@Not A Gimmick
I'd still like that Hunt town case too.
Oh right.
I already made the point of matowar talking about huntzilla like he was town, but beyond that I just haven't seen a reason to think he is scum.
Sure, there's POE or whatever. But he was just exuding good sense.
I have read some huntzilla, and I think it is fairly agreed that this game represents a drastic departure from his previous style.
The question becomes why choose to make that switch when replacing into a game as wolf?
I really thought either ghosting or brinatoo would be dead by now.
Especially brinatoo. Even his breadcrumbed role is wolfish.
I'll be around for a little bit reading atogaholic if anyone has any direct questions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Re:Brinatoo, how do you feel about lynching him? He's at L-2 now and was just at L-1. Do you think he's likely scum and you just want Ghosting first? Could he be aligned with Jobie/Atog?
So let me get this straight, Seppel lied about perma invincibility- it was a one shot. Ghosting did take the item and Seppel confirms that still? So the charge was at 0 when Ghosting got it and would have to have recharged in N2 for it to be useful or pass it to someone(assuming he isn't lying about the ammo clip too) so he could be immune right now? I'm weary of the situation and dislike Seppel wanting to lynch regardless of alignment if it's recharged. I thought I remembered reading at some point Ghosting implied he had another separate item which would mean that he spent the night not recharging the laptop and is still vulnerable.
I'm also willing to lynch Atogaholic.
I want Ghosting to pass the laptop to one of myself, Silver or NAG tonight. Either random.org it, or pick one, it doesn't matter. Just don't publicize the pass.
Today is the last day (probably) all of myself/Silver/NAG/GJ will be alive.
I want to lynch mafia, I don't want to take the apathetic route and lynch the SK who isn't going to be killing anyone if he wants any prayer at all of winning.
I want people to put in some work and go back through the game, and get some conviction on who is mafia.
If you want to lynch Ghosting tomorrow after we hit mafia (or town) today, whatever. I won't fight it much. But it's dumb not to at least take the chance to get the kill protection item into town hands.
Brinatoo is probably scum for pushing that so hard when it's mechanically a poor idea. Ghosting is not the biggest threat to town - the scum team is. As they're actually killing us.
Ghosting is a role that can effectively screw us over and lose to scum faster. He could absolutely be lying about the alt-win con+ everything he has been lying about up to this point. Since I'm town I'm worried of that possibility and want it gone.
Reading this last page has made me lose all desire to lynch Ghosting. vote: Brinatoo
WIFOM
Claim: The Town Governor Russian Scientist
Got a item that can stop a lynch as long as it's at L-1 preventing a lynch on them for the rest of that Day
Flavor talks about how I was sick about the working conditions surrounding Janus and one day had an opportunity to hold the facility hostage with a grenade(item) and threatened to essentially blow up the place. Got away and still paranoid I'm not safe.
There's also something else about the item I'm not going to claim because the reward far outweighs the risk even if I'm mislynched for it. Don't ask me about it unless you want my wrath.
My reads haven't changed from a couple of pages ago and I can't think of anything to do/talk about that already hasn't been analyzed by multiple people. So to call me out for lack of content/reads without giving me something to comment on isn't helping me.
GJ: To be totally honest, I didn't realize you guys die together lol. I think that part was said during my v/la and I must not have caught it.
Regardless, I can't kill anyone or I'm the guaranteed lynch. Additionally, killing people just makes my alternate win condition impossible. And if I don't prove that, I'm also a guaranteed lynch. At this point, I am merely a puppet of the town.
I do almost want Brin to full claim though because his flavour sounds psychotic/aggressive:
"Flavor talks about how I was sick about the working conditions surrounding Janus and one day had an opportunity to hold the facility hostage with a grenade(item) and threatened to essentially blow up the place. Got away and still paranoid."
Threatens to blow up, still paranoid, doesn't want to full claim the item.
I know we can prove his role but, I'm not so certain he's town.
- I.. think I believe Brinatoo's claim? I believed it when I read it on my phone yesterday, but then I reread it again and got a bit paranoid of it due to the fact we have so many roles than interfere with the lynch. Then I remembered his fixture on L-1 earlier on in Day 2 and I'm hesitantly willing to believe it.
The question for me is then - if Brinatoo isn't scum, then who is? Hunt/Hunger/Togs?
I'll do a reread of Hunt tomorrow and check Matowar interactions to solidify my reads in this game after being on vacation for a pretty good chunk of time, but I'll answer Bloscovi's questions to me right now.
Quote from Blos »
You know Atogaholic better than anyone else in this game. I'm not sure if you're fully back from V/LA or not, but can you please chime in on:
A) His play this game
2) The mindset he'd have to have
C) The contrast between the replace in here and the replace in in Off the Grid
4) Whether or not you think he can be aligned with Brinatoo
His play is something I would expect from both of Togs's alignments, but I am slightly leaning towards him being scum. Here's why: Togs as both alignments when playing an MTGS game is pretty lazy, and I've never seen him 100% fully dialed into a MTGS game. (I can pull some games where he has been engaged and active, but they're games with 24/48 hour Day phases, and he was town in both of them). Adding onto that, he replaced into two huge games at once with long deadlines, so it would make more sense for him to focus on one versus the other.
The reason why I'm leaning scum on him this game is because his catchup is so generic, and he's buddying me hard, which are pretty characteristic traits of his scum game. He's usually a bit more wary of me when he's town - he actually lead a mislynch on me off-site, heh. Like you said - Togs has made zero effort to discern other people's alignments or to help other people get any read on his slot. However, the cons to this is that I can totally just see town!Togs being lazy and coasting through this game because we have two dead scum already.
One of the things that makes me think twice about him being scum though is this:
Quote from Kraj »
Regarding a not-me Vig: Matowar seems a fine choice to me. I still think the scum is likely lurking, as that's a tried and true method, and I don't have a solid behavior scumread on anyone. A very large portion of Matowar's posts have been 'helpful townie' or commenting about the game instead of real content. Jobie and IAMB have been similarly lurky; Jobie's posts seem to have more content but I don't get a good vibe from his posts. I don't think IMAB's 'good guy' breadcrumb means anything when we've established PM's contain a variety of language and some people aren't even sure of their own alignments, and I've seen little else from him except to say his breadcrumb makes him town.
Would Kraj really name two of his scumbuddies when he is asking to be vigged? I mean, sure, if Kraj is a savvy enough scum player he can theoretically pour wine down the drain, but traditionally scum usually name two townies/one scum, and with Matowar flipped and imab flipping town, my gut kind of says that Togs has to be town?
I know this is confusing given that I said he was leaning scum above, but it's a case of "my brain thinks he is scum, but my gut is thinking that he'll flip apathetic town" if that makes sense.
Sorry if this was way too rambly, btw. I mean to reply to your first question but jet lag got the better of me. Let me know if you want any more clarification regarding Atogaholic.
Just want you to walk your way through the gamestate and try to solve today.
There's two flipped scum, and you've been coasting hardcore ever since Kraj was shot. Time to fix that. I've been defending you more than I'm comfortable doing, because I think you're town, and I don't want to give scum an easy mislynch - but this isn't WH14. There's nowhere near that certainty of having the game on lock. Need to put in work, and remove yourself from being a mislynch option down the road at same time.
Unless you're scum. Ignore this post entirely if that's the case
Haven't you learned your lesson by now that ***** that messes with the lynch is terrible?
This is why I'm really tired of playing in Iso games over the past two or three years or so. Every large-ish game I've seen Iso design (Iji, Predator, Classic) there's always some design element that makes me boil with rage. With Iji, it's the fact that there were four mafia that had the potential to gain extra kills, two neutrals, and a role that messed with all the vig shot coordination. With Classic, it's mostly about the two mafia teams and the two neutral hitmen that definitely did not need to be there. With Predator it was mainly about the archetypical theme of protective roles, though glancing back the setup wasn't as egregious as I thought it was.
This game, with two neutral lover survivors, a serial killer, items, multiple lynch-affecting roles, and maybe three to four mafia - all while being labeled as a Normal - is just making me get on my wit's end here. There's only so much mechanical gaming I can take, and I like my Normals to be.. normal.
This was not really what I expected a Normal to be, and this setup kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth, coming in for my first Normal in like two years or something. I'm sure I'll learn more once I see the full setup or something, but just blegh.
I'm not commenting on most of the setup, because of <redacted>. But the lynch stuff is not cool. If it's even true.
Because like - is there a reason not to just...test Brinatoo's item? How does it work? Does he activate it at L-1 and there's a public notification that he can't be lynched? Does it use up our lynch the way Seppel's item did?
I still don't fully grasp what Seppel's laptop does, heh.
And I'm wary of going after the Brinatoo/Seppel/Hunger mechanical dichotomy based off of Iso's anti modgaming measures.
---
Oops I missed your two above posts. I'll respond to you tomorrow when I'm done being jet lagged.
I plan on talking through my reads and such, fully re-evaluate the game state if I have time, since my motivation to actually sit down and play mafia is pretty high after two sickening losses where I was basically the mafia MVP as town.
Brinatoo said he wanted to wait until toMorrow to use his item. I'd rather he didn't govern the known SK's lynch, and it probably doesn't work if he self hammers I guess.
I'm sort of LA until tomorrow, posting on mobile so isos, quoting, etc is a bit of a pain. Sorry.
@NaG: You want to keep Ghosting alive for the moment, correct? Would you be willing to lynch Togs toDay and let Brinatoo govern the lynch toMorrow?
Hey Brin, speaking of giving you nothing to comment on, maybe you could answer my questions? I asked them twice.
We can easily prove Brinatoo's role so there is no reason to lynch him right now.
Onwards with Atog! Unvote, Vote Atog
Well I answered your questions, and for the ones that you asked concerning my lynch opinions, you can refer to my reads a few pages back, they haven't changed aside from my opinion on Atog continues to tank with this play.
I do almost want Brin to full claim though because his flavour sounds psychotic/aggressive:
"Flavor talks about how I was sick about the working conditions surrounding Janus and one day had an opportunity to hold the facility hostage with a grenade(item) and threatened to essentially blow up the place. Got away and still paranoid."
Threatens to blow up, still paranoid, doesn't want to full claim the item.
I know we can prove his role but, I'm not so certain he's town.
Your name is just Russian Scientist?
Just Russian Scientist, I brought it up soon after the Vanilla A-C stuff after that I don't have an A or B, which since noone has brought it up since, I'm inclined to believe I'm the only scientist.
I'm not commenting on most of the setup, because of <redacted>. But the lynch stuff is not cool. If it's even true.
Because like - is there a reason not to just...test Brinatoo's item? How does it work? Does he activate it at L-1 and there's a public notification that he can't be lynched? Does it use up our lynch the way Seppel's item did?
Yea it would need to be activated at L-1, which is why the L-1 on top of it makes it difficult to pull off without votecounts being plentiful. And the day doesn't end. Iso said via PM there would be a public notification that whoever I use the item on can't be lynched for that Day.
Brinatoo said he wanted to wait until toMorrow to use his item. I'd rather he didn't govern the known SK's lynch, and it probably doesn't work if he self hammers I guess.
I'm sort of LA until tomorrow, posting on mobile so isos, quoting, etc is a bit of a pain. Sorry.
@NaG: You want to keep Ghosting alive for the moment, correct? Would you be willing to lynch Togs toDay and let Brinatoo govern the lynch toMorrow?
Can you reclarify what you mean by the bolded? I'm not sure what is confusing you about my item but I have no idea what that bolded is getting at.
unvote vote Atogaholic to hammer or not if L-1 doesn't apply, I'm done with this WIFOM and would like to move on with this game.
This lynch is
Still nothing to say about it.
I'm just gonna go ahead and Unvote
Vote atogaholic
No reason to wait any longer.
I would like to know the reason people have different thresholds, but iso has already shown that he puts up the votecount that actually leads to a lynch.
If you're actually town, I'm seriously disappointed with your lack of effort.
Borderline disgusted. You replaced into what was functionally a null slot because that slot hadn't posted, and proceeded to also not post and just passively accept lynch.
Ugh.
Even a fraction of effort and attempt to solve the game would have possibly prevented your lynch.
No, it's about right on target, my performance this game was pretty pathetic. I was a bit more confident in myself after completing some offsite games, but I got too greedy trying to replace into 2 games at once and ended up barely catching up and not posting much in either of them. I apologize to all of you guys and to Iso for that.
I am town. Coloring in the flipped/dead players for the purpose of votal analysis.
Gentleman Johnny and not a gimmick are the lover survivors. Highly doubt any of them are scum, but Gentleman Johnny has a vigilante shot, while not a gimmick's play earlier in Day 1 was extremely townie. GJ's timing of his claim makes sense, as well as not a gimmick's decreasing activity once he found out that he was indeed neutral. Both of them are not scum regardless.
Ditto with Ghosting. He is the serial killer and not scum. We will lynch him down the road at some point, so he is effectively self resolving.
Alright, got the easy stuff out of the way. Now have to look for scum in these seven names.
Silvercrys (and Bloscovi, but I'll get to that later) is probably the only true consensus townread in the game. He's active, engaged, and has probably one of the best replacement performances I have ever seen. I think that Matowar's confusion over voting them in RVS indicates unaligned pairs in any case, because scum would not remember their scumbuddies, but Silvercrys is an easy town read anyways due to his behavior. There's not much to say other than that though; he's been 100% dialed into the game and I've agreed with most of his analysis, specifically his analysis of the Matowar interactions.
I am still slightly paranoid of Bloscovi since he's still alive, but I'm just rereading miles and miles of his townie behavior and I'd be extremely surprised if he did flip scum. I don't have the best grasp of Bloscovi's scum range, but this game is probably a little bit out of it? He's been actively working to solve the game with every post that he makes, and I really don't think that he would just be apathetic to the Matowar lynch - like what Blosvovi said about me, I'd expect that Bloscovi would try to get some sort of credit for it, not just place him in the "uhh yeah idk he's super scummy but there's things that I struggle to see new scum posting in Matowar's scenario". Plus, this interaction here reeks of Matowar trying to drag Bloscovi down a peg:
Quote from Matowar77 »
@Proph... again Why is Bloscovi so high on your T/S list? Would you not consider any of the earlier interactions an attempt at buddying?
Two or one scum in five names. I like these odds.
Tentatively clearing Brinatoo here, mostly for mechanics I think. I know this is super sketchy and hypocritical, but I did a PBPA of Brinatoo's posts earlier this game and I got a townread based on his posts back then. Recent events, such as Ghosting being not-mafia, changed this and placed more emphasis on Brinatoo's opportunistic wagon hops, but I don't think he is scum with the item he claimed - mostly because of his fixture of how his item works and his worry about all the wagons being at L-1. If scum!Brinatoo has this item, I don't think he'd worry so much about the wagons, he'd probably just use it to make a scumbuddy unlynchable or something. If Brinatoo's being truthful, however, I struggle to see scum with the item. It's just way too strong in the hands of scum.
Ditto with Seppel. I'll probably put PBPAing Seppel next on my to-do list since I don't remember much of what he's done recently other than heavily scumread Matowar, which is a plus?
I have a difficult time seeing scum be unlynchable, and we just tried to lynch Seppel Day 1.
Quote from Kraj »
Seppel then claims Boris, a character that flavor-wise should obviously be mafia. Again, he does this unprompted and his reasoning makes sense, and I'm inclined to believe him.
This piece of reasoning is "Hi, I'm scum, and I want to get the obvious townies out of the way when I'm listing reads" which is yet another point in favor of Seppel. He's probably town more often than not just due to his unlynchableness, and the fact that the reasoning I've listed out contains nothing as to why he might be possible scum.
Atogaholic will self resolve himself here, so yeah. If he's scum then we lynch Ghosting and win the game, though I'm betting that he flips vanilla town and we have to resolve the Hunger/Huntzilla mess Tomorrow.
To answer this question:
Quote from Bloscovi »
If you had to lynch both mafia members in the next two lynches, or lose, who do you want dead?
Hunt/Hunger would be the two people I would lynch, and coincidentally, the two people I want to reread the most when we get into Night.
Huntzilla was pretty townie/competent Day 1, but I am really struggling to remember any his posts recently. Recency bias yeah, but there was also Seppel's spiel about how competent!Huntzilla tends to be scum!Huntzilla. I don't know how much I believe that, since Hunt's last two scum games were kind of lousy (he got lynched Day 1 in both games, and I struggle to see him improve this much as scum). There's also the fact that he actually went and looked at the off-site game Bloscovi and I were in, but I don't know, that can possibly come from scum as well. I'm not exactly the most convinced by Hunt being scum, as you can see, but PoE is there.
And there's Hunger. Hunger doesn't /feel/ like scum!Hunger to me, but once again, he's just mostly here due to PoE. I liked the conviction in his case against Seppel, but he simply just.. hasn't been Town enough. Most of his stuff is inherently fakeable, even though I wouldn't necessary scumread him for it.
It's a bit worrying that I have zero conviction against either of these two people, but.. the scum this game have been mostly shrug lynches? Kraj was someone in the PoE that was vig shot, and he turned out to be mafia. Matowar was in the PoE as well and was caught due to some random night action nonsense, and he was scum.
I'll need to follow this up with rereads on (first) Huntzilla and Hunger, to which I will try to get to during Night. Maybe I can cram a reread of Seppel, but that might be a stretch.
Why is everyone so trustful of Brinatoo's claim ? It seems to overlap heavily with the laptop which is just suspicious. And I also recently completed a game on this site where I fakeclaimed governor as scum as well..
All I ask for is lynch immunity tomorrow if I do it, but I am down to do it. One of Seppel, Hunger, and Brinatoo has to be scum, in my opinion. There's no way town has that many protective roles, and we know Seppel's laptop is real.
I don't know if we want to kill the claimed Governor though. I'd rather Ghosting shot Hunger, Seppel, or Huntz and let Brinatoo confirm himself toMorrow personally. Or just pass the laptop instead.
@Togs:
I mean, if he hammers someone and they die anyway we can lynch him the next day. Plus he's been breadcrumbing that something happens if he hammers almost all game. And I doubt scum has a governor in a normal on top of all the other crazy in this game.
Pass Silver the gun tonight if you still have it.
I think he claimed to have an Ammo Clip (correct me if I'm wrong, Silver)
I already made the point of matowar talking about huntzilla like he was town, but beyond that I just haven't seen a reason to think he is scum.
Sure, there's POE or whatever. But he was just exuding good sense.
I have read some huntzilla, and I think it is fairly agreed that this game represents a drastic departure from his previous style.
The question becomes why choose to make that switch when replacing into a game as wolf?
I really thought either ghosting or brinatoo would be dead by now.
Especially brinatoo. Even his breadcrumbed role is wolfish.
I'll be around for a little bit reading atogaholic if anyone has any direct questions.
You know Atogaholic better than anyone else in this game. I'm not sure if you're fully back from V/LA or not, but can you please chime in on:
A) His play this game
2) The mindset he'd have to have
C) The contrast between the replace in here and the replace in in Off the Grid
4) Whether or not you think he can be aligned with Brinatoo.
Ghosting is a role that can effectively screw us over and lose to scum faster. He could absolutely be lying about the alt-win con+ everything he has been lying about up to this point. Since I'm town I'm worried of that possibility and want it gone. WIFOM
Claim: The Town Governor Russian Scientist
Got a item that can stop a lynch as long as it's at L-1 preventing a lynch on them for the rest of that Day
Flavor talks about how I was sick about the working conditions surrounding Janus and one day had an opportunity to hold the facility hostage with a grenade(item) and threatened to essentially blow up the place. Got away and still paranoid I'm not safe.
There's also something else about the item I'm not going to claim because the reward far outweighs the risk even if I'm mislynched for it. Don't ask me about it unless you want my wrath.
My reads haven't changed from a couple of pages ago and I can't think of anything to do/talk about that already hasn't been analyzed by multiple people. So to call me out for lack of content/reads without giving me something to comment on isn't helping me.
We can easily prove Brinatoo's role so there is no reason to lynch him right now.
Onwards with Atog!
Unvote, Vote Atog
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Regardless, I can't kill anyone or I'm the guaranteed lynch. Additionally, killing people just makes my alternate win condition impossible. And if I don't prove that, I'm also a guaranteed lynch. At this point, I am merely a puppet of the town.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
"Flavor talks about how I was sick about the working conditions surrounding Janus and one day had an opportunity to hold the facility hostage with a grenade(item) and threatened to essentially blow up the place. Got away and still paranoid."
Threatens to blow up, still paranoid, doesn't want to full claim the item.
I know we can prove his role but, I'm not so certain he's town.
Your name is just Russian Scientist?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Iso, why.
Haven't you learned your lesson by now that ***** that messes with the lynch is terrible?
I find it hard to believe town has the laptop + this as well. :/
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I'll start actively playing again in a bit.
- I.. think I believe Brinatoo's claim? I believed it when I read it on my phone yesterday, but then I reread it again and got a bit paranoid of it due to the fact we have so many roles than interfere with the lynch. Then I remembered his fixture on L-1 earlier on in Day 2 and I'm hesitantly willing to believe it.
The question for me is then - if Brinatoo isn't scum, then who is? Hunt/Hunger/Togs?
I'll do a reread of Hunt tomorrow and check Matowar interactions to solidify my reads in this game after being on vacation for a pretty good chunk of time, but I'll answer Bloscovi's questions to me right now.
His play is something I would expect from both of Togs's alignments, but I am slightly leaning towards him being scum. Here's why: Togs as both alignments when playing an MTGS game is pretty lazy, and I've never seen him 100% fully dialed into a MTGS game. (I can pull some games where he has been engaged and active, but they're games with 24/48 hour Day phases, and he was town in both of them). Adding onto that, he replaced into two huge games at once with long deadlines, so it would make more sense for him to focus on one versus the other.
The reason why I'm leaning scum on him this game is because his catchup is so generic, and he's buddying me hard, which are pretty characteristic traits of his scum game. He's usually a bit more wary of me when he's town - he actually lead a mislynch on me off-site, heh. Like you said - Togs has made zero effort to discern other people's alignments or to help other people get any read on his slot. However, the cons to this is that I can totally just see town!Togs being lazy and coasting through this game because we have two dead scum already.
One of the things that makes me think twice about him being scum though is this:
Would Kraj really name two of his scumbuddies when he is asking to be vigged? I mean, sure, if Kraj is a savvy enough scum player he can theoretically pour wine down the drain, but traditionally scum usually name two townies/one scum, and with Matowar flipped and imab flipping town, my gut kind of says that Togs has to be town?
I know this is confusing given that I said he was leaning scum above, but it's a case of "my brain thinks he is scum, but my gut is thinking that he'll flip apathetic town" if that makes sense.
Sorry if this was way too rambly, btw. I mean to reply to your first question but jet lag got the better of me. Let me know if you want any more clarification regarding Atogaholic.
If you had to lynch both mafia members in the next two lynches, or lose, who do you want dead?
Take your time, read through things, and answer, with detail.
Yes, we're ahead, but complacency can't happen, when there's 3 neutrals to deal with. Numbers can swing away from town favor in an awful hurry.
Just want you to walk your way through the gamestate and try to solve today.
There's two flipped scum, and you've been coasting hardcore ever since Kraj was shot. Time to fix that. I've been defending you more than I'm comfortable doing, because I think you're town, and I don't want to give scum an easy mislynch - but this isn't WH14. There's nowhere near that certainty of having the game on lock. Need to put in work, and remove yourself from being a mislynch option down the road at same time.
Unless you're scum. Ignore this post entirely if that's the case
This is why I'm really tired of playing in Iso games over the past two or three years or so. Every large-ish game I've seen Iso design (Iji, Predator, Classic) there's always some design element that makes me boil with rage. With Iji, it's the fact that there were four mafia that had the potential to gain extra kills, two neutrals, and a role that messed with all the vig shot coordination. With Classic, it's mostly about the two mafia teams and the two neutral hitmen that definitely did not need to be there. With Predator it was mainly about the archetypical theme of protective roles, though glancing back the setup wasn't as egregious as I thought it was.
This game, with two neutral lover survivors, a serial killer, items, multiple lynch-affecting roles, and maybe three to four mafia - all while being labeled as a Normal - is just making me get on my wit's end here. There's only so much mechanical gaming I can take, and I like my Normals to be.. normal.
This was not really what I expected a Normal to be, and this setup kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth, coming in for my first Normal in like two years or something. I'm sure I'll learn more once I see the full setup or something, but just blegh.
Because like - is there a reason not to just...test Brinatoo's item? How does it work? Does he activate it at L-1 and there's a public notification that he can't be lynched? Does it use up our lynch the way Seppel's item did?
I still don't fully grasp what Seppel's laptop does, heh.
And I'm wary of going after the Brinatoo/Seppel/Hunger mechanical dichotomy based off of Iso's anti modgaming measures.
---
Oops I missed your two above posts. I'll respond to you tomorrow when I'm done being jet lagged.
I plan on talking through my reads and such, fully re-evaluate the game state if I have time, since my motivation to actually sit down and play mafia is pretty high after two sickening losses where I was basically the mafia MVP as town.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Brinatoo said he wanted to wait until toMorrow to use his item. I'd rather he didn't govern the known SK's lynch, and it probably doesn't work if he self hammers I guess.
I'm sort of LA until tomorrow, posting on mobile so isos, quoting, etc is a bit of a pain. Sorry.
@NaG: You want to keep Ghosting alive for the moment, correct? Would you be willing to lynch Togs toDay and let Brinatoo govern the lynch toMorrow?
Unvote
Vote Atog
Nothing else to comment on at the moment.
unvote vote Atogaholic to hammer or not if L-1 doesn't apply, I'm done with this WIFOM and would like to move on with this game.
Awaiting vote count/lynch scene.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Brinatoo (2): not_a_gimmick, Atogaholic
Ghosting (3): Brinatoo, Gentleman Johnny, Seppel
Atogaholic (5): Silvercrys, Bloscovi, Ghosting, Huntzilla, Brinatoo
Not Voting: Hunger, Prophylaxis
I reiterate, pass Silver the gun tonight. He has an ammo clip. Just in case you aren't following along too closely.
Gun to my head, I think Togs flips town, but I'm nowhere near certain of that. Just trusting my gut based off of that Kraj interaction.
Okay, sounds good.
Does anyone have any item they can pass to me? I don't care what it is, if it has no uses, etc; I just want an item.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Are you trying to make me scum read you?
Still nothing to say about it.
I'm just gonna go ahead and
Unvote
Vote atogaholic
No reason to wait any longer.
I would like to know the reason people have different thresholds, but iso has already shown that he puts up the votecount that actually leads to a lynch.
This seems fairly important to me.
@brinatoo if this isn't explicitly said in your role pm, please ask iso tonight. Let us know.
See you guys tomorrow.
Borderline disgusted. You replaced into what was functionally a null slot because that slot hadn't posted, and proceeded to also not post and just passively accept lynch.
Ugh.
Even a fraction of effort and attempt to solve the game would have possibly prevented your lynch.
I am town. Coloring in the flipped/dead players for the purpose of votal analysis.
Gentleman Johnny and not a gimmick are the lover survivors. Highly doubt any of them are scum, but Gentleman Johnny has a vigilante shot, while not a gimmick's play earlier in Day 1 was extremely townie. GJ's timing of his claim makes sense, as well as not a gimmick's decreasing activity once he found out that he was indeed neutral. Both of them are not scum regardless.
Ditto with Ghosting. He is the serial killer and not scum. We will lynch him down the road at some point, so he is effectively self resolving.
Alright, got the easy stuff out of the way. Now have to look for scum in these seven names.
Silvercrys (and Bloscovi, but I'll get to that later) is probably the only true consensus townread in the game. He's active, engaged, and has probably one of the best replacement performances I have ever seen. I think that Matowar's confusion over voting them in RVS indicates unaligned pairs in any case, because scum would not remember their scumbuddies, but Silvercrys is an easy town read anyways due to his behavior. There's not much to say other than that though; he's been 100% dialed into the game and I've agreed with most of his analysis, specifically his analysis of the Matowar interactions.
I am still slightly paranoid of Bloscovi since he's still alive, but I'm just rereading miles and miles of his townie behavior and I'd be extremely surprised if he did flip scum. I don't have the best grasp of Bloscovi's scum range, but this game is probably a little bit out of it? He's been actively working to solve the game with every post that he makes, and I really don't think that he would just be apathetic to the Matowar lynch - like what Blosvovi said about me, I'd expect that Bloscovi would try to get some sort of credit for it, not just place him in the "uhh yeah idk he's super scummy but there's things that I struggle to see new scum posting in Matowar's scenario". Plus, this interaction here reeks of Matowar trying to drag Bloscovi down a peg:
Two or one scum in five names. I like these odds.
Tentatively clearing Brinatoo here, mostly for mechanics I think. I know this is super sketchy and hypocritical, but I did a PBPA of Brinatoo's posts earlier this game and I got a townread based on his posts back then. Recent events, such as Ghosting being not-mafia, changed this and placed more emphasis on Brinatoo's opportunistic wagon hops, but I don't think he is scum with the item he claimed - mostly because of his fixture of how his item works and his worry about all the wagons being at L-1. If scum!Brinatoo has this item, I don't think he'd worry so much about the wagons, he'd probably just use it to make a scumbuddy unlynchable or something. If Brinatoo's being truthful, however, I struggle to see scum with the item. It's just way too strong in the hands of scum.
Ditto with Seppel. I'll probably put PBPAing Seppel next on my to-do list since I don't remember much of what he's done recently other than heavily scumread Matowar, which is a plus?
I have a difficult time seeing scum be unlynchable, and we just tried to lynch Seppel Day 1. This piece of reasoning is "Hi, I'm scum, and I want to get the obvious townies out of the way when I'm listing reads" which is yet another point in favor of Seppel. He's probably town more often than not just due to his unlynchableness, and the fact that the reasoning I've listed out contains nothing as to why he might be possible scum.
Atogaholic will self resolve himself here, so yeah. If he's scum then we lynch Ghosting and win the game, though I'm betting that he flips vanilla town and we have to resolve the Hunger/Huntzilla mess Tomorrow.
To answer this question:
Hunt/Hunger would be the two people I would lynch, and coincidentally, the two people I want to reread the most when we get into Night.
Huntzilla was pretty townie/competent Day 1, but I am really struggling to remember any his posts recently. Recency bias yeah, but there was also Seppel's spiel about how competent!Huntzilla tends to be scum!Huntzilla. I don't know how much I believe that, since Hunt's last two scum games were kind of lousy (he got lynched Day 1 in both games, and I struggle to see him improve this much as scum). There's also the fact that he actually went and looked at the off-site game Bloscovi and I were in, but I don't know, that can possibly come from scum as well. I'm not exactly the most convinced by Hunt being scum, as you can see, but PoE is there.
And there's Hunger. Hunger doesn't /feel/ like scum!Hunger to me, but once again, he's just mostly here due to PoE. I liked the conviction in his case against Seppel, but he simply just.. hasn't been Town enough. Most of his stuff is inherently fakeable, even though I wouldn't necessary scumread him for it.
It's a bit worrying that I have zero conviction against either of these two people, but.. the scum this game have been mostly shrug lynches? Kraj was someone in the PoE that was vig shot, and he turned out to be mafia. Matowar was in the PoE as well and was caught due to some random night action nonsense, and he was scum.
I'll need to follow this up with rereads on (first) Huntzilla and Hunger, to which I will try to get to during Night. Maybe I can cram a reread of Seppel, but that might be a stretch.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Okay?
I think I'd support that. Since good odds we'd be lynching him at some point.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@Togs:
I mean, if he hammers someone and they die anyway we can lynch him the next day. Plus he's been breadcrumbing that something happens if he hammers almost all game. And I doubt scum has a governor in a normal on top of all the other crazy in this game.
Hunt hasn't claimed. Seppel...could be shot, but I think he's town? Hm.