That pile I talked about with tammy and matowar:
They are both absolutely necessary mislynches this game if town, and prime bus candidates if scum.
Huntz' posts about the two of them have been awful
NOPE! x1000
I'm okay lynching people if there is any chance of being scum and accept that more often then not I'm going to be wrong but mislynches of never necessary and you never mislynch on purpose.
Excuse me, but where is your case that Huntzilla is town?
And now you'll just vote Nacho? But not Huntzilla for the same reasons? Beautiful.
Absolutely beautiful.
Vote Fable and Huntzilla!
Now to find their third... [/quote]
Your reading comprehension can't possibly be this bad. My reaction to tom's post had everything to do with his talk of tammy and matowar concerning necessary mislynches. It's a concept I absolutely disagree with and I think it's a waste of time to talk about it when tom could be doing something useful like scum hunting. As far as lynching huntzilla goes I'm really null on him at the moment so no I won't be voting for him any time soon.
Uh nacho, I don't know if you noticed but you just contradicted yourself. You just said you expected emotional investment from tammy in this game when previously you said you wouldn't be surprised if she lurked this game. What gives?
Previously, you asked me if she lurked as scum. I said that it was less lurking and more that she doesn't have the same engagement as town. I said I wouldn't be surprised if she lurked as scum in this particular game.
The expectation for her to be emotionally invested in this game was specifically if she was town.
Okay the way you worded it before made it seem like you wouldn't be surprised if tammy lurked regardless of alignment. Then if that is the case at the moment you made that post would mean your were certain tammy was scum at that time, what is your read on tammy at present?
I'm going to take some time off MTGS Mafia. And see what else is out there. I'm not enjoying the long time controls and the lazy environment game after game. Too much lurking and players that refuse to spend anytime reviewing the game.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@fable
agree or not on my theory that any mafia member should be trying to lynch tammy and/or mato regardless of their alignments, i believe it to be true.
so looking for everyone to interact with them and try to see what brought them there is scumhunting.
Now look at ZDS. he talked a bit about the two. But the way he went about it just makes me think he wants to figure them out. He's also my top town read for other reasons, but that has no part in this post.
I don't love vaimes' position on tammy, but he had a line i really see coming from townvaimes about mato needing to participate more so we can read him (super relevant from off the grid mafia, where mato lurked incessantly until i mislynched him in lylo)
Mindreaver's scumread of mato is nullish in this particular scenario. in part because i dont think scummind would realize the need for those lynches without some coaching, but mostly because he seems to have arrived at it organically.
And my only misgiving on Matowar is how he wanted to go on the speedlynch while expressing confusion. I'm not certain it's the scumMatowar I saw in Goldeneye, though.
doubtcasting matowar after his flavor confusion.
whether you agree with the derpclear or not, that was the vibe in the the thread at the time. and a townmato derpclear is REALLY bad for scum.
also inb4 we're all pigs and therefore confusion clearing on setup is dumb in the first place because nonalignment indicative. I can't imagine iso creating a setup so stupid that it can be broken so easily like that.
I am quite clearly not a pig, my name is The Baconator. But do please continue your "we're all pigs" diatribe. It really brings out the scum in you.
Tom, is this the end of our beautiful yet fleeting relationship? First you shoot me, now you want to hang me :'( Come on bby I promise to actually play this game I have a job and a place to live and shifts and stuff
I don't like Axel's mwahaha comment, joke sounds forced -.- What's with all these mysterious new people too? And by new I just mean I've never met you guys
Okay this is definitely GoldeneyeScumMatowar.
Quote from Tammy » »
But at least if you all recognize we all have pig names then you can get over this silly notion that people are somehow cleared if they bothered to read the win conditions and got confused. Gonna go out on a limb here and say any alignment would be. Also if someone points out that something is odd or wrong, anyone with half a brain could try to figure out what they mean if they were trying to get cleared by it. And scum themselves could have been genuinely confused and used that to give themselves an early easy peasy town read. You guys did this in the last game by clearing people for silly things and without caution and mafia stomped us. Don't do it again.
Wow I didn't expect you to actually continue down this path. Unvote, vote Tammy
I still have some misgivings about Tammy but I'm going to have to punch Matowar for that fencesit the size of Iso's in the Star Trek mini.
Unvote, vote Matowar
this is the one. this is what led to the vote on seppel that i said id explain later.
seppel is connecting them together here in his mind. the only connection i see, besides being seppel's scumreads, is the necessity of their lynches for the scum team.
and just look at the context of this switch.
tammy was under some pressure, and there was seppel. right in the thick of it.
and then mato puts his foot in his mouth, and there is seppel ready to pounce.
oh, but better leave that tammy thing open. could totally still happen.
seppel is scum. his reads are not only crafted to win the game for mafia, but they change with the game flow to be on whichever of the two of them looks more likely to get lynched at the moment.
soon i will talk about huntzilla and nacho. those two are a bit harder to figure out through this lense.
Don't know if I agree with the concept of what you were doing completely but I'll admit it does have it's merits and the reasoning for thinking seppel is scum is solid. Still thinking it's a seppel/vaimes scum team since they both seem done with tammy and presented cases against me instead. Not gonna tell me they're not glued to each other.
I think Tom's reasoning (correct me if I'm misunderstanding here) that scum would have/should have identified X particular players as their best chances for mis-lynches this game and therefore people who are attacking them (aka: Seppel) are scum, is pretty bad. Bordering on silly. And it would only be even remotely plausible if the scum have some kind of day-talk/pre-game chatting where they got to talk about strategy beforehand, which I don't think happened?
It doesn't make me think Tom is scum though. I kind of like his tone, but the logic is pretty bad, and I have zero interest in a Seppel lynch right now. The fact Fable seems to be agreeing with you is another strike against him.
The Tammy/Nacho thing gives me the willies and was uncomfortable to read. I'm kind of barning whoever said they are definitely not scum-buddies together, but one of them could easily be scum, and I'm kind of more on the Nacho-scum side of that equation. But Tammy needs to not take stuff so personally also.
Still don't see why anyone is town-reading Hunt, and I might make an actual real case there next.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I did think Tom was being ridiculous before but the fact that I just finished a game game on another site where the scum team did exactly what Tom said (push what would be perceived as easy mislynches) has me rethinking the situation. I don't think it's something the scum team does 10 out of 10 games but I've realized it's certainly possible.
I think Tom's reasoning (correct me if I'm misunderstanding here) that scum would have/should have identified X particular players as their best chances for mis-lynches this game and therefore people who are attacking them (aka: Seppel) are scum, is pretty bad. Bordering on silly. And it would only be even remotely plausible if the scum have some kind of day-talk/pre-game chatting where they got to talk about strategy beforehand, which I don't think happened?
its not that they would have talked about it and actively decided "we have to jump on matowar and whoever enters the thread strangely"
its just the way you have to think about the game as scum. you have to identify who you want to lynch and build from there.
im saying theres no way scum seppel thinks anything but "mmm. tammy and mato. they could get lynched."
theres certainly a chance for a false positive here. townseppel could just think those two are the scummiest.
thats, like, a thing that could happen.
but i just dont think thats whats up. especially with the first quote, where he lashes out against the mato "clear"
Falling back on self-defense when under pressure rather than continuing to scumhunt is suspect, I'm leaning town on Seppel, and no, but it certainly isn't a towntell. I already talked about TS; did you not read my post?
o~o~o~o~o
Tammy likes TS for "trying to figure her out." TS was hesitant in voting Tammy when she started trolling/fluffing under pressure.
I smell something fishy porky.
@Nacho
Hi. You're kind of quiet, and you know Tammy. Divine her alignment for me, pretty please.
Am I not supposed to defend myself when I've been attacked? Did I not give a couple reads and scum hunt? It was three pages into the game, what were you expecting really?
It could be fatigue, but this seems pretty underwhelming for an entrance as a whole; I know that you were pretty traumatized by the Infinity Scum March(tm) and maybe the town glow would have worn off by now but I was hoping to see at least a "yay! it's over!" or something else that is mind*******ly awesome.
Had another post planned, got sidetracked by the flavor question and confusion.
Where? You don't look like you're playing mafia to me. Looks like semantic hoo ha to me.
I don't think you'r that dense. I don't think a town you accusing someone for having a sketchy lack of reaction when they're not in the thread. I don't think a town you doesn't recognize i'm talking about everyone having a pig pun name therefore the beginning of the game clearance is stupid and goes i'm not a pig. I notice that you passed on discussing the "confusion" every one had. I don't think a town you thinks that someone who doesn't know what's going on is actually scummy.
I think you're an opportunistic pig!
While I think your push looks reasonable enough, I'm concerned that it's mostly centered around the win condition thing. I also think that Seppel can be fairly silly in general and so saying that he would know better to do something so ridiculous doesn't seem perfectly genuine to me.
I've been playing mafia for about 5 years on several sites. I have several games on this site you should be able to find easily. You could also talk to nacho who's played with me the most out of anyone.
You could also realize you're being silly for attacking me for not knowing the mafia win condition, but hey!
But at least if you all recognize we all have pig names then you can get over this silly notion that people are somehow cleared if they bothered to read the win conditions and got confused. Gonna go out on a limb here and say any alignment would be. Also if someone points out that something is odd or wrong, anyone with half a brain could try to figure out what they mean if they were trying to get cleared by it. And scum themselves could have been genuinely confused and used that to give themselves an early easy peasy town read. You guys did this in the last game by clearing people for silly things and without caution and mafia stomped us. Don't do it again.
Tammy: What's your opinion on how strongly Fable has been attacking back whoever is attacking you?
I didn't see it as that was what she was doing. I think she saw someone continued to get attacked for meh reasons and was probing. It was nice to have someone not attacking me.
Vaimes - What was the purpose of the hounding you did of TS when he didn't vote me? Do you always get after people who don't vote right away and what in particular did you suspect was going on? You were voting me, so piñata or not presumably you consider me scum. What T/S my scum partner who wanted to be seen suspecting me but not voting me, or is he scum who want stop help champion the wagon against town but not be on the wagon?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
actually no I'll deal with it now, gimme a hot second I don't wanna **** up the post formatting
Re 340: where is the scumhunting? All I see is OMGUS of Seppel and Nacho. what do you think about the OTHER players in this game? there's like, twelve of us. right now it's more than three pages and if you're town I'm expecting SOMETHING to show it
you trolled by fluffing and making random "I'm town!" posts in the face of pressure, it smelled like trolling. what do you think of seppel /now?/
Re the TS whatever: I'm coming around to Voxx's idea that words are easy to fake and votes are harder to do so, so everyone should always have their vote on who they think is scummiest at the time (unless you're voting for pressure or reactions or sometihg) for later analysys. I didn't care specifically WHO TS voted for, as long as he voted. The wording of your last question confuses me, idk if it's because alcohol or you phrased it weirdly, but I'll either come back to it later or you could try again with different words
Gossip was odd sure but Tammy wasn't town because of mechanics or anything like that; she was town because she played super duper town. She's only been mislynched once (in LyLo) after several years of pretty consistent mafia playing. I'm not really sure why you seem so unconcerned about the difference between her play here and there.
Page 5 of a game with a 3-week deadline v. an entire day in a game with a 32-hour deadline. Never thought you'd be one of those Tammy is supposed to be super freaking town by page 5 when you know better.
Tammy: Are you good at getting Nacho lynched? Or, generally speaking, at getting other players (scum especially) lynched after they make a poor attack on you?
I've been able to get nacho lynched when I've put my heart behind it, and yeah i can sometimes get scum lynched after they make a bad attack on me. Nacho's town here though.
Okay the way you worded it before made it seem like you wouldn't be surprised if tammy lurked regardless of alignment. Then if that is the case at the moment you made that post would mean your were certain tammy was scum at that time, what is your read on tammy at present?
My activity's not really alignment indicative usually.
actually no I'll deal with it now, gimme a hot second I don't wanna **** up the post formatting
Re 340: where is the scumhunting? All I see is OMGUS of Seppel and Nacho. what do you think about the OTHER players in this game? there's like, twelve of us. right now it's more than three pages and if you're town I'm expecting SOMETHING to show it
you trolled by fluffing and making random "I'm town!" posts in the face of pressure, it smelled like trolling. what do you think of seppel /now?/
Re the TS whatever: I'm coming around to Voxx's idea that words are easy to fake and votes are harder to do so, so everyone should always have their vote on who they think is scummiest at the time (unless you're voting for pressure or reactions or sometihg) for later analysys. I didn't care specifically WHO TS voted for, as long as he voted. The wording of your last question confuses me, idk if it's because alcohol or you phrased it weirdly, but I'll either come back to it later or you could try again with different words
I said i liked zedork, ts, tom, and fable for a couple reasons and had seppel as a scum read. I don't think it's fair of you to ignore that and claim that I hadn't done anything but be defensive. Sure it's not page 3 now, but i was responding to your claims on page three.
Not sure what I think about seppel right now.
I think the vote thing is stupid, btw, but that's a mafia theory thing and considering I'm a vote holder actually my words are more important, so I think your attack on TS for not voting when he wasn't sure is silly.
~~~
I'm sorry that I made people uncomfortable with my reaction. I was having a really crappy couple days this week. Even though it wasn't a personal attack in the slightest, it feels harsher and more personal when a friend piles on the attack especially when you're already just having a bad time. I shouldn't have reacted that way. Sorry.
For the first time using Sotek's vote machine thing on the recommendation of mallorean_thug, so hopefully that will be of some help when it comes to votal analysis.
Let me know if you want me to address anything, and I'll do my best to redeem this slot.
Vaimes - what I was wondering was what type of conclusions were you coming to concerning TS not voting. You might say that you didn't care where he was voting as long as he voted, but it certainly looked like you were suspicious of the fact that he wasn't voting me after making a paragraph about me. Did you think he wasn't voting me for a particular reason?
I'm town, and I thought that TS was pretty obvtown before I replaced in, so yeah.
Townreads:
ZDS is pretty town for his initial comments regarding the flavor. This is obviously dangerous territory to be playing around in, but I liked how he entered the flavor stuff with an agenda and he got what he wanted out of it (townreads). This townread, upon closer examination, isn't exactly as strong as I thought it was at first glance since ZDS is the guy to make very calm, reasonable posts as scum, and playing with fire can get you burned. I still like ZDS's first post though, and I think it came from a townie mindset - I don't see scum constricting themselves early game based on flavor.
Vaimes - I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the best at reading Vaimes compared to the rest of the DLP folk, and I know that Voxx said that if Vaimes is going to have a good scum game, he's probably going to have it on MTGS, since not many people know his meta well. That said, I think this is his town game. He's putting in the work to solve the game and narrow down the game state, and he's actively goading others to scumhunt as well (Matowar). I also liked his reply to Matowar scumreading him, while I think that scum!Vaimes would probably hide under a rock or something. I like his 198 as well, as I don't think scum !Vaimes would be able to brush a vote off like that while at the same time calling it opportunistic.
Axelrod - Ultimate lack of self awareness. I have to admit that I was super duper shocked at Axel flipping scum in Musical Mafia since I was following that game a bit, but Axel is just really carefree in this game rather than calculating and pretending to scumhunt. His first five posts show a distinct lack of self awareness - Axel just cares about having fun, rather than worrying how other people perceive him. I like how he's poking sticks by going "Scum?".
Fable07 - Pretty decent town read. I want him to be more transparent so I can take a look into how he's coming to the conclusions he's coming to, as I have no idea how he got Seppel and Vaimes as scum, but he's said some pretty solid things.
Quote from Fable07 »
My read on tom is just based on tone. I have trouble trying to figure out what goes on inside his head.
This feels like a genuine attempt to get into tom's head here. I really like how he says "I have trouble trying to figure out what goes on inside his head", as it shows that he is actually trying to use the empathy method of scumhunting. His backpedal on Tammy is eeeeeh, but I like his sentiment regarding lurkers. Fable's fears of lurker scum are really genuine.
Seppel - I liked Seppel's first page and thought he was strongly town for continuing ZDS's flavor thing. Other than that, I've been pretty much nodding my head to Seppel's posts? His Fable and Hunt thing feels like Seppel believes that he caught scum, which I like. "Seppel feels like his play in GoldenEye" is kind of what I'm summing up his play to be.
tomsloger - Again I like the flavor confusion thing from the beginning. tom's Seppel case reminds me of his case on me in Twinborn Mafia, where he put out a decent-sounding case that was just wrong. I am inclined to think tom is also wrong in this game as well. I like where he's at with the "this game is stacked, Matowar is a mislynch scum need to get in order to win the game" as well. This townread isn't the strongest since I've never actually played with scum!tom before (just read two of scum!tom's games) so I don't have the best grasp on his meta, but I think he's townish.
Matowar - His "Do scum bus on Day 1" felt the vaguest of town to me. If I had a gun to my head, then I would say town at the moment because I've had a fair amount of experience playing with people like him recently, but it's not strong at all. His "I might be able to get some solid reads on people" also feels vaguely town to me.
Nacho - Hasn't really made an impression on me so far? Only thing is that he and Tammy voted each other and unvoted. I agree with Axel that I don't understand what he's trying to accomplish with the constantly changing names. This kind of worries me since from what I remember reading, town-leader like Nacho tends to be town Nacho, and he just hasn't done much this game.
Tammy - I am extremely paranoid of scum!Tammy because I was reading this game like a long time ago and just saw how good her scum game is. As for this game.. Once again, she hasn't made much of an impression on me so far? Most of her posts are caution with the flavor clearing thing, which I kind of agree with. I just kind of want to see more of her, now that she hopefully has her head back in the game. If she was a normal player I would sort of clear her for her emotional outbursts/trying to explain her actions from a townie mindset, but I know she has a good scum game, which is why I am reluctant to fully clear her.
Hunt - My litmus test for Hunt is: I read his first post. Do I like it? If so, he's probably scum. Is the post blatantly scummy? If so, he's probably town. I read his two big posts so far and got a "meh" feeling from them, which is why he's here. Maybe I'll reread them and judge my reaction again.
Mindreaver - I am surprised that he hasn't been pressured so far. I don't see any of his posts contributing towards solving the game. The posts at the beginning I sort of townread him for, but I really dislike how he placed an opportunistic vote for Matowar and I also dislike how he came so quickly to the conclusion that TappingStones and Vaimes were both town; it feels like inside information to me. It feels like he wanted to avoid discussing the fight, so he quickly just dismissed it as town on town (since he would know from his role PM). I also dislike the vote on Vaimes since he literally just said that they were both town prior, and it feels like scum trying to score a mislynch. His #231 is a "good post" but not necessarily a game-solving one. And I dislike the "eew" at Fable. It's honestly just feeling that he's just trying to keep his mislynch options open and I'm really not seeing any game solviness here. I could be wrong on this read, especially since I reread his opening posts again and they introduce a sliver of doubt in my mind, but I've played with town Mindreaver and I don't think this is town Mindreaver.
I wouldn't put much stock in the names, but they are funny.
Patrick Swineszey, BTW.
I will catch up tonight. Big thunderstorms tore the power and phones down.
In this post he has done like three separate scummy things. Aside from a somewhat late entrance to the thread (which he's pseudo explaining, except, not) this post feels very much like someone who is trying hard to fit in. He's commenting on the whole "everyone has a pig-pun name" thing well after the fact has already been established and discussed. Then he's very deliberately not commenting on anything else in the thread, claiming power-outage as the reason (which begs the question how he's posting at all, but, okay), and says he'll catch up tonight. He does not catch up tonight.
Then there was This mess of a post to follow up. I'll lead by saying that I find the big "wall 'o quotes catch up post" to be a favorite of scums from time immemorial. Can be done well, and be of substance, but this one isn't and he even disclaims it right up front with the whole "these will be my reactions in real time" nonsense, which is practically an excuse for why it's a bad post before he even makes it.
There's an easy agreement with ZDS, which isn't saying anything. There's some throwing of shade on Tammy, which isn't followed up on in any way I can see. I don't even know why he chose Fable's post as one to respond to as literally all Fable said was that Hunt needed to get in here. This appears to be Hunt being overly obsessed with anyone saying anything about him. I think scum are more obsessed with what other people are saying about them.
Then there are his quotes of me. First, I quote Hunt's first post (above) and said, "Scum?" Now, anyone in their right minds ought to be able to understand that post, but Hunt'a "real time" reaction is to ask "Are you claiming?"
What?
What is this question? Seriously, think about it for even a minute. What could Hunt possibly be thinking here that makes this question make any kind of sense? That I am claiming "Cop" on D1, and that I also have a guilty result on Hunt? Is that what he was asking me? Imagine you are Townie Hunt. Imagine you actually read that post of mine as me claiming that I had a guilty result on him. Is this what you do in that situation? I think not. Could he maybe have been uncertain about if I was actually "claiming" or not, as the post implies (and, aside, seriously, what kind of bone-headed false claim would this be from a scum-me anyway?) If you were trying to give him the benefit of the doubt you might think so, but the very next post ought to show you this can't be the case.
Because in the next post, where I quote TS's post and say the exact same thing: "Scum?" Hunt's response is:
yes, you are claiming
Unvote
Vote Axel
So, apparently he thinks I have claimed Cop with TWO guilty results? On D1. And he doesn't believe me (shock), hence the vote. Which has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read in a game of Mafia. Like, people, please try to wrap your heads around this. How could he actually be thinking this as a Townie? Why wasn't the (false) claim on him enough to earn his vote. Why did it take me doing the same thing to someone else (which should have nullified the idea my original post was a "claim" to begin with.) On the other hand, paranoid scum, who is afraid I have somehow tagged him might lash out like this, not knowing what else to do? Especially after he saw TS attacking me for it first.
He then throws shade on Matowar, accusing him of fence-sitting and calling it "Not Pretty". A position he will almost immediately back-track on, trying to say that he never said it was anything alignment indicative, and he knows Matowar always fence sits. Really? Then what the hell was the point of commenting on it the way you commented on it in the first place? Hunt was totally throwing shade, and his attempt to say otherwise just reeks.
There was also that part where Tom asked him to elaborate on his scum read of me, and Hunt totally side-stepped, asking for Tom's opinion first. Which, I'm not sure Tom gave and I'm definitely sure Hunt never followed up on in any way. Which is also scummy.
Lord, this is a veritable potpourri of scumminess. How are people Town-reading this?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm reading seppel as scum because his attacks have been awful so far. His case on tammy was on a nitpick and his case on me was based on something I never said. Maybe seppel is just someone that doesn't try very hard as town and I'm misreading him but his lazy arguments feel scummy to me.
Mindreaver - I am surprised that he hasn't been pressured so far. I don't see any of his posts contributing towards solving the game. The posts at the beginning I sort of townread him for, but I really dislike how he placed an opportunistic vote for Matowar and I also dislike how he came so quickly to the conclusion that TappingStones and Vaimes were both town; it feels like inside information to me. It feels like he wanted to avoid discussing the fight, so he quickly just dismissed it as town on town (since he would know from his role PM). I also dislike the vote on Vaimes since he literally just said that they were both town prior, and it feels like scum trying to score a mislynch. His #231 is a "good post" but not necessarily a game-solving one. And I dislike the "eew" at Fable. It's honestly just feeling that he's just trying to keep his mislynch options open and I'm really not seeing any game solviness here. I could be wrong on this read, especially since I reread his opening posts again and they introduce a sliver of doubt in my mind, but I've played with town Mindreaver and I don't think this is town Mindreaver.
Well, first Matowar. I have on occasion, withheld reads so as not to color somebody else's response. I can understand doing that. But I've never done it this early, and I can't see a town mindset for one of the first posts of the game being "I have opinions, but I'm going to wait to see which way the wind is blowing first". That had scummy written all over it, and deserved a vote.
Matowar responded by asking my opinion on TS/Vaimes. So I chimed in. I don't see how that was "quickly coming to a conclusion". I even referenced the game where I thought this was similar. I haven't re-read my post, but I suspect if I do, I wouldn't have cleared either one as town. Simply said that I didn't see anything that would make me lean scum on either one. That the "fight" wasn't indicative for either one. Even though Vaimes himself didn't agree, I think if you read the first 4 or 5 pages of off the grid, you'd see the parallels. As for TS, you probably have a lot more experience than I do with him. How would you read that exchange? Maybe that's an unfair question, considering your position. Also, I'll point out that I changed my mind of vaimes soon after that, in a post you apparently liked... So it's bizarre to say I had inside information on town!vaimes, and then made a townpost about scum!vaimes.
Fable I'm not sure about. That post *was* gross. I also continued to post on the subject. So it's not like I just said eww and left it. I can understand having a list of scumreads, I don't necessarily like the mindset of "I'm fine with any of these four and will just pull the trigger on any of them". Especially this early. Especially when he votes Nacho 5 posts later. That's just trying to find an easy target.
So my scumlean list is Fable or Mato, at the moment. The Tammy/Nacho thing seemed organic. If they are both scum, and that was a gambit, it was masterful. I'm reading into Axel/Tom a bit, especially about Tom's "mislynch" theory. I was thinking it wasn't a terrible way to approach the game, because the odds of scum being the easiest targets is so low, you might as well assume any push on those would be a mislynch. But leaving people out of that list, like Fable, like Hunt, seems to be a pretty big hole in the theory. Axel also has a point, that you can't just trust the odds and decide the good players aren't mislynches just because they are more experienced, or unpleasant, or more difficult to lynch. Anyone can be scum. So I don't know which mindset is coming from town, or if both are. Again, I don't think this is a scum/scum gambit.
Tom-So I didn't realize it but Tom's "protect the mislynches" strategy actually begins on page 2. He came into this game with a plan and I respect that. I'm beginning to realize that Tom is the type to withhold information often because he thinks he can get more information from other players that way. Strong town read.
ZDS-I dislike the tammy nitpick but I didn't realize he had no experience playing with tammy before so it does make more sense to me now. ZDS has developed a pattern of popping in once a day or so to give his take on current events and ask questions which seems very town to me. Strong town read.
Tammy-Anger over being picked on over something stupid seemed legit. I liked the way she called out seppel for his weak attack. I consider the emotional outburst stuff fluff so I'm ignoring that. Null leaning town.
Prophylaxis-Was reading TS as town right before he subbed out, resetting the read but I like what I'm seeing of prophy so far. Town read.
Mindreaver-Why the **** was I town reading MR before? Was I on drugs? He's been extremely wishy-washy and 99% lack content that progresses the game. He did talk to vaimes a bit but he's played with vaimes before so many he feels like that's a safe topic to talk about for him. Null leaning Scum.
Vaimes-The tunnel on tammy was awful and the way he got obsessed with TS not voting was weird. TS/Vaimes spat is garbage I'm ignoring. I disagree with 99% of what vaimes is doing but I think he is trying to solve the game or at least trying to appear to. Null
Mato-The different smiley after every sentence really throws me off, like tone wise he comes off as schizophrenic. He has said nothing of substance from what I can see, not liking what I'm seeing here. Null
Axel-Beginning of the game seemed like Axel was trying to skate by and I found the "scum?" posts annoying. I have noticed him turn up the dial a bit and get more serious recently I'm interesting to see where his game goes from here.
Nacho-Jumped on the tammy wagon super fast but jumped off just as fast when tammy got pissed at him for it. Nacho should not be this wishy-washy regarding tammy so I find that weird. Other than that he's been kinda distant. Null.
Huntzilla-Seems extremely self-conscious and his big catch-up post doesn't really address anything of importance. Null leaning Scum.
Seppel-Seemed really obsessed with the names early on and felt the need to remind everyone how "anti-pig" his name is a couple times. Was quick to call OMGUS on tammy after she called out his weak attack which I didn't like. Wanted to town read nacho which I don't like either considering seppel's stance on tammy. Seems like him wanting to take sides without having proper reasoning. Attack on me was weak considering it was based on something I never said. Strong scum read.
Well, first Matowar. I have on occasion, withheld reads so as not to color somebody else's response. I can understand doing that. But I've never done it this early, and I can't see a town mindset for one of the first posts of the game being "I have opinions, but I'm going to wait to see which way the wind is blowing first". That had scummy written all over it, and deserved a vote.
Do you think that it was a wise vote given Matowar's experience level?
When I approach people like Matowar or any other newbie player, I always try to give them the benefit of the doubt as I know that they will be pretty much universally suspected. Your hop-on vote accompanying Seppel felt like you trying to pick the low hanging fruit, here.
As for your second paragraph, am I interpreting this wrong?
I found that exchange to well within your town wheelhouse. Same with Vaimes.
I was reading this and thought you were telling TappingStones and Vaimes "stop slapfighting, you're both town" which felt like an admission of inside information to me. How did you go from townreading Vaimes in this post, to scumreading him in your next?
@Fable - Point to me where tom's "protect the mislynches" plan starts on page 2? Did a quick skim of his posts there and I couldn't find it.
What do you make of Mindreaver's current content, specifically the post he made in response to me? I have a response written down but I want more people to weigh in on Mindreaver.
I am still having trouble seeing your scumread on Seppel. I just keep looking at Seppel's posts and see a townie who is wrong but truly believes that you are scum. Like, Seppel's #297 is slightly played up, but he is working on solving the game. Ditto with #233.
I don't exactly have much experience with scum!Seppel, but if I had to describe a Seppel that is working on solving the game, this Seppel would be it.
I would say Tom's plan started on post #90 when he asks everyone to weigh in on tammy "for reasons".
As for my opinion on mindreavers's latest post I don't like it. It's bigger and has more detail than his other posts sure but it's still just him explaining himself. The last part about Tom's theory just seems like MR wanting to to keep every possible lynch (or mislynch) on the table to me.
I found that exchange to well within your town wheelhouse. Same with Vaimes.
I was reading this and thought you were telling TappingStones and Vaimes "stop slapfighting, you're both town" which felt like an admission of inside information to me. How did you go from townreading Vaimes in this post, to scumreading him in your next?
So yeah, you're reading that incorrectly. I'm not saying they are town. I'm saying their behavior, at the time, fits into their own particular town behavior subsets. If you read the whole post there, I said as much.
And TS is TS, and I don't see anything telling there either.
TS is TS, is that like Seppel is Seppel?
It means that you both do certain actions that, coming from somebody else, might be alignment indicative. But when you take the source into account, it's known to be likely to come from town as well as scum.
For instance, if Tammy claimed she was misrepped at least 5 times in as many pages, I might consider that a scumtell. I don't hold you to the same standard, or else I'd have to push for your lynch in every game
I found that exchange to well within your town wheelhouse. Same with Vaimes.
As for Matowar, he's not as new as me lol. I definitely don't feel experienced yet. Certainly not enough that I'm giving "new player" passes out.
@Fable - is that scumread #6 for you? At this point, unless I'm missing something, you're comfortable lynching literally half the game today? And I'm the scummy one?
I was literally wondering if anyone was going to talk to me.
What even is the point of this sentence? Can't you start interactions yourself? Were you trying to attract attention?
Actually, I've been trying to start interactions myself. Vaimes is probably the only one who's actually interacted with me. I was surprised my defense of Tammy early on didn't get any reaction. Since people were scum reading her hardcore. I was surprised she didn't have more to say to me in that regard, as well. I voted matowar, who's only response was to ask me about Vaimes/TS. I asked Axelrod what his issue was with me, hoping for more than "I don't remember.
So it isn't like I haven't tried to get into the game. I just figured somebody would eventually be curious about me. I was already leaning town on that slot, but I'm reading proph as town for at least realizing that I haven't had interaction yet. That was a legit observation.
And now you'll just vote Nacho? But not Huntzilla for the same reasons? Beautiful.
Absolutely beautiful.
Vote Fable and Huntzilla!
Now to find their third... [/quote]
Your reading comprehension can't possibly be this bad. My reaction to tom's post had everything to do with his talk of tammy and matowar concerning necessary mislynches. It's a concept I absolutely disagree with and I think it's a waste of time to talk about it when tom could be doing something useful like scum hunting. As far as lynching huntzilla goes I'm really null on him at the moment so no I won't be voting for him any time soon.
Previously, you asked me if she lurked as scum. I said that it was less lurking and more that she doesn't have the same engagement as town. I said I wouldn't be surprised if she lurked as scum in this particular game.
The expectation for her to be emotionally invested in this game was specifically if she was town.
Because it totally worked.
I'm going to take some time off MTGS Mafia. And see what else is out there. I'm not enjoying the long time controls and the lazy environment game after game. Too much lurking and players that refuse to spend anytime reviewing the game.
Prophylaxis replaces TappingStones. Welcome!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I will catchup in a bit, after this outdoor movie theater.
@fable
agree or not on my theory that any mafia member should be trying to lynch tammy and/or mato regardless of their alignments, i believe it to be true.
so looking for everyone to interact with them and try to see what brought them there is scumhunting.
Now look at ZDS. he talked a bit about the two. But the way he went about it just makes me think he wants to figure them out. He's also my top town read for other reasons, but that has no part in this post.
I don't love vaimes' position on tammy, but he had a line i really see coming from townvaimes about mato needing to participate more so we can read him (super relevant from off the grid mafia, where mato lurked incessantly until i mislynched him in lylo)
Mindreaver's scumread of mato is nullish in this particular scenario. in part because i dont think scummind would realize the need for those lynches without some coaching, but mostly because he seems to have arrived at it organically.
now lets look at seppel: doubtcasting matowar after his flavor confusion.
whether you agree with the derpclear or not, that was the vibe in the the thread at the time. and a townmato derpclear is REALLY bad for scum. man, seppel sure does want those lynches. this is the one. this is what led to the vote on seppel that i said id explain later.
seppel is connecting them together here in his mind. the only connection i see, besides being seppel's scumreads, is the necessity of their lynches for the scum team.
and just look at the context of this switch.
tammy was under some pressure, and there was seppel. right in the thick of it.
and then mato puts his foot in his mouth, and there is seppel ready to pounce.
oh, but better leave that tammy thing open. could totally still happen.
seppel is scum. his reads are not only crafted to win the game for mafia, but they change with the game flow to be on whichever of the two of them looks more likely to get lynched at the moment.
soon i will talk about huntzilla and nacho. those two are a bit harder to figure out through this lense.
Oh, you. Flattery will get you someplaces.
Looking forward to your catchup.
id rather just get seppel lynched on force of personality and keep it to myself, but it was unlikely to work out that way.
thoughts on my conclusion?
Do me a favor: look at their posts/interactions for yourself and tell me what you think.
It looks like he wants to vote her but backed off for OOG reasons.
Like. He literally says at the end of the post that the interaction made him uncomfortable.
Don't know if I agree with the concept of what you were doing completely but I'll admit it does have it's merits and the reasoning for thinking seppel is scum is solid. Still thinking it's a seppel/vaimes scum team since they both seem done with tammy and presented cases against me instead. Not gonna tell me they're not glued to each other.
unvote
vote:seppel
It doesn't make me think Tom is scum though. I kind of like his tone, but the logic is pretty bad, and I have zero interest in a Seppel lynch right now. The fact Fable seems to be agreeing with you is another strike against him.
The Tammy/Nacho thing gives me the willies and was uncomfortable to read. I'm kind of barning whoever said they are definitely not scum-buddies together, but one of them could easily be scum, and I'm kind of more on the Nacho-scum side of that equation. But Tammy needs to not take stuff so personally also.
Still don't see why anyone is town-reading Hunt, and I might make an actual real case there next.
its just the way you have to think about the game as scum. you have to identify who you want to lynch and build from there.
im saying theres no way scum seppel thinks anything but "mmm. tammy and mato. they could get lynched."
theres certainly a chance for a false positive here. townseppel could just think those two are the scummiest.
thats, like, a thing that could happen.
but i just dont think thats whats up. especially with the first quote, where he lashes out against the mato "clear"
Am I not supposed to defend myself when I've been attacked? Did I not give a couple reads and scum hunt? It was three pages into the game, what were you expecting really?
Where did I troll? If I placed a vote on someone then I didn't focus solely on defense. What was weak about my vote on Seppel?
Had another post planned, got sidetracked by the flavor question and confusion.
Not what I meant or implied I don't think.
How so? Also your catch up is meh.
I didn't see it as that was what she was doing. I think she saw someone continued to get attacked for meh reasons and was probing. It was nice to have someone not attacking me.
Vaimes - What was the purpose of the hounding you did of TS when he didn't vote me? Do you always get after people who don't vote right away and what in particular did you suspect was going on? You were voting me, so piñata or not presumably you consider me scum. What T/S my scum partner who wanted to be seen suspecting me but not voting me, or is he scum who want stop help champion the wagon against town but not be on the wagon?
I don't really get your push there.
Vaimes (1): Mindreaver
Axelrod (1): Huntzilla
Nachomamma8 (1): ZeDorkSlipeur
Huntzilla (2): Axelrod, tomsloger
Fable07 (1): Seppel
tomsloger (2): Vaimes, Prophylaxis
Seppel (1): Fable07
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
unvote, vote seppel
huntz, keep feeling pressured or whatever.
Unvote
Vote Matowar
I'm pretty sure there are questions directed at you, you could do more than make an "I exist!" post.
So far he's following the path of condemnation.
Re 340: where is the scumhunting? All I see is OMGUS of Seppel and Nacho. what do you think about the OTHER players in this game? there's like, twelve of us. right now it's more than three pages and if you're town I'm expecting SOMETHING to show it
you trolled by fluffing and making random "I'm town!" posts in the face of pressure, it smelled like trolling. what do you think of seppel /now?/
Re the TS whatever: I'm coming around to Voxx's idea that words are easy to fake and votes are harder to do so, so everyone should always have their vote on who they think is scummiest at the time (unless you're voting for pressure or reactions or sometihg) for later analysys. I didn't care specifically WHO TS voted for, as long as he voted. The wording of your last question confuses me, idk if it's because alcohol or you phrased it weirdly, but I'll either come back to it later or you could try again with different words
Page 5 of a game with a 3-week deadline v. an entire day in a game with a 32-hour deadline. Never thought you'd be one of those Tammy is supposed to be super freaking town by page 5 when you know better.
I've been able to get nacho lynched when I've put my heart behind it, and yeah i can sometimes get scum lynched after they make a bad attack on me. Nacho's town here though.
My activity's not really alignment indicative usually.
I said i liked zedork, ts, tom, and fable for a couple reasons and had seppel as a scum read. I don't think it's fair of you to ignore that and claim that I hadn't done anything but be defensive. Sure it's not page 3 now, but i was responding to your claims on page three.
Not sure what I think about seppel right now.
I think the vote thing is stupid, btw, but that's a mafia theory thing and considering I'm a vote holder actually my words are more important, so I think your attack on TS for not voting when he wasn't sure is silly.
~~~
I'm sorry that I made people uncomfortable with my reaction. I was having a really crappy couple days this week. Even though it wasn't a personal attack in the slightest, it feels harsher and more personal when a friend piles on the attack especially when you're already just having a bad time. I shouldn't have reacted that way. Sorry.
maybe town: vaimes, tom, fable, TS
seppel might not be scum after all, huntzilla might be though.
don't know on anyone else
Unvote
For the first time using Sotek's vote machine thing on the recommendation of mallorean_thug, so hopefully that will be of some help when it comes to votal analysis.
Let me know if you want me to address anything, and I'll do my best to redeem this slot.
I'm town, and I thought that TS was pretty obvtown before I replaced in, so yeah.
Townreads:
ZDS is pretty town for his initial comments regarding the flavor. This is obviously dangerous territory to be playing around in, but I liked how he entered the flavor stuff with an agenda and he got what he wanted out of it (townreads). This townread, upon closer examination, isn't exactly as strong as I thought it was at first glance since ZDS is the guy to make very calm, reasonable posts as scum, and playing with fire can get you burned. I still like ZDS's first post though, and I think it came from a townie mindset - I don't see scum constricting themselves early game based on flavor.
Vaimes - I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the best at reading Vaimes compared to the rest of the DLP folk, and I know that Voxx said that if Vaimes is going to have a good scum game, he's probably going to have it on MTGS, since not many people know his meta well. That said, I think this is his town game. He's putting in the work to solve the game and narrow down the game state, and he's actively goading others to scumhunt as well (Matowar). I also liked his reply to Matowar scumreading him, while I think that scum!Vaimes would probably hide under a rock or something. I like his 198 as well, as I don't think scum !Vaimes would be able to brush a vote off like that while at the same time calling it opportunistic.
Axelrod - Ultimate lack of self awareness. I have to admit that I was super duper shocked at Axel flipping scum in Musical Mafia since I was following that game a bit, but Axel is just really carefree in this game rather than calculating and pretending to scumhunt. His first five posts show a distinct lack of self awareness - Axel just cares about having fun, rather than worrying how other people perceive him. I like how he's poking sticks by going "Scum?".
Fable07 - Pretty decent town read. I want him to be more transparent so I can take a look into how he's coming to the conclusions he's coming to, as I have no idea how he got Seppel and Vaimes as scum, but he's said some pretty solid things. This feels like a genuine attempt to get into tom's head here. I really like how he says "I have trouble trying to figure out what goes on inside his head", as it shows that he is actually trying to use the empathy method of scumhunting. His backpedal on Tammy is eeeeeh, but I like his sentiment regarding lurkers. Fable's fears of lurker scum are really genuine.
Seppel - I liked Seppel's first page and thought he was strongly town for continuing ZDS's flavor thing. Other than that, I've been pretty much nodding my head to Seppel's posts? His Fable and Hunt thing feels like Seppel believes that he caught scum, which I like. "Seppel feels like his play in GoldenEye" is kind of what I'm summing up his play to be.
tomsloger - Again I like the flavor confusion thing from the beginning. tom's Seppel case reminds me of his case on me in Twinborn Mafia, where he put out a decent-sounding case that was just wrong. I am inclined to think tom is also wrong in this game as well. I like where he's at with the "this game is stacked, Matowar is a mislynch scum need to get in order to win the game" as well. This townread isn't the strongest since I've never actually played with scum!tom before (just read two of scum!tom's games) so I don't have the best grasp on his meta, but I think he's townish.
Matowar - His "Do scum bus on Day 1" felt the vaguest of town to me. If I had a gun to my head, then I would say town at the moment because I've had a fair amount of experience playing with people like him recently, but it's not strong at all. His "I might be able to get some solid reads on people" also feels vaguely town to me.
Nacho - Hasn't really made an impression on me so far? Only thing is that he and Tammy voted each other and unvoted. I agree with Axel that I don't understand what he's trying to accomplish with the constantly changing names. This kind of worries me since from what I remember reading, town-leader like Nacho tends to be town Nacho, and he just hasn't done much this game.
Tammy - I am extremely paranoid of scum!Tammy because I was reading this game like a long time ago and just saw how good her scum game is. As for this game.. Once again, she hasn't made much of an impression on me so far? Most of her posts are caution with the flavor clearing thing, which I kind of agree with. I just kind of want to see more of her, now that she hopefully has her head back in the game. If she was a normal player I would sort of clear her for her emotional outbursts/trying to explain her actions from a townie mindset, but I know she has a good scum game, which is why I am reluctant to fully clear her.
Hunt - My litmus test for Hunt is: I read his first post. Do I like it? If so, he's probably scum. Is the post blatantly scummy? If so, he's probably town. I read his two big posts so far and got a "meh" feeling from them, which is why he's here. Maybe I'll reread them and judge my reaction again.
Mindreaver - I am surprised that he hasn't been pressured so far. I don't see any of his posts contributing towards solving the game. The posts at the beginning I sort of townread him for, but I really dislike how he placed an opportunistic vote for Matowar and I also dislike how he came so quickly to the conclusion that TappingStones and Vaimes were both town; it feels like inside information to me. It feels like he wanted to avoid discussing the fight, so he quickly just dismissed it as town on town (since he would know from his role PM). I also dislike the vote on Vaimes since he literally just said that they were both town prior, and it feels like scum trying to score a mislynch. His #231 is a "good post" but not necessarily a game-solving one. And I dislike the "eew" at Fable. It's honestly just feeling that he's just trying to keep his mislynch options open and I'm really not seeing any game solviness here. I could be wrong on this read, especially since I reread his opening posts again and they introduce a sliver of doubt in my mind, but I've played with town Mindreaver and I don't think this is town Mindreaver.
Vote Mindreaver
1st Post
In this post he has done like three separate scummy things. Aside from a somewhat late entrance to the thread (which he's pseudo explaining, except, not) this post feels very much like someone who is trying hard to fit in. He's commenting on the whole "everyone has a pig-pun name" thing well after the fact has already been established and discussed. Then he's very deliberately not commenting on anything else in the thread, claiming power-outage as the reason (which begs the question how he's posting at all, but, okay), and says he'll catch up tonight. He does not catch up tonight.
Then there was This mess of a post to follow up. I'll lead by saying that I find the big "wall 'o quotes catch up post" to be a favorite of scums from time immemorial. Can be done well, and be of substance, but this one isn't and he even disclaims it right up front with the whole "these will be my reactions in real time" nonsense, which is practically an excuse for why it's a bad post before he even makes it.
There's an easy agreement with ZDS, which isn't saying anything. There's some throwing of shade on Tammy, which isn't followed up on in any way I can see. I don't even know why he chose Fable's post as one to respond to as literally all Fable said was that Hunt needed to get in here. This appears to be Hunt being overly obsessed with anyone saying anything about him. I think scum are more obsessed with what other people are saying about them.
Then there are his quotes of me. First, I quote Hunt's first post (above) and said, "Scum?" Now, anyone in their right minds ought to be able to understand that post, but Hunt'a "real time" reaction is to ask "Are you claiming?"
What?
What is this question? Seriously, think about it for even a minute. What could Hunt possibly be thinking here that makes this question make any kind of sense? That I am claiming "Cop" on D1, and that I also have a guilty result on Hunt? Is that what he was asking me? Imagine you are Townie Hunt. Imagine you actually read that post of mine as me claiming that I had a guilty result on him. Is this what you do in that situation? I think not. Could he maybe have been uncertain about if I was actually "claiming" or not, as the post implies (and, aside, seriously, what kind of bone-headed false claim would this be from a scum-me anyway?) If you were trying to give him the benefit of the doubt you might think so, but the very next post ought to show you this can't be the case.
Because in the next post, where I quote TS's post and say the exact same thing: "Scum?" Hunt's response is:
So, apparently he thinks I have claimed Cop with TWO guilty results? On D1. And he doesn't believe me (shock), hence the vote. Which has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read in a game of Mafia. Like, people, please try to wrap your heads around this. How could he actually be thinking this as a Townie? Why wasn't the (false) claim on him enough to earn his vote. Why did it take me doing the same thing to someone else (which should have nullified the idea my original post was a "claim" to begin with.) On the other hand, paranoid scum, who is afraid I have somehow tagged him might lash out like this, not knowing what else to do? Especially after he saw TS attacking me for it first.
He then throws shade on Matowar, accusing him of fence-sitting and calling it "Not Pretty". A position he will almost immediately back-track on, trying to say that he never said it was anything alignment indicative, and he knows Matowar always fence sits. Really? Then what the hell was the point of commenting on it the way you commented on it in the first place? Hunt was totally throwing shade, and his attempt to say otherwise just reeks.
There was also that part where Tom asked him to elaborate on his scum read of me, and Hunt totally side-stepped, asking for Tom's opinion first. Which, I'm not sure Tom gave and I'm definitely sure Hunt never followed up on in any way. Which is also scummy.
Lord, this is a veritable potpourri of scumminess. How are people Town-reading this?
@Huntzilla: If you think Axelrod is scum, then why are you making zero effort to case him, or point out why you think he is scum?
Fable, can you update your town/scum list, and provide reasoning when you do so? I want to see how you think about the game.
Well, first Matowar. I have on occasion, withheld reads so as not to color somebody else's response. I can understand doing that. But I've never done it this early, and I can't see a town mindset for one of the first posts of the game being "I have opinions, but I'm going to wait to see which way the wind is blowing first". That had scummy written all over it, and deserved a vote.
Matowar responded by asking my opinion on TS/Vaimes. So I chimed in. I don't see how that was "quickly coming to a conclusion". I even referenced the game where I thought this was similar. I haven't re-read my post, but I suspect if I do, I wouldn't have cleared either one as town. Simply said that I didn't see anything that would make me lean scum on either one. That the "fight" wasn't indicative for either one. Even though Vaimes himself didn't agree, I think if you read the first 4 or 5 pages of off the grid, you'd see the parallels. As for TS, you probably have a lot more experience than I do with him. How would you read that exchange? Maybe that's an unfair question, considering your position. Also, I'll point out that I changed my mind of vaimes soon after that, in a post you apparently liked... So it's bizarre to say I had inside information on town!vaimes, and then made a townpost about scum!vaimes.
Fable I'm not sure about. That post *was* gross. I also continued to post on the subject. So it's not like I just said eww and left it. I can understand having a list of scumreads, I don't necessarily like the mindset of "I'm fine with any of these four and will just pull the trigger on any of them". Especially this early. Especially when he votes Nacho 5 posts later. That's just trying to find an easy target.
So my scumlean list is Fable or Mato, at the moment. The Tammy/Nacho thing seemed organic. If they are both scum, and that was a gambit, it was masterful. I'm reading into Axel/Tom a bit, especially about Tom's "mislynch" theory. I was thinking it wasn't a terrible way to approach the game, because the odds of scum being the easiest targets is so low, you might as well assume any push on those would be a mislynch. But leaving people out of that list, like Fable, like Hunt, seems to be a pretty big hole in the theory. Axel also has a point, that you can't just trust the odds and decide the good players aren't mislynches just because they are more experienced, or unpleasant, or more difficult to lynch. Anyone can be scum. So I don't know which mindset is coming from town, or if both are. Again, I don't think this is a scum/scum gambit.
ZDS-I dislike the tammy nitpick but I didn't realize he had no experience playing with tammy before so it does make more sense to me now. ZDS has developed a pattern of popping in once a day or so to give his take on current events and ask questions which seems very town to me. Strong town read.
Tammy-Anger over being picked on over something stupid seemed legit. I liked the way she called out seppel for his weak attack. I consider the emotional outburst stuff fluff so I'm ignoring that. Null leaning town.
Prophylaxis-Was reading TS as town right before he subbed out, resetting the read but I like what I'm seeing of prophy so far. Town read.
Mindreaver-Why the **** was I town reading MR before? Was I on drugs? He's been extremely wishy-washy and 99% lack content that progresses the game. He did talk to vaimes a bit but he's played with vaimes before so many he feels like that's a safe topic to talk about for him. Null leaning Scum.
Vaimes-The tunnel on tammy was awful and the way he got obsessed with TS not voting was weird. TS/Vaimes spat is garbage I'm ignoring. I disagree with 99% of what vaimes is doing but I think he is trying to solve the game or at least trying to appear to. Null
Mato-The different smiley after every sentence really throws me off, like tone wise he comes off as schizophrenic. He has said nothing of substance from what I can see, not liking what I'm seeing here. Null
Axel-Beginning of the game seemed like Axel was trying to skate by and I found the "scum?" posts annoying. I have noticed him turn up the dial a bit and get more serious recently I'm interesting to see where his game goes from here.
Nacho-Jumped on the tammy wagon super fast but jumped off just as fast when tammy got pissed at him for it. Nacho should not be this wishy-washy regarding tammy so I find that weird. Other than that he's been kinda distant. Null.
Huntzilla-Seems extremely self-conscious and his big catch-up post doesn't really address anything of importance. Null leaning Scum.
Seppel-Seemed really obsessed with the names early on and felt the need to remind everyone how "anti-pig" his name is a couple times. Was quick to call OMGUS on tammy after she called out his weak attack which I didn't like. Wanted to town read nacho which I don't like either considering seppel's stance on tammy. Seems like him wanting to take sides without having proper reasoning. Attack on me was weak considering it was based on something I never said. Strong scum read.
When I approach people like Matowar or any other newbie player, I always try to give them the benefit of the doubt as I know that they will be pretty much universally suspected. Your hop-on vote accompanying Seppel felt like you trying to pick the low hanging fruit, here.
As for your second paragraph, am I interpreting this wrong?
I was reading this and thought you were telling TappingStones and Vaimes "stop slapfighting, you're both town" which felt like an admission of inside information to me. How did you go from townreading Vaimes in this post, to scumreading him in your next?
@Fable - Point to me where tom's "protect the mislynches" plan starts on page 2? Did a quick skim of his posts there and I couldn't find it.
What do you make of Mindreaver's current content, specifically the post he made in response to me? I have a response written down but I want more people to weigh in on Mindreaver.
I am still having trouble seeing your scumread on Seppel. I just keep looking at Seppel's posts and see a townie who is wrong but truly believes that you are scum. Like, Seppel's #297 is slightly played up, but he is working on solving the game. Ditto with #233.
I don't exactly have much experience with scum!Seppel, but if I had to describe a Seppel that is working on solving the game, this Seppel would be it.
mato is actually two people in a horse costume.
but he probably saw me asking your slot about tammy mid page 2
As for my opinion on mindreavers's latest post I don't like it. It's bigger and has more detail than his other posts sure but it's still just him explaining himself. The last part about Tom's theory just seems like MR wanting to to keep every possible lynch (or mislynch) on the table to me.
As for Matowar, he's not as new as me lol. I definitely don't feel experienced yet. Certainly not enough that I'm giving "new player" passes out.
@Fable - is that scumread #6 for you? At this point, unless I'm missing something, you're comfortable lynching literally half the game today? And I'm the scummy one?
So it isn't like I haven't tried to get into the game. I just figured somebody would eventually be curious about me. I was already leaning town on that slot, but I'm reading proph as town for at least realizing that I haven't had interaction yet. That was a legit observation.