2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Never got to RVS so Vote: KamikazeArchon for sharing a part of my name!
Unvote
First off, we're not lynching Az, unless there is damn solid reasoning to do so. "Lol Neutral" is not a solid reason. Especially since Rodemy has confirmed the existence of a neutral in this game. "But who says Rodemy is town?" I do. I've just finished a game with scum Rod and there is a MASSIVE difference in tone/behaviour compared. I might be wrong (Lord knows I have been often enough in the past) but for now I see no reason to doubt his claim.
Secondly, @Az, two questions:
1) How would you compare your approach here to the approach you took in Mind Screw?
2) Why Rodemy?
Third, everyone should go and read the 17 posts made by Archmage Eternal. He has done nothing constructive in this game: Day 1
Post 1 - Accuses KA of fear mongering. Never goes further into this. Also mentions a flaw in KA's reasoning but never points out what it is. Confusing reponse to Shadow voting Az and not wanting a neutral to survive past day 1.
Post 2 - Responds to Vezok voting for Az, then votes for Rodemy for voting for Az with a one word explanation: "Horrible".
Post 3 - Asks Terry about Grapefruit. Never follows up on this.
Post 4 - Filler
Post 5 - Tells Vezok to forget Az and look elsewhere. That is all.
Post 6 - Asks Az to vote for Rodemy, also willing to vote for Vezok.
Post 7 - Catchup promise after 3 days absent. Will give benefit of doubt though, came down with flu.
Post 8 - Basic explanation to Tom about whyvote is on Rodemy. Wonders why Rod not in claim range yet.
Post 9 - Quotes DBS and shades them for voting for him, when he was bottom of DBS townlean pile. DBS explains the vote in the quoted posts though. First time DBS is mentioned at all by AE, never engaged with them while they were both voting for Rod.
Post 10 - Asks DBS a question about something they said about AE/Rod, never follows up on this despite DBS responding to the question. Asks if DBS thinks Rod is scum, even though DBS had made several posts about Rod and had him at the bottom of their T/S list.
Post 11 - Questions Kazin's townread of him. Responds to Rodemy's argument with Vezok with a flawed statement
Post 12 - Moves vote from Rodemy to DBS to join wagon, expresses townread of tom as reason. Quotes a votecount instead of tom's reasoning for voting there. Fifth on the wagon, requires eight to lynch. No further posts on day 1, DBS is lynch. Day 2
Post 13 - Speculates DBS(dead) and Rhand(dead) roles, hints at Rhand being the NK for soft counterclaiming DBS. Accuses Kazin of fear mongering. Asks about Kazin's role despite the answer being right there in the quoted post.
Post 14 - Quotes two posts of Rhand's. The first is Rhand wanting to look into the same players that Terry does (Nancy/Nobue/Vezok) and the second is Rhand saying he believes DBS's claim. Inexplicably cuts out the part of the quote that gives it context though. Asks general question about number of Town/Scum/Neutrals. Rodemy had claimed census role by this point.
Post15 - "Don't lynch Az because Neutral"
Post 16 - Admits to having missed Rodemy's post about the faction numbers, but asks if it's speculation instead of going back to read the posts himself.
Post 17 - Hints at PR by asking Az to target him with soul-steal, "should have thought of this Day 1"
So not only have they done nothing remotely resembling scumhunting, but every vote they have made or opinion expressed on a player has been setup in such a way as to be able to say, "Oh but X player was also saying this..." Apart from the initial Rodemy vote that was never really delved into.
And I almost started crying. Accidentally closed the tab on my phone as I finished the PbPA but before I added the last paragraph and vote. Thought I'd lost it all
@shadow
you are welcome to go back to where I talked about it yesterday. I have nothing new.
@dota
I appreciate a new wind blowing in. And he could totally be scum. But what do you think of anyone else?
Did you read the whole game or just archmage iso?
I can answer that, he claimed the flying dutchman in his first post.
@Nancy coming back with a naked vote isn't exactly inspiring. Why shadow?
Why are you answering other peoples questions?
Because this was a matter of record as opposed to intent. It would be like if someone asked you if anyone had pushed you and I answered DBS had. I know answering questions is a no no, but in that case it's a thing that is on the record in Az's first post.
For those flavor gaming (as if that was a good idea in the first place): The Flying Dutchman is not Davy Jones. In POTC, it was Davy Jones' *ship*.
I don't see Az pulling the Kraken out and doing this claim. I think whoever is associated with the Kraken is happy to use Az's existence as cover, but I think Az is the wrong place to be looking today.
Hiding flips isn't pro-neutral. It's only pro-scum.
And AZ at this point is probably just neutral (or scum with rodemy, who seems town to me)
Idk if the kraken is related to the lack of flips. But it's the biggest worry for me rather than the kraken, and I'm hoping that there's someone to lynch to make it stop.
And if az is scum he's probably not that person based on claim. I think?
This post did nothing for me or anyone. Lynch scummy people. Technically that's not AZ.
The azrael-shaped iceberg still seems far enough away. We gonna crash into it on night 2? Seems unlikely to me.
He's probably lying about the exact shape. It's pretty common knowledge that 90% of an iceberg is below the surface. God this metaphor is perfect...
But with rodemy confirming multiple parts of his role, there is a neutral that's stealing souls. I doubt the neutral would ever be able to win faster than he could try to side with the scumteam at 3-1-4 on day 4 (or the scumteam could lynch him ftw).
So it seems like that's the latest we could deal with it. I could see an argument for lynching him day 3 before he even gets a chance to choose a side.
And if he's scum rather than neutral, rodemy is all but lock his partner. And we can chain that before lylo.
And if there's town killpower out there somewhere, it's ~always used on him.
Also if there's a neutral out there that isn't AZ you have a pretty dope bargaining chip to make us let you achieve a wincon because claiming it now outs one or both of az/rodemy.
Technically the claim would put you in a trichotomy that always contains [1-2 neutral, 1-2 scum, 0-1 town] but pretty much a garauntee you outlive the other 2
But frankly I'm tired of feeling held hostage by any neutral.
I'm tired of watching MTGS let claims like this stand. Lets just get this out of the way now instead of panicking when the bodies hit the floor.
The reason claims like this stand is because our designers make creative roles; it’s a double edged sword in that we can have really unique and interesting setups but also have lots of room for scum to invent fake roles.
I understand not wanting to be stuck with Az being deadweight or worse later in the game, but do you truly believe his claim is a lie?
But frankly I'm tired of feeling held hostage by any neutral.
I'm tired of watching MTGS let claims like this stand. Lets just get this out of the way now instead of panicking when the bodies hit the floor.
The reason claims like this stand is because our designers make creative roles; it’s a double edged sword in that we can have really unique and interesting setups but also have lots of room for scum to invent fake roles.
I understand not wanting to be stuck with Az being deadweight or worse later in the game, but do you truly believe his claim is a lie?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Never got to RVS so Vote: KamikazeArchon for sharing a part of my name!
Unvote
First off, we're not lynching Az, unless there is damn solid reasoning to do so. "Lol Neutral" is not a solid reason. Especially since Rodemy has confirmed the existence of a neutral in this game. "But who says Rodemy is town?" I do. I've just finished a game with scum Rod and there is a MASSIVE difference in tone/behaviour compared. I might be wrong (Lord knows I have been often enough in the past) but for now I see no reason to doubt his claim.
Secondly, @Az, two questions:
1) How would you compare your approach here to the approach you took in Mind Screw?
2) Why Rodemy?
Third, everyone should go and read the 17 posts made by Archmage Eternal. He has done nothing constructive in this game: Day 1
Post 1 - Accuses KA of fear mongering. Never goes further into this. Also mentions a flaw in KA's reasoning but never points out what it is. Confusing reponse to Shadow voting Az and not wanting a neutral to survive past day 1.
Post 2 - Responds to Vezok voting for Az, then votes for Rodemy for voting for Az with a one word explanation: "Horrible".
Post 3 - Asks Terry about Grapefruit. Never follows up on this.
Post 4 - Filler
Post 5 - Tells Vezok to forget Az and look elsewhere. That is all.
Post 6 - Asks Az to vote for Rodemy, also willing to vote for Vezok.
Post 7 - Catchup promise after 3 days absent. Will give benefit of doubt though, came down with flu.
Post 8 - Basic explanation to Tom about whyvote is on Rodemy. Wonders why Rod not in claim range yet.
Post 9 - Quotes DBS and shades them for voting for him, when he was bottom of DBS townlean pile. DBS explains the vote in the quoted posts though. First time DBS is mentioned at all by AE, never engaged with them while they were both voting for Rod.
Post 10 - Asks DBS a question about something they said about AE/Rod, never follows up on this despite DBS responding to the question. Asks if DBS thinks Rod is scum, even though DBS had made several posts about Rod and had him at the bottom of their T/S list.
Post 11 - Questions Kazin's townread of him. Responds to Rodemy's argument with Vezok with a flawed statement
Post 12 - Moves vote from Rodemy to DBS to join wagon, expresses townread of tom as reason. Quotes a votecount instead of tom's reasoning for voting there. Fifth on the wagon, requires eight to lynch. No further posts on day 1, DBS is lynch. Day 2
Post 13 - Speculates DBS(dead) and Rhand(dead) roles, hints at Rhand being the NK for soft counterclaiming DBS. Accuses Kazin of fear mongering. Asks about Kazin's role despite the answer being right there in the quoted post.
Post 14 - Quotes two posts of Rhand's. The first is Rhand wanting to look into the same players that Terry does (Nancy/Nobue/Vezok) and the second is Rhand saying he believes DBS's claim. Inexplicably cuts out the part of the quote that gives it context though. Asks general question about number of Town/Scum/Neutrals. Rodemy had claimed census role by this point.
Post15 - "Don't lynch Az because Neutral"
Post 16 - Admits to having missed Rodemy's post about the faction numbers, but asks if it's speculation instead of going back to read the posts himself.
Post 17 - Hints at PR by asking Az to target him with soul-steal, "should have thought of this Day 1"
So not only have they done nothing remotely resembling scumhunting, but every vote they have made or opinion expressed on a player has been setup in such a way as to be able to say, "Oh but X player was also saying this..." Apart from the initial Rodemy vote that was never really delved into.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Welcome to the Ship.. Now you just posted a case on AME based on the observation that he did nothing in his 17 posts. Well my friend, Nancy Drew did less than that. And why are we not lynching Az? He does nothing to help our wincon and if anything he makes us lose.
@Terry: Same question to you as to AE, do you think the argument that Nancy posted very little actually holds water as a counter to Dota’s point on AE?
@Terry: Same question to you as to AE, do you think the argument that Nancy posted very little actually holds water as a counter to Dota’s point on AE?
Well I think I'm so biased against the Nancy Drew slot that when Dota comes in and picks out the lowest hanging fruit and tries to push a case on him it makes my eyes kind of glaze over. It literally looked like Dota came in and picked the person with the next fewest posts and tried to do a PbP analysis to look busy. I'll definitely re-read AME, but my reaction to Dota was:
Hiding flips isn't pro-neutral. It's only pro-scum.
And AZ at this point is probably just neutral (or scum with rodemy, who seems town to me)
Idk if the kraken is related to the lack of flips. But it's the biggest worry for me rather than the kraken, and I'm hoping that there's someone to lynch to make it stop.
And if az is scum he's probably not that person based on claim. I think?
This post did nothing for me or anyone. Lynch scummy people. Technically that's not AZ.
.. iso made it pretty clear that it's the kraken that is preventing the flips. You aren't that dumb, tom.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Hiding flips isn't pro-neutral. It's only pro-scum.
And AZ at this point is probably just neutral (or scum with rodemy, who seems town to me)
Idk if the kraken is related to the lack of flips. But it's the biggest worry for me rather than the kraken, and I'm hoping that there's someone to lynch to make it stop.
And if az is scum he's probably not that person based on claim. I think?
This post did nothing for me or anyone. Lynch scummy people. Technically that's not AZ.
.. iso made it pretty clear that it's the kraken that is preventing the flips. You aren't that dumb, tom.
Sorry, it was my impression that the Kraken messed with the targeting not the flips. Where did ISO say it had to do with the flips?
1. I dislike diving into a one-player analysis here. Natural town action seems to be giving overall thoughts on the game. If town!DoTA did a full read of the game to get this, why no similarly extensive analysis of anyone else? If he didn't read the whole game, why single out AE?
Conversely, is there scum motivation for such an analysis? Yes. Scumchat could be suggesting an AE push specifically, or more generally "push another player" to deflect. Scum!DoTA would read the scumchat at a higher priority than the thread itself.
2. The analysis itself. Most of it is not actually analysis. It is simply describing what someone did. I don't know if there's a term for this - but it gives the appearance of being a detailed analysis while not actually having thought or reasoning put into it.
vote DoTArchon
Request to replace "Nancy" with DOTA in votecounts.
@Terry: Same question to you as to AE, do you think the argument that Nancy posted very little actually holds water as a counter to Dota’s point on AE?
Well I think I'm so biased against the Nancy Drew slot that when Dota comes in and picks out the lowest hanging fruit and tries to push a case on him it makes my eyes kind of glaze over. It literally looked like Dota came in and picked the person with the next fewest posts and tried to do a PbP analysis to look busy. I'll definitely re-read AME, but my reaction to Dota was:
As someone who was defending the slot I'll just say mine was the same.
I fully admit I was probabally wrong on Nancy Drew after seeing that post by dota.
The first is that we should be finding specifically the Kraken source and taking it out.
The second is that the Kraken being permanent short of lynches/kills may be overpowered, especially combined with what appears to be a targeting randomizer. It is quite possible that the Kraken has a built-in finite duration.
I think I should mention I'm currently using "kraken" and "thing hiding alignment flips" interchangeably; I suppose it's possible they're separate but that seems at least somewhat unlikely.
Fortunately, no matter what, we can assume that the source of the Kraken is scum, so normal scumhunting can work. It's just, effectively, an extended D1.
I remain happy with a D_V lynch but am willing to wait until more people come around on that. Obviously my reasoning wasn't convincing enough in D1 and I don't have more to add, so I'm not going to waste my time.
The first is that we should be finding specifically the Kraken source and taking it out.
The second is that the Kraken being permanent short of lynches/kills may be overpowered, especially combined with what appears to be a targeting randomizer. It is quite possible that the Kraken has a built-in finite duration.
I think I should mention I'm currently using "kraken" and "thing hiding alignment flips" interchangeably; I suppose it's possible they're separate but that seems at least somewhat unlikely.
Fortunately, no matter what, we can assume that the source of the Kraken is scum, so normal scumhunting can work. It's just, effectively, an extended D1.
I remain happy with a D_V lynch but am willing to wait until more people come around on that. Obviously my reasoning wasn't convincing enough in D1 and I don't have more to add, so I'm not going to waste my time.
The final bit of this especially. I'm waiting to see how D_V handles the Day 2 and what things come about from it. I've been trying to hold a more objective read on others, but my read on him hasn't changed in the least as of yet. But with no new evidence to add, it feels moot to push on that button. The Az threat is one that continually becomes more of a threat... and sometimes the problem of the "iceberg" on the horizon is that if you don't correct early, you hit it.... What do they say about icebergs? You only see 10% of them? So Tom's analogy of him being an iceberg is apt in my opinion... He's the kind of role that if it's not dealt with early, it becomes very hard to deal with later... That said, DoTa has been... well... I thought the post was insightful originally, and got me focusing on someone who I hadn't paid a -ton- of attention to... and got me looking, but I could see where others are coming from on the points and how he might have gotten there.
@DoTArchon: Care to give a bit more in depth reads on others?
Well I was sort waiting for him to keep going but everyone stepping all over that and telling him exactly what he needs to say...
Dota blew in here trying to cause damage. It's not confused town working in. There's no "wtf iso no flips" there's no look at how his slot's been treated which is, like, where you start replacing in for lurker town?
So... Yeah I think there's a decent chance he's just that scum wind trying to do some damage with a "weakened" slot.
HOWEVER
I've seen dota trying to be a town leader. He blew strong in Russian roulette especially. Could have seen that as a start to a session that's includes a wider view of the whole.
But looking less likely after dropping that and leaving.
Look, I wanted to hit at least one person with the soul dtrsling just to prove my claim/flavor, and rode my was ideal because he is clearly not an advocate for me, and was unlikely to be killed off. Going forward, bulletproof would be nice, but I don't think it is terribly important, so I am completely content not to take any other souls. Although, there was a request from someone to have me target them tonight, presumably for some kind of verification purpose, so maybe 2? I don't care.
Well I was sort waiting for him to keep going but everyone stepping all over that and telling him exactly what he needs to say...
Dota blew in here trying to cause damage. It's not confused town working in. There's no "wtf iso no flips" there's no look at how his slot's been treated which is, like, where you start replacing in for lurker town?
So... Yeah I think there's a decent chance he's just that scum wind trying to do some damage with a "weakened" slot.
HOWEVER
I've seen dota trying to be a town leader. He blew strong in Russian roulette especially. Could have seen that as a start to a session that's includes a wider view of the whole.
But looking less likely after dropping that and leaving.
unvote
Vote: dotarchon
Impress me
Russian roulette was a gimmick game, but his approach to that game was definitely a larger view than he presented here.
I'm of two minds regarding Dota. First is as everyone else has mentioned that level of lazer focus in a first post is eyebrow raising to say the least even if it is displaying solid effort. It makes no attempt to look at the game as a whole, comment on who died or anything really. That said there is like 0 opposition to this lynch right now. And I'm not convinced this was such a scummy post that the only reaction to it would be to bus. I mean maybe town just turned on it en mas very quickly (and the people poking at it are generally my town reads (Rod, Kazin, and Tom), but it feels like if Dota was scum someone would be trying to defend him and talk about it as a post showing game solving intent. The closest thing to that is Shadow poking at the specific idea that AE used to counter vote it (that Nancy not participating makes the argument invalid coming from Dota(Which is an awful counter argument)).
Anyway I don't want to rush this wagon on Dota, it feels right but AE also looks pretty suspect right now.
Also Rod is probably even more townie for this page. I love him calling out Dota for the town read based on tone from a gimmick game and think his progression here looks really natural.
Also liking shadow unless he's buddies with Dota, but that defense feels much more town trying to stop bad arguments than scum defending a buddy.
Not really convinced a buddy would put themselves out there in any way over that slot, grape. And hasn't really been enough time for resistance anyway.
Not really convinced a buddy would put themselves out there in any way over that slot, grape. And hasn't really been enough time for resistance anyway.
He's scummy. Go with it.
I'm already voting Dota (via Nancy) just wanted to point it out. It's happening very easily right now, but it still feels right.
Every time I try to convince myself to read D1 I lose motivation the second I remember we don't have flips.
@ArchmageEternal What about Dota making a case on you is opportunistic? Ironic sure, but irony isn't scummy. You weren't under any real pressure when Dota made his post.
I haven't disappeared or forgotten about the game, yesterday was my budget review meetings. Spent half he day travelling and half the day discussing budgets. I will post later today.
Not really convinced a buddy would put themselves out there in any way over that slot, grape. And hasn't really been enough time for resistance anyway.
He's scummy. Go with it.
I'm already voting Dota (via Nancy) just wanted to point it out. It's happening very easily right now, but it still feels right.
This is exactly where I’m at; I pushed Nancy half the day yesterday and met a brick wall, and now it’s just effortless and I’m just a little bit spooked.
Regarding the argument that it’s hipocritical for Dota to push a low poster when his predescesor was a lurker themselves: No, it’s not; regardless of his alignment, there’s nothing he can do about how Nancy played, and ignoring scumminess (perceived or actual) of another player just because it resembles a slot he replaced into doesn’t make sense. Anyone voting specifically because of this argument is wrong, and has earned me as a skeptic.
Unvote for the time being. I still think it’s just largely likely that Dota is scum, but I’m less convinced than I was 24 hours ago.
Not really convinced a buddy would put themselves out there in any way over that slot, grape. And hasn't really been enough time for resistance anyway.
He's scummy. Go with it.
I'm already voting Dota (via Nancy) just wanted to point it out. It's happening very easily right now, but it still feels right.
This is exactly where I’m at; I pushed Nancy half the day yesterday and met a brick wall, and now it’s just effortless and I’m just a little bit spooked.
Regarding the argument that it’s hipocritical for Dota to push a low poster when his predescesor was a lurker themselves: No, it’s not; regardless of his alignment, there’s nothing he can do about how Nancy played, and ignoring scumminess (perceived or actual) of another player just because it resembles a slot he replaced into doesn’t make sense. Anyone voting specifically because of this argument is wrong, and has earned me as a skeptic.
Unvote for the time being. I still think it’s just largely likely that Dota is scum, but I’m less convinced than I was 24 hours ago.
Ugh a Shadow/Dota/AE team seems possible to me.
I dislike this back off.
The post by Dota is particularly scummy, because all he did was focus on one player who had been AFK for a bit.
Its either bussing or scum picking on a weak member.
Dota’s post was not as scummy as I think people are saying. It kind of depends on why he did it this way, but the surge of people onto him isn’t natural. So yeah, it could be bussing, but if people were going to bus Dota, why wait until you have a replacement that could potentially salvage the slot?
Frankly, as it’s still only day 2, I’d be fine lynching him based on Nancy’s play alone, but outside factors make me want to dot my i’s and cross my t’s just to make sure this isn’t a more sinister plot.
Having a little trouble fathoming both of you making judgment that it's too easy, in a less than 48 hour period since he posted, more than 2 weeks before deadline.
Every time I try to convince myself to read D1 I lose motivation the second I remember we don't have flips.
Safe assumption they were both town.
I thought DBS was town before the flip, and still think she likely was, but not having certainty on it makes it harder to feel comfortable drawing conclusions. I really should reread and see where Rhand's head was at though.
Having a little trouble fathoming both of you making judgment that it's too easy, in a less than 48 hour period since he posted, more than 2 weeks before deadline.
Thats just it though, I could not get hardly anyone to consider Nancy yesterday, and now a replacement and one real post earns him an entire thread against him that quickly? That’s like definitively too easy, what do you think it is?
Azrael (4): Rodemy, D_V, vezokpiraka, Kazin Drake
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): tomsloger
Nancy Drew 39 (2): Grapefruit21, shadowlancerx
shadowlancerx (1): Nancy Drew 39
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
The deadline is set for March 7th at 0000 hours EST.
-
Nancy Drew 39 has requested replacement. I am seeking one, now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Unvote
First off, we're not lynching Az, unless there is damn solid reasoning to do so. "Lol Neutral" is not a solid reason. Especially since Rodemy has confirmed the existence of a neutral in this game. "But who says Rodemy is town?" I do. I've just finished a game with scum Rod and there is a MASSIVE difference in tone/behaviour compared. I might be wrong (Lord knows I have been often enough in the past) but for now I see no reason to doubt his claim.
Secondly, @Az, two questions:
1) How would you compare your approach here to the approach you took in Mind Screw?
2) Why Rodemy?
Third, everyone should go and read the 17 posts made by Archmage Eternal. He has done nothing constructive in this game:
Day 1
Post 1 - Accuses KA of fear mongering. Never goes further into this. Also mentions a flaw in KA's reasoning but never points out what it is. Confusing reponse to Shadow voting Az and not wanting a neutral to survive past day 1.
Post 2 - Responds to Vezok voting for Az, then votes for Rodemy for voting for Az with a one word explanation: "Horrible".
Post 3 - Asks Terry about Grapefruit. Never follows up on this.
Post 4 - Filler
Post 5 - Tells Vezok to forget Az and look elsewhere. That is all.
Post 6 - Asks Az to vote for Rodemy, also willing to vote for Vezok.
Post 7 - Catchup promise after 3 days absent. Will give benefit of doubt though, came down with flu.
Post 8 - Basic explanation to Tom about whyvote is on Rodemy. Wonders why Rod not in claim range yet.
Post 9 - Quotes DBS and shades them for voting for him, when he was bottom of DBS townlean pile. DBS explains the vote in the quoted posts though. First time DBS is mentioned at all by AE, never engaged with them while they were both voting for Rod.
Post 10 - Asks DBS a question about something they said about AE/Rod, never follows up on this despite DBS responding to the question. Asks if DBS thinks Rod is scum, even though DBS had made several posts about Rod and had him at the bottom of their T/S list.
Post 11 - Questions Kazin's townread of him. Responds to Rodemy's argument with Vezok with a flawed statement
Post 12 - Moves vote from Rodemy to DBS to join wagon, expresses townread of tom as reason. Quotes a votecount instead of tom's reasoning for voting there. Fifth on the wagon, requires eight to lynch. No further posts on day 1, DBS is lynch.
Day 2
Post 13 - Speculates DBS(dead) and Rhand(dead) roles, hints at Rhand being the NK for soft counterclaiming DBS. Accuses Kazin of fear mongering. Asks about Kazin's role despite the answer being right there in the quoted post.
Post 14 - Quotes two posts of Rhand's. The first is Rhand wanting to look into the same players that Terry does (Nancy/Nobue/Vezok) and the second is Rhand saying he believes DBS's claim. Inexplicably cuts out the part of the quote that gives it context though. Asks general question about number of Town/Scum/Neutrals. Rodemy had claimed census role by this point.
Post15 - "Don't lynch Az because Neutral"
Post 16 - Admits to having missed Rodemy's post about the faction numbers, but asks if it's speculation instead of going back to read the posts himself.
Post 17 - Hints at PR by asking Az to target him with soul-steal, "should have thought of this Day 1"
So not only have they done nothing remotely resembling scumhunting, but every vote they have made or opinion expressed on a player has been setup in such a way as to be able to say, "Oh but X player was also saying this..." Apart from the initial Rodemy vote that was never really delved into.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
So according to you we should also be voting you for your predecessors activity.
Funny you mention me having a PR, curious as to what it is huh? Just ask?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
you are welcome to go back to where I talked about it yesterday. I have nothing new.
@dota
I appreciate a new wind blowing in. And he could totally be scum. But what do you think of anyone else?
Did you read the whole game or just archmage iso?
Because this was a matter of record as opposed to intent. It would be like if someone asked you if anyone had pushed you and I answered DBS had. I know answering questions is a no no, but in that case it's a thing that is on the record in Az's first post.
Az, still want an answer.
Were you the person who wanted to try to catch scum by making me claim my name twice?
The Flying Dutchman.
1. In Mind Screw I had a viable win con. So, I actually played towards it.
2. Trying too hard to find excuses to neutral hunt.
I don't see Az pulling the Kraken out and doing this claim. I think whoever is associated with the Kraken is happy to use Az's existence as cover, but I think Az is the wrong place to be looking today.
And AZ at this point is probably just neutral (or scum with rodemy, who seems town to me)
Idk if the kraken is related to the lack of flips. But it's the biggest worry for me rather than the kraken, and I'm hoping that there's someone to lynch to make it stop.
And if az is scum he's probably not that person based on claim. I think?
This post did nothing for me or anyone. Lynch scummy people. Technically that's not AZ.
But frankly I'm tired of feeling held hostage by any neutral.
I'm tired of watching MTGS let claims like this stand. Lets just get this out of the way now instead of panicking when the bodies hit the floor.
He's probably lying about the exact shape. It's pretty common knowledge that 90% of an iceberg is below the surface. God this metaphor is perfect...
But with rodemy confirming multiple parts of his role, there is a neutral that's stealing souls. I doubt the neutral would ever be able to win faster than he could try to side with the scumteam at 3-1-4 on day 4 (or the scumteam could lynch him ftw).
So it seems like that's the latest we could deal with it. I could see an argument for lynching him day 3 before he even gets a chance to choose a side.
And if he's scum rather than neutral, rodemy is all but lock his partner. And we can chain that before lylo.
And if there's town killpower out there somewhere, it's ~always used on him.
Let's lynch scum (again?) today
Technically the claim would put you in a trichotomy that always contains [1-2 neutral, 1-2 scum, 0-1 town] but pretty much a garauntee you outlive the other 2
@Dotarchon: What do you think of DBS and her lynch.
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I understand not wanting to be stuck with Az being deadweight or worse later in the game, but do you truly believe his claim is a lie?
Yes. I don't believe the role is "As claimed"
I've seen this ***** too many times.
Azrael (4): Rodemy, D_V, vezokpiraka, Kazin Drake
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): tomsloger
Nancy Drew 39 (2): Grapefruit21, shadowlancerx
Archmage Eternal (1): DoTArchon
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
The deadline is set for March 7th at 0000 hours EST.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Idk why. His townclear of me based on tone feels.. weird. The tone of haiku mafia wasn't that different than here.
Dota can you point out the differences? I'm trying to see if you actually see something or are just throwing a townclear out there for towniepoints
Non-Killing abilities dont effect him at 2 souls, which he will have tonight.
Thoughts?
.. iso made it pretty clear that it's the kraken that is preventing the flips. You aren't that dumb, tom.
1. I dislike diving into a one-player analysis here. Natural town action seems to be giving overall thoughts on the game. If town!DoTA did a full read of the game to get this, why no similarly extensive analysis of anyone else? If he didn't read the whole game, why single out AE?
Conversely, is there scum motivation for such an analysis? Yes. Scumchat could be suggesting an AE push specifically, or more generally "push another player" to deflect. Scum!DoTA would read the scumchat at a higher priority than the thread itself.
2. The analysis itself. Most of it is not actually analysis. It is simply describing what someone did. I don't know if there's a term for this - but it gives the appearance of being a detailed analysis while not actually having thought or reasoning put into it.
vote DoTArchon
Request to replace "Nancy" with DOTA in votecounts.
As someone who was defending the slot I'll just say mine was the same.
I fully admit I was probabally wrong on Nancy Drew after seeing that post by dota.
The first is that we should be finding specifically the Kraken source and taking it out.
The second is that the Kraken being permanent short of lynches/kills may be overpowered, especially combined with what appears to be a targeting randomizer. It is quite possible that the Kraken has a built-in finite duration.
I think I should mention I'm currently using "kraken" and "thing hiding alignment flips" interchangeably; I suppose it's possible they're separate but that seems at least somewhat unlikely.
Fortunately, no matter what, we can assume that the source of the Kraken is scum, so normal scumhunting can work. It's just, effectively, an extended D1.
I remain happy with a D_V lynch but am willing to wait until more people come around on that. Obviously my reasoning wasn't convincing enough in D1 and I don't have more to add, so I'm not going to waste my time.
The final bit of this especially. I'm waiting to see how D_V handles the Day 2 and what things come about from it. I've been trying to hold a more objective read on others, but my read on him hasn't changed in the least as of yet. But with no new evidence to add, it feels moot to push on that button. The Az threat is one that continually becomes more of a threat... and sometimes the problem of the "iceberg" on the horizon is that if you don't correct early, you hit it.... What do they say about icebergs? You only see 10% of them? So Tom's analogy of him being an iceberg is apt in my opinion... He's the kind of role that if it's not dealt with early, it becomes very hard to deal with later... That said, DoTa has been... well... I thought the post was insightful originally, and got me focusing on someone who I hadn't paid a -ton- of attention to... and got me looking, but I could see where others are coming from on the points and how he might have gotten there.
@DoTArchon: Care to give a bit more in depth reads on others?
Dota blew in here trying to cause damage. It's not confused town working in. There's no "wtf iso no flips" there's no look at how his slot's been treated which is, like, where you start replacing in for lurker town?
So... Yeah I think there's a decent chance he's just that scum wind trying to do some damage with a "weakened" slot.
HOWEVER
I've seen dota trying to be a town leader. He blew strong in Russian roulette especially. Could have seen that as a start to a session that's includes a wider view of the whole.
But looking less likely after dropping that and leaving.
unvote
Vote: dotarchon
Impress me
Anyway I don't want to rush this wagon on Dota, it feels right but AE also looks pretty suspect right now.
Also Rod is probably even more townie for this page. I love him calling out Dota for the town read based on tone from a gimmick game and think his progression here looks really natural.
Also liking shadow unless he's buddies with Dota, but that defense feels much more town trying to stop bad arguments than scum defending a buddy.
He's scummy. Go with it.
I find it ironic and opportunistic
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I'm already voting Dota (via Nancy) just wanted to point it out. It's happening very easily right now, but it still feels right.
@ArchmageEternal What about Dota making a case on you is opportunistic? Ironic sure, but irony isn't scummy. You weren't under any real pressure when Dota made his post.
Regarding the argument that it’s hipocritical for Dota to push a low poster when his predescesor was a lurker themselves: No, it’s not; regardless of his alignment, there’s nothing he can do about how Nancy played, and ignoring scumminess (perceived or actual) of another player just because it resembles a slot he replaced into doesn’t make sense. Anyone voting specifically because of this argument is wrong, and has earned me as a skeptic.
Unvote for the time being. I still think it’s just largely likely that Dota is scum, but I’m less convinced than I was 24 hours ago.
Ugh a Shadow/Dota/AE team seems possible to me.
I dislike this back off.
The post by Dota is particularly scummy, because all he did was focus on one player who had been AFK for a bit.
Its either bussing or scum picking on a weak member.
Frankly, as it’s still only day 2, I’d be fine lynching him based on Nancy’s play alone, but outside factors make me want to dot my i’s and cross my t’s just to make sure this isn’t a more sinister plot.
Safe assumption they were both town.
I thought DBS was town before the flip, and still think she likely was, but not having certainty on it makes it harder to feel comfortable drawing conclusions. I really should reread and see where Rhand's head was at though.