Just when I didn't think Seppel could be any more obnoxious.
Come on man, just play the game of mafia in a reasonable way that doesn't completely detract from everyone else' ability to enjoy the game.
TN's response doesn't do much for me, but I like my vote on Killjoy better right now. His posts continue to ring hollow to me. For example...
Fulcrum: I feel like he may be scum this game. Which means I'm likely wrong about one of my two scum camps because I'm not seeing him as scum with the other two. It's possible he's scum with one of them, I think though.
So, to recap since I'm tired and not sure what I just typed makes sense: Goblin and Pink have been scummy (neither more than the other right now) and Cyan is likely scum with one of them. Gut call.
Reasons re: Cyan: His 181 seems noncommital. It's basically saying that scarbo was compoundingly scummy, but he doesn't follow up at all. No vote, no anything. It's like he's waiting to see if we take the bait.
Other thoughts: Scarbo prelim seems town to me. Poking people to make them participate, especially this early in the game likely comes from townie mindset.
Now, to bed.
Killjoy spends far more time talking about me in this post than he does whomever he is actually voting for. And he either really misunderstood my post 181 or is just intentionally trying to twist it into something that it is not. The focus of that post is clearly meant to be about tn, which I assume was easy enough to pick up on, given Sir Chris' similar reaction. The statement about scarbo is just that..a statement that he made a bad vote. That doesn't mean that I automatically think that scarbo is scum. I've been clear enough about saying when I think a person is scum, and KJ has played with me before.
Summation: KJ is talking the talk but not walking the walk, and needs more votes.
Unfortunately, this kind of nonsense is completely normal for Seppel, regardless of alignment. Why he gets away with it remains a complete mystery to me.
TN's response doesn't do much for me, but I like my vote on Killjoy better right now. His posts continue to ring hollow to me. For example...
Fulcrum: I feel like he may be scum this game. Which means I'm likely wrong about one of my two scum camps because I'm not seeing him as scum with the other two. It's possible he's scum with one of them, I think though.
So, to recap since I'm tired and not sure what I just typed makes sense: Goblin and Pink have been scummy (neither more than the other right now) and Cyan is likely scum with one of them. Gut call.
Reasons re: Cyan: His 181 seems noncommital. It's basically saying that scarbo was compoundingly scummy, but he doesn't follow up at all. No vote, no anything. It's like he's waiting to see if we take the bait.
Other thoughts: Scarbo prelim seems town to me. Poking people to make them participate, especially this early in the game likely comes from townie mindset.
Now, to bed.
Killjoy spends far more time talking about me in this post than he does whomever he is actually voting for. And he either really misunderstood my post 181 or is just intentionally trying to twist it into something that it is not. The focus of that post is clearly meant to be about tn, which I assume was easy enough to pick up on, given Sir Chris' similar reaction. The statement about scarbo is just that..a statement that he made a bad vote. That doesn't mean that I automatically think that scarbo is scum. I've been clear enough about saying when I think a person is scum, and KJ has played with me before.
Summation: KJ is talking the talk but not walking the walk, and needs more votes.
Ok first off... you're vote isn't on me. Not sure why it's more important that you want people to know how certain you are of a person that you're not voting for.
Second: This entire post is a response to fulcrum's question which was about you. Whereas, this post I'm responding to is more about me than it is the person you're voting for as well. Are you saying that's scummy?
Finally, yes I misread that second part. That statement does apperently say that scarbo's vote is bad but tn's response is also bad. But even if you're not outright calling scar scummy, it does little to disprove my point. It's still a statement that doesn't accomplish anything and seems to be waiting for someone else to have an opinion.
Oh, and I think I played with you in Cyberpunk (I don't remember much about that game) and Archer, where you were scum. So... how does that help me to know your playstyle?
But... lets do this. I'm actually going to be around to see this to the end this time. Unvote, Vote Cyan. He's scum and needs to die something terrible.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I asked for a response because I like people to follow up on their questions. I couldn't know what you were thinking unless you said it. Now you've stated you think what I said makes sense, and I get another dot to connect later on. Scum always mess up, it's just a matter of making them give enough thought for a contradiction to arise. It's funny, I have my eye on you too for much the same reason you have your eye on me. Go figure.
Speaking of questions
##unvote: Goblin
##vote: Fulcrum
Goblin has pretty much stated his issues are RL, and I don't think that's going to change with my vote on him so Fulcrum!
It depends on where it leads. If they just continue to ask questions and nothing comes of it, it is obvious they are just attempting to look busy. It is one of those things that I'd have to see to evaluate. Have someone in mind?
And then you... didn't respond back to this at all! Perhaps it is just my sense of irony, but I did ask you what the point of this question was pages back and you didn't respond. Come out and play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
By the way I do not like Seppel at all because the switch to Juliet is making me gloss over his posts and that's not something I am keen on. I also don't like gimmicks and forced masks, they tend to hide genuine reactions which is how I find scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Unfortunately, this kind of nonsense is completely normal for Seppel, regardless of alignment. Why he gets away with it remains a complete mystery to me.
I thought I was getting away from the lolspam 20 page RVS when I picked up a game outside of MS.
If we have a player that is a known liability to any team, it's best to remove that player now.
Vote: Seppel
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
tn it seems to be a pattern with you that you make arguments against people based off of policy. Is this common for you?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Unfortunately, this kind of nonsense is completely normal for Seppel, regardless of alignment. Why he gets away with it remains a complete mystery to me.
By the way I do not like Seppel at all because the switch to Juliet is making me gloss over his posts and that's not something I am keen on. I also don't like gimmicks and forced masks, they tend to hide genuine reactions which is how I find scum.
I only have one vote! I have noted my displeasure and you are shining a light on it. You do you, I'll do me, and we'll see how our notes stack up later on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
It bothers me because seppel's behavior bothers me from a potential scum slant, while his behavior supposedly bothers you because 'he can be a detriment to either alignment.' Those are... two different thoughts. One of them doesn't involve scum hunting, to me. I know it is early, but your thinking process worries me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
While a scum lynch would be preferable, statistically speaking we are likely to lynch a townie today.
I'm suggesting that we take a different course of action; remove someone who has proven to be negative utility in the past.
Scum will NEVER kill anyone that is a detriment to town unless they have no choice. Quite frankly, I'd be astonished if you survive to day two, Sir Chris.
Anywho, back to my point. My lynch priority day one is as follows:
caught scum > removal of negative utility town (VI, then lurker) > random wagon
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Statistically speaking aren't we more likely to lynch a town every day? If we do not introduce things such as logic and reason early, why bother to introduce them late? I am a strong believer that when you start to settle, even though it may be reasonable in theory, you lose an edge. I personally find scum when I have that edge much better than without it. So while I understand the numbers game, I don't let it daunt me.
Also my mileage as far as survival has varied vastly in two games, I almost survived until end game my first game until cowardly scum struck me down. I will say that I have grown to accept dying early a long, long time ago. It became a sport on my other forum, killing me night one.
I understand your point though, getting back to that as well. I just don't like it. That use of like isn't in the sense of 'town/scum' and more philosophy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
@Killjoy: My point is that you have put far more thought/effort into why I might be scum than why GG or Pink were, and didn't get around to unvoting whichever of those 2 you are voting for and voting me until..now. This shows a huge lack of sincerity on your part. You say that I was trying to pave the way for someone else to vote scarbo without actually committing to a stance against him. This is fascinating, considering that you've been calling me scum since shortly after I stated my suspicion toward YOU(much earlier today), and are only now getting around to voting me. You are literally guilty of what you are accusing me of here. The way that you said my vote was 'hiding' is also dishonest on your part, and looks more like an attempt to cover your own ass than anything else. The first line of the post was critical of you. Once I decided that Pink might be town afterall, I moved onto my next best suspect, which is you.
All in all, everything you do continues to look scummy.
My main suspects right now are, in order: Goblin, tn, pink, fulcrum, killjoy.
Pretty sure Cyan, Scarbo and Seppel are town. I don't see Seppel do this as scum.
Leaning town on dkings, wheat and Hawk as well.
No idea how to read Chris and too early for a Generic read.
Dc3 needs to answer my question.
Critic needs to get involved but seems townie.
Has Hunger posted?
Well, my post on Cyan was largely reduced to "Cyan ignored questions about his vote," and "does he often bus early?" The second point isn't relevant nor is it a reason behind the case, it's just what I think was happening. The first point is a part of the case, but it's not the entirety of case and it's stripping the point down - so I'd really like people to read the full thing and think about it/respond.
I'd like those of you saying that he ignores questions about his reads as either alignment to direct me to an example that you think is comparable to what he did here and to explain why you think so.
Regardless, the behavior was scummy in and of itself and I've also seen him play very similarly as scum. I get the game vibe that there's effort to diffuse my case based on the general reaction to it. Plus, he ignored me but then he went from insulting people for not seeing how obviously scum Pink was to changing his read on her after my case on him, which I think is an intent to show read adaptability, and the post in which he does so, #150, feels like feigned indignance toward Pink while simultaneously changing his stance on her.
@Rhand - I asked you specifically about Pink because your opening seemed unnaturally light - like in #14 and then making a point to lament the end of RVS despite using that read to start a case on Pink. Plus your banter with Generic... your overall early game gave me a saccharine feeling. Plus, voting someone to piss them off transparently isn't something I would normally think that scum would do because it broadcasts attention to ones self and doesn't have a realistic chance of generating a mislynch or momentum - so it seemed like your analysis was surface level and I wanted to hear your thought process on why that vote was scummy. Your response with the "duh" seemed forced and overly simplistic/dismissive. I'm wary.
@fulcrum - I'd like to understand specifically which of my questions you thought had no point and I'd like for you to explain why.
Suspicious of the pressure on GG because it seems like an easy target but his response to me that triggered scrutiny does not seem like something that a new player would say as scum. I can't see a new player admitting to not knowing if another player was scum or not but still voting for them. I think a player like GG would have forced a scum read after that vote on Pink if scum himself.
I think Seppel probably is more likely to use Juliet as town.
Agree with Generic's points re: Pink (not believing that his pressure on her was serious and also how her play recently has been reactionary), and I also think he has a good point about Scarbo's voting not feeling like it has weight to it/conviction behind it (and I also think the "SO GLAD" you asked line felt unnatural).
I don't even know what 'case' you think you made on me, but I assure that my decision to vote someone other than Pink had nothing to do with anyone other than..Pink. Don't flatter yourself buddy. And dking looks like a strong town candidate currently, so, I think you really are just clueless all around. Also,
I'd like those of you saying that he ignores questions about his reads as either alignment to direct me to an example that you think is comparable to what he did here and to explain why you think so.
This is such a meaningless fluff statement. You look great(or that is the idea) because you look like you're trying so hard, but in reality you know that the chances of anything actually doing this is virtually zero. I'm not saying that this makes you scummy, it's just a cheap trick that no one is going to fall for, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it.
It's the first thing that made me wonder if pink is mara... The purple vote on me is further evidence.
And I managed to catch her as scum inside 2 pages the last time... This could break that record if I'm right
Generic - if you think she's concerned about hiding who she is from you, and that's why you think she's scum, why do you think she would vote you in a way that would tip her hand?
You pointed out a logical error in Generic’s arguments, but didn’t purse it.
So if you haven't met, a simple no would suffice. Also generally people that don't know each other aren't ok with pissing people off that they don't know.
So what's your implication from this? It looks like you think she knows Generic - so what do you think that means? It feels like you're piggy-backing off of Generic without committing to a stance.
These questions are all just veiled criticisms of Hawk for not committing. I don’t think that calling someone’s behavior unusual in a manner that invites them to defend themselves qualifies as avoiding commitment.
We we’re out of RVS by that point, so the answer to the first part of the question is again, obvious. The second part is the generic question to ask in that situation, so meh.
Meh, I wanted a longer RVS because I dig RVS tells
Anyways, voting the mod and then the vote with "pissing off Generic" as only rationale makes for a pretty good start. unvote, vote pink
Rhand - Can you explain in more detail why you think that her voting Generic to piss him off is scummy?
Again, there’s an obvious answer (Pink wasn’t showing any towny motivation with their vote). How much “more detail” do you need?
It's all neutral, voice-of-reason questions without any the scumhunting. Then you never actually addressed the responses to your questions (because you didn’t care), you stopped asking questions after I accused you of asking pointless ones, and your cases focused more on telling us that you feel or think a certain way instead of convincing us to lynch your targets. My vote won’t be moving.
Dc3: please don't use oog posts about signatures to get a read on me
I do get where you're coming from re: saccharine. It's a good observation and probably means you're town.
My global mindset is very different of what you're used to because I finally found a job that I love. My bitterness is gone.
Firing questions at many people is dciii's style, and pink happened to be the current discussion
Him noticing me being less harsh than usual early game strongly points to town imo. That kind of tells is not what scum would be aiming at as they're hard to sell to reach mislynches.
lordy this game is moving fast. I need to show up more often because if I see three pages of replies then I don't consider any of the posts thoroughly enough.
I think Sir Chris cares about finding scum so he's probably town.
tn has a Mafiascum mindset so I'm not sure whether he justs look like scum or actually is scum.
I still don't like PinkPuddle but haven't really reconsidered GoblinGrenadier's latest posts so I'll do that soon.
I hope to say more substantial things later today.
Seppel, I will echo everyone else and say it's time to put the toy away. I found it funny and hadn't considered it's allowing you to coast along with nonsense play.
I don't understand how this couldn't have considered this.
Dc3: please don't use oog posts about signatures to get a read on me
Illegitimacy of his methods notwithstanding, what skin is it off of your neck how he arrives at his reads? I mean I get that being a scum-read town isn't good, but you seem worried about his opinion of you.
No, I don't "assume" it's a gambit, but if he is scum, it's a way for him to contribute without contribute, i.e. actively lurk. And frankly there's nothing pro-town about it.
I didn't "leap all over you." That's an exaggeration. Or what you would call a "misrep."
I'm not suspicious of people who don't assume Seppel's shenanigans are scummy. I called out Rhand for what I saw to be contradictory thoughts and you for not considering something I thought anyone who doesn't know Seppel's alignment should have considered.
Because I thought he would use it a couple of times and then come back to reality. And then it made me laugh. I like to be entertained. But I realised that this game is t just about me (I checked the rules and everything, no mention of the need to entertain generic).
And besides... It's seppel. Seppel is deliberately obtuse and uninterested in latches of every game I've played with him. And when he is interested he's tunnelling. So for me I would scum read him just because that play is unhelpful, yet it rarely turns out to be the case.
Do you assume he's gambiting then?
This is a great summary of Seppel. And honestly, he has been playing and doing things like this for too long for the playerbase to just start policy lynching him over it.
I would like for people to look over Killjoy's thoughts and provide some feedback. I feel like this is a good lead for us to be pursuing right now.
It's not pro town Scarbo, you are correct. But after seeing the backlash I assumed my thought process of just letting seppel be seppel for a bit while I look at the ones who jumped out to me was the wrong thing to do. He does need the pressure, he does need to put the toy away.
The reason I asked about your assumptions is you leapt all over me for not condemning him instantly, and you are still on Rhand over it. The danger with your line of thought is you are making assumptions off assumptions.
Yes, you don't think seppel is necessarily scum, but you are suspicious of those who don't leapt to that conclusion.
Who is your top town read Scarbo? If you have found time to read the game in more detail that is.
This sounds a lot like "Oh man, people are making a point of this. I bet if I agree I'll look town for it."
Scum points for Generic, and town points for Seppel if Generic does turn out to be scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Also what really bothers me is the phrasing. "I assumed my thought process ... was the wrong thing to do." How weird is that phrasing? Like why not "I realized I needed to pressure" it's "I assumed" about your own thinking. Like... You shouldn't be able to assume about your actions in a game of mafia. You can have your mind changed. You can... realize you are in error. But this really sounds like a distancing from your own thinking process that I just find unnatural.
I hate this post. I think this is... amazingly scummy.
In fact, even though fulcrum hasn't gotten back to me yet (I see you, fulcrum) I am voting you for this.
##unvote: fulcrum
##vote: Generic
That is not a town perspective. It's just not. You reacted to other people, and then supposedly make an 'assumption' about your own thinking process. That makes no sense if you aren't trying to just say random things while hiding your true motives.
Explain.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
tn has a Mafiascum mindset so I'm not sure whether he justs look like scum or actually is scum.
What does this mean?
It means that tn is of the Mafiascum mindset that 1st day lynch is a crapshoot. Therefore it's acceptable to lynch Seppel. It seems scummy to me in a strictly MTGS meta, but I'm not sure whether it's town motivation or scum motivation in reality since that's not the meta tn is from.
I didn't "leap all over you." That's an exaggeration. Or what you would call a "misrep."
I'm not suspicious of people who don't assume Seppel's shenanigans are scummy. I called out Rhand for what I saw to be contradictory thoughts and you for not considering something I thought anyone who doesn't know Seppel's alignment should have considered.
Can you explain why you have townreads on tn and GG?
He probably assumed I would try to fade into the background and avoid notice and was pleasantly surprised when I didn't do so. Then again, he could be trying to buddy me by explicitly townreading me.
@Wheat: Lynching scum day one is a fine objective, but it isn't one we're going to have a great chance at unless someone slips pretty hard.
@All: What does it matter if Pink_Puddle is this mara person, other than achieving some sort of meta (that she can twist as she wants since she's clearly self-aware of her own meta)
Non-Game:
What is this bot talk about, and is it relevant to the game?
What is the point of the clans I see linked in some of your signatures?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Stop hiding behind Juliet, Seppel.
Seppel actually confirmed me. He has proven that hiding behind Juliet is playing badly. I want juliet she's smart.
This is not acceptable.
Unvote
Vote: Seppel
Consider my vote on tn5421 as well.
What are your top 2 town reads, preferably with reasons.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Come on man, just play the game of mafia in a reasonable way that doesn't completely detract from everyone else' ability to enjoy the game.
TN's response doesn't do much for me, but I like my vote on Killjoy better right now. His posts continue to ring hollow to me. For example...
Killjoy spends far more time talking about me in this post than he does whomever he is actually voting for. And he either really misunderstood my post 181 or is just intentionally trying to twist it into something that it is not. The focus of that post is clearly meant to be about tn, which I assume was easy enough to pick up on, given Sir Chris' similar reaction. The statement about scarbo is just that..a statement that he made a bad vote. That doesn't mean that I automatically think that scarbo is scum. I've been clear enough about saying when I think a person is scum, and KJ has played with me before.
Summation: KJ is talking the talk but not walking the walk, and needs more votes.
Second: This entire post is a response to fulcrum's question which was about you. Whereas, this post I'm responding to is more about me than it is the person you're voting for as well. Are you saying that's scummy?
Finally, yes I misread that second part. That statement does apperently say that scarbo's vote is bad but tn's response is also bad. But even if you're not outright calling scar scummy, it does little to disprove my point. It's still a statement that doesn't accomplish anything and seems to be waiting for someone else to have an opinion.
Oh, and I think I played with you in Cyberpunk (I don't remember much about that game) and Archer, where you were scum. So... how does that help me to know your playstyle?
But... lets do this. I'm actually going to be around to see this to the end this time. Unvote, Vote Cyan. He's scum and needs to die something terrible.
Like Posting content or style or tone? Quote something that made you believe they are town with a brief interpretation.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Well built case.
Cyan is town please retract my previous claim.
I asked for a response because I like people to follow up on their questions. I couldn't know what you were thinking unless you said it. Now you've stated you think what I said makes sense, and I get another dot to connect later on. Scum always mess up, it's just a matter of making them give enough thought for a contradiction to arise. It's funny, I have my eye on you too for much the same reason you have your eye on me. Go figure.
Speaking of questions
##unvote: Goblin
##vote: Fulcrum
Goblin has pretty much stated his issues are RL, and I don't think that's going to change with my vote on him so Fulcrum!
And then you... didn't respond back to this at all! Perhaps it is just my sense of irony, but I did ask you what the point of this question was pages back and you didn't respond. Come out and play.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I thought I was getting away from the lolspam 20 page RVS when I picked up a game outside of MS.
If we have a player that is a known liability to any team, it's best to remove that player now.
Vote: Seppel
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Yeah so like. Don't let him do it.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
It is during early day one.
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I'm suggesting that we take a different course of action; remove someone who has proven to be negative utility in the past.
Scum will NEVER kill anyone that is a detriment to town unless they have no choice. Quite frankly, I'd be astonished if you survive to day two, Sir Chris.
Anywho, back to my point. My lynch priority day one is as follows:
caught scum > removal of negative utility town (VI, then lurker) > random wagon
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
Also my mileage as far as survival has varied vastly in two games, I almost survived until end game my first game until cowardly scum struck me down. I will say that I have grown to accept dying early a long, long time ago. It became a sport on my other forum, killing me night one.
I understand your point though, getting back to that as well. I just don't like it. That use of like isn't in the sense of 'town/scum' and more philosophy.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
All in all, everything you do continues to look scummy.
Pretty sure Cyan, Scarbo and Seppel are town. I don't see Seppel do this as scum.
Leaning town on dkings, wheat and Hawk as well.
No idea how to read Chris and too early for a Generic read.
Dc3 needs to answer my question.
Critic needs to get involved but seems townie.
Has Hunger posted?
I'd like those of you saying that he ignores questions about his reads as either alignment to direct me to an example that you think is comparable to what he did here and to explain why you think so.
Regardless, the behavior was scummy in and of itself and I've also seen him play very similarly as scum. I get the game vibe that there's effort to diffuse my case based on the general reaction to it. Plus, he ignored me but then he went from insulting people for not seeing how obviously scum Pink was to changing his read on her after my case on him, which I think is an intent to show read adaptability, and the post in which he does so, #150, feels like feigned indignance toward Pink while simultaneously changing his stance on her.
I really like this read, guys.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Outstanding stuff:
@Rhand - I asked you specifically about Pink because your opening seemed unnaturally light - like in #14 and then making a point to lament the end of RVS despite using that read to start a case on Pink. Plus your banter with Generic... your overall early game gave me a saccharine feeling. Plus, voting someone to piss them off transparently isn't something I would normally think that scum would do because it broadcasts attention to ones self and doesn't have a realistic chance of generating a mislynch or momentum - so it seemed like your analysis was surface level and I wanted to hear your thought process on why that vote was scummy. Your response with the "duh" seemed forced and overly simplistic/dismissive. I'm wary.
@fulcrum - I'd like to understand specifically which of my questions you thought had no point and I'd like for you to explain why.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suspicious of the pressure on GG because it seems like an easy target but his response to me that triggered scrutiny does not seem like something that a new player would say as scum. I can't see a new player admitting to not knowing if another player was scum or not but still voting for them. I think a player like GG would have forced a scum read after that vote on Pink if scum himself.
I think Seppel probably is more likely to use Juliet as town.
Agree with Generic's points re: Pink (not believing that his pressure on her was serious and also how her play recently has been reactionary), and I also think he has a good point about Scarbo's voting not feeling like it has weight to it/conviction behind it (and I also think the "SO GLAD" you asked line felt unnatural).
Starting to worry about DK.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
This is such a meaningless fluff statement. You look great(or that is the idea) because you look like you're trying so hard, but in reality you know that the chances of anything actually doing this is virtually zero. I'm not saying that this makes you scummy, it's just a cheap trick that no one is going to fall for, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it.
You pointed out a logical error in Generic’s arguments, but didn’t purse it.
Hawk wanted to learn something about Pink. Obvious answer is obvious.
These questions are all just veiled criticisms of Hawk for not committing. I don’t think that calling someone’s behavior unusual in a manner that invites them to defend themselves qualifies as avoiding commitment.
We we’re out of RVS by that point, so the answer to the first part of the question is again, obvious. The second part is the generic question to ask in that situation, so meh.
Again, there’s an obvious answer (Pink wasn’t showing any towny motivation with their vote). How much “more detail” do you need?
It's all neutral, voice-of-reason questions without any the scumhunting. Then you never actually addressed the responses to your questions (because you didn’t care), you stopped asking questions after I accused you of asking pointless ones, and your cases focused more on telling us that you feel or think a certain way instead of convincing us to lynch your targets. My vote won’t be moving.
I do get where you're coming from re: saccharine. It's a good observation and probably means you're town.
My global mindset is very different of what you're used to because I finally found a job that I love. My bitterness is gone.
I think he did have a good reason.
He didn't ask you specifically about Pink. He asked everyone and their brother about Pink.
Him noticing me being less harsh than usual early game strongly points to town imo. That kind of tells is not what scum would be aiming at as they're hard to sell to reach mislynches.
How many anti-town shoukd a 17-man have?
I think Sir Chris cares about finding scum so he's probably town.
tn has a Mafiascum mindset so I'm not sure whether he justs look like scum or actually is scum.
I still don't like PinkPuddle but haven't really reconsidered GoblinGrenadier's latest posts so I'll do that soon.
I hope to say more substantial things later today.
I don't understand how this couldn't have considered this.
My League game was 5/16 anti-town. I'd be surprised if we weren't looking at 6 here.
What does this mean?
Illegitimacy of his methods notwithstanding, what skin is it off of your neck how he arrives at his reads? I mean I get that being a scum-read town isn't good, but you seem worried about his opinion of you.
Then why are you OK with Seppel using Juliet today?
Probably tn5421. Or GG.
I didn't "leap all over you." That's an exaggeration. Or what you would call a "misrep."
I'm not suspicious of people who don't assume Seppel's shenanigans are scummy. I called out Rhand for what I saw to be contradictory thoughts and you for not considering something I thought anyone who doesn't know Seppel's alignment should have considered.
I feel more confident in my vote like a politician throwing around earmarks.
This is a great summary of Seppel. And honestly, he has been playing and doing things like this for too long for the playerbase to just start policy lynching him over it.
I would like for people to look over Killjoy's thoughts and provide some feedback. I feel like this is a good lead for us to be pursuing right now.
This sounds a lot like "Oh man, people are making a point of this. I bet if I agree I'll look town for it."
Scum points for Generic, and town points for Seppel if Generic does turn out to be scum.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I hate this post. I think this is... amazingly scummy.
In fact, even though fulcrum hasn't gotten back to me yet (I see you, fulcrum) I am voting you for this.
##unvote: fulcrum
##vote: Generic
That is not a town perspective. It's just not. You reacted to other people, and then supposedly make an 'assumption' about your own thinking process. That makes no sense if you aren't trying to just say random things while hiding your true motives.
Explain.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Pink_Puddle (3)- Generic, GoblinGrenadier, 7hawk77
GoblinGrenadier (3)- Rhand, Wheat_Grinder, dkingsland967
Cyan (2)- DCIII, Killjoy
DCIII (2)- fulcrum, Seppel
Seppel (3)- Pink_Puddle, scarbo, tn5421
Generic (1)- Sir Chris
Killjoy (1)- Cyan
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch!
-----
Reminder: Please put votes/unvotes on a line separate from the rest of your text so it doesn't get mixed in!
Edited
Unvote, Vote Killjoy just so you don't have to go look for it.
1. Look at killjoy because I remember thinking he was town and so I think that makes me a good person to oppose Cyan on it.
2. Make a case on someone I just realized is scum.
It means that tn is of the Mafiascum mindset that 1st day lynch is a crapshoot. Therefore it's acceptable to lynch Seppel. It seems scummy to me in a strictly MTGS meta, but I'm not sure whether it's town motivation or scum motivation in reality since that's not the meta tn is from.
Can you explain why you have townreads on tn and GG?
@Wheat: Lynching scum day one is a fine objective, but it isn't one we're going to have a great chance at unless someone slips pretty hard.
@All: What does it matter if Pink_Puddle is this mara person, other than achieving some sort of meta (that she can twist as she wants since she's clearly self-aware of her own meta)
Non-Game:
What is this bot talk about, and is it relevant to the game?
What is the point of the clans I see linked in some of your signatures?
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
Let's start with
Vote: GoblinGrenadier
What are your top 3 scumreads please Goblin?