantly move my vote whenever one wagon hanged size in order for me to be willing to hammer any of you 3. It's not inconsistent, it's just me not doing extra work when my Internet is down.
Asenion, if it's just that you're phone-posting and thus haven't gotten to my post, that's fine, but note that I asked you a question at the bottom of #222 (the hideous textwall that you're probably ignoring if your internet is restricted). To save you having to find it:
@Asenion: Um, in addition to Hawk's call-out, if Id's claim is "definitely scummy", why aren't you voting him for it?
Yes thank you. I saw that post and noped right past it. I'll read it in a bit when I'm home. I would like to consider my vote on both Id and Hawk. I can't imagine how either of them are town.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Intermittent v/la for the weekend. I'll probably have some access, but I don't have any guarantees. Plus, my first priority will be my own game, if needed.
@Cantrip, I don't like your lengthy troublesome to read wall-posts, but I do agree with everything you have said in it, enough to even convince me to support your wagon toDay.
Unvote, Vote: Id_Ego for everything Cantripmancer said. This should put him at L-2 right?
Regarding Hawk; I agree with the couple of things he has recently said about Asension. They ring true to me, which is weird because I also agree with the things Asension has said about Hawk. I am conflicted about both of them right now. Could they be scum busing/distancing each other? Possibly. I am fine with an Id_Ego lynch today, but I feel we should keep a close eye on both of them going forward.
His case on me is that I didn't move my vote. Btw consider I'd at effectively L-1. If he doesn't have some grand revelation to save himsel I'm ready to lynch him as soon as everyone has their final thoughts down.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
His case on me is that I didn't move my vote. Btw consider I'd at effectively L-1. If he doesn't have some grand revelation to save himsel I'm ready to lynch him as soon as everyone has their final thoughts down.
He is now at L-2 and people who don't vote him to avoid placing him at L-1 is a perfectly fine excuse now. The problem is, you DIDN'T move your vote when he wasn't at L-2, despite the fact that you said you would vote for the strongest wagon among those three players.
Your text walls are obnoxious so I'll restate your question and then answer them.
What did I accomplish?
I already stated that I tested the NLP policy, I got the game moving forward and I got a better understanding on how zinger plays not to mention tons of reactions out of the majority of the players in the game some of which I needed better reads on. I'm voting for you because your motive behind your actions towards generic don't make any sense from town perspective and you contradict yourself. You made him claim for no reason and then cleared him for no reason. You've gone after two weak wagons very half assed so far.
Here are your posts on why you are voting me. Let me show you the validity of them.
1. You barn asenions post which I've already talked about and explained myself. He pointed out an inconsistency in which I explained why I wanted others to act and still voted you. If you didn't like my answer you should discuss that and not older posts that have already been touched on.
2a. I already stated that I am resolved and have confidence in my play. I'm convinced you are scum.
2b. I've been fighting with myself over how I want to play my role and I think that claiming is correct.
I belive if I do it during twilight, it will create beneficial WIFOM to disrupt and throw off what the scum should do at night.
2c. Believe it or not, the scum team involves more than 1 person. The day isn't over. You aren't the only scum. Someone else might get pushed in to claim range if we find a slip up.
2d. Reread 2b and 2c.
Please explain the following:
Why is role claiming in twilight scummy? Why is trying to instigate players in to posting more when the game stalls out to a post a day scummy? Why is voting for someone I believe is scum scummy?
Your vote holds no weight.
@Everyone else.
I'm perfectly fine roleclaiming whenever. I'm actually really excited about how it will play out
Firstly, I'm sorry I'm the focus of converation and have alot of questions to answer. So should I not quote anyone anymore?
Again, I did not intend to make him claim you and you keep inisting that I did (your peristent refusal to believe the explenation is baffling). Even if I did intend to make him claim, what good would it do? If I'm scum, putting him at l-2 with complete knowledge that he would claim so early in the game is baffling. then, after i intentionally make an early claim push, I intentionally push away from it claiming he seems more town? In what possible scenario doe thiss ever make sense?
1. Well conzidering no one waz talking about it AT ALL, I believed that people may have mizzed it. alzo, sinze you don't care about my explenationz, why zhould I care about yourz? but alaz, I'll play fair... here are azzenion main 4 pointz.
In this post: Redacted
You said that you were waiting to vote until you saw what the rest of us did. This shows that you are basing your actions on what others think of the game state and playing a reactionary game.
Coupled with this post: Redacted Which is responding to someone suggesting pressure on you, and it shows a clear scum mindset.
-Strike 1: Wanting to evaluate others opinions and react to them before forming opinions of your own.
-Strike 2: Arrogance in the face of your own safety.
-Strike 3: Reminding people that their lynch choices are "limited" and suggesting that they have to lynch from a specific pool of people that you have approved.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present our first scum lynch of the game. Unvote Vote 7hawk77
My last two posts consisted of trying to get players to do anything in the game because it started stagnating. I explicitly stated that ego should vote for emo to see if he would try and buddy my post to get pressure off of himself. I waited a little while to vote to make sure that if anyone wanted to vote Ego. I was hoping one of you four would vote so I could keep my vote on emo.
If I come across as arrogant, I apologize. I'm just resolved to do better this game because I've hit a rough patch in mafia lately. I'm also trying to play with more confidence because second guessing myself gets me nowhere.
You only adrzzed the firzt point, fenze zitting. and the 2nd point, arrogance.
You FAILED to adrezz strike 3, and alzo zub point: reacitng to zomeone'z zuggezted prezzure on you.
Alzo, trying to inztegate more out of me by telling me to vote zomeone iz increbily flawed and zcummy. you were baiting a reaction, which iz zcummy. and you imply told me to vote emo, which az I already pointed out waz exteremely flawed logic. zo why wazte time by baiting a rection very poorly? unlezz you wanted to zeem like you are trying to hold off on your vote... which why would you want to do that anywayz?
2. If your zo convinced I'm zcum, why are you hiding behind the zmoke that I won't get lynched? Do you really believe that I won't, and if zo why not? yez, there are more than 1 zcum, but what exactly makez you think they are ztupid enough to zlip zo badly that I will not get lynched?
Admittedly my next reveal for the day will make thiz point moot, but I felt like adrezzing it.
Roleclaiming in twilight iz not zcummy, what iz iz zaying "I'm gonna fullclaim, but wait until twilight guyz" thatz defelcting ANY and all prezzure off of you, zo no wagon will pozzibly get you to L-2 to get you to claim. also, it's not the firzt time you have azked people to wait for explenationz.
Trying to inztigate more convzation izn't zcummy, batiing iz. and badly baiting at that.
You're vote on me haz nothing to with the fact that you are zcum, azide from the fact that you are puzhing for a mizlynch with a promize of fullclaim.
Oh yea, and tunnel vision= BAD for town. unless you have a reason to tunnel, which unless you are a night 0 cop, you don't.
confirm vote
If you really don't think thiz wagon iz going to get off the ground, then go ahead and claim.
@cantrip: the z thing iz an aumzing way a friend zugezzted i get around my s key only working 25% of the time.
Thor claim: It doen't CLEAR him az town, it juzt makez him slightly more likely to be town. az for the zafe claimz, okay fine, I did a BAD meta on it, zo generic iz ztill pretty bad for puzhing the wagon bazed on NLP. but right now, the only zcum I'm looking at iz Hawk.
zafe claimz: The only game where I had "safe" claimz waz zome god or demigod game. I choze a god on the lizt that waz similar in flavor to Hadez. "zafe" claim indeed... but, if it hadn't been for the mazonz, we would have won... /reminzance.
and I undeztand that, but you need to underztand that the "participation" i zaw available waz involving NLP... which I wanted to shift away from.
confrim vote: and zo we are at the point where i azk the queztion, in my mindzet of him only being at L-3 when I "confirm voted," where iz that not okay? I already underztand the not participating part, but why iz the fact that I "purpozefully made him claim" iz ztill a point againzt me?
Paraphrase of flavor: I am a spy I steal secrets.
(and as for the s key not working, I guess it has spontaneously decided to work most of the time now...)
@ cantrip, you are of courze azzuming that we don't have a vig, which would change things greatly. Alzo you are azzuming 2 mizlynches in a row... which I would hope could be prevented by a town of all abilities... and the mod meta thinking of this possibility.
@GT: My opinion of zinger is that he is claim hopping like a mofo. He /barns all of my points, turns around at a point by cantrip that my ability might cuse more harm than good (but honestly, it's the price certain roles play: vig, roleblock). he also retracts his reasons for voting hawk, but still somehow thinks that he and assenion could be scum bussing (which i agree with), but rathe than putting his vote on either of the two he states might be bussing, he puts the vote on someone who's power is too powerful to be scum, but a double edged sword to town (again vig, roleblock, heck even doctor if it blocks vig kill). I honestly had this opion before I came to answering this question (as in, made the oinion today. I was going to keep it secret, but since you asked...) but I think it's a scum team of Zinger, Assenion, and Hawk.
Look at the inteactions of the 3. Assenion busing Hawk, Hawk's refusal to take Assenion's votes with any weight, zinger hops on hawk's bus, BEFORE I get involved, then when I do, swings his vote away from hawk, retract his INITIAL reason for voting hawk, based off what I said, yet still putting mroe wieght behind what I said than his initial barn for hawk. oportunistic, wildly swinging votes. then he puts me at L-2, asking if that puts me at L-2. is it to say he's not sure?
FoS zinger. and I'm for a zinger vote but right now I really don't like hawk, atleast not until he claims and prove that he in't BSing us... again.
Oh yea, and I forgot the part where hawk continued to persue the NLP, even after it had been stated several times that it was null. it just got us back to NLP again...
TLDR: Zinger, Hawk, Assenion for scum team. and if you DR, well then read and find out why... mostly @Hawk, @GT
TLDR2: Cantrip's scenario is a little flawed. see @cantrip for more.
Also, I would like to ask: WITHOUT VOTING. is it the intention of the rest of the nonvoting members to vote me? if so I have one last counterpoint. Also, anyone currently voting, would you move your vote?
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"I hate day 1" << In context, I find this very odd.
~
Zinger...Hawk...Asenion team. You really like Asenion's points against hawk... Your points against Z don't jiive well with #206 to me... in fact 206 re:Z is pretty terrible.
~
You're insisting that being Thor makes you more likely town if it's true...which is just flat-wrong. That stinks of defensiveness.
I guess I'll do this by reading a page and posting my thoughts. (40ppp)
Page 1
RVS, RVS, NLP?
Oh, that's interesting. Zinger gives himself a self imposed posting restriction.
Don't really like it, but whatever.
Ascension votes zinger because of the posting restriction. Fair enough, they can be annoying.
Generic's barn of the sentiment and questioning of the policy is oddly aggressive. Scumslip? Really?
Some pressure to match the aggression, cool.
@TK-Mod: Are the players voting listed in order of votes placed? If so, is Id_Ego being listed before Zinger an error? I see Zinger voting Hawk in 177 and Id voting Hawk in 207.
No. I'm using the Mafia Vote Counter to keep track, and apparently it just shuffles them around I can keep track of order for Day 2 if you like
Wow, that escalates quickly.
Irebel matches aggression with aggression, but cantrip goes with a less abrasive approach and gets an actual conversation out of generic. +town points for cantrip.
/barn asenion in #60. The moment a self imposed restriction negatively impacts the game is the moment the player upholding it should be lynched.
Zinger's nlp why is irrelevant imho.
'confirm vote'
That's a spicy unexplained vote.
And it draws a name claim from generic. Bleh.
I understand generic's indignation at his wagon, it did kind of come out of nowhere.
I am intrigued by zinger's sudden aggression after the wagon hits l-2.
I guess I'll do this by reading a page and posting my thoughts. (40ppp)
I've never seen someone catch up using this method, but so far it seems to be quite effective! I'll wait for you to finish before asking questions though.
Unvote
New player and analysis. I want to read. Right now I would rather lynch Hawk, but I will still lynch Id. And seriously guys, you are blowing me not moving my vote way out of proportion. It's just me being lazy.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
It's giving me a headache reading ego's post. You should get a new keyboard.
I kept reading the post in my head with like a vampire accent or something.
Regarding Ego, I really don't know. There have been a couple times where I was about to vote him on the basis of multiple contradictions or a role claim that seemed fit for scum, but when questions were asked by myself and others, some of his answers made me feel slightly better about him, which would postpone my suspicions until something else happened that redefined him as scummy.
As of this moment, I think that he is leaning scum, but not so much to warrant my vote. I think that his play overall can be summed up as scummy, but it didn't seem like he was intentionally leaving out any restrictions on his role. The role still just feels like a scum role by nature to me*; how sure are you guys that it couldn't be a scum role as it has been claimed right now? I think someone may have alluded to this earlier, but mayhaps the role's power was already considered and balanced by other roles that would seem overpowered by themselves?
*One time, I was in a game where a guy claimed to be a janitor after being put under pressure. At first, many people thought that the mod made it a town role on purpose to demote role-alignment assumptions, but it turned out that the guy was just inexperienced scum who didn't know that janitors are primarily mafia aligned. Could this scenario be possible in this situation?
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Is it possible to balance? Sure, is it likely to exisit in a game twisted around balancing it, in a mini no less? Less likely. At best, it can be considered as moot due to the mod gaming required to figure that out. So, ignoring the role we just have behavior which leaves a lot to be desired
I guess I'll do this by reading a page and posting my thoughts. (40ppp)
I've never seen someone catch up using this method, but so far it seems to be quite effective! I'll wait for you to finish before asking questions though.
/barn this. I am totally stealing this method of catch up from now on.
also, where do I modify posts per page options?
@hans, you say he leans scum but not enough for a vote. How much of a scum lean does someone need before you'll vote them?
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Did you read my case on Hawk? His playing shows classic scum mindset of wanting to react to and manipulate others. I haven't seen that kind of mindset from Hawk's Town games.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Also, I would like to ask: WITHOUT VOTING. is it the intention of the rest of the nonvoting members to vote me? if so I have one last counterpoint. Also, anyone currently voting, would you move your vote?
#129 was my last post (sans the v/la ones), so I'm reading from #130 forward.
"confirm vote" is a terrible way to "pressure" anyone as it doesn't do anything. It's a tacit acknowledgement that your vote isn't RVS, but given you've already helped put said person into L-2 range... I'm not seeing how it is supposed to pressure anyone. Terrible, terrible defence. Essentially a /barn on 132.
/barn 139.
144: more Generic BS spin. Colour me surprised.
Really do not like 168. Really really do not like 168.
If Id_Ego flips scum we need to look deeply at Hansanator.
Elaborate, please?
188: Something feels very, very off about this post. I don't like Hawk's reply whatsoever re: the question from Hans. Trying to "test" the NLP doesn't seem like something townies would need to do, but scum would to see how far they can go and manipulate someone.
/barn 190
204: What is the point here, again? This list is irrelevant.
/barn 222
243:
Thor claim: It doen't CLEAR him az town, it juzt makez him slightly more likely to be town. az for the zafe claimz, okay fine, I did a BAD meta on it, zo generic iz ztill pretty bad for puzhing the wagon bazed on NLP. but right now, the only zcum I'm looking at iz Hawk.
Flavour gaming. Stop that noise. To answer the last point in this post, I will be sending you to L-1.
/barn 252. Please for the love of all that is good and Holy get a new keyboard. Or use spellcheck. Something.
257: If one of us is scum, Generic, it's you, not me.
/barn 258.
Unvote, vote Id_ego
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Zinger continues the aggression and then... unvotes? Puts the whole thing down to a misunderstanding.
Hmm, I have my suspicion as to why he decided to step back, but @Zinger what caused you to look at it in that light?
I like guardman's explanation for his pressure on generic over asenion.
Good to see IE getting pressured for his 'vote'.
I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around all the people claiming they were being misrepped. It's quite a while ago, but if any of it's still relevant, can I get clear 'this post is misrepping this post'?
@the policy lynch discussion: Fair warning that I will move to lynch muppets where appropriate.
@Zinger:Why the threat in #98? You've put your previous conversation down to a misunderstanding, is there something else that you had against generic that I'm missing?
wtf is with #120?
No counter claim? Believable?
It's a name claim, why would that be CC'd or unbelievable?
And what does everyone having a PR have to do with it?
The line about getting more conversation flow is weird too, since that was his 3rd post of the game (including rvs).
If I wasn't voting him already, I surely would be at that point.
@hans, you say he leans scum but not enough for a vote. How much of a scum lean does someone need before you'll vote them?
The short answer is that a person would have to lean scum more so than anyone else.
For a more detailed answer, here's my thought process regarding Ego: I was prepared to vote him in response to his bad explanation for his actions, but then Hawk asked zinger that question to test his NLP, and that shifted my suspicion somewhat away from Ego and towards Hawk. When Ego claimed, suspicion was re-sparked because, to me, it seemed like his role was mafia oriented. After he answered some questions and other people said that the role he claimed was too powerful for mafia, I began to doubt my suspicions, but it still didn't negate how scummy he was acting earlier. I'd say that if he continues to act like he was earlier, I would feel pretty confident in placing my vote.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Awesome, a few of you agree with me (or i agree with them, the timing being what it is).
I_E's #133 doesn't sit well with me. The shapeshifter plot device had been mentioned several times in-thread, as well as in the OP. Specifically, it was mentioned frequently after generic's name-claim.
Too me that shows a lack of attention, which conflicts with the implied theme of I_E analyzing what is being said.
I also dislike his flip from 'creating more conversation' to 'shifting the focus of the conversation'.
Yes, I was demoing mtg at PAX Australia. 'twas awesome fun, we got several thousand new players hooked up.
@Hawk in #155: Why were you waiting for people to vote?
Alright, well here i my bid last case.
Don't lynch me tonight? why? well there are 2 scenarios here.
scenario 1: I'm town. I use my ability at night, confirming that I have it. Now what the scum can do about it is either RB, redirect, or NK me, any of these 3 seem fine by me. If we have a volunteer for the RB,it would create WiFoM for the scum, ebcause that could be there NK target, but then that could also be the doctor target. or it could be someone else. if we don't have a volunteer, that's fine too
Scenario B: I'm scum. I use my ability tonight, confirming I have the ability. But what this also means is that the scum will have one less ability to use at night. If I don't use the ability, you lynch me tomorrow. If I do, you can still lynch me tomorrow but atleast this way you know that my ability is used.
So if you don't lynch me, it creates an upside for town either way.
Or you could lynch me today, but if that is your agreement, I say make hawk claim before twilight. This would pevent any accidental day ending earlier than he can claim.
That is all I have.
Other than the reason I hate D1: it's pure conjecture, trying to catch someone in their mistakes, which usually turns into everyone rabbling up about something, someone defending themselves, and then no one caring for any explenation whatsoever. the firt bus usually fails, and the second one, regardless of who it is usually sticks. And with 0 information. That is why I hate D1.
Though, this D1 ha actually been the longest one I've gone before starting to hate it. So, in a wierd way thanks.
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Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
Quick note that generic pushes the I_E wagon to claim.
wth is hawk doing? If the I_E thing doesn't work out, I hope there's a hawk wagon instead.
I really like Asenion on this page, pressing hawk and hitting points I'd've raised.
Big post by I_E.
Don't like the response to cantrip's point #1. Town doesn't need to distance themselves from their actions and the consequences.
Don't like the push for flavour gaming either.
Can we please step away from the nlp?
I_E's claim is interesting. But after a bit of thought, it does little for me. I feel the role leans anti-town and feels like an all downside vigilante to me, since it knocks someone out of the game for a day and we get no information out of its use.
@hawk in #187. Promising a claim in twighlight is an interesting move, colour me intrigued because I can't fathom your motive.
Some of I_E's explanations don't sit well with me, his response to guardman in particular.
He implies that his vote was to draw a claim, and then tries to wifom it away.
Aside from the point that calling people town for no reason is a scum tell as much as calling someone scum for no reason, lamp-shading the use of wifom doesn't negate it's nature.
I_E jumps on the hawk wagon, don't quite know what to make of that.
@hawk in #214, you're the one who knows best when to claim your role. I don't know why you'd want to do it now though.
@theorycrafting talk: Can we please not game the set-up, it doesn't work at this stage of the game, if it works at all.
@emo in #224: I'm not sure if the numbers you give are accurate and I've never seen this type of ability before, but it seems imbalanced to have the need for a super majority when used on town.
I guess I'll do this by reading a page and posting my thoughts. (40ppp)
I've never seen someone catch up using this method, but so far it seems to be quite effective! I'll wait for you to finish before asking questions though.
It's good for me because my phone hates big posts and I have spotty access, so I can give content in little bursts while reading, rather than posting a text wall and going 3+ days without a post.
/barn this. I am totally stealing this method of catch up from now on.
also, where do I modify posts per page options?
User CP > Settings & Options > Edit Options > Thread Display Options > Number of Posts to Show Per Page.
It's a drop-down menu.
Outside of the posts, I don't see much in the way of content from hans. Reading through, there was a lot of fluff, but nothing that stuck with me.
Definitely something I'll ride on come day 2.
And if you are mafia vote remover/stealer whatever it is and you reduce the number of votes the town have available day 2 we have a situation where if we choose wrong toDay and the mafia successfully kill at night the town will be THREE votes down!
/barn
@parinoid: Since you just finished your read, could you give a full t/s list? Your catch up includes many thoughts on the major players thus far, but I think it would be beneficial to include your opinion of all at this particular point.
Alright,
scenario 1: I'm town. I use my ability at night, confirming that I have it. Now what the scum can do about it is either RB, redirect, or NK me, any of these 3 seem fine by me. If we have a volunteer for the RB,it would create WiFoM for the scum, ebcause that could be there NK target, but then that could also be the doctor target. or it could be someone else. if we don't have a volunteer, that's fine too
I had a lot of trouble trying to make sense of this; are you asking someone to claim roleblocker just so that you are not targeted by the mafia?
If I understood this correctly, which I admit was very difficult, I'd be ready to hammer.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
@parinoid: Since you just finished your read, could you give a full t/s list? Your catch up includes many thoughts on the major players thus far, but I think it would be beneficial to include your opinion of all at this particular point.
Cantripmancer - Love this guy. My impression from the read was strong scumhunting and careful analysis. Town. Asenion - I've read some people saying that he acted scummy in the beginning, but I didn't pick up on any of it. I share his view re:the nlp and he's been responding pretty much how I would. Strong town lean. Guardman - A little light on posts, but I've seen his reasoning as coming from a town mindset and I agreed with many of his posts when I read them. Leaning town. Emocakes - How he tackled the beginning of the I_E wagon struck well with me. Leaning town. GiftsTrix - I don't know what to think of this guy. Off the top of my head nothing stood out in my read. No read. iRebel - Was very aggressive when questioning generic. Historically I've had issues judging aggressive players, as abrasive posts ping my scumdar something fierce.
I don't think he's scum, but I have trouble saying he's town.
Not no-read, but not a specific one either. It's a real problem that I need more time to mull over. :/ Generic - Started out very aggressively and drew a lot of attention to himself, but since then I haven't seen anything from him that pings my scumdar. Neutral. Zinger2099 - I don't know how to read Zinger. He's on and off my scumdar on a regular basis. Neutral atm. hansanator - Chronic lack of original content puts up some serious flags for me. Leaning Scum. 7hawk77 - Some of his posts have thrown up serious concern.
I initially had difficulty parsing I_E's recent jump onto the hawk wagon, but am now ignoring it due to the wifom it presents. Leaning Scum.
The biggest problem with my role is that I'm currently not backing anyone up, I have to be targetted by their night ability for it to be activated.
My first idea was to try and come off somewhat scummy but towny enough to not get lynched. I was hoping that I would get myself copped or something.The problem is I'm really not experienced enough to keep this up and would probably get myself lynched by day 2.
I don't think there is any downside to claiming. I'm currently not a threat to the scum because I'm vanilla for now and if I'm getting watched it could be very risky for them to try and nightkill me. They won't really know when I get the power role because they won't know who had targetted me. The upside is that a town member could save the power from going to waste after they die.
Anyways, If they do actually decide to nightkill me, look in to zinger, emo or irebel tomorrow if ego flips scum. We should be able to find where ego agreed with someone else's views to pin another scum. Look in to the initial generic wagon and my wagon.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I can back multiple players but logistically I cannot end up with more than one power. I won't be explaining the role PM in full details now because I want to keep as much information away from the scum team as possible.
The biggest problem with my role is that I'm currently not backing anyone up, I have to be targetted by their night ability for it to be activated.
My first idea was to try and come off somewhat scummy but towny enough to not get lynched. I was hoping that I would get myself copped or something.The problem is I'm really not experienced enough to keep this up and would probably get myself lynched by day 2.
I don't think there is any downside to claiming. I'm currently not a threat to the scum because I'm vanilla for now and if I'm getting watched it could be very risky for them to try and nightkill me. They won't really know when I get the power role because they won't know who had targetted me. The upside is that a town member could save the power from going to waste after they die.
Anyways, If they do actually decide to nightkill me, look in to zinger, emo or irebel tomorrow if ego flips scum. We should be able to find where ego agreed with someone else's views to pin another scum. Look in to the initial generic wagon and my wagon.
The claim is an interesting one, but I do not like this bolded part, I do not.
Ah, misread. When you stated "I'm gonna contradict" I assumed you meant I am going to in the future, as opposed to currently.
@Han: Pretty much.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Yes thank you. I saw that post and noped right past it. I'll read it in a bit when I'm home. I would like to consider my vote on both Id and Hawk. I can't imagine how either of them are town.
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Unvote, Vote: Id_Ego for everything Cantripmancer said. This should put him at L-2 right?
Regarding Hawk; I agree with the couple of things he has recently said about Asension. They ring true to me, which is weird because I also agree with the things Asension has said about Hawk. I am conflicted about both of them right now. Could they be scum busing/distancing each other? Possibly. I am fine with an Id_Ego lynch today, but I feel we should keep a close eye on both of them going forward.
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He is now at L-2 and people who don't vote him to avoid placing him at L-1 is a perfectly fine excuse now. The problem is, you DIDN'T move your vote when he wasn't at L-2, despite the fact that you said you would vote for the strongest wagon among those three players.
Very fishy.
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@emo: yes, I choose a player at night and they don't get a vote.
Firstly, I'm sorry I'm the focus of converation and have alot of questions to answer. So should I not quote anyone anymore?
Again, I did not intend to make him claim you and you keep inisting that I did (your peristent refusal to believe the explenation is baffling). Even if I did intend to make him claim, what good would it do? If I'm scum, putting him at l-2 with complete knowledge that he would claim so early in the game is baffling. then, after i intentionally make an early claim push, I intentionally push away from it claiming he seems more town? In what possible scenario doe thiss ever make sense?
1. Well conzidering no one waz talking about it AT ALL, I believed that people may have mizzed it. alzo, sinze you don't care about my explenationz, why zhould I care about yourz? but alaz, I'll play fair... here are azzenion main 4 pointz.
You only adrzzed the firzt point, fenze zitting. and the 2nd point, arrogance.
You FAILED to adrezz strike 3, and alzo zub point: reacitng to zomeone'z zuggezted prezzure on you.
Alzo, trying to inztegate more out of me by telling me to vote zomeone iz increbily flawed and zcummy. you were baiting a reaction, which iz zcummy. and you imply told me to vote emo, which az I already pointed out waz exteremely flawed logic. zo why wazte time by baiting a rection very poorly? unlezz you wanted to zeem like you are trying to hold off on your vote... which why would you want to do that anywayz?
2. If your zo convinced I'm zcum, why are you hiding behind the zmoke that I won't get lynched? Do you really believe that I won't, and if zo why not? yez, there are more than 1 zcum, but what exactly makez you think they are ztupid enough to zlip zo badly that I will not get lynched?
Admittedly my next reveal for the day will make thiz point moot, but I felt like adrezzing it.
Roleclaiming in twilight iz not zcummy, what iz iz zaying "I'm gonna fullclaim, but wait until twilight guyz" thatz defelcting ANY and all prezzure off of you, zo no wagon will pozzibly get you to L-2 to get you to claim. also, it's not the firzt time you have azked people to wait for explenationz.
Trying to inztigate more convzation izn't zcummy, batiing iz. and badly baiting at that.
You're vote on me haz nothing to with the fact that you are zcum, azide from the fact that you are puzhing for a mizlynch with a promize of fullclaim.
Oh yea, and tunnel vision= BAD for town. unless you have a reason to tunnel, which unless you are a night 0 cop, you don't.
confirm vote
If you really don't think thiz wagon iz going to get off the ground, then go ahead and claim.
@cantrip: the z thing iz an aumzing way a friend zugezzted i get around my s key only working 25% of the time.
Thor claim: It doen't CLEAR him az town, it juzt makez him slightly more likely to be town. az for the zafe claimz, okay fine, I did a BAD meta on it, zo generic iz ztill pretty bad for puzhing the wagon bazed on NLP. but right now, the only zcum I'm looking at iz Hawk.
zafe claimz: The only game where I had "safe" claimz waz zome god or demigod game. I choze a god on the lizt that waz similar in flavor to Hadez. "zafe" claim indeed... but, if it hadn't been for the mazonz, we would have won... /reminzance.
and I undeztand that, but you need to underztand that the "participation" i zaw available waz involving NLP... which I wanted to shift away from.
confrim vote: and zo we are at the point where i azk the queztion, in my mindzet of him only being at L-3 when I "confirm voted," where iz that not okay? I already underztand the not participating part, but why iz the fact that I "purpozefully made him claim" iz ztill a point againzt me?
Paraphrase of flavor: I am a spy I steal secrets.
(and as for the s key not working, I guess it has spontaneously decided to work most of the time now...)
@ cantrip, you are of courze azzuming that we don't have a vig, which would change things greatly. Alzo you are azzuming 2 mizlynches in a row... which I would hope could be prevented by a town of all abilities... and the mod meta thinking of this possibility.
@GT: My opinion of zinger is that he is claim hopping like a mofo. He /barns all of my points, turns around at a point by cantrip that my ability might cuse more harm than good (but honestly, it's the price certain roles play: vig, roleblock). he also retracts his reasons for voting hawk, but still somehow thinks that he and assenion could be scum bussing (which i agree with), but rathe than putting his vote on either of the two he states might be bussing, he puts the vote on someone who's power is too powerful to be scum, but a double edged sword to town (again vig, roleblock, heck even doctor if it blocks vig kill). I honestly had this opion before I came to answering this question (as in, made the oinion today. I was going to keep it secret, but since you asked...) but I think it's a scum team of Zinger, Assenion, and Hawk.
Look at the inteactions of the 3. Assenion busing Hawk, Hawk's refusal to take Assenion's votes with any weight, zinger hops on hawk's bus, BEFORE I get involved, then when I do, swings his vote away from hawk, retract his INITIAL reason for voting hawk, based off what I said, yet still putting mroe wieght behind what I said than his initial barn for hawk. oportunistic, wildly swinging votes. then he puts me at L-2, asking if that puts me at L-2. is it to say he's not sure?
FoS zinger. and I'm for a zinger vote but right now I really don't like hawk, atleast not until he claims and prove that he in't BSing us... again.
Oh yea, and I forgot the part where hawk continued to persue the NLP, even after it had been stated several times that it was null. it just got us back to NLP again...
TLDR: Zinger, Hawk, Assenion for scum team. and if you DR, well then read and find out why... mostly @Hawk, @GT
TLDR2: Cantrip's scenario is a little flawed. see @cantrip for more.
Also, I would like to ask: WITHOUT VOTING. is it the intention of the rest of the nonvoting members to vote me? if so I have one last counterpoint. Also, anyone currently voting, would you move your vote?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
~
Zinger...Hawk...Asenion team. You really like Asenion's points against hawk... Your points against Z don't jiive well with #206 to me... in fact 206 re:Z is pretty terrible.
~
You're insisting that being Thor makes you more likely town if it's true...which is just flat-wrong. That stinks of defensiveness.
~
Do I plan voting you? Yes.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Page 1
RVS, RVS, NLP?
Oh, that's interesting. Zinger gives himself a self imposed posting restriction.
Don't really like it, but whatever.
Ascension votes zinger because of the posting restriction. Fair enough, they can be annoying.
Generic's barn of the sentiment and questioning of the policy is oddly aggressive. Scumslip? Really?
Some pressure to match the aggression, cool.
No. I'm using the Mafia Vote Counter to keep track, and apparently it just shuffles them around I can keep track of order for Day 2 if you like
Also, got that V/LA!
And a Vote Count!
Id_Ego (5) - Generic, Zinger2099, Cantripmancer, Guardman, 7hawk77
Generic (1) - iRebel
Zinger2099 (1) - GiftsTrix
7hawk77 (2) - Asenion, Id_Ego
Not voting - Emocakes, hansanator, parinoid
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
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Wow, that escalates quickly.
Irebel matches aggression with aggression, but cantrip goes with a less abrasive approach and gets an actual conversation out of generic. +town points for cantrip.
/barn asenion in #60. The moment a self imposed restriction negatively impacts the game is the moment the player upholding it should be lynched.
Zinger's nlp why is irrelevant imho.
'confirm vote'
That's a spicy unexplained vote.
And it draws a name claim from generic. Bleh.
I understand generic's indignation at his wagon, it did kind of come out of nowhere.
I am intrigued by zinger's sudden aggression after the wagon hits l-2.
I've never seen someone catch up using this method, but so far it seems to be quite effective! I'll wait for you to finish before asking questions though.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
New player and analysis. I want to read. Right now I would rather lynch Hawk, but I will still lynch Id. And seriously guys, you are blowing me not moving my vote way out of proportion. It's just me being lazy.
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Outdated Mafia Stats
I kept reading the post in my head with like a vampire accent or something.
Regarding Ego, I really don't know. There have been a couple times where I was about to vote him on the basis of multiple contradictions or a role claim that seemed fit for scum, but when questions were asked by myself and others, some of his answers made me feel slightly better about him, which would postpone my suspicions until something else happened that redefined him as scummy.
As of this moment, I think that he is leaning scum, but not so much to warrant my vote. I think that his play overall can be summed up as scummy, but it didn't seem like he was intentionally leaving out any restrictions on his role. The role still just feels like a scum role by nature to me*; how sure are you guys that it couldn't be a scum role as it has been claimed right now? I think someone may have alluded to this earlier, but mayhaps the role's power was already considered and balanced by other roles that would seem overpowered by themselves?
*One time, I was in a game where a guy claimed to be a janitor after being put under pressure. At first, many people thought that the mod made it a town role on purpose to demote role-alignment assumptions, but it turned out that the guy was just inexperienced scum who didn't know that janitors are primarily mafia aligned. Could this scenario be possible in this situation?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
/barn this. I am totally stealing this method of catch up from now on.
also, where do I modify posts per page options?
@hans, you say he leans scum but not enough for a vote. How much of a scum lean does someone need before you'll vote them?
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I have no plans to move my vote from you.
"confirm vote" is a terrible way to "pressure" anyone as it doesn't do anything. It's a tacit acknowledgement that your vote isn't RVS, but given you've already helped put said person into L-2 range... I'm not seeing how it is supposed to pressure anyone. Terrible, terrible defence. Essentially a /barn on 132.
/barn 139.
144: more Generic BS spin. Colour me surprised.
Really do not like 168. Really really do not like 168.
Elaborate, please?
188: Something feels very, very off about this post. I don't like Hawk's reply whatsoever re: the question from Hans. Trying to "test" the NLP doesn't seem like something townies would need to do, but scum would to see how far they can go and manipulate someone.
/barn 190
204: What is the point here, again? This list is irrelevant.
/barn 222
243:
Flavour gaming. Stop that noise. To answer the last point in this post, I will be sending you to L-1.
/barn 252. Please for the love of all that is good and Holy get a new keyboard. Or use spellcheck. Something.
257: If one of us is scum, Generic, it's you, not me.
/barn 258.
Unvote, vote Id_ego
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Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
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Zinger continues the aggression and then... unvotes? Puts the whole thing down to a misunderstanding.
Hmm, I have my suspicion as to why he decided to step back, but @Zinger what caused you to look at it in that light?
I like guardman's explanation for his pressure on generic over asenion.
Good to see IE getting pressured for his 'vote'.
I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around all the people claiming they were being misrepped. It's quite a while ago, but if any of it's still relevant, can I get clear 'this post is misrepping this post'?
@the policy lynch discussion: Fair warning that I will move to lynch muppets where appropriate.
@Zinger:Why the threat in #98? You've put your previous conversation down to a misunderstanding, is there something else that you had against generic that I'm missing?
wtf is with #120?
No counter claim? Believable?
It's a name claim, why would that be CC'd or unbelievable?
And what does everyone having a PR have to do with it?
The line about getting more conversation flow is weird too, since that was his 3rd post of the game (including rvs).
If I wasn't voting him already, I surely would be at that point.
The short answer is that a person would have to lean scum more so than anyone else.
For a more detailed answer, here's my thought process regarding Ego: I was prepared to vote him in response to his bad explanation for his actions, but then Hawk asked zinger that question to test his NLP, and that shifted my suspicion somewhat away from Ego and towards Hawk. When Ego claimed, suspicion was re-sparked because, to me, it seemed like his role was mafia oriented. After he answered some questions and other people said that the role he claimed was too powerful for mafia, I began to doubt my suspicions, but it still didn't negate how scummy he was acting earlier. I'd say that if he continues to act like he was earlier, I would feel pretty confident in placing my vote.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Id_Ego (6) - iRebel, Generic, Zinger2099, Cantripmancer, Guardman, 7hawk77
Zinger2099 (1) - GiftsTrix
7hawk77 (1) - Id_Ego
Not voting - Asenion, Emocakes, hansanator, parinoid
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I lol'd.
Awesome, a few of you agree with me (or i agree with them, the timing being what it is).
I_E's #133 doesn't sit well with me. The shapeshifter plot device had been mentioned several times in-thread, as well as in the OP. Specifically, it was mentioned frequently after generic's name-claim.
Too me that shows a lack of attention, which conflicts with the implied theme of I_E analyzing what is being said.
I also dislike his flip from 'creating more conversation' to 'shifting the focus of the conversation'.
Yes, I was demoing mtg at PAX Australia. 'twas awesome fun, we got several thousand new players hooked up.
@Hawk in #155: Why were you waiting for people to vote?
Don't lynch me tonight? why? well there are 2 scenarios here.
scenario 1: I'm town. I use my ability at night, confirming that I have it. Now what the scum can do about it is either RB, redirect, or NK me, any of these 3 seem fine by me. If we have a volunteer for the RB,it would create WiFoM for the scum, ebcause that could be there NK target, but then that could also be the doctor target. or it could be someone else. if we don't have a volunteer, that's fine too
Scenario B: I'm scum. I use my ability tonight, confirming I have the ability. But what this also means is that the scum will have one less ability to use at night. If I don't use the ability, you lynch me tomorrow. If I do, you can still lynch me tomorrow but atleast this way you know that my ability is used.
So if you don't lynch me, it creates an upside for town either way.
Or you could lynch me today, but if that is your agreement, I say make hawk claim before twilight. This would pevent any accidental day ending earlier than he can claim.
That is all I have.
Other than the reason I hate D1: it's pure conjecture, trying to catch someone in their mistakes, which usually turns into everyone rabbling up about something, someone defending themselves, and then no one caring for any explenation whatsoever. the firt bus usually fails, and the second one, regardless of who it is usually sticks. And with 0 information. That is why I hate D1.
Though, this D1 ha actually been the longest one I've gone before starting to hate it. So, in a wierd way thanks.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
EBWOP: largely unimportant now, but it' not a flip. the converation of NLP was already there, I wanted to create conversation that didn't involve NLP.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
Quick note that generic pushes the I_E wagon to claim.
wth is hawk doing? If the I_E thing doesn't work out, I hope there's a hawk wagon instead.
I really like Asenion on this page, pressing hawk and hitting points I'd've raised.
Big post by I_E.
Don't like the response to cantrip's point #1. Town doesn't need to distance themselves from their actions and the consequences.
Don't like the push for flavour gaming either.
Can we please step away from the nlp?
I_E's claim is interesting. But after a bit of thought, it does little for me. I feel the role leans anti-town and feels like an all downside vigilante to me, since it knocks someone out of the game for a day and we get no information out of its use.
@hawk in #187. Promising a claim in twighlight is an interesting move, colour me intrigued because I can't fathom your motive.
:thumbsup:@guardman in #190
Seriously, stop with the nlp stuff guys.
Some of I_E's explanations don't sit well with me, his response to guardman in particular.
He implies that his vote was to draw a claim, and then tries to wifom it away.
Aside from the point that calling people town for no reason is a scum tell as much as calling someone scum for no reason, lamp-shading the use of wifom doesn't negate it's nature.
I_E jumps on the hawk wagon, don't quite know what to make of that.
@hawk in #214, you're the one who knows best when to claim your role. I don't know why you'd want to do it now though.
@theorycrafting talk: Can we please not game the set-up, it doesn't work at this stage of the game, if it works at all.
@emo in #224: I'm not sure if the numbers you give are accurate and I've never seen this type of ability before, but it seems imbalanced to have the need for a super majority when used on town.
It's good for me because my phone hates big posts and I have spotty access, so I can give content in little bursts while reading, rather than posting a text wall and going 3+ days without a post.
/barn #252.
User CP > Settings & Options > Edit Options > Thread Display Options > Number of Posts to Show Per Page.
It's a drop-down menu.
Outside of the posts, I don't see much in the way of content from hans. Reading through, there was a lot of fluff, but nothing that stuck with me.
Definitely something I'll ride on come day 2.
Consider this my intention to hammer. Anyone got anything to say before the end of the day?
/barn
@parinoid: Since you just finished your read, could you give a full t/s list? Your catch up includes many thoughts on the major players thus far, but I think it would be beneficial to include your opinion of all at this particular point.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
After Ids last post I have no doubt left about his alignment. When parinoid is done discussing I'm ready to end the day.
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I had a lot of trouble trying to make sense of this; are you asking someone to claim roleblocker just so that you are not targeted by the mafia?
If I understood this correctly, which I admit was very difficult, I'd be ready to hammer.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Cantripmancer - Love this guy. My impression from the read was strong scumhunting and careful analysis. Town.
Asenion - I've read some people saying that he acted scummy in the beginning, but I didn't pick up on any of it. I share his view re:the nlp and he's been responding pretty much how I would. Strong town lean.
Guardman - A little light on posts, but I've seen his reasoning as coming from a town mindset and I agreed with many of his posts when I read them. Leaning town.
Emocakes - How he tackled the beginning of the I_E wagon struck well with me. Leaning town.
GiftsTrix - I don't know what to think of this guy. Off the top of my head nothing stood out in my read. No read.
iRebel - Was very aggressive when questioning generic. Historically I've had issues judging aggressive players, as abrasive posts ping my scumdar something fierce.
I don't think he's scum, but I have trouble saying he's town.
Not no-read, but not a specific one either. It's a real problem that I need more time to mull over. :/
Generic - Started out very aggressively and drew a lot of attention to himself, but since then I haven't seen anything from him that pings my scumdar. Neutral.
Zinger2099 - I don't know how to read Zinger. He's on and off my scumdar on a regular basis. Neutral atm.
hansanator - Chronic lack of original content puts up some serious flags for me. Leaning Scum.
7hawk77 - Some of his posts have thrown up serious concern.
I initially had difficulty parsing I_E's recent jump onto the hawk wagon, but am now ignoring it due to the wifom it presents. Leaning Scum.
Vote Id_Ego.
The biggest problem with my role is that I'm currently not backing anyone up, I have to be targetted by their night ability for it to be activated.
My first idea was to try and come off somewhat scummy but towny enough to not get lynched. I was hoping that I would get myself copped or something.The problem is I'm really not experienced enough to keep this up and would probably get myself lynched by day 2.
I don't think there is any downside to claiming. I'm currently not a threat to the scum because I'm vanilla for now and if I'm getting watched it could be very risky for them to try and nightkill me. They won't really know when I get the power role because they won't know who had targetted me. The upside is that a town member could save the power from going to waste after they die.
Anyways, If they do actually decide to nightkill me, look in to zinger, emo or irebel tomorrow if ego flips scum. We should be able to find where ego agreed with someone else's views to pin another scum. Look in to the initial generic wagon and my wagon.
Outdated Mafia Stats
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Second this question.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
Wrong game my friend.
The claim is an interesting one, but I do not like this bolded part, I do not.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Outdated Mafia Stats
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
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