I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I've played 3 games with LW so far, and he's always scummy. I voted him in the 1st game with him cuz of his behavior, but he turned out to be town. I've yet to see his scumgame, but I'm sure he would have buds quell the heat by now since attracting this much attention early on won't benefit on the long run. overall, this much attention on a generally scummy player just doesn't feel right.
why would scum put themselves out there for a scummy buddy?
give me a small writeup of how u play. much appreciated. thanks.
trolling on purpose? this kind of behavior isn't helpful to town yknow. if I have no scumreads by the end of the Day, I sure won't mind lynching u. just saying.
give me a small writeup of how u play. much appreciated. thanks.
trolling on purpose? this kind of behavior isn't helpful to town yknow. if I have no scumreads by the end of the Day, I sure won't mind lynching u. just saying.
youll learn to love me
I hope so <3
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Tom can be town for now, but I do want Post-Game credit for calling out Tom + LW at the beginning of Page 2 if they flip scum by the end of the game.
IDK about Tom, but u you are so off about my flip, and ur confidence is gunna be the end of you, if I can expect this to be ur play all game
How much experience playing mafia do you have LW?
8 or so games maybe?
if u want a link to a few I can send them ur way, but that wont happen till I get out of work
Well, I've played mafia for over 10 years, so I'm right and you're wrong. For some reason, I rub people the wrong way on here, but only when I'm town. Is English your first language?
ok... But I'm telling you, that you are wrong lol... And English is my first language lol
Bah Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry. Stupid mobile bold tags.
@Llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllngr: is that for serious? Are you really just going to assume everyone who betrays you has no town reason for doing so?
I'm laughing at D_V's post 11 because the gif looks like Meg infinitely giving his approval.
he's probably that guy that tells you not to betray so that he can garner a few extra BP early on, and ya it's a very simplistic way of justifying a vote.
Please don't let this be a dueling meme game. I'll lose my mind.
I will:
Vote: Tomsloger
for being essentially unreadable. One less thing to worry about, etc. etc.
Looking forward to a good game.
Meh. Undecided.
In other news, I'd like to propose that no one is allowed to betray except by advance agreement/clearance by the town. Partly because if anyone betrays me, I'm probably insta-dead. Which seems like a thing where if someone would try to do that to me, they shouldn't have an excuse, and I'm likely not the only one. Thoughts?
Also, be sure to volunteer enough role info while discussing the above that the scum can figure out sensitive role info and identify vulnerable targets and town power roles, ktxhbye.
Vote Last Whisper. Iso, care to confirm? KJ read also?
Why did you point out two people as scum and then vote someone different?
In other news, I'd like to propose that no one is allowed to betray except by advance agreement/clearance by the town. Partly because if anyone betrays me, I'm probably insta-dead. Which seems like a thing where if someone would try to do that to me, they shouldn't have an excuse, and I'm likely not the only one. Thoughts?
I am onboard with the idea of making a list at the end of the day of people I am okay with betraying me if I get paired up with them.
At that point, aren't you basically just making a readlist? That's not outside of the realm of normal reasonable actions; I'm not sure why we're making a big deal about it.
Yeah, town could feasibly generate some pretty incredible extra lynch potential by judiciously organizing this mechanic. That's practically game-breaking. *strokes chin*
Funny, because the only thing I'm feeling there is that they almost definitely wouldn't be scum together.
I wouldn't put it past Azrael to pocket a scumbuddy… Heck, I wouldn't put it past Azrael to pocket anybody. Maybe I should actually learn how to read Azrael, instead of just assuming that all he does as either alignment is pocket people, poke at people, and participate promisingly, lol.
Based solely on the source material, I don't think anyone can die on round one of the AB game.
As I said to D_V earlier in this post, you should stop it, too. That said, to entertain this line of thinking for just a tiny bit, that would strictly means that there are no roles that can lose a player 2 BP prior to the AB game, which seems like a bit of a stretch.
I've seen Terry time and time again bus as scum. This is the only mode he seems to know as scum and he draws huge red flags when he does this sort of behavior to me. That being said he seems more stuck in his ways a lot of time when he is scum and his flow on Azreal may be more town than scum. I've been annoyed that he is ignoring his wagon for the moment and hope he maybe addresses it. He also is sort of bussing Tom for no good reason though so maybe Tom and him are scum.
I was going to say that this seems rather overly focused on meta, then I remembered to who I was talking ( ) and noticed the bit about ignoring wagons. What do you think of Tom this game outside of his interactions with Terry?
If someone were to start the game with 1 BP, they could die if they Ally and their partner betrays.
Damnit, Terry. Also, according to setup, everyone starts the game with 3 BP. Unless you're claiming a character that starts with 1 BP this early for no clear reason.
I'm not fully surprised that you were in that group, but I have reasons to believe you are town.
That's not very nice. Also, D_V's vote on you could certainly have been thought out. He also describes his thoughts on you in #114, 15 minutes before you made this post.
Just noting that ISO is setting up a dichotomy here and I don't appreciate it. When people put this down as fact it's often a scum attempt to chain mislynch. EGMEOY ISO.
They are the top two wagons… Also, if you have a problem with Iso, put your money where your mouth is and vote him.
Also, what does "EGMEOY" mean? "Especially Given My Experience Of You?" "Eventually Garam Masala Elegantly Observes Yodeling?"
I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I've played 3 games with LW so far, and he's always scummy. I voted him in the 1st game with him cuz of his behavior, but he turned out to be town. I've yet to see his scumgame, but I'm sure he would have buds quell the heat by now since attracting this much attention early on won't benefit on the long run. overall, this much attention on a generally scummy player just doesn't feel right.
Well, I've played mafia for over 10 years, so I'm right and you're wrong. For some reason, I rub people the wrong way on here, but only when I'm town. Is English your first language?
Maybe it's because of arrogant-sounding posts like this one?
Also, you've rubbed people here, myself included, the wrong way ( ) as scum before, too.
I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I've played 3 games with LW so far, and he's always scummy. I voted him in the 1st game with him cuz of his behavior, but he turned out to be town. I've yet to see his scumgame, but I'm sure he would have buds quell the heat by now since attracting this much attention early on won't benefit on the long run. overall, this much attention on a generally scummy player just doesn't feel right.
why would scum put themselves out there for a scummy buddy?
Reverse psychology?
~~~~
Vote: Dawningbluesky for raisins, until I have a more concrete readlist.
I don't know how I feel about Tom, its Tom. Could be town, could be scum. He is sort of gimmicking right now with no real content. Meh.
Yes I need the three points as fast as possible.
I typically don't focus on Meta much. But with Terry its been like 3 games I've seen him do this. 2 of the games I was his partner and saw it first hand. So, I feel pretty confident about saying that is part of the meta. If he continues on that path it will be pretty obvious soon.
I don't know how I feel about Tom, its Tom. Could be town, could be scum. He is sort of gimmicking right now with no real content. Meh.
Yes I need the three points as fast as possible.
I typically don't focus on Meta much. But with Terry its been like 3 games I've seen him do this. 2 of the games I was his partner and saw it first hand. So, I feel pretty confident about saying that is part of the meta. If he continues on that path it will be pretty obvious soon.
What will be obvious? Because I'm pushing a case on someone I think is scum, you're calling me scum? Should I push a case on an obvious townie to prove I'm town? I'll say this again, just because I bus as scum, it does not mean that I am scum. Your logic makes no sense. Who am I bussing? LW? Tom? who?
I don't know how I feel about Tom, its Tom. Could be town, could be scum. He is sort of gimmicking right now with no real content. Meh.
Yes I need the three points as fast as possible.
I typically don't focus on Meta much. But with Terry its been like 3 games I've seen him do this. 2 of the games I was his partner and saw it first hand. So, I feel pretty confident about saying that is part of the meta. If he continues on that path it will be pretty obvious soon.
What will be obvious? Because I'm pushing a case on someone I think is scum, you're calling me scum? Should I push a case on an obvious townie to prove I'm town? I'll say this again, just because I bus as scum, it does not mean that I am scum. Your logic makes no sense. Who am I bussing? LW? Tom? who?
Terry don't bull***** me.
You've even said you do this in scum chats. I can go pull it up if you want.
HI! :hello:
Out of Lastwhisper, Azrael, RSJT, and Tom, how many scum do you think there are there, who do you think they are, and why?
maybe Tom, I can't make out what he's trying to do. tho an explanation of his playstyle would help clear things up, and he's not gonna share it. that's the most I got. Azrael hasn't gotten much heat for the random accusations he's been making, compared to the others, so that is smthing I might look into as well.
That's a fantastic phrase. I might steal this in the future.
why thank you~ I tend to use that alot
New here, but experienced at mafia in general?
this would be my 20th game, and I've only played the forum variant, up to date. as for experience...I think Shinichi or Grapefruit can vouch for it. better than me and self-meta, right?
Eww.
I would like to ask u the same question. a small writeup of how u play would be appreciated. I can't read ppl if I have no clue of what they're doing.
Lastwhisper seems okay to me at the moment.
glad to see we agree
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@DV: As far as your Betraying people goes, I know what you are doing and I think it's fine, but you need to be careful who you betray. People can ABSOLUTELY die from being betrayed Night 1. If your BP reaches 0 you die. If someone were to start the game with 1 BP, they could die if they Ally and their partner betrays. I play that way as scum because that's the way I play as town.
I have not been ignoring my wagon. Where did you come up with that? I addressed it when it first started happening. I'm a bit concerned that so many people just jumped on it with out actually thinking about it. I'm not fully surprised that you were in that group, but I have reasons to believe you are town.
I mean, yeah if you started with 2 or less BP, sure. But I doubt anyone did.
In the games, everyone started with three BP specifically to avoid dying to one betrayal. Did anyone start with less than three BP? I feel like if we're claming at 1, we should probably claim at 2 as well. There's no way to lose just one BP, so two is as deadly as one.
ok. any scumreads other than LW? he was alrdy the leading train after StinkyJoe. we should be constructive with our time. no read on LW atm, maybe leaning town for the activity and how a train built on him so easily.
hmm.. worth noting how Tom has been labelled as scum(being bussed) but he's not even close to being in danger of lynch compared to the others.
If you have no read then why are you fighting me so hard on voting him? If you have no read, then he could be scum, right?
Im getting feels about you but its mostly your stance on LW, which isn't conclusive.
I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I've played 3 games with LW so far, and he's always scummy. I voted him in the 1st game with him cuz of his behavior, but he turned out to be town. I've yet to see his scumgame, but I'm sure he would have buds quell the heat by now since attracting this much attention early on won't benefit on the long run. overall, this much attention on a generally scummy player just doesn't feel right.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Orb, Terry seems to be gamely interacting with everyone and evaluating comments. Also, noting that you think getting to 1 BP will be super easy/common. I think LW is likely scum, and maaaaybe Tom. I like Terry and Az so far. If LW is scum, then I'd look at BlueSky. I don't like that DV since he has announced he will betray already, assuming he's not bluffing.
I asked GF specifically because he srs voted me due to my comment about assuming betrayers=scum.
EGMEOY should probably be "IGMEOY = I've got my eye on you".
Orb, why do you like LW? Given that info, why did you vote BlueSky?
@DV: As far as your Betraying people goes, I know what you are doing and I think it's fine, but you need to be careful who you betray. People can ABSOLUTELY die from being betrayed Night 1. If your BP reaches 0 you die. If someone were to start the game with 1 BP, they could die if they Ally and their partner betrays. I play that way as scum because that's the way I play as town.
I have not been ignoring my wagon. Where did you come up with that? I addressed it when it first started happening. I'm a bit concerned that so many people just jumped on it with out actually thinking about it. I'm not fully surprised that you were in that group, but I have reasons to believe you are town.
I mean, yeah if you started with 2 or less BP, sure. But I doubt anyone did.
In the games, everyone started with three BP specifically to avoid dying to one betrayal. Did anyone start with less than three BP? I feel like if we're claming at 1, we should probably claim at 2 as well. There's no way to lose just one BP, so two is as deadly as one.
ok. any scumreads other than LW? he was alrdy the leading train after StinkyJoe. we should be constructive with our time. no read on LW atm, maybe leaning town for the activity and how a train built on him so easily.
hmm.. worth noting how Tom has been labelled as scum(being bussed) but he's not even close to being in danger of lynch compared to the others.
If you have no read then why are you fighting me so hard on voting him? If you have no read, then he could be scum, right?
Im getting feels about you but its mostly your stance on LW, which isn't conclusive.
I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I've played 3 games with LW so far, and he's always scummy. I voted him in the 1st game with him cuz of his behavior, but he turned out to be town. I've yet to see his scumgame, but I'm sure he would have buds quell the heat by now since attracting this much attention early on won't benefit on the long run. overall, this much attention on a generally scummy player just doesn't feel right.
@Osie - I pointed out two people as scum and then voted for one of those people. Even if I hadn't, it's not uncommon for me to pick three at a time and then pursue the most scummy. Why are you asking silly questions in massive spoiler walls?
@Osie - I pointed out two people as scum and then voted for one of those people. Even if I hadn't, it's not uncommon for me to pick three at a time and then pursue the most scummy. Why are you asking silly questions in massive spoiler walls?
to annoy u? silly questions can give good results at times~
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Osie - I pointed out two people as scum and then voted for one of those people. Even if I hadn't, it's not uncommon for me to pick three at a time and then pursue the most scummy. Why are you asking silly questions in massive spoiler walls?
Do you really think its more silly than Tom just voting/zero effort?
I would like to ask u the same question. a small writeup of how u play would be appreciated. I can't read ppl if I have no clue of what they're doing.
Now YOU are asking
that I provide self-meta.
I reject meta.
There is
A good point in
What you request from me.
Tom, Iso, D_V, or Killjoy.
Might know.
I do what I want.
I like how it feels.
I mostly tell truth.
And joke some, forsooth.
defensive? someone was asking that of me, so I asked them to ask someone else. u could've done the same instead of being defensive about it. but ok, got an idea of how u play now.
my playstyle is usually barebones as either alignment. but since I'm in new territory I will refrain till I get the hang of things. not feeling well anyways.
Private Mod Note
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Orb, why do you like LW? Given that info, why did you vote BlueSky?
It's more that I don't have enough of an opinion on LW at the moment to vote them. As for my vote, I don't care for Duskingblacksea's push on Tom; it feels off.
I don't know how I feel about Tom, its Tom. Could be town, could be scum. He is sort of gimmicking right now with no real content. Meh.
Yes I need the three points as fast as possible.
I typically don't focus on Meta much. But with Terry its been like 3 games I've seen him do this. 2 of the games I was his partner and saw it first hand. So, I feel pretty confident about saying that is part of the meta. If he continues on that path it will be pretty obvious soon.
What will be obvious? Because I'm pushing a case on someone I think is scum, you're calling me scum? Should I push a case on an obvious townie to prove I'm town? I'll say this again, just because I bus as scum, it does not mean that I am scum. Your logic makes no sense. Who am I bussing? LW? Tom? who?
Terry don't bull***** me.
You've even said you do this in scum chats. I can go pull it up if you want.
You're missing my point. I'm admitting I bus as scum, but that's because I hunt scum as town and I play scum like I play town. I have meta tells, and hunting scum is not one of them because I hunt scum either way. My town games tend to be more solvey and invested. Please tell me who I am bussing here. This is serious. Who am I bussing?
@Osie - I pointed out two people as scum and then voted for one of those people. Even if I hadn't, it's not uncommon for me to pick three at a time and then pursue the most scummy. Why are you asking silly questions in massive spoiler walls?
Oh. I went back and reread it, sorry. I thought you were shading Killjoy and Mandarin21, and then voting Lastwhisper.
As for silly questions, maybe they aren't as silly as you think that they are?
@Phoenix: I really don't see how you could think, I should think Tom is more likely scum than LW. All of my suspicion on Tom is tone and conjecture. It falls apart if LW is not scum. LW on the other hand straight up trip major scum alarms for me.
wtf why do you look like scum with me
I don't get this. What are you asking? I thought you looked like scum with LW. Phoenix, thinks I should be more confident that you are scum than I am that LW is scum. I think that's preposterous. My reads on LW are based on his play. My reads on you were based on tone and conjecture. Therefore, my reads on LW > than my reads on you.
Okay, seriously that's not what I'm saying. Between you saying "Last whisper and Tom are scummy" and you voting for last whisper, Tom was the only person to post. So if you were going to vote either one of them, it would make sense to have voted Tom or not at all.
Your follow up about just posting as you caught up I could maybe buy as you holding your vote until you made it through everything and were current, but that's not really what it looked like.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
@Osieorb: Why are you making up names for people/editing quotes/generally being difficult to actually read?
defensive? someone was asking that of me, so I asked them to ask someone else. u could've done the same instead of being defensive about it. but ok, got an idea of how u play now.
my playstyle is usually barebones as either alignment. but since I'm in new territory I will refrain till I get the hang of things. not feeling well anyways.
@Phoenix: I really don't see how you could think, I should think Tom is more likely scum than LW. All of my suspicion on Tom is tone and conjecture. It falls apart if LW is not scum. LW on the other hand straight up trip major scum alarms for me.
wtf why do you look like scum with me
I don't get this. What are you asking? I thought you looked like scum with LW. Phoenix, thinks I should be more confident that you are scum than I am that LW is scum. I think that's preposterous. My reads on LW are based on his play. My reads on you were based on tone and conjecture. Therefore, my reads on LW > than my reads on you.
Okay, seriously that's not what I'm saying. Between you saying "Last whisper and Tom are scummy" and you voting for last whisper, Tom was the only person to post. So if you were going to vote either one of them, it would make sense to have voted Tom or not at all.
Your follow up about just posting as you caught up I could maybe buy as you holding your vote until you made it through everything and were current, but that's not really what it looked like.
Well two things. One, I still don't get why you think I would vote the person I was saying looked to be bussing instead of the person they could potentially be bussing that I thought was independently scummy. We could just be two people voting the same scummy person. There is no world where voting Tom makes sense instead of voting LW. I'm sorry if you don't think my vote on LW made sense, but I have spent sufficient time explaining it.
@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
I'm curious about how ppl play in general. could say its my meta. and no, I don't usually read past games, the feel of being a spectator vs a player makes a big difference for me. ppl might lie if they tell u directly about how they play, but that can be deduced as lie or fact over time DURING a game, rather than spectating a past game and use it against them in a current game. ppl tend to change playstyles over time too, and that might be mentioned when asking someone about their meta during a game.
to me, asking someone about their playstyle is the best way to get information.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
defensive? someone was asking that of me, so I asked them to ask someone else. u could've done the same instead of being defensive about it. but ok, got an idea of how u play now.
my playstyle is usually barebones as either alignment. but since I'm in new territory I will refrain till I get the hang of things. not feeling well anyways.
@Phoenix: I really don't see how you could think, I should think Tom is more likely scum than LW. All of my suspicion on Tom is tone and conjecture. It falls apart if LW is not scum. LW on the other hand straight up trip major scum alarms for me.
wtf why do you look like scum with me
I don't get this. What are you asking? I thought you looked like scum with LW. Phoenix, thinks I should be more confident that you are scum than I am that LW is scum. I think that's preposterous. My reads on LW are based on his play. My reads on you were based on tone and conjecture. Therefore, my reads on LW > than my reads on you.
Okay, seriously that's not what I'm saying. Between you saying "Last whisper and Tom are scummy" and you voting for last whisper, Tom was the only person to post. So if you were going to vote either one of them, it would make sense to have voted Tom or not at all.
Your follow up about just posting as you caught up I could maybe buy as you holding your vote until you made it through everything and were current, but that's not really what it looked like.
Well two things. One, I still don't get why you think I would vote the person I was saying looked to be bussing instead of the person they could potentially be bussing that I thought was independently scummy. We could just be two people voting the same scummy person. There is no world where voting Tom makes sense instead of voting LW. I'm sorry if you don't think my vote on LW made sense, but I have spent sufficient time explaining it.
What changed between "LW is scummy" to "vote LW" though?? Were you intentionally holding your vote? I'm not asking "Why didn't you vote Tom?" I'm saying "What about Tom's post made you vote LW?" You literally haven't explained this at all, you just keep pushing me back by saying that voting Tom wouldn't have made sense, and I don't care, that's not my point.
Let me put it in a way that makes it abundantly clear what I'm implying:
How is your vote on Last Whisper anything but an opportunistic jump because someone else started a wagon?
It would benefit the town to load me up with as many BP as possible as quickly as possible.
-
My Axelrod vote was serious but I've since reconsidered. Unvote
I support all pressure on tom and LW. If LW is town, Terry is scum, but I find that outcome improbable.
I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I think I'm mostly fine with D_V, Killjoy, and Az, so far.
Just noting that ISO is setting up a dichotomy here and I don't appreciate it. When people put this down as fact it's often a scum attempt to chain mislynch. EGMEOY ISO.
Yes, how dare I try to solve the game the way that I always do - by identifying who can and can't be scum together.
lockhimup.gif
why is terry scum if lw is town though?
The approach is in line with what I would expect from Terry’s scum play but in a vacuum LW is scummier.
I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I've played 3 games with LW so far, and he's always scummy. I voted him in the 1st game with him cuz of his behavior, but he turned out to be town. I've yet to see his scumgame, but I'm sure he would have buds quell the heat by now since attracting this much attention early on won't benefit on the long run. overall, this much attention on a generally scummy player just doesn't feel right.
1. Who do you think LW’s scumbuddies would be in this game?
2. Do you not feel like people have tried to detract from LW’s wagon since its inception? Because I certainly do.
3. Why do you think that sort of tell would be applicable in a meta you’re unfamiliar with?
@Osie - I pointed out two people as scum and then voted for one of those people. Even if I hadn't, it's not uncommon for me to pick three at a time and then pursue the most scummy. Why are you asking silly questions in massive spoiler walls?
to annoy u? silly questions can give good results at times~
Hi, please don’t answer questions directed at other players. Thanks!
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@osi: Can you please evoke a serious and consistent playstyle so that I can be arsed to read your posts? Thanks!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
I'm curious about how ppl play in general. could say its my meta. and no, I don't usually read past games, the feel of being a spectator vs a player makes a big difference for me. ppl might lie if they tell u directly about how they play, but that can be deduced as lie or fact over time DURING a game, rather than spectating a past game and use it against them in a current game. ppl tend to change playstyles over time too, and that might be mentioned when asking someone about their meta during a game.
to me, asking someone about their playstyle is the best way to get information.
Okay....I guess it just seems unreliable to ask for meta and then use that, rather than actually looking at someone's written meta or just ignore it altogether.
@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
I'm curious about how ppl play in general. could say its my meta. and no, I don't usually read past games, the feel of being a spectator vs a player makes a big difference for me. ppl might lie if they tell u directly about how they play, but that can be deduced as lie or fact over time DURING a game, rather than spectating a past game and use it against them in a current game. ppl tend to change playstyles over time too, and that might be mentioned when asking someone about their meta during a game.
to me, asking someone about their playstyle is the best way to get information.
Okay....I guess it just seems unreliable to ask for meta and then use that, rather than actually looking at someone's written meta or just ignore it altogether.
the uncertainty of information is always present.
gotta admit I'm lazy to backread on old games, so I adapted to asking someone in a current game. understand other ppl prefer backreading an old game tho.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
I'm curious about how ppl play in general. could say its my meta. and no, I don't usually read past games, the feel of being a spectator vs a player makes a big difference for me. ppl might lie if they tell u directly about how they play, but that can be deduced as lie or fact over time DURING a game, rather than spectating a past game and use it against them in a current game. ppl tend to change playstyles over time too, and that might be mentioned when asking someone about their meta during a game.
to me, asking someone about their playstyle is the best way to get information.
Okay....I guess it just seems unreliable to ask for meta and then use that, rather than actually looking at someone's written meta or just ignore it altogether.
the uncertainty of information is always present.
gotta admit I'm lazy to backread on old games, so I adapted to asking someone in a current game. understand other ppl prefer backreading an old game tho.
Why not just not use any meta then? I'm trying understand how you think this is beneficial.
I'm curious about bluesky - why do you think the LW wagon is bunk? Why do you think tom has been scummier than LW?
I've played 3 games with LW so far, and he's always scummy. I voted him in the 1st game with him cuz of his behavior, but he turned out to be town. I've yet to see his scumgame, but I'm sure he would have buds quell the heat by now since attracting this much attention early on won't benefit on the long run. overall, this much attention on a generally scummy player just doesn't feel right.
1. Who do you think LW’s scumbuddies would be in this game?
2. Do you not feel like people have tried to detract from LW’s wagon since its inception? Because I certainly do.
3. Why do you think that sort of tell would be applicable in a meta you’re unfamiliar with?
1. I don't see a reason to scumread LW in the first place, so why are u asking me for possible scumbuds?? mudslinging?
2. who tried to detract from the LW wagon? doesn't look like it with the amount of votes it has atm.
3. easy trains on anyone doesn't look good either way u look at it. it's applicable and valid.
@Osie - I pointed out two people as scum and then voted for one of those people. Even if I hadn't, it's not uncommon for me to pick three at a time and then pursue the most scummy. Why are you asking silly questions in massive spoiler walls?
to annoy u? silly questions can give good results at times~
Hi, please don’t answer questions directed at other players. Thanks!
there's nothing wrong with that, is there? guess I'll just sit here and wait for questions directed at me then, as per request.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I don't get this. What are you asking? I thought you looked like scum with LW. Phoenix, thinks I should be more confident that you are scum than I am that LW is scum. I think that's preposterous. My reads on LW are based on his play. My reads on you were based on tone and conjecture. Therefore, my reads on LW > than my reads on you.
Okay, seriously that's not what I'm saying. Between you saying "Last whisper and Tom are scummy" and you voting for last whisper, Tom was the only person to post. So if you were going to vote either one of them, it would make sense to have voted Tom or not at all.
Your follow up about just posting as you caught up I could maybe buy as you holding your vote until you made it through everything and were current, but that's not really what it looked like.
Well two things. One, I still don't get why you think I would vote the person I was saying looked to be bussing instead of the person they could potentially be bussing that I thought was independently scummy. We could just be two people voting the same scummy person. There is no world where voting Tom makes sense instead of voting LW. I'm sorry if you don't think my vote on LW made sense, but I have spent sufficient time explaining it.
What changed between "LW is scummy" to "vote LW" though?? Were you intentionally holding your vote? I'm not asking "Why didn't you vote Tom?" I'm saying "What about Tom's post made you vote LW?" You literally haven't explained this at all, you just keep pushing me back by saying that voting Tom wouldn't have made sense, and I don't care, that's not my point.
Let me put it in a way that makes it abundantly clear what I'm implying:
How is your vote on Last Whisper anything but an opportunistic jump because someone else started a wagon?
I've also explained this several times and am tired of beating a dead horse about it. I quoted Tom because he was starting an early day 1 train, which is healthy for the game state. There is value in that. He was starting it on someone I already felt like was being scummy, so I agreed and voted LW.
Because I agreed with him voting LW, does NOT mean that I will write Tom off as scum. It seemed a little bit suspicious because, as other people have also pointed out, he's been playing a bit sporadically, especially with his votes, which is why I speculated that he may be scum with LW and when LW swooped in and responded a defense to a comment directed directly at Tom, it made even more sense. Tom is an experienced mafia player, but I'm still not quite ready to put rookie mistakes like defending a scum buddy past LW's experience level.
Please go through this procedure with me and compare the reasoning of my vote on LW to tom's reasoning:
Yep, I'm on board especially because this feels like a Tom bus.
VOTE: Last Whisper
it seems your #53 has more of a sarcastic tone, yet u stilled voted me? interesting vote RealstinkyJoe and i understand why azreal is voting me, but what about you?
You're OMGUS definitely makes me feel better about my vote on you, but let me explain this to everyone who is voting me.
In #51, Last Whisper's Response to Azrael's pressure/vote (which clearly LW couldn't tell if Azrael was serious or not):
my last words wont come for a while, if they even ever do... I dont expect this train will go far. I was always told i wasnt readable... tsk, time to throw in the towel
It starts off over defensive, and arrogant, but even within the same posts it's like LW realizes it and then tries to right the ship by adding in a sarcastic throw in the towel comment in the end. This one post just ran the whole gambit of scum emotions. It's a dead serious vote.
In post #55 I got a whiff of Tom's Scum-Confidence (that I witnessed first hand with him last game) and my comment:
Please tell me which player seems to be voting "opportunistically" and which player seems to have put constructive thought into the reasoning of their vote?
@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
I'm curious about how ppl play in general. could say its my meta. and no, I don't usually read past games, the feel of being a spectator vs a player makes a big difference for me. ppl might lie if they tell u directly about how they play, but that can be deduced as lie or fact over time DURING a game, rather than spectating a past game and use it against them in a current game. ppl tend to change playstyles over time too, and that might be mentioned when asking someone about their meta during a game.
to me, asking someone about their playstyle is the best way to get information.
Okay....I guess it just seems unreliable to ask for meta and then use that, rather than actually looking at someone's written meta or just ignore it altogether.
the uncertainty of information is always present.
gotta admit I'm lazy to backread on old games, so I adapted to asking someone in a current game. understand other ppl prefer backreading an old game tho.
Why not just not use any meta then? I'm trying understand how you think this is beneficial.
I want to know how someone plays so I can work around it - this game is about teamwork afterall. whether I look at a past game or ask directly shouldn't matter, cuz I've adapted to asking directly. (or rather, I'm bad at reading as a spectator. different feel)
the end benefit is to know how someone plays to avoid any misunderstandings. it is also a good question, why not use it? I never intended to get concrete answers out of meta questions, since they tend to change to suit the moment.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Because if he is scum, he will last forever and win this quirky game.
Btw, if you betray I am going to assume you are scum unless you note the reasons publicly, ahead of time. I will be paying attention.
Even if this is stated ahead of times, there is no gunrantee it will make a difference. On top of all of that we have no clue who or what benefits some people may get from betraying so to assume people who betray are scum is odd. Town can do scummy things its not some sort of new concept. I just find it really odd for someone to state this.
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Bah [b]Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry[/b]. Stupid mobile bold tags.
[b]@Llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllngr:[/b] is that for serious? Are you really just going to assume everyone who betrays you has no town reason for doing so?
I'm laughing at D_V's post 11 because the gif looks like Meg infinitely giving his approval.
May i ask why your voting terry in this post? Seems like u should be voting LnG, unless of course that terry vote is just rng which then prob doesnt matter. Still little curious though.
Preemptive role fishing. And justifying future votes for poor reasons.
Your assuming we would all vote for those reasons are you not? I dont see this as role fishing, if anyone was role fishing it was the person that stated that stated roles may or may not be effected by the AB game decision which I believe on page 1 Terry was the first too mention it, unless I missed another post mentioning it.
Preemptive role fishing. And justifying future votes for poor reasons.
he's probably that guy that tells you not to betray so that he can garner a few extra BP early on, and ya it's a very simplistic way of justifying a vote.
I don't think thats true mainly because if he hits betray no one will follow his sugegstion at that point and it will just turn into mass chaos. I already know how I am going to play the AB game, which will change depending on the results of the first game.
Please don't let this be a dueling meme game. I'll lose my mind.
I will:
[b]Vote: Tomsloger[/b]
for being essentially unreadable. One less thing to worry about, etc. etc.
Looking forward to a good game.
This isn't an rvs vote right, because if so this vote is quite over justified to be random. Also this vote screams scum, its one thing to vote to pressure someone but seems like you just want to get rid of said person for being unreadable plus hard to deal with in the late game.
Bah [b]Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry[/b]. Stupid mobile bold tags.
[b]@Llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllngr:[/b] is that for serious? Are you really just going to assume everyone who betrays you has no town reason for doing so?
I'm laughing at D_V's post 11 because the gif looks like Meg infinitely giving his approval.
he's probably that guy that tells you not to betray so that he can garner a few extra BP early on, and ya it's a very simplistic way of justifying a vote.
Please don't let this be a dueling meme game. I'll lose my mind.
I will:
[b]Vote: Tomsloger[/b]
for being essentially unreadable. One less thing to worry about, etc. etc.
Looking forward to a good game.
Meh. Undecided.
In other news, I'd like to propose that no one is allowed to betray except by advance agreement/clearance by the town. Partly because if anyone betrays me, I'm probably insta-dead. Which seems like a thing where if someone would try to do that to me, they shouldn't have an excuse, and I'm likely not the only one. Thoughts?
Also, be sure to volunteer enough role info while discussing the above that the scum can figure out sensitive role info and identify vulnerable targets and town power roles, ktxhbye.
[b]Vote Last Whisper[/b]. Iso, care to confirm? KJ read also?
If betrayal will lead to your death just say it, but if you were to get betrayed while also still living im pretty sure that just make you scum so that statement is risky for you to make. How can scum be confirmed in 1-2 posts? If anyone's role fishing here it seems to be you, I dont find a need to discuss roles this early into the game yet.
My role can safely be betrayed a limited number of times without me getting too worried, I'll probably make a list of people I'm okay with betraying me should they get paired against me.
Was it necc to reveal this information? It quite beneficial for scum knowing this.
At Az, I will assume that in this game there will be roles like yours that can die to betrayal and there are roles that would also greatly benefit from Betrayals (being on the betraying end I mean). I can imagine it would have been a monumental task to balance this all, but I think it's fair to assume that if you will die to someone betraying you Night 1, it's something you should openly declare right off the bat. After that, you should be safe unless someone is trying to kill you and really wants to get Lynched the next day. No one should die because they get betrayed, there is no excuse for it. I think if anyone is at 1BP they should claim it. The AB list is public, I'm assuming, but should get clarification. Even if it's not public, it probably should be information we openly share.
[b]@MOD:[/b] Are the AB matchups publicly displayed?
One thhing that i don't think is known is how much AB points an ability may cost, which if some cost more than 1 then betrayal would be needed for them to have an upkeep on their ability use. The fact that rules state you cant use an ability if it will kill you leads me to believe that no one can kill themselves willingly cause if so that information prob would have been hidden. I Wont assume anythinng this early into the game, Ill only assume what i know is confirmed by my ability at this point.
So i am going to go ahead an skip RVS
[b]Vote Lngrrr[/b] Don't mean to follow GR vote, but your intentions are more scummy stating that than they are town. Mostly its just a selfish act to assume the latter espically in a game all about betrayal which I mean quite literally if you've actually played zero escape like me.
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Be grateful, always."
read the 1st post again
I think this is 48h Day phases
or I missed smthing .-.
Be grateful, always."
2wks is probably in the main rules
either way lol
Be grateful, always."
Bring it.
@Tom
What gives?
I wake up and we're already out of RVS... damn.
HELLO THERE! I don't know you, though I've seen you when reading an old game here and there. How are things going?
You say that, but the ***** posting king is in this game.
NO BRAKES!
Everyone should know everyone else's alignments by post #6 of the thread, right?
I agree that that bold tag is very annoying.
Some people have "that magic technique," though. And yes, I do like to sway to marimba rhythms.
I just assume you're on the winning team…
Why did you point out two people as scum and then vote someone different?
Also, is this fearmongering, serious, or both?
And that's why you use noparse tags when quoting them!
Azrael for GOAT.
Does it, though?
@Bur: That bunny gif will haunt my nightmares to the end of time. Thanks.
Are you sure you need those three points that fast and can't just get it out of allying three times?
IMO, meta should never be the underlining reason for voting someone... then again I've never played on a faster site, so... YMMV.
Maybe it's just hard to resist Tom's handsome, rugged, mysterious, dashing figure...
At that point, aren't you basically just making a readlist? That's not outside of the realm of normal reasonable actions; I'm not sure why we're making a big deal about it.
I don't know if I would go that far... :shrugs:
Why?
It's going to be super easy/common to get to 1 BP, so that seems potentially a little hasty to claim no matter what... Maybe, though.
"based on your play, not"
Hey, I resemble that remark!
You know better than that, Terry.
Stop it.
HI! :hello:
Out of Lastwhisper, Azrael, RSJT, and Tom, how many scum do you think there are there, who do you think they are, and why?
(Heck, anybody who can do so should answer the above question.)
Why exactly? Just because you think Tom was bussing LW? Do you think Tom is that predictable?
I wouldn't put it past Azrael to pocket a scumbuddy… Heck, I wouldn't put it past Azrael to pocket anybody. Maybe I should actually learn how to read Azrael, instead of just assuming that all he does as either alignment is pocket people, poke at people, and participate promisingly, lol.
What do you not like about his approach to the game?
Why are you asking Kumquat21 specifically?
Are you sure he isn't more of a Jester?
As I said to D_V earlier in this post, you should stop it, too. That said, to entertain this line of thinking for just a tiny bit, that would strictly means that there are no roles that can lose a player 2 BP prior to the AB game, which seems like a bit of a stretch.
I was going to say that this seems rather overly focused on meta, then I remembered to who I was talking ( ) and noticed the bit about ignoring wagons. What do you think of Tom this game outside of his interactions with Terry?
That's a fantastic phrase. I might steal this in the future.
New here, but experienced at mafia in general?
To be fair, your meta is rather expansive, so Terry's guess is as good as any on that one.
Damnit, Terry. Also, according to setup, everyone starts the game with 3 BP. Unless you're claiming a character that starts with 1 BP this early for no clear reason.
Were they not thinking about it? Were they noting scumtells in your posts? Or was it something more sinister?
That's not very nice. Also, D_V's vote on you could certainly have been thought out. He also describes his thoughts on you in #114, 15 minutes before you made this post.
So you want to have your cake and eat it too?
Eww.
Iso confirmed Flying Pumpkin.
Explain? Just because of the double wagon?
They are the top two wagons… Also, if you have a problem with Iso, put your money where your mouth is and vote him.
Also, what does "EGMEOY" mean? "Especially Given My Experience Of You?" "Eventually Garam Masala Elegantly Observes Yodeling?"
Confidence confidence confidence confidence
Lastwhisper seems okay to me at the moment.
Maybe it's because of arrogant-sounding posts like this one?
Also, you've rubbed people here, myself included, the wrong way ( ) as scum before, too.
Reverse psychology?
~~~~
Vote: Dawningbluesky for raisins, until I have a more concrete readlist.
That's what the names are for... Also, that's two.
I don't know how I feel about Tom, its Tom. Could be town, could be scum. He is sort of gimmicking right now with no real content. Meh.
Yes I need the three points as fast as possible.
I typically don't focus on Meta much. But with Terry its been like 3 games I've seen him do this. 2 of the games I was his partner and saw it first hand. So, I feel pretty confident about saying that is part of the meta. If he continues on that path it will be pretty obvious soon.
Terry don't bull***** me.
You've even said you do this in scum chats. I can go pull it up if you want.
Maybe you'll see, maybe you won't...
I would hope so. :smile:
I suppose. I didn't have any difficulty doing it so far, exactly.
maybe Tom, I can't make out what he's trying to do. tho an explanation of his playstyle would help clear things up, and he's not gonna share it. that's the most I got. Azrael hasn't gotten much heat for the random accusations he's been making, compared to the others, so that is smthing I might look into as well.
why thank you~ I tend to use that alot
this would be my 20th game, and I've only played the forum variant, up to date. as for experience...I think Shinichi or Grapefruit can vouch for it. better than me and self-meta, right?
I would like to ask u the same question. a small writeup of how u play would be appreciated. I can't read ppl if I have no clue of what they're doing.
glad to see we agree
Be grateful, always."
In the games, everyone started with three BP specifically to avoid dying to one betrayal.
Did anyone start with less than three BP? I feel like if we're claming at 1, we should probably claim at 2 as well. There's no way to lose just one BP, so two is as deadly as one.
If you have no read then why are you fighting me so hard on voting him? If you have no read, then he could be scum, right?
Im getting feels about you but its mostly your stance on LW, which isn't conclusive.
This... is accurate.
@Iso Draw me a line between LW town and Terry scum? Not seeing it.
Hm.
Link me one or two of his town games.
I'm not reading Osie's spoiler wall.
Be grateful, always."
I asked GF specifically because he srs voted me due to my comment about assuming betrayers=scum.
EGMEOY should probably be "IGMEOY = I've got my eye on you".
Orb, why do you like LW? Given that info, why did you vote BlueSky?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I have more than 3 BP. I'm good.
it seems u aren't seeing what I'm seeing in LW. ok.
links to his games(and I'm in them as a bonus lol):
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1653122
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1658165
Be grateful, always."
Why??
Be grateful, always."
Now YOU are asking
that I provide self-meta.
I reject meta.
There is
A good point in
What you request from me.
Tom, Iso, D_V, or Killjoy.
Might know.
I do what I want.
I like how it feels.
I mostly tell truth.
And joke some, forsooth.
Do you really think its more silly than Tom just voting/zero effort?
Seems to be actively commenting at least.
my playstyle is usually barebones as either alignment. but since I'm in new territory I will refrain till I get the hang of things. not feeling well anyways.
Be grateful, always."
To be frank (or someone else), my only response (Re: 111) to you (Aww, only one?) wasn't a question (though part of it might be of note).
It's more that I don't have enough of an opinion on LW at the moment to vote them. As for my vote, I don't care for Duskingblacksea's push on Tom; it feels off.
Oh. I went back and reread it, sorry. I thought you were shading Killjoy and Mandarin21, and then voting Lastwhisper.
As for silly questions, maybe they aren't as silly as you think that they are?
Your follow up about just posting as you caught up I could maybe buy as you holding your vote until you made it through everything and were current, but that's not really what it looked like.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
@Osieorb: Why are you making up names for people/editing quotes/generally being difficult to actually read?
@lngrrrrr: what do you like about Terry?
HEY!
Why not?
Sorry.
to me, asking someone about their playstyle is the best way to get information.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Let me put it in a way that makes it abundantly clear what I'm implying:
How is your vote on Last Whisper anything but an opportunistic jump because someone else started a wagon?
Be grateful, always."
The approach is in line with what I would expect from Terry’s scum play but in a vacuum LW is scummier.
1. Who do you think LW’s scumbuddies would be in this game?
2. Do you not feel like people have tried to detract from LW’s wagon since its inception? Because I certainly do.
3. Why do you think that sort of tell would be applicable in a meta you’re unfamiliar with?
Hi, please don’t answer questions directed at other players. Thanks!
-
@osi: Can you please evoke a serious and consistent playstyle so that I can be arsed to read your posts? Thanks!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
gotta admit I'm lazy to backread on old games, so I adapted to asking someone in a current game. understand other ppl prefer backreading an old game tho.
Be grateful, always."
2. who tried to detract from the LW wagon? doesn't look like it with the amount of votes it has atm.
3. easy trains on anyone doesn't look good either way u look at it. it's applicable and valid.
there's nothing wrong with that, is there? guess I'll just sit here and wait for questions directed at me then, as per request.
Be grateful, always."
Because I agreed with him voting LW, does NOT mean that I will write Tom off as scum. It seemed a little bit suspicious because, as other people have also pointed out, he's been playing a bit sporadically, especially with his votes, which is why I speculated that he may be scum with LW and when LW swooped in and responded a defense to a comment directed directly at Tom, it made even more sense. Tom is an experienced mafia player, but I'm still not quite ready to put rookie mistakes like defending a scum buddy past LW's experience level.
Please go through this procedure with me and compare the reasoning of my vote on LW to tom's reasoning:
the end benefit is to know how someone plays to avoid any misunderstandings. it is also a good question, why not use it? I never intended to get concrete answers out of meta questions, since they tend to change to suit the moment.
Be grateful, always."
Even if this is stated ahead of times, there is no gunrantee it will make a difference. On top of all of that we have no clue who or what benefits some people may get from betraying so to assume people who betray are scum is odd. Town can do scummy things its not some sort of new concept. I just find it really odd for someone to state this.
----
May i ask why your voting terry in this post? Seems like u should be voting LnG, unless of course that terry vote is just rng which then prob doesnt matter. Still little curious though.
----
Would have been nice if u stated the reasons in this post instead of making a 2nd post for that.
----
Your assuming we would all vote for those reasons are you not? I dont see this as role fishing, if anyone was role fishing it was the person that stated that stated roles may or may not be effected by the AB game decision which I believe on page 1 Terry was the first too mention it, unless I missed another post mentioning it.
---
I don't think thats true mainly because if he hits betray no one will follow his sugegstion at that point and it will just turn into mass chaos. I already know how I am going to play the AB game, which will change depending on the results of the first game.
-----
This isn't an rvs vote right, because if so this vote is quite over justified to be random. Also this vote screams scum, its one thing to vote to pressure someone but seems like you just want to get rid of said person for being unreadable plus hard to deal with in the late game.
----
Have you posted a reason anywhere? Or is this just some random rvs bs?
---
If betrayal will lead to your death just say it, but if you were to get betrayed while also still living im pretty sure that just make you scum so that statement is risky for you to make. How can scum be confirmed in 1-2 posts? If anyone's role fishing here it seems to be you, I dont find a need to discuss roles this early into the game yet.
----
What was the point of unvoting so fast?
----
Was it necc to reveal this information? It quite beneficial for scum knowing this.
----
One thhing that i don't think is known is how much AB points an ability may cost, which if some cost more than 1 then betrayal would be needed for them to have an upkeep on their ability use. The fact that rules state you cant use an ability if it will kill you leads me to believe that no one can kill themselves willingly cause if so that information prob would have been hidden. I Wont assume anythinng this early into the game, Ill only assume what i know is confirmed by my ability at this point.
So i am going to go ahead an skip RVS
[b]Vote Lngrrr[/b] Don't mean to follow GR vote, but your intentions are more scummy stating that than they are town. Mostly its just a selfish act to assume the latter espically in a game all about betrayal which I mean quite literally if you've actually played zero escape like me.