I'm willing to keep track of pseudo-votecounts for you guys, if you'd like. Please CC me on all PMs to Seppel add me to all your Role PM conversations with Seppel, if he doesn't beat you to it.
VOTECOUNT
Chemtrails - 1 (KoolKoal)
Blindfaeth - 1 (Wheat_Grinder) <- as of the end of this post
Wheat_Grinder - 1 (RelmArrowny)
Sir Chris - 1 (Gentleman Johnny)
^I think I missed a few because I forgot in the middle of reading after page 2 and I'm not going to go back again, particularly if gan_dan says he will.
I feel like Chris is town.
Megiddo feels exactly like he did in The Wall.
I think I'm ultimately down for the ATK claim. HP is still hidden so it's not really obvious how much HP a player has, so I think the benefit to the scum is pretty lower.
Dante (38): I'm not sure why people want Dante killed yet. Yeah this is a scummy post but not an actual scum post.
Dante (41): Never mind, I'm starting to see it.
Dante (44): Yeah I'm really starting to dislike Dante. Far too self-aware, and I say that as the king of self-awareness. But as the king of self-awareness I'm not fully certain he's actually scum.
Mojito Fun's entrance (52) pings me but there's not enough there yet.
Blindfaeth (57): Completely ignores the reason someone might vote, and doesn't even wonder why, even though I hinted that I knew there wasn't voting and still wanted to vote anyway.
KK's response to Blindfaeth makes me feel good about KK.
Bur feels like standard Bur so probably town.
I'm a little worried by Cantrip not understanding the rules; it doesn't make sense to me that he wouldn't understand after reading it twice. But does the behavior indicate scum? ...I guess it doesn't. I'll be keeping an eye on him anyway though.
I think Chemtrails is a Megiddo alt.
Huntz bright bold shouting BREADCRUMBS makes him town.
Yep, the posts afterwards make me certain that Huntz is town.
I'm a little curious as to why people jumping on me didn't jump on Sepi for what's pretty much the same post I made.
Blindfaeth (100): I missed this on my earlier read or else it would have snapped me out of my reverie. Blindfaeth is scum.
Sepiriel (101): I pointed this out before by saying "r u ok" but this feels kinda forced. But it's Sepi so...no ball
Iso (105): I think this turned out not to be Iso's own line which is really damned unfortunate because it fits him perfectly.
Not sure how I feel about Arch's response to cantrip.
I'm starting to feel better that Dante is just new and trying really hard, rather than scum.
Chris's response to Sins is just *weird* but I'm pretty sure Chris was town from the start. I think I'm going to ignore it for now.
That said, I want to know what Sins sees in regards to Chris. Or what Iso sees in Chris, because I don't see it.
I like RA
146 (DCIII): Why do you think GJ is town for being sloppy?
193 (KJ): This is town KJ.
tl;dr: There are a lot of players I think are town, but only Blindfaeth feels scum so far.
I'm thinking I'll make my attack soon but I want more than one scumread first if possible.
So earlier today I came up with an RPG setup that should hopefully eliminate the problems with previous RPG setups (namely, the best strategy is to push damage and buy healing items). Would anyone like to review it?
Seppel (and gan_dan) approached this thing fresh off an RPG setup that a) could've been broken open in the town's favor with a D1 fullclaim (to my recollection) and b) was methodically broken open by scum!Seppel when everyone claimed their "class" by gaming and exploiting player stats
no way in hell this setup is that exploitable by either side
Benefit:
+We can keep track of our hp and know when a death is coming exactly, so we can choose the likely town to get the hammer bonus xp.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
that benefit is circumstantial and subject to the slightest lie or mistake
I'm looking at this and wondering how, in your mind, your stated pros and cons tip the balance in favor of the former
VOTECOUNT
Chemtrails - 1 (KoolKoal)
Blindfaeth - 1 (Wheat_Grinder) <- as of the end of this post
Wheat_Grinder - 1 (RelmArrowny)
Sir Chris - 1 (Gentleman Johnny)
^I think I missed a few because I forgot in the middle of reading after page 2 and I'm not going to go back again, particularly if gan_dan says he will.
(1) Here's what I hear, Wheat: "Look how helpful I'm being, even though a mod said he'd do this already; I don't want to miss out on my opportunity to show how helpful I am."
Quote from Wheat »
I feel like Chris is town.
Megiddo feels exactly like he did in The Wall.
(2) You give no justification/reason on the former; (3) you give no indication of whether that makes Megiddo more likely to be town or scum (by letting us look it up ourselves, you paint Megiddo a certain way without actually committing to a read in print).
Quote from -Wheat »
I think I'm ultimately down for the ATK claim. HP is still hidden so it's not really obvious how much HP a player has, so I think the benefit to the scum is pretty lower.
I'm still a little torn on whether the ATK claim is a good idea, so I don't have a problem with you pushing for it, but (4) the bolded shows a self-conscious/post pre-editting mentality that pings my scumdar.
Quote from Wheat »
Dante (38): I'm not sure why people want Dante killed yet. Yeah this is a scummy post but not an actual scum post.
(5) The first sentence sounds like your addendum will be "But if there's enough support for his lynch, I'll become sure." (6) The second sentence sounds like "I can see how Dante's post is scummy, but I know he's not 'actual scum', so I'll defend him for now."
Quote from Wheat »
Dante (41): Never mind, I'm starting to see it.
Dante (44): Yeah I'm really starting to dislike Dante. Far too self-aware, and I say that as the king of self-awareness. But as the king of self-awareness I'm not fully certain he's actually scum.
(7) No specificity on the first, and the "reason" for the second one dissolves into a waffle.
Quote from Wheat »
Mojito Fun's entrance (52) pings me but there's not enough there yet.
(8) Again, no reason for why it pings you, but give it time and you'll find something more on him.
Quote from Wheat »
Bur feels like standard Bur so probably town.
Again, nothing concrete, just "feels like Bur".
Quote from Wheat »
I'm a little worried by Cantrip not understanding the rules; it doesn't make sense to me that he wouldn't understand after reading it twice. But does the behavior indicate scum? ...I guess it doesn't. I'll be keeping an eye on him anyway though.
I was seriously confused. (Seppel confirmed that the Day ends when everyone attacks.) (9) You sound pretty disappointed that you don't think you can get away with attacking me for this.
Quote from Wheat »
I think Chemtrails is a Megiddo alt.
Is this serious?
Quote from Wheat »
I'm a little curious as to why people jumping on me didn't jump on Sepi for what's pretty much the same post I made.
(10) You're deflecting the reasons you're coming under attack onto another player, without naming your attackers (because then you'd be attacking them), and not showing how Sepi's post is similar to yours.
Quote from Wheat »
Blindfaeth (100): I missed this on my earlier read or else it would have snapped me out of my reverie. Blindfaeth is scum.
(11) Again, no specificity as to why he's scum for this post; just a "solid" read.
Quote from Wheat »
Not sure how I feel about Arch's response to cantrip.
Why? What about that post makes you think he might be town/scum?
Quote from Wheat »
I'm starting to feel better that Dante is just new and trying really hard, rather than scum.
(12) "Hmm, maybe Dante's wagon doesn't have the support I thought it did." (Ok, I can see town saying what you said, but--AGAIN--no specifics.
Quote from Wheat »
I like RA
(13) Still no specificity.
There are some good questions to people in that mix, but there's also a HUGE amount of vagueness and allusion. You're taking positions on players with no rationale so that it's easier to dismiss those reads later/reinforce them at your convenience.
In eeveelution, the scum were able to manipulate the vote count and act like they didn't care about votes later, hidden among townies who didn't care about following the agreed-upon vote rules.
I made it even worse by starting the trend of voting for all of my suspects, and soon everyone was voting for 3 or 4 people almost constantly and a full quarter the people were fair game to attack according to the rules we agreed upon at the start. (So even if you guys disagree with me on voting in general. We need a strict 1 vote-per-person policy.)
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Dante: If I may ask: what is your mafia experience? (# of games, as town, as scum, etc.)
My only mafia experience to date has been in real life, rather than forum-based, however there is quite a bit of that. I have probably played upwards of 90ish games total. Most of them were vanilla games with only a doc and a cop. 20 or so were Star Wars mafia games with a special role for everyone, but those were with a less competitive playgroup. Everyone knew all the roles going into the games, which tended to last around half an hour. I would say I had about a 20-70 mafia-town split, with an above-average win ratio. Most of the games I participated in were three years ago. The past few years I haven't gotten to play as much as I would like.
I have lurked enough on this forums that I am somewhat familiar with your terminology, but I haven't specifically followed any games.
In my previous metagame, town didn't lie. Ever. I've never encountered a false cop claim by a town before, so I assumed Cantrip was telling the truth or scum. Which to me seemed like we were approaching enough info to justify an attack, thus why I said to disregard my previous post advising caution.
This gambit seems to be pretty widely accepted here, judging from the reactions of others, but my perspective is that it's more likely to inspire reactions from the naive than the guilty.
What would everyone think of doing a partial mass attack-stat claim day one, but only if someone is attacked to the point of death? As the day will not end until everyone has attacked, we have the luxury of conversing so long as at least one person has not attacked. We could then have everyone who attacked the dead person claim their attack-stat, and be able to tell if there is a liar in the bunch because we should have the HP of the dead person from the role reveal. This would give us some of the benefits of knowing others attack stats while also hopefully forcing the scum to be honest. If the scum are not honest, we know that there is a scum in the group of attackers. This doesn't narrow it down that much, but it could be useful down the road as people in that group die and give us certain information about their role.
In my previous metagame, town didn't lie. Ever. I've never encountered a false cop claim by a town before, so I assumed Cantrip was telling the truth or scum. Which to me seemed like we were approaching enough info to justify an attack, thus why I said to disregard my previous post advising caution.
This gambit seems to be pretty widely accepted here, judging from the reactions of others, but my perspective is that it's more likely to inspire reactions from the naive than the guilty.
this is reasonable
having played on a few sites, I can say town reaction gambits are more common here -- and you're right, it often doesn't work unless the gambit is looking for something specific
What would everyone think of doing a partial mass attack-stat claim day one, but only if someone is attacked to the point of death? As the day will not end until everyone has attacked, we have the luxury of conversing so long as at least one person has not attacked. We could then have everyone who attacked the dead person claim their attack-stat, and be able to tell if there is a liar in the bunch because we should have the HP of the dead person from the role reveal. This would give us some of the benefits of knowing others attack stats while also hopefully forcing the scum to be honest. If the scum are not honest, we know that there is a scum in the group of attackers. This doesn't narrow it down that much, but it could be useful down the road as people in that group die and give us certain information about their role.
MisterSins: When you said Chris was at 95% anti-town, why didn't you actually attack him then and there?
95 isn't 100, and there's no rush. So I'd rather wait until I'm either 100% or we're closer to deadline, since unlike votes, you can't take back your attack.
Cantrip's posts are boring
I like Hans for town.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about Iso's super early shot. I don't find it indicative of alignment, but I was still expecting more of a reaction than what we got.
@Wheat: What about Chris makes you think he was town from the start?
I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about Iso's super early shot. I don't find it indicative of alignment, but I was still expecting more of a reaction than what we got.
I was thinking the same thing, but I chalked it up to the fact that it's Iso. People are less surprised by his antics.
Plus I have recently watched him blow his wad a little early.... here
Iso: Why should we be attacking so soon? And why does BF's post warrant an attack?
A huge chunk of my analyzing prowess comes from votecount and wagon interactions. Given that I don't plan to vote at all for this entire game (and I'm sure I'm not the only one), the best way to gauge a player's intent is to see who, how, and when they attack. I wanted to see if I could spur any itchy trigger finger players into attacking. Apparently I could not, despite a few people agreeing with me RE: DCIII's post. Which leads me to my next concern: DCIII agreed with my easy scum reads, but then Blindfaeth sort of wrote off DCIII after I attacked DCIII. That makes me think that DCIII might be town and Blindfaeth more likely to be scum, but I seem to recall an interaction earlier that made them possible scumbuddies. That said, I think the former is more likely, and why Faeth's post was the only reason I'd have attacked him over DCIII at that point.
Basically, I'm not used to people agreeing with me about certain things so early on, and I also don't like the way Faeth slings mud and discredits without following things through. It's a prime scum tactic - especially in this type of game, as that's how I caught Seppel in Eeveelution. Seppel basically said, "Hey, Tordeck is lying and/or scum because of (X), because I'm also Leafeon and know what his choices could have been" or something to that effect, and then other people attacked Tordeck instead of Seppel.
Basically, I think that if everyone focuses fire on Faeth that we'll at least have 1 body before Day 1 ends. Which is good. Especially since I think it's a scum body.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about Iso's super early shot. I don't find it indicative of alignment, but I was still expecting more of a reaction than what we got.
I was hoping for something a little more than what we got, obviously.
-
Also, someone said something about me saying something about Chris? I don't think I've said anything about Chris in this game...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
To be fair to Dante Seppel did make it clear how using SP affects stats so we could theoretically reverse engineer things from there but it would require us to know a few things that we currently dont know such as the persons SP expenditure and stuff.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
(1) Here's what I hear, Wheat: "Look how helpful I'm being, even though a mod said he'd do this already; I don't want to miss out on my opportunity to show how helpful I am."
First of all, I didn't actually see that gan_dan had offered until the end. In addition, this point has never been true against me as far back as STMU2, my very first game, wherein Seppel tried to call me scum for doing the same thing when Rax wasn't getting up votecounts reasonably fast.
(2) You give no justification/reason on the former; (3) you give no indication of whether that makes Megiddo more likely to be town or scum (by letting us look it up ourselves, you paint Megiddo a certain way without actually committing to a read in print).
(2) I don't always give justifications/reasons. This has been true for a long time.
(3) I think Meg is more likely town because he sounds just like the Wall. You're right that I'm not committing though, and that's because he's also being useless and therefore it's hard to tell for sure.
I'm still a little torn on whether the ATK claim is a good idea, so I don't have a problem with you pushing for it, but (4) the bolded shows a self-conscious/post pre-editting mentality that pings my scumdar.
(4) I edit and re-edit posts pretty often as both alignments.
(5) The first sentence sounds like your addendum will be "But if there's enough support for his lynch, I'll become sure." (6) The second sentence sounds like "I can see how Dante's post is scummy, but I know he's not 'actual scum', so I'll defend him for now."
(5) I meant it as "But maybe I'll understand later and can say either I agree or I feel it's bull*****."
(6) I feel like that claim doesn't make sense because it doesn't jive with the idea that I edit my posts, which you are definitely aware of.
(7) No specificity on the first, and the "reason" for the second one dissolves into a waffle.
(7) It's almost as though I don't always explain my reads, which has been the case for a long time. And yes, I do waffle. He's definitely scummy but there's a difference between actually scum and scummy, and I'd rather push a wagon on someone I think is scummier, particularly because in this game pushing wagons on someone is more permanent due to how attacks work.
(8) Again, no reason for why it pings you, but give it time and you'll find something more on him.
(8) Hopefully, yes. I don't have very many scumreads, so finding out he's scum would be pretty nice.
Again, nothing concrete, just "feels like Bur".
I mean that he's town from that.
I was seriously confused. (Seppel confirmed that the Day ends when everyone attacks.) (9) You sound pretty disappointed that you don't think you can get away with attacking me for this.
(9) I'm disappointed when I start to think I have a slam dunk reason for why someone is scum (I call it slam dunk because it's pretty close to Cyanity Check which is usually a pretty good tell) and it turns out to be bogus, yes. I like finding scum.
Is this serious?
Pretty ******* obvious that it's not, given that Meg is in this game.
(10) You're deflecting the reasons you're coming under attack onto another player, without naming your attackers (because then you'd be attacking them), and not showing how Sepi's post is similar to yours.
(10) I'm going to get hell for saying this but it was kind of joking. It's like, are people against only me saying this one line of reasoning, and not others? Is it my face?
But my face is Mamizou. Look at that cute face. I'd buy drugs from that face. Wait.
(11) Again, no specificity as to why he's scum for this post; just a "solid" read.
(11) I've been over this.
Why? What about that post makes you think he might be town/scum?
NOW you're asking the right questions! If you want to know my reads, this is the way about it, because you should know by now that I don't always give reasoning, particularly in big posts like that.
I feel that Arch was trying to leave himself an opening to not vote for Iso because he felt (strongly, as though he knew despite claiming otherwise) that it was scummy. However, part of me says this may be a reasonable response given Arch's skill level.
(12) "Hmm, maybe Dante's wagon doesn't have the support I thought it did." (Ok, I can see town saying what you said, but--AGAIN--no specifics.
(12) Do you want specifics? You're going to have to ask me to my face instead of making up what I'm saying and then immediately backtracking.
There are some good questions to people in that mix, but there's also a HUGE amount of vagueness and allusion. You're taking positions on players with no rationale so that it's easier to dismiss those reads later/reinforce them at your convenience.
Vote: Wheat
I'm a vague and allusive person. I'm more than happy to give out explanations, and moderately often I had post numbers along with so that it was reasonably obvious which post I did or didn't like. You make it sound like I'm not giving reasoning because I don't want to be tied down, when it's more true that I didn't give out reasoning because it's inconvenient in a large post.
I usually have a specific reason for saying something, pre-contrived or real, as both alignments. I don't always say it if I don't feel like I have to. All the points you've made against me are points that I just don't feel apply to me.
Oh god... please not another Cyanity check... pleas not another 3-4 days of waiting in order to get a half baked read that while correct will make me rage on you and tunnel until you die and mentally/emotionally scar the both of us into quitting this game entirely!!!!
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
@Sepi: I almost decided to not say Cyanity Check but I decided **** it, I'll say it and if anyone asks for a definition I'll just tell them to go **** themselves but in a way that doesn't get me infracted.
Now the real question is...it seems like you are trying to buddy me, and unlike a lot of players who buddy me because we're friends, I wouldn't really characterize you as a friend (no offense). So why?
Oh god... please not another Cyanity check... pleas not another 3-4 days of waiting in order to get a half baked read that while correct will make me rage on you and tunnel until you die and mentally/emotionally scar the both of us into quitting this game entirely!!!!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd imagine relatively high attack, relatively low speed (like, probably 1 unless he's really high level), relatively high HP.
I guess that means I feel like he has similar stats to what I imagine a Fighter has. Possibly he has more levels than a standard fighter, but probably not more than 2-3 more.
Now the real question is...it seems like you are trying to buddy me, and unlike a lot of players who buddy me because we're friends, I wouldn't really characterize you as a friend (no offense). So why?
No offense taken, we aren't friends in any sense of the word that i can think of, which is fine really.
As for why im being friendly well its a brand new game, i dont let past stuff stop me from having fun.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I may as well ask, Iso: what made you shoot so early when there is clearly tons of time in the Day for your mind to change/for you to regret your shot?
What's the benefit of rushing it?
@Cantrip: Don't you feel like your post 215 is confirmation biasing? I mean, no one makes a post that big and has ALL of their lines be scummy - whether as scum or town. You're picking out basically (or even literally?) every single thing and calling it scummy for one reason or another. I think you should take a step back and reevaluate that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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I'm willing to keep track of pseudo-votecounts for you guys, if you'd like. Please
CC me on all PMs to Seppeladd me to all your Role PM conversations with Seppel, if he doesn't beat you to it.VOTECOUNT
Chemtrails - 1 (KoolKoal)
Blindfaeth - 1 (Wheat_Grinder) <- as of the end of this post
Wheat_Grinder - 1 (RelmArrowny)
Sir Chris - 1 (Gentleman Johnny)
^I think I missed a few because I forgot in the middle of reading after page 2 and I'm not going to go back again, particularly if gan_dan says he will.
I feel like Chris is town.
Megiddo feels exactly like he did in The Wall.
I think I'm ultimately down for the ATK claim. HP is still hidden so it's not really obvious how much HP a player has, so I think the benefit to the scum is pretty lower.
Dante (38): I'm not sure why people want Dante killed yet. Yeah this is a scummy post but not an actual scum post.
Dante (41): Never mind, I'm starting to see it.
Dante (44): Yeah I'm really starting to dislike Dante. Far too self-aware, and I say that as the king of self-awareness. But as the king of self-awareness I'm not fully certain he's actually scum.
Mojito Fun's entrance (52) pings me but there's not enough there yet.
Blindfaeth (57): Completely ignores the reason someone might vote, and doesn't even wonder why, even though I hinted that I knew there wasn't voting and still wanted to vote anyway.
KK's response to Blindfaeth makes me feel good about KK.
Bur feels like standard Bur so probably town.
I'm a little worried by Cantrip not understanding the rules; it doesn't make sense to me that he wouldn't understand after reading it twice. But does the behavior indicate scum? ...I guess it doesn't. I'll be keeping an eye on him anyway though.
I think Chemtrails is a Megiddo alt.
Huntz bright bold shouting BREADCRUMBS makes him town.
Yep, the posts afterwards make me certain that Huntz is town.
I'm a little curious as to why people jumping on me didn't jump on Sepi for what's pretty much the same post I made.
Blindfaeth (100): I missed this on my earlier read or else it would have snapped me out of my reverie. Blindfaeth is scum.
Sepiriel (101): I pointed this out before by saying "r u ok" but this feels kinda forced. But it's Sepi so...no ball
Iso (105): I think this turned out not to be Iso's own line which is really damned unfortunate because it fits him perfectly.
Not sure how I feel about Arch's response to cantrip.
I'm starting to feel better that Dante is just new and trying really hard, rather than scum.
Chris's response to Sins is just *weird* but I'm pretty sure Chris was town from the start. I think I'm going to ignore it for now.
That said, I want to know what Sins sees in regards to Chris. Or what Iso sees in Chris, because I don't see it.
I like RA
146 (DCIII): Why do you think GJ is town for being sloppy?
193 (KJ): This is town KJ.
tl;dr: There are a lot of players I think are town, but only Blindfaeth feels scum so far.
I'm thinking I'll make my attack soon but I want more than one scumread first if possible.
Unvote, Vote: Blindfaeth
Seppel (and gan_dan) approached this thing fresh off an RPG setup that a) could've been broken open in the town's favor with a D1 fullclaim (to my recollection) and b) was methodically broken open by scum!Seppel when everyone claimed their "class" by gaming and exploiting player stats
no way in hell this setup is that exploitable by either side
that benefit is circumstantial and subject to the slightest lie or mistake
I'm looking at this and wondering how, in your mind, your stated pros and cons tip the balance in favor of the former
well there we go
use the quote box when you're quoting people
feeling slightly better about wheat for now but can't remember if he spills his thoughts out like that as scum
@Wheat
define town!KJ, if you would
re:Sepiriel, are you talking about the last line of #95? that doesn't ping me
oh wait, that is KK's plan verbatim, isn't it? I thought he was paraphrasing it
@KJ
you did actually read KK's post, right
it's a stupid plan anyway. see my original post on this topic.
I have no real leans so far in terms of who's what. Just trying to figure out who you all are and how you post
No... sorry... wrong reference..
(1) Here's what I hear, Wheat: "Look how helpful I'm being, even though a mod said he'd do this already; I don't want to miss out on my opportunity to show how helpful I am."
(2) You give no justification/reason on the former; (3) you give no indication of whether that makes Megiddo more likely to be town or scum (by letting us look it up ourselves, you paint Megiddo a certain way without actually committing to a read in print).
I'm still a little torn on whether the ATK claim is a good idea, so I don't have a problem with you pushing for it, but (4) the bolded shows a self-conscious/post pre-editting mentality that pings my scumdar.
(5) The first sentence sounds like your addendum will be "But if there's enough support for his lynch, I'll become sure." (6) The second sentence sounds like "I can see how Dante's post is scummy, but I know he's not 'actual scum', so I'll defend him for now."
(7) No specificity on the first, and the "reason" for the second one dissolves into a waffle.
(8) Again, no reason for why it pings you, but give it time and you'll find something more on him.
Again, nothing concrete, just "feels like Bur".
I was seriously confused. (Seppel confirmed that the Day ends when everyone attacks.) (9) You sound pretty disappointed that you don't think you can get away with attacking me for this.
Is this serious?
(10) You're deflecting the reasons you're coming under attack onto another player, without naming your attackers (because then you'd be attacking them), and not showing how Sepi's post is similar to yours.
(11) Again, no specificity as to why he's scum for this post; just a "solid" read.
Why? What about that post makes you think he might be town/scum?
(12) "Hmm, maybe Dante's wagon doesn't have the support I thought it did." (Ok, I can see town saying what you said, but--AGAIN--no specifics.
(13) Still no specificity.
There are some good questions to people in that mix, but there's also a HUGE amount of vagueness and allusion. You're taking positions on players with no rationale so that it's easier to dismiss those reads later/reinforce them at your convenience.
Vote: Wheat
I'd fake-vote wheat if my fake-vote wasn't busy attempting to expose a government conspiracy.
I hope one of those things you still want to respond to is me cantrip.
because I'm about to make another
In eeveelution, the scum were able to manipulate the vote count and act like they didn't care about votes later, hidden among townies who didn't care about following the agreed-upon vote rules.
I made it even worse by starting the trend of voting for all of my suspects, and soon everyone was voting for 3 or 4 people almost constantly and a full quarter the people were fair game to attack according to the rules we agreed upon at the start. (So even if you guys disagree with me on voting in general. We need a strict 1 vote-per-person policy.)
Wheat, when you respond to Cantrip, please answer my questions too -- I want to know what you see in KJ specifically
says the guy with a gimmick checker
knock yourself out, I care more about dodging my scum meta than town meta since I'm garbage town
1. HER
2. Why does it ping you, Wheat? Have you never wanted to say hello to everyone on a new site before?
My only mafia experience to date has been in real life, rather than forum-based, however there is quite a bit of that. I have probably played upwards of 90ish games total. Most of them were vanilla games with only a doc and a cop. 20 or so were Star Wars mafia games with a special role for everyone, but those were with a less competitive playgroup. Everyone knew all the roles going into the games, which tended to last around half an hour. I would say I had about a 20-70 mafia-town split, with an above-average win ratio. Most of the games I participated in were three years ago. The past few years I haven't gotten to play as much as I would like.
I have lurked enough on this forums that I am somewhat familiar with your terminology, but I haven't specifically followed any games.
In my previous metagame, town didn't lie. Ever. I've never encountered a false cop claim by a town before, so I assumed Cantrip was telling the truth or scum. Which to me seemed like we were approaching enough info to justify an attack, thus why I said to disregard my previous post advising caution.
This gambit seems to be pretty widely accepted here, judging from the reactions of others, but my perspective is that it's more likely to inspire reactions from the naive than the guilty.
What would everyone think of doing a partial mass attack-stat claim day one, but only if someone is attacked to the point of death? As the day will not end until everyone has attacked, we have the luxury of conversing so long as at least one person has not attacked. We could then have everyone who attacked the dead person claim their attack-stat, and be able to tell if there is a liar in the bunch because we should have the HP of the dead person from the role reveal. This would give us some of the benefits of knowing others attack stats while also hopefully forcing the scum to be honest. If the scum are not honest, we know that there is a scum in the group of attackers. This doesn't narrow it down that much, but it could be useful down the road as people in that group die and give us certain information about their role.
this is reasonable
having played on a few sites, I can say town reaction gambits are more common here -- and you're right, it often doesn't work unless the gambit is looking for something specific
we're not getting HP from reveal, though
I was pretty sure it was Az...
I could be way off base...
We all post the same way, by typing on a keyboard...
Which one of us?
Chemtrails?
That HP is based off of fixed formulas utilizing class and levels? Like in a normal RPG?
why would you think I would think your play is jester-like?
I don't think max HP is consistent with anything, and Seppel is anti-flavor-gamability anyway
I wouldn't. That's why I asked. It was just the fact that I was talking about you.
95 isn't 100, and there's no rush. So I'd rather wait until I'm either 100% or we're closer to deadline, since unlike votes, you can't take back your attack.
Cantrip's posts are boring
I like Hans for town.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about Iso's super early shot. I don't find it indicative of alignment, but I was still expecting more of a reaction than what we got.
@Wheat: What about Chris makes you think he was town from the start?
I was thinking the same thing, but I chalked it up to the fact that it's Iso. People are less surprised by his antics.
Plus I have recently watched him blow his wad a little early.... here
A huge chunk of my analyzing prowess comes from votecount and wagon interactions. Given that I don't plan to vote at all for this entire game (and I'm sure I'm not the only one), the best way to gauge a player's intent is to see who, how, and when they attack. I wanted to see if I could spur any itchy trigger finger players into attacking. Apparently I could not, despite a few people agreeing with me RE: DCIII's post. Which leads me to my next concern: DCIII agreed with my easy scum reads, but then Blindfaeth sort of wrote off DCIII after I attacked DCIII. That makes me think that DCIII might be town and Blindfaeth more likely to be scum, but I seem to recall an interaction earlier that made them possible scumbuddies. That said, I think the former is more likely, and why Faeth's post was the only reason I'd have attacked him over DCIII at that point.
Basically, I'm not used to people agreeing with me about certain things so early on, and I also don't like the way Faeth slings mud and discredits without following things through. It's a prime scum tactic - especially in this type of game, as that's how I caught Seppel in Eeveelution. Seppel basically said, "Hey, Tordeck is lying and/or scum because of (X), because I'm also Leafeon and know what his choices could have been" or something to that effect, and then other people attacked Tordeck instead of Seppel.
Basically, I think that if everyone focuses fire on Faeth that we'll at least have 1 body before Day 1 ends. Which is good. Especially since I think it's a scum body.
did you mean: 106
You should be. I guessed it correctly without a gimmick check.
Have you ever seen a game with Huntzilla in it, before?
I disagree. I think there's going to be uniformity across the classes.
I was hoping for something a little more than what we got, obviously.
-
Also, someone said something about me saying something about Chris? I don't think I've said anything about Chris in this game...
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
First of all, I didn't actually see that gan_dan had offered until the end. In addition, this point has never been true against me as far back as STMU2, my very first game, wherein Seppel tried to call me scum for doing the same thing when Rax wasn't getting up votecounts reasonably fast.
(2) I don't always give justifications/reasons. This has been true for a long time.
(3) I think Meg is more likely town because he sounds just like the Wall. You're right that I'm not committing though, and that's because he's also being useless and therefore it's hard to tell for sure.
(4) I edit and re-edit posts pretty often as both alignments.
(5) I meant it as "But maybe I'll understand later and can say either I agree or I feel it's bull*****."
(6) I feel like that claim doesn't make sense because it doesn't jive with the idea that I edit my posts, which you are definitely aware of.
(7) It's almost as though I don't always explain my reads, which has been the case for a long time. And yes, I do waffle. He's definitely scummy but there's a difference between actually scum and scummy, and I'd rather push a wagon on someone I think is scummier, particularly because in this game pushing wagons on someone is more permanent due to how attacks work.
(8) Hopefully, yes. I don't have very many scumreads, so finding out he's scum would be pretty nice.
I mean that he's town from that.
(9) I'm disappointed when I start to think I have a slam dunk reason for why someone is scum (I call it slam dunk because it's pretty close to Cyanity Check which is usually a pretty good tell) and it turns out to be bogus, yes. I like finding scum.
Pretty ******* obvious that it's not, given that Meg is in this game.
(10) I'm going to get hell for saying this but it was kind of joking. It's like, are people against only me saying this one line of reasoning, and not others? Is it my face?
But my face is Mamizou. Look at that cute face. I'd buy drugs from that face. Wait.
(11) I've been over this.
NOW you're asking the right questions! If you want to know my reads, this is the way about it, because you should know by now that I don't always give reasoning, particularly in big posts like that.
I feel that Arch was trying to leave himself an opening to not vote for Iso because he felt (strongly, as though he knew despite claiming otherwise) that it was scummy. However, part of me says this may be a reasonable response given Arch's skill level.
(12) Do you want specifics? You're going to have to ask me to my face instead of making up what I'm saying and then immediately backtracking.
I'm a vague and allusive person. I'm more than happy to give out explanations, and moderately often I had post numbers along with so that it was reasonably obvious which post I did or didn't like. You make it sound like I'm not giving reasoning because I don't want to be tied down, when it's more true that I didn't give out reasoning because it's inconvenient in a large post.
I usually have a specific reason for saying something, pre-contrived or real, as both alignments. I don't always say it if I don't feel like I have to. All the points you've made against me are points that I just don't feel apply to me.
It's one of the defining characteristics of how I play in general.
KJ is really badly scummy as scum. Conversely, he makes pretty good points as town.
Damn, I've been found out.
I feel like I might have missed a question; I only saw the KJ question. If I missed any, please ask them again.
It's similar to Dante's entrance. Something about it seems particularly forced, but forced posts can also come from new town.
I think Chemtrails is a JeY_K alt.
He's making opinions early, which fits how I would characterize his town play.
I meant the one where you said you were brilliant in relation to swordchucks.
I feel like I remember you stating you thought he was scum.
Now the real question is...it seems like you are trying to buddy me, and unlike a lot of players who buddy me because we're friends, I wouldn't really characterize you as a friend (no offense). So why?
please provide content soon
that is 106
I think you're wrong.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I guess that means I feel like he has similar stats to what I imagine a Fighter has. Possibly he has more levels than a standard fighter, but probably not more than 2-3 more.
As for why im being friendly well its a brand new game, i dont let past stuff stop me from having fun.
him parroting KK is "making pretty good points as town" to you?
yeah: you called out a Sepiriel post as being similar to yours, and I think you were referring to #95 -- what do you see in that?
don't really care as long as he's required to say "I, GARLAND, WILL KNOCK YOU ALL DOWN" before he does anything
but I'm assuming high max HP
What's the benefit of rushing it?
@Cantrip: Don't you feel like your post 215 is confirmation biasing? I mean, no one makes a post that big and has ALL of their lines be scummy - whether as scum or town. You're picking out basically (or even literally?) every single thing and calling it scummy for one reason or another. I think you should take a step back and reevaluate that.
I'm pretty sure I already said this
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player