I don't believe your 10 souls claim. In a game this size it would take until night 5 to get all the souls assuming you hammered every day. You might also be getting screwed out of your win con if people with souls die before you can steal them.
Even if all the bull***** was true, survivors are by definition anti-town.
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All I've got is that KamikazeArchon makes a good first impression. Town vibes for the breakdown of how to handle Az and agree on no hammers for Az.
True but your comment seems to veer a bit towards the fluffy side? For all I know; you and Az could both be scum and you're attempting to pocket Kami with this.
@Nobue I believe Jesters are considered bastard here. You seem to be implying that you are one (or maybe that Az is one, I"m not really sure what you're getting at), but bringing it up is a weird look.
How is he "implying" that he is "one? Why is that a "weird look"?
As the wincon of jesters is always to suicide; this seems to be a perfectly reasonable question from Nobue. It seems pretty clear to me that they were wondering if Az might be attempting to further their wincon by trying to get hammered.
@Az I got the opposite impression on 25. I think it's a town+ suggestion to try and force your hand like that. Don't see a scum claim at all.
Likely true. Could be a prescient townie observation or an attempt to distance from their possible scumbuddy?
I dunno; this post doesn't read right to me; so . . .
Vote:Grapefruit
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It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
As for being fluffy; yup. I thought Kami was townie and then commented on a few things I don't feel strongly about.
As for Nobue and Jesters I read his post like 5 times trying to figure out what he meant/why he brought it up. I still don't know what he's talking about (though your explanation of it being an implication of Az makes sense, I just was overthinking about it and had decided it couldn't be that...), but it's just weird. Jesters are weird and not cool and assuming Az is one is a weird jump to make.
@Vezok How are survivors inherently anti town? They're like the neutralest neutral. I guess they're dangerous in an end game mylo sort of situation, but apart from that shrug.
Also, Kami completely and utterly claimed scum in post 25. But I'll let you super sleuths figure out the precise reasoning on that. Can't make it too easy, now.
Yeah, you know this IMO; is the most sus thing that Az has posted thus far, because I can't - for the life of me - see anything even remotely scummy about Kami's post.
As for Nobue and Jesters I read his post like 5 times trying to figure out what he meant/why he brought it up. I still don't know what he's talking about (though your explanation of it being an implication of Az makes sense, I just was overthinking about it and had decided it couldn't be that...), but it's just weird. Jesters are weird and not cool and assuming Az is one is a weird jump to make.
I can only guess that they were sus of why anyone would - right off the bat, pretty much - place themselves as the most popular candidate to be lynched. Yeah, I've generally only come across jesters in micro games but I suppose being a noob on this site - by itself - I read it as null atm. *shrug*
@Vezok How are survivors inherently anti town? They're like the neutralest neutral. I guess they're dangerous in an end game mylo sort of situation, but apart from that shrug.
You could reasonably argue that anyone who either fails to contribute to town's wincon or interferes with it; is defacto, inherently "anti-town". Some people view obvious mislynches in the same light, even though, unlike a 3P/Survivor; a probable mislynch is still a townie causing unintended wifom for the other players. So while I don't view a Survivor or a 3P (who is not some variant of an SK) as "anti-town"; they are clearly not pro-town either.
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It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
Az's early open claim seems to suggest a more likely smoke screen than an actual claim. If everything he says is true, which, I believe it is, he's already pointed out a path at which he wins, we all lose. The first things that says to me are: "Bury my intentions in a sea of knowledge" or "call myself out as a potential enemy for all and get lynched early." However his immediate defensive state at being pointed out as this and pushing for a rushed lynch focus shift to Kamikaze says to me that he's actually not some kind of "wants to die early" role. I mean... the extra defensiveness he put forward about claiming to be a neutral and "I could just play dumb" also drive that nail home. The other thought I had was: maybe this is a ploy to try and avoid lynching to see the first night scum chat and not get lynched before he could try to make alliances play.
Nah, I'm kinda jumping quickly on the:
Vote: Azrael
bandwagon and just keep him at a nice healthy 0 stolen souls. I might just be a superstitious sort... but in my book Necromancy is never good.
First, a survivor with an extra wincon that causes everyone else to lose the game is odd from the get-go.
Exhibit A: As scum, cardinal rule of mislynches is to get the town to lynch people who are odd, instead of scummy. It's both very easy to do, and the town is usually inclined to give the scum a completely free pass for what is an actual mislynch. So, when dealing with someone who is a good potential victim for this tactic, emphasize their "weirdness", without explaining how what they're doing is a scum tell or makes any sense from a scum-motivated perspective.
Second, assuming that "survivor + souls wincon" is true, you would have no reason to honestly tell us the number of souls you need. Maybe you just win at 6 souls, or at 8 souls. Pushing an admitted non-town closer to an alleged wincon that would case everyone else to lose is crazy.
If Iso created a role that wins on day 3 and makes everyone lose, he's the crazy one. You could maybe make an argument for insta-losing by day 4, but that also seems very much like a sour grapes type scenario for both the town and scum. Neutrals aren't supposed to win easily or by surprise. They're supposed to be the hardest role to win with, and only in endgame. So even if you built in some margin of error for deception as a suspicious soul, the odds of it being six are pretty much nil. Yet, you fearmonger that narrative forward.
(On the plus side, with all this nice mislynch attention, I can probably count on not being a NK target now without you guys giving me any souls at all. Yay! Mission accomplished, bulletproof unlocked.)
You're a confident enough player that you could be gambitting with this as actual mafia; if "soul stealing" is a real mechanic, you would know that it would be revealed quickly by those who had it happen to them, and you're preparing your cover story. Alternately, it is possible you're telling the truth - but that still means you have an anti-town wincon option. Either way you're definitely not on our side unless we force you to be.
Fearmonger again, of course I'm confident enough to do that. I'm confident enough to do any number of things. Instead of stating that, you could actually maybe pause for a moment to consider if it's A) Smart or B) Likely.
Then concluding with a false dichotomy where even the prongs are completely false. Neutrals can behave as either townies or scum by predisposition. It's one of the things that makes them dangerous from a design standpoint - you can't balance for how the player chooses to lean, faction-wise. They could play it in a pro-town way, or an anti-town way. Makes it tough for the designer to predict. As for me, there's a long history, if you cared to look, of my playing neutral survivors on the townish end of things.
So, stating that I'm only on the town side unless I'm forced to be is just a completely ridiculous statement in the face of human nature, reality, and my past history that was clearly not carefully thought through.
So, we are accumulating an entire shipload worth of logic, argumentation, and hyperbole tells throughout this post. Could be just bad play, but color me suspicious once we get to this final sentence:
My counterproposal: we never allow Az to hammer, on pain of death. If we go too long without killing scum, we lynch Az. This prevents him from being scum and getting away with a neutral claim - and if he really is neutral, it forces him to win with the town.
First part is fine. I've got enough heat on me now that I don't even need the bulletproof particularly badly, I think. Second part - oh, I skimmed that a little fast, I think. It's not as bad as it struck me at first. You're wanting me to contribute to the lynch of the scum, so our motivations align? Well that's perfectly fine. My concern there was that you were just gunning for a free mislynch in the bag for scum when the town was already on the ropes and in a tough spot, to seal the win for the scum. Which, by the way, would be absolutely awful for the town, so you may want to be careful about that.
Unvote. We'll chalk those up as innocent logic tells, then.
I don't believe your 10 souls claim. In a game this size it would take until night 5 to get all the souls assuming you hammered every day. You might also be getting screwed out of your win con if people with souls die before you can steal them.
Even if all the bull***** was true, survivors are by definition anti-town.
See above - at what day of the game is the earliest do you think Iso wanted me to stealth-win by playing to this totally unfun win condition? Day 3? Day 4? Or Day 5? If you think it's earlier than that, you have a lower opinion of Iso's design skill and a higher opinion of his bastardry than you should. Nobody likes losing to an independent neutral outside of the endgame. They're not supposed to win quickly. That's not fun for anyone (including me).
It's not bull*****, it's self-evident from how the role would need to be designed, and as others have already called you out on, survivors are not anti-town. Why exaggerate there, Vez? Smelling blood in the water, perhaps?
Az's early open claim seems to suggest a more likely smoke screen than an actual claim. If everything he says is true, which, I believe it is, he's already pointed out a path at which he wins, we all lose. The first things that says to me are: "Bury my intentions in a sea of knowledge" or "call myself out as a potential enemy for all and get lynched early." However his immediate defensive state at being pointed out as this and pushing for a rushed lynch focus shift to Kamikaze says to me that he's actually not some kind of "wants to die early" role. I mean... the extra defensiveness he put forward about claiming to be a neutral and "I could just play dumb" also drive that nail home. The other thought I had was: maybe this is a ploy to try and avoid lynching to see the first night scum chat and not get lynched before he could try to make alliances play.
Nah, I'm kinda jumping quickly on the:
Vote: Azrael
bandwagon and just keep him at a nice healthy 0 stolen souls. I might just be a superstitious sort... but in my book Necromancy is never good.
I'm calling for a "rush lynch" on Kami, when I didn't even bother to point out what was wrong with his post? You have a strange definition of what pushing for rush lynching looks like, or you're exaggerating there.
Why do you feel this early claim is more likely to be a smoke screen? In my experience, the earlier the claim, the more truth there is to it, typically. It's the ones who sit on their claims and keep their options open and brood on what the most effective false-claim is that you need to watch out for. Here, I just vomited the truth into the thread at my first available opportunity, because I don't particularly want to play towards either of those objectives.
Ah. Some people are reading me actually trying to give you a chance to read my mindset by explaining it as over defensiveness? Nevermind that over-defensiveness is one of the most badly mangled tells in history. Hunh. Perhaps that was what bugged people a bit in zero escape, too. Only here, there's no DBS to be my interpreter. Maybe just Tom, if he's on his game.
I'm thinking I'm leaning on this post being another townie paranoia tell, based on primarily that last sentence. It's just such a weird line of thinking, you clearly were trying to think of more interesting possibilities beyond you just "odd" "vulnerable" "burn the mislynch with fire!" classic line of play, so points for that. Do you think that if I actually wanted to play this role conventionally, I'd have claimed it in a million years? I could have skated through Day 1 with a no claim just playing my normal townie self like a hot knife through butter.
Problem is, at some point, town is going to wonder who the flying dutchman is, and they're going to ask me to claim. Well, I've got nothing to hide, and I don't want the town to think that I do. So my preferred solution to that is to claim instantly, rather than asking you to believe a neutral claim on day 4 or 5 or during a mass-claim, or setting myself up for a lynch by false-claiming. Those are the things that get you killed as a neutral, and before I invest effort in the game, I'd like to know if I'm going to have a shot at being allowed to play to the town win con or not right at the start rather than playing coy for four or five days, putting in a bunch of effort to find scum for you, and then being shot in the face because the town got scared of the ominous neutral player.
Tom is doin a storytelling thing that could be a way of misinformation.
I believe azreal, but i still wanna lynch him.
vote azreal
If you believe me, why lynch?
Perhaps you believe that it's good town play to murder non-killing neutrals and give the scum free lynches?
I mean, I can understand and appreciate people who think I'm lying - they're totally failing to correctly read what's right in front of their noses, but sure, neutrals lie sometimes, that's a thing you're on guard against. But uh, believe me AND want to lynch?
Is this a "I'm scum and know he's telling the truth but don't want to to be demonstrably wrong when he flips exactly as he said he would" thing?
Eh. That last line for Kazin is just so...it bugs me. It's an awkward line/rationale, seems manufactured. I guess you could also argue that the considering a scum alliance thing is more likely to come from scum?
Az, why did you respond to literally everyone else but me?
Having had a night to think about it, I kinda think it might be okay to leave you alive, but on our rules, not yours.
-You’re never to hammer.
-You play for real up front and not this system of credit you’ve set forth (ie, you don’t get to just “not try” until you’re bullet proof)
-You don’t get to spew scum sided rhetoric; any more bull crap about helping scum in end game and I perma-Vote you until one of us is dead.
I might think of some others, but that’s what I’m starting with.
Didn't respond because I don't have a read on you baded on what you said at this point. Post zero eacape, you're in a different read category for me now.
Also, limited past experiences says Tom is slightly more likely town, but I resent other people pulling smilie gambit variations, so I have to vote him on principle.
Is there anything pointing you to a town read on him other than his post restriction?
Is there anything pointing you to a town read on him other than his post restriction?
Nothing except I know his tendency to entertain himself as town that way, which is only a tiny point in his favor in my mind.
Okay, he specifically said before PMs went out that he would be gimmicking, so it’s NAI. And it’s kind of too early to tell imo, but I do like his post about me, his ever so slight leeriness this early probably comes from town slightly more often than from scum?
Perhaps the clouds were just clouds. It was too early to tell.
But on the open sea, focusing on one thing is a good way to lose your way
Hey, so if I ask you a direct question, will you answer in your storybookedness or will you just ethereally comment as it suits your whim?
For example, am I to interpret correctly that you think Az might not actually be a threat, and if so, how do you feel about the rules I put forth to him?
The times where I've seen it happen they claimed they will help the town, like Az is doing, and ended lynching town in MyLo cause they felt the scum team played better than the town. There is no accountability. Also the longer we wait the harder to lynch Az will be.
There's also the fact that he claimed another win con. It almost feels like the survivor claim is tacked on to make it seem less bad than it is.
And on top of this I'm really biased against survivors as every time I drew the role I ended up being lynched because I'd help scum in the end. I really don't want to see you win.
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The times where I've seen it happen they claimed they will help the town, like Az is doing, and ended lynching town in MyLo cause they felt the scum team played better than the town. There is no accountability. Also the longer we wait the harder to lynch Az will be.
There's also the fact that he claimed another win con. It almost feels like the survivor claim is tacked on to make it seem less bad than it is.
And on top of this I'm really biased against survivors as every time I drew the role I ended up being lynched because I'd help scum in the end. I really don't want to see you win.
I don’t disagree; I’d like to see how he plays and prove that he’ll townside, but I would probably just auto hammer him if he got run up. I will admit to my own suspicions about him having the survivor clause of his role.
Perhaps the clouds were just clouds. It was too early to tell.
The clouds are but a dark smudge on the horizon. It's is far more important to watch them change and build and move closer. And far more interesting to watch the seabirds that are so preoccupied with it,
shadowlancer, that's almost exactly what I proposed for Az. Are you copying my plan as payback for copying your joke?
I knew you’d mentioned not letting him hammer, but no, I didn’t intentionally copy you, I was aiming to set actually bulleted rules. Do you have any you’d like to add?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Azreal has made many good points and overall I'm okish with letting him live for the moment.
BUT!
His role as claimed is false.
Azreal's claimed role wins as soon as day 5.
Azreal hammering would not be suspect to players if he didn't announce it. His soul ability part also makes little to no sense. The game of this part should be obvious. Azreal has the chance to pick up extra souls BUT he has to correctly figure out who the NK target is and not target them. This makes Azreal dangerous. But I don't think we need to lynch him immediately.
Also Azreal made a comment about something scum did but didn't pick up on a possible mafia doing it. And it has been called out in the thread already. So I'll give him a chance to rectify this.
Just one:
- If we go two Days without lynching scum, and we're not at MyLo, lynch Az.
This is the "stick" to keep him in line, and guards us against Az being actualscum running a neutral gambit.
I also want your opinion on someone besides Az.
I think Tom is ever so slightly >rand town, and I (without actually looking back) kind of think Rod/Kazin/vezok could all be town as well since I’d like to think scum wouldn’t really get involved in Az enough to vote him already. Granted, I’ve seen scum with a hate complex towards neutrals before, so this is contingient on how things go moving forward.
Yes, a lot of this is based on Az’s claim, but that’s the biggest thing that’s happened.
caught up
looks like another Azrael game has begun
I see more use for a hostage alive and surrendered
it works as our windbreak against CFDs
and lynch fodder when necessary
I wonder why Rodemy wants tpr lynched over scumspects though Vote: Rodemy
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
There’s something that bugs me with Aztael’s claim. He says he gains souls by hammering (which kills a person) and by just targeting them at Night.
Flavor-wise that doesn’t really make sense. It would make way more sense if the one he targets at Night dies too.
@Azrael: would we know when our soul is stolen?
What happens if you hammer someone whose soul you stole before?
The role is pretty close to one Iso once rolled when he was a neutral violin. I don’t think Azrael was in that game, so I think there is at least some truth to the claim. I’ll have a look if I can find that game and see how that role worked.
It’s an iso game, so that could actually be a thing, but it’s also a normal....I think I want you to prove your ability to steal souls before we talk about accords.
They're kinda one in the same. Your gonna allow him to steal souls so might as well have him work with us. He show coming into day 2 that he stole a soul,
then what? you just gonna say ok your with us?
First, a survivor with an extra wincon that causes everyone else to lose the game is odd from the get-go.
My counterproposal: we never allow Az to hammer, on pain of death. If we go too long without killing scum, we lynch Az. This prevents him from being scum and getting away with a neutral claim - and if he really is neutral, it forces him to win with the town.
First, No not really. Stop trying to scare the town.
Eh. That last line for Kazin is just so...it bugs me. It's an awkward line/rationale, seems manufactured. I guess you could also argue that the considering a scum alliance thing is more likely to come from scum?
Eh. He's in shrug pile still.
Last line of that was in relation to the Soul Stealing. Honestly I have this thing against any person whose role is "And everyone else loses." One way or another, you're a threat to everyone else. No matter what your possible wincon, you're still specifically looking at an alt wincon that says only you win. These games are fun because teams get the chance to duke it out over who is the better "super sleuth." One guy throwing everyone the bird is just a crappy role that is a middle finger to everyone else.
Heeeey Kazin, I’m assuming you’ve played before, might I ask where?
I've played table-tops and stuff... like Mafia and Werewolf. This's my first time playing on this board.
______________________________________________________
So... bottom line: a lynch against a neutral isn't as beneficial by anyone's standards, but it does still push us towards a team victory no matter what, as opposed to a survivor single player win. Just having that knowledge open and in play means that its someone nobody can truly trust. With it being Day 1 and us having little to no idea just how crazy things might get over the night with such wild and detailed role positions, I think spending a first lynch nerfing down the guy who dicks over EVERYONE seems like a smart first play.
I don't believe your 10 souls claim. In a game this size it would take until night 5 to get all the souls assuming you hammered every day. You might also be getting screwed out of your win con if people with souls die before you can steal them.
Even if all the bull***** was true, survivors are by definition anti-town.
Azrael does not hammer. Simple.
So what if they're anti-town, If they work with the town in lynching scum thats all we can ask.
I don't believe your 10 souls claim. In a game this size it would take until night 5 to get all the souls assuming you hammered every day. You might also be getting screwed out of your win con if people with souls die before you can steal them.
Even if all the bull***** was true, survivors are by definition anti-town.
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Why? All they've posted so far; was "confirmed"?
True but your comment seems to veer a bit towards the fluffy side? For all I know; you and Az could both be scum and you're attempting to pocket Kami with this.
How is he "implying" that he is "one? Why is that a "weird look"?
As the wincon of jesters is always to suicide; this seems to be a perfectly reasonable question from Nobue. It seems pretty clear to me that they were wondering if Az might be attempting to further their wincon by trying to get hammered.
Likely true. Could be a prescient townie observation or an attempt to distance from their possible scumbuddy?
I dunno; this post doesn't read right to me; so . . .
Vote:Grapefruit
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As for being fluffy; yup. I thought Kami was townie and then commented on a few things I don't feel strongly about.
As for Nobue and Jesters I read his post like 5 times trying to figure out what he meant/why he brought it up. I still don't know what he's talking about (though your explanation of it being an implication of Az makes sense, I just was overthinking about it and had decided it couldn't be that...), but it's just weird. Jesters are weird and not cool and assuming Az is one is a weird jump to make.
@Vezok How are survivors inherently anti town? They're like the neutralest neutral. I guess they're dangerous in an end game mylo sort of situation, but apart from that shrug.
Oh okay then; I just thought it strange that you voted for then without even a silly reason. LOL
Yeah, you know this IMO; is the most sus thing that Az has posted thus far, because I can't - for the life of me - see anything even remotely scummy about Kami's post.
I can only guess that they were sus of why anyone would - right off the bat, pretty much - place themselves as the most popular candidate to be lynched. Yeah, I've generally only come across jesters in micro games but I suppose being a noob on this site - by itself - I read it as null atm. *shrug*
You could reasonably argue that anyone who either fails to contribute to town's wincon or interferes with it; is defacto, inherently "anti-town". Some people view obvious mislynches in the same light, even though, unlike a 3P/Survivor; a probable mislynch is still a townie causing unintended wifom for the other players. So while I don't view a Survivor or a 3P (who is not some variant of an SK) as "anti-town"; they are clearly not pro-town either.
Nah, I'm kinda jumping quickly on the:
Vote: Azrael
bandwagon and just keep him at a nice healthy 0 stolen souls. I might just be a superstitious sort... but in my book Necromancy is never good.
Tom is doin a storytelling thing that could be a way of misinformation.
I believe azreal, but i still wanna lynch him.
vote azreal
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Exhibit A: As scum, cardinal rule of mislynches is to get the town to lynch people who are odd, instead of scummy. It's both very easy to do, and the town is usually inclined to give the scum a completely free pass for what is an actual mislynch. So, when dealing with someone who is a good potential victim for this tactic, emphasize their "weirdness", without explaining how what they're doing is a scum tell or makes any sense from a scum-motivated perspective.
If Iso created a role that wins on day 3 and makes everyone lose, he's the crazy one. You could maybe make an argument for insta-losing by day 4, but that also seems very much like a sour grapes type scenario for both the town and scum. Neutrals aren't supposed to win easily or by surprise. They're supposed to be the hardest role to win with, and only in endgame. So even if you built in some margin of error for deception as a suspicious soul, the odds of it being six are pretty much nil. Yet, you fearmonger that narrative forward.
(On the plus side, with all this nice mislynch attention, I can probably count on not being a NK target now without you guys giving me any souls at all. Yay! Mission accomplished, bulletproof unlocked.)
Fearmonger again, of course I'm confident enough to do that. I'm confident enough to do any number of things. Instead of stating that, you could actually maybe pause for a moment to consider if it's A) Smart or B) Likely.
Then concluding with a false dichotomy where even the prongs are completely false. Neutrals can behave as either townies or scum by predisposition. It's one of the things that makes them dangerous from a design standpoint - you can't balance for how the player chooses to lean, faction-wise. They could play it in a pro-town way, or an anti-town way. Makes it tough for the designer to predict. As for me, there's a long history, if you cared to look, of my playing neutral survivors on the townish end of things.
So, stating that I'm only on the town side unless I'm forced to be is just a completely ridiculous statement in the face of human nature, reality, and my past history that was clearly not carefully thought through.
So, we are accumulating an entire shipload worth of logic, argumentation, and hyperbole tells throughout this post. Could be just bad play, but color me suspicious once we get to this final sentence:
First part is fine. I've got enough heat on me now that I don't even need the bulletproof particularly badly, I think. Second part - oh, I skimmed that a little fast, I think. It's not as bad as it struck me at first. You're wanting me to contribute to the lynch of the scum, so our motivations align? Well that's perfectly fine. My concern there was that you were just gunning for a free mislynch in the bag for scum when the town was already on the ropes and in a tough spot, to seal the win for the scum. Which, by the way, would be absolutely awful for the town, so you may want to be careful about that.
Unvote. We'll chalk those up as innocent logic tells, then.
See above - at what day of the game is the earliest do you think Iso wanted me to stealth-win by playing to this totally unfun win condition? Day 3? Day 4? Or Day 5? If you think it's earlier than that, you have a lower opinion of Iso's design skill and a higher opinion of his bastardry than you should. Nobody likes losing to an independent neutral outside of the endgame. They're not supposed to win quickly. That's not fun for anyone (including me).
It's not bull*****, it's self-evident from how the role would need to be designed, and as others have already called you out on, survivors are not anti-town. Why exaggerate there, Vez? Smelling blood in the water, perhaps?
I'm calling for a "rush lynch" on Kami, when I didn't even bother to point out what was wrong with his post? You have a strange definition of what pushing for rush lynching looks like, or you're exaggerating there.
Why do you feel this early claim is more likely to be a smoke screen? In my experience, the earlier the claim, the more truth there is to it, typically. It's the ones who sit on their claims and keep their options open and brood on what the most effective false-claim is that you need to watch out for. Here, I just vomited the truth into the thread at my first available opportunity, because I don't particularly want to play towards either of those objectives.
Ah. Some people are reading me actually trying to give you a chance to read my mindset by explaining it as over defensiveness? Nevermind that over-defensiveness is one of the most badly mangled tells in history. Hunh. Perhaps that was what bugged people a bit in zero escape, too. Only here, there's no DBS to be my interpreter. Maybe just Tom, if he's on his game.
I'm thinking I'm leaning on this post being another townie paranoia tell, based on primarily that last sentence. It's just such a weird line of thinking, you clearly were trying to think of more interesting possibilities beyond you just "odd" "vulnerable" "burn the mislynch with fire!" classic line of play, so points for that. Do you think that if I actually wanted to play this role conventionally, I'd have claimed it in a million years? I could have skated through Day 1 with a no claim just playing my normal townie self like a hot knife through butter.
Problem is, at some point, town is going to wonder who the flying dutchman is, and they're going to ask me to claim. Well, I've got nothing to hide, and I don't want the town to think that I do. So my preferred solution to that is to claim instantly, rather than asking you to believe a neutral claim on day 4 or 5 or during a mass-claim, or setting myself up for a lynch by false-claiming. Those are the things that get you killed as a neutral, and before I invest effort in the game, I'd like to know if I'm going to have a shot at being allowed to play to the town win con or not right at the start rather than playing coy for four or five days, putting in a bunch of effort to find scum for you, and then being shot in the face because the town got scared of the ominous neutral player.
If you believe me, why lynch?
Perhaps you believe that it's good town play to murder non-killing neutrals and give the scum free lynches?
I mean, I can understand and appreciate people who think I'm lying - they're totally failing to correctly read what's right in front of their noses, but sure, neutrals lie sometimes, that's a thing you're on guard against. But uh, believe me AND want to lynch?
Is this a "I'm scum and know he's telling the truth but don't want to to be demonstrably wrong when he flips exactly as he said he would" thing?
Kami
nobue
Scum-lean:
Vez
Rodemy
Eh. He's in shrug pile still.
I just dont think it's conducive to a town win.
Dont be spewing that scurvy ridden habadashery on my ship, yarr
Sorry, with those pesky specifics and actually stating your reasoning stuff. Very un-piratelike.
Having had a night to think about it, I kinda think it might be okay to leave you alive, but on our rules, not yours.
-You’re never to hammer.
-You play for real up front and not this system of credit you’ve set forth (ie, you don’t get to just “not try” until you’re bullet proof)
-You don’t get to spew scum sided rhetoric; any more bull crap about helping scum in end game and I perma-Vote you until one of us is dead.
I might think of some others, but that’s what I’m starting with.
I'm cool with them, but it depends mainly on how everyone else feels.
Nothing except I know his tendency to entertain himself as town that way, which is only a tiny point in his favor in my mind.
But on the open sea, focusing on one thing is a good way to lose your way
For example, am I to interpret correctly that you think Az might not actually be a threat, and if so, how do you feel about the rules I put forth to him?
The times where I've seen it happen they claimed they will help the town, like Az is doing, and ended lynching town in MyLo cause they felt the scum team played better than the town. There is no accountability. Also the longer we wait the harder to lynch Az will be.
There's also the fact that he claimed another win con. It almost feels like the survivor claim is tacked on to make it seem less bad than it is.
And on top of this I'm really biased against survivors as every time I drew the role I ended up being lynched because I'd help scum in the end. I really don't want to see you win.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
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The clouds are but a dark smudge on the horizon. It's is far more important to watch them change and build and move closer. And far more interesting to watch the seabirds that are so preoccupied with it,
Nobue: I still want answers to my questions to you.
What have you found there that's interesting?
- If we go two Days without lynching scum, and we're not at MyLo, lynch Az.
This is the "stick" to keep him in line, and guards us against Az being actualscum running a neutral gambit.
I also want your opinion on someone besides Az.
Archmage Eternal (1): KamikazeArchon
Nobue_Itoh (1): tomsloger
Azrael (3): vezokpiraka, Kazin Drake, Rodemy
KamikazeArchon (1): Nobue_Itoh
vezokpiraka (1): Grapefruit21
Grapefruit21 (1): Nancy Drew 39
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
BUT!
His role as claimed is false.
Azreal's claimed role wins as soon as day 5.
Azreal hammering would not be suspect to players if he didn't announce it. His soul ability part also makes little to no sense. The game of this part should be obvious. Azreal has the chance to pick up extra souls BUT he has to correctly figure out who the NK target is and not target them. This makes Azreal dangerous. But I don't think we need to lynch him immediately.
Also Azreal made a comment about something scum did but didn't pick up on a possible mafia doing it. And it has been called out in the thread already. So I'll give him a chance to rectify this.
+ A lot of Townie points to Nancy BTW.
Yes, a lot of this is based on Az’s claim, but that’s the biggest thing that’s happened.
Was a little too hasty there. KamikazeArchon has read a lot more like town in continual posting.
looks like another Azrael game has begun
I see more use for a hostage alive and surrendered
it works as our windbreak against CFDs
and lynch fodder when necessary
I wonder why Rodemy wants tpr lynched over scumspects though
Vote: Rodemy
Be grateful, always."
#58
he suspects Kamikaze and Shadow
Be grateful, always."
Flavor-wise that doesn’t really make sense. It would make way more sense if the one he targets at Night dies too.
@Azrael: would we know when our soul is stolen?
What happens if you hammer someone whose soul you stole before?
The role is pretty close to one Iso once rolled when he was a neutral violin. I don’t think Azrael was in that game, so I think there is at least some truth to the claim. I’ll have a look if I can find that game and see how that role worked.
Be grateful, always."
Yes. But it could get tricky.
I am the only one.
They're kinda one in the same. Your gonna allow him to steal souls so might as well have him work with us. He show coming into day 2 that he stole a soul,
then what? you just gonna say ok your with us?
Nah
First, No not really. Stop trying to scare the town.
Theres a flaw here.
No. I have no intrest in letting a scum get past day one.
Thats page 0ne. Now onto page two.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Last line of that was in relation to the Soul Stealing. Honestly I have this thing against any person whose role is "And everyone else loses." One way or another, you're a threat to everyone else. No matter what your possible wincon, you're still specifically looking at an alt wincon that says only you win. These games are fun because teams get the chance to duke it out over who is the better "super sleuth." One guy throwing everyone the bird is just a crappy role that is a middle finger to everyone else.
I've played table-tops and stuff... like Mafia and Werewolf. This's my first time playing on this board.
______________________________________________________
So... bottom line: a lynch against a neutral isn't as beneficial by anyone's standards, but it does still push us towards a team victory no matter what, as opposed to a survivor single player win. Just having that knowledge open and in play means that its someone nobody can truly trust. With it being Day 1 and us having little to no idea just how crazy things might get over the night with such wild and detailed role positions, I think spending a first lynch nerfing down the guy who dicks over EVERYONE seems like a smart first play.
Clarify please. Do you mean an exclusive chat that only scum sees happening in tandem with the open conversation?
Azrael does not hammer. Simple.
So what if they're anti-town, If they work with the town in lynching scum thats all we can ask.
Horrible
Vote Rodemy
Waiting to hear this,
They hate us cause they ain't us.