Care to explain your reasoning? I'm just trying to work out the (rather odd) mechanics of this particular game. At this point, I'm not even certain if we're looking at your standard one group of N mafia. With as weird as things are, we might have more than one group.
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To be fair, I was setup gaming poorly. I took a possible conclusion (4 mafia) and ran some scenarios with it and came up with three completely at-ends results (hypothesis is false, mafias are uncoordinated, or L-4 votes all involve a mafia somewhere). It really came to nothing, and ended up being just a waste of time. I'd probably dislike me for that post too.
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Is that all you had said when I was townreading you?
Maybe the vote on MDenham was enough for me to like you.
Or maybe you're just, you know, scum.
My benefit of the doubt on you is getting lower and lower.
Why such a blatant mudsling?
~p
Occam's Razor says that his flimsy excuse for townreading you is because he knows you're town, because the alternative is "Karn is town and playing worse than he has in any game to date by giving reasoning that does not make any sense".
On a setup-gaming note: The only thing I'm thinking on this front is that limited-use roles don't exist because they're more of a headache thanks to the shuffling. I'm probably wrong, though. Any other setup-gaming is null and a waste of words.
@Teia: If you think that Sir Karn and MDenham are both scum, then how come you're following Sir Karn onto the MDenham wagon?
Even if he is scum and busing his buddy, lynching scum is still the name of the game. I don't intend to follow through with a lynch before we have more information, but I figure if he wants to bus the guy, he can bus the guy.
The only people who benefit from a quick lynch are scum. Especially when roles are shuffled. You've either not thought this through or you have thought it through and are scum. With the roles shuffling, it's not like we can narrow down our list of suspects after a mislynch, because anyone we thought was scum could suddenly be town. It's far more important to not screw up the first lynch on Day 1 in this game.
This solidifies my town read on Jay, especially that last sentence. In a normal game, you can afford a day 1 mislynch as long as it provides solid information. In this game, that doesn't necessarily apply. Each day becomes a new day 1, if you look at it a certain way. It's a setup that inherently favours the mafia (since it makes long-term analysis much more difficult), so we really should avoid doing anything to give them further incremental advantage.
On a setup-gaming note: The only thing I'm thinking on this front is that limited-use roles don't exist because they're more of a headache thanks to the shuffling. I'm probably wrong, though. Any other setup-gaming is null and a waste of words.
That is the one piece of setup gaming you think important?
Personally, I think "rushing into decisions is bad because that favours the scum" is far more relevant than speculating as to whether or not we have limited-use roles.
On a setup-gaming note: The only thing I'm thinking on this front is that limited-use roles don't exist because they're more of a headache thanks to the shuffling. I'm probably wrong, though. Any other setup-gaming is null and a waste of words.
That is the one piece of setup gaming you think important?
Personally, I think "rushing into decisions is bad because that favours the scum" is far more relevant than speculating as to whether or not we have limited-use roles.
It's more relevant than the blather Wildfire came up with. Really, the important sentence of what you quoted is the last one.
Also, yes, rushing decisions is a bad idea, but that's not setup-gaming and comparing the two is just :gonk:.
You say that it could be a scum bus, but immediately thereafter mention that there's no information to be gained from flips. Scum bus for town-cred, but there's no cross-Day alignment consistency, so there's no value for scum to bus because they don't need to play that long game.
I don't see any scenario where knowingly misconstruing the gamestate is town. It's a cover to let you get on a wagon alongside a scumread.
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You say that it could be a scum bus, but immediately thereafter mention that there's no information to be gained from flips. Scum bus for town-cred, but there's no cross-Day alignment consistency, so there's no value for scum to bus because they don't need to play that long game.
I don't see any scenario where knowingly misconstruing the gamestate is town. It's a cover to let you get on a wagon alongside a scumread.
Like I said earlier, the incentive isn't there from a factional standpoint, but from a personal standpoint. Bus your buddy, then your odds of rolling scum again are lower, thus your odds of rolling town are higher. This increases one's chances of being on the winning team. The scum faction is favoured in the sense that long-term behavioural analysis is more difficult than normal (but not impossible, as changes in behaviour from day to day could be indicative of alignment changes), but it's also more vulnerable to metagaming in the sense that it's easily treated like a game of hot potato.
And what "wagon" am I even on? I've been sitting on my vote for ages, since before anything we're talking about came up.
You say that it could be a scum bus, but immediately thereafter mention that there's no information to be gained from flips. Scum bus for town-cred, but there's no cross-Day alignment consistency, so there's no value for scum to bus because they don't need to play that long game.
I don't see any scenario where knowingly misconstruing the gamestate is town. It's a cover to let you get on a wagon alongside a scumread.
The value in bussing, for any given player on scum, is that it means they're that much closer to winning the game if/when they get randomed into town.
And it figures that I got 'nathed because I spent an hour trying to figure out what card game this is most like. again. Stupid interest in game theory.
One thing that is giving me pause about this whole alignment switching mechanic is if the scum team know each other right now. If the scum know who each other are, then re-rolling just one of them wouldn't work because then they could just out their former scum buddies and get them lynched. So it must either be that...
a) the scum team does not know who each other are
- or -
b) the entire re-rolling of alignment process is random for everyone. Meaning, a new random scum team every night.
I suppose it could also be possible that the re-rolls are "predetermined" for balance issues, but it still seems weird. The whole problem with the "b" scenario for me is an issue of balance, and we know that this game was reviewed.
Either way, it's bugging me. Because if it is indeed "a", all this talk about bussing just goes out the window.
As for the whole talk about bussing this and bussing that...
If you've ever played scum before, you know it really is never in your best interest to bus right away and (this especially) BUS SO SOON. We're only 9 pages into this, and accusations have been flying left and right that X is bussing Y and A is bussing B. Bussing is a last ditch effort to jettison from a sinking ship. Stock mechanic or no stock mechanic, I highly doubt that this many people are bussing this soon.
Or have none of you read Seppel's rules on how to play as scum?
After being drowned in text for 10 pages i think i am finally sort of caught up. Does any one want to provide cliffs of accusations etc. Usually for the first day i like to not vote we kill someone right away (coming from playing warewolf a lot) but this may be a lot different.
After being drowned in text for 10 pages i think i am finally sort of caught up. Does any one want to provide cliffs of accusations etc. Usually for the first day i like to not vote we kill someone right away (coming from playing warewolf a lot) but this may be a lot different.
>says hes caught up
>provides no observations or reads
>asks for cliffs of what has happened
After being drowned in text for 10 pages i think i am finally sort of caught up. Does any one want to provide cliffs of accusations etc. Usually for the first day i like to not vote we kill someone right away (coming from playing warewolf a lot) but this may be a lot different.
>says hes caught up
>provides no observations or reads
>asks for cliffs of what has happened
True that came off wrong, i guess i was asking for peoples predictions/further discussions.
After being drowned in text for 10 pages i think i am finally sort of caught up. Does any one want to provide cliffs of accusations etc. Usually for the first day i like to not vote we kill someone right away (coming from playing warewolf a lot) but this may be a lot different.
After being drowned in text for 10 pages i think i am finally sort of caught up. Does any one want to provide cliffs of accusations etc. Usually for the first day i like to not vote we kill someone right away (coming from playing warewolf a lot) but this may be a lot different.
>says hes caught up
>provides no observations or reads
>asks for cliffs of what has happened
True that came off wrong, i guess i was asking for peoples predictions/further discussions.
I don't think there are any concrete accusations at the moment. There's a couple of wagons (Kaburi, MDenham, Sir Karn, Teia), but none have more than 2-3 votes.
As far as not voting to kill somebody, that does not seem terribly helpful here. Because the roles will shuffle everyday, we will *never* have more information than we have now. Come day 2, everything that was said day 1 becomes null, and we can't really glean anything from investigations or looking at who was lynched. I'm hoping the town has some pretty decent powers, because otherwise this is pretty one-sided in favor of the scum.
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Come day 2, everything that was said day 1 becomes null, and we can't really glean anything from investigations or looking at who was lynched. I'm hoping the town has some pretty decent powers, because otherwise this is pretty one-sided in favor of the scum.
This isn't entirely true. Most of what was said does become null, but sudden changes in people's habits do not. In future days it will actually be harder to stay consistent than in regular games. Unlike games where everyone is more or less on the same side, it's likely we'll be able to spot people's role switches more easily one way or another when they change daily.
Also, what the heck is with that 'hope the town has some pretty decent powers' comment? That sounds a little like fishing for responses, to me.
Come day 2, everything that was said day 1 becomes null, and we can't really glean anything from investigations or looking at who was lynched. I'm hoping the town has some pretty decent powers, because otherwise this is pretty one-sided in favor of the scum.
This isn't entirely true. Most of what was said does become null, but sudden changes in people's habits do not. In future days it will actually be harder to stay consistent than in regular games. Unlike games where everyone is more or less on the same side, it's likely we'll be able to spot people's role switches more easily one way or another when they change daily.
Also, what the heck is with that 'hope the town has some pretty decent powers' comment? That sounds a little like fishing for responses, to me.
Alignment switching is notoriously difficult to catch though. As is a game where scum don't know who they are (which is my hunch as to how it is here). Look at Voyager for the former and Crosstown 1 for the latter.
Iso is a knowledgable player and I trust him as a reviewer. I highly doubt we are dealing with a totally random reshuffling of roles every night. I'm more inclined to believe that maybe there is one alignment change per night as per in game conditions. A true reshuffle each night would be pure bastardry, and in the sign up thread TK said it was only somewhat bastardic.
Come day 2, everything that was said day 1 becomes null, and we can't really glean anything from investigations or looking at who was lynched. I'm hoping the town has some pretty decent powers, because otherwise this is pretty one-sided in favor of the scum.
This isn't entirely true. Most of what was said does become null, but sudden changes in people's habits do not. In future days it will actually be harder to stay consistent than in regular games. Unlike games where everyone is more or less on the same side, it's likely we'll be able to spot people's role switches more easily one way or another when they change daily.
Also, what the heck is with that 'hope the town has some pretty decent powers' comment? That sounds a little like fishing for responses, to me.
Alignment switching is notoriously difficult to catch though. As is a game where scum don't know who they are (which is my hunch as to how it is here). Look at Voyager for the former and Crosstown 1 for the latter.
Iso is a knowledgable player and I trust him as a reviewer. I highly doubt we are dealing with a totally random reshuffling of roles every night. I'm more inclined to believe that maybe there is one alignment change per night as per in game conditions. A true reshuffle each night would be pure bastardry, and in the sign up thread TK said it was only somewhat bastardic.
My understanding was that it would be complete randomization. I guess the first post is somewhat ambiguous in that regards.
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Also, what the heck is with that 'hope the town has some pretty decent powers' comment? That sounds a little like fishing for responses, to me.
I also thought that was a bit suspicious but not sure if it warrants pointing fingers, though i could be wrong.
I'm fairly certain the rules say every night.
Also, I'm not fishing for responses, more of just idly speculating. For example, if there's a vigilante, it could make a pretty big difference, because then mafia exposing themselves in lynching garners retribution.
Obviously I'm not expecting someone to just claim vig, because then they become a pretty obvious target for night-kill. It's just interesting to think what the day 2 dynamic might be like after things like that come to light in night 1.
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The more communication the better. The more scum have to communicate, the more scum have to lie. It's a disservice to us if you think something is suspicious but don't point it out.
The more communication the better. The more scum have to communicate, the more scum have to lie. It's a disservice to us if you think something is suspicious but don't point it out.
Do you disagree?
I was mostly trying to make a joke. Everything warrants pointing fingers, ergo so does that.
It seems like every time I try to communicate people jump on me because, given the lack of real interaction, all I have available is speculation on the game mechanics.
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The more communication the better. The more scum have to communicate, the more scum have to lie. It's a disservice to us if you think something is suspicious but don't point it out.
Do you disagree?
Sounds like scum talk to me :afoot::afoot::afoot::afoot::afoot:
Sir karn, off the top of your head who is in the scum QT chat with you? Would make things easier if you let us know now.
~ sir Karn's nemesis... G
Man, that is one aggressive tactic. While I have gotten a scummy read off of Karn, do you really think he'll answer this? And if he did, would you believe him?
What would we gain anyhow? We'd still only get to lynch one of them, and we'd be left guessing whether A) he's a townie figuring if he pretends to bus he'll live through the day, B) he's actually a mafia and "bussed" two towns, or C) he actually bussed his teammates.
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Sir karn, our time working together may be limited working together, we don't just have the mafia kill working against us but we could actually end up on that team come twilight...
But I propose we cripple the scum team anyway, whaddaya say?
So far we are confident to have one scum but the longer the day goes on I feel the others are slipping... This mechanic suits town so much better.
That one being MDenham I assume you mean? Is that where your vote is? I don't remember.
Sir karn, they don't understand the little dance we do on day 1 in sounding each other out.
Wildfires response was shocking.
And for those who want to know what the test there was, it was to see if he would focus on the push on him over all else I wrote. But notice how he commented on the post in order of content.
Sir karn, our time working together may be limited working together, we don't just have the mafia kill working against us but we could actually end up on that team come twilight...
But I propose we cripple the scum team anyway, whaddaya say?
So far we are confident to have one scum but the longer the day goes on I feel the others are slipping... This mechanic suits town so much better.
Wildfire, why is the question so unsettling exactly? Overthinking the answer is one thing, but overthinking my analysis of said answer is odd. Do you think I'm scum? What about sir karn?
And while we are at it wildfire, if teia were to die during day phase, what role would you suspect did it (including alignment)?
Bear in mind this is my first forum mafia and I haven't scoured the archives for previous games. I don't know how these things usually go. That just seemed like an awful forward question. I wouldn't call it "unsettling", I was mostly curious as to why bother? What would be gained by his response?
I've gotten a town vibe from you so far. Karn I'm leaning towards scum on.
As for Teia, I'm not sure I really understand your question. Isn't day the lynching phase? There's no particular roles that play in to lynching, and no other way to kill during the day, at least as far as I'm aware.
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@ER: Well we'll agree to disagree on the lack of self awareness, but I understand your interpretation of kaburi's response (again, weak). Thanks!
My town read on Wildfire cratered when he brought up two scum teams as a possibility, but one problem I'm having is that there's too many scummy people in this game.
Between kaburi with his badposting + disappearance
MDenham with his mudsling, "HEY LOOK GUYS I'M SO PARANOID" + total lack of content thus far
Wildfire's self-awareness + multiple scum teams
Arnn's bad vote on the MDenham wagon
Helix's noncommital responses.
Ugh. I feel like I need to do so much work to sort out these but the switching mechanic in this game makes doing so difficult.
Also Generic has Sir Karn as a town read and I guess I can roll with that? I don't like his vagueness on townreading me in two posts but whatever, there's a million other scummy targets, if he's scum he'll say he was scum yesterday, and yeah.
~p
The two scum teams thing was just a thought. This game is bastardly enough that I wouldn't put it past TK. As you said, there's a lot of scum reads here, and a lot of them are at odds with each other (notably to me, MDenham and Sir Karn right out of the gate). Things might make a bit more sense if there were multiple scum teams.
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Also Generic has Sir Karn as a town read and I guess I can roll with that? I don't like his vagueness on townreading me in two posts but whatever, there's a million other scummy targets, if he's scum he'll say he was scum yesterday, and yeah.
~p
Yea, for anyone who didn't already think of this (I just hadn't thought to put it into the thread) - we're definitely claiming what we had the previous Day the following Day - at least alignment, possibly role too, we can debate that Tomorrow.
So you are not aware of such roles that can kill in the day, but are happy to assume two mafia teams in play in a bastard game?
I smell a rat somewhere... Will need to conference with my more level headed head here...
I mean, I'm just going off of the information that's presented to me. My scummy reads so far have given me the inkling that maybe the mafia isn't what we'd normally expect.
I haven't seen any indication that there are day-use powers. But that would make sense for an investigative role at least, since a night-use investigator would provide very little useful information.
If we're assuming that there is a power available to kill outside of lynching and the mafia's night-kill, then I'd have to make the assumption that it does not also belong to the mafia (as that would be just too many advantages), unless it were one-shot (and as someone else pointed out, one-shots are extra confusing with role swaps).
So if Teia were killed during the day, it'd have to be either a Town Vigilante with a day-shot, or some kind of Serial Killer with a day shot. I'm not getting a strong scum read off of her (though I know a few others have), so I'd lean more towards the SK than the Vig. Or at least I'd hope so, a reckless Vig willing to blow their shot on a shallow read might be even more dangerous than an SK.
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Well, seeing as we're in there together, you already know the last one.
Unvote, Vote Sir Karn
But your post after ward is nothing at all to do with it and is implying you think Wildfire is a serial killer without even committing to that...
-
Have you played Mafia before?
Yeah, I've played before. It's been a while though. Last game was Polyopticon, but I had to replace out due to mental reasons. Game before that was Ataghan, and I was pretty much town cleared very early on in the game for a play I made, so I sort of skated through that. I can't think of the last game I played well, so take that for what it's worth. I'm more into the whole hosting / bookkeeping / behind the scenes of mafia more than into playing it. I'm a pretty bad player (I think, personally, at least).
I don't think Wildfire is a Serial Killer. I just think he's confused and I wanted to keep the note there just as a point of reference for myself since it literally is the first reference to a Serial Killer all game. Wildfire has been setup gaming like mad and seems to be fixated and worried about this mysterious second shot for some reason.
My vote on you is basically because I found the joke needlessly forced and without much room for obfuscation. With all this talk about A bussing B (seriously people, if this much bussing was actually going on, this game would implode in a minute. It ismuch easier to not interact with you teammates than it is to feign contempt at one another. If I have to read one more bussing theory I just might Oedipus myself), there's not much to go one but a bunch of bad dialogue about play patterns that I've never remotely even seen in this game before. I'm tempted to simply do some interaction chart to see who is not interacting with who, but I haven't gotten around to it.
Anyway, MDenham promised a claim but has since vanished. I'm looking for the next likely scum, and I believe I've found it in you.
I know you didn't ask Karn, but I joined (even though I play poor) because I'm very close with a couple people in this game and I love bastardry. I'm having fun so far too.
I don't think Wildfire is a Serial Killer. I just think he's confused and I wanted to keep the note there just as a point of reference for myself since it literally is the first reference to a Serial Killer all game. Wildfire has been setup gaming like mad and seems to be fixated and worried about this mysterious second shot for some reason.
I am pretty confused. Specific was the one who brought up the second shot case (specifically, if Teia were killed during the day) and then got all weird when I assumed there wasn't a day shot. It honestly seems like it was a question designed to make me say "Serial Killer" so he could go "Ah ha!" Only apparently doubting the existence of a day shot is also an "Ah ha!"
I'm setup gaming because this setup is straight up weird. I'm trying to figure out exactly (or even roughly) what's actually going on. I don't think my chances of surviving are terribly high.
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I'm undecided on Kaburi. He seemed a bit scummy at first, then a bunch of people jumped on him, and he hasn't really posted since. Could be a sign of guilt? I don't know. Convince me.
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Well, seeing as we're in there together, you already know the last one.
Unvote, Vote Sir Karn
But your post after ward is nothing at all to do with it and is implying you think Wildfire is a serial killer without even committing to that...
-
Have you played Mafia before?
Yeah, I've played before. It's been a while though. Last game was Polyopticon, but I had to replace out due to mental reasons. Game before that was Ataghan, and I was pretty much town cleared very early on in the game for a play I made, so I sort of skated through that. I can't think of the last game I played well, so take that for what it's worth. I'm more into the whole hosting / bookkeeping / behind the scenes of mafia more than into playing it. I'm a pretty bad player (I think, personally, at least).
I don't think Wildfire is a Serial Killer. I just think he's confused and I wanted to keep the note there just as a point of reference for myself since it literally is the first reference to a Serial Killer all game. Wildfire has been setup gaming like mad and seems to be fixated and worried about this mysterious second shot for some reason.
My vote on you is basically because I found the joke needlessly forced and without much room for obfuscation. With all this talk about A bussing B (seriously people, if this much bussing was actually going on, this game would implode in a minute. It ismuch easier to not interact with you teammates than it is to feign contempt at one another. If I have to read one more bussing theory I just might Oedipus myself), there's not much to go one but a bunch of bad dialogue about play patterns that I've never remotely even seen in this game before. I'm tempted to simply do some interaction chart to see who is not interacting with who, but I haven't gotten around to it.
Anyway, MDenham promised a claim but has since vanished. I'm looking for the next likely scum, and I believe I've found it in you.
"I don't think there is bussing going on. I think MDenham is scum. I think Sir Karn, who is pushing a case on MDenham, is also scum."
Anyway, MDenham promised a claim but has since vanished. I'm looking for the next likely scum, and I believe I've found it in you.
So you think MDenham and I are both scum. Or you think MDenham is town BECAUSE he vanished.
Which one is it?
But I already know you have to think it's number two because you don't believe in bussing. But what is the logic there? Why do you drop MDenham when he hasn't even left for 24 hours, call it "vanished", and switch to someone else over a joke.
You're either not making sense or you're entirely inconsistent. Which one is it?
Care to explain your reasoning? I'm just trying to work out the (rather odd) mechanics of this particular game. At this point, I'm not even certain if we're looking at your standard one group of N mafia. With as weird as things are, we might have more than one group.
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I wouldn't call it a scum tell. That's MDenham.
I did it because I was interested in how he would react. However his reaction was not interesting.
That post I quoted was scummy.
Just because he was setup gaming?
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On a setup-gaming note: The only thing I'm thinking on this front is that limited-use roles don't exist because they're more of a headache thanks to the shuffling. I'm probably wrong, though. Any other setup-gaming is null and a waste of words.
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Even if he is scum and busing his buddy, lynching scum is still the name of the game. I don't intend to follow through with a lynch before we have more information, but I figure if he wants to bus the guy, he can bus the guy.
This solidifies my town read on Jay, especially that last sentence. In a normal game, you can afford a day 1 mislynch as long as it provides solid information. In this game, that doesn't necessarily apply. Each day becomes a new day 1, if you look at it a certain way. It's a setup that inherently favours the mafia (since it makes long-term analysis much more difficult), so we really should avoid doing anything to give them further incremental advantage.
+Scum for such awful waffling.
That is the one piece of setup gaming you think important?
Personally, I think "rushing into decisions is bad because that favours the scum" is far more relevant than speculating as to whether or not we have limited-use roles.
Waffling?
I didn't change my position at all.
Also, yes, rushing decisions is a bad idea, but that's not setup-gaming and comparing the two is just :gonk:.
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You say that it could be a scum bus, but immediately thereafter mention that there's no information to be gained from flips. Scum bus for town-cred, but there's no cross-Day alignment consistency, so there's no value for scum to bus because they don't need to play that long game.
I don't see any scenario where knowingly misconstruing the gamestate is town. It's a cover to let you get on a wagon alongside a scumread.
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"I think you're town because of your posts."
"You mean these few posts?"
"Oh, I guess it was your vote, then."
Like I said earlier, the incentive isn't there from a factional standpoint, but from a personal standpoint. Bus your buddy, then your odds of rolling scum again are lower, thus your odds of rolling town are higher. This increases one's chances of being on the winning team. The scum faction is favoured in the sense that long-term behavioural analysis is more difficult than normal (but not impossible, as changes in behaviour from day to day could be indicative of alignment changes), but it's also more vulnerable to metagaming in the sense that it's easily treated like a game of hot potato.
And what "wagon" am I even on? I've been sitting on my vote for ages, since before anything we're talking about came up.
The value in bussing, for any given player on scum, is that it means they're that much closer to winning the game if/when they get randomed into town.
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a) the scum team does not know who each other are
- or -
b) the entire re-rolling of alignment process is random for everyone. Meaning, a new random scum team every night.
I suppose it could also be possible that the re-rolls are "predetermined" for balance issues, but it still seems weird. The whole problem with the "b" scenario for me is an issue of balance, and we know that this game was reviewed.
Either way, it's bugging me. Because if it is indeed "a", all this talk about bussing just goes out the window.
If you've ever played scum before, you know it really is never in your best interest to bus right away and (this especially) BUS SO SOON. We're only 9 pages into this, and accusations have been flying left and right that X is bussing Y and A is bussing B. Bussing is a last ditch effort to jettison from a sinking ship. Stock mechanic or no stock mechanic, I highly doubt that this many people are bussing this soon.
Or have none of you read Seppel's rules on how to play as scum?
>says hes caught up
>provides no observations or reads
>asks for cliffs of what has happened
True that came off wrong, i guess i was asking for peoples predictions/further discussions.
I don't think there are any concrete accusations at the moment. There's a couple of wagons (Kaburi, MDenham, Sir Karn, Teia), but none have more than 2-3 votes.
As far as not voting to kill somebody, that does not seem terribly helpful here. Because the roles will shuffle everyday, we will *never* have more information than we have now. Come day 2, everything that was said day 1 becomes null, and we can't really glean anything from investigations or looking at who was lynched. I'm hoping the town has some pretty decent powers, because otherwise this is pretty one-sided in favor of the scum.
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This isn't entirely true. Most of what was said does become null, but sudden changes in people's habits do not. In future days it will actually be harder to stay consistent than in regular games. Unlike games where everyone is more or less on the same side, it's likely we'll be able to spot people's role switches more easily one way or another when they change daily.
Also, what the heck is with that 'hope the town has some pretty decent powers' comment? That sounds a little like fishing for responses, to me.
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Alignment switching is notoriously difficult to catch though. As is a game where scum don't know who they are (which is my hunch as to how it is here). Look at Voyager for the former and Crosstown 1 for the latter.
Iso is a knowledgable player and I trust him as a reviewer. I highly doubt we are dealing with a totally random reshuffling of roles every night. I'm more inclined to believe that maybe there is one alignment change per night as per in game conditions. A true reshuffle each night would be pure bastardry, and in the sign up thread TK said it was only somewhat bastardic.
My understanding was that it would be complete randomization. I guess the first post is somewhat ambiguous in that regards.
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I also thought that was a bit suspicious but not sure if it warrants pointing fingers, though i could be wrong.
I'm fairly certain the rules say every night.
Also, I'm not fishing for responses, more of just idly speculating. For example, if there's a vigilante, it could make a pretty big difference, because then mafia exposing themselves in lynching garners retribution.
Obviously I'm not expecting someone to just claim vig, because then they become a pretty obvious target for night-kill. It's just interesting to think what the day 2 dynamic might be like after things like that come to light in night 1.
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Everything suspicious warrants pointing fingers.
Watching you...
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The more communication the better. The more scum have to communicate, the more scum have to lie. It's a disservice to us if you think something is suspicious but don't point it out.
Do you disagree?
I was mostly trying to make a joke. Everything warrants pointing fingers, ergo so does that.
It seems like every time I try to communicate people jump on me because, given the lack of real interaction, all I have available is speculation on the game mechanics.
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Sounds like scum talk to me :afoot::afoot::afoot::afoot::afoot:
Man, that is one aggressive tactic. While I have gotten a scummy read off of Karn, do you really think he'll answer this? And if he did, would you believe him?
What would we gain anyhow? We'd still only get to lynch one of them, and we'd be left guessing whether A) he's a townie figuring if he pretends to bus he'll live through the day, B) he's actually a mafia and "bussed" two towns, or C) he actually bussed his teammates.
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I agree.
Well, seeing as we're in there together, you already know the last one.
--
Helix and Wildfire both look scummy.
Unvote, Vote Sir Karn
That one being MDenham I assume you mean? Is that where your vote is? I don't remember.
Bear in mind this is my first forum mafia and I haven't scoured the archives for previous games. I don't know how these things usually go. That just seemed like an awful forward question. I wouldn't call it "unsettling", I was mostly curious as to why bother? What would be gained by his response?
I've gotten a town vibe from you so far. Karn I'm leaning towards scum on.
As for Teia, I'm not sure I really understand your question. Isn't day the lynching phase? There's no particular roles that play in to lynching, and no other way to kill during the day, at least as far as I'm aware.
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The two scum teams thing was just a thought. This game is bastardly enough that I wouldn't put it past TK. As you said, there's a lot of scum reads here, and a lot of them are at odds with each other (notably to me, MDenham and Sir Karn right out of the gate). Things might make a bit more sense if there were multiple scum teams.
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Yea
The switching mechanic is why I said we should just lynch the scummiest player (imo MDenham) since **** is getting mixed up Tomorrow.
Yea, for anyone who didn't already think of this (I just hadn't thought to put it into the thread) - we're definitely claiming what we had the previous Day the following Day - at least alignment, possibly role too, we can debate that Tomorrow.
Sucks awards are already over.
I mean, I'm just going off of the information that's presented to me. My scummy reads so far have given me the inkling that maybe the mafia isn't what we'd normally expect.
I haven't seen any indication that there are day-use powers. But that would make sense for an investigative role at least, since a night-use investigator would provide very little useful information.
If we're assuming that there is a power available to kill outside of lynching and the mafia's night-kill, then I'd have to make the assumption that it does not also belong to the mafia (as that would be just too many advantages), unless it were one-shot (and as someone else pointed out, one-shots are extra confusing with role swaps).
So if Teia were killed during the day, it'd have to be either a Town Vigilante with a day-shot, or some kind of Serial Killer with a day shot. I'm not getting a strong scum read off of her (though I know a few others have), so I'd lean more towards the SK than the Vig. Or at least I'd hope so, a reckless Vig willing to blow their shot on a shallow read might be even more dangerous than an SK.
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So this was a serious vote
But your post after ward is nothing at all to do with it and is implying you think Wildfire is a serial killer without even committing to that...
-
Have you played Mafia before?
Yeah, I've played before. It's been a while though. Last game was Polyopticon, but I had to replace out due to mental reasons. Game before that was Ataghan, and I was pretty much town cleared very early on in the game for a play I made, so I sort of skated through that. I can't think of the last game I played well, so take that for what it's worth. I'm more into the whole hosting / bookkeeping / behind the scenes of mafia more than into playing it. I'm a pretty bad player (I think, personally, at least).
I don't think Wildfire is a Serial Killer. I just think he's confused and I wanted to keep the note there just as a point of reference for myself since it literally is the first reference to a Serial Killer all game. Wildfire has been setup gaming like mad and seems to be fixated and worried about this mysterious second shot for some reason.
My vote on you is basically because I found the joke needlessly forced and without much room for obfuscation. With all this talk about A bussing B (seriously people, if this much bussing was actually going on, this game would implode in a minute. It ismuch easier to not interact with you teammates than it is to feign contempt at one another. If I have to read one more bussing theory I just might Oedipus myself), there's not much to go one but a bunch of bad dialogue about play patterns that I've never remotely even seen in this game before. I'm tempted to simply do some interaction chart to see who is not interacting with who, but I haven't gotten around to it.
Anyway, MDenham promised a claim but has since vanished. I'm looking for the next likely scum, and I believe I've found it in you.
I am pretty confused. Specific was the one who brought up the second shot case (specifically, if Teia were killed during the day) and then got all weird when I assumed there wasn't a day shot. It honestly seems like it was a question designed to make me say "Serial Killer" so he could go "Ah ha!" Only apparently doubting the existence of a day shot is also an "Ah ha!"
I'm setup gaming because this setup is straight up weird. I'm trying to figure out exactly (or even roughly) what's actually going on. I don't think my chances of surviving are terribly high.
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I doubt Helix is though (and kaburi obv).
awwwww shucks :blush:
I'm undecided on Kaburi. He seemed a bit scummy at first, then a bunch of people jumped on him, and he hasn't really posted since. Could be a sign of guilt? I don't know. Convince me.
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"I don't think there is bussing going on. I think MDenham is scum. I think Sir Karn, who is pushing a case on MDenham, is also scum."
:does not compute:
So you think MDenham and I are both scum. Or you think MDenham is town BECAUSE he vanished.
Which one is it?
But I already know you have to think it's number two because you don't believe in bussing. But what is the logic there? Why do you drop MDenham when he hasn't even left for 24 hours, call it "vanished", and switch to someone else over a joke.
You're either not making sense or you're entirely inconsistent. Which one is it?