@Killjoy: My point is that you have put far more thought/effort into why I might be scum than why GG or Pink were, and didn't get around to unvoting whichever of those 2 you are voting for and voting me until..now. This shows a huge lack of sincerity on your part.
How does it show lack of sincerity? My opinion of Pink and GG were completely sincere, albiet my suspicion of them was based on more... superficial reasons than my thoughts on you. (Pink and GG did/said something specific that I associate with being more likely scum than not, but with you it's a little more deep.) So, sure, I suppose I did put more thought/effort into you, because the scummy actions/mindset I've noted from you requires more thought to dissect.
You say that I was trying to pave the way for someone else to vote scarbo without actually committing to a stance against him. This is fascinating, considering that you've been calling me scum since shortly after I stated my suspicion toward YOU(much earlier today), and are only now getting around to voting me. You are literally guilty of what you are accusing me of here.
I said that I thought that you were fencesitting so you could wait till others helped validate the wagon a little bit. Just so we're clear on that.
Now, you say that I'm doing the same thing. I'm not. No, I didn't vote you right away, but I don't vote purely on gut anyway. I stated in my post that my suspicion of you in that post was mostly gut, then the way you assumed I was trying to twist your words helped upgrade my suspicion toward you. I caught you in Archer but I wasn't around then. I plan to not make that mistake again.
The way that you said my vote was 'hiding' is also dishonest on your part, and looks more like an attempt to cover your own ass than anything else. The first line of the post was critical of you. Once I decided that Pink might be town afterall, I moved onto my next best suspect, which is you.
All in all, everything you do continues to look scummy.
Why is it dishonest? I don't understand your point here.
@All: What does it matter if Pink_Puddle is this mara person, other than achieving some sort of meta (that she can twist as she wants since she's clearly self-aware of her own meta)
It matters in that it will help to read Generic, I think. I don't know Mara so her identity doesn't matter to me in that way, but since Generic reacted pretty strongly it might help figure him out somewhere down the line.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't even know what 'case' you think you made on me, but I assure that my decision to vote someone other than Pink had nothing to do with anyone other than..Pink. Don't flatter yourself buddy. And dking looks like a strong town candidate currently, so, I think you really are just clueless all around. Also,
I'd like those of you saying that he ignores questions about his reads as either alignment to direct me to an example that you think is comparable to what he did here and to explain why you think so.
This is such a meaningless fluff statement. You look great(or that is the idea) because you look like you're trying so hard, but in reality you know that the chances of anything actually doing this is virtually zero. I'm not saying that this makes you scummy, it's just a cheap trick that no one is going to fall for, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it.
The first part of this is just an attempt to hand wave me/discredit me.
The second part is bad for three reasons - one, no, if people are dismissing my point on you because they think you have past precedent, I want to see what that precedent is. So I don't expect that the chance of people doing this is zero and if it doesn't happen than I'm going to wonder why those people were dismissing my case. Two, it feels very much like you're trying to intercept this from happening. But three, the bolded above. All of the second part of your post carries suspicion with it. You're accusing me of attempting to appear to look great (why would town do that?), you're saying that I'm using a cheap trick first of all, what's the trick? Asking people to justify their meta statements? But a cheap trick implies that I'm being disingenuous and trying to get people to fall for something. Both of those accusations are things that I would have no reason to do as town. They're loaded charges against me - and yet you clarify in your post that you're not saying this makes my scummy? Your language is suspicious of me, but if that suspicion was genuine, you wouldn't feel the need to add that clarification in there. Why not wait to see my reaction to thinking you suspect me so that you can assess it? It's in there because you're trying to diffuse the situation, there's no other purpose for it and it contradicts the mindset of finding the rest of what I'm doing suspicious.
You pointed out a logical error in Generic’s arguments, but didn’t purse it.
I think you just messed up, fulcrum.
When you first voted me for my post, I wouldn't have had time to follow up on my question to Generic - but you just admitted that there was a logical error in Generic's post - but your initial reason for voting me is that I was just asking questions for the sake of asking questions. If you think that Generic made a logical error and I questioned him about it, how is that asking a question for the sake of asking a question? Wouldn't that have been a good question to ask? There's a contradiction there and I think you're probably scum.
To address your point - I didn't follow up on that from Generic because his #62 seemed like a very good point on Pink and the way that she acted like she didn't think he was serious was unbelievable and made me think that she was actually worried about the early pressure on her and her reactions to Generic. And that changed my opinion on her and the wagon and made me think Generic less suspicious because of the way that he went after her didn't make sense from a scum on scum interaction standpoint.
Hawk wanted to learn something about Pink. Obvious answer is obvious.
And I wanted to learn something about all of these people I was asking questions to. Obvious answer is obvious. But not really obvious because you wouldn't be pushing me about these questions if you thought there was a point to them, right? I questioned Hawk because I didn't think that Generic's reasoning was sound on Pink and then Hawks questions seemed to be trying to pile on/prove that she knew him but didn't seem to have a point other than that. I also didn't get the point of asking her her motive for playing as a gimmick on this site. People play as gimmicks so that people don't know who they are. They make that decision prior to being sent a role PM. I thought that was a pointless question designed to look scum-hunty by building off of what Generic was doing so I asked him about it - and I even explained what my point was shortly after.
These questions are all just veiled criticisms of Hawk for not committing. I don’t think that calling someone’s behavior unusual in a manner that invites them to defend themselves qualifies as avoiding commitment.
There was nothing veiled about the criticism, and I thought that he was focused on proving that she knew him as the main goal of his questioning without taking a line either way. His follow up vote on her, and some of his later questions (like trying to figure out what GG thinks he'd learn from lynching Pink, for example) seemed to be much more pointed and to be coming from an inquisitive mindset, so I no longer suspected him at that point.
We we’re out of RVS by that point, so the answer to the first part of the question is again, obvious. The second part is the generic question to ask in that situation, so meh.
Wrong. He didn't actually know whether he thought she was scum or not and I asked it because he didn't give any reason for voting her when he did... and his response to me triggered the post that many others have found scummy (and I disagree with). The point of the question was exactly that, because he didn't say he thought she was scum when voting for her so I wanted to hear his thought process behind why he was. I don't think there's any way you can honestly believe this was a pointless question.
Again, there’s an obvious answer (Pink wasn’t showing any towny motivation with their vote). How much “more detail” do you need?
It's all neutral, voice-of-reason questions without any the scumhunting. Then you never actually addressed the responses to your questions (because you didn’t care), you stopped asking questions after I accused you of asking pointless ones, and your cases focused more on telling us that you feel or think a certain way instead of convincing us to lynch your targets. My vote won’t be moving.
I already went over this one with Rhand but it's not an obvious answer. It appears like an obvious answer because voting someone to piss them off isn't a good reason to vote for someone - but it's not necessarily scum motivated in and of itself and is an easy reason to use to vote that player (which is why I was questioning the wagon). There's context needed to draw that conclusion which is what I was asking for because, at that time, I thought it much less likely that she'd behave in that way as scum because there's no way that vote would generate a mislynch for the reason given and because all it does is draw focus to herself.
The above analysis from you isn't honest. I'll also vote for fulcrum Today.
Firing questions at many people is dciii's style, and pink happened to be the current discussion
Him noticing me being less harsh than usual early game strongly points to town imo. That kind of tells is not what scum would be aiming at as they're hard to sell to reach mislynches.
Rhand, you're saying that firing many questions at people is my style, but earlier you also asked me if I was asking questions for the sake of asking questions. Why ask that question then if you think that this is normally my style? What changed with regard to your opinion of my questions in my first post? It feels to me like you're trying to cut fulcrum off before she digs too deep.
Cyan/Pink/fulcrum/Rhand feels very good as a suspect list to me.
I'm not doing the quote wall thing. Your reasons ring hollow, you deliberately mistook my view of you now for my view of you in the past, your reason for scumreading me is contrived, and you're still focused on telling people what you believe instead of trying to convince them of your scumreads.
Fulcrum do you often ignore people who have voted you and whom you have asked questions of or is this a new experience for you?
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I asked for a response because I like people to follow up on their questions. I couldn't know what you were thinking unless you said it. Now you've stated you think what I said makes sense, and I get another dot to connect later on. Scum always mess up, it's just a matter of making them give enough thought for a contradiction to arise. It's funny, I have my eye on you too for much the same reason you have your eye on me. Go figure.
Speaking of questions
##unvote: Goblin
##vote: Fulcrum
Goblin has pretty much stated his issues are RL, and I don't think that's going to change with my vote on him so Fulcrum!
It depends on where it leads. If they just continue to ask questions and nothing comes of it, it is obvious they are just attempting to look busy. It is one of those things that I'd have to see to evaluate. Have someone in mind?
And then you... didn't respond back to this at all! Perhaps it is just my sense of irony, but I did ask you what the point of this question was pages back and you didn't respond. Come out and play.
Please respond.
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I'm not doing the quote wall thing. Your reasons ring hollow, you deliberately mistook my view of you now for my view of you in the past, your reason for scumreading me is contrived, and you're still focused on telling people what you believe instead of trying to convince them of your scumreads.
But you've taken great pains to excuse yourself from answering each individual point. Why would town need to do such a thing?
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[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Fulcrum: what stopped you from giving me that simple explanation the first two times I asked for it?
@Generic
I have decided nothing. I have my current thoughts, but I am always willing to change my mind if things change. I try my best not to tunnel people, it has ended poorly for me more often than not.
Your explanation makes sense, really. You say it the way you do now and I go 'oh, sure, that's what he meant' but something still bothers me about the way you originally phrased that. It felt weird to me, not genuine.
What does everyone else think of Generic's post which I voted him for? Am I just seeing things here?
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Correct - I've given my opinion on GG - I don't think he's experienced at all and I don't see a player like him as scum openly admitting to voting for someone they don't think is scum. He strikes me just as really green, reminds me of 6Cs in BioShock.
I'm not doing the quote wall thing. Your reasons ring hollow, you deliberately mistook my view of you now for my view of you in the past, your reason for scumreading me is contrived, and you're still focused on telling people what you believe instead of trying to convince them of your scumreads.
What. How am I not trying to convince people of my scum reads?
Also, no - I didn't mistake anything. You voted for me as soon as I asked those questions and your reasoning was that the questions were pointless. You both didn't wait to see where I was going with them and you recently pointed out that Generic had faulty logic then. So if he had faulty logic then, asking him about it then shouldn't have seemed pointless to you then. It shows that your initial reason for voting me was dishonest.
To elaborate: if the questions you fire everywhere are pointless, you're in your scum meta. When they have goals, it's your town meta.
Rhand - I've only been scum twice and neither of those games were characterized by firing pointless questions everywhere. I think you're making this up.
You don't seem to understand what I am trying to say DCiii. I thought what you did was scummy because town!dciii has reasons for the many questions he asks. Your questions turned out to have a point, so I think I see a town!dciii.
I would expect you to have no good reasoning for the question that seemed pointless if you were scum.
The amount of questions asked fit both your meta's.
@Wheat: Lynching scum day one is a fine objective, but it isn't one we're going to have a great chance at unless someone slips pretty hard.
The Day 1 lynch on MTGS is scum more often than not, iirc. That's why not expecting to lynch scum Day 1 seems so scummy.
---
I forgot to look at dudes last night. I'll rectify that now. I'm going to look at: Killjoy, Generic (the player who I realized is scum), and perhaps one other who makes me worry.
24 is fine. 41 I agree with. 157 is cyanoia which could go either way. I don't like 187. 206 is okay, 207 as well, even if I disagree with the former.
I think KJ is fairly obvious scum when he's scum and I'm not seeing obvious scum. He's not being terribly townie on another look through but if he's scum I think it'll be more obvious later.
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Generic:
I'm pretty sure I'm right about this now that I've looked it over.
A few weeks ago (before the start of this game) I was talking with Iso about various players and how we read them, and Iso mentioned a way of reading Generic I didn't know about. Generic's displaying his scum mindset here, according to Iso's characterization: town!Generic gets in people's faces (example: in the last league game he wanted to 1v1 about 4 different players), while scum!Generic avoids that level of conflict.
However, I need to prove to myself that Iso's characterization is actually correct before I put down a vote. I need to look at a few Generic games.
@Generic: What are your last two town games and last two scum games?
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GoblinGrenadier:
I forgot about this when I made my earlier post, but I wanted to re-examine GG.
32 into 37 is still awful. Votes for Pink but then later says he's not sure if Pink is scum but that she should be "the sacrifice" which is really scummy phrasing.
74 is also crappy in that he's seeing nothing anything scummy in 74 posts. His mindset is consistent so far, though.
162 also explains the former opinions. 165 refusing to say more due to being busy is sorta eh due to the phrasing but I can overlook that.
What I can't overlook is the fact that his last post was 3 days ago.
Conclusion: He's scummy but consistent which implies that he's not actually scum.
@Mod: Prod GoblinGrenadier please
Unvote
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CitricBase:
This is another one I wanted to do but forgot I wanted to do. I know it'll be short so I might as well.
65: Fluff. 77: Fluff. 163: He finally has an opinion, but nothing to back it up. He also says he's be NK'd if he actually tried as a joke, but that actually makes me sort of think he could be town since he seems to be out of it and scum wouldn't think about being nightkilled when out of it like that. 255-258: Not a fan of this though.
Eh. I'm just going to wait until there are more posts before I come to a conclusion.
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The last one I meant to do I no longer feel like doing because it will take more time. I'll do it later.
Do you always play the victim when accused of being scum? Serious question!
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Something about this current Pink/Generic interaction really rubs me the wrong way. I need to consider.
Unrelatedly(sort of), if you are going to make statements like 'I react this way because I'm autistic', please just quit playing period. That is complete *****. Disabilities don't earn you sympathy in a competitive game that you willingly chose to sign up for, especially when a 'League' concept is involved. This is the absolute worst kind of 'out of game appeal'. I know this sounds unsympathetic, and I feel bad about that, but expecting people to take something like that into account is completely absurd.
Why are you assuming that the reason I'm voting for you now is the same reason I started off voting for you?
Because you voted me, unvoted me, and voted me again prior to my posting again so there was nothing else to trigger your vote.
Because when I asked you what was up, you said I was asking the wrong questions and told Sir Chris that I was asking pointless questions.
Because when I asked you to elaborate, you gave that post you just made without adding anything else.
Basically, you just got caught for inconsistent logic and dishonest vote reasoning so now you're trying to change your tune. This post is an admission of guilt.
Unvote: Vote: fulcrum
Everyone should be doing the same right now. Read me and fulcrum again closely. She's scum.
You don't seem to understand what I am trying to say DCiii. I thought what you did was scummy because town!dciii has reasons for the many questions he asks. Your questions turned out to have a point, so I think I see a town!dciii.
I would expect you to have no good reasoning for the question that seemed pointless if you were scum.
The amount of questions asked fit both your meta's.
That's not what you said, though. You said when I'm in my scum meta, my questions are pointless. What were you basing that on and what are you basing the last part of this on?
Huh. Strong statement from Pink Puddle about Generic, which overall makes me feel good about Generic.
If they're both scum it's really blatant buddying, and if Puddle is town that's a strong statement to make. If she's scum the last world is Generic is town.
Why are you assuming that the reason I'm voting for you now is the same reason I started off voting for you?
Because you voted me, unvoted me, and voted me again prior to my posting again so there was nothing else to trigger your vote.
Because when I asked you what was up, you said I was asking the wrong questions and told Sir Chris that I was asking pointless questions.
Because when I asked you to elaborate, you gave that post you just made without adding anything else.
Basically, you just got caught for inconsistent logic and dishonest vote reasoning so now you're trying to change your tune. This post is an admission of guilt.
Unvote: Vote: fulcrum
Everyone should be doing the same right now. Read me and fulcrum again closely. She's scum.
How exactly are you claiming to have caught me in a lie again? Was it the way I voted for you initially for asking a string of questions that pushed an agenda (defending Pink) without commenting on the game? Or the way I changed my reasoning after you didn't follow up on those questions, because that happens to be the stronger scumtell?
Accumulating more evidence isn't a scumtell, DC. But you already know that.
Huh. Strong statement from Pink Puddle about Generic, which overall makes me feel good about Generic.
If they're both scum it's really blatant buddying, and if Puddle is town that's a strong statement to make. If she's scum the last world is Generic is town.
Generic's reaction is actually what I really dislike about that whole exchange. It's not how I would expect him to act as town, based on prior experience. I'm trying to make heads or tails of it.
@Wheat: Lynching scum day one is a fine objective, but it isn't one we're going to have a great chance at unless someone slips pretty hard.
The Day 1 lynch on MTGS is scum more often than not, iirc. That's why not expecting to lynch scum Day 1 seems so scummy.
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I forgot to look at dudes last night. I'll rectify that now. I'm going to look at: Killjoy, Generic (the player who I realized is scum), and perhaps one other who makes me worry.
This is almost explicitly not true where I generally play. The chances to lynch scum on day one are at most 5% higher than literally randomly picking a name.
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[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Something about this current Pink/Generic interaction really rubs me the wrong way. I need to consider.
Unrelatedly(sort of), if you are going to make statements like 'I react this way because I'm autistic', please just quit playing period. That is complete *****. Disabilities don't earn you sympathy in a competitive game that you willingly chose to sign up for, especially when a 'League' concept is involved. This is the absolute worst kind of 'out of game appeal'. I know this sounds unsympathetic, and I feel bad about that, but expecting people to take something like that into account is completely absurd.
I was explaining how I react to real life situations because someone asked why I wase ruining my depression after being accused of scum. I was pointing out outside influences have affected my mood and therefore my reactions in game.
But since you feel so strongly I will quit.
To be clear, I do not want anyone to quit. I want everyone to play mafia and enjoy it. I just don't want people to use real life stuff to explain away in game behavior(not when it's pre-existing). It's not fair to other players to have to work around that.
Uhm Cyan, it is useful for us to know about his autism because it helps us to discern which behavior is normal for him and which is not. Mafia is a game with real people and getting to know the persons behind the avatars helps to read them. I don't understand your issue.
DCiii: I made assumptions about your scum meta based on your overall style and town play. And I'm pretty sure those assumptions are correct as they're general, hard to fake scum tells layered over your specific play.
Uhm Cyan, it is useful for us to know about his autism because it helps us to discern which behavior is normal for him and which is not. Mafia is a game with real people and getting to know the persons behind the avatars helps to read them. I don't understand your issue.
DCiii: I made assumptions about your scum meta based on your overall style and town play. And I'm pretty sure those assumptions are correct as they're general, hard to fake scum tells layered over your specific play.
I believe that he feels the out of game issue is being used as a shield to stop people from questioning his in-game behavior.
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[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Uhm Cyan, it is useful for us to know about his autism because it helps us to discern which behavior is normal for him and which is not. Mafia is a game with real people and getting to know the persons behind the avatars helps to read them. I don't understand your issue.
DCiii: I made assumptions about your scum meta based on your overall style and town play. And I'm pretty sure those assumptions are correct as they're general, hard to fake scum tells layered over your specific play.
I believe that he feels the out of game issue is being used as a shield to stop people from questioning his in-game behavior.
Well if that is true, then Generic is scum. Using it as a shield is a big scumtell for him.
@wheat
Usually generic comes off scummy right off the bat but pink and goblin stopped that normalcy. I think his aggression level might have more to do with his accusations out of rvs this game being lower.
I still don't care for dciii and citric.
@pink mind answering my followup question? Show what post made you think they were town, link the post and your interpretation of it.
I'm not doing the quote wall thing. Your reasons ring hollow, you deliberately mistook my view of you now for my view of you in the past, your reason for scumreading me is contrived, and you're still focused on telling people what you believe instead of trying to convince them of your scumreads.
town!fulcrum made D1 of Pleasantville almost unreadable with her lengthy wall-of-text wars with her scumspects, and did more of the same in Deus Ex. Kosa, who has more experience playing with her than I do, even warned us of her tendency to do this as town in the Deus Ex pre-game scumchat.
Scum will NEVER kill anyone that is a detriment to town unless they have no choice. Quite frankly, I'd be astonished if you survive to day two, Sir Chris.
This is from the same post in which tn diminished the importance of getting the D1 lynch right. This looks like some pretty obvious buddying. Sir Chris is my strongest town read right now, and this further cements tn as suspect #2 for me.
My League game was 5/16 anti-town. I'd be surprised if we weren't looking at 6 here.
Partially depends on if we have a vig, but I seriously doubt we have more than 5 anti-town. Looking at some past normals: WWE was 13/4/1, Archer was 11/4/1, Return to Ravnica was 12/3/1 and Star Wars was 13/4.
To elaborate: if the questions you fire everywhere are pointless, you're in your scum meta. When they have goals, it's your town meta.
FTR, I don't agree with this assessment at all. Something rings hollow in the interactions between DCIII and Rhand and my town read on Rhand is slipping.
Do you always play the victim when accused of being scum? Serious question!
I've found that town!Generic tends to be more emotive in his responses to other players, but I formed an early town read on him in Marvel Madness 2 because of it and he was scum. Truthfully, I don't even think it is worth the trouble to try to get an early-game read on Generic.
How exactly are you claiming to have caught me in a lie again? Was it the way I voted for you initially for asking a string of questions that pushed an agenda (defending Pink) without commenting on the game? Or the way I changed my reasoning after you didn't follow up on those questions, because that happens to be the stronger scumtell?
Accumulating more evidence isn't a scumtell, DC. But you already know that.
fulcrum is scum and everyone needs to pay attention and I've already explained the answer to all of the above questions in my previous posts, but I'll consolidate:
Let's revisit the timeline. fulcrum voted me after my initial questions. Meanwhile she unvotes, votes Cyan, and then votes me again. Between then, I hadn't posted. So her reasoning for voting me a second time couldn't have changed from her reason for voting me the first time.
I ask her what's up, she says I'm asking all the wrong questions (vague). She then adds some insight into her POV by asking Chris about me implying that I was asking pointless questions and wasn't scum hunting.
Firstly, this rings false because she voted for me right away, prior to seeing what I did with the questions or trying to figure out my mindset behind the questions... so that reason in and of itself is bad.
So I asked her to explain which of my questions were pointlesss.
She then goes through breaking down my questions one by one. In the first question she says that I asked a question about Generic's bad logic but didn't follow up on it. If Generic was using bad logic per her, and I pressed him on it, then there clearly would have been a reason behind my asking it. So her initial stance that my questions were pointless and that I wasn't scum hunting can't have been honest because she herself thinks that Generic's logic was bad and she wouldn't have had enough time to see if I'd followed up on Generic about it.
The other most convincing point in that chain is her calling my question to GG pointless when there was a very clear point behind that which was to get him to respond to why he was voting for Pink because his initial vote gave no reason and didn't even seem to indicate that he thought she was scum. So there's no way that fulcrum should have thought that was a pointless question initially but especially after she saw the reactions to it.
So that whole initial read was dishonest.
But, read the rest of my response to her analysis where I discuss what my goals were in askinig those questions.
She then (after just having done it prior to my response) refuses to go point by point with me when I point out the flaws in her reasons and explain my thought process at the time. If she really thought she was onto something there, she would have. She then says just that I was deliberately mistaking her stance then with her stance now and that I was just saying what I thought was happening, not pushing my scum reads. I hope that last point is obvious at how bad it is, but the first point I've already discussed above. I was not mistaking her stance, she voted me the second time for the same reason she did the first time because I didn't respond between then - so her reason when she re-voted couldn't have changed.
Then, when I call her on that, she asks why I assume that her stance couldn't have changed - I responded with all of the reasons in my last post to her. But she's basically backing down from the confrontation while still trying to hold onto her stance which I've already disproven but she doesn't want to engage in the back and forth.
Why doesn't she want to engage in the back and forth? Because she's scum. If she legitimately thought she had something on her read of me me, she'd be doing that to try to illustrate to everyone why I'm scum rather than saying so while trying to de-escalate the situation.
Also, in this above post, that's the first time she's alleged that I was defending Pink with my questions but, firstly, I did think that the initial wagon on Pink was bad, which is why I was questioning those on it. Again, I've explained my thought process on that at the time and she hasn't engaged it. And, she says that she "changed her reasoning" for the vote, but, again, when she voted the second time there wasn't a response inbetween and she didn't introduce these other reasons until I started pressing her about them and when I responded, then she decided she couldn't be bothered responding to the points.
Basically, it doesn't add up at all when you look at it, and I encourage everyone to do so and vote for her.
DC - Looks town to me. Was my strongest town read in our last game and I am seeing more of the same here. His arguments are easy for me to follow and they seem to be trying to get at the motivations of the people he is questioning.
Sir Chris - I haven't seen his scum game, but this looks like the town games I have played with him again. There is purpose to his posts and I really like his ability to separate questioning to figure out the mindset of a player and actually pushing scum reads.
Scarbo - His initial line of questioning on Sir Chris felt genuine, like he was trying to understand his mind set. Leaning town.
Cyan - Last game with him he was an un-cc'd scum doctor that let him ride out a win, but his posting was decidely scummy to me in that he wouldn't lead town and wouldn't actually push scumreads or try to do anything. It feels more like he is trying this game which makes me think he is town, but want to see more.
Killjoy - I have thought he was scum the last two games I played with him and he was town. I get the same scum feel I got in those games which is making me think it's just a style thing that doesn't mesh with me. This is not to say he couldn't be scum here, but I am leaning town.
GG - Comes off as new to me. Not alignment indicative though.
Generic - I was reading Generic as either scum or town power due to his pretty logical and relatively low-emotion posting. Wanted to let it play out longer to get a better read on which, but Wheat sort of let the cat out of the bag and Generic has already soft-claimed town power, so no reason to hold that read. VT Generic seems to be a lot more disengaged and all over the place, though I know some of that comes from his personality as well. Numerous times Generic has said to flip traditional reads upside down to read him accurately. His posts in a vacuum look like town posts to me and so flipping that upside down has me leaning scum.
Pink - Without knowing her (going to roll with her since that's what other people seem to be going with, but feel free to correct us if we are wrong) experience level for sure (I assume based on knowing about metas and trying to draw early votes she is at least of moderate experience), I would say she was town trying to get an early wagon for reads and/or to lower the chances of getting NK'd N1. If she is inexperience, then I retract that and think she is more likely to be scum. I also don't really like that defense of Generic if he is town.
Fulcrum - Was scumreading her for not really scumhunting and sort of active-lurking and then the thing with DC happened, and I think DC has a good case.
I don't know what it means that all of the people I have voted thus far have cited out of game reasons for their issues.
Either I am just catching a lot of people on a bad day or scum is one note. Very, very one note.
Hm.
Generic defended GG, and then backed up Pink. DK defends Generic, kind of. No one seems to be defending fulcrum as of yet, in fact noting that her behavior thus far contradicts her MO, and she gives an out of game reason for this.
Private Mod Note
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
@Chris - Does the fact that they have OOG issues make them less likely to be scum in your opinion? Also, do you think no one defending Fulcrum makes her more likely to be town or scum?
Can someone restate why Killjoy and Seppel are being voted up?
I said that I thought that you were fencesitting so you could wait till others helped validate the wagon a little bit. Just so we're clear on that.
Now, you say that I'm doing the same thing. I'm not. No, I didn't vote you right away, but I don't vote purely on gut anyway. I stated in my post that my suspicion of you in that post was mostly gut, then the way you assumed I was trying to twist your words helped upgrade my suspicion toward you. I caught you in Archer but I wasn't around then. I plan to not make that mistake again.
Why is it dishonest? I don't understand your point here. 25% of 17 is about 4, so I'd say 4. It matters in that it will help to read Generic, I think. I don't know Mara so her identity doesn't matter to me in that way, but since Generic reacted pretty strongly it might help figure him out somewhere down the line.
The first part of this is just an attempt to hand wave me/discredit me.
The second part is bad for three reasons - one, no, if people are dismissing my point on you because they think you have past precedent, I want to see what that precedent is. So I don't expect that the chance of people doing this is zero and if it doesn't happen than I'm going to wonder why those people were dismissing my case. Two, it feels very much like you're trying to intercept this from happening. But three, the bolded above. All of the second part of your post carries suspicion with it. You're accusing me of attempting to appear to look great (why would town do that?), you're saying that I'm using a cheap trick first of all, what's the trick? Asking people to justify their meta statements? But a cheap trick implies that I'm being disingenuous and trying to get people to fall for something. Both of those accusations are things that I would have no reason to do as town. They're loaded charges against me - and yet you clarify in your post that you're not saying this makes my scummy? Your language is suspicious of me, but if that suspicion was genuine, you wouldn't feel the need to add that clarification in there. Why not wait to see my reaction to thinking you suspect me so that you can assess it? It's in there because you're trying to diffuse the situation, there's no other purpose for it and it contradicts the mindset of finding the rest of what I'm doing suspicious.
Please let's lynch Cyan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you just messed up, fulcrum.
When you first voted me for my post, I wouldn't have had time to follow up on my question to Generic - but you just admitted that there was a logical error in Generic's post - but your initial reason for voting me is that I was just asking questions for the sake of asking questions. If you think that Generic made a logical error and I questioned him about it, how is that asking a question for the sake of asking a question? Wouldn't that have been a good question to ask? There's a contradiction there and I think you're probably scum.
To address your point - I didn't follow up on that from Generic because his #62 seemed like a very good point on Pink and the way that she acted like she didn't think he was serious was unbelievable and made me think that she was actually worried about the early pressure on her and her reactions to Generic. And that changed my opinion on her and the wagon and made me think Generic less suspicious because of the way that he went after her didn't make sense from a scum on scum interaction standpoint.
And I wanted to learn something about all of these people I was asking questions to. Obvious answer is obvious. But not really obvious because you wouldn't be pushing me about these questions if you thought there was a point to them, right? I questioned Hawk because I didn't think that Generic's reasoning was sound on Pink and then Hawks questions seemed to be trying to pile on/prove that she knew him but didn't seem to have a point other than that. I also didn't get the point of asking her her motive for playing as a gimmick on this site. People play as gimmicks so that people don't know who they are. They make that decision prior to being sent a role PM. I thought that was a pointless question designed to look scum-hunty by building off of what Generic was doing so I asked him about it - and I even explained what my point was shortly after.
There was nothing veiled about the criticism, and I thought that he was focused on proving that she knew him as the main goal of his questioning without taking a line either way. His follow up vote on her, and some of his later questions (like trying to figure out what GG thinks he'd learn from lynching Pink, for example) seemed to be much more pointed and to be coming from an inquisitive mindset, so I no longer suspected him at that point.
Wrong. He didn't actually know whether he thought she was scum or not and I asked it because he didn't give any reason for voting her when he did... and his response to me triggered the post that many others have found scummy (and I disagree with). The point of the question was exactly that, because he didn't say he thought she was scum when voting for her so I wanted to hear his thought process behind why he was. I don't think there's any way you can honestly believe this was a pointless question.
I already went over this one with Rhand but it's not an obvious answer. It appears like an obvious answer because voting someone to piss them off isn't a good reason to vote for someone - but it's not necessarily scum motivated in and of itself and is an easy reason to use to vote that player (which is why I was questioning the wagon). There's context needed to draw that conclusion which is what I was asking for because, at that time, I thought it much less likely that she'd behave in that way as scum because there's no way that vote would generate a mislynch for the reason given and because all it does is draw focus to herself.
The above analysis from you isn't honest. I'll also vote for fulcrum Today.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rhand, you're saying that firing many questions at people is my style, but earlier you also asked me if I was asking questions for the sake of asking questions. Why ask that question then if you think that this is normally my style? What changed with regard to your opinion of my questions in my first post? It feels to me like you're trying to cut fulcrum off before she digs too deep.
Cyan/Pink/fulcrum/Rhand feels very good as a suspect list to me.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Those four but not Grenade?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Please respond.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
But you've taken great pains to excuse yourself from answering each individual point. Why would town need to do such a thing?
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
@Generic
I have decided nothing. I have my current thoughts, but I am always willing to change my mind if things change. I try my best not to tunnel people, it has ended poorly for me more often than not.
Your explanation makes sense, really. You say it the way you do now and I go 'oh, sure, that's what he meant' but something still bothers me about the way you originally phrased that. It felt weird to me, not genuine.
What does everyone else think of Generic's post which I voted him for? Am I just seeing things here?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Correct - I've given my opinion on GG - I don't think he's experienced at all and I don't see a player like him as scum openly admitting to voting for someone they don't think is scum. He strikes me just as really green, reminds me of 6Cs in BioShock.
What. How am I not trying to convince people of my scum reads?
Also, no - I didn't mistake anything. You voted for me as soon as I asked those questions and your reasoning was that the questions were pointless. You both didn't wait to see where I was going with them and you recently pointed out that Generic had faulty logic then. So if he had faulty logic then, asking him about it then shouldn't have seemed pointless to you then. It shows that your initial reason for voting me was dishonest.
Rhand - I've only been scum twice and neither of those games were characterized by firing pointless questions everywhere. I think you're making this up.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
@Citric: I'll include players who are not voting in the future.
I would expect you to have no good reasoning for the question that seemed pointless if you were scum.
The amount of questions asked fit both your meta's.
The Day 1 lynch on MTGS is scum more often than not, iirc. That's why not expecting to lynch scum Day 1 seems so scummy.
---
I forgot to look at dudes last night. I'll rectify that now. I'm going to look at: Killjoy, Generic (the player who I realized is scum), and perhaps one other who makes me worry.
24 is fine. 41 I agree with. 157 is cyanoia which could go either way. I don't like 187. 206 is okay, 207 as well, even if I disagree with the former.
I think KJ is fairly obvious scum when he's scum and I'm not seeing obvious scum. He's not being terribly townie on another look through but if he's scum I think it'll be more obvious later.
---
Generic:
I'm pretty sure I'm right about this now that I've looked it over.
A few weeks ago (before the start of this game) I was talking with Iso about various players and how we read them, and Iso mentioned a way of reading Generic I didn't know about. Generic's displaying his scum mindset here, according to Iso's characterization: town!Generic gets in people's faces (example: in the last league game he wanted to 1v1 about 4 different players), while scum!Generic avoids that level of conflict.
However, I need to prove to myself that Iso's characterization is actually correct before I put down a vote. I need to look at a few Generic games.
@Generic: What are your last two town games and last two scum games?
---
GoblinGrenadier:
I forgot about this when I made my earlier post, but I wanted to re-examine GG.
32 into 37 is still awful. Votes for Pink but then later says he's not sure if Pink is scum but that she should be "the sacrifice" which is really scummy phrasing.
74 is also crappy in that he's seeing nothing anything scummy in 74 posts. His mindset is consistent so far, though.
162 also explains the former opinions. 165 refusing to say more due to being busy is sorta eh due to the phrasing but I can overlook that.
What I can't overlook is the fact that his last post was 3 days ago.
Conclusion: He's scummy but consistent which implies that he's not actually scum.
@Mod: Prod GoblinGrenadier please
Unvote
---
CitricBase:
This is another one I wanted to do but forgot I wanted to do. I know it'll be short so I might as well.
65: Fluff. 77: Fluff. 163: He finally has an opinion, but nothing to back it up. He also says he's be NK'd if he actually tried as a joke, but that actually makes me sort of think he could be town since he seems to be out of it and scum wouldn't think about being nightkilled when out of it like that. 255-258: Not a fan of this though.
Eh. I'm just going to wait until there are more posts before I come to a conclusion.
---
The last one I meant to do I no longer feel like doing because it will take more time. I'll do it later.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Unrelatedly(sort of), if you are going to make statements like 'I react this way because I'm autistic', please just quit playing period. That is complete *****. Disabilities don't earn you sympathy in a competitive game that you willingly chose to sign up for, especially when a 'League' concept is involved. This is the absolute worst kind of 'out of game appeal'. I know this sounds unsympathetic, and I feel bad about that, but expecting people to take something like that into account is completely absurd.
Because you voted me, unvoted me, and voted me again prior to my posting again so there was nothing else to trigger your vote.
Because when I asked you what was up, you said I was asking the wrong questions and told Sir Chris that I was asking pointless questions.
Because when I asked you to elaborate, you gave that post you just made without adding anything else.
Basically, you just got caught for inconsistent logic and dishonest vote reasoning so now you're trying to change your tune. This post is an admission of guilt.
Unvote: Vote: fulcrum
Everyone should be doing the same right now. Read me and fulcrum again closely. She's scum.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
That's not what you said, though. You said when I'm in my scum meta, my questions are pointless. What were you basing that on and what are you basing the last part of this on?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
If they're both scum it's really blatant buddying, and if Puddle is town that's a strong statement to make. If she's scum the last world is Generic is town.
How exactly are you claiming to have caught me in a lie again? Was it the way I voted for you initially for asking a string of questions that pushed an agenda (defending Pink) without commenting on the game? Or the way I changed my reasoning after you didn't follow up on those questions, because that happens to be the stronger scumtell?
Accumulating more evidence isn't a scumtell, DC. But you already know that.
Generic's reaction is actually what I really dislike about that whole exchange. It's not how I would expect him to act as town, based on prior experience. I'm trying to make heads or tails of it.
@fulcrum
Exactly as I'm posting them?
This is almost explicitly not true where I generally play. The chances to lynch scum on day one are at most 5% higher than literally randomly picking a name.
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
And those would be?
To be clear, I do not want anyone to quit. I want everyone to play mafia and enjoy it. I just don't want people to use real life stuff to explain away in game behavior(not when it's pre-existing). It's not fair to other players to have to work around that.
And yes, I probably take mafia too seriously.
Wheat and generic
DCiii: I made assumptions about your scum meta based on your overall style and town play. And I'm pretty sure those assumptions are correct as they're general, hard to fake scum tells layered over your specific play.
I believe that he feels the out of game issue is being used as a shield to stop people from questioning his in-game behavior.
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
Well if that is true, then Generic is scum. Using it as a shield is a big scumtell for him.
[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.
Mafia dossier: tn5421
I have no interest in lynching cyan.
@wheat
Usually generic comes off scummy right off the bat but pink and goblin stopped that normalcy. I think his aggression level might have more to do with his accusations out of rvs this game being lower.
I still don't care for dciii and citric.
@pink mind answering my followup question? Show what post made you think they were town, link the post and your interpretation of it.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Vote fulcrum
Other things notwithstanding, this is a complete load of garbage:
town!fulcrum made D1 of Pleasantville almost unreadable with her lengthy wall-of-text wars with her scumspects, and did more of the same in Deus Ex. Kosa, who has more experience playing with her than I do, even warned us of her tendency to do this as town in the Deus Ex pre-game scumchat.
On to some other things:
This is from the same post in which tn diminished the importance of getting the D1 lynch right. This looks like some pretty obvious buddying. Sir Chris is my strongest town read right now, and this further cements tn as suspect #2 for me.
Partially depends on if we have a vig, but I seriously doubt we have more than 5 anti-town. Looking at some past normals: WWE was 13/4/1, Archer was 11/4/1, Return to Ravnica was 12/3/1 and Star Wars was 13/4.
On a side note, I agree with this. I was irritated when Proph used our mentor chat against me in Pleasantville.
Why these two? I know someone else asked you this as well, so if you have already answered you can just point me to it.
FTR, I don't agree with this assessment at all. Something rings hollow in the interactions between DCIII and Rhand and my town read on Rhand is slipping.
I've found that town!Generic tends to be more emotive in his responses to other players, but I formed an early town read on him in Marvel Madness 2 because of it and he was scum. Truthfully, I don't even think it is worth the trouble to try to get an early-game read on Generic.
Not be explaining this right now. You are reading. If you're not you're going to have to explain.
Voted me for fishing doesn't commit to anything.
fulcrum is scum and everyone needs to pay attention and I've already explained the answer to all of the above questions in my previous posts, but I'll consolidate:
Let's revisit the timeline. fulcrum voted me after my initial questions. Meanwhile she unvotes, votes Cyan, and then votes me again. Between then, I hadn't posted. So her reasoning for voting me a second time couldn't have changed from her reason for voting me the first time.
I ask her what's up, she says I'm asking all the wrong questions (vague). She then adds some insight into her POV by asking Chris about me implying that I was asking pointless questions and wasn't scum hunting.
Firstly, this rings false because she voted for me right away, prior to seeing what I did with the questions or trying to figure out my mindset behind the questions... so that reason in and of itself is bad.
So I asked her to explain which of my questions were pointlesss.
She then goes through breaking down my questions one by one. In the first question she says that I asked a question about Generic's bad logic but didn't follow up on it. If Generic was using bad logic per her, and I pressed him on it, then there clearly would have been a reason behind my asking it. So her initial stance that my questions were pointless and that I wasn't scum hunting can't have been honest because she herself thinks that Generic's logic was bad and she wouldn't have had enough time to see if I'd followed up on Generic about it.
The other most convincing point in that chain is her calling my question to GG pointless when there was a very clear point behind that which was to get him to respond to why he was voting for Pink because his initial vote gave no reason and didn't even seem to indicate that he thought she was scum. So there's no way that fulcrum should have thought that was a pointless question initially but especially after she saw the reactions to it.
So that whole initial read was dishonest.
But, read the rest of my response to her analysis where I discuss what my goals were in askinig those questions.
She then (after just having done it prior to my response) refuses to go point by point with me when I point out the flaws in her reasons and explain my thought process at the time. If she really thought she was onto something there, she would have. She then says just that I was deliberately mistaking her stance then with her stance now and that I was just saying what I thought was happening, not pushing my scum reads. I hope that last point is obvious at how bad it is, but the first point I've already discussed above. I was not mistaking her stance, she voted me the second time for the same reason she did the first time because I didn't respond between then - so her reason when she re-voted couldn't have changed.
Then, when I call her on that, she asks why I assume that her stance couldn't have changed - I responded with all of the reasons in my last post to her. But she's basically backing down from the confrontation while still trying to hold onto her stance which I've already disproven but she doesn't want to engage in the back and forth.
Why doesn't she want to engage in the back and forth? Because she's scum. If she legitimately thought she had something on her read of me me, she'd be doing that to try to illustrate to everyone why I'm scum rather than saying so while trying to de-escalate the situation.
Also, in this above post, that's the first time she's alleged that I was defending Pink with my questions but, firstly, I did think that the initial wagon on Pink was bad, which is why I was questioning those on it. Again, I've explained my thought process on that at the time and she hasn't engaged it. And, she says that she "changed her reasoning" for the vote, but, again, when she voted the second time there wasn't a response inbetween and she didn't introduce these other reasons until I started pressing her about them and when I responded, then she decided she couldn't be bothered responding to the points.
Basically, it doesn't add up at all when you look at it, and I encourage everyone to do so and vote for her.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Sir Chris - I haven't seen his scum game, but this looks like the town games I have played with him again. There is purpose to his posts and I really like his ability to separate questioning to figure out the mindset of a player and actually pushing scum reads.
Scarbo - His initial line of questioning on Sir Chris felt genuine, like he was trying to understand his mind set. Leaning town.
Cyan - Last game with him he was an un-cc'd scum doctor that let him ride out a win, but his posting was decidely scummy to me in that he wouldn't lead town and wouldn't actually push scumreads or try to do anything. It feels more like he is trying this game which makes me think he is town, but want to see more.
Killjoy - I have thought he was scum the last two games I played with him and he was town. I get the same scum feel I got in those games which is making me think it's just a style thing that doesn't mesh with me. This is not to say he couldn't be scum here, but I am leaning town.
GG - Comes off as new to me. Not alignment indicative though.
Generic - I was reading Generic as either scum or town power due to his pretty logical and relatively low-emotion posting. Wanted to let it play out longer to get a better read on which, but Wheat sort of let the cat out of the bag and Generic has already soft-claimed town power, so no reason to hold that read. VT Generic seems to be a lot more disengaged and all over the place, though I know some of that comes from his personality as well. Numerous times Generic has said to flip traditional reads upside down to read him accurately. His posts in a vacuum look like town posts to me and so flipping that upside down has me leaning scum.
Pink - Without knowing her (going to roll with her since that's what other people seem to be going with, but feel free to correct us if we are wrong) experience level for sure (I assume based on knowing about metas and trying to draw early votes she is at least of moderate experience), I would say she was town trying to get an early wagon for reads and/or to lower the chances of getting NK'd N1. If she is inexperience, then I retract that and think she is more likely to be scum. I also don't really like that defense of Generic if he is town.
Fulcrum - Was scumreading her for not really scumhunting and sort of active-lurking and then the thing with DC happened, and I think DC has a good case.
Vote: Fulcrum
Anyone else is currently somewhere in the middle.
Either I am just catching a lot of people on a bad day or scum is one note. Very, very one note.
Hm.
Generic defended GG, and then backed up Pink. DK defends Generic, kind of. No one seems to be defending fulcrum as of yet, in fact noting that her behavior thus far contradicts her MO, and she gives an out of game reason for this.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player