Tammy isn't an easy mislynch as town like you're implying.
I don't really know one way or another. She was super townie in gossip, but that game was very odd. And that is my only experience.
But while mato is on that pile just for being mato, tammy is there for her entrance. She's been on her back foot the whole game, and scum should be pouncing.
Gossip was odd sure but Tammy wasn't town because of mechanics or anything like that; she was town because she played super duper town. She's only been mislynched once (in LyLo) after several years of pretty consistent mafia playing. I'm not really sure why you seem so unconcerned about the difference between her play here and there.
nacho's being incredibly ******* disingenuous and unfair and it's unfair that I can't really explain why but I don't believe for one second he makes this lame as ***** attack on me like it's so unlike me to not do something in the first few pages of a game when he knows that I have priorities elsewhere. He's allowed to not be on top of every single game he's in but for some reason i'm not allowed to not be right on top of everything. He knows for a fact that me not posting for a couple days is not alignment indicative at all. He knows very well that I didn't have tons of time today while making it seem like i'v done nothing but ignore this game. I don't have super great emotional involvmenet at the start of every game ,but whatever. I'm heading out the door right now and will get to this tomorrow.
And it's really really unlike him to come after me so soon in the start of a game. like he normally believes in giving me space. He has certain people that he gives space to day one and won't vote; I thought I was one of those people. Guess not. i don't think town him doesn't give me some space to do my thing. just really disappointed if he is actually town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That might have been the worst OMGUS vote I've ever seen. >_>
It's not omgus. I mean yes he does suck, but It's ,e having an extremely hard time with his current push on me at this moment. Nevermind that I'm town, I just don't think town him pushes me this way.
You're acting like he's never misread you before when I'm almost 100% sure he has. So I'm not sure if the emotional outburst is warranted, that's what's bothering me.
I don't think that it's unreasonable for me to have concerns and push you. I really didn't like that I was starting to get paranoid of you for what I didn't think were ridiculous reasons, but you didn't end up responding to me when I had them. I know that you were tired and all, but also knew that you probably saw me suspecting you at the top of the page and sort of expected a "hey Nacho I just haven't gotten the chance to do things yet" or "man Nacho's suspicion on me looks like bull*****", and I don't think it's unreasonable for this to bother me when you tend to be uncomfortable with responding to my reads on you as scum.
I know you're not involved early all the time. I know you don't have great emotional investment early all the time. I expected emotional investment in this game in particular because you've randed scum a lot recently and I figured you would be excited to be town in this one.
I don't mind giving people space when they ask for it, but me not voting people Day 1 because of who they are is not really something that I've done in a while and I don't know why you would expect me to hold off voting you when I have a scumread on you when I've voted you Day 1 when I've scumread you in the past (too many heads, the one time I did).
I'm uncomfortable with this interaction because I'm not really sure what line I'm crossing or why this is *****ty of me to do if I'm town; I might have gotten a bit overaggressive in my push on you but I don't think that the basis of it is completely unreasonable or completely disingenuous.
Uh nacho, I don't know if you noticed but you just contradicted yourself. You just said you expected emotional investment from tammy in this game when previously you said you wouldn't be surprised if she lurked this game. What gives?
Tom, explain this Tammy/Mato thing to me. Why are these specific mislynches necessary for a scumwin?
cuz this game is stacked.
zds, ax, vaimes, nacho, and tapping are all very hard mislynches to get. seppel (and probably me) is a wildcard, and you are rapidly leaving your early mislynch days.
now obviously pretty unlikely that all those are town, but definitely some number of them are. and scum need minimum 3 mislynches to win.
those have to come from somewhere.
Tom please tell me you see that axel, vaimes, and nacho all have people voting for them. What your saying right now is complete nonsense.
sure, they have votes.
but except maybe ZDS' on nacho and mindreaver's on vaimes, all those votes are terrible.
the people i mentioned are hard to lynch. especially nacho/axelrod when they decide to turn it on and tapping because he just makes it so unpleasant to scumread him.
Tom, explain this Tammy/Mato thing to me. Why are these specific mislynches necessary for a scumwin?
cuz this game is stacked.
zds, ax, vaimes, nacho, and tapping are all very hard mislynches to get. seppel (and probably me) is a wildcard, and you are rapidly leaving your early mislynch days.
now obviously pretty unlikely that all those are town, but definitely some number of them are. and scum need minimum 3 mislynches to win.
those have to come from somewhere.
Appealing to my dazzling play will get you... everything.
Tappingstones deserves a longer post than I have time to give. He's so blatantly mis-characterizing my actions and our little exchange that I have trouble seeing it coming from a Town mindset, but, as per prior remark, I think I have no insight into the TS mindset period.
I am not a fan of what Nacho is doing re: name-claiming. I can think of a couple reasons and two of them are scummy. That said, I'll echo this sentiment:
Why indeed? Hunt has been terrible. Especially the part where he voted me for "claiming." In what world does that make any kind of sense?
I also apologize if I am missing any questions being directed my way. I'm trying to get on at least once a day, but it's not always for very long.
Why are you mischaracterizing what everyone is doing? Is that your normal game? You have been terrible, Hunt has not been terrible. Doesn't mean he's town or you are scum but your play has been lazy and relied on back-up from friends based on some kind of reputation system and it's really unpleasant to play with.
Tammy is scum and needs to be lynched. I originally wanted to hold off on waiting for her to show up but I know she's had time to check in today and I can't imagine her just flat out ignoring this game for that entire segment of time. Not sure of the VC but am 90% confident this isn't a hammer; make sure that you don't hammer before she has a chance to check in, but this is the lynch that's happening today.
Maybe I am just a stupid $%#$ after all and I've been trying to put together the words to tell you why this bothers me as much as it does but i don't think i'll be able to adequately do that. Maybe it's because you express knowledge of the time I had today but don't take anything else into account. You make it sound like I had tons of time and did nothing but ignore this game, but you know very well that i was focused elsewhere for the couple hours I had this morning. Didn't get a lot of stuff done that i wanted to get done today as I was barely functioning, coming here was one of them. I did skim this game Wednesday night and saw your post and planned to respond to it today, but i in part didn't because i was focused elsewhere. This game might not be overly dense but there is a little of it, and maybe just maybe in the crappy ass mood I've been in since yesterday, coming here to defend the stupid accusation of a slip when I just didn't know the flavor of the game was not the first of my desires. Still planned to come in here today, just ran out of steam. Why wouldn't I ignore a game? you've seen me ignore plenty of games for several days at a time. Maybe I just need to stop playing games with friends. You say you know how much time i had today, so in knowing that you also know how *****ty the past couple of days have been for me and how upset i've been, and what you really felt you needed to do TODAY, in a game where deadline is two weeks away so nothing is pressing is either reaction test me to see if I get properly pissed off by a push or demand for my head on a platter because i didn't hop to it to respond. you seriously couldn't have waited a day to see my response? Maybe that's a silly expectation, i don't know, but i don't have the energy or desire to fight so just lynch me and get it over with.
That pile I talked about with tammy and matowar:
They are both absolutely necessary mislynches this game if town, and prime bus candidates if scum.
Huntz' posts about the two of them have been awful
I simply commented about Mato's fencesitting behavior. I made no indication of whether that was alignment indicative or not. Which, by the way, I don't feel it is in and of itself. Mato fencesits like a champ as either alignment in my experience with him. Now, if he's scum, we will know sooner rather than later, and he will probably name most of his scum buddies when he does it. (see Goldeneye for reference)
Tom, explain this Tammy/Mato thing to me. Why are these specific mislynches necessary for a scumwin?
cuz this game is stacked.
zds, ax, vaimes, nacho, and tapping are all very hard mislynches to get. seppel (and probably me) is a wildcard, and you are rapidly leaving your early mislynch days.
now obviously pretty unlikely that all those are town, but definitely some number of them are. and scum need minimum 3 mislynches to win.
those have to come from somewhere.
So you conveniently leave out Fable and myself from your list. Don't you think that Fable is an easy mislynch, being new-to-us? Don't you feel I could be an early mislynch because of foot-in-Huntz syndrome? Why is it you chose to leave off noth of us?
Not to mention, the only times you have pushed for me are when you were scum (or I was the SK that one time). Does that mean you are claiming scum my good sir?
You're acting like he's never misread you before when I'm almost 100% sure he has. So I'm not sure if the emotional outburst is warranted, that's what's bothering me.
In my limited experience with the two he has been correct about her very early on. This was the reason I made mention of him not choosing a side on her yet in my earlier post.
I wasn't trying to speak for tammy I was clarifying my actions since you were misrepping them.
Also ideally if town is doing it's job in being transparent scum wouldn't be able to make a well reasoned attack against a townie, I'll admit this is rarely how games play out however.
This statement is the inverse of your original message, which doesn't translate to the same thing.
"Scum can't make a good case on town if town is good"
is not the same as
"The case was bad, therefore the writer is scum"
Please try to stay on topic here instead of delving into unrelated rhetoric.
That pile I talked about with tammy and matowar:
They are both absolutely necessary mislynches this game if town, and prime bus candidates if scum.
Huntz' posts about the two of them have been awful
NOPE! x1000
I'm okay lynching people if there is any chance of being scum and accept that more often then not I'm going to be wrong but mislynches of never necessary and you never mislynch on purpose.
Excuse me, but where is your case that Huntzilla is town?
And now you'll just vote Nacho? But not Huntzilla for the same reasons? Beautiful.
I invite everyone to look at Fable's past 24 hours and realize that it began with a very strong I WILL ONLY VOTE THESE THREE PEOPLE. (Vaimes, me, and someone else)
Then when faced with 3 other wagons (Tammy, Nacho, Huntzilla), Huntzilla was the only one who Fable strongly said would not get a vote.
Fable is scum. Hunt is a buddy. Tammy and Nacho are cleared town.
So you conveniently leave out Fable and myself from your list. Don't you think that Fable is an easy mislynch, being new-to-us? Don't you feel I could be an early mislynch because of foot-in-Huntz syndrome? Why is it you chose to leave off noth of us?
Not to mention, the only times you have pushed for me are when you were scum (or I was the SK that one time). Does that mean you are claiming scum my good sir?
I'm still not completely sure where to put you on the list. We have a special relationship, but you are also a moving target. I want to put you in the mindreaver category as well as the seppel/me category.
Fable is an unknown. I've only seen him in [redacted].
But yes, scumreading you clearly means I am scum.
Lynch me
It looks like Fable just misread tom's quote as "Hunt is a necessary mislynch" or something and reacted like tom was proposing we lynch town on purpose. If anything, Fable's reaction to tom's post looks like a TMI slip.
Hey tom, what's your read on Fable? The whole enchilada.
This may seem strange to you, but I think he's town.
He's kind of all over the place in a way that scum wouldn't be able to keep straight.
I don't think he's dialed into the game flow, nor making any attempt to.
I see no signs of fable trying to hide or have any consensus reads.
It looks to me like town playing with a bunch of strangers and adjusting on the fly whenever new information is presented.
Fable:
- cleared Tammy, but left some wiggle room in the read to vote/bus if necessary
- townreads tom for "tone" alone
- seems mad that I'm focusing on Tammy. Annoyed at me for pursuing a buddy?
- claims that supporting a wagon that you don't start yourself is opportunistic (incorrect)
- bad/overexplainy response to ZDS: "I wasn't going after Seppel/Vaimes for attacking Tammy, I just didn't like the fact that they were attacking Tammy!" Pretty much just rephrased what ZDS said but tried to make it sound reasonable
- This post:: pretty much telling Tammy to post or get bussed. Goes out of his way to explain that a Tammy wagon isn't his first choice but justifies it with "she's lurking" and "her flip will clarify things from early game"
- already talked about the TMI thing with Hunt
tom:
- Before looking back at his posts, tom seems so much more UTR this game. Normally he's the center of attention, but here his presence is sorely lacking
- His posts are more fluff than gamesolving
- asks everyone for thoughts on Tammy; completely forgets about it
- Never explains the Seppel vote
They have multiple throwaway interactions that never go anywhere. Some lines of questioning are completely dropped or ignored.
Fable:
- cleared Tammy, but left some wiggle room in the read to vote/bus if necessary
- townreads tom for "tone" alone
- seems mad that I'm focusing on Tammy. Annoyed at me for pursuing a buddy?
- claims that supporting a wagon that you don't start yourself is opportunistic (incorrect)
- bad/overexplainy response to ZDS: "I wasn't going after Seppel/Vaimes for attacking Tammy, I just didn't like the fact that they were attacking Tammy!" Pretty much just rephrased what ZDS said but tried to make it sound reasonable
- This post:: pretty much telling Tammy to post or get bussed. Goes out of his way to explain that a Tammy wagon isn't his first choice but justifies it with "she's lurking" and "her flip will clarify things from early game"
- already talked about the TMI thing with Hunt
tom:
- Before looking back at his posts, tom seems so much more UTR this game. Normally he's the center of attention, but here his presence is sorely lacking
- His posts are more fluff than gamesolving
- asks everyone for thoughts on Tammy; completely forgets about it
- Never explains the Seppel vote
They have multiple throwaway interactions that never go anywhere. Some lines of questioning are completely dropped or ignored.
I ship it.
I wish you had held back on that post. I literally just asked Hunt and Fable to look at Tom's iso because I wanted to see if Fable noticed those things independently. I through in Hunt so it wouldn't be so obvious.
I most certainly did not forget about tammy. It's the mislynch/bus thing I talked about at great length.
Which is also why the seppel vote. I can't find it right now, but there was a post where he connected the two of them, moving from mato to tammy (or possibly vice versa) but still left the other as a possibility.
And I don't think I've been UTR, but I am in a ***** ton of games right now and in the middle of a mozart festival so, you know. Suck eggs.
Hmm. Not everyone is here yet.
Way too early for a w/p list...
I have super strong opinions though.
I mentioned that this bothered me before and it still does. Can anyone else decipher this from a town mindset? It's way to early for him to give some reads, even though he has reads?
Then in consecutive posts jokes about asking for a Fable scum claim and then asks me if I'm scum.
The some fluff sort of flying UTR posts.
Why is Tom so different this game. It reminds me of Stargate when he said he was "trying some different things" one of those different things was being scum.
The ISO has tons of fluff. Really careful stuff.
I'd like Tom as the lynch today, if I can't have that then Vaimes looks pretty tasty.
unvote
vote:Tammy
Tammy isn't an easy mislynch as town like you're implying.
But while mato is on that pile just for being mato, tammy is there for her entrance. She's been on her back foot the whole game, and scum should be pouncing.
*#$% you
I have her >randscum, but not by a lot. And I think a lot of the "reads" on her are not actually based on anything alignment indicative.
Let it out.
Eh, it's a 50/50 depends heavily around the context around it.
Whatever.
Tammy (3): Vaimes, Nachomamma8, Fable07
Matowar77 (1): Seppel
Vaimes (2): Mindreaver, TappingStones
Axelrod (1): Huntzilla
Nachomamma8 (2): ZeDorkSlipeur, Tammy
Huntzilla (2): Axelrod, tomsloger
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's not omgus. I mean yes he does suck, but It's ,e having an extremely hard time with his current push on me at this moment. Nevermind that I'm town, I just don't think town him pushes me this way.
I don't think that it's unreasonable for me to have concerns and push you. I really didn't like that I was starting to get paranoid of you for what I didn't think were ridiculous reasons, but you didn't end up responding to me when I had them. I know that you were tired and all, but also knew that you probably saw me suspecting you at the top of the page and sort of expected a "hey Nacho I just haven't gotten the chance to do things yet" or "man Nacho's suspicion on me looks like bull*****", and I don't think it's unreasonable for this to bother me when you tend to be uncomfortable with responding to my reads on you as scum.
I know you're not involved early all the time. I know you don't have great emotional investment early all the time. I expected emotional investment in this game in particular because you've randed scum a lot recently and I figured you would be excited to be town in this one.
I don't mind giving people space when they ask for it, but me not voting people Day 1 because of who they are is not really something that I've done in a while and I don't know why you would expect me to hold off voting you when I have a scumread on you when I've voted you Day 1 when I've scumread you in the past (too many heads, the one time I did).
I'm uncomfortable with this interaction because I'm not really sure what line I'm crossing or why this is *****ty of me to do if I'm town; I might have gotten a bit overaggressive in my push on you but I don't think that the basis of it is completely unreasonable or completely disingenuous.
We're roughly where I thought we were, carry on.
Tom, explain this Tammy/Mato thing to me. Why are these specific mislynches necessary for a scumwin?
zds, ax, vaimes, nacho, and tapping are all very hard mislynches to get. seppel (and probably me) is a wildcard, and you are rapidly leaving your early mislynch days.
now obviously pretty unlikely that all those are town, but definitely some number of them are. and scum need minimum 3 mislynches to win.
those have to come from somewhere.
but except maybe ZDS' on nacho and mindreaver's on vaimes, all those votes are terrible.
the people i mentioned are hard to lynch. especially nacho/axelrod when they decide to turn it on and tapping because he just makes it so unpleasant to scumread him.
Why are you mischaracterizing what everyone is doing? Is that your normal game? You have been terrible, Hunt has not been terrible. Doesn't mean he's town or you are scum but your play has been lazy and relied on back-up from friends based on some kind of reputation system and it's really unpleasant to play with.
I get that Hunt does bad things sometimes, but I assure you, it isn't alignment indicative. It's part of what makes him such an easy early mislynch.
I'll get into my townread of him later (or earlier, depending on wagon shenanigans). Don't really want to scumcoach if I'm wrong on him.
Seriously?
Re: her next couple of posts: ehhh. I'm a sucker for emotional appeals and kind of just want to ignore it.
Ugh.
Eh, this is kind of outside-the-game stuff, but. I think Nacho is town for this post. Or at the absolute least, not scum with Tammy.
Honestly not sure about Tammy, though. Those posts could come from OOG-exhausted!town or scum who's sick of rolling scum. Eh.
Leaving my vote for now until I can reread stuff.
@Mato
Put a vote on your scummiest read and justify it. Or talk about the reads you're surest in.
Maybe I am just a stupid $%#$ after all and I've been trying to put together the words to tell you why this bothers me as much as it does but i don't think i'll be able to adequately do that. Maybe it's because you express knowledge of the time I had today but don't take anything else into account. You make it sound like I had tons of time and did nothing but ignore this game, but you know very well that i was focused elsewhere for the couple hours I had this morning. Didn't get a lot of stuff done that i wanted to get done today as I was barely functioning, coming here was one of them. I did skim this game Wednesday night and saw your post and planned to respond to it today, but i in part didn't because i was focused elsewhere. This game might not be overly dense but there is a little of it, and maybe just maybe in the crappy ass mood I've been in since yesterday, coming here to defend the stupid accusation of a slip when I just didn't know the flavor of the game was not the first of my desires. Still planned to come in here today, just ran out of steam. Why wouldn't I ignore a game? you've seen me ignore plenty of games for several days at a time. Maybe I just need to stop playing games with friends. You say you know how much time i had today, so in knowing that you also know how *****ty the past couple of days have been for me and how upset i've been, and what you really felt you needed to do TODAY, in a game where deadline is two weeks away so nothing is pressing is either reaction test me to see if I get properly pissed off by a push or demand for my head on a platter because i didn't hop to it to respond. you seriously couldn't have waited a day to see my response? Maybe that's a silly expectation, i don't know, but i don't have the energy or desire to fight so just lynch me and get it over with.
unvote
I simply commented about Mato's fencesitting behavior. I made no indication of whether that was alignment indicative or not. Which, by the way, I don't feel it is in and of itself. Mato fencesits like a champ as either alignment in my experience with him. Now, if he's scum, we will know sooner rather than later, and he will probably name most of his scum buddies when he does it. (see Goldeneye for reference) So you conveniently leave out Fable and myself from your list. Don't you think that Fable is an easy mislynch, being new-to-us? Don't you feel I could be an early mislynch because of foot-in-Huntz syndrome? Why is it you chose to leave off noth of us?
Not to mention, the only times you have pushed for me are when you were scum (or I was the SK that one time). Does that mean you are claiming scum my good sir?
In my limited experience with the two he has been correct about her very early on. This was the reason I made mention of him not choosing a side on her yet in my earlier post.
unvote
vote:Nachomamma9
"Scum can't make a good case on town if town is good"
is not the same as
"The case was bad, therefore the writer is scum"
Please try to stay on topic here instead of delving into unrelated rhetoric.
Excuse me, but where is your case that Huntzilla is town?
And now you'll just vote Nacho? But not Huntzilla for the same reasons? Beautiful.
Absolutely beautiful.
Vote Fable and Huntzilla!
Now to find their third...
Then when faced with 3 other wagons (Tammy, Nacho, Huntzilla), Huntzilla was the only one who Fable strongly said would not get a vote.
Fable is scum. Hunt is a buddy. Tammy and Nacho are cleared town.
That is all.
Fable is an unknown. I've only seen him in [redacted].
But yes, scumreading you clearly means I am scum.
Lynch me
Huntzilla is still probably town.
Unvote
Vote tomsloger
Hey tom, what's your read on Fable? The whole enchilada.
He's kind of all over the place in a way that scum wouldn't be able to keep straight.
I don't think he's dialed into the game flow, nor making any attempt to.
I see no signs of fable trying to hide or have any consensus reads.
It looks to me like town playing with a bunch of strangers and adjusting on the fly whenever new information is presented.
Are you excited? I'm excited.
I did some ISO diving.
Fable:
- cleared Tammy, but left some wiggle room in the read to vote/bus if necessary
- townreads tom for "tone" alone
- seems mad that I'm focusing on Tammy. Annoyed at me for pursuing a buddy?
- claims that supporting a wagon that you don't start yourself is opportunistic (incorrect)
- bad/overexplainy response to ZDS: "I wasn't going after Seppel/Vaimes for attacking Tammy, I just didn't like the fact that they were attacking Tammy!" Pretty much just rephrased what ZDS said but tried to make it sound reasonable
- This post:: pretty much telling Tammy to post or get bussed. Goes out of his way to explain that a Tammy wagon isn't his first choice but justifies it with "she's lurking" and "her flip will clarify things from early game"
- already talked about the TMI thing with Hunt
tom:
- Before looking back at his posts, tom seems so much more UTR this game. Normally he's the center of attention, but here his presence is sorely lacking
- His posts are more fluff than gamesolving
- asks everyone for thoughts on Tammy; completely forgets about it
- Never explains the Seppel vote
They have multiple throwaway interactions that never go anywhere. Some lines of questioning are completely dropped or ignored.
I ship it.
For posterity.
Should reread TS at some point when my judgement isn't clouded with ~feelings~, but eh, I was probably just flat-out wrong on that one.
I wish you had held back on that post. I literally just asked Hunt and Fable to look at Tom's iso because I wanted to see if Fable noticed those things independently. I through in Hunt so it wouldn't be so obvious.
Which is also why the seppel vote. I can't find it right now, but there was a post where he connected the two of them, moving from mato to tammy (or possibly vice versa) but still left the other as a possibility.
And I don't think I've been UTR, but I am in a ***** ton of games right now and in the middle of a mozart festival so, you know. Suck eggs.
<3
I mentioned that this bothered me before and it still does. Can anyone else decipher this from a town mindset? It's way to early for him to give some reads, even though he has reads?
Weird post.
Then in consecutive posts jokes about asking for a Fable scum claim and then asks me if I'm scum.
The some fluff sort of flying UTR posts.
Why is Tom so different this game. It reminds me of Stargate when he said he was "trying some different things" one of those different things was being scum.
The ISO has tons of fluff. Really careful stuff.
I'd like Tom as the lynch today, if I can't have that then Vaimes looks pretty tasty.
and which of those is alignment indicative (for me)?