That Mikey wagon hurts because I'm pretty confident there's at least 1 scum there.
That means Mikey is probably town... Hmm.
do you see anything specific about Emcee that says town? bouncing it off the fact that others could be scum isn't a good explanation, since even scum can do that.
Mostly POE and a little bit of townie frustration like in 231.
@Osie & @Shadow: Vezok is posting and interacting. I feel like he'll be decipherable with time. One of you come help me pressure Anak so we get some sort of response out of him. If you aren't interested, pray tell why not.
Sigh
I suppose I could...
I'm concerned that you're being pockety this game, Cantrip, but I'll roll with it for now.
@Cantrip: Do you have previous experience with Vezok from times past?
I...don't think so? If we were, it was a while ago. Why?
Quote from Shadow »
Also which posts between Mikey and Ruma look TvT?
Rumanshi in 228 goads Mikey to tunnel him, but it seems done to encourage dialogue. Mikey sounds like he believes he's Legit Hoisted Rumanshi By His Own Petard(tm) in 230. But then Mikey says that a) he (Mikey) hasn't done a good job pressuring Rumanshi and b) if he (Mikey) were scum, he'd have his partner pressuring Rumanshi. So it sorta feels like Mikey is also playing to his own self-admitted scum behavior. And when would scum ever attack someone then behave in a way that mimics the behavior they were attacking that someone for? And then in 232, Rumanshi takes Mikey's "so you were lying" comment as a serious attack. There's a sincerity in that knee-jerk response that I think is hard to fake.
Quote from Shadow »
@Dawning: Cantrip has a so-so scum game.
I will cut you.
Quote from Shadow »
>:D Just kidding, Cantrip is correct, I would caution you to be very careful with reading him as well.
I was curious about the agenda driven comment because I wanted to completely understand what you meant by it. And knowing that, I will say this, why does that make someone scummy? Do town never post things other than words specifically designated for scum hunting?
In my experience, rarely. Wild cards like Seppel and Tom sometimes do, and sometimes a player will go off on a meta-mafia tangent or a "this is my deeply held belief about mafia how dare you question it" tangent, but most the time, town just wants to scumhunt.
Quote from Anak »
What agenda do you think I am pushing? Why does pushing that agenda actually make me scum?
Where did I say you were pushing an agenda?? I'm not getting an agenda from you. Rather, I feel like you're opting to let a nitpick do all the hard work for you, which I've seen come from scum in the past. (Don't ask me for specifics, please. I know I've seen it, but I'm not at a point where I'll be able to track down examples.)
Quote from Anak »
Either way I'm still sticking with my evaluate later read of him, it worked out in another game (Biceps mafia I think?)
You're saying you have Mikey in an "evaluate later" category?
Quote from Anak »
I don't plan on lurking, but I'm never at the top of the post list, as evidenced by every game ever I have been in
My accusation was a little tongue in cheek. The point being that if you're scum, you'd never admit to planning to lurk. I'm glad, however, to get something more from you. While you're here, can we get some reads (preferably with reasons)?
Shadow, do you think I am actually scum or are you just voting me to force him to explain his read of me? Either way I'm still sticking with my evaluate later read of him, it worked out in another game (Biceps mafia I think?)
Its a little of both with some “let’s see what happens” thrown in. Obviously I recognize that you’re mislynch bait when you’re town, but I also know I’ve seen an Anak that I could tell was town even when no one else could, and I don’t see that Anak here.
Wrt Tom: I am curious when his secret read on you is, because I do think he is very good at reading you, but it’s more in the background than the foreground.
And yes, the “wait and see” approach is typically the best approach when trying to read Tom.
I'm concerned that you're being pockety this game, Cantrip, but I'll roll with it for now.
Vote: Anaklusmos
Eeeehhhhh, talk to me about your concern that Cantrip is being pockety; and if you’re really concerned with this, why are you going along with him anyway? Do you think pockety Cantrip is scum!cantrip?
@Cantrip: Do you have previous experience with Vezok from times past?
I...don't think so? If we were, it was a while ago. Why?
The way you’d phrased a post talking about him sounded like you had, and if so I was going to have you compare and contrast his play, but never mind.
Quote from Cantrip »
Quote from Shadow »
Also which posts between Mikey and Ruma look TvT?
Rumanshi in 228 goads Mikey to tunnel him, but it seems done to encourage dialogue. Mikey sounds like he believes he's Legit Hoisted Rumanshi By His Own Petard(tm) in 230. But then Mikey says that a) he (Mikey) hasn't done a good job pressuring Rumanshi and b) if he (Mikey) were scum, he'd have his partner pressuring Rumanshi.
What does that even mean?
Quote from Cantrip »
So it sorta feels like Mikey is also playing to his own self-admitted scum behavior. And when would scum ever attack someone then behave in a way that mimics the behavior they were attacking that someone for? And then in 232, Rumanshi takes Mikey's "so you were lying" comment as a serious attack. There's a sincerity in that knee-jerk response that I think is hard to fake.
Regarding attacking someone then doing the same thing, that could be a lack of self awareness, but okay.
I dunno, I just....neither one of them has struck me as individually that townie, but I can kinda see what you’re saying. At the very least it’s something I’ll keep my eye on.
Quote from Cantrip »
Quote from Shadow »
@Dawning: Cantrip has a so-so scum game.
I will cut you.
Baby
Quote from Cantrip »
Hmm, wasn't my intent to get him to claim range.
Unvote
He still needs to come post content.
(your image doesn’t come through for me unless I have a photobucket account )
You’ve asked at least 3 people to come vote him with you, with claim range at 3 total, surely you considered the possibility?
Rumanshi in 228 goads Mikey to tunnel him, but it seems done to encourage dialogue. Mikey sounds like he believes he's Legit Hoisted Rumanshi By His Own Petard(tm) in 230. But then Mikey says that a) he (Mikey) hasn't done a good job pressuring Rumanshi and b) if he (Mikey) were scum, he'd have his partner pressuring Rumanshi.
What does that even mean?
Hoisted by your own petard means essentially to be blown up with your own bomb, but you probably knew that and are asking what I'm talking about here? Mikey's assertion that Rumanshi is playing as Rumanshi describes a scum player would play.
Quote from Shadow »
(your image doesn’t come through for me unless I have a photobucket account )
Yeah, because I am not Tom and therefore terrible at posting visual media in thread. Let me try again. Osie said "I'm concerned that you're being pockety this game, Cantrip, but I'll roll with it for now." And I said:
Quote from Shadow »
You’ve asked at least 3 people to come vote him with you, with claim range at 3 total, surely you considered the possibility?
I asked Tom and he said nah. I asked for ONE of you and Osie to join me. But I'm not surprised, hence the unvote and lack of any real concern about Osie's vote.
Thread feels a little dead. While I'm waiting for Anak, let's shake things up.
@Dawning: Pretend you have a dayvig shot you have to use today, but if you shoot town, you die instead. Who do you target?
@Osie: Several times you've referenced your POE as reasoning behind choices. Can you go into detail as to what that POE currently looks like?
@Rumanshi: Take a moment to think through this as though you were scum!Mikey. What purpose does scum!Mikey have behind saying he's going to tunnel you all Day, then not tunneling you until you call him out on it, then doing a terrible job of tunneling? How does that get scum!Mikey closer to his wincon?
@Mikey: In 230 you say that Rumanshi "tries to pass off RVS as actual reads". I don't think that Rumanshi sees what you see. Can you be explicit? Which specific part(s) of the post you quoted are you referring to?
@Osie: Several times you've referenced your POE as reasoning behind choices. Can you go into detail as to what that POE currently looks like?
Current Reads:
Conf Town:
Osie - Myself
Townie:
* Shadow - He's a meaniepants. But is putting good pressure on people; good questions.
* Tom - He doesn't seem agenda-driven here, kinda poking at people. I like his uncertainty on me, though he knows that I like that so it could be an act. For now I'm townreading him after the dust settles.
Slight Townie:
* Cantrip - Always wows me with his entrances. Decent questions. But somewhat pockety.
* Mike - I like his analysis of Tom but I don't like his Vezok read, and I'm still not convinced on Anak. A bit waffly, but that's probably town? Potential slips - counting? Wagon on him didn't look great.
Neutral:
* Ruma - Nothing posts. Lurking. Defending himself badly… But some town motivation seems to leak through here and there. Not the greatest, but something.
Scummy:
* Anak - Pretty focused on unimportant stuff.
* Dawning - Inactive, pretty ehh posting. Opposite reads.
* Vezok - Sleazy, I don't like any of his posts.
Ok so my original idea (I think I alluded to this and said I'd share it along with my anak townread, which… ~soon) was to just skip reading shadow and cantrip since I wouldn't have much confidence in any read I got there and… just look at their interactions unbiased by any other read.
I know they've got a version of what me and and shadow had going on where they've scummed together and beaten each other and have a sort of nuanced/whatever relationship that should be a rich source of delicious info nuggets.
But I didn't manage to keep unbiased and i think cantrip is scum.
He's… sort of doing the Carson Daly thing where he doesn't really have a personality of his own so he sort of takes on characteristics of whoever he's talking to. Like, his guest is a rapper so Carson is just a little hood. Proper Englishman on there and Carson gets posh.
In cantrips case, it's just a subtle difference. But cantrip, unlike Carson Daly, does have a personality. A strong one even. So I'm thinking it's like a playing to your audience/pockety type thing.
Shadow looks fearful/curious back at him, so if I want to pretend I'm still doing the thing I'm gonna call them w/v for now.
OMG a game on mtgs I forgot everything I knew it's been so long.
[b]Vote Rumanshi[\b]
Well, as reads made in the first 20 posts of the game often do, this seems weaker than it was back then by comparison, but
I think the attitude in this and anak's other posts in this chunk is real.
As for why that matters...
Anak thinks of being town and being scum as vastly different things (huge contrast to me). And we were just scum together in a mash on MU. You can even see him reference that game a couple posts later, but it's as something irrelevant.
So, anak was trying to remember how to town. Which means he is.
I'm not gonna trust that over, like, real reasoning. But the rest of his play has more or less matched this and I'm still into it
Ok so my original idea (I think I alluded to this and said I'd share it along with my anak townread, which… ~soon) was to just skip reading shadow and cantrip since I wouldn't have much confidence in any read I got there and… just look at their interactions unbiased by any other read.
I know they've got a version of what me and and shadow had going on where they've scummed together and beaten each other and have a sort of nuanced/whatever relationship that should be a rich source of delicious info nuggets.
But I didn't manage to keep unbiased and i think cantrip is scum.
He's… sort of doing the Carson Daly thing where he doesn't really have a personality of his own so he sort of takes on characteristics of whoever he's talking to. Like, his guest is a rapper so Carson is just a little hood. Proper Englishman on there and Carson gets posh.
In cantrips case, it's just a subtle difference. But cantrip, unlike Carson Daly, does have a personality. A strong one even. So I'm thinking it's like a playing to your audience/pockety type thing.
Shadow looks fearful/curious back at him, so if I want to pretend I'm still doing the thing I'm gonna call them w/v for now.
Spicy! I’m gonna need to reread Cantrip when I have some time, but in the meantime, if we lynched him and he flips town, what does that do to your reads?
OMG a game on mtgs I forgot everything I knew it's been so long.
[b]Vote Rumanshi[\b]
Well, as reads made in the first 20 posts of the game often do, this seems weaker than it was back then by comparison, but
I think the attitude in this and anak's other posts in this chunk is real.
As for why that matters...
Anak thinks of being town and being scum as vastly different things (huge contrast to me). And we were just scum together in a mash on MU. You can even see him reference that game a couple posts later, but it's as something irrelevant.
So, anak was trying to remember how to town. Which means he is.
I'm not gonna trust that over, like, real reasoning. But the rest of his play has more or less matched this and I'm still into it
Hmm, I kind of expected something with a little more...meat to it, but I can squint and see what you’re saying.
What do you make of him this game? Like nothing he’s written has stood out to me at all.
First off, IMO pressure is claim range. If Cantrip doesn't want that, given that a bunch of "wagons" are at L-3, that's kinda concerning.
I'm concerned about Anak, but I mostly want him to post content so I can get a better feel for him. Right now I really only have him attacking Mikey because of stats. There's plenty of time to apply more pressure if he doesn't deliver.
Quote from Osie »
Current Reads:
So I kinda expected to see actual POE (Process of Elimination, which I was a little concerned as to how you could have that D1, no flips), but reads are good, instead. I'm mostly cool with your reads, too, except I'd put Vezok higher and downgrade Tom and Shadow to slight townleans.
But I didn't manage to keep unbiased and i think cantrip is scum.
Always stay spicy, Tom.
Quote from Tom »
He's… sort of doing the Carson Daly thing where he doesn't really have a personality of his own so he sort of takes on characteristics of whoever he's talking to. Like, his guest is a rapper so Carson is just a little hood. Proper Englishman on there and Carson gets posh.
In cantrips case, it's just a subtle difference. But cantrip, unlike Carson Daly, does have a personality. A strong one even. So I'm thinking it's like a playing to your audience/pockety type thing.
So you compare me to Carson Daly (which I take as mostly a compliment), but then you say I'm better because I have personality....
But seriously, I don't know what you're talking about. I feel like I'm being no more or less pockety than normal; can you explain the difference (or show how my personality is absent )?
OMG a game on mtgs I forgot everything I knew it's been so long.
[b]Vote Rumanshi[\b]
Anak thinks of being town and being scum as vastly different things (huge contrast to me). And we were just scum together in a mash on MU. You can even see him reference that game a couple posts later, but it's as something irrelevant.
So, anak was trying to remember how to town. Which means he is.
I saw that, too, but dismissed it because he specifies "on mtgs", which I took to mean "it's been a while since I played [as either alignment] on mtgs; how do I even". Not "it's been a while since I played [town]; how do I even". Which makes sense, since his last game here was Haiku (started November, ended mid-January). I'd have to squint really hard to see that as a towntell.
@Dawning: I read your most recent post and realized I have practically zero mental picture of you, your mindstate, or your suspects. So I read your ISO. You suspect Emcee and Osie (no longer Tom) and think Ruman and Shadow are town, with me, Anak, and Vezok all leantown reads. What from Zero Escape is making you think Shadow is town? I'll warn you that Shadow is very good as scum (although I suspect he would issue the same warning about me). What do you like about Anak? I like your take on Vezok's unvote of Emcee.
my vote on Emcee was rvs and a slight push on my suspicions. since then, I did not like the way he deflected things. my suspects are still in the range of Emcee/Osie/Tom, but I've put Tom back to neutral since. if Emcee should be given the benefit of doubt, then I'll be voting Osie. I don't have Cantrip/Anak/Vezok as townreads yet, just neutral. so, there are my reads.
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townish: Rumanshi/Shadow
neutral: Cantrip/Anak/Vezok/Tom
scummy: Emcee/Osie
not sure if I got everyone.. chances of my reads being right are at least 1/3, 2/3 at best, from track record <- that's part of the reason I named 3 suspects.
----------
as stated before, I was talking about Zero Escape and Shadow in terms of exposure, not alignment. I have a better idea of his mindset than others, but nothing explicitly strikes me as town or scum play. from that mindset, Shadow has similarities to my playstyle in terms of aggression, so it helps my confidence in reading him. as for what I think makes him town here, he hasn't been trying to latch onto faults, which is somewhat similar to my take on Vezok's no-longer-Emcee vote. (my scumgame is quite reliant on being nitpicky lol)
Anak is in neutral, so he can go either way for me. I do like his response to Tom's vote on him though (said he hasn't played in a while). scum don't easily give bad excuses, since it'll be troublesome later on. the thing is, I don't have a good idea of his playstyle yet to know if he's prone to do this as either alignment.
That Mikey wagon hurts because I'm pretty confident there's at least 1 scum there.
That means Mikey is probably town... Hmm.
do you see anything specific about Emcee that says town? bouncing it off the fact that others could be scum isn't a good explanation, since even scum can do that.
Mostly POE and a little bit of townie frustration like in 231.
I see. he didn't display any frustration until the wagon built on him though. from your statement, it seems you looked at Emcee's wagon before townreading him. shouldn't you have townread him first, before looking at his wagon, since you saw townie frustration?
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Cantrip I have on more than one occasion as town made posts attempting to keep myself alive, or draw some sort of attention or nightkill instead of scumhunt. While scumhunting wasn't the main focus, it was present, but I feel like town can eschew that more often than you are considering. Also, my apologies you referenced having an agenda to Mikey instead of me, mixed it up.
I have Tom in an evaluate later category, not Mikey. Mikey I fully intend to have solved long before then. And I know you were being humorous, and you're correct that I wouldn't say I planned on lurking if I was scum, but I wouldn't do that if I was town either.
@Shadow Tom's read comes off as fairly genuine to me. He knows and understands how I think about the game better than literally anyone, for better or worse. I don't intend to think of town and scum as so different things, but it comes off that way, and to pick up on that and apply that to this situation reads as a genuine attempt to glean my alignment. And because its Tom, its totally in his wheelhouse to try and do this in the very first post, for the lols.
The big problem with this is that Tom knows how I think, and could apply that as scum to get me to buy in, and could sound genuine in doing so. So while I believe the read of me has is genuine, I don't necessarily believe it makes Tom town. This is a giant glass of wine though, and as a result makes me just want to leave really evaluating Tom until later when there is a full game of actions and such to assist.
Sorry @Mikey I missed your question earlier, nitpickyness is not inherently scummy. Mafia is a game where the devil is in the details, and a lot of people can post many words that all read fairly the same. When a majority of words are normal and not very alignment indicative, its the words and posts that are weird that call out to me. Sometimes weird like that is simply just innocently weird, but there are times when that's not the case.
In your case, I saw someone make a comment about the odds of someone being scum. This would be something easy to slip up on, and the fact that your "math" was so off caught my attention to the point of wondering if I could infer something else from it. Which I did, that subconsciously you were looking for 1 scum in 9, and that you were subconsciously looking for 1 scum because you yourself were the other.
That't not hugely alignment indicative, and I wouldn't really fight you on that, but at this point in the game its good enough for me to go with.
Reads of the game currently:
Town
Me
Lean Town
Cantrip: I feel like I have no idea how to read you, you post a lot of things, mainly they are level headed and well reasoned, and never get in your own way. Seems like I always think you're town regardless of what you wind up being. Like the start, but keeping one eye open.
DBS: Hasn't posted a ton, but what has been posted is fairly well articulated, and their view of the game is close to mine, which has to be townie right?
Shadow: Same old Shadow, asking people questions into their mindset and trying to figure out what people are saying to really solve the game. Wouldn't be surprised if Shadow winds up being scum, just because.
Neutrak
Tom: Maybe slightly town, but really reserving judgment for later. Posting your read of me to appease others is also good.
Rumanishi: Need to spend more time reading, having a hard time remembering anything of significance. This may be more my fault than Ruma's, so want to try and fix myself before claiming that they are just lurking.
Lean Scum
Vezok: Jumping around with their vote and trying to appear to be spicy in their play without really explaining anything until prompted by others.
Osie: Desire to appear very helpful and beneficial to the town, almost artificially so.
Mikey: Weirdness around looking for one scum and screwing up math in the process.
I see. he didn't display any frustration until the wagon built on him though. from your statement, it seems you looked at Emcee's wagon before townreading him. shouldn't you have townread him first, before looking at his wagon, since you saw townie frustration?
I mean, I leaned both ways on him before the wagon and the wagon made me more certain.
@Dawning: Pretend you have a dayvig shot you have to use today, but if you shoot town, you die instead. Who do you target?
missed this. as vig, I would prefer shooting those who're difficult to read + lynch. out of my suspects, I don't suspect Tom much, so that would be Osie. Emcee should be easy to figure out over time, and even make a case on.
I see. he didn't display any frustration until the wagon built on him though. from your statement, it seems you looked at Emcee's wagon before townreading him. shouldn't you have townread him first, before looking at his wagon, since you saw townie frustration?
I mean, I leaned both ways on him before the wagon and the wagon made me more certain.
ok. if you were leaning both ways on him to begin with, where did that confidence-there-is-scum read originate from? how can you be so sure there is scum on someone you yourself aren't even sure of?
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Hmm, I kind of expected something with a little more...meat to it, but I can squint and see what you’re saying.
What do you make of him this game? Like nothing he’s written has stood out to me at all.
@Anak: thoughts on this read?
seriously?
I know I just explained it but I made it, like, post 20
This game, eh... "Remembering how to town" only works if he eventually remembers. If I think anak might be scum I assure you I will say so
my suspects are still in the range of Emcee/Osie/Tom, but I've put Tom back to neutral since. if Emcee should be given the benefit of doubt, then I'll be voting Osie. I don't have Cantrip/Anak/Vezok as townreads yet, just neutral. so, there are my reads.
----------
townish: Rumanshi/Shadow
neutral: Cantrip/Anak/Vezok/Tom
scummy: Emcee/Osie
How does your read of me this game reflect your declaration of my meta in the last game we played together?
@Dawning: Pretend you have a dayvig shot you have to use today, but if you shoot town, you die instead. Who do you target?
missed this. as vig, I would prefer shooting those who're difficult to read + lynch. out of my suspects, I don't suspect Tom much, so that would be Osie. Emcee should be easy to figure out over time, and even make a case on.
I see. he didn't display any frustration until the wagon built on him though. from your statement, it seems you looked at Emcee's wagon before townreading him. shouldn't you have townread him first, before looking at his wagon, since you saw townie frustration?
I mean, I leaned both ways on him before the wagon and the wagon made me more certain.
ok. if you were leaning both ways on him to begin with, where did that confidence-there-is-scum read originate from? how can you be so sure there is scum on someone you yourself aren't even sure of?
When you're town, and the bottom 3 out of 9 people in your reads are literally all on a wagon that you're not sure about, that's generally a sign that at least 1 of the people on the wagon is scum, and that the person being wagoned is town. Unless I just suck at this game.
So there's been like 3 times where rumanshi slipped or TMIed or something and then I read it again and it wasn't but that's the kind of vibe he's still giving me.
I think anak/shadow/mikey are town.
Cantrip and ruma in the negative.
What a joke. Each person who I mentioned a scumread on jumping on my wagon (with the exception of Anak, who just parked his RVS vote on me and then thought up vague reasons afterwords). That's just ridiculous.
I guess I'm in claim range, though. I'm vanilla town.
Well, I'm hopeful that 2 scum wouldn't be crazy enough jump on a wagon together that isn't likely to go anywhere. So probably no more than 1 scum in Dawning/Vezok/Anak.
not because I think they're acting towny or anything, but their playstyle to me feels like one that can be solved without having to kill them and see their flip
#247; Fair analysis there, dawning. Though I enjoy poking certain peoples buttons the most
#248; Sorry, but this site lags when I try and do quotes and links. ;-; In reaction to 1; It's hmm. because Osie's been all over the place with his reads on me. In reaction to 2, was your opinion on osie. It wasn't anything important, just something I would consider.
#249; I'm watching you all.
$250; I don't see any indicators here. Not sure about the lurking comment,.
#251; Admittedly a valid point.
#252; Town reaction? Possibly?
#253; First of all, I was goading Mikey as he said he was going to tunnel me. It didn't sit well that he didn't do it. If you say you're going to do something, do it.
#255; I don't have much to say about this, but it's interesting to consider a lack of self-awareness. Though, this should be done for everyone, right?
#256; I was actually thinking Mikey realised tunnelling me would not get me where he wanted to be, so he gave up on it. Scum would rather pretend it never happened then to admit they were wrong. His reactions following though, make it less than likely.
#257; That fluctuation in read right there. What changed?
#258; I mean, what? I don't really get it...
#269; This makes a little more sense.
#260; This has weird feels.
#261; Isn't not standing out a necessary feat for scum?
#262/#263; Not relevant to me right now.
#264; Hmmm... He only gave an 8/10. Obvious scum right there.
#265; A promise made is a promise kept.
#267; I'm not sure how I feel about your reads. Osie/Emcee seems like it would be a T/S rather than a S/S situation.
#268; Why?
#269; It's an edit...
#270; Sorry that you feel that way :/ I've been trying my best.
#271; I dislike posts like these. Have half a scum bun.
#272; Wagon's confirming opinions... Only works sometimes.
#273; Hypothetical's don't really help reads, though this seems genuine.
#274; *shrugs*
#275; Would a scum admit they barely have reads? This is wine I don't want to drink.
#276; I dislike this post regarding previous games a lot. Meta is only indicative sometimes. Have half a scum bun.
#277; ...
#278; I like this. I'll take that scum bun back.
#279; What are you on about?
#281; A vanilla town claim... But Emcee in #282 is right, it should be easy to clear you through playstyle. Could the Emcee/Osie scumteam be a valid thought now? I don't think so.
#283; I'll be waiting for your thoughts/
#284; I don't think a scum-team would interact like this.
#285; Makes sense.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
How does your read of me this game reflect your declaration of my meta in the last game we played together?
you mean this? "talks as if the sun doesnt exist"
yeah that's the read I have on you in this game. your confident entrance is stubborn, just like that summary.
When you're town, and the bottom 3 out of 9 people in your reads are literally all on a wagon that you're not sure about, that's generally a sign that at least 1 of the people on the wagon is scum, and that the person being wagoned is town. Unless I just suck at this game.
Cantrip was the lowest in your 1st post. if we talk about out-of-order, then you had Tom/Rumanshi for scum, while Emcee/Dawn/Cantrip were all neutral.
What a joke. Each person who I mentioned a scumread on jumping on my wagon (with the exception of Anak, who just parked his RVS vote on me and then thought up vague reasons afterwords). That's just ridiculous.
it isn't ridiculous coming from me as I suspected you since #144, and on looking back you only said I "could go either way".
I guess I'm in claim range, though. I'm vanilla town.
your claim can't be proven.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
#247; Fair analysis there, dawning. Though I enjoy poking certain peoples buttons the most
I see. still a decent analysis I guess.
#267; I'm not sure how I feel about your reads. Osie/Emcee seems like it would be a T/S rather than a S/S situation.
there's a good 1/3 chance that I am right, so yes that could be the case. Osie and Emcee covering each other is off-putting though. would both be town? I'm inclined to think that one is acting on an informed mindset. Osie claimed VT too, which means the confidence cannot be backed up by his own night action (unless he is scum).
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
How does your read of me this game reflect your declaration of my meta in the last game we played together?
you mean this? "talks as if the sun doesnt exist"
yeah that's the read I have on you in this game. your confident entrance is stubborn, just like that summary.
I have no idea what I'm doing this game... It's kinda frustrating.
#247; Fair analysis there, dawning. Though I enjoy poking certain peoples buttons the most
I see. still a decent analysis I guess.
#267; I'm not sure how I feel about your reads. Osie/Emcee seems like it would be a T/S rather than a S/S situation.
there's a good 1/3 chance that I am right, so yes that could be the case. Osie and Emcee covering each other is off-putting though. would both be town? I'm inclined to think that one is acting on an informed mindset. Osie claimed VT too, which means the confidence cannot be backed up by his own night action (unless he is scum).
Hmmm.... You are right. I found it off-putting, but if I were to venture a guess, Emcee's is natural whereas Osie's is calculated. This is taking Emcee's previous actions into account.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Osie town reading me just because suspicion of scum on my wagon seems a little weird to me but it doesn't seem like something a wolf would do especially when one is two votes away from insta. Like in that instance osie would just push more on my wagon and try to get me lynched, so them not doing so means I think they're town here and just overth8inking things (it doesn't really matter if there's scum on my wagon since bussing can be a thing, it shouldn't affect your scum read on me)
I have no clue if I'm right or not, but I still think it's a better call to find a different target
like rumanshi
he's scummy
I think it's waffly as heck, but I'm like slight townreading that bit. It's the core of my issues with Ruma this game, in that a couple of the things that he's doing feel townie, but at the same time he's ringing alarm bells, and not in the usual obnoxious way that he does as a town player.
I think I really like the bolded goldilocks read from osi? It's like, "scummy but not as scummy as he acts as town"
Kinda feels like that should be a scumread overall but osi is at least saying that's a negative afaict.
@dawn can you give me a confusing paragraph about this relationship/the meta implied here? I'd think you'd be the most qualified (if there's other MAL peeps here feel free to answer)
Ok I've been through all the pages I was gonna do a quote stripe thing but I really don't want to.
Anak I still think is town, but part of that is my expectations for later, and I will gleefully turn on him if he doesn't meet them.
Mikey... Kinda same thing really. Think I've got a bead on his playstyle, and if that proves right as the game goes on this has been a solidly townie day 1 so far.
Shadow is asking good, pertinent questions, is especially cautious around the players he would most need to fool. Think that's a solid town indicator, but... It's shadow. I certainly wouldn't defend him, or even look at a shadow wagon with anything but curiosity.
Think of also like to townread osi here, pending answers to that last post or some understanding of the interplay with ruma.
I do like the lightfootedness of his reads. Feels like scum that was clearly forcing reads as much as osi is would be a bit more married to them/stagnant
Players not mentioned above or below are just there for me. I could force something out and end up writing a paragraph or two on any of them (more like 5 on dawn tbh) but they wouldn't really mean anything
Vezok... now that I know he was scum in pirates is vaguely scum by meta but I don't really know his town game. I do think he should have had more oomph on reads on the townies from that game (me, shadow, dawn maybe) having just spent some months watching us town, but that's pretty eh when the game just ended and he might have been actively avoiding that.
Ruma is really just a feel that he knows too much, but if osi's goldilocks read there is valid it seems like a decent scum indicator.
Gonna give him the benefit of the doubt that the "post numbers + generic comments about them" is just a thing he's doing and not, like, intentionally impossible to follow on mobile or quote effectively. But the fact he's responding to ~every post, even the ones he himself says mean nothing, and >90% of them are such nonspecific responses there's no way to tell what post or even person they are about without looking just makes it look like he's doing a "how to play mafia" worksheet. Think those posts are mostly garbage busywork.
Cantrip... already talked about the playing to an audience thing. Got some more questions about it, but it's literally just me trying to explain a gut read in a way people might understand. And his response to it was... well it was scummy. He's not trying to figure out if I'm scum pushing him with it if he really doesn't understand (mitigated by him apparently townreading me for some reason). But if that's so, the response would be more about changing my mind than just sort of... noting that it makes no sense then pretending it didn't happen.
I explained that the numbers were because of the lag this site gives me trying to link or quote.
I respond to every post, because every post has value. As I'm not around when they are made, I try and offer my opinions afterwards. If you think this is scummy, whatever. *shrugs*
Mikey's latest post feels town. Going to consider who is scummiest now.
unvote
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
So I had a bit of a rough day and didn't get around to things. Life is frustrating some times. Oh well.
Doing a much quicker set of reads from ISO rereading (Going from most to least active players):
I like Tom's attitude this game. #151 and #258, #259 also don't seem as likely to come from scum Tom. As I mentioned earlier, I like his uncertainty on me, though he certainly could be (and seems to be) playing it up a bit. Lots of mindmeld here as well. Light townread.
Shadow is cautious, especially in regards to me. He straight-out doesn't seem to know what he thinks of me this game. He's acting pretty casual in general; I think this is him trying to shore up his town game in 2018. Light townread.
Mikey is laidback. Lots of interaction analysis, which I like a lot, because it's something I've been wanting to think more about as either alignment. Most of his posts are content, which looks good. I'm a little concerned that he's not thinking about enough different people (though this could just be tunnel-vision to a degree), and the counting slip is really bad-looking. But I see what Tom is seeing; his posts are generally good. After looking at another game of his, meta-readers would probably put him higher in their reads, but I am not one of those. I think without the counting slip I might put him at a townread, for now I'm at Townlean.
ISO'ing Ruma is a bit annoying because of the long posts of numbers without quotes or links to posts. Pretty ehh response to Anak in #148, kinda white knighting for Mikey there. His net play is just different from what I've seen from him, but then again his only game here was flaily scum and out of the two games I saw from him over on MAL, the TvT one was what I would consider to be a really bad town game on his part, and the other one, I was scum actively trying to make him look bad, so YMMV. I don't agree with some of his reads, and I feel like he's kinda just spouting words at times. He doesn't have a tendency to be this prolific, so while on the one hand I like it, on the other hand, it's a little concerning. I've done this as town, so I'm not completely convinced that it's problematic, and the formatting is probably throwing me off... I don't like that his read on me seems to be somewhat inorganic. Overall, I'm not sure what to think here. I don't have a hard scumread or a hard townread. Neutral
Vezok is flipping around like a fish out of water. We get things like hard reads on wine, voting for someone while agreeing with someone else saying that person is town, and a ton of putting things off or not wanting to put in the work. Also, overall, to quote DV from another game, his macro doesn't match his micro. One example of this is with #75 and #103, where he tries to bait Shadow, then admits to it, but doesn't pursue it, instead going somewhere else. He's just saying stuff, trying to look like he's doing things. Scumread.
Cantrip's reads and questions both feel real. I'm not happy about the pockety behavior and I'm not happy about the Anak thing, or that I got pulled off of Vezok to be light pressure instead of claim pressure. And Cantrip at least superficially fits into several worlds. But I think he's net town. His reads on me and Mikey are a bit too subtle for scum, IMO. Light townread.
Anak is self-centered (#250), and his arguments are angleshooty (#154, #53). Anak does not look good to me this game in the slightest. Strong Scumread.
Dawning I have a bit more beef with right now for OoG than Ruma. But history aside, I was noticing earlier that she wasn't posting much. And her response is that she's been fairly inactive most games here, which isn't really true of Zero Escape. But okay, looking at the content of her posts, she's reading people's motivations (#198, #247). I like this. A lot. Townlean with potential for townread under certain yet-to-be-seen conditions.
Mostly POE and a little bit of townie frustration like in 231.
Sigh
I suppose I could...
I'm concerned that you're being pockety this game, Cantrip, but I'll roll with it for now.
Vote: Anaklusmos
Rumanshi in 228 goads Mikey to tunnel him, but it seems done to encourage dialogue. Mikey sounds like he believes he's Legit Hoisted Rumanshi By His Own Petard(tm) in 230. But then Mikey says that a) he (Mikey) hasn't done a good job pressuring Rumanshi and b) if he (Mikey) were scum, he'd have his partner pressuring Rumanshi. So it sorta feels like Mikey is also playing to his own self-admitted scum behavior. And when would scum ever attack someone then behave in a way that mimics the behavior they were attacking that someone for? And then in 232, Rumanshi takes Mikey's "so you were lying" comment as a serious attack. There's a sincerity in that knee-jerk response that I think is hard to fake.
I will cut you.
...ok, I have returned my knife to its sheath. ;p
In my experience, rarely. Wild cards like Seppel and Tom sometimes do, and sometimes a player will go off on a meta-mafia tangent or a "this is my deeply held belief about mafia how dare you question it" tangent, but most the time, town just wants to scumhunt.
Where did I say you were pushing an agenda?? I'm not getting an agenda from you. Rather, I feel like you're opting to let a nitpick do all the hard work for you, which I've seen come from scum in the past. (Don't ask me for specifics, please. I know I've seen it, but I'm not at a point where I'll be able to track down examples.)
You're saying you have Mikey in an "evaluate later" category?
My accusation was a little tongue in cheek. The point being that if you're scum, you'd never admit to planning to lurk. I'm glad, however, to get something more from you. While you're here, can we get some reads (preferably with reasons)?
Hmm, wasn't my intent to get him to claim range.
Unvote
He still needs to come post content.
Anaklusmos: shadowlancerx, osieorb18 (L-3)
Cantripmancer: (L-5)
dawningbluesky: (L-5)
Emcee_Mikey: dawningbluesky, Rumanshi (L-3)
osieorb18: Anaklusmos, vezokpiraka (L-3)
Rumanshi: Emcee_Mikey, tomsloger (L-3)
shadowlancerx: (L-5)
tomsloger: (L-5)
vezokpiraka: (L-5)
Not Voting:
Cantripmancer
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
Deadline is 30 March 2018.
Mod Notes:
tomsloger v/la until Saturday 24 March
Wrt Tom: I am curious when his secret read on you is, because I do think he is very good at reading you, but it’s more in the background than the foreground.
And yes, the “wait and see” approach is typically the best approach when trying to read Tom. Eeeehhhhh, talk to me about your concern that Cantrip is being pockety; and if you’re really concerned with this, why are you going along with him anyway? Do you think pockety Cantrip is scum!cantrip? The way you’d phrased a post talking about him sounded like you had, and if so I was going to have you compare and contrast his play, but never mind. What does that even mean? Regarding attacking someone then doing the same thing, that could be a lack of self awareness, but okay.
I dunno, I just....neither one of them has struck me as individually that townie, but I can kinda see what you’re saying. At the very least it’s something I’ll keep my eye on. Baby (your image doesn’t come through for me unless I have a photobucket account )
You’ve asked at least 3 people to come vote him with you, with claim range at 3 total, surely you considered the possibility?
Yeah, because I am not Tom and therefore terrible at posting visual media in thread. Let me try again. Osie said "I'm concerned that you're being pockety this game, Cantrip, but I'll roll with it for now." And I said:
I asked Tom and he said nah. I asked for ONE of you and Osie to join me. But I'm not surprised, hence the unvote and lack of any real concern about Osie's vote.
Thread feels a little dead. While I'm waiting for Anak, let's shake things up.
@Dawning: Pretend you have a dayvig shot you have to use today, but if you shoot town, you die instead. Who do you target?
@Osie: Several times you've referenced your POE as reasoning behind choices. Can you go into detail as to what that POE currently looks like?
@Rumanshi: Take a moment to think through this as though you were scum!Mikey. What purpose does scum!Mikey have behind saying he's going to tunnel you all Day, then not tunneling you until you call him out on it, then doing a terrible job of tunneling? How does that get scum!Mikey closer to his wincon?
@Mikey: In 230 you say that Rumanshi "tries to pass off RVS as actual reads". I don't think that Rumanshi sees what you see. Can you be explicit? Which specific part(s) of the post you quoted are you referring to?
Current Reads:
I know they've got a version of what me and and shadow had going on where they've scummed together and beaten each other and have a sort of nuanced/whatever relationship that should be a rich source of delicious info nuggets.
But I didn't manage to keep unbiased and i think cantrip is scum.
He's… sort of doing the Carson Daly thing where he doesn't really have a personality of his own so he sort of takes on characteristics of whoever he's talking to. Like, his guest is a rapper so Carson is just a little hood. Proper Englishman on there and Carson gets posh.
In cantrips case, it's just a subtle difference. But cantrip, unlike Carson Daly, does have a personality. A strong one even. So I'm thinking it's like a playing to your audience/pockety type thing.
Shadow looks fearful/curious back at him, so if I want to pretend I'm still doing the thing I'm gonna call them w/v for now.
Well, as reads made in the first 20 posts of the game often do, this seems weaker than it was back then by comparison, but
I think the attitude in this and anak's other posts in this chunk is real.
As for why that matters...
Anak thinks of being town and being scum as vastly different things (huge contrast to me). And we were just scum together in a mash on MU. You can even see him reference that game a couple posts later, but it's as something irrelevant.
So, anak was trying to remember how to town. Which means he is.
I'm not gonna trust that over, like, real reasoning. But the rest of his play has more or less matched this and I'm still into it
What do you make of him this game? Like nothing he’s written has stood out to me at all.
@Anak: thoughts on this read?
@Osie: Excuse me, why am I a meanie pants?
So I kinda expected to see actual POE (Process of Elimination, which I was a little concerned as to how you could have that D1, no flips), but reads are good, instead. I'm mostly cool with your reads, too, except I'd put Vezok higher and downgrade Tom and Shadow to slight townleans.
Always stay spicy, Tom.
So you compare me to Carson Daly (which I take as mostly a compliment), but then you say I'm better because I have personality....
But seriously, I don't know what you're talking about. I feel like I'm being no more or less pockety than normal; can you explain the difference (or show how my personality is absent )?
I saw that, too, but dismissed it because he specifies "on mtgs", which I took to mean "it's been a while since I played [as either alignment] on mtgs; how do I even". Not "it's been a while since I played [town]; how do I even". Which makes sense, since his last game here was Haiku (started November, ended mid-January). I'd have to squint really hard to see that as a towntell.
8/10, would game with this playerbase again.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
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townish: Rumanshi/Shadow
neutral: Cantrip/Anak/Vezok/Tom
scummy: Emcee/Osie
not sure if I got everyone.. chances of my reads being right are at least 1/3, 2/3 at best, from track record <- that's part of the reason I named 3 suspects.
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as stated before, I was talking about Zero Escape and Shadow in terms of exposure, not alignment. I have a better idea of his mindset than others, but nothing explicitly strikes me as town or scum play. from that mindset, Shadow has similarities to my playstyle in terms of aggression, so it helps my confidence in reading him. as for what I think makes him town here, he hasn't been trying to latch onto faults, which is somewhat similar to my take on Vezok's no-longer-Emcee vote. (my scumgame is quite reliant on being nitpicky lol)
Anak is in neutral, so he can go either way for me. I do like his response to Tom's vote on him though (said he hasn't played in a while). scum don't easily give bad excuses, since it'll be troublesome later on. the thing is, I don't have a good idea of his playstyle yet to know if he's prone to do this as either alignment.
I see. he didn't display any frustration until the wagon built on him though. from your statement, it seems you looked at Emcee's wagon before townreading him. shouldn't you have townread him first, before looking at his wagon, since you saw townie frustration?
Be grateful, always."
if Emcee isn't happening. I hope this does.
Be grateful, always."
*also quite
Be grateful, always."
I have Tom in an evaluate later category, not Mikey. Mikey I fully intend to have solved long before then. And I know you were being humorous, and you're correct that I wouldn't say I planned on lurking if I was scum, but I wouldn't do that if I was town either.
@Shadow Tom's read comes off as fairly genuine to me. He knows and understands how I think about the game better than literally anyone, for better or worse. I don't intend to think of town and scum as so different things, but it comes off that way, and to pick up on that and apply that to this situation reads as a genuine attempt to glean my alignment. And because its Tom, its totally in his wheelhouse to try and do this in the very first post, for the lols.
The big problem with this is that Tom knows how I think, and could apply that as scum to get me to buy in, and could sound genuine in doing so. So while I believe the read of me has is genuine, I don't necessarily believe it makes Tom town. This is a giant glass of wine though, and as a result makes me just want to leave really evaluating Tom until later when there is a full game of actions and such to assist.
Sorry @Mikey I missed your question earlier, nitpickyness is not inherently scummy. Mafia is a game where the devil is in the details, and a lot of people can post many words that all read fairly the same. When a majority of words are normal and not very alignment indicative, its the words and posts that are weird that call out to me. Sometimes weird like that is simply just innocently weird, but there are times when that's not the case.
In your case, I saw someone make a comment about the odds of someone being scum. This would be something easy to slip up on, and the fact that your "math" was so off caught my attention to the point of wondering if I could infer something else from it. Which I did, that subconsciously you were looking for 1 scum in 9, and that you were subconsciously looking for 1 scum because you yourself were the other.
That't not hugely alignment indicative, and I wouldn't really fight you on that, but at this point in the game its good enough for me to go with.
Reads of the game currently:
Town
Me
Lean Town
Cantrip: I feel like I have no idea how to read you, you post a lot of things, mainly they are level headed and well reasoned, and never get in your own way. Seems like I always think you're town regardless of what you wind up being. Like the start, but keeping one eye open.
DBS: Hasn't posted a ton, but what has been posted is fairly well articulated, and their view of the game is close to mine, which has to be townie right?
Shadow: Same old Shadow, asking people questions into their mindset and trying to figure out what people are saying to really solve the game. Wouldn't be surprised if Shadow winds up being scum, just because.
Neutrak
Tom: Maybe slightly town, but really reserving judgment for later. Posting your read of me to appease others is also good.
Rumanishi: Need to spend more time reading, having a hard time remembering anything of significance. This may be more my fault than Ruma's, so want to try and fix myself before claiming that they are just lurking.
Lean Scum
Vezok: Jumping around with their vote and trying to appear to be spicy in their play without really explaining anything until prompted by others.
Osie: Desire to appear very helpful and beneficial to the town, almost artificially so.
Mikey: Weirdness around looking for one scum and screwing up math in the process.
I like his read on anak
his read on anak has lots of merit
I'm going to keep my town reads on these two
I mean, I leaned both ways on him before the wagon and the wagon made me more certain.
ok. if you were leaning both ways on him to begin with, where did that confidence-there-is-scum read originate from? how can you be so sure there is scum on someone you yourself aren't even sure of?
Be grateful, always."
You know what you did.
I barely have reads much less connective ones
seriously?
I know I just explained it but I made it, like, post 20
This game, eh... "Remembering how to town" only works if he eventually remembers. If I think anak might be scum I assure you I will say so
How does your read of me this game reflect your declaration of my meta in the last game we played together?
That seems to be normal...
No read.
When you're town, and the bottom 3 out of 9 people in your reads are literally all on a wagon that you're not sure about, that's generally a sign that at least 1 of the people on the wagon is scum, and that the person being wagoned is town. Unless I just suck at this game.
I think anak/shadow/mikey are town.
Cantrip and ruma in the negative.
No other reads that I can think of right now.
See y'all on Sunday prolly
Anaklusmos: shadowlancerx, osieorb18 (L-3)
Cantripmancer: (L-5)
dawningbluesky: (L-5)
Emcee_Mikey: Rumanshi (L-4)
osieorb18: Anaklusmos, vezokpiraka, dawningbluesky (L-2)
Rumanshi: Emcee_Mikey, tomsloger (L-3)
shadowlancerx: (L-5)
tomsloger: (L-5)
vezokpiraka: (L-5)
Not Voting:
Cantripmancer
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
Deadline is 30 March 2018.
Mod Notes:
tomsloger v/la until Saturday 24 March
Rumanshi has been prodded
I guess I'm in claim range, though. I'm vanilla town.
Well, I'm hopeful that 2 scum wouldn't be crazy enough jump on a wagon together that isn't likely to go anywhere. So probably no more than 1 scum in Dawning/Vezok/Anak.
not because I think they're acting towny or anything, but their playstyle to me feels like one that can be solved without having to kill them and see their flip
Thinking about things. I'll post a larger general thoughts post tonight or tomorrow.
Because I don't have them written out or fully assembled, hence the unvote without revoting.
#248; Sorry, but this site lags when I try and do quotes and links. ;-; In reaction to 1; It's hmm. because Osie's been all over the place with his reads on me. In reaction to 2, was your opinion on osie. It wasn't anything important, just something I would consider.
#249; I'm watching you all.
$250; I don't see any indicators here. Not sure about the lurking comment,.
#251; Admittedly a valid point.
#252; Town reaction? Possibly?
#253; First of all, I was goading Mikey as he said he was going to tunnel me. It didn't sit well that he didn't do it. If you say you're going to do something, do it.
#255; I don't have much to say about this, but it's interesting to consider a lack of self-awareness. Though, this should be done for everyone, right?
#256; I was actually thinking Mikey realised tunnelling me would not get me where he wanted to be, so he gave up on it. Scum would rather pretend it never happened then to admit they were wrong. His reactions following though, make it less than likely.
#257; That fluctuation in read right there. What changed?
#258; I mean, what? I don't really get it...
#269; This makes a little more sense.
#260; This has weird feels.
#261; Isn't not standing out a necessary feat for scum?
#262/#263; Not relevant to me right now.
#264; Hmmm... He only gave an 8/10. Obvious scum right there.
#265; A promise made is a promise kept.
#267; I'm not sure how I feel about your reads. Osie/Emcee seems like it would be a T/S rather than a S/S situation.
#268; Why?
#269; It's an edit...
#270; Sorry that you feel that way :/ I've been trying my best.
#271; I dislike posts like these. Have half a scum bun.
#272; Wagon's confirming opinions... Only works sometimes.
#273; Hypothetical's don't really help reads, though this seems genuine.
#274; *shrugs*
#275; Would a scum admit they barely have reads? This is wine I don't want to drink.
#276; I dislike this post regarding previous games a lot. Meta is only indicative sometimes. Have half a scum bun.
#277; ...
#278; I like this. I'll take that scum bun back.
#279; What are you on about?
#281; A vanilla town claim... But Emcee in #282 is right, it should be easy to clear you through playstyle. Could the Emcee/Osie scumteam be a valid thought now? I don't think so.
#283; I'll be waiting for your thoughts/
#284; I don't think a scum-team would interact like this.
#285; Makes sense.
yeah that's the read I have on you in this game. your confident entrance is stubborn, just like that summary.
Cantrip was the lowest in your 1st post. if we talk about out-of-order, then you had Tom/Rumanshi for scum, while Emcee/Dawn/Cantrip were all neutral.
it isn't ridiculous coming from me as I suspected you since #144, and on looking back you only said I "could go either way".
your claim can't be proven.
Be grateful, always."
there's a good 1/3 chance that I am right, so yes that could be the case. Osie and Emcee covering each other is off-putting though. would both be town? I'm inclined to think that one is acting on an informed mindset. Osie claimed VT too, which means the confidence cannot be backed up by his own night action (unless he is scum).
Be grateful, always."
I have no idea what I'm doing this game... It's kinda frustrating.
But okay.
Hmmm.... You are right. I found it off-putting, but if I were to venture a guess, Emcee's is natural whereas Osie's is calculated. This is taking Emcee's previous actions into account.
I have no clue if I'm right or not, but I still think it's a better call to find a different target
like rumanshi
he's scummy
Just gonna reread from the beginning over the next couple hours, see what happens
I think I really like the bolded goldilocks read from osi? It's like, "scummy but not as scummy as he acts as town"
Kinda feels like that should be a scumread overall but osi is at least saying that's a negative afaict.
@dawn can you give me a confusing paragraph about this relationship/the meta implied here? I'd think you'd be the most qualified (if there's other MAL peeps here feel free to answer)
Anak I still think is town, but part of that is my expectations for later, and I will gleefully turn on him if he doesn't meet them.
Mikey... Kinda same thing really. Think I've got a bead on his playstyle, and if that proves right as the game goes on this has been a solidly townie day 1 so far.
Shadow is asking good, pertinent questions, is especially cautious around the players he would most need to fool. Think that's a solid town indicator, but... It's shadow. I certainly wouldn't defend him, or even look at a shadow wagon with anything but curiosity.
Think of also like to townread osi here, pending answers to that last post or some understanding of the interplay with ruma.
I do like the lightfootedness of his reads. Feels like scum that was clearly forcing reads as much as osi is would be a bit more married to them/stagnant
Players not mentioned above or below are just there for me. I could force something out and end up writing a paragraph or two on any of them (more like 5 on dawn tbh) but they wouldn't really mean anything
Vezok... now that I know he was scum in pirates is vaguely scum by meta but I don't really know his town game. I do think he should have had more oomph on reads on the townies from that game (me, shadow, dawn maybe) having just spent some months watching us town, but that's pretty eh when the game just ended and he might have been actively avoiding that.
Ruma is really just a feel that he knows too much, but if osi's goldilocks read there is valid it seems like a decent scum indicator.
Gonna give him the benefit of the doubt that the "post numbers + generic comments about them" is just a thing he's doing and not, like, intentionally impossible to follow on mobile or quote effectively. But the fact he's responding to ~every post, even the ones he himself says mean nothing, and >90% of them are such nonspecific responses there's no way to tell what post or even person they are about without looking just makes it look like he's doing a "how to play mafia" worksheet. Think those posts are mostly garbage busywork.
Cantrip... already talked about the playing to an audience thing. Got some more questions about it, but it's literally just me trying to explain a gut read in a way people might understand. And his response to it was... well it was scummy. He's not trying to figure out if I'm scum pushing him with it if he really doesn't understand (mitigated by him apparently townreading me for some reason). But if that's so, the response would be more about changing my mind than just sort of... noting that it makes no sense then pretending it didn't happen.
I respond to every post, because every post has value. As I'm not around when they are made, I try and offer my opinions afterwards. If you think this is scummy, whatever. *shrugs*
Mikey's latest post feels town. Going to consider who is scummiest now.
unvote
Doing a much quicker set of reads from ISO rereading (Going from most to least active players):
I like Tom's attitude this game. #151 and #258, #259 also don't seem as likely to come from scum Tom. As I mentioned earlier, I like his uncertainty on me, though he certainly could be (and seems to be) playing it up a bit. Lots of mindmeld here as well. Light townread.
Shadow is cautious, especially in regards to me. He straight-out doesn't seem to know what he thinks of me this game. He's acting pretty casual in general; I think this is him trying to shore up his town game in 2018. Light townread.
Mikey is laidback. Lots of interaction analysis, which I like a lot, because it's something I've been wanting to think more about as either alignment. Most of his posts are content, which looks good. I'm a little concerned that he's not thinking about enough different people (though this could just be tunnel-vision to a degree), and the counting slip is really bad-looking. But I see what Tom is seeing; his posts are generally good. After looking at another game of his, meta-readers would probably put him higher in their reads, but I am not one of those. I think without the counting slip I might put him at a townread, for now I'm at Townlean.
ISO'ing Ruma is a bit annoying because of the long posts of numbers without quotes or links to posts. Pretty ehh response to Anak in #148, kinda white knighting for Mikey there. His net play is just different from what I've seen from him, but then again his only game here was flaily scum and out of the two games I saw from him over on MAL, the TvT one was what I would consider to be a really bad town game on his part, and the other one, I was scum actively trying to make him look bad, so YMMV. I don't agree with some of his reads, and I feel like he's kinda just spouting words at times. He doesn't have a tendency to be this prolific, so while on the one hand I like it, on the other hand, it's a little concerning. I've done this as town, so I'm not completely convinced that it's problematic, and the formatting is probably throwing me off... I don't like that his read on me seems to be somewhat inorganic. Overall, I'm not sure what to think here. I don't have a hard scumread or a hard townread. Neutral
Vezok is flipping around like a fish out of water. We get things like hard reads on wine, voting for someone while agreeing with someone else saying that person is town, and a ton of putting things off or not wanting to put in the work. Also, overall, to quote DV from another game, his macro doesn't match his micro. One example of this is with #75 and #103, where he tries to bait Shadow, then admits to it, but doesn't pursue it, instead going somewhere else. He's just saying stuff, trying to look like he's doing things. Scumread.
Cantrip's reads and questions both feel real. I'm not happy about the pockety behavior and I'm not happy about the Anak thing, or that I got pulled off of Vezok to be light pressure instead of claim pressure. And Cantrip at least superficially fits into several worlds. But I think he's net town. His reads on me and Mikey are a bit too subtle for scum, IMO. Light townread.
Anak is self-centered (#250), and his arguments are angleshooty (#154, #53). Anak does not look good to me this game in the slightest. Strong Scumread.
Dawning I have a bit more beef with right now for OoG than Ruma. But history aside, I was noticing earlier that she wasn't posting much. And her response is that she's been fairly inactive most games here, which isn't really true of Zero Escape. But okay, looking at the content of her posts, she's reading people's motivations (#198, #247). I like this. A lot. Townlean with potential for townread under certain yet-to-be-seen conditions.