Wow. Silence between posts 7 hours apart is never good.
Okay so for the TS read:
He ALWAYS whines about misreps. This has been a point I have made against him SEVERAL times now in the games we have had together. He does not fully understand the concept of what makes a misrep scummy, and often points to the fact that people did not comprehend his intended meaning as a "misrep" in his eyes. Anything that is said that differs from his intended point is seen by him to be something scummy and he uses misrep to describe it. The fact that this continued this game is not surprising, and is actually overall a null tell, but slightly more townie leaning because that's all I have ever known of TS. I definitely was on the same page as you guys with thinking it was scummy, but it has NEVER played out that way.
He also loves to toot his own horn, with pretty good reason because he has had some decent success in scum hunting, though he often states that he "knew someone was scum the whole time" without mentioning it before he states he knew it.
He gets butt hurt pretty easy, and then uses reflexive language that mimics the way he felt insulted. This is a way of mocking what was said about him, and as his sig mentions (by nacho) this is his way of getting back in the person's face and is a very natural reaction. Not a scummy one.
OVerall I see TS' play as his normal self, and until I see reason otherwise, I am going to stop my errors of the past and put him in my town pile. Show me a reason that TS is NOT acting the same as his normal self and we can talk.
Not to mention I question the intentions of claiming 007 this early too. I am sure NaG has his/their reasons for it, and I don't feel like it is important to push it, but I definitely mentally noted it for later.
RVS, how quaint.
So the voting standard seems to be to just bold it, I can do that! Vote: Prophylaxis
Because my cutiepie doesn't need to help me play this game, I'm a real boy already.
My secondary red read is on the boy that has quotes about himself in his signature. I could include his name but maybe there are more of those, and I am nothing if not inclusive.
Can I ask where you have played in the past? Also, for shortening your name, I simply cannot call you HP as Nati has that on lock... Hard sounds dirty, as does wood... How about HarP... does that work for you?
A homophone which in coinincidence /
As a place of birth the phone had
The treatment of snakebite /
Or a filling infant it may be
Due to overwhelming demand, I am currently not taking commisions.
This kind of crap annoys me. Can you just say what you mean instead of making little riddles? It looks like you are being too cute and trying to hide in plain sight.
VOTE: HARDWOOD You're not American, Jimbo! I wonder how many activated abilities there are in this game that aren't items :S Splitting them up into two catergories (Item and Non-Item) is weird. It may be our way of trying to save powerful roles Does the NK resolve before Item passes... In America?
Are you trying to look Russian? You do understand JANUS is a Russian crime syndicate... so you are claiming scum then?
Care to elaborate on the "just feel crafted" portions of any post. I'm having a hard time feeling up on my computer.
I have a hard time articulating it into words, but in Ghosting's #43 the "didn't show any paranoia or anything, also didn't attack me in response" feels tacked on. That's kind of what I meant by crafted.
Also,
Quote from Ghosting »
1. It was definitely accusatory, but in the sense that I was applying pressure and seeking clarification of an unusually worded sentence. Also, I feel that why vote so soon when there's one thing he said only? I always make sure to at least hear someone's response before I vote for them, just in case they clarify or respond in a way that makes me see no reason to push further; there's no point rushing in to vote someone off of one post before giving them a chance to speak.
This is probably going to degenerate into "I play differently than you do" but there's no reason not to use your vote early in the game. A vote is a townie's only weapon, and they should use it aggressively and without fear. Obviously you think differently of course, but that's not going to help me discern your alignment.
Quote from Ghosting »
2. I'm pretty vocally against reads without reasons as I feel that it allows scum to casually buddy/cast suspicion without legitimate reason. It also helps me when I reference my own posts to see why I was thinking what I was thinking.
Same here, though to a bit lesser extent than you. Though this is also theory stuff that doesn't help.
Why did you feel the need to add all the extra reasoning as to why GJ was town?
----
Quote from Matowar »
@Proph: I don't really get how to read RVSs yet Frown I figured they were just a sort of jokey way to get and conversation and thus the game going. Hardwood reads like a old player happy to be back and playing a game for the first time in a while, Ghosting seems to be over analyzing a very small amount of information that probably won't be relevant for too long but then again he doesn't seem to be wrong on GJ. (Although ACE ATTORNEY ISN'T OVER YET GHOSTING YOU PLONK!) He may just be trying to look like he's contributing a lot without actually giving much input but I think I'll wait till a bit later on before I consider him for the Possibly Scum category, he's acted like this before. I don't like Bloscovi's start, it's too aggressive and blunt, I have immediate WIFOM as to whether that's a scum move or not. You get nothing from me until later Proph Grin I'm biased towards you since you were so good as town in Prisoner's. I'll wait for some reads outside of RVS from you, ask me again then.
You do realize I would have single-handedly lost the game for you guys in Prisoner's Dilemma had Hunt NK'd tom? I probably played the worst in that game.
What's the scum-motivation for Bloscovi to play aggressively? Why do you think Ghosting could be Possibly Scum, as opposed to Possibly Town?
not_a_gimmick feels town. He's trying to solve the game.
Please don't bring that up. I thought long and hard on you or Tom and decided you were more likely to flip flop on your read of me. I would have really liked to bring that game home...
I see your explanation back to Ghosting as over explanatory, what made your questioning slightly different and not the same thing? You site crafted responses as one of your reasons, but your posts always look well put together and "crafted" in a sense... how can I be sure you aren't projecting your own scum fear onto another person?
Also, Why can't NaG's "solving the game" be him blending in? What makes it more of a townie lean?
Alright I'll stop with the emoticons. You guys clearly don't appreciate the American dream.
@GJ: Get in here and talk about Ghosting.
@Proph: Even if you would have failed in Lylo your large post about alignments was one of the best posts in the game, it was well though out and well presented and helped a huge part in solving the game. Ghosting could be early clearing someone he knows is town and has an easy reason to think is town to avoid suspicion later, if we ever lynch GJ, Ghosting or I get a strong alignment read for Ghosting I'll have a better idea on this. I was more referring to how you guys feel he is Possible Scum and how I don't have a strong read either way yet. After noting the way GJ doesn't feel the need to defend himself, he's jumping pretty hard onto the backpedal from attempting to solve the game to uber defensive of his playstyle.
I have no idea how to word my answer to the Bloscovi question since the answer breaks forum rules... :'(
@TS: You aren't gonna go communist on me are you? If there's one thing we hate more than the French (The complete opposite of American) It's the commies
Ohhh. I see, so you are saying you ARE American... Why the insistence on this point then?
@Prop-I've noticed through what you've said in multiple games that you think players should never express any doubt in a player's alignment nor mention anyone's actions as being troublesome without voting them? Why is that?
This is basically mafia theory stuff that I said to Ghosting, but: If you are town, your vote is one of the few weapons you have. As such, it would behoove you to use it as aggressively as possible. The more people who vote, the more scum are forced to vote and justify it. You unvoting, then not voting Kraj when you think Kraj is being opportunistic, smacks of being non-commital with your vote.
Quote from TS »
Me immediately voting Kraj for his bad vote on me doesn't actually do anything productive.
Why don't you think it's productive?
You think Kraj is being opportunistic with regards to voting you, which you state "isn't the towniest line of play". If you're town and you think he's scum, then obviously you want to vote him so that we can lynch scum.
If you want him to respond to you and follow up on your comments, then a pressure vote adds to that; see how Bloscovi and I are interrogating Ghosting, even though we're voting for him.
The only read I've got here, is TS. If NAG's claim was false, that's such a huge risk claiming it in the 7th post of the game, before 12 people could chime in. If it was a false claim, there should be a counterclaim, OR NAG took a risk that James Bond wouldn't be in the game at all.
As far as why somebody would claim a well known character, I'd have to have some faith that there was a plan there. Which I'm fine indulging for now (and I don't feel like giving the scum team any info on this). If NAG gets himself killed, that's on him. But clearly the assumption would be that James Bond HAS to be town, right?
So it's a little strange that none of this would be apparent to you TS. Yet you're doggedly pursuing his reasons. I don't like it. I don't have half the experience you do, and I can think of at least two reasons to claim exactly as NAG has.
YOU'RE SUSPECT Vote TS
Sure, but much like Kraj, you are not explaining what the red motivation behind TappingStones' actions is.
What would a red TappingStones gain by pressuring a blue roleclaimer?
I do not mean this in an offensive way, but Hanlon's razor applies.
I would also mention that falseclaiming a rolename (not even a role) is almost zero risk, and it is in no world going to draw out a counterclaim on page one. Maybe not even the whole of Day 1. Perhaps never.
Love this post and reponse. This is exactly what I was thinking about the Kraj/TS back and forth.
Sure, but much like Kraj, you are not explaining what the red motivation behind TappingStones' actions is.
What would a red TappingStones gain by pressuring a blue roleclaimer?
It's not the pressure I mind. It's the fishing expedition to conceivably force NAG to say something that would help the scum team more than town. There isn't a town mindset that would call attention to a suspected town member taking this stand (I'm JB, come at me). What's the town motivation? "He's James Bond and I need to know exactly what he's doing". Why? Is the claim unbelievable? No. Is it an auto-clear? No. Do I need to know exactly what his plan is? Not yet.
Mindreaver jumped from Hardwood to TS pretty quickly and retracted his vote from Hardwood by saying "I guess RVS is over, so Unvote", when his vote on Hardwood wasn't an RVS vote. So I'm curious his reasoning for that.
"Vote you because you wasted my time". Come on dude, it's pretty clear that wasn't serious.
Someone like TS who is always driving towards solving the game goes on the fishing expedition, as you put it, in order to get more information to solve the game. He saw something odd, to him, and wanted to find out why someone would do that.
At this point though NaG has given a decent enough reason to let it be. If TS were to continue fishing, that would be suspect. Why not wait and see where it goes and if he backs off or not? Also, with the scum team being JANUS related, why the heck would 007 NOT be an auto-clear?
I agree with this statement; his play is genuine, remarkably similar to Ace Attorney where he flipped town, and his response to my interpretation of his post was natural and didn't show any paranoia or anything, also didn't attack me in response.
Hmm.
Quote from Proph »
Where in my RVS post did I come out as "way too polite"?
Your response of "I don't see where you are coming from" came off like you thought I was right, but just wanted understanding. The thought that I might be full of ***** didn't even register in your response towards me. I am not too worried about it yet, but merely an observation to store for later.
I kind of want him to actually post something of substance, though.
It's post 46. There are still people who haven't even posted yet, so asking for substance at this stage is strange.
Quote from Matowar »
@GJ: Get in here and talk about Ghosting.
His primary reason is that my speech feels genuine, and meta. Trying to meta me is a terrible idea, regardless of my alignment, but I don't really fault ghosting as he wouldn't know this. I would be more suspicious if someone like Proph/IMAB tried this. I am a bit paranoid he town cleared me so quickly, but he really hasn't hit any other bells other than that.
Quote from Ghosting »
I think you, Mato, and GJ are town.
That is a lot of town clears for < 100 posts. Why are you so focused on that, rather than trying to uproot scumspects?
Wholeheartedly agree with the bolded. That seems very odd to me...
Kraj and Mindreaver both have failed to point out a reason that I am scum.
...
Mindreaver any reasons that you are calling me scum I'm not seeing the point of your vote, you felt it was a safe place to be?
Just splitting that up for the pieces relevant to me.
I'm saying your my only lean either way, and I prefer to let my vote go with my suspicions. My point is that your position on the "Why did you claim James Bond?" can't come from a town mindset. The only benefit from answering that question would be to scum. That's my reasoning. If I'm wrong, you've got plenty of time to convince me. But "you've failed to point out a reason" isn't going to do it, when I've told you exactly my reason. It isn't even complicated.
Now that I have given a reasoning for why it might be a town mindset... any change in opinion?
Vote: Jobie Because it was a good idea in Mushroom Kingdom.
First off, I don't even remember Mushroom Kingdom, but looking at my stats it looks like that game started me on a 3 year losing streak... Great.
Second, the first RVS-style vote after RVS has started to end makes me sad and doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
Seppel when are you going to actually play the game?
Day 3.
This seems oddly optimistic by you Seppel. You sure you didn't mean Day 4?
RE: Our two wagons to date:
Hardwood: Hardwood got railed for tonal reasons which seemed weak at best. The pace of the wagon is interesting, 3 votes in 7 posts to bring H_P to 5 votes.
Tapping: Tapping gonna Tapping. I've done little more than skimming (CTRL+F "vote"; CTRL+F "Jobie" ad nauseam) but it seems like this wagon arose due to weak pretenses for a read made by Tapping
BONUS Wagon: Ghosting has received attention for being overly wordy in an explanation *yawn*
Vote: Mindreaver
Why Mindreaver if you have only skimmed, but don't agree with any of the wagons... ?
I've only read the post above. And at first I was just going to say that TS and Brinatoo were unaligned, but after reading Brinatoo's post in full and TS's reply, I also think TS is town and Brinatoo is scum.
What makes it scummy? I see Brin as trying to reconcile their opinions?
I tried to read through, but I have a headache, and TappingStones' posts make me want to put a bullet into my temple.
VOTE:Bloscovi.
My vote is staying here all game for two reasons that I absolutely won't go into but I hope everyone would follow me here. Just have faith.
You are doing something! Yay!
And 100% agree.
Unvote
Vote Bloscovi
I will give a little insight. Fearmongering through negativity...
Vote: Jobie Because it was a good idea in Mushroom Kingdom.
First off, I don't even remember Mushroom Kingdom, but looking at my stats it looks like that game started me on a 3 year losing streak... Great.
Second, the first RVS-style vote after RVS has started to end makes me sad and doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
Seppel when are you going to actually play the game?
Day 3.
This seems oddly optimistic by you Seppel. You sure you didn't mean Day 4?
RE: Our two wagons to date:
Hardwood: Hardwood got railed for tonal reasons which seemed weak at best. The pace of the wagon is interesting, 3 votes in 7 posts to bring H_P to 5 votes.
Tapping: Tapping gonna Tapping. I've done little more than skimming (CTRL+F "vote"; CTRL+F "Jobie" ad nauseam) but it seems like this wagon arose due to weak pretenses for a read made by Tapping
BONUS Wagon: Ghosting has received attention for being overly wordy in an explanation *yawn*
Vote: Mindreaver
Why Mindreaver if you have only skimmed, but don't agree with any of the wagons... ?
My vote is related to my pie-charty reads. Mindreaver was on both bad wagons and seemed very willing to casually move his vote between them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Vote: Jobie Because it was a good idea in Mushroom Kingdom.
First off, I don't even remember Mushroom Kingdom, but looking at my stats it looks like that game started me on a 3 year losing streak... Great.
Second, the first RVS-style vote after RVS has started to end makes me sad and doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
Seppel when are you going to actually play the game?
Day 3.
This seems oddly optimistic by you Seppel. You sure you didn't mean Day 4?
RE: Our two wagons to date:
Hardwood: Hardwood got railed for tonal reasons which seemed weak at best. The pace of the wagon is interesting, 3 votes in 7 posts to bring H_P to 5 votes.
Tapping: Tapping gonna Tapping. I've done little more than skimming (CTRL+F "vote"; CTRL+F "Jobie" ad nauseam) but it seems like this wagon arose due to weak pretenses for a read made by Tapping
BONUS Wagon: Ghosting has received attention for being overly wordy in an explanation *yawn*
Vote: Mindreaver
Why Mindreaver if you have only skimmed, but don't agree with any of the wagons... ?
My vote is related to my pie-charty reads. Mindreaver was on both bad wagons and seemed very willing to casually move his vote between them.
I didn't notice this. Do any particular posts stand out to you as being unnatural language for town? Or just the vote moving actions themselves are a warning sign for you?
@Hunt: Clearly it is because I'm American, I even wear sunglasses inside. All Americans wear sunglasses.
Jobie why'd you go and post that? I was hoping he'd move onto Bloscovi next and I could land him... In America! Ah well [b] UNVOTE, Vote Hunger [\b] Stop lurking and give me something to read -.- like your thoughts on Proph or Ghosting's recent silence.
Your posting this game reminds me of Tomsloger:sweat:
What are your current reads. Spare me the rest of the nonsense.
Vote: Jobie Because it was a good idea in Mushroom Kingdom.
First off, I don't even remember Mushroom Kingdom, but looking at my stats it looks like that game started me on a 3 year losing streak... Great.
Second, the first RVS-style vote after RVS has started to end makes me sad and doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
Seppel when are you going to actually play the game?
Day 3.
This seems oddly optimistic by you Seppel. You sure you didn't mean Day 4?
RE: Our two wagons to date:
Hardwood: Hardwood got railed for tonal reasons which seemed weak at best. The pace of the wagon is interesting, 3 votes in 7 posts to bring H_P to 5 votes.
Tapping: Tapping gonna Tapping. I've done little more than skimming (CTRL+F "vote"; CTRL+F "Jobie" ad nauseam) but it seems like this wagon arose due to weak pretenses for a read made by Tapping
BONUS Wagon: Ghosting has received attention for being overly wordy in an explanation *yawn*
Vote: Mindreaver
Why Mindreaver if you have only skimmed, but don't agree with any of the wagons... ?
My vote is related to my pie-charty reads. Mindreaver was on both bad wagons and seemed very willing to casually move his vote between them.
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
I was, and currently still am, voting TS. But that's my first serious vote of the whole game. To say "very willing to casually move his vote between them" is a HUGE stretch. Especially since that makes it sound like I voted more than twice.
@Hunt Re:TS Alignment - Like I said above, I'm not convinced he's scum to the core. At first, no, I didn't see a reason why town would call attention to that claim, potentially giving more info to scum. Now, I'm waffling a little. Again, as I said above, I don't think it was a good line of questioning for a town player to engage in, but might not be the smoking gun I thought it originally was.
I was waiting to vote to see Brinatoo's next post and it didn't come off as the way I'd expect it to if Brinatoo were scum. In fact, it's a very townie response, and it jives with his mindset.
TS's post above is pretty townie.
I've already fullclaimed so I might as well zay that I've got two good targets for tonight.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Liking the huntzilla wall in general, but dont love the end.
Not to say bloscovi is definitely town, but its unclear why that post ended with that vote.
Why are people excited for businessman to do something? Is he good?
Vote: imabusinessman
"solid gold"
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Liking the huntzilla wall in general, but dont love the end.
Not to say bloscovi is definitely town, but its unclear why that post ended with that vote.
Why are people excited for businessman to do something? Is he good?
Vote: imabusinessman
"solid gold"
My comments in regards to IABM are just that I enjoy playing with him and so do several others. I have no read on him yet. He's a wildcard (sort of like me) though I'm very transparent and he's tougher to read I suppose.
There is nothing meaningful in #87. You don't like the order in which I presented some thoughts/concerns I have about the early claim. You say it's from a "heavy scum mindset". Whatever that means. You haven't presented in any meaningful way why my words aren't town. This is a low level mistake that happens often in Mafia, namely "Player x does things I wouldn't do, therefore I think he's scum". You are free to pursue this line of attack against me but it's too weak. It's not indicative of anything.
Is there anything else you want to discuss while I'm here?
No. Yes. Leaning Heavily- meaning I believe it was most likely scum mindset. The other case being as what Kraj described in #127 as legitimately insane. Hell it could be a combination of the two with what I'm seeing. "you haven't presented"- I don't think any words could be town (Unless you meant phrases). But I'm analyzing your posting behavior. Then you essentially called my reasoning a low level mistake and think my method is "Player x does things I wouldn't do, therefore I think he's scum." Again, posting behavior not a "if i was in his shoes" scenario. This coupled with your reactionary play after just dug the hole deeper for me.
Did you grow up in China?
I swear TS had this conversation with someone just two games ago.
[b]Vote: Jobie[/b] Because it was a good idea in Mushroom Kingdom.
First off, I don't even remember Mushroom Kingdom, but looking at my stats it looks like that game started me on a 3 year losing streak... Great.
Second, the first RVS-style vote after RVS has started to end makes me sad and doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
Seppel when are you going to actually play the game?
Day 3.
This seems oddly optimistic by you Seppel. You sure you didn't mean Day 4?
RE: Our two wagons to date:
Hardwood: Hardwood got railed for tonal reasons which seemed weak at best. The pace of the wagon is interesting, 3 votes in 7 posts to bring H_P to 5 votes.
Tapping: Tapping gonna Tapping. I've done little more than skimming (CTRL+F "vote"; CTRL+F "Jobie" ad nauseam) but it seems like this wagon arose due to weak pretenses for a read made by Tapping
BONUS Wagon: Ghosting has received attention for being overly wordy in an explanation *yawn*
[b]Vote: Mindreaver[/b]
Why Mindreaver if you have only skimmed, but don't agree with any of the wagons... ?
My vote is related to my pie-charty reads. Mindreaver was on both bad wagons and seemed very willing to casually move his vote between them.
So is it safe to assume you have read through the game more than a skim? I like the reasoning.
@Hunt: Clearly it is because I'm American, I even wear sunglasses inside. All Americans wear sunglasses.
Jobie why'd you go and post that? I was hoping he'd move onto Bloscovi next and I could land him... In America! Ah well [b] UNVOTE, Vote Hunger [\b] Stop lurking and give me something to read -.- like your thoughts on Proph or Ghosting's recent silence.
Noted.
How do you feel about your vote now that he has declared his V/LA? Still hoping to pressure him?
Can I ask where you have played in the past? Also, for shortening your name, I simply cannot call you HP as Nati has that on lock... Hard sounds dirty, as does wood... How about HarP... does that work for you?
I don't have a preference.
...
Dirty? Suggestive? Me? Never.
As for your first, mostly live. Some voice and chat. Video mafia once when I was drunk and that was not a good idea all around. But since you're probably asking about forum mafia, the only site I actively played a lot of forum mafia on is since defunct and deleted. I've played a bit on mafiascum and it made me want to kill myself. Then there are a couple games strewn on different sites with faster deadlines (48/24 or 36/12 usually), but those wouldn't help you too much if you want to meta me, I play quick games quite differently, regardless of alignment as they are closer to the flow of live mafia.
It is probably better you are spared reading them, I hopped forums and frequently stopped playing forum mafia because the playerbases kept being full of dickwads/cheaters/etc., sometimes more than just one of those. Granted, mafiascum wasn't, but it also wasn't worth suicide.
This kind of crap annoys me. Can you just say what you mean instead of making little riddles? It looks like you are being too cute and trying to hide in plain sight.
I can. I just didn't.
Ohhh. I see, so you are saying you ARE American... Why the insistence on this point then?
It's called roleplaying and is related to internet Memery. You can just ignore the AMERICA thing.
I will give a little insight. Fearmongering through negativity...
You are right. The insight, it is little.
Hm. Irritable tone is obvious. Does the line of questioning bother you?
Wait why did you answer the America thing? I thought I pointed those questions at Mato...?
@Hunt Re:TS Alignment - Like I said above, I'm not convinced he's scum to the core. At first, no, I didn't see a reason why town would call attention to that claim, potentially giving more info to scum. Now, I'm waffling a little. Again, as I said above, I don't think it was a good line of questioning for a town player to engage in, but might not be the smoking gun I thought it originally was.
How does it call attention to it when everyone saw it due to it being the start of the game?
So if he's not scum to the core, is he a slight scum lean, or a strong scum lean?
Liking the huntzilla wall in general, but dont love the end.
Not to say bloscovi is definitely town, but its unclear why that post ended with that vote.
Why are people excited for businessman to do something? Is he good?
[b]Vote: imabusinessman[/b]
"solid gold"
How should my post have ended then, according to you?
Imab can be pretty derisive, and his style is brash, but he can be effectual when necessary. If he's derping it could be for various reasons, so asking if he's actually doing something is seeing if we need to keep a watchful eye on him right away, or let him do his thing.
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
@Hunt Re:TS Alignment - Like I said above, I'm not convinced he's scum to the core. At first, no, I didn't see a reason why town would call attention to that claim, potentially giving more info to scum. Now, I'm waffling a little. Again, as I said above, I don't think it was a good line of questioning for a town player to engage in, but might not be the smoking gun I thought it originally was.
How does it call attention to it when everyone saw it due to it being the start of the game?
So if he's not scum to the core, is he a slight scum lean, or a strong scum lean?
There is a big difference between everyone seeing "Guys, I'm James ****** Bond!" and seeing several pages where we grill him for the exact reason for said claim. Clearly, not everyone thought the same things when they read it. That's the whole reason people have different opinions.
I'd say I've got TS as a Slight Scum Lean to use your vernacular.
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
Vote Mindreaver
Even though I'm voting someone else and encourage everyone else to do so, Gentleman Johnny's vote is a good vote. It's not as good as my vote but it's a good vote.
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
Vote Mindreaver
Even though I'm voting someone else and encourage everyone else to do so, Gentleman Johnny's vote is a good vote. It's not as good as my vote but it's a good vote.
Hm. Irritable tone is obvious.
Does the line of questioning bother you?
Wait why did you answer the America thing? I thought I pointed those questions at Mato...?
Irritable? Not really.
Which line? Whichever it is you may spend your time however you wish, I am not personally affected by that.
Why shouldn't I?
So is it safe to assume you have read through the game more than a skim? I like the reasoning.
How exactly did you like it? Given that you quoted Mindreaver's post I'll be content to assume you did read it.
How should my post have ended then, according to you?
Why do you even care to ask this?
It's odd to answer questions meant for other people... It's inserting yourself into a conversation that isn't really meant for you. Especially if you do it before the other person answers. Then it looks like coaching.
I liked that he was thinking about the game and how Mindreaver's vote hopping on bad wagons looked, and what that meant for the game. Looks like he's trying to solve the game.
Why didn't you answer the question? I care so that I can figure out your mindset. You are an unknown, and I would really like to know what the hell you are thinking and trying to accomplish this game. Right now, it looks like you plan to be snarky and not helpful. That doesn't appear townie to me. Maybe you have something else going on, and getting an answer as to how you would have been thinking in that scenario will help me to determine whether or not you are town. So... again... how should it have ended?
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
So is it safe to assume you have read through the game more than a skim? I like the reasoning.
In the past, I've spent time analyzing tone of posts. I don't have the time for that anymore. I'm reading straight interactions (@ posts), votes and not much else. If there's something I miss it's because I don't have the time to pay super close attention.
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
I was, and currently still am, voting TS. But that's my first serious vote of the whole game. To say "very willing to casually move his vote between them" is a HUGE stretch. Especially since that makes it sound like I voted more than twice.
I considered GJ's vote on Hardwood the first "serious" vote of the game. You had already gotten your RVS vote out of your system (on Proph, second post of the game) and were the 4th vote on Hardwood. It's not the reason for your vote that I don't like. It's the context of your vote along side your T_S vote.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
EBWDP: Also, I'm either going to be posting late at night (like right now) or in a short period of time while at work. If I don't post it's probably because I forgot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Jokes on you guys, I'm on a high since I won that game so posting a bit.
Quote from gimmick »
Not at this time. I'd like to see a little more from him to see if its just one of those things.
Given that it's been four days since you last answered this, can you answer this question now?
I'm kind of sad that the wagon on TappingStones disappeared after I listed my townread on him, I knew it was going to happen but was hoping to get a full wagon so I can get the wagon analysis.
I disagree with TS pretty strongly about Kraj's attack. I thought Kraj's attack was reasoned out well, even if I don't think it quite hit the mark.
Quote from gimmick »
You are not scum with ghosting, hardwood, or brinatoo. See if you can tell why.
It's because I'm town!
Pretty strong townread on Kraj for post #127. He's legitimately confused by TappingStone's unorthodox play.
Quote from Brinatoo »
@Proph: What is your opinion on paranoia early in a game?
I think paranoia is natural and can be felt anytime. For instance, there is a player in this game that I am very paranoid about but I'm trying my best not to show it, since I know that pressuring this player will be ineffective, and if this player is town then we probably just auto-won this game.
Quote from Bloscovi »
TappingStones' posts make me want to put a bullet into my temple.
This is true for me as well, and for the sake of my own sanity I will try not to interact with TS as much as possible. Just gonna declare him light town and move on.
Quote from Huntzilla »
I see your explanation back to Ghosting as over explanatory, what made your questioning slightly different and not the same thing? You site crafted responses as one of your reasons, but your posts always look well put together and "crafted" in a sense... how can I be sure you aren't projecting your own scum fear onto another person?
I don't see how my questioning is over-explanatory? Can you clarify this question?
I also don't really see how my posts are crafted. I literally just play from the hip. Can you point to me to some posts of mine that you've found crafted?
Quote from Huntzilla »
Also, Why can't NaG's "solving the game" be him blending in? What makes it more of a townie lean?
He's genuinely excited to have found his first town read. I adopted a similar tone of excitement in Gatecrash Mafia in my notes QT:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I have formed my first town read.
Also, Hunt, why in the world are you voting Bloscovi?
Quote from Seppel »
I was waiting to vote to see Brinatoo's next post and it didn't come off as the way I'd expect it to if Brinatoo were scum. In fact, it's a very townie response, and it jives with his mindset.
Can you explain to me why Brinatoo's post is townie? It just feels like a simple explanation.
I am also not understanding the votes on Mindreaver outside of him heavily pressuring (likely town) TappingStones.
Waiting for Ghosting to show up before I pressure him further.
I've found that the players that post constantly about not liking my posts tend to be the weaker players. Most of the strong (stable-minded) players I've encountered either enjoy playing with me, enjoy my posting style and/or know how effective I can be.
Prophylaxis is town.
Yes, I am sure. No, I won't explain.
In fact, the only of the current wagons that looks ok is tappingstones.
To be clear, this is not about my opinion of the alignments of those people. Just looking at how these wagons formed.
For example, everyone who joined the tapping wagon gave reasons. Those reasons range from "kinda crappy" to "mediocre" but at least they exist, and I can see the mindset.
Both ghosting votes were late page 1 just because he's ghosting.
businessman started on bloscovi for zero reason, and huntzilla jumped on for a crappy one.
Proph is an RVS vote (hardwood) and a overreactive omgus vote (tapping)
Those are all bad, but the most interesting wagon is mindreaver's.
Jobie had a reason for his vote. TCM just quoted a post and left the vote there. And seppel didn't add *****. The wagon entrances got steadily worse. This is noted, though I don't know what to do with that note until we get some flips.
How should my post have ended then, according to you?
You expressed several scumreads that seemed much better thought out than "fearmongering through negativity"
Why is that where you voted?
Are you just sheeping businessman?
Even though I'm voting someone else and encourage everyone else to do so, Gentleman Johnny's vote is a good vote. It's not as good as my vote but it's a good vote.
I've found that the players that post constantly about not liking my posts tend to be the weaker players. Most of the strong (stable-minded) players I've encountered either enjoy playing with me, enjoy my posting style and/or know how effective I can be.
How hard are you trying to live up to huntzilla's meta read of you?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
I was, and currently still am, voting TS. But that's my first serious vote of the whole game. To say "very willing to casually move his vote between them" is a HUGE stretch. Especially since that makes it sound like I voted more than twice.
I considered GJ's vote on Hardwood the first "serious" vote of the game. You had already gotten your RVS vote out of your system (on Proph, second post of the game) and were the 4th vote on Hardwood. It's not the reason for your vote that I don't like. It's the context of your vote along side your T_S vote.
I actually hadn't considered how that looked from that perspective. I guess I didn't think about being the 4th vote there would have been significant. Fair enough, continue your analysis.
Hey guys, I'm going to be pretty v/la until after the weekend, going to an electronic music festival and probably won't be mentally back until Monday night. I may be able to post a bit tonight after classes, but I work all day tomorrow then am at the festival all weekend.
Quick question Proph, can you differentiate between my posts being crafted, and yours not being crafted? Hunt says he thinks yours are, you think mine are. Your only defense is your own word, same as mine. I know you're also saying my posts sound over analytical, but is that bad? And are you able to form an argument that isn't derived from my playstyle?
I haven't read anything beyond since I last posted and the current page (page 5), so apologies if there's more I need to answer there.
Prophylaxis is town.
Yes, I am sure. No, I won't explain.
In fact, the only of the current wagons that looks ok is tappingstones.
To be clear, this is not about my opinion of the alignments of those people. Just looking at how these wagons formed.
For example, everyone who joined the tapping wagon gave reasons. Those reasons range from "kinda crappy" to "mediocre" but at least they exist, and I can see the mindset.
Both ghosting votes were late page 1 just because he's ghosting.
businessman started on bloscovi for zero reason, and huntzilla jumped on for a crappy one.
Proph is an RVS vote (hardwood) and a overreactive omgus vote (tapping)
Those are all bad, but the most interesting wagon is mindreaver's.
Jobie had a reason for his vote. TCM just quoted a post and left the vote there. And seppel didn't add *****. The wagon entrances got steadily worse. This is noted, though I don't know what to do with that note until we get some flips.
How should my post have ended then, according to you?
You expressed several scumreads that seemed much better thought out than "fearmongering through negativity"
Why is that where you voted?
Are you just sheeping businessman?
Even though I'm voting someone else and encourage everyone else to do so, Gentleman Johnny's vote is a good vote. It's not as good as my vote but it's a good vote.
I've found that the players that post constantly about not liking my posts tend to be the weaker players. Most of the strong (stable-minded) players I've encountered either enjoy playing with me, enjoy my posting style and/or know how effective I can be.
How hard are you trying to live up to huntzilla's meta read of you?
This is easily the worst post in the thread so far. It adds nothing to solving the game. And he refuses to give reasons and then says others opinions are bad because they didn't give reasons. Like being a hypocrite much? The only good "wagon" I see so far is the mindreaver ones. The one on me was easily the worst. It's wasn't constructed with anything resembling logic.
It's odd to answer questions meant for other people... It's inserting yourself into a conversation that isn't really meant for you. Especially if you do it before the other person answers. Then it looks like coaching.
And here I thought you would appreciate being notified that the direction you're going is devoid of alignment indicative content because you disliked contentless posting.. My bad. Why is it odd? You publicly post it in the thread for everyone to read, surely you don't think it's correct for everybody to ingore it. Being before the person themselves answered is unfortunately not surprising given activity levels.
Why didn't you answer the question? I care so that I can figure out your mindset. You are an unknown, and I would really like to know what the hell you are thinking and trying to accomplish this game. Right now, it looks like you plan to be snarky and not helpful. That doesn't appear townie to me. Maybe you have something else going on, and getting an answer as to how you would have been thinking in that scenario will help me to determine whether or not you are town. So... again... how should it have ended?
Wait what which question? How your post should have ended? Eh. Even if that was directed towards me and I was thus 'allowed' to answer it by your decree, I would never answer it since it's a terrible question to ask. 'Please tell me how to act so you will like me' is basic red behaviour.
And I personally don't think setting arbitrary rules about who can talk about what is very helpful for the town, so I suppose we can just scumread each other, that'll be fun.
In every game I've played in there has been well established lines that you shouldn't be answering questions directed at others before that person gives an answer. It's rude for one. For two we don't get to see as natural respense from the intended person because you are already throwing out other ideas. If you are so eager to interact then ask questions and start scum hunting. I see a lot of new faces in this game acting like brand new players. "Yeah, he's scum. He does something I wouldn't do" Makes the rest of us want to shoot ourselves having to read this poop.
This is easily the worst post in the thread so far. It adds nothing to solving the game. And he refuses to give reasons and then says others opinions are bad because they didn't give reasons. Like being a hypocrite much? The only good "wagon" I see so far is the mindreaver ones. The one on me was easily the worst. It's wasn't constructed with anything resembling logic.
What makes it "good" TS? Was it the detailed reasoning of IABM/Seppel?
This is easily the worst post in the thread so far. It adds nothing to solving the game. And he refuses to give reasons and then says others opinions are bad because they didn't give reasons. Like being a hypocrite much? The only good "wagon" I see so far is the mindreaver ones. The one on me was easily the worst. It's wasn't constructed with anything resembling logic.
What makes it "good" TS? Was it the detailed reasoning of IABM/Seppel?
Oh, you mean in comparison with the people who are saying "i don't want to give my reasons"....yeah, because that's helpful.
If you take a look I have unanswered questions waiting for Seppel, IABM and GJ. I guess Kraj is too embarrassed to answer the questions against him as he was caught not reading the game and throwing his vote around recklessly.
UNVOTE
We have 3-4 players on V-LA right now. For those people who are available for discussion I'd like to see where everyone is in terms of T/S reports. I think early lists are useless especially as the game goes on.
Oh, you mean in comparison with the people who are saying "i don't want to give my reasons"....yeah, because that's helpful.
Do you mean how I voted you without laying out the exact thought process for NAG's claim?
No, not that. The people that are saying "I think this person is X and I'm not going to say why." That's just not helpful. It doesn't help solve the game. I think the more open discussion that takes place the better it is for town players. Therefore people should be engaging with others, asking questions and giving reasoning for reads. That's how the town can try to overcome the information deficit.
Ah yes, my vote is still on him. Maybe about time I move it.
Unvote
Vote: Huntzilla
What's your reasoning for voting Huntzilla? I have him as a somewhat decent town read, mostly because his opening post felt so /strong/ compared to his previous games.
Quote from Ghosting »
Quick question Proph, can you differentiate between my posts being crafted, and yours not being crafted? Hunt says he thinks yours are, you think mine are. Your only defense is your own word, same as mine. I know you're also saying my posts sound over analytical, but is that bad? And are you able to form an argument that isn't derived from my playstyle?
I don't see my posts as crafted because.. I'm town. Like I said to Hunt, I'm mostly just posting once I read new information, which is why all of my posts are huge ugly quote walls like these.
I'm waiting until you catch up in the thread to interact/pressure you even further.
Can someone explain to me why the Mindreaver wagon is a thing? From my perspective, he's just voting someone who we all believe to be town (TS) and then actively interrogating/questioning him. I don't see anything that really stems from a scum mindset.
Ah yes, my vote is still on him. Maybe about time I move it.
Unvote
Vote: Huntzilla
What's your reasoning for voting Huntzilla? I have him as a somewhat decent town read, mostly because his opening post felt so /strong/ compared to his previous games.
Quote from Ghosting »
Quick question Proph, can you differentiate between my posts being crafted, and yours not being crafted? Hunt says he thinks yours are, you think mine are. Your only defense is your own word, same as mine. I know you're also saying my posts sound over analytical, but is that bad? And are you able to form an argument that isn't derived from my playstyle?
I don't see my posts as crafted because.. I'm town. Like I said to Hunt, I'm mostly just posting once I read new information, which is why all of my posts are huge ugly quote walls like these.
I'm waiting until you catch up in the thread to interact/pressure you even further.
Can someone explain to me why the Mindreaver wagon is a thing? From my perspective, he's just voting someone who we all believe to be town (TS) and then actively interrogating/questioning him. I don't see anything that really stems from a scum mindset.
I'm being interrogated? Wow, news to me. I thought I was waiting for four people to answer unanswered questions. I do still see people misrepping me and saying that my vote on Proph was somehow related to an OMGUS. Firstly he didn't ever vote for me despite the misinformation being spread by Kraj. Secondly I voted him based on him saying that I voted Kraj for a reason he knew to be false. I also explained it pretty clearly.
Wow, people really trying to twist Hunt's words around. He worded it similar to how I would have worded it. You said you didn't like something about his post, he asked what you didn't like and then you attack him for it.
You are being vague on purpose and I don't understand why. You are creating a false attack on Hunt.
Not even 'what didn't you like about it', but just 'please tell me what to do so you will like me'.
Means his focus is on being read well instead of the things towns should be focused on. I believe this 'stems from a scum mindset'.
I see your reasoning, though personally I interpreted Hunt's question differently from you.
I saw Hunt's question as trying to figure out not_a_gimmick's alignment, by asking him what he would do in Hunt's shoes.
I dismissed that interpretation because it regards a topic he is confident in and he feels like he has more insight in. That is not a situation you ask for advice about.
@Hardwood-He doesn't appear to be asking for advice. He's confused to what you don't like because you are being vague. It's a completely fair question for him to ask.
This is the problem with not playing transparently. It leads to people seeking clarification and in this case you are actually trying to punish him for that which is annoying.
Okay so for the TS read:
He ALWAYS whines about misreps. This has been a point I have made against him SEVERAL times now in the games we have had together. He does not fully understand the concept of what makes a misrep scummy, and often points to the fact that people did not comprehend his intended meaning as a "misrep" in his eyes. Anything that is said that differs from his intended point is seen by him to be something scummy and he uses misrep to describe it. The fact that this continued this game is not surprising, and is actually overall a null tell, but slightly more townie leaning because that's all I have ever known of TS. I definitely was on the same page as you guys with thinking it was scummy, but it has NEVER played out that way.
He also loves to toot his own horn, with pretty good reason because he has had some decent success in scum hunting, though he often states that he "knew someone was scum the whole time" without mentioning it before he states he knew it.
He gets butt hurt pretty easy, and then uses reflexive language that mimics the way he felt insulted. This is a way of mocking what was said about him, and as his sig mentions (by nacho) this is his way of getting back in the person's face and is a very natural reaction. Not a scummy one.
OVerall I see TS' play as his normal self, and until I see reason otherwise, I am going to stop my errors of the past and put him in my town pile. Show me a reason that TS is NOT acting the same as his normal self and we can talk.
Not to mention I question the intentions of claiming 007 this early too. I am sure NaG has his/their reasons for it, and I don't feel like it is important to push it, but I definitely mentally noted it for later.
Can I ask where you have played in the past? Also, for shortening your name, I simply cannot call you HP as Nati has that on lock... Hard sounds dirty, as does wood... How about HarP... does that work for you?
This kind of crap annoys me. Can you just say what you mean instead of making little riddles? It looks like you are being too cute and trying to hide in plain sight.
Are you trying to look Russian? You do understand JANUS is a Russian crime syndicate... so you are claiming scum then?
Please don't bring that up. I thought long and hard on you or Tom and decided you were more likely to flip flop on your read of me. I would have really liked to bring that game home...
I see your explanation back to Ghosting as over explanatory, what made your questioning slightly different and not the same thing? You site crafted responses as one of your reasons, but your posts always look well put together and "crafted" in a sense... how can I be sure you aren't projecting your own scum fear onto another person?
Also, Why can't NaG's "solving the game" be him blending in? What makes it more of a townie lean?
Ohhh. I see, so you are saying you ARE American... Why the insistence on this point then?
Agree with the OoG Theory about voting...
Love this post and reponse. This is exactly what I was thinking about the Kraj/TS back and forth.
Someone like TS who is always driving towards solving the game goes on the fishing expedition, as you put it, in order to get more information to solve the game. He saw something odd, to him, and wanted to find out why someone would do that.
At this point though NaG has given a decent enough reason to let it be. If TS were to continue fishing, that would be suspect. Why not wait and see where it goes and if he backs off or not? Also, with the scum team being JANUS related, why the heck would 007 NOT be an auto-clear?
Wholeheartedly agree with the bolded. That seems very odd to me...
Now that I have given a reasoning for why it might be a town mindset... any change in opinion?
Hey Imab... are you gonna, do, anything?
Jobie, you know the deal.
Pie Charts... STAT
DiEstoRemOval
Should we run you up before then, orrrr no?
Lot's of TS page 3.
Why Mindreaver if you have only skimmed, but don't agree with any of the wagons... ?
What makes it scummy? I see Brin as trying to reconcile their opinions?
That's helpful.
You are doing something! Yay!
And 100% agree.
Unvote
Vote Bloscovi
I will give a little insight. Fearmongering through negativity...
That was a wall... Yikes.
However...
My vote is related to my pie-charty reads. Mindreaver was on both bad wagons and seemed very willing to casually move his vote between them.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
I didn't notice this. Do any particular posts stand out to you as being unnatural language for town? Or just the vote moving actions themselves are a warning sign for you?
@Hunt-Just don't lock yourself in too tightly on anyone, stay fluid in your reads and this could be one of your better games.
Your posting this game reminds me of Tomsloger:sweat:
What are your current reads. Spare me the rest of the nonsense.
That's dangerously close to a misrep. I voted Hardwood, yes, but I think on a reread of the actual vote, that I wasn't being serious (still being barely out of RVS at the time, if [left]we were even out). Even if he did intentionally waste my time with that poem, how could I possibly think that would be alignment indicative?
I was, and currently still am, voting TS. But that's my first serious vote of the whole game. To say "very willing to casually move his vote between them" is a HUGE stretch. Especially since that makes it sound like I voted more than twice.
@Hunt Re:TS Alignment - Like I said above, I'm not convinced he's scum to the core. At first, no, I didn't see a reason why town would call attention to that claim, potentially giving more info to scum. Now, I'm waffling a little. Again, as I said above, I don't think it was a good line of questioning for a town player to engage in, but might not be the smoking gun I thought it originally was.
And I'm going out of town this weekend and Monday is my birthday. So...
@Mod - V/LA until Tuesday, June 1st
In regard to Hunger. That would mean he would be V-LA for the first 11 days of the game as he hasn't made a game related post yet.
TS's post above is pretty townie.
I've already fullclaimed so I might as well zay that I've got two good targets for tonight.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Unvote
Liking the huntzilla wall in general, but dont love the end.
Not to say bloscovi is definitely town, but its unclear why that post ended with that vote.
Why are people excited for businessman to do something? Is he good?
Vote: imabusinessman
"solid gold"
My comments in regards to IABM are just that I enjoy playing with him and so do several others. I have no read on him yet. He's a wildcard (sort of like me) though I'm very transparent and he's tougher to read I suppose.
So is it safe to assume you have read through the game more than a skim? I like the reasoning.
Noted.
How do you feel about your vote now that he has declared his V/LA? Still hoping to pressure him?
I will do what I can. You know I will have a period of doing ***** for the lulz eventually... But I will keep the advice in mind.
Hm. Irritable tone is obvious. Does the line of questioning bother you?
Wait why did you answer the America thing? I thought I pointed those questions at Mato...?
How does it call attention to it when everyone saw it due to it being the start of the game?
So if he's not scum to the core, is he a slight scum lean, or a strong scum lean?
How should my post have ended then, according to you?
Imab can be pretty derisive, and his style is brash, but he can be effectual when necessary. If he's derping it could be for various reasons, so asking if he's actually doing something is seeing if we need to keep a watchful eye on him right away, or let him do his thing.
Vote Mindreaver
The GJ way path to no lynching:
There is a big difference between everyone seeing "Guys, I'm James ****** Bond!" and seeing several pages where we grill him for the exact reason for said claim. Clearly, not everyone thought the same things when they read it. That's the whole reason people have different opinions.
I'd say I've got TS as a Slight Scum Lean to use your vernacular.
Even though I'm voting someone else and encourage everyone else to do so, Gentleman Johnny's vote is a good vote. It's not as good as my vote but it's a good vote.
vote min dreaver
It's odd to answer questions meant for other people... It's inserting yourself into a conversation that isn't really meant for you. Especially if you do it before the other person answers. Then it looks like coaching.
I liked that he was thinking about the game and how Mindreaver's vote hopping on bad wagons looked, and what that meant for the game. Looks like he's trying to solve the game.
Why didn't you answer the question? I care so that I can figure out your mindset. You are an unknown, and I would really like to know what the hell you are thinking and trying to accomplish this game. Right now, it looks like you plan to be snarky and not helpful. That doesn't appear townie to me. Maybe you have something else going on, and getting an answer as to how you would have been thinking in that scenario will help me to determine whether or not you are town. So... again... how should it have ended?
What the hell?
Point stands... Meant to determine mindset
Can I inquire as to the nature of your concern?
@Sheeple - You too.
I considered GJ's vote on Hardwood the first "serious" vote of the game. You had already gotten your RVS vote out of your system (on Proph, second post of the game) and were the 4th vote on Hardwood. It's not the reason for your vote that I don't like. It's the context of your vote along side your T_S vote.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
I will resume posting tomorrow.
Given that it's been four days since you last answered this, can you answer this question now?
I'm kind of sad that the wagon on TappingStones disappeared after I listed my townread on him, I knew it was going to happen but was hoping to get a full wagon so I can get the wagon analysis.
I disagree with TS pretty strongly about Kraj's attack. I thought Kraj's attack was reasoned out well, even if I don't think it quite hit the mark.
It's because I'm town!
Pretty strong townread on Kraj for post #127. He's legitimately confused by TappingStone's unorthodox play.
I think paranoia is natural and can be felt anytime. For instance, there is a player in this game that I am very paranoid about but I'm trying my best not to show it, since I know that pressuring this player will be ineffective, and if this player is town then we probably just auto-won this game.
This is true for me as well, and for the sake of my own sanity I will try not to interact with TS as much as possible. Just gonna declare him light town and move on.
I don't see how my questioning is over-explanatory? Can you clarify this question?
I also don't really see how my posts are crafted. I literally just play from the hip. Can you point to me to some posts of mine that you've found crafted?
He's genuinely excited to have found his first town read. I adopted a similar tone of excitement in Gatecrash Mafia in my notes QT:
Also, Hunt, why in the world are you voting Bloscovi?
Can you explain to me why Brinatoo's post is townie? It just feels like a simple explanation.
I am also not understanding the votes on Mindreaver outside of him heavily pressuring (likely town) TappingStones.
Waiting for Ghosting to show up before I pressure him further.
@IABM-Which players are scummiest in your estimation?
@GJ-Why are you so quiet? You seemed much more active in Ace Attorney post game QT.
Prophylaxis is town.
Yes, I am sure. No, I won't explain.
In fact, the only of the current wagons that looks ok is tappingstones.
To be clear, this is not about my opinion of the alignments of those people. Just looking at how these wagons formed.
For example, everyone who joined the tapping wagon gave reasons. Those reasons range from "kinda crappy" to "mediocre" but at least they exist, and I can see the mindset.
Both ghosting votes were late page 1 just because he's ghosting.
businessman started on bloscovi for zero reason, and huntzilla jumped on for a crappy one.
Proph is an RVS vote (hardwood) and a overreactive omgus vote (tapping)
Those are all bad, but the most interesting wagon is mindreaver's.
Jobie had a reason for his vote. TCM just quoted a post and left the vote there. And seppel didn't add *****. The wagon entrances got steadily worse. This is noted, though I don't know what to do with that note until we get some flips.
Why do you consider yourself a wildcard? You expressed several scumreads that seemed much better thought out than "fearmongering through negativity"
Why is that where you voted?
Are you just sheeping businessman?ThatsNotHowAnyOfThisWorks.gif Well, I unvoted him. How hard are you trying to live up to huntzilla's meta read of you?
I actually hadn't considered how that looked from that perspective. I guess I didn't think about being the 4th vote there would have been significant. Fair enough, continue your analysis.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I haven't read anything beyond since I last posted and the current page (page 5), so apologies if there's more I need to answer there.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
This is easily the worst post in the thread so far. It adds nothing to solving the game. And he refuses to give reasons and then says others opinions are bad because they didn't give reasons. Like being a hypocrite much? The only good "wagon" I see so far is the mindreaver ones. The one on me was easily the worst. It's wasn't constructed with anything resembling logic.
In every game I've played in there has been well established lines that you shouldn't be answering questions directed at others before that person gives an answer. It's rude for one. For two we don't get to see as natural respense from the intended person because you are already throwing out other ideas. If you are so eager to interact then ask questions and start scum hunting. I see a lot of new faces in this game acting like brand new players. "Yeah, he's scum. He does something I wouldn't do" Makes the rest of us want to shoot ourselves having to read this poop.
What makes it "good" TS? Was it the detailed reasoning of IABM/Seppel?
Oh, you mean in comparison with the people who are saying "i don't want to give my reasons"....yeah, because that's helpful.
If you take a look I have unanswered questions waiting for Seppel, IABM and GJ. I guess Kraj is too embarrassed to answer the questions against him as he was caught not reading the game and throwing his vote around recklessly.
UNVOTE
We have 3-4 players on V-LA right now. For those people who are available for discussion I'd like to see where everyone is in terms of T/S reports. I think early lists are useless especially as the game goes on.
Do you mean how I voted you without laying out the exact thought process for NAG's claim?
No, not that. The people that are saying "I think this person is X and I'm not going to say why." That's just not helpful. It doesn't help solve the game. I think the more open discussion that takes place the better it is for town players. Therefore people should be engaging with others, asking questions and giving reasoning for reads. That's how the town can try to overcome the information deficit.
What's your reasoning for voting Huntzilla? I have him as a somewhat decent town read, mostly because his opening post felt so /strong/ compared to his previous games.
I don't see my posts as crafted because.. I'm town. Like I said to Hunt, I'm mostly just posting once I read new information, which is why all of my posts are huge ugly quote walls like these.
I'm waiting until you catch up in the thread to interact/pressure you even further.
Can someone explain to me why the Mindreaver wagon is a thing? From my perspective, he's just voting someone who we all believe to be town (TS) and then actively interrogating/questioning him. I don't see anything that really stems from a scum mindset.
I'm being interrogated? Wow, news to me. I thought I was waiting for four people to answer unanswered questions. I do still see people misrepping me and saying that my vote on Proph was somehow related to an OMGUS. Firstly he didn't ever vote for me despite the misinformation being spread by Kraj. Secondly I voted him based on him saying that I voted Kraj for a reason he knew to be false. I also explained it pretty clearly.
You are being vague on purpose and I don't understand why. You are creating a false attack on Hunt.
I saw Hunt's question as trying to figure out not_a_gimmick's alignment, by asking him what he would do in Hunt's shoes.
@Hardwood-He doesn't appear to be asking for advice. He's confused to what you don't like because you are being vague. It's a completely fair question for him to ask.
This is the problem with not playing transparently. It leads to people seeking clarification and in this case you are actually trying to punish him for that which is annoying.