I just kind of post whatever I'm thinking.
I'm basically using the thread as my notes, I don't really keep notes outside of the game outside of vote counts in my spreadsheet.
Well, after D1 anyway. I usually hold my cards close until the first lynch so I don't ruin interactions and things.
Most of the time the interactions between scum happen before the first lynch, I think, so after that it's a matter of getting a scum flip and looking over D1 again.
It made this game especially difficult and ruled me out as Merlin early probably.
@shadow:
Nah. Well, maybe. What's going to happen is, I'll roll scum eventually and fold hard. Then people will figure out my playstyle isn't made for scum at all.
Or I'll bus the crap out of my buddies and be like Voxx, but.
It's not MY fault that my scum game looks the same as my town game. (It's totally my fault.)
I absolutely love this exchange. Not sure what it means for alignments, but I love it.
I'm going to stop this conversation thread right here to ensure that we're not impinging on the "talking about other games" rule, but please remind me when this game is done that I want to have a conversation.
I can't quite remember all of the conversation I wanted to have when this was over, but I know I wanted to ask Rhand if he would have caught me if Overwatch hadn't been a thing. I strongly suspected that I would be "caught" here because of my play in Overwatch, and then Rhand subsequently called me out. It was sorta frustrating that good play in one game pushed the balance of the scales against me in another game. I even wondered if it wouldn't have been as bad if Overwatch had ended before Avalon started. (This is going to continue to be a point of curiosity for me over my next few games, regardless of alignment.)
I was also concerned because I posted my response to Rhand, and then immediately felt like I might have crossed a line/implied my alignment in this game unintentionally/misleadingly.
I just kind of post whatever I'm thinking.
I'm basically using the thread as my notes, I don't really keep notes outside of the game outside of vote counts in my spreadsheet.
Well, after D1 anyway. I usually hold my cards close until the first lynch so I don't ruin interactions and things.
Most of the time the interactions between scum happen before the first lynch, I think, so after that it's a matter of getting a scum flip and looking over D1 again.
It made this game especially difficult and ruled me out as Merlin early probably.
@shadow:
Nah. Well, maybe. What's going to happen is, I'll roll scum eventually and fold hard. Then people will figure out my playstyle isn't made for scum at all.
Or I'll bus the crap out of my buddies and be like Voxx, but.
I hope we roll scum together and it's awesome.
@Cantrip: what was your post game thoughts you mentioned right as Overwatch ended? Also the way you phrased that post made me pretty sure you were scum when I went back over it later that day.
I was also concerned because I posted my response to Rhand, and then immediately felt like I might have crossed a line/implied my alignment in this game unintentionally/misleadingly.
Oh, that not being transparent on day 1 thing is why I almost always draw a wagon early but so far I've managed to disperse it.
The only time I actually almost got lynched for it was BareBones and I caught tom off of it, so...
@Cantrip: what was your post game thoughts you mentioned right as Overwatch ended? Also the way you phrased that post made me pretty sure you were scum when I went back over it later that day.
CARP. CARPCARPCARP. Yeah, I knew I should have kept my big mouth shut. Couldn't resist, though.
I am very interested in the psychological trappings of how players who have just had a good game (or a perceived good game) are read in subsequent games.
@Cantrip: what was your post game thoughts you mentioned right as Overwatch ended? Also the way you phrased that post made me pretty sure you were scum when I went back over it later that day.
CARP. CARPCARPCARP. Yeah, I knew I should have kept my big mouth shut. Couldn't resist, though.
I am very interested in the psychological trappings of how players who have just had a good game (or a perceived good game) are read in subsequent games.
The entire time early game when Silver read me as scum after Q2, I knew he was spectating Overwatch and wanted to say "You're seeing my scum game in Overwatch! This isn't it I'm totally town." Then I read the spec chat and realized that the no reveal meant he didn't know I was scum in Overwatch until like day 4.
And yeah, it's a big part of why I just didn't interact with you, I figured if I seemed to "know" you were scum and didn't say why ever, I might obfuscate for Merlin a little more.
Yeah, I didn't know until zomg spilled it, I was kind of floored you were scum again to be honest. Most of that post Q2 stuff was just my paranoia combined with the fact that I really, really couldn't figure out why you were so insistent on sitting off of quests instead of figuring out if it was me or D_V.
I think ultimately my own towniness screwed that up because it gave you and D_V free reign to point the finger at each other without much explanation.
But anyway. Yeah. Good game but I'm glad it's over. I probably won't play another Avalon at mini size. Maybe as a micro or something lol.
Yeah, I didn't know until zomg spilled it, I was kind of floored you were scum again to be honest. Most of that post Q2 stuff was just my paranoia combined with the fact that I really, really couldn't figure out why you were so insistent on sitting off of quests instead of figuring out if it was me or D_V.
I think ultimately my own towniness screwed that up because it gave you and D_V free reign to point the finger at each other without much explanation.
But anyway. Yeah. Good game but I'm glad it's over. I probably won't play another Avalon at mini size. Maybe as a micro or something lol.
I really did think I was being a martyr. Totally backfired.
I'd play again, micro would probably be better though, but I could be persuaded into a mini. I feel like we almost had it.
I wanted to wait for Iso to officially end it, but Bur posted so I'm jumping in too.
I've been reading along with this game the whole way and it was a fascinating read. I was pretty convinced by the end that Osie was Merlin and scum team was DV/Terry/Proph. Silver was the player I was most confindent in my read (well behind Vaimes as Percival) as a knight. Like he's said there were a couple of posts that couldn't have come from merlin that were made. That said I think he still played a good game and lowering the Merlin pool by 1 isn't the end of the world. I think having such a clearly town player to put on quests and be able to give reads without having to worry too much about obfuscating them is an asset. I couldn't figure out the last slot or Oberon. I had a weird tinfoil world where Silver was playing an incredible Oberon game and passing quests to set up a fail later that I was like 30% sure of.
I have no idea how that last quest got passed. Terry and DV were from my POV relatively easy to pick out as scum, but played it really well to keep grinding and playing hard. Blown away by Mindreaver being scum. Had me completely and utterly fooled so well played.
On the setup it seems like a really fun game, but not with the deadline lengths here. I think this would be a good game to have a much quicker pace for. Maybe a hard 48/72 hour limit would work. I think after this there won't be a huge groundswell of desire to fire another Avalon game right away, but I would definitely be up for trying one!
I'm really surprised that no one figured out that my slot was scum from my participation (or more like, lack of it) in this game...
I completely forgot that Brinatoo had replaced you and that you'd been in the game at all... When you said you'd replaced out and were Oberon I thought ohh Phroph was Oberon that makes complete sense the way he was playing.
Oh Mind, that italicized "post the scum!shadow would totally make" was about if quests had multiple scum on them but still wanted to appear only to have 1. Basically I would have openly wolfed a plan that just the first person alphabetically would fail the quest, and Oberon would pass vote until town had 2 passes.
Well, I pretty much knew Brinatoo was there at the end. I just didn't figure out he could be Oberon and that would mean Osi could be town.
Partly because I was so sure Oberon was on Q3. I blame Mindreaver entirely.
I think I had a post telling Rhand (Or was it Cantrip?) that Brinatoo was Oberon, but deleted that part of it since I wanted to see if they came to that conclusion themselves.
Yeah I think the game is actually stacked against us for the most part. The scum team is almost 50/50, and a Merlin hail Mary kill at the end will override good play.
But I have been thinking a lot about how to play, and I'd love it if people who have played this before stared some strats.
Since Merlin knows the scumteam, to find Merlin, scum are pretty much going to have to look for people who propose quests of all town, getting worse the more members required. So the best thing Merlin can do, and i can't tell if early is better than later on (ie, we should go for easy quest completes early on with the smaller teams, and maybe throw one around 5 members; or is it better to throw a 3 man team down the tubes to solidify not-merlin), would be to nominate a team that will fail. I know that might sound ridiculous, but it'll make Merlin-finding a lot harder.
Probably another good thing would be to disclose such a plot, in order to introduce WIFOM about the people proposing teams and the Merlin relationship. Check. Done.
I had considered all the knights should claim Merlin, like shadow did. But without flips, it's really hard to know what to believe. Something more subtle would be better, IMO.
Also, early game I thought you were Merlin because of this, but then your voting stopped making sense.
I was also going to claim Oberon. I figured it couldn't hurt.
Also, that was what made me pretty sure you were town lol. I had exactly the same thought, I just wasn't going to say anything until after we passed three quests because it wouldn't matter until then.
Oh ya, I was also still planning on claiming Oberon at that point.
I was planning to claim Oberon if it came to me.
My "everybody claim Oberon" came about because I was fairly certain I'd essentially proven to the scum that I wasn't Oberon. If the scum wouldn't believe my claim anyways, might as well make certain everyone knows the plan.
Oh ya, I was also still planning on claiming Oberon at that point.
I was planning to claim Oberon if it came to me.
That would have been hilarious to have them all out themselves, but I probably would have snapped to be honest.
I knew it would break you, I was hoping I could pull out the win. I was confident enough in AG being town that I was not overly worried about the fallout, but I was devising ways as to how to do it.
Oh Mind, that italicized "post the scum!shadow would totally make" was about if quests had multiple scum on them but still wanted to appear only to have 1. Basically I would have openly wolfed a plan that just the first person alphabetically would fail the quest, and Oberon would pass vote until town had 2 passes.
That's back in the beginning when I was tying to figure out how to signal
Eventually gave it up, and figured it would be better to just make it impossible for people to even try. The risks were too great.
Oh ya, I was also still planning on claiming Oberon at that point.
I was planning to claim Oberon if it came to me.
My "everybody claim Oberon" came about because I was fairly certain I'd essentially proven to the scum that I wasn't Oberon. If the scum wouldn't believe my claim anyways, might as well make certain everyone knows the plan.
There were too many reasonable reasons to include you, you were a natural compromise and it truly was lucky the propose order was what it was. When I ever looked and saw you, osi, shadow; and you wanted to add shadow, I was like "omg, I can totally make the argument that this is all we get, and we shouldn't risk everything on shadow's iffy alignment". Who are the choices then? Nothing good. AG can't propose himself, shadow and osi are nobo, brin is absent, D_V/Cantrip/Terry are scum. I knew as soon as that was out there, you were screwed. The fact that you took so long, and came up with such an unorthodox solution, gave me lots of pause about your merlin status. Even though it was a failing quest, it came damn close to getting voted down (although D_V and Cantrip could have hammered like 12 hours earlier, but I understand why they waited for Silver; a quick vote by Vaimes would have derailed it).
Shadow, you're beautiful. I got a tear in my eye. Whichever team you're on, you're doing a fantastic job.
That post bothered the ***** out of me, because I could not figure you out (I was leaning town at that point) and silver's argument was annoying. Eventually I caved... And then silver swapped on that later and it freaked me the hell out.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd played a bit of Avalon with Seppel IRL and enjoyed it, finding it rather similar to Mafia. Instead of flips, players had quest results to analyze, which were slightly like flips but with less certainty attached. I feel like that was information the town did not utilize strongly enough. I also didn't see much vote analysis based on quest proposals vs. quest fails. Obviously Avalon isn't Mafia, but we were short on Minis (which is why I went with 12), and I wanted to share this game with everyone since I had a lot of fun playing it. I had help from an IRL friend who had a lot of Avalon experience in deciding the balance for 12-man. I think the numbers show we had the right amount of each alignment in play, and that Oberon was necessary to include. I also wanted to run Avalon because the way I structured the deadlines, the game would basically run itself. I wanted there to be plenty of time with which to discuss a team proposal, especially on Quest 1, and figured it would be reasonable to have a decreasing deadline for each time a quest proposal was shot down. I don't think the game went on too long, and if any of the phases were arduous-seeming, it was probably due to my busy schedule + the lack of flips.
I made a series of executive decisions prior to the game starting and shortly into the game starting to combat a few issues I saw when I thought a little more about things.
Firstly, I decided that the scum would not be allowed to talk amongst themselves until an Assassin target was being determined. This was partially to emulate the IRL style of play for Avalon, and partially to balance the large number of scum compared to town. It made it slightly harder for the scum to coordinate their fails, but given that they still won, it clearly wasn't a decision that crippled their team, and I think it was the right call, accordingly.
Secondly, I knew my games have pervasive activity issues, partially due to my own busy schedule, and partially for reasons I still haven't figured out. The scum literally automatically win this game if lurking runs rampant, so I decided to favor the town with the rule where if the deadline was met, all non-voters chose to be in favor. This addressed a few things: It meant that the scum couldn't automatically win from questing parties not getting enough votes to be approved, it meant that lurking town couldn't hurt their team due to inactivity, and it meant scum couldn't screw up quest proposals and pass/fails by lurking past deadline. Policing activity in my games is one of my least favorite things to do, and in spite of the handful of replacements, I think this rule + the deadline system prevented activity from dying down too hard (sans Proph and Vaimes, of course) and addressed the rules in place that favor the scum without weighing the game too heavily in their favor.
Finally, I felt that players shouldn't be allowed to self-nominate or vote on quests they proposed. The reason for the former is because it requires less critical thinking - which is the opposite of what the game encourages, as everyone would just auto-in themselves in their own quest - and the reason for the latter is because there is no reason not to approve your own proposed quest both as scum or town. As scum, you want to look like you believe your reads. As town, you believe your reads. I feel like removing the quest proposer's ability to self-nominate and self-vote was a decision beneficial to the overall health of the game.
I didn't follow the votes or discussion too closely - after all, time is a thing and I ran this setup for a reason - but it felt like the town took too long to get their bearings and then were too fatigued to follow them through in the end. I can get behind arguments in favor of a smaller Avalon setup for that reason.
I'm disappointed that Vaimes felt like he couldn't post after he was outed as Percival, and that Merlin, himself, was not invested in the game, either. That said, I felt like Proph did a good job of organically fabricating and growing his reads as the game went on so as to not draw scum eyes to his slot.
Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed the game. Thanks for playing, and see you next time~ Let me know if you guys have any questions. (No, there was not a spec chat, either.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Huge apologies for just. Not Playing The Game, guys, and I'd like to extend sincerest apologies to shadow and osieorb, as well as Iso, for directly harming the gamestate due to my lurking as Merlin.
Turns out, being Merlin was not the interesting challenge I thought it was and it was just a huge factor in me lurking because I didn't have to figure out the gamestate! I just needed to "not get caught" which was far less interesting than I thought it would be at first.
I tried my best to really get into the game by posting the huge wall post at the start when I replaced in but I just could never ever get into the game when I knew most of all the scum. Then I just got extremely extremely busy with school and stuff and just stopped posting in the game altogether. There are times where mafia feels like a chore to do at times, but I stick it out because I hate replacing from games and have never really done it.
With this game, I was extremely busy, PLUS I had zero motivation to put in any work because no one could "die" and also because I knew the entire scumteam. Put two and two together and that led to me just peacing out lategame.
Also, this game just wasn't mafia, and the amount of mechanics/EV discussion kind of turned me off as well when I was reading? Stuff like "oh, there is stuff online that talks about the best mechanical plays, but I'm not going to share it because it helps the scumteam" or "I'm going to talk in codes to make the scum confused" or "Here's this analysis but I'm not going to post it in the thread" was just hugely demoralizing since I'm not a mechanical player at all. I get that some players enjoy this thing a lot, but I don't, and it was my mistake to replace in when I should have known all this. Sorry, Iso, for being such a crummy replacement - I just got caught up on the mental challenge of knowing the entire scumteam instead of the actual game itself.
osieorb in particular was a pleasure to play with and I was impressed at how he improved at the game from when the game started to now. Hope to play more games with him. D_V was good at pocketing me.
Secondly, I knew my games have pervasive activity issues, partially due to my own busy schedule, and partially for reasons I still haven't figured out.
Dude, seriously, get a co-mod or something for your games. There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't have been replaced when I didn't post in the thread for like two weeks, and even though this game didn't require constant mod upkeep there were several instances where the modding could have been improved. I second Seppel here:
This win feels hollow. The town didn't care, and the mods weren't attentive to the game at all.
Iso, one of my biggest complaints about your games are a lack of consistent+accurate votecounts with a list of players who aren't voting.
Showing that you care by including everyone in a daily to bi-daily update keeps the game moving.
Kind of just a general observation but it feels like you've been phoning in mafia ever since the Invitational ended. Maybe take a month off or something to recharge your batteries?
(Sorry if the above sounds unnecessarily harsh, I just wanted to be a little candid)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Huge apologies for just. Not Playing The Game, guys, and I'd like to extend sincerest apologies to shadow and osieorb, as well as Iso, for directly harming the gamestate due to my lurking as Merlin.
It's okay. I understand the reasons behind lurking a little too well. I did like your entrance a lot, at least.
I tried my best to really get into the game by posting the huge wall post at the start when I replaced in but I just could never ever get into the game when I knew most of all the scum. Then I just got extremely extremely busy with school and stuff and just stopped posting in the game altogether. There are times where mafia feels like a chore to do at times, but I stick it out because I hate replacing from games and have never really done it.
Yeah, this kinda happened to me as well in the mid-late game (not to mention other more personal issues that affected things on the moderation side as well). I think the fact that
Also, this game just wasn't mafia, and the amount of mechanics/EV discussion kind of turned me off as well when I was reading? Stuff like "oh, there is stuff online that talks about the best mechanical plays, but I'm not going to share it because it helps the scumteam" or "I'm going to talk in codes to make the scum confused" or "Here's this analysis but I'm not going to post it in the thread" was just hugely demoralizing since I'm not a mechanical player at all. I get that some players enjoy this thing a lot, but I don't, and it was my mistake to replace in when I should have known all this.
definitely didn't help things there. I'm somewhere in the middle. I like mechanical games to some degree (heck, that's the main reason I like Magic). But especially when I'm getting introduced to a game, information overload can kinda happen if I don't have enough interest in the game beyond the basic mechanics, hence why I also avoided jumping into Mafia for a while after becoming a mod. Though that may have also had something to do with several people telling me it was a bad idea. Not the first thing where people might consider me a masochist.
osieorb in particular was a pleasure to play with and I was impressed at how he improved at the game from when the game started to now. Hope to play more games with him.
Thanks. Realizing that if I just tried to act like I knew what I was doing despite not really being certain, it would not work in my favor, helped.
The code-speaking was somewhat of an element of trying to keep the game interesting, especially at the point when read walls were suggested to be a generally bad idea.
Not trying to backseat mod (MTGS mod, not game mod) for iso is a lesson that may or may not have been learned here as well.
I'll need to get used to the more basic forum Mafia games, which will come mostly with time and experience. At the moment it still sometimes feels like I'm reading gobbledegook when looking at even a basic thread, which is unfortunate. But I've been working on it since a little before signups for this game, and am joining in on another game (Revolution Mafia), which should prove interesting. I get the theory behind the game reasonably well, though, so that helps out. I have some ideas for games in and of themselves, so I'll probably be around, unless something comes up IRL that keeps me off MTGS for a while. (Certainly possible... ) Not sure how I'd do at hosting, but that also is very dependent on IRL schedule whether or not it happens.
Osi, You have a gift of making your posts completely unreadable and even harder to respond to.
Forsooth, thy plight doth move mine heart. Thou hath presented a claim of some veracity. Lack of regularity being present in such a manner of speech results from that which hath been imparted unto myself. A sad eye one turns toward thy critique, for naught that it be undue, but that it not present an entirely just portrayal of reasons for misconception.
Sorry. If you want hard to read...
I'm not entirely sure what about my posts leads to them being hard for you to read. But maybe it'll get better in the future. I'm guessing that it's mostly a stylistic thing. You're not the first person to tell me that about how I post or speak, though, and you probably won't be the last.
Gah we should've sticked to Q3+Shadow after all :/
I'm sad that Proph rolled Merlin. I think that's what caused him to not post. As Merlin, crafting the analysis posts that I was looking for from him would be a heavy chore.
And that's what took me off Mind, which I should've never allowed myself to do.
Although I feel like I played well and was one of the engines to keep the game rolling, I also think I'm to blame for our loss by being too sure of my reads in the end.
Osi, You have a gift of making your posts completely unreadable and even harder to respond to.
Forsooth, thy plight doth move mine heart. Thou hath presented a claim of some veracity. Lack of regularity being present in such a manner of speech results from that which hath been imparted unto myself. A sad eye one turns toward thy critique, for naught that it be undue, but that it not present an entirely just portrayal of reasons for misconception.
Sorry. If you want hard to read...
I'm not entirely sure what about my posts leads to them being hard for you to read. But maybe it'll get better in the future. I'm guessing that it's mostly a stylistic thing. You're not the first person to tell me that about how I post or speak, though, and you probably won't be the last.
I know that was a bit harsh, but it was in character. It was really about your quote walls being hard to go through point for point and there was some lack of clarity on what you were actually getting at.
I know that was a bit harsh, but it was in character. It was really about your quote walls being hard to go through point for point and there was some lack of clarity on what you were actually getting at.
Nah, it's all in good fun. I know my posts are sometimes pretty lengthy and complex. I was mostly just amused at your comment, not really bothered by it.
I just kind of post whatever I'm thinking.
I'm basically using the thread as my notes, I don't really keep notes outside of the game outside of vote counts in my spreadsheet.
Well, after D1 anyway. I usually hold my cards close until the first lynch so I don't ruin interactions and things.
Most of the time the interactions between scum happen before the first lynch, I think, so after that it's a matter of getting a scum flip and looking over D1 again.
It made this game especially difficult and ruled me out as Merlin early probably.
@shadow:
Nah. Well, maybe. What's going to happen is, I'll roll scum eventually and fold hard. Then people will figure out my playstyle isn't made for scum at all.
Or I'll bus the crap out of my buddies and be like Voxx, but.
I was also concerned because I posted my response to Rhand, and then immediately felt like I might have crossed a line/implied my alignment in this game unintentionally/misleadingly.
@Cantrip: what was your post game thoughts you mentioned right as Overwatch ended? Also the way you phrased that post made me pretty sure you were scum when I went back over it later that day.
The only time I actually almost got lynched for it was BareBones and I caught tom off of it, so...
CARP. CARPCARPCARP. Yeah, I knew I should have kept my big mouth shut. Couldn't resist, though.
I am very interested in the psychological trappings of how players who have just had a good game (or a perceived good game) are read in subsequent games.
And yeah, it's a big part of why I just didn't interact with you, I figured if I seemed to "know" you were scum and didn't say why ever, I might obfuscate for Merlin a little more.
I think ultimately my own towniness screwed that up because it gave you and D_V free reign to point the finger at each other without much explanation.
But anyway. Yeah. Good game but I'm glad it's over. I probably won't play another Avalon at mini size. Maybe as a micro or something lol.
I'd play again, micro would probably be better though, but I could be persuaded into a mini. I feel like we almost had it.
I've been reading along with this game the whole way and it was a fascinating read. I was pretty convinced by the end that Osie was Merlin and scum team was DV/Terry/Proph. Silver was the player I was most confindent in my read (well behind Vaimes as Percival) as a knight. Like he's said there were a couple of posts that couldn't have come from merlin that were made. That said I think he still played a good game and lowering the Merlin pool by 1 isn't the end of the world. I think having such a clearly town player to put on quests and be able to give reads without having to worry too much about obfuscating them is an asset. I couldn't figure out the last slot or Oberon. I had a weird tinfoil world where Silver was playing an incredible Oberon game and passing quests to set up a fail later that I was like 30% sure of.
I have no idea how that last quest got passed. Terry and DV were from my POV relatively easy to pick out as scum, but played it really well to keep grinding and playing hard. Blown away by Mindreaver being scum. Had me completely and utterly fooled so well played.
On the setup it seems like a really fun game, but not with the deadline lengths here. I think this would be a good game to have a much quicker pace for. Maybe a hard 48/72 hour limit would work. I think after this there won't be a huge groundswell of desire to fire another Avalon game right away, but I would definitely be up for trying one!
Partly because I was so sure Oberon was on Q3. I blame Mindreaver entirely.
I completely forgot that Brinatoo had replaced you and that you'd been in the game at all... When you said you'd replaced out and were Oberon I thought ohh Phroph was Oberon that makes complete sense the way he was playing.
I think I had a post telling Rhand (Or was it Cantrip?) that Brinatoo was Oberon, but deleted that part of it since I wanted to see if they came to that conclusion themselves.
Also, that was what made me pretty sure you were town lol. I had exactly the same thought, I just wasn't going to say anything until after we passed three quests because it wouldn't matter until then.
My "everybody claim Oberon" came about because I was fairly certain I'd essentially proven to the scum that I wasn't Oberon. If the scum wouldn't believe my claim anyways, might as well make certain everyone knows the plan.
Eventually gave it up, and figured it would be better to just make it impossible for people to even try. The risks were too great.
That post bothered the ***** out of me, because I could not figure you out (I was leaning town at that point) and silver's argument was annoying. Eventually I caved... And then silver swapped on that later and it freaked me the hell out.
Yes (6): shadowlancerx, Rhand, Mindreaver, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Silvercrys3467, Cantripmancer
No (3): osieorb18, Prophylaxis, D_V
The quest has been approved.
Additionally, the quest has been failed with 2 fail votes.
Mordred's forces are victorious. The Knights of Camelot have lost.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Anyway. It probably got buried but thanks again for hosting Iso.
Seconded. Proph as Merlin is frustrating. Though I'm glad I managed to make the Assassin think that I was Merlin instead. That's something, at least.
And the same. Despite the timing and moments of frustration, this was all-in-all a good game.
I'd played a bit of Avalon with Seppel IRL and enjoyed it, finding it rather similar to Mafia. Instead of flips, players had quest results to analyze, which were slightly like flips but with less certainty attached. I feel like that was information the town did not utilize strongly enough. I also didn't see much vote analysis based on quest proposals vs. quest fails. Obviously Avalon isn't Mafia, but we were short on Minis (which is why I went with 12), and I wanted to share this game with everyone since I had a lot of fun playing it. I had help from an IRL friend who had a lot of Avalon experience in deciding the balance for 12-man. I think the numbers show we had the right amount of each alignment in play, and that Oberon was necessary to include. I also wanted to run Avalon because the way I structured the deadlines, the game would basically run itself. I wanted there to be plenty of time with which to discuss a team proposal, especially on Quest 1, and figured it would be reasonable to have a decreasing deadline for each time a quest proposal was shot down. I don't think the game went on too long, and if any of the phases were arduous-seeming, it was probably due to my busy schedule + the lack of flips.
I made a series of executive decisions prior to the game starting and shortly into the game starting to combat a few issues I saw when I thought a little more about things.
Firstly, I decided that the scum would not be allowed to talk amongst themselves until an Assassin target was being determined. This was partially to emulate the IRL style of play for Avalon, and partially to balance the large number of scum compared to town. It made it slightly harder for the scum to coordinate their fails, but given that they still won, it clearly wasn't a decision that crippled their team, and I think it was the right call, accordingly.
Secondly, I knew my games have pervasive activity issues, partially due to my own busy schedule, and partially for reasons I still haven't figured out. The scum literally automatically win this game if lurking runs rampant, so I decided to favor the town with the rule where if the deadline was met, all non-voters chose to be in favor. This addressed a few things: It meant that the scum couldn't automatically win from questing parties not getting enough votes to be approved, it meant that lurking town couldn't hurt their team due to inactivity, and it meant scum couldn't screw up quest proposals and pass/fails by lurking past deadline. Policing activity in my games is one of my least favorite things to do, and in spite of the handful of replacements, I think this rule + the deadline system prevented activity from dying down too hard (sans Proph and Vaimes, of course) and addressed the rules in place that favor the scum without weighing the game too heavily in their favor.
Finally, I felt that players shouldn't be allowed to self-nominate or vote on quests they proposed. The reason for the former is because it requires less critical thinking - which is the opposite of what the game encourages, as everyone would just auto-in themselves in their own quest - and the reason for the latter is because there is no reason not to approve your own proposed quest both as scum or town. As scum, you want to look like you believe your reads. As town, you believe your reads. I feel like removing the quest proposer's ability to self-nominate and self-vote was a decision beneficial to the overall health of the game.
I didn't follow the votes or discussion too closely - after all, time is a thing and I ran this setup for a reason - but it felt like the town took too long to get their bearings and then were too fatigued to follow them through in the end. I can get behind arguments in favor of a smaller Avalon setup for that reason.
I'm disappointed that Vaimes felt like he couldn't post after he was outed as Percival, and that Merlin, himself, was not invested in the game, either. That said, I felt like Proph did a good job of organically fabricating and growing his reads as the game went on so as to not draw scum eyes to his slot.
Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed the game. Thanks for playing, and see you next time~ Let me know if you guys have any questions. (No, there was not a spec chat, either.)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Turns out, being Merlin was not the interesting challenge I thought it was and it was just a huge factor in me lurking because I didn't have to figure out the gamestate! I just needed to "not get caught" which was far less interesting than I thought it would be at first.
I tried my best to really get into the game by posting the huge wall post at the start when I replaced in but I just could never ever get into the game when I knew most of all the scum. Then I just got extremely extremely busy with school and stuff and just stopped posting in the game altogether. There are times where mafia feels like a chore to do at times, but I stick it out because I hate replacing from games and have never really done it.
With this game, I was extremely busy, PLUS I had zero motivation to put in any work because no one could "die" and also because I knew the entire scumteam. Put two and two together and that led to me just peacing out lategame.
Also, this game just wasn't mafia, and the amount of mechanics/EV discussion kind of turned me off as well when I was reading? Stuff like "oh, there is stuff online that talks about the best mechanical plays, but I'm not going to share it because it helps the scumteam" or "I'm going to talk in codes to make the scum confused" or "Here's this analysis but I'm not going to post it in the thread" was just hugely demoralizing since I'm not a mechanical player at all. I get that some players enjoy this thing a lot, but I don't, and it was my mistake to replace in when I should have known all this. Sorry, Iso, for being such a crummy replacement - I just got caught up on the mental challenge of knowing the entire scumteam instead of the actual game itself.
osieorb in particular was a pleasure to play with and I was impressed at how he improved at the game from when the game started to now. Hope to play more games with him. D_V was good at pocketing me.
Kind of just a general observation but it feels like you've been phoning in mafia ever since the Invitational ended. Maybe take a month off or something to recharge your batteries?
(Sorry if the above sounds unnecessarily harsh, I just wanted to be a little candid)
I do definitely need some time off, though.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It is not a recipe for success when you run a lot of games but don't take the time to mod them properly.
It's okay. I understand the reasons behind lurking a little too well. I did like your entrance a lot, at least.
Yeah, this kinda happened to me as well in the mid-late game (not to mention other more personal issues that affected things on the moderation side as well). I think the fact that
definitely didn't help things there. I'm somewhere in the middle. I like mechanical games to some degree (heck, that's the main reason I like Magic). But especially when I'm getting introduced to a game, information overload can kinda happen if I don't have enough interest in the game beyond the basic mechanics, hence why I also avoided jumping into Mafia for a while after becoming a mod. Though that may have also had something to do with several people telling me it was a bad idea. Not the first thing where people might consider me a masochist.
Thanks. Realizing that if I just tried to act like I knew what I was doing despite not really being certain, it would not work in my favor, helped.
The code-speaking was somewhat of an element of trying to keep the game interesting, especially at the point when read walls were suggested to be a generally bad idea.
Not trying to backseat mod (MTGS mod, not game mod) for iso is a lesson that may or may not have been learned here as well.
I'll need to get used to the more basic forum Mafia games, which will come mostly with time and experience. At the moment it still sometimes feels like I'm reading gobbledegook when looking at even a basic thread, which is unfortunate. But I've been working on it since a little before signups for this game, and am joining in on another game (Revolution Mafia), which should prove interesting. I get the theory behind the game reasonably well, though, so that helps out. I have some ideas for games in and of themselves, so I'll probably be around, unless something comes up IRL that keeps me off MTGS for a while. (Certainly possible... ) Not sure how I'd do at hosting, but that also is very dependent on IRL schedule whether or not it happens.
Forsooth, thy plight doth move mine heart. Thou hath presented a claim of some veracity. Lack of regularity being present in such a manner of speech results from that which hath been imparted unto myself. A sad eye one turns toward thy critique, for naught that it be undue, but that it not present an entirely just portrayal of reasons for misconception.
Sorry. If you want hard to read...
I'm not entirely sure what about my posts leads to them being hard for you to read. But maybe it'll get better in the future. I'm guessing that it's mostly a stylistic thing. You're not the first person to tell me that about how I post or speak, though, and you probably won't be the last.
I like how one of my very first comments in this thread, which was basically a Knight claim, went mostly unnoticed:
I'm sad that Proph rolled Merlin. I think that's what caused him to not post. As Merlin, crafting the analysis posts that I was looking for from him would be a heavy chore.
And that's what took me off Mind, which I should've never allowed myself to do.
Although I feel like I played well and was one of the engines to keep the game rolling, I also think I'm to blame for our loss by being too sure of my reads in the end.
Nah, it's all in good fun. I know my posts are sometimes pretty lengthy and complex. I was mostly just amused at your comment, not really bothered by it.