People who did the flavor claim business after ZDS's first post probably shouldn't be cleared for flavor spec since mafia either has fakeclaims (so they know what the **** is up) or Iso doesn't actually know how to make setups :). I don't see ZDS coming out immediately in the way he did and he has plenty of town-looking content to supplement that so it's all good.
The rest of my posts won't be nearly this annoying, I have a lot of catch up to do in a lot of places and so am making sure I don't fall behind everywhere!
Ok, tentative town reads on Tom & Mato (& Seppel?) for being in the same situation I am. Tentative scum reads on Tammy & Mindreaver for not taking part in our discussion, esp. Tammy for apparently having no idea what I was talking about.
Unvote
Vote: Tammy
If anyone asks I don't think Iso was forgetful enough to make townies this obvious, especially not after taking so much pride in making confusing role PMs for GoldenEye. I'm betting on Tom & Mato being genuinely confused.
I agree with these assessments. Tom sounded genuine in his confusion.
I've been playing mafia for about 5 years on several sites. I have several games on this site you should be able to find easily. You could also talk to nacho who's played with me the most out of anyone.
You could also realize you're being silly for attacking me for not knowing the mafia win condition, but hey!
But at least if you all recognize we all have pig names then you can get over this silly notion that people are somehow cleared if they bothered to read the win conditions and got confused. Gonna go out on a limb here and say any alignment would be. Also if someone points out that something is odd or wrong, anyone with half a brain could try to figure out what they mean if they were trying to get cleared by it. And scum themselves could have been genuinely confused and used that to give themselves an early easy peasy town read. You guys did this in the last game by clearing people for silly things and without caution and mafia stomped us. Don't do it again.
I have some ideas on what has stuck out to me. Some of which has already been discussed but I'll throw out the people that I took attention to on my initial read. I looked for scum mindset on this first pass. Not giving out any town passes yet.
For Tom posts #21 and #27 are going toward claiming which sticks me as out of character as I've seen him argue till his face was red saying that claiming is bad, pointless, etc. So this at least perks my interest as behavior I haven't seen in my games with Tom. #66 Nacho also noted but I wanted to mention that it also stood out to me. If you have "strong opinions" on alignment then you should be ready for some form of T/S list so it does come across as inconsistent for Tom to say he's not ready. #71 He votes Fable and wants a claim. Very aggressive, and again he's into drawing out claims again. I just haven't seen this before from Tom.
For Seppel- I think The Baconator is the most suspect of the name claims. They could all be real so this isn't a huge point to me but if there was a mod reveal that one of the claimed names was fake I would pick this one. And Seppel lies in most of the games I've played with him in so there is that. #82 Votes Tammy on the "we are all pigs" sentiment, which I sort of like, though I'm not familiar if Tammy is a push over or not. It seems like it could either be a sweet catch or a bad mislynch. More on Tammy below.
Vaimes #43 Seems like fluff. I'm not seeing much else that I don't like.
Fable #70 Is fluff too.
Tammy #55 Looking for the bad pigs. What? #58 Why is she confused? I'm confused on what she is confused about. Says she didn't read the Mafia win-con. That's a little gross. #62 Says we are all pigs. #79 Starts coming across as very defensive and says "you guys" threw the game to the scum last time for voting people for silly reasons. First off, who does "you guys" refer to? In addition, What were the silly reasons? Give me some concrete examples that somehow relate to this current situation. #85 votes Seppel sort of OMGUS, but I can understand this also being town feeling that they are getting picked on unfairly. I've felt that way before as well. #87 Claims people aren't playing Mafia. Not sure what she means by this. #89 She says that she thinks everyone has a pig-pun name so name-gaming is pointless but she has asked multiple times for people to name-claim for her “theory”.
So that's where I'm at so far.
Tammy seems like she may have made some slips already, but I'm not confident on that because again, I see some of myself in her defensive posts.
Tom seems different for the reasons I stated about. Maybe he's finally taken to claims? Still I want to keep an eye on him.
Seppel's entire argument against tammy was fluff. He spent more time talking about him name (which doesn't follow the same pattern the rest of the names do btw) than actually saying why he thought tammy was scum and then backed off when he saw it wasn't going anywhere.
Tammy and Seppel are both foods apparently, so he follows at least one other person's name style.
You don't get to just say you don't like my last post.
What parts didn't you like? Why didn't you like those specific parts?
I realize this wasn't directed at me, but you are totally wrong. You totally DO get to just say you don't like someone's post. Further explanation is permissible, sometimes welcome, never required. Which is such an obvious thing it just makes me wonder why you are seeming to freak out about it so much?
You are completely wrong here. You totally DON'T get to just say you don't like someone's post. Because there is a consequence, you will be put under pressure. I'd appreciate it if you put a bit more effort into the game Axelrod. But just so you understand how the game works he IS required to give further information as there is a consequence if he doesn't. Just like we are required to confirm we are in the game, we can choose to ignore the requirement but there are punishments for not following requirements.
Seriously, like, you're all over Vaimes, but not voting him. And when he notes your hesitation to vote, you give him this big "I have no reason to vote yet," thing:
.
I could almost ignore this as you just trying to be funny back at me, except it didn't look like you were trying to be funny. TS is inscrutable to me though. Everything he writes sounds fake.
I haven't seen anything suspicious from Vaimes. Seppel's been fine. ZDS fine. Tom fine. Fables T/S list is so terrible, he's...probably town too?
Scummiest are the lurkers: Nacho. Hunt. Mindreaver did something I didn't like. Tammy hasn't done anything to make me think she's town either.
You are trying to be obtuse. How does linking several people's posts and suggesting that they might be scum count as joking? Axelrod, do you really expect anyone to believe writing "Scum?" about two separate people with no other context is going to come across as joking? What's the joke? Fill us all in. Why is saying "scum?" to Huntzilla a joke? It wasn't a joke. You are posting fluff and trying to pass it off as being active.
These people have come across shaky or just outright scummy on day one. I realize that I might be wrong about some of you, don't be offended. Just help me find who should be on the list.
These people have come across shaky or just outright scummy on day one. I realize that I might be wrong about some of you, don't be offended. Just help me find who should be on the list.
Why don't you like Seppel, outside of the name/tendency to lie thing?
These people have come across shaky or just outright scummy on day one. I realize that I might be wrong about some of you, don't be offended. Just help me find who should be on the list.
Why don't you like Seppel, outside of the name/tendency to lie thing?
Seemed strange that he wanted to clear people based on name-claim. Said something to Nacho about he wants to clear him so he really needs the name claim. Sounded fake to me. Isn't Seppel experienced enough to know that he can't clear on something like that. Check out his iso, it's shaky IMO.
Hey huntz.
Talk to me about scum axel
Any impression of vaimes or nacho?
Vaimes seems to really be tempering himself towards TS, which makes sense given their history. I believe this to be a logical place for Vaimes to go after previous games and not wanting to poke the bear.
Nacho's reluctance to name his name is noteworthy, but could be totally nothing. He is not clearing Tammy right away, but is fencesitting a bit. Not sure I like that look at all. It's safe to say I have my eye on him.
And Scum axel... Why don't you tell me what you see in Axel first?
I wish Vaimes and TappingStones would stop acting like a married couple about to divorce. The only thing I get from their little fight is that they were already feuding before this game and it's getting in the way.
What's with the personal attack? I've said nothing bad to you. Don't get all salty because you have a few votes on you, man be a good sport, old sport.
You both need to calm the **** down with personal attacks.
Nacho: Is your name not a pig-pun?
Tammy: What's your opinion on how strongly Fable has been attacking back whoever is attacking you?
Mindreaver: Can you detail what made you change your mind on Vaimes? He's been fairly consistent.
Axelrod is light on content but the little analysis he does give is sharp and relevant, so, he's fine.
I'll be surprised if Huntzilla's reactions (in #212) really were written "in real time as [he went]", considering how unoriginal they are.
TappingStones's #216 gives me a strong "relatively inexperienced player who thinks he's hot *****" vibe. See also Dunning-Kruger effect. Him trying to give Axelrod a Mafia lesson is borderline funny, but it's also real gutsy if he's scum.
Nacho's triple post (#209, #210, #211) is extremely light on content. Rather than him catching up, it's more like he's signalling is presence and continuing whatever conversations he's involved in, even though they have zero relevance anymore.
Vote: Nachomamma8
So what you are saying is it isn't believable that when reading through I ended up at the same conclusions as others when reading the same words? What a very underhanded way of throwing shade my way.
What way should I have responded? What does the "unoriginal" nature of my thoughts say about my alignment?
Tammy: What's your opinion on how strongly Fable has been attacking back whoever is attacking you?
This is not what I've been doing, yes I've gone after seppel and vaimes but not because they've been attacking tammy. Perhaps it would be more correct to say it was because I didn't like their offence rather than me coming to tammy's defense. Seppel attack was extremely weak and he backed off rather quickly once he realized as such, and vaimes has been pushing tammy quite hard despite saying he's only "poking things" which I already said I don't buy. Both cases seemed very opportunistic and I didn't like either, you'll notice I haven't been attacking you much or at all really so it should be obvious that I'm using some discretion in my attacks and tammy is not the sole factor not to mention I'm not particularly fond of what Axel is doing and he isn't attacking tammy at all iirc.
I wish Vaimes and TappingStones would stop acting like a married couple about to divorce. The only thing I get from their little fight is that they were already feuding before this game and it's getting in the way.
What's with the personal attack? I've said nothing bad to you. Don't get all salty because you have a few votes on you, man be a good sport, old sport.
You both need to calm the **** down with personal attacks.
Nacho: Is your name not a pig-pun?
Tammy: What's your opinion on how strongly Fable has been attacking back whoever is attacking you?
Mindreaver: Can you detail what made you change your mind on Vaimes? He's been fairly consistent.
Axelrod is light on content but the little analysis he does give is sharp and relevant, so, he's fine.
I'll be surprised if Huntzilla's reactions (in #212) really were written "in real time as [he went]", considering how unoriginal they are.
TappingStones's #216 gives me a strong "relatively inexperienced player who thinks he's hot *****" vibe. See also Dunning-Kruger effect. Him trying to give Axelrod a Mafia lesson is borderline funny, but it's also real gutsy if he's scum.
Nacho's triple post (#209, #210, #211) is extremely light on content. Rather than him catching up, it's more like he's signalling is presence and continuing whatever conversations he's involved in, even though they have zero relevance anymore.
Vote: Nachomamma8
I'm aware that a lot of the play on this site is part of a "good ole boys" network but it's bizarre for you to say Axelrod's content has been good. My comment to Vaimes, which he mistakenly tried to give me a lesson on, just screamed that he isn't paying attention. Then he responses to my post and then Hunt's posts with a lazy one word testing the waters type post. Then when scolded on it, claims he was "joking". I mean, what are we supposed to think when someone makes mistakes, doesn't appear to be reading the game and then says he was joking?
If you want to hold people on pedastols that's fine, but Axelrod is not above reproach and his play has been found wanting.
I wish Vaimes and TappingStones would stop acting like a married couple about to divorce. The only thing I get from their little fight is that they were already feuding before this game and it's getting in the way.
What's with the personal attack? I've said nothing bad to you. Don't get all salty because you have a few votes on you, man be a good sport, old sport.
You both need to calm the **** down with personal attacks.
Nacho: Is your name not a pig-pun?
Tammy: What's your opinion on how strongly Fable has been attacking back whoever is attacking you?
Mindreaver: Can you detail what made you change your mind on Vaimes? He's been fairly consistent.
Axelrod is light on content but the little analysis he does give is sharp and relevant, so, he's fine.
I'll be surprised if Huntzilla's reactions (in #212) really were written "in real time as [he went]", considering how unoriginal they are.
TappingStones's #216 gives me a strong "relatively inexperienced player who thinks he's hot *****" vibe. See also Dunning-Kruger effect. Him trying to give Axelrod a Mafia lesson is borderline funny, but it's also real gutsy if he's scum.
Nacho's triple post (#209, #210, #211) is extremely light on content. Rather than him catching up, it's more like he's signalling is presence and continuing whatever conversations he's involved in, even though they have zero relevance anymore.
Vote: Nachomamma8
So what you are saying is it isn't believable that when reading through I ended up at the same conclusions as others when reading the same words? What a very underhanded way of throwing shade my way.
What way should I have responded? What does the "unoriginal" nature of my thoughts say about my alignment?
Essentially, we are supposed to bow down before Axelrod. Even when he isn't helping us scum hunt nor putting in any effort to be transparent. Call someone scum, when they pressure you, get defensive and say you were joking.
And since people are commenting on Vaimes. Vaimes looks to start little squabbles with me in every game I've played with him. I was dismissive of him during the end of a long day in the first game I played with him and he's gone after me with comments ever since. I have no clue what he expects from me and I'm perfectly happy to play a game with him and enjoy it. So let's just bury the hatchet, ok?
Seppel's entire argument against tammy was fluff. He spent more time talking about him name (which doesn't follow the same pattern the rest of the names do btw) than actually saying why he thought tammy was scum and then backed off when he saw it wasn't going anywhere.
So you're saying you'd continue an attack that isn't going anywhere? Please elaborate.
My last offsite scumgame was embarrassingly awful, and if I can get away with it, I'd rather not put it on display.
Fair enough, I don't want to use off-site meta anyway.
But remember when I caught that you weren't town in AA? Because you were posting fluff. Well, here you are pushing things that don't seem to be there, as if trying to manufacture reads. Everyone wanted to dismiss me and town read you in AA but I caught onto you from the beginning of day one.
I think based on my gut Vaimes is scum in this game. I will play the game normally and try to see if my feeling matches reality but this is not a Vaimes I have played with before. Pretty certain.
This reads like a TS townpost. Anyone disagree?
I'm curious because nothing else has read like a TS townpost.
These people have come across shaky or just outright scummy on day one. I realize that I might be wrong about some of you, don't be offended. Just help me find who should be on the list.
Definitely not Axelrod. He's so town.
I'd prefer sights be set on Huntzilla, Vaimes, Matowar, and Fable.
These people have come across shaky or just outright scummy on day one. I realize that I might be wrong about some of you, don't be offended. Just help me find who should be on the list.
Why don't you like Seppel, outside of the name/tendency to lie thing?
Seemed strange that he wanted to clear people based on name-claim. Said something to Nacho about he wants to clear him so he really needs the name claim. Sounded fake to me. Isn't Seppel experienced enough to know that he can't clear on something like that. Check out his iso, it's shaky IMO.
Well Nacho claimed and while I don't get his name at all, I townread him now.
Mindreaver: Can you detail what made you change your mind on Vaimes? He's been fairly consistent.
Sure.
To start out, my only experience with Vaimes was in Off the Grid, we were both town. In that game, his play early was to pick a fight with Killjoy (or get sucked into a fight with KJ, depending on your PoV). It was specifically to get interaction. It mirrors the TS exchange almost perfectly.
So that was why, when matowar (#146) asked for opinions about Vaimes/TS interaction, I responded that way. I didn't think either of them was really doing anything outside their known town behavioral subsets.
I know I'm biased because he's my favorite, but vaimes doesn't really pick the fights so much as allow himself to be drawn in.
But I agree its not really alignment indicative for either of them
Which I went on to disagree with. I didn't think Vaimes was "drawn in", that it was a deliberate tactic that I had seem him use before.
Ts also asks what I mean by "TS being TS" which I went on to clarify.
Here is where Vaimes goes of the rails a bit. First, pushes on Tammy in #166, while at the same time tying her to TS (which I don't think there is evidence for a Tammy/TS scumteam). Then #168 "I'm not scum" post. Then #169 where he can change his usertitle (fluff post). #174 "I'm holding onto my townreads until the end of the day", when asked. Which by itself would have been fine, but in this progression struck me as odd, especially when he's pushing TS for a Tammy read in the same post.
Okay now I've gotten myself sucked into the TS vortex.
Time for a break. o/
Which as I posted above, is an echo of what Tom presented. Similar language. As if "Tom provided me an out, I'll take it". Which I thought was odd, because in #125, there is an appeal to just drop the whole exchange: "In the interest of nipping this conversation in the bud, because I totally know where it's going (the answer is "south"), how about we stop interacting with each other for a bit?" Which implies he just doesn't want to clutter the thread with something that isn't going anywhere (nipping this in the bud, so to speak). Why two excuses for dropping the TS exchange?
But then, when asked about Tammy, he's saying in #179 "It's less being certain and more I'm just poking things with a stick/thwacking a pinata and seeing what comes out." I took this as awareness that I had given him an excuse for his behavior earlier (Vaimes like to pick a fight VS I'm just poking with a stick).
Then #181. "That was a general statement. In this case, at this very moment, Tammy is my pinata." So in general, he likes provoking people D1. I can understand reading this as consistency. I don't like that it was specifically mentioned (by me) as Vaimes town behavior, and then he highlighted it.
So that's why he's got my attention. Although, I haven't forgotten Matowar, and am waiting for his response.
No I'm saying I wouldn't attack anyone without having a solid reasoning first. Your attack on tammy obviously wasn't thought through in any meaningful way which is why it failed.
No I'm saying I wouldn't attack anyone without having a solid reasoning first. Your attack on tammy obviously wasn't thought through in any meaningful way which is why it failed.
We have different playstyles, then. I think being ambitious is a very good thing to do. Whereas you believe that my attack failed, I see that I got a better read on Tammy, which in my opinion is a success.
And since people are commenting on Vaimes. Vaimes looks to start little squabbles with me in every game I've played with him. I was dismissive of him during the end of a long day in the first game I played with him and he's gone after me with comments ever since. I have no clue what he expects from me and I'm perfectly happy to play a game with him and enjoy it. So let's just bury the hatchet, ok?
I would love that.
@Mindreaver
Comparing the way I approach Killjoy and TappingStones is pointless. TS is special. Holding onto my townreads and asking TS to explain what at the time looked to be a very, very light scumlean (he implied he disliked Tammy more than he liked her but wasn't sure enough to vote) are apples and oranges. I'm guessing you haven't read my past games with TS, but I'm not gonna get into it now because the hatched has been buried. Feel free to read them to get a better idea of why I'd want to cut off certain discussions with him.
And maybe we have different valuations for what constitutes poking vs. attacking. Shrug.
@TS
I don't really know how to read Seppel, given his reputation for being Out There. So I'm just gonna read the people around him. Given my scumread on Tammmy and the likelihood of them being NKA, I'm townreading him.
And since people are commenting on Vaimes. Vaimes looks to start little squabbles with me in every game I've played with him. I was dismissive of him during the end of a long day in the first game I played with him and he's gone after me with comments ever since. I have no clue what he expects from me and I'm perfectly happy to play a game with him and enjoy it. So let's just bury the hatchet, ok?
I would love that.
@Mindreaver
Comparing the way I approach Killjoy and TappingStones is pointless. TS is special. Holding onto my townreads and asking TS to explain what at the time looked to be a very, very light scumlean (he implied he disliked Tammy more than he liked her but wasn't sure enough to vote) are apples and oranges. I'm guessing you haven't read my past games with TS, but I'm not gonna get into it now because the hatched has been buried. Feel free to read them to get a better idea of why I'd want to cut off certain discussions with him.
And maybe we have different valuations for what constitutes poking vs. attacking. Shrug.
@TS
I don't really know how to read Seppel, given his reputation for being Out There. So I'm just gonna read the people around him. Given my scumread on Tammmy and the likelihood of them being NKA, I'm townreading him.
Don't fall into the "I can't read Seppel" nonsense.
I find that keeping an eye on players I find hard to read and seeing how they interact with others works just as well, and saves me a lot of stress in the long run.
I wasn't trying to speak for tammy I was clarifying my actions since you were misrepping them.
Also ideally if town is doing it's job in being transparent scum wouldn't be able to make a well reasoned attack against a townie, I'll admit this is rarely how games play out however.
Weird to me that you wouldn't ask me about it. Why are more concerned with others seeing you make a quote then finding out why something is "weird"?
because that seems rhetorical to me
I assure it isn't.
To put it another way, Why wouldn't you ask me if you are wondering why I said something? Seems like you are trying to make a show of it and tiptoe through the tulips.
To put it another way, Why wouldn't you ask me if you are wondering why I said something? Seems like you are trying to make a show of it and tiptoe through the tulips.
i assure you that i dont have to ask you direct questions to get reactions
Tammy is scum and needs to be lynched. I originally wanted to hold off on waiting for her to show up but I know she's had time to check in today and I can't imagine her just flat out ignoring this game for that entire segment of time. Not sure of the VC but am 90% confident this isn't a hammer; make sure that you don't hammer before she has a chance to check in, but this is the lynch that's happening today.
Nacho's triple post (#209, #210, #211) is extremely light on content. Rather than him catching up, it's more like he's signalling is presence and continuing whatever conversations he's involved in, even though they have zero relevance anymore.
This is not a great attack.
For one, I said that I was rushing catching up in a lot of places, so it shouldn't surprise you that my catch up post was light on content or why you think that's indicative of scum over town unless you disagree with the directions that I'm taking (my catchup was mostly focused on solidifying some reads that were forming, namely Tammy-scum and the townreads that I've named). Despite my catchup post being light, I don't think that I've glossed over anything significant except Vaimes/TS posting which I'm not overly interested in because both will be better when they're posting elsewhere and talk of flavor and win conditions which obviously doesn't interest me in the least bit and is the type of argument that could be right, but could also be ****ed pretty completely with a proper fakeclaim and I'd rather not read people like that if I can avoid it.
As for the "irrelevant" point, are you seriously scumreading me for bantering about names to Vaimes and Seppel? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
If you're not talking about those two quotes, I'm not sure what I talked about that was irrelevant; most other quotes were either giving glimpses into the four townreads I talked about at the end of my triplepost or they were talking about my budding scumread on Tammy.
Hey huntz.
Talk to me about scum axel
Any impression of vaimes or nacho?
Vaimes seems to really be tempering himself towards TS, which makes sense given their history. I believe this to be a logical place for Vaimes to go after previous games and not wanting to poke the bear.
Nacho's reluctance to name his name is noteworthy, but could be totally nothing. He is not clearing Tammy right away, but is fencesitting a bit. Not sure I like that look at all. It's safe to say I have my eye on him.
And Scum axel... Why don't you tell me what you see in Axel first?
I am careful to scumread people that I'm close to; Tammy in particular is someone that I've told many many many times that I mislynching her was one of my goals as a scum player, so I tend to be pretty gunshy about pushing her with any sort of strength or conviction until I'm absolutely sure or I have a pretty good idea that she's not a good girl.
I already named my name several times; I'm Walter Wolf of Wolf Appliance Repair.
It's not so much that she lurks but that she doesn't have the same emotion/engagement that she does as town. Would not be overly surprised if she lurked in this particular game, though.
Tappingstones deserves a longer post than I have time to give. He's so blatantly mis-characterizing my actions and our little exchange that I have trouble seeing it coming from a Town mindset, but, as per prior remark, I think I have no insight into the TS mindset period.
I am not a fan of what Nacho is doing re: name-claiming. I can think of a couple reasons and two of them are scummy. That said, I'll echo this sentiment:
Why indeed? Hunt has been terrible. Especially the part where he voted me for "claiming." In what world does that make any kind of sense?
I also apologize if I am missing any questions being directed my way. I'm trying to get on at least once a day, but it's not always for very long.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Interesting, well I do have tammy on a timer so if she doesn't do something soon I could see myself getting onto that wagon. Not my first choice but I have no interest in keeping an inactive player around and her death would put the events of the early game into perspective.
Interesting, well I do have tammy on a timer so if she doesn't do something soon I could see myself getting onto that wagon. Not my first choice but I have no interest in keeping an inactive player around and her death would put the events of the early game into perspective.
I don't like lurkers. You don't have to like my position on the topic but don't expect it to ever change, I've lost to many games to lurker scum teams to be okay with it.
I also retract anything I said that might have been construed as a Town-read on Fable....
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Well I certainly didn't mean it that way. I was saying I would add tammy to the list of people I would be okay lynching today if she didn't start posting soon. Right now the list is...
Vaimes
Seppel
Axel
Tammy(if she isn't active soon)
That pile I talked about with tammy and matowar:
They are both absolutely necessary mislynches this game if town, and prime bus candidates if scum.
Huntz' posts about the two of them have been awful
That pile I talked about with tammy and matowar:
They are both absolutely necessary mislynches this game if town, and prime bus candidates if scum.
Huntz' posts about the two of them have been awful
NOPE! x1000
I'm okay lynching people if there is any chance of being scum and accept that more often then not I'm going to be wrong but mislynches of never necessary and you never mislynch on purpose.
ZDS
Seppel
Fable
Axel
People who did the flavor claim business after ZDS's first post probably shouldn't be cleared for flavor spec since mafia either has fakeclaims (so they know what the **** is up) or Iso doesn't actually know how to make setups :). I don't see ZDS coming out immediately in the way he did and he has plenty of town-looking content to supplement that so it's all good.
The rest of my posts won't be nearly this annoying, I have a lot of catch up to do in a lot of places and so am making sure I don't fall behind everywhere!
I agree with these assessments. Tom sounded genuine in his confusion.
Why? Wow, that actually looks like a legit slip. Whatcha want new-to-me guy? Looks scummy to me! Are you claiming? yes, you are claiming
Unvote
Vote Axel Nah, this is for sure still Townie TS.
Yes! Thank you.
Yeah. Not pretty. I think Mato has splinters in his ass from the amount of fencesitting he does. Any reason why? Tammy and Seppel are both foods apparently, so he follows at least one other person's name style. Cartoon or real life?
Well that's about it for now. Scum-reading Tammy and Axel.
ZDS and Seppel are my most solid town reads right now. TS is close up there, I just don't want to write him off that quickly.
Talk to me about scum axel
Any impression of vaimes or nacho?
He's not a big fan on transparency, unfortunately.
I don't think tom would appreciate it if you tried to seduce me.
(I have no idea what this means but it made me laugh.)
You are completely wrong here. You totally DON'T get to just say you don't like someone's post. Because there is a consequence, you will be put under pressure. I'd appreciate it if you put a bit more effort into the game Axelrod. But just so you understand how the game works he IS required to give further information as there is a consequence if he doesn't. Just like we are required to confirm we are in the game, we can choose to ignore the requirement but there are punishments for not following requirements.
You are trying to be obtuse. How does linking several people's posts and suggesting that they might be scum count as joking? Axelrod, do you really expect anyone to believe writing "Scum?" about two separate people with no other context is going to come across as joking? What's the joke? Fill us all in. Why is saying "scum?" to Huntzilla a joke? It wasn't a joke. You are posting fluff and trying to pass it off as being active.
Scum?
Let's talk about mato. Should we just worry about him in lylo again?
Vaimes
Axelrod
Seppel
and slightly lower down
Tammy
These people have come across shaky or just outright scummy on day one. I realize that I might be wrong about some of you, don't be offended. Just help me find who should be on the list.
Mato is capable of clearing himself early if he's town, which is something I'm looking out for.
Personally, I don't want him to ever reach LyLo as either alignment (unless he takes the time and effort to reevaluate as town).
Why don't you like Seppel, outside of the name/tendency to lie thing?
Seemed strange that he wanted to clear people based on name-claim. Said something to Nacho about he wants to clear him so he really needs the name claim. Sounded fake to me. Isn't Seppel experienced enough to know that he can't clear on something like that. Check out his iso, it's shaky IMO.
Weird to me that you wouldn't ask me about it. Why are more concerned with others seeing you make a quote then finding out why something is "weird"?
Vaimes seems to really be tempering himself towards TS, which makes sense given their history. I believe this to be a logical place for Vaimes to go after previous games and not wanting to poke the bear.
Nacho's reluctance to name his name is noteworthy, but could be totally nothing. He is not clearing Tammy right away, but is fencesitting a bit. Not sure I like that look at all. It's safe to say I have my eye on him.
And Scum axel... Why don't you tell me what you see in Axel first?
What way should I have responded? What does the "unoriginal" nature of my thoughts say about my alignment?
This is not what I've been doing, yes I've gone after seppel and vaimes but not because they've been attacking tammy. Perhaps it would be more correct to say it was because I didn't like their offence rather than me coming to tammy's defense. Seppel attack was extremely weak and he backed off rather quickly once he realized as such, and vaimes has been pushing tammy quite hard despite saying he's only "poking things" which I already said I don't buy. Both cases seemed very opportunistic and I didn't like either, you'll notice I haven't been attacking you much or at all really so it should be obvious that I'm using some discretion in my attacks and tammy is not the sole factor not to mention I'm not particularly fond of what Axel is doing and he isn't attacking tammy at all iirc.
I'm aware that a lot of the play on this site is part of a "good ole boys" network but it's bizarre for you to say Axelrod's content has been good. My comment to Vaimes, which he mistakenly tried to give me a lesson on, just screamed that he isn't paying attention. Then he responses to my post and then Hunt's posts with a lazy one word testing the waters type post. Then when scolded on it, claims he was "joking". I mean, what are we supposed to think when someone makes mistakes, doesn't appear to be reading the game and then says he was joking?
If you want to hold people on pedastols that's fine, but Axelrod is not above reproach and his play has been found wanting.
Essentially, we are supposed to bow down before Axelrod. Even when he isn't helping us scum hunt nor putting in any effort to be transparent. Call someone scum, when they pressure you, get defensive and say you were joking.
So you're saying you'd continue an attack that isn't going anywhere? Please elaborate.
This reads like a TS townpost. Anyone disagree?
I'm curious because nothing else has read like a TS townpost.
Including reasons for all those reads would be much appreciated.
I swear I've seen Vaimes use this same line like 3 times before.
This is my all-time favorite Tom post.
Definitely not Axelrod. He's so town.
I'd prefer sights be set on Huntzilla, Vaimes, Matowar, and Fable.
Well Nacho claimed and while I don't get his name at all, I townread him now.
Sure.
To start out, my only experience with Vaimes was in Off the Grid, we were both town. In that game, his play early was to pick a fight with Killjoy (or get sucked into a fight with KJ, depending on your PoV). It was specifically to get interaction. It mirrors the TS exchange almost perfectly.
So that was why, when matowar (#146) asked for opinions about Vaimes/TS interaction, I responded that way. I didn't think either of them was really doing anything outside their known town behavioral subsets.
Tom immediately responded with:
Which I went on to disagree with. I didn't think Vaimes was "drawn in", that it was a deliberate tactic that I had seem him use before.
Ts also asks what I mean by "TS being TS" which I went on to clarify.
Here is where Vaimes goes of the rails a bit. First, pushes on Tammy in #166, while at the same time tying her to TS (which I don't think there is evidence for a Tammy/TS scumteam). Then #168 "I'm not scum" post. Then #169 where he can change his usertitle (fluff post). #174 "I'm holding onto my townreads until the end of the day", when asked. Which by itself would have been fine, but in this progression struck me as odd, especially when he's pushing TS for a Tammy read in the same post.
Then we get to #177: Which as I posted above, is an echo of what Tom presented. Similar language. As if "Tom provided me an out, I'll take it". Which I thought was odd, because in #125, there is an appeal to just drop the whole exchange: "In the interest of nipping this conversation in the bud, because I totally know where it's going (the answer is "south"), how about we stop interacting with each other for a bit?" Which implies he just doesn't want to clutter the thread with something that isn't going anywhere (nipping this in the bud, so to speak). Why two excuses for dropping the TS exchange?
But then, when asked about Tammy, he's saying in #179 "It's less being certain and more I'm just poking things with a stick/thwacking a pinata and seeing what comes out." I took this as awareness that I had given him an excuse for his behavior earlier (Vaimes like to pick a fight VS I'm just poking with a stick).
Then #181. "That was a general statement. In this case, at this very moment, Tammy is my pinata." So in general, he likes provoking people D1. I can understand reading this as consistency. I don't like that it was specifically mentioned (by me) as Vaimes town behavior, and then he highlighted it.
So that's why he's got my attention. Although, I haven't forgotten Matowar, and am waiting for his response.
Consider this an early sneak peek into my townreads.
I would love that.
@Mindreaver
Comparing the way I approach Killjoy and TappingStones is pointless. TS is special. Holding onto my townreads and asking TS to explain what at the time looked to be a very, very light scumlean (he implied he disliked Tammy more than he liked her but wasn't sure enough to vote) are apples and oranges. I'm guessing you haven't read my past games with TS, but I'm not gonna get into it now because the hatched has been buried. Feel free to read them to get a better idea of why I'd want to cut off certain discussions with him.
And maybe we have different valuations for what constitutes poking vs. attacking. Shrug.
@TS
I don't really know how to read Seppel, given his reputation for being Out There. So I'm just gonna read the people around him. Given my scumread on Tammmy and the likelihood of them being NKA, I'm townreading him.
Don't fall into the "I can't read Seppel" nonsense.
I find that keeping an eye on players I find hard to read and seeing how they interact with others works just as well, and saves me a lot of stress in the long run.
@Tom-You haven't answered my question.
because that seems rhetorical to me
Also ideally if town is doing it's job in being transparent scum wouldn't be able to make a well reasoned attack against a townie, I'll admit this is rarely how games play out however.
I assure it isn't.
To put it another way, Why wouldn't you ask me if you are wondering why I said something? Seems like you are trying to make a show of it and tiptoe through the tulips.
@Matowar-Who is scum?
Tammy is scum and needs to be lynched. I originally wanted to hold off on waiting for her to show up but I know she's had time to check in today and I can't imagine her just flat out ignoring this game for that entire segment of time. Not sure of the VC but am 90% confident this isn't a hammer; make sure that you don't hammer before she has a chance to check in, but this is the lynch that's happening today.
Nope. It's Peter "And The Wolf" Parker.
This is not a great attack.
For one, I said that I was rushing catching up in a lot of places, so it shouldn't surprise you that my catch up post was light on content or why you think that's indicative of scum over town unless you disagree with the directions that I'm taking (my catchup was mostly focused on solidifying some reads that were forming, namely Tammy-scum and the townreads that I've named). Despite my catchup post being light, I don't think that I've glossed over anything significant except Vaimes/TS posting which I'm not overly interested in because both will be better when they're posting elsewhere and talk of flavor and win conditions which obviously doesn't interest me in the least bit and is the type of argument that could be right, but could also be ****ed pretty completely with a proper fakeclaim and I'd rather not read people like that if I can avoid it.
As for the "irrelevant" point, are you seriously scumreading me for bantering about names to Vaimes and Seppel? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
If you're not talking about those two quotes, I'm not sure what I talked about that was irrelevant; most other quotes were either giving glimpses into the four townreads I talked about at the end of my triplepost or they were talking about my budding scumread on Tammy.
I am careful to scumread people that I'm close to; Tammy in particular is someone that I've told many many many times that I mislynching her was one of my goals as a scum player, so I tend to be pretty gunshy about pushing her with any sort of strength or conviction until I'm absolutely sure or I have a pretty good idea that she's not a good girl.
I already named my name several times; I'm Walter Wolf of Wolf Appliance Repair.
Does Tammy tend to lurk when she's scum?
I am not a fan of what Nacho is doing re: name-claiming. I can think of a couple reasons and two of them are scummy. That said, I'll echo this sentiment:
Why indeed? Hunt has been terrible. Especially the part where he voted me for "claiming." In what world does that make any kind of sense?
I also apologize if I am missing any questions being directed my way. I'm trying to get on at least once a day, but it's not always for very long.
Unvote:
Vote: Huntzilla
I also retract anything I said that might have been construed as a Town-read on Fable....
Vaimes
Seppel
Axel
Tammy(if she isn't active soon)
Everyone else is completely off the table for me.
unvote, vote huntz
That pile I talked about with tammy and matowar:
They are both absolutely necessary mislynches this game if town, and prime bus candidates if scum.
Huntz' posts about the two of them have been awful
NOPE! x1000
I'm okay lynching people if there is any chance of being scum and accept that more often then not I'm going to be wrong but mislynches of never necessary and you never mislynch on purpose.
Tammy/mato, if town, are mislynches scum need to get if they're going to win.
And their buddies will bus them if they're scum.
So yeah. I'm more interested in other people's treatment of them than their alignments.
I will make this game my first priority tomorrow morning when I get home.