Oh dear, things have turned out worse. Well, if you're adamant about flipping me, I guess I can comply a little.
I'm not sure why you people don't understand that you are all scummy... As my level of information is limited, therefore anything I see is from the viewpoint of I am the only confirmed townie to myself. Scum, on the other hand, have a partnr to rely on.
P.S. This is why scum are less afraid of being lynched then town. Town tend to be afraid of dying as they only know they are innocent, and no further information. I know, in theory, it should be scum who are afraid, but in practice, town are very often the more vocal and defensive of the two.
Now, if anyone wanted to know the stupid plan, it was to get one person to claim a cop and a group who they were investigating, but not reveal which person they were targeting. The next day reveal the result, still not revealing who they targeted. The people in the group would then reveal what they should have been revealed as. Etc etc. It was a stupid, optimistic plan based on flawed reason and my idiocy.
If I am to die, then the two groupings that make the most sense to me are
Meteor / Tiger
Meteor / GJ.
The followup is Vaimes as scum (Idk How, but its the next likely option) with one of those three.
Given I am the most prominent lynch, I will now answer your questions, albeit in a fashion which shows my distaste for your scumifications of my attitude. Lets see how scum and town alike twist my words to justify their POV. Im looking forward to this.
P.S. I hope you like conspiracies.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Daily ten minutes. I am spent and lost in content, but that's my problem not yours.
I see some suspicion about me. Would like to know why. If I understand correctly Vaimes is gonna do an ISO of me, in which he already decided i am mafia in? Sounds very townie. Vaimes, you may not like my method, but I ask questions and analyze motives before I vote, so no I am not ready to vote you yet, and if you are really town I would appreciate of you cooperate instead of ignoring my questions (i.e Sarcasm question) or answering half-ass answers (i.e JT top town read). I would like you to complete the missing parta when you are doing my ISO.
@Silver why are you proposing for the miller to claim before Riku was forced to made his claim? Also, why no townie mentioned the miller shoulsn't say anything before Riku claims in response to this?
First thing when I come back for vacation gonna analyze JT and Riku latest posts.
If there is anything at me I missed I apologize, please post it again.
Since the lot of you the lot of you think #168 isn't worth answering or giving a thought, the answer may impact the way you all see Vaimes. I didn't want to explain why before, because I didn't want it to affect your view of Vaimes if it turns out the theory doesn't hold, but since nobody answered me, I'm going to assume the chances for that are low and therefore, we all thought Riku is only a single vote away from being lynched. If that is true, I believe this shows Vaimes in a very townie sort of way. He was the only one besides me and GJ, who were already voting for Riku, who posted before tom explained some votes do not count and placed Riku at 1 vote. Vaimes had the opportunity to supposedly hammer Riku. I only see 2 options, why he didn't; either A), Vaimes and Riku are both scum and Vaimes doesn't want to hammer his scum buddy yet; or B), Vaimes is town, uncertain of Riku, and doesn't decide to hammer. I certainly don't see the possibility of Riku being town and Vaimes being scum.
Since I believe Riku is scum (more on that in a bit), that has little effect on my view of Vaimes (#204 makes me edgy), but it might have a bigger one for you, who believe Riku could be town.
I'm not sure why you people don't understand that you are all scummy... As my level of information is limited, therefore anything I see is from the viewpoint of I am the only confirmed townie to myself. Scum, on the other hand, have a partnr to rely on.
Nobody said we don't understand, afaik. And you are saying we should give you town cred for having no town reads, whilst people with town reads are scummy.
P.S. This is why scum are less afraid of being lynched then town. Town tend to be afraid of dying as they only know they are innocent, and no further information. I know, in theory, it should be scum who are afraid, but in practice, town are very often the more vocal and defensive of the two.
The two are not connected. Both try to win, and dying is bad. But town dying gives scum less new information (only role), while scum dying gives town huge amounts of information (role, but also conf scum, which can lead to other scum being exposed). And in my experience, scum is afraid to die more than town.
Now, if anyone wanted to know the stupid plan, it was to get one person to claim a cop and a group who they were investigating, but not reveal which person they were targeting. The next day reveal the result, still not revealing who they targeted. The people in the group would then reveal what they should have been revealed as. Etc etc. It was a stupid, optimistic plan based on flawed reason and my idiocy.
I don't see why you couldn't share this with us when you realized it won't go through, but ok... NAI.
If I am to die, then the two groupings that make the most sense to me are
Meteor / Tiger
Meteor / GJ.
The followup is Vaimes as scum (Idk How, but its the next likely option) with one of those three.
What I don't get is, if Meteor is your top scum read, why don't you vote for him? You haven't voted yet in the game, if I recall correctly, and yet you claim how we are all scummy all the time.
Oh, and I don't know what to think of JT/silver exchange, will have to re-read it. First impression; JT looks better than silver.
@Silver why are you proposing for the miller to claim before Riku was forced to made his claim? Also, why no townie mentioned the miller shoulsn't say anything before Riku claims in response to this?
I'm saying if we aren't lynching Ruma because we think he's the miller, the real miller could claim so we can lynch the caught wolf. I don't think we need a definite, hard claim from Ruma before the “real” miller, if one exists, to CC him.
I think Ruma *is* the miller and this whole discussion is academic, though. He doesn’t make that post with half the game trying to lynch him as a wolf. If he’s a wolf, he should have just hard claimed miller to get the CC immediately.
I’m not opposed to forcing him to claim, but I think we’re at the point where we all know he’s going to claim miller because claiming anything else gets him quicklynched, so his miller claim happens regardless of his alignment, and if he’s not the miller he gets CC’d by the real miller, so I’d rather just have the “real miller,” if they exist, CC him now so we can get on with it, especially given his spotty activity.
@Vaimes We both lost the first one so not sure its a good idea lol. What are your thought about this game and how to approach it? If you are scum I'll know.
@Tom are the rules exactly the same as last time? (Learned not to assume stuff)
My initial knee-jerk reaction to the setup was “ignore Cop results unless there’s a mechanical contradiction.”
Also that the Miller is basically a townfirm and shouldn’t claim D1 unless they’re about to be lynched, otherwise the NK gives no info.
Unless tom changes his mind, the Godfather can return a guilty result if targeted by the Framer, which further cements my feelings of “ignore Cop results unless contradiction occurs.”
So basically let’s play this D1 as if it were mountainous, and lynch people who don’t genuinely care about a town victory.
True but on the other hand claiming Miller now gives us extra % chance to lynch mafia, don't you think its important considering we cant afford many mislynches
(Is my plan to look like I am not the miller working?)
Lets get into the RVS fun too Vote TheTiger47 cause tigers are scary.
This exchange with Vaimes is kind of weird? Almost feels like he felt obligated to RVS after Vaimes did to me. The “miller cover” is kind of awkward, too, like, floating this question is pretty wolfy and trying to sell it as miller cover is. Weird.
I don't see how it would help mafia more than town. If we tell who we checked, but do not tell the results, mafia HAS to claim who they checked without knowing who is the miller. The miller can therefore act as a scum trap. If player A claims to have checked player X, and then players B and C also claim to have checked player X, we can then use a first in-last out (or completely random) system of claiming WHAT the result was. If we force mafia to claim the result first, we might catch them in a lie. We prevent them from piggy-backing on another player's claim.
Now please explain how this would benefit the mafia, as I do not see it.
That's a good point.
I thought it benefited the mafia because they know who is town and who is not, but I didn't take the miller into account.
Thats actually a good reason why the miller shouldn't claim.
In my mind if the mafia knew everything then waiting with the results until everyone claimed targets gives them the opportunity to fake results without a real cop counter-claiming them.
But yeah you are right, with the miller it doesnt benefit mafia more, my mistake.
OK, I see. Of course, the problem is, we force the miller to lie as well, since he must not claim and therefore must pose as a cop, but I think we are kind of doing that already. So I would go for it and see what happens. Unless of course a better plan presents itself.
Ehhh. Could be one of those “partner made a wolfy suggestion, better call him out for towncred” things. Or just jumping on a townie for what looks like a wolfy suggestion. The back down from having the miller claim early and saying the plan doesn’t benefit mafia is a bit stilted but alright I guess.
Not sure what to make of this argument & how both GJ and Tiger chose to ignore my question (test).
I would like to think they are mafia that were afraid to answer due to being caught, but could also be town that just waived it off (not sure why they would though?). I basically looked for any question that can cause mafia to freeze on online interaction (due to risk of being caught by answering) and thats exactly what happened.
@Everyone else - You think GJ & Tiger ignoring my question is AI?
@Riku you know what Vaimes expect of you, what do you expect of us?
These posts are about three hours apart, for the record, and the “trap” is posted in the middle of Tiger and GJ arguing about Tiger’s plan. They carry on their conversation, which Meteor apparently takes as some sort of wolf freezing up and not knowing how to respond to rather than the two of them missing it in the middle of their conversation. And having “caught” two “wolves” with this “trap” he, like, wonders if the trap is even legitimate? And he barely even gave the “trap” 3 hours to generate reactions before revealing it?
@Riku can you link me to a town and mafia game of you (prefer in a small game around 7 people like this one if possible)
@Abu why my question got your response over all the other content in this thread, other than the Vaimes post.
@Vaimes later when I am not using the phone to post.
Because you asked a general question and there was nothing else going on other than the Tiger vs GJ argument.
I feel some of your questions are forced and aimless to be honest.
I feel like my posts are being misread, not sure if its my fault or not.
I wasnt asking to claim role, I was asking to claim rolename, big difference - and like I said it was a trick question trying to look for mafia based on online interaction. Obviously even if it got mafia worried, a quick look back shows that there were no rolenames in the first game at all - both whether you are a cop or a mafia, and the same would fit here. If that wasnt enough, they can ask tom about it and I assume he would have answered. That's why I didn't wait for more answers and explained it in my next post only to see afterwards that Abu answered it later although I explained it already. I was looking for an immediate answer kinda like Tiger just gave, only Tiger obviously thought I meant role and not rolename so that answer is also NAI.
So no my questions are not forced or aimless. Also, content always helps solve the game (who are the mafia) if you look at the motive behind it.
Here he like, goes in on Abu for disliking what, well, I would call angleshooting by trying to use role PMs to trick people into divulging alignments. I guess the explanation here, that he was looking specifically for a real time reaction, sort of explains his quick follow up “ah-ha!” post, but I think the trap itself was destined to “trap” people who weren’t paying attention to the OP (which has all the role PMs listed) rather than actual wolves.
I mean isn't that modgaming? claiming role names and seeing if scum have different PM's than town. I honestly didn't read all of that post first, I didn't notice the last part. So you were fishing for reactions?
I don't feel like its modgaming or if I would call it fishing for reactions exactly, I was just trying to see if I can sense an uncomfortable mafia under pressure.
Where is everyone? Out on patrol?
Ehhh. I mean, I guess he might have actually thought that question would have pressured mafia, but like. Ehhhh.
Anyway for me the top2 candidates to lynch are Riku and Abu so far. I would be willing to settle on Vaimes or JoeTerry. It's really hard to get any solid reads with the low content made so far so I am still hoping for more discussions before I will place my vote.
I mean, that's basically the game apart from me, you, and tiger.
Because I am not getting nearly enough town motivation from almost all the players here, reading their posts.
No offense but even you had some comments that made me go :/ but at least you have some comments that made me feel you are town.
Riku we talked about.
Abu doesn't give enough focus reading the posts like I would expect a townie would.
Vaimes posts seems passive detached from the game (even before the sickness), different from the town Vaimes I know.
No idea whats going on with JoeTerry. I also PMd Tom about it, not reply so far.
Could see partners with Terry here. Sort of, concerned with his absence more than anyone else seems to be but also "willing to lynch him" despite total lack of content, putting Ruma and my slot over him, etc. etc.
Either Meteor is town, or he's scum with exactly JT since he was overly concerned with his activity.
I'm going to townread Riku for no particular reason.
GJ, JT, Abu
Hmm.
I was annoyed at the activity levels in general, and with the idea a mafia might get a free day 1 pass just because its slot didn't post. I am glad I was wrong and he did join, I really didn't think it was going to happen and wanted a replacement as early as possible to not stall the game.
Did you not see that or you saw it and thought I am faking it to protect JoeTerry in some way?
It felt to me like he proposed a plan just because it would seem towny to do so. If he really gave that much effort to come with a plan, I would imagine he would also be interested in advancing discussions which he isn't so far.
Who are your top candidates to lynch?
So he proposed a plan to look towny, but then immediately did something scummy by not following through with it?
Like I said, its hard when you have so little posts to work with. This was the one thing that jumped out to me as suspicious immediately when I read his posts.
I thought he was gonna follow through with the plan at the time.
Seeing as he posted since and didn't mention it, you may be right, that's putting unnecessary pressure at yourself as mafia. That said, I still don't see what the point is except look busy and waste town's time, so I assuming Riku doesn't follow through is NAI right now until I hear his thoughts.
Mmmm.
That “Terry's dumbtell seems fake” bit is interesting. Meteor has now tried to set a trap that relies on not reading the OP to work, then accuses Terry of faking a dumbtell for not having read the OP. I don’t really think it’s AI for Terry either way, pretty sure I’ve seen him fake dumbtells as a wolf, actually. And Meteor claims he doesn’t either, but I mean, if he’s faking dumbtells he’s probably a wolf, right? Now, it’s definitely possible this was a set-up for distancing, especially given Meteor just goes on to say:
For me misunderstandings like JoeTerry had are NAI, can be either town not paying attention or mafia faking it. Obviously both are bad for town but that doesn't mean its AI.
And drops it totally. Maybe he started waffling due to the subsequent “miller” dumbtells but like. He said it sounded fake and then didn’t go anywhere with it.
His defense for the Terry activity thing is that he was worried Terry is a wolf getting a free pass for not posting anything. Then he wonders if Vaimes thinks he was trying to protect Terry by trying to get him replaced or something. (No, the reason you’d be Terry’s partner in this scenario is because you’re worried that *your partner* isn’t going to show up and would rather they replaced sooner rather than later.)
And, okay, so he’s wolfreading Ruma for proposing a vague, amorphous plan then not advancing discussion about it, but Ruma hasn’t even posted since Meteor asked him when he was going to talk about the plan? And, to be honest, I’m having trouble following the second bit here.
Like, how is it putting unnecessary pressure on yourself as mafia? Because then you have to actually have a plan? I guess, but why would you even say that as a wolf and not actually have a plan for when everyone picks two people? Sounds… I dunno, sloppy at best? I’ll probably have to read the wolf game of Ruma’s he linked for Meteor earlier to see if that’s, like, a reasonable conclusion based on it.
Can someone walk me through whether it's better to have everyone check a predetermined target vs. keeping it a secret until D2? I'm not sure if it's better to have one claimed check on every player, or some of the players receiving multiple checks.
I am going on vacation, and not sure if I will have any access to internet. So VLA until 14/10, I guess. Will try to log in and post though if I get the chance.
Because of this, I will read the game soon and will place my vote, although I would have liked to wait for more answers and posts but whatever, better than risking not getting to vote before the day ends.
Does the sentence “Do you think I should unvote JT?” sound like something I would direct at you and not at someone else /about/ you?
I dunno, your townread is nice but the strength of it is a little lost on me.
Didn't notice you were voting JT. I am not going to tell you who to vote unlike GJ lol.
I guess a better question would be who would you vote if the two wagons were Abu and Riku (my two top2 mafia reads), but you are not gonna answer this anyway but the time I leave to the vacation..
In general I feel kinda discuraged about this game. Still no answers from Abu and Riku and I don't feel like asking more questions and waiting more days, and dragging this on and on..
I assume GJ is joking regarding wanting to lynch the miller. I do appreciate someone trying to lead town.
I read the Vaimes - JT interactions and I have no idea what to make of those, soooo strange. Gonna try rereading and see if it make more sense.
Catches Vaimes in an apparent mindset contradiction, drops it entirely but lobbies against his plan, says he wants to ask him a question (a good question, even) then, like, disrupts his own question by saying it doesn’t matter because he’s going on vacation.
Quick phone post on WiFi, didn't have time to read all the new posts.
Riku last post would be more impressive if not the fact mafia has day 1 chat (it's a bit unnatural to go from 0 ti 100)
I didnt get to read the points in detail so I can't say I agree with the content but the effort and town tone is definitely there. I am 50-50 on whether this is actual town or mafia realizing he is gonna be lynched and doing impersonation of one.
Going from memory Vaimes progression on Riku is strange. Town reading him for no reason, then saying him and Abu are the mafia team when he seemed very likely to be the lynch, and now reading Riku as town again. Possible Riku/Vaimes team. Specially when Riku keeps ignoring Vaimes previous question I really want to know the answer to myself.
If I remember this wrong then forget about this post, no time read back. Later. Sorry if typos.
@Silver, those are the parts, yes I believe they all could be faked with enough time and coaching help. I fell for much more townie vibes in posts in the past.
To those who say I should respond to concerns... Nah, screw that. I'll address something that I feel is important, but if you raise a concern that is mediocre, eh, why should I care? You could be scum *Shrugs*
Now onto the important *****. TheTiger47 is someone I think could be scum. See #118 for the following argument to make sure I haven't paraphrased or manipulated in any way.
As I said earlier, screw that. I'll either play to the point people remove their suspicions, or get lynched because of it. I'll answer concerns by playing, not by responding (Cause responding is one sure way to let scum push a lynch on town.)
Absolutely false.
I mean, overly defensive tends to be a good sign for town o.O But you guys are reading him complete opposites, so I'm gonna have to re-read. Yay.
And I just realised my original plan has so many flaws that I need to go back to the drawing board FML.
Kind of wanted to talk about this but haven’t had a good chance to yet. He waffles on lynching Ruma for “town tone” but then says he’s fallen for townier posts in the past.
I think it’s, mmm, interesting that Meteor thinks tone is something that can be coached, to say the least. I usually think of tone as something a player has or doesn’t and it’s more indicative of personality than it is alignment. Here Meteor is essentially saying “Ruma’s tone was scummy before, his tone in this post is better but it might have been coached.” Which…. I think his tone is pretty much the same throughout his posts, so disagree, and I don’t think it’s the tone that’s AI about that post but the timing/pressure applied to Ruma before he made it.
Maybe Meteor actually believes that tone is coachable like that? He seems to, anyway. Like. I think he’d probably say something like that regardless of his alignment (if he’s town, he thinks Ruma is a wolf and it’s coachable, if he’s a wolf, he thinks tone is coachable and tries to doubtcast tonereads of the post with that line).
I am thinking about his latest post and it's not like he can go as mafia and say "yeah I am delaying my posts because I am mafia", and this whole "I am not responding to mafia" is a good cover for mafia to take.
BTW, If Riku is the miller and refuse to claim that playing against his win-con IMO.
My daily 10 minutes are up, still not up to the latest post.. soon will return to being more active.
@Vaimes Why JT is your top town read?
@Silver You seem confident that Riku isn't mafia, then put him at L-1. If he is the miller then the mafia knows it by now anyway, At least let have this knowledge as town. IMO he is just as likely to be mafia that saves himself by scaring town into thinking they are gonna lynch a miller because he can't be bothered to claim. Why are you not worried about this scenario?
I see some suspicion about me. Would like to know why. If I understand correctly Vaimes is gonna do an ISO of me, in which he already decided i am mafia in? Sounds very townie. Vaimes, you may not like my method, but I ask questions and analyze motives before I vote, so no I am not ready to vote you yet, and if you are really town I would appreciate of you cooperate instead of ignoring my questions (i.e Sarcasm question) or answering half-ass answers (i.e JT top town read). I would like you to complete the missing parta when you are doing my ISO.
@Silver why are you proposing for the miller to claim before Riku was forced to made his claim? Also, why no townie mentioned the miller shoulsn't say anything before Riku claims in response to this?
First thing when I come back for vacation gonna analyze JT and Riku latest posts.
If there is anything at me I missed I apologize, please post it again.
It looks like he’s trying to ascribe some sort of motive to me about trying to get the miller to claim to make me look wolfy. I think Ruma is the miller and he probably ought to just claim at this point because he’s probably going to be lynched, but it’d probably take a claim by the “actual miller” to convince me otherwise due to the timing of his bigpost soft.
My actual response is posted above, but I have an issue with the way he’s trying to frame my mindset here. I don't think the miller should blanket claim first. In this specific, particular situation I'd prefer to have the "real miller," if they exist, just claim so we can get on with lynching the wolf instead of waiting for Ruma to come back and claim and then waiting for the counter claim. But I don't think there even is "real miller" out there because it's probably just Ruma anyway.
Vote: Meteor
Still willing to lynch Terry if the wagons shift. I’d lynch either of these two, or Ruma if there’s a miller CC. Probably not lynching in [Vaimes / GJ / Tiger] unless something pretty radically changes.
Just as a reminder, I am VLA on weekends. This game needs to progress. I’m willing to lynch silver, ruma and am now considering meteor. His last post just started off on the wrong foot, by saying right away, after admitting to not catching up (being lost) like one page in 10 minutes (which is what I just did while taking a crap) (yeah that’s right this is a crap-post), that he thinks everyone is suspicious of him. It sounds like lazy posting and scum paranoia. Anyways let’s lynch some and move on.
P.S. If you have a feeling you are planning on lynching me tomorrow, you should lynch me now. LyLo is not a good place for me to be in for anyone. I am fairly sure Meteor is scum though.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
So its 3-3 with GJ deciding the lynch? GJ why are you stalling the game we are all waiting for you lol (I kid I kid).
I guess mafia plan is to push me and hope my rushed posts during vacation will be viewed scummy and use the town willness to finish the day quickly get me mislynched. I see it almost worked with JT. Thanks for not hammering btw.
Seeing as I am in the airport waiting for my flight back I might be home in time to respond and hopefully stop a bad decision like that.
I am a cop. I see Riku is not planning to claim, so the option of him being mafia who is trying to scare town into thinking they can lynch the miller is the right one I guess. Need to think about this more.
Was I right all along? It was Riku and Abu/Silver with a chance of Vaimes? Did I push the right people and I am being pushed because mafia are afraid of me? That would be so exciting. Did mafia decide to go all in on me, in order to not bus each other? or did I get it all wrong and the two mafia are not in those three? I will be so disappointed.
Gonna read the case about me and respond when I get home. Expcet a post somewhere around 14 hours from now.
@JT English is not my first language. It takes me about 1.5 hours to read a page and respond. In 10 minutes I can barely get to 5 posts sadly.
@Vaimes what do you think of Silver and Riku joining your vote and the way they did?
My partner is giving me stares for typing so long lol gotta go.
If this is genuine, which it probably is. It means Joe Terry throwing around votes in a weird fashion is town sign. I have an inkling silver is town, so Meteor, The scum are probably on me~
vote:Tiger
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Wow. Riku just shot up in my town /mafia reads after this. I don't see why mafia would ever unvote here?
I think he is wrong about Tiger though. I would suggest you (Riku) to do an ISO of Tiger.
Riku now that you realize I am town, please answer:
1. Why did you disappear a couple of times after a big post earlier and do you realize it looks scummy? How do you expect people to townread you after that?
2. What do you think about people not lynching you because they think you are the miller? Please go on details as much as possible.
@Vaimes We both lost the first one so not sure its a good idea lol. What are your thought about this game and how to approach it? If you are scum I'll know.
@Tom are the rules exactly the same as last time? (Learned not to assume stuff)
My initial knee-jerk reaction to the setup was “ignore Cop results unless there’s a mechanical contradiction.”
Also that the Miller is basically a townfirm and shouldn’t claim D1 unless they’re about to be lynched, otherwise the NK gives no info.
Unless tom changes his mind, the Godfather can return a guilty result if targeted by the Framer, which further cements my feelings of “ignore Cop results unless contradiction occurs.”
So basically let’s play this D1 as if it were mountainous, and lynch people who don’t genuinely care about a town victory.
True but on the other hand claiming Miller now gives us extra % chance to lynch mafia, don't you think its important considering we cant afford many mislynches
(Is my plan to look like I am not the miller working?)
Lets get into the RVS fun too Vote TheTiger47 cause tigers are scary.
This exchange with Vaimes is kind of weird? Almost feels like he felt obligated to RVS after Vaimes did to me. The “miller cover” is kind of awkward, too, like, floating this question is pretty wolfy and trying to sell it as miller cover is. Weird.
I didn't feel obligated to anything I just forgot that RVS exists and voted after Vaimes reminded me it exists in this game. The "miller cover" is not akward at all and should be obvious to everyone who is town and focused about the game. Because I am a cop and not a miller (can say it now after claiming) I wanted to make sure mafia are aware me being in favor of miller claiming doesn't mean I am not one, I didn't want them to be able to cross people off the Miller list. Actually you not getting it is scummy IMO.
I don't see how it would help mafia more than town. If we tell who we checked, but do not tell the results, mafia HAS to claim who they checked without knowing who is the miller. The miller can therefore act as a scum trap. If player A claims to have checked player X, and then players B and C also claim to have checked player X, we can then use a first in-last out (or completely random) system of claiming WHAT the result was. If we force mafia to claim the result first, we might catch them in a lie. We prevent them from piggy-backing on another player's claim.
Now please explain how this would benefit the mafia, as I do not see it.
That's a good point.
I thought it benefited the mafia because they know who is town and who is not, but I didn't take the miller into account.
Thats actually a good reason why the miller shouldn't claim.
In my mind if the mafia knew everything then waiting with the results until everyone claimed targets gives them the opportunity to fake results without a real cop counter-claiming them.
But yeah you are right, with the miller it doesnt benefit mafia more, my mistake.
OK, I see. Of course, the problem is, we force the miller to lie as well, since he must not claim and therefore must pose as a cop, but I think we are kind of doing that already. So I would go for it and see what happens. Unless of course a better plan presents itself.
Ehhh. Could be one of those “partner made a wolfy suggestion, better call him out for towncred” things. Or just jumping on a townie for what looks like a wolfy suggestion. The back down from having the miller claim early and saying the plan doesn’t benefit mafia is a bit stilted but alright I guess.
I thought Tiger made a scummy plan so I called him out on it. However it was my mistake not thinking about the miller. Making a mistake makes me mafia? At the end you said its alright so I am assuming you realize nothing scummy about it.
Not sure what to make of this argument & how both GJ and Tiger chose to ignore my question (test).
I would like to think they are mafia that were afraid to answer due to being caught, but could also be town that just waived it off (not sure why they would though?). I basically looked for any question that can cause mafia to freeze on online interaction (due to risk of being caught by answering) and thats exactly what happened.
@Everyone else - You think GJ & Tiger ignoring my question is AI?
@Riku you know what Vaimes expect of you, what do you expect of us?
These posts are about three hours apart, for the record, and the “trap” is posted in the middle of Tiger and GJ arguing about Tiger’s plan. They carry on their conversation, which Meteor apparently takes as some sort of wolf freezing up and not knowing how to respond to rather than the two of them missing it in the middle of their conversation. And having “caught” two “wolves” with this “trap” he, like, wonders if the trap is even legitimate? And he barely even gave the “trap” 3 hours to generate reactions before revealing it?
@Riku can you link me to a town and mafia game of you (prefer in a small game around 7 people like this one if possible)
@Abu why my question got your response over all the other content in this thread, other than the Vaimes post.
@Vaimes later when I am not using the phone to post.
Because you asked a general question and there was nothing else going on other than the Tiger vs GJ argument.
I feel some of your questions are forced and aimless to be honest.
I feel like my posts are being misread, not sure if its my fault or not.
I wasnt asking to claim role, I was asking to claim rolename, big difference - and like I said it was a trick question trying to look for mafia based on online interaction. Obviously even if it got mafia worried, a quick look back shows that there were no rolenames in the first game at all - both whether you are a cop or a mafia, and the same would fit here. If that wasnt enough, they can ask tom about it and I assume he would have answered. That's why I didn't wait for more answers and explained it in my next post only to see afterwards that Abu answered it later although I explained it already. I was looking for an immediate answer kinda like Tiger just gave, only Tiger obviously thought I meant role and not rolename so that answer is also NAI.
So no my questions are not forced or aimless. Also, content always helps solve the game (who are the mafia) if you look at the motive behind it.
Here he like, goes in on Abu for disliking what, well, I would call angleshooting by trying to use role PMs to trick people into divulging alignments. I guess the explanation here, that he was looking specifically for a real time reaction, sort of explains his quick follow up “ah-ha!” post, but I think the trap itself was destined to “trap” people who weren’t paying attention to the OP (which has all the role PMs listed) rather than actual wolves.
I mean isn't that modgaming? claiming role names and seeing if scum have different PM's than town. I honestly didn't read all of that post first, I didn't notice the last part. So you were fishing for reactions?
I don't feel like its modgaming or if I would call it fishing for reactions exactly, I was just trying to see if I can sense an uncomfortable mafia under pressure.
Where is everyone? Out on patrol?
Ehhh. I mean, I guess he might have actually thought that question would have pressured mafia, but like. Ehhhh.
I am gonna reply to all spoilers altogether because they are on the same subject - my rolename question. I actually did think its gonna pressure mafia, I really dont like how you shade that. The fact that you think something else than me doesn't mean my opinion is not genuine.
Anyway for me the top2 candidates to lynch are Riku and Abu so far. I would be willing to settle on Vaimes or JoeTerry. It's really hard to get any solid reads with the low content made so far so I am still hoping for more discussions before I will place my vote.
I mean, that's basically the game apart from me, you, and tiger.
Because I am not getting nearly enough town motivation from almost all the players here, reading their posts.
No offense but even you had some comments that made me go :/ but at least you have some comments that made me feel you are town.
Riku we talked about.
Abu doesn't give enough focus reading the posts like I would expect a townie would.
Vaimes posts seems passive detached from the game (even before the sickness), different from the town Vaimes I know.
No idea whats going on with JoeTerry. I also PMd Tom about it, not reply so far.
Could see partners with Terry here. Sort of, concerned with his absence more than anyone else seems to be but also "willing to lynch him" despite total lack of content, putting Ruma and my slot over him, etc. etc.
I was annoyed with JT activity because I cant tell if his slot is town or mafia if he doesn't post. I think other people who ignored his inactivity are the ones actually he could be parterend with because a mafia wouldn't want to put the spotlight on his fellow mafia buddy.
Either Meteor is town, or he's scum with exactly JT since he was overly concerned with his activity.
I'm going to townread Riku for no particular reason.
GJ, JT, Abu
Hmm.
I was annoyed at the activity levels in general, and with the idea a mafia might get a free day 1 pass just because its slot didn't post. I am glad I was wrong and he did join, I really didn't think it was going to happen and wanted a replacement as early as possible to not stall the game.
Did you not see that or you saw it and thought I am faking it to protect JoeTerry in some way?
It felt to me like he proposed a plan just because it would seem towny to do so. If he really gave that much effort to come with a plan, I would imagine he would also be interested in advancing discussions which he isn't so far.
Who are your top candidates to lynch?
So he proposed a plan to look towny, but then immediately did something scummy by not following through with it?
Like I said, its hard when you have so little posts to work with. This was the one thing that jumped out to me as suspicious immediately when I read his posts.
I thought he was gonna follow through with the plan at the time.
Seeing as he posted since and didn't mention it, you may be right, that's putting unnecessary pressure at yourself as mafia. That said, I still don't see what the point is except look busy and waste town's time, so I assuming Riku doesn't follow through is NAI right now until I hear his thoughts.
Mmmm.
That “Terry's dumbtell seems fake” bit is interesting. Meteor has now tried to set a trap that relies on not reading the OP to work, then accuses Terry of faking a dumbtell for not having read the OP. I don’t really think it’s AI for Terry either way, pretty sure I’ve seen him fake dumbtells as a wolf, actually. And Meteor claims he doesn’t either, but I mean, if he’s faking dumbtells he’s probably a wolf, right? Now, it’s definitely possible this was a set-up for distancing, especially given Meteor just goes on to say:
For me misunderstandings like JoeTerry had are NAI, can be either town not paying attention or mafia faking it. Obviously both are bad for town but that doesn't mean its AI.
And drops it totally. Maybe he started waffling due to the subsequent “miller” dumbtells but like. He said it sounded fake and then didn’t go anywhere with it.
His defense for the Terry activity thing is that he was worried Terry is a wolf getting a free pass for not posting anything. Then he wonders if Vaimes thinks he was trying to protect Terry by trying to get him replaced or something. (No, the reason you’d be Terry’s partner in this scenario is because you’re worried that *your partner* isn’t going to show up and would rather they replaced sooner rather than later.)
And, okay, so he’s wolfreading Ruma for proposing a vague, amorphous plan then not advancing discussion about it, but Ruma hasn’t even posted since Meteor asked him when he was going to talk about the plan? And, to be honest, I’m having trouble following the second bit here.
Like, how is it putting unnecessary pressure on yourself as mafia? Because then you have to actually have a plan? I guess, but why would you even say that as a wolf and not actually have a plan for when everyone picks two people? Sounds… I dunno, sloppy at best? I’ll probably have to read the wolf game of Ruma’s he linked for Meteor earlier to see if that’s, like, a reasonable conclusion based on it.
There is a big difference between not knowing a role (framer) and not remembering from the OP roles that Tom doesn't use rolenames.
Regarding Riku thats exactly why I said its NAI. Didn't make sense as both town or mafia. After Riku mentioned the plan and what he thought then I can see why he did it as town.
Can someone walk me through whether it's better to have everyone check a predetermined target vs. keeping it a secret until D2? I'm not sure if it's better to have one claimed check on every player, or some of the players receiving multiple checks.
I am going on vacation, and not sure if I will have any access to internet. So VLA until 14/10, I guess. Will try to log in and post though if I get the chance.
Because of this, I will read the game soon and will place my vote, although I would have liked to wait for more answers and posts but whatever, better than risking not getting to vote before the day ends.
Does the sentence “Do you think I should unvote JT?” sound like something I would direct at you and not at someone else /about/ you?
I dunno, your townread is nice but the strength of it is a little lost on me.
Didn't notice you were voting JT. I am not going to tell you who to vote unlike GJ lol.
I guess a better question would be who would you vote if the two wagons were Abu and Riku (my two top2 mafia reads), but you are not gonna answer this anyway but the time I leave to the vacation..
In general I feel kinda discuraged about this game. Still no answers from Abu and Riku and I don't feel like asking more questions and waiting more days, and dragging this on and on..
I assume GJ is joking regarding wanting to lynch the miller. I do appreciate someone trying to lead town.
I read the Vaimes - JT interactions and I have no idea what to make of those, soooo strange. Gonna try rereading and see if it make more sense.
Catches Vaimes in an apparent mindset contradiction, drops it entirely but lobbies against his plan, says he wants to ask him a question (a good question, even) then, like, disrupts his own question by saying it doesn’t matter because he’s going on vacation.
Regarding the question to Vaimes I was annoyed that when he finally answered my question turns out he was already voting which I didnt notice, and I figured by the time I get the answer after asking again the day is gonna be over already.
Quick phone post on WiFi, didn't have time to read all the new posts.
Riku last post would be more impressive if not the fact mafia has day 1 chat (it's a bit unnatural to go from 0 ti 100)
I didnt get to read the points in detail so I can't say I agree with the content but the effort and town tone is definitely there. I am 50-50 on whether this is actual town or mafia realizing he is gonna be lynched and doing impersonation of one.
Going from memory Vaimes progression on Riku is strange. Town reading him for no reason, then saying him and Abu are the mafia team when he seemed very likely to be the lynch, and now reading Riku as town again. Possible Riku/Vaimes team. Specially when Riku keeps ignoring Vaimes previous question I really want to know the answer to myself.
If I remember this wrong then forget about this post, no time read back. Later. Sorry if typos.
@Silver, those are the parts, yes I believe they all could be faked with enough time and coaching help. I fell for much more townie vibes in posts in the past.
To those who say I should respond to concerns... Nah, screw that. I'll address something that I feel is important, but if you raise a concern that is mediocre, eh, why should I care? You could be scum *Shrugs*
Now onto the important *****. TheTiger47 is someone I think could be scum. See #118 for the following argument to make sure I haven't paraphrased or manipulated in any way.
As I said earlier, screw that. I'll either play to the point people remove their suspicions, or get lynched because of it. I'll answer concerns by playing, not by responding (Cause responding is one sure way to let scum push a lynch on town.)
Absolutely false.
I mean, overly defensive tends to be a good sign for town o.O But you guys are reading him complete opposites, so I'm gonna have to re-read. Yay.
And I just realised my original plan has so many flaws that I need to go back to the drawing board FML.
Kind of wanted to talk about this but haven’t had a good chance to yet. He waffles on lynching Ruma for “town tone” but then says he’s fallen for townier posts in the past.
I think it’s, mmm, interesting that Meteor thinks tone is something that can be coached, to say the least. I usually think of tone as something a player has or doesn’t and it’s more indicative of personality than it is alignment. Here Meteor is essentially saying “Ruma’s tone was scummy before, his tone in this post is better but it might have been coached.” Which…. I think his tone is pretty much the same throughout his posts, so disagree, and I don’t think it’s the tone that’s AI about that post but the timing/pressure applied to Ruma before he made it.
Maybe Meteor actually believes that tone is coachable like that? He seems to, anyway. Like. I think he’d probably say something like that regardless of his alignment (if he’s town, he thinks Ruma is a wolf and it’s coachable, if he’s a wolf, he thinks tone is coachable and tries to doubtcast tonereads of the post with that line).
I do believe that it can be coached and once again I don't like how you cast doubt about what I am thinking.
I am thinking about his latest post and it's not like he can go as mafia and say "yeah I am delaying my posts because I am mafia", and this whole "I am not responding to mafia" is a good cover for mafia to take.
BTW, If Riku is the miller and refuse to claim that playing against his win-con IMO.
My daily 10 minutes are up, still not up to the latest post.. soon will return to being more active.
@Vaimes Why JT is your top town read?
@Silver You seem confident that Riku isn't mafia, then put him at L-1. If he is the miller then the mafia knows it by now anyway, At least let have this knowledge as town. IMO he is just as likely to be mafia that saves himself by scaring town into thinking they are gonna lynch a miller because he can't be bothered to claim. Why are you not worried about this scenario?
I see some suspicion about me. Would like to know why. If I understand correctly Vaimes is gonna do an ISO of me, in which he already decided i am mafia in? Sounds very townie. Vaimes, you may not like my method, but I ask questions and analyze motives before I vote, so no I am not ready to vote you yet, and if you are really town I would appreciate of you cooperate instead of ignoring my questions (i.e Sarcasm question) or answering half-ass answers (i.e JT top town read). I would like you to complete the missing parta when you are doing my ISO.
@Silver why are you proposing for the miller to claim before Riku was forced to made his claim? Also, why no townie mentioned the miller shoulsn't say anything before Riku claims in response to this?
First thing when I come back for vacation gonna analyze JT and Riku latest posts.
If there is anything at me I missed I apologize, please post it again.
It looks like he’s trying to ascribe some sort of motive to me about trying to get the miller to claim to make me look wolfy. I think Ruma is the miller and he probably ought to just claim at this point because he’s probably going to be lynched, but it’d probably take a claim by the “actual miller” to convince me otherwise due to the timing of his bigpost soft.
My actual response is posted above, but I have an issue with the way he’s trying to frame my mindset here. I don't think the miller should blanket claim first. In this specific, particular situation I'd prefer to have the "real miller," if they exist, just claim so we can get on with lynching the wolf instead of waiting for Ruma to come back and claim and then waiting for the counter claim. But I don't think there even is "real miller" out there because it's probably just Ruma anyway.
I am not trying to frame you for anything. You said you want the miller if exist to claim now and I think its very scummy. If you are town that refuse to lynch Riku because you THINK he is the miller and he refuses to claim then you pressure Riku and ask him to claim.
Silver, I read everything and I still don't get what your case against me is. To me it looks like a forced case just so your vote on me won't be naked. You didn't find even one of my posts townie? Seriously? I find that hard to believe.
Taking this altogether with Abu scummy posts and Riku latest unvote (I can't see mafia unvoting there) makes you my suspect number one.
Unvote
Vote: Silver
I know its lots of text but please I ask town to read everything - I really think Abu/Silver is a mafia here, and I wanna hear your thoughts.
My brain is fried and I'm too tired to catch up right now with all the latest posts I haven't read yet - thats for tomorrow.
Haven't read all of Meteor's post, on skimming it it doesn't really... Seem to explain a lot of the problems I had with his play. Not sure he unvotes his counterwagon to omgus me if he's a wolf though.
Maybe if he's exactly Ruma's partner and Ruma is the Godfather, I guess, but then the Terry thing makes no sense to me.
Mrgle.
Unvote
I'm gonna take tomorrow to comb isos again because something isn't adding up quite right.
Maybe it is just, Ruma/x? His last post makes it sound like he isn't the miller, which. Lolme I suppose.
I don't really post on the weekends. I was moving a bunch of ***** and went to an apple farm all day. I would considered meteoring hammer. I don't know if in good conscious, do that over riku though.
Caught up with the thread.
I Have a few thoughts and questions but I think waiting for other to post rather than spamming the thread will be more productive.
Also willing to answer questions if someone has any for me, or do some online interaction.
On a totally unimportant side note, I don't know why but Tiger posts just reminded me of Shadow on a re-read.
Haven't read all of Meteor's post, on skimming it it doesn't really... Seem to explain a lot of the problems I had with his play. Not sure he unvotes his counterwagon to omgus me if he's a wolf though.
Maybe if he's exactly Ruma's partner and Ruma is the Godfather, I guess, but then the Terry thing makes no sense to me.
Mrgle.
Unvote
I'm gonna take tomorrow to comb isos again because something isn't adding up quite right.
Maybe it is just, Ruma/x? His last post makes it sound like he isn't the miller, which. Lolme I suppose.
Because he's at L-1 and I want input from people who haven't posted in a few days re: my meteor iso? And I want to double check some stuff like I said in my last post?
Silver, why are you skeptical about me being mafia after unvoting my counterwagon, but then moving on to suspecting Ruma even though he done the exact same thing?
I don't think he ever had a real counter wagon until I voted you and then he followed me on, but I wasn't really paying close attention to wagons until I replaced in.
Regardless it was more of the audacity of "what, you cased me, let me take my counterwagon from L-1 to L-2 to omgus you when we barely have the votes to get him lynched as is" than it was just, like, the mechanical action of unvoting the counter wagon.
I think, as a wolf, you probably just hold on to the Ruma wagon and try to get him lynched there unless he's your partner, but I'm not really reading your play against him as a bus (and you're more likely partners with Terry anyway).
That's why I'm trying to reevaluate before we lynch. That and I've been wrong before even though I had what should've been an airtight case, so I'm trying to make sure I'm not in a tunnel.
As far as being suspicious of Ruma, he magic bagged at L-1 and now his bag seems to be empty or he wouldn't be worried about getting lynched toMorrow instead. So, yeah, like, I'm considering whether he might actually just be a wolf trying to dissipate his wagon without getting CC'd now. I didn't think it was likely because I thought he was just the miller and if he was a wolf he would at least want the miller outed before getting lynched, but if his bag is actually empty then it's the most plausible scenario.
@Silver It was 3 votes each when Ruma unvoted. I could have been lynched by GJ or even JT who was thinking about hammering.
Meanwhile here is my summary of posts I liked and disliked, kind of like a pros and cons list, with the bold posts being posts I really liked or really disliked. I just finished adding all the posts since the vacation during my re-read as I didn't have time to fully read them back then. Also, I edited old posts from the beginning after a re-read of those also.
Not sure it will help anyone but worth posting I guess.
I missed Ruma's move to Tiger, but like I said it was more about the omgus with the unvote... But I guess it wasn't as risky as I thought since you were already out of lynch range when you unvoted. Still think you maybe try to get the Ruma lynch if you're a wolf, though, but that definitely changes things. Mmmm.
P.S. If you have a feeling you are planning on lynching me tomorrow, you should lynch me now. LyLo is not a good place for me to be in for anyone. I am fairly sure Meteor is scum though.
You won't make it there if you continue to post like you don't care what happens today.
Terry, my biggest issue with you is that Vaimes is your biggest town read. Your other posts have some pros and cons. I can see why people might town read vaimes, but I can't see why he would be your "top town" read.
He just feels town to me and we have mind melded on several issues. Like several times I was just about to post something and Vaimes comes in and posts it before me. That makes me pretty confident he's town.
Two examples of this?
#72, #107 and #113
72 kind of feels like a "no duh" moment. I thought the same thing. If abu had a wolf buddy, he'd probably think the same thing. 107 is pretty trashy considering he has been grimy and slanky. It he wanted to try to run the game, he had ample opportunity to do so before he went back to posting once/twice a day. 113 he is blatantly wrong, and it feels weird that he is talking about bussing day 1 with 0 wolf flips. I realize I brought it up, but it just feels like an odd position to have.
In your defense, I think I am liking you better for town. I don't think those are the posts you pick if you were legit trying to prove mindmelds that look good. But we aren't going to see eye-to-eye on vaimes.
Riku's refusal to make a direct town read, his posting, and late vote onto meteor all make me feel sick. I don't really know how I am going to get over this, because he is going to turn his WIM up to 11 if we let him go to tomorrow?
Like, let's say I go after Silver/Vaimes or even Meteor today. Even if one of them flips wolf, is there anyway I don't just end up on Riku tomorrow? And if they flip town today, it's even worse. That's the problem I am currently trying to work out.
I really don't see how this game doesn't just end up as Vaimes/Riku, with some side of Silver, and paranoia about meteor.
That's the problem with giving people who don't hunt and post bad a pass. This right here mtgs: Not only does it teach bad habits, but your in the exact same spot tomorrow, except tomorrow is Lyol. Riku is my top wolf read, and even then, I feel really unsure because he has made some questionable plays, and while twtbw is definitely a thing, sometimes that person just legit is a wolf.
Meteor has that nagging feeling in the back of my head, but it would take a mountain for me to cross that ditch. And I think this long in the game day 1 with 0 flips, reads are going to bounce everywhere.
rip me I fell asleep while I was reading. Anyways.
Think I'm not gonna try and think too hard on my reads because there's reasons to townread pretty much everyone.
Page 1 reaffirmed my original belief that Meteor is either just town or exactly scum with JT. Third nebulous option is that he's a very elaborate busser, but he seems like a pretty straightforward player.
Additionally, I kinda just want to bite the bullet and call Riku town. With D1 coaching, I feel like he wouldn't have done half of the stuff he's done unless his partner isn't really pushing him behind the scenes. Plus the way people have been picking at him but not really pushing makes me think no one is really bussing him.
I'm holding onto the possibility of the team being Tiger/GJ. I townread Tiger independently, but the page one spat just sort of fizzled and they ended up townreading each other, and it wasn't really over anything that cements them as Not Buddies.
Abu, who is calling you suspicious and why are you directing your post at the game at large instead of them specifically?
GJ voted me and said I'm coasting or sth like that, and meteor showed suspicion of me in #55, I didn't tag them because I was too lazy to quote two posts in one.
I don't think Abu vaguely complains about being suspected if one of the two people doing it is his partner? That's like...the exact opposite of what scum in his shoes should do.
I would just lynch in the last three, and if one of them happens to be the miller, all the better.
Okay, this is really obnoxious, but my super duper Vaimes tinfoil radar is going off because he added some extra words to Tiger's name for no reason. I can't reeeeally explain the exact logic behind scum doing it, it looks like a weird sort of distancing, like you're trying to show off that you don't know the person you're mentioning very well so you tack on extra words to be like "yes, this exact person, not someone else with a similar name," except that there's only one Tiger in this game, so it looks scummy. Anyways, I'm mostly just pointing out on the 0.1% chance I'm right for postgame cred.
Dude guys! Riku is at L-2! Oh wait... Riku is a totally fabricated player name. Haha this is too much. Leadership officially revoked GJ. You just sheeped a vote on a non existent player.
Hi Silver, your slot was my least favorite. Prove me wrong UNVOTE
This is a townslip? Or at least 100% not scum with Riku. If they're the team and were gonna distance on the basis of Riku's username being different, it probably would have been brought up waaay earlier, when people first started voting/talking about him.
Actually, no one really took the opportunity to distance from Riku by asking who the **** Riku was. That's like, distancing handed to you on a silver platter. Plus the open defiance at L-1. Plus not fishing for the Miller. He's probably just town.
End of page 3. What do we have so far.
Vaimes
Meteor
Riku
JT
Tiger
Silver
GJ
This is probably a very unpopular list, rip. Even I'm not sure I like it.
Additionally, I kinda just want to bite the bullet and call Riku town. With D1 coaching, I feel like he wouldn't have done half of the stuff he's done unless his partner isn't really pushing him behind the scenes
Additionally, I kinda just want to bite the bullet and call Riku town. With D1 coaching, I feel like he wouldn't have done half of the stuff he's done unless his partner isn't really pushing him behind the scenes
@Vaimes have you given up on doing my ISO?
I don't like Vaimes voting for me earlier. He didn't seem to have any reason to do so as town. Especially seeing now when he has GJ as top scum read yet says he isn't going after him. So why did he go after me?
Also, he keeps ignoring my questions.. I asked him what the sarcasm was about, and also what does he think about Silver and Riku joining him and the way they did. Didn't get any answer yet.
Silver constant postponing of scumhunting reminds me of all the times mafia are promising content under pressure of a lynch but usually ends up not delivering.
Interesting people are still reading Riku as mafia after him unvoting me. However, with that being said I agree he is a liability to town with the frequency and content of his posts. (He is town who is being a liability IMO)
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Mostly to keep him out of LyLo, but I won’t complain if he flips red.
This ends the Vaimes spamposting.
Ruma (2) - tiger, meteor
Joe (1) - silver
Meteor (1) - vaimes
Vaimes (1) - gj
Not voting: (2) - ruma, joe
I'm not sure why you people don't understand that you are all scummy... As my level of information is limited, therefore anything I see is from the viewpoint of I am the only confirmed townie to myself. Scum, on the other hand, have a partnr to rely on.
P.S. This is why scum are less afraid of being lynched then town. Town tend to be afraid of dying as they only know they are innocent, and no further information. I know, in theory, it should be scum who are afraid, but in practice, town are very often the more vocal and defensive of the two.
Now, if anyone wanted to know the stupid plan, it was to get one person to claim a cop and a group who they were investigating, but not reveal which person they were targeting. The next day reveal the result, still not revealing who they targeted. The people in the group would then reveal what they should have been revealed as. Etc etc. It was a stupid, optimistic plan based on flawed reason and my idiocy.
If I am to die, then the two groupings that make the most sense to me are
Meteor / Tiger
Meteor / GJ.
The followup is Vaimes as scum (Idk How, but its the next likely option) with one of those three.
Given I am the most prominent lynch, I will now answer your questions, albeit in a fashion which shows my distaste for your scumifications of my attitude. Lets see how scum and town alike twist my words to justify their POV. Im looking forward to this.
P.S. I hope you like conspiracies.
I cry.
I see some suspicion about me. Would like to know why. If I understand correctly Vaimes is gonna do an ISO of me, in which he already decided i am mafia in? Sounds very townie. Vaimes, you may not like my method, but I ask questions and analyze motives before I vote, so no I am not ready to vote you yet, and if you are really town I would appreciate of you cooperate instead of ignoring my questions (i.e Sarcasm question) or answering half-ass answers (i.e JT top town read). I would like you to complete the missing parta when you are doing my ISO.
@Silver why are you proposing for the miller to claim before Riku was forced to made his claim? Also, why no townie mentioned the miller shoulsn't say anything before Riku claims in response to this?
First thing when I come back for vacation gonna analyze JT and Riku latest posts.
If there is anything at me I missed I apologize, please post it again.
Since I believe Riku is scum (more on that in a bit), that has little effect on my view of Vaimes (#204 makes me edgy), but it might have a bigger one for you, who believe Riku could be town.
Riku, you are full of *****.
Nobody said we don't understand, afaik. And you are saying we should give you town cred for having no town reads, whilst people with town reads are scummy.
The two are not connected. Both try to win, and dying is bad. But town dying gives scum less new information (only role), while scum dying gives town huge amounts of information (role, but also conf scum, which can lead to other scum being exposed). And in my experience, scum is afraid to die more than town.
I don't see why you couldn't share this with us when you realized it won't go through, but ok... NAI.
What I don't get is, if Meteor is your top scum read, why don't you vote for him? You haven't voted yet in the game, if I recall correctly, and yet you claim how we are all scummy all the time.
Oh, and I don't know what to think of JT/silver exchange, will have to re-read it. First impression; JT looks better than silver.
I think Ruma *is* the miller and this whole discussion is academic, though. He doesn’t make that post with half the game trying to lynch him as a wolf. If he’s a wolf, he should have just hard claimed miller to get the CC immediately.
I’m not opposed to forcing him to claim, but I think we’re at the point where we all know he’s going to claim miller because claiming anything else gets him quicklynched, so his miller claim happens regardless of his alignment, and if he’s not the miller he gets CC’d by the real miller, so I’d rather just have the “real miller,” if they exist, CC him now so we can get on with it, especially given his spotty activity.
Meteor:
This exchange with Vaimes is kind of weird? Almost feels like he felt obligated to RVS after Vaimes did to me. The “miller cover” is kind of awkward, too, like, floating this question is pretty wolfy and trying to sell it as miller cover is. Weird.
Ehhh. Could be one of those “partner made a wolfy suggestion, better call him out for towncred” things. Or just jumping on a townie for what looks like a wolfy suggestion. The back down from having the miller claim early and saying the plan doesn’t benefit mafia is a bit stilted but alright I guess.
These posts are about three hours apart, for the record, and the “trap” is posted in the middle of Tiger and GJ arguing about Tiger’s plan. They carry on their conversation, which Meteor apparently takes as some sort of wolf freezing up and not knowing how to respond to rather than the two of them missing it in the middle of their conversation. And having “caught” two “wolves” with this “trap” he, like, wonders if the trap is even legitimate? And he barely even gave the “trap” 3 hours to generate reactions before revealing it?
Here he like, goes in on Abu for disliking what, well, I would call angleshooting by trying to use role PMs to trick people into divulging alignments. I guess the explanation here, that he was looking specifically for a real time reaction, sort of explains his quick follow up “ah-ha!” post, but I think the trap itself was destined to “trap” people who weren’t paying attention to the OP (which has all the role PMs listed) rather than actual wolves.
Could see partners with Terry here. Sort of, concerned with his absence more than anyone else seems to be but also "willing to lynch him" despite total lack of content, putting Ruma and my slot over him, etc. etc.
Mmmm.
That “Terry's dumbtell seems fake” bit is interesting. Meteor has now tried to set a trap that relies on not reading the OP to work, then accuses Terry of faking a dumbtell for not having read the OP. I don’t really think it’s AI for Terry either way, pretty sure I’ve seen him fake dumbtells as a wolf, actually. And Meteor claims he doesn’t either, but I mean, if he’s faking dumbtells he’s probably a wolf, right? Now, it’s definitely possible this was a set-up for distancing, especially given Meteor just goes on to say:
And drops it totally. Maybe he started waffling due to the subsequent “miller” dumbtells but like. He said it sounded fake and then didn’t go anywhere with it.
His defense for the Terry activity thing is that he was worried Terry is a wolf getting a free pass for not posting anything. Then he wonders if Vaimes thinks he was trying to protect Terry by trying to get him replaced or something. (No, the reason you’d be Terry’s partner in this scenario is because you’re worried that *your partner* isn’t going to show up and would rather they replaced sooner rather than later.)
And, okay, so he’s wolfreading Ruma for proposing a vague, amorphous plan then not advancing discussion about it, but Ruma hasn’t even posted since Meteor asked him when he was going to talk about the plan? And, to be honest, I’m having trouble following the second bit here.
Like, how is it putting unnecessary pressure on yourself as mafia? Because then you have to actually have a plan? I guess, but why would you even say that as a wolf and not actually have a plan for when everyone picks two people? Sounds… I dunno, sloppy at best? I’ll probably have to read the wolf game of Ruma’s he linked for Meteor earlier to see if that’s, like, a reasonable conclusion based on it.
Catches Vaimes in an apparent mindset contradiction, drops it entirely but lobbies against his plan, says he wants to ask him a question (a good question, even) then, like, disrupts his own question by saying it doesn’t matter because he’s going on vacation.
Kind of wanted to talk about this but haven’t had a good chance to yet. He waffles on lynching Ruma for “town tone” but then says he’s fallen for townier posts in the past.
I think it’s, mmm, interesting that Meteor thinks tone is something that can be coached, to say the least. I usually think of tone as something a player has or doesn’t and it’s more indicative of personality than it is alignment. Here Meteor is essentially saying “Ruma’s tone was scummy before, his tone in this post is better but it might have been coached.” Which…. I think his tone is pretty much the same throughout his posts, so disagree, and I don’t think it’s the tone that’s AI about that post but the timing/pressure applied to Ruma before he made it.
Maybe Meteor actually believes that tone is coachable like that? He seems to, anyway. Like. I think he’d probably say something like that regardless of his alignment (if he’s town, he thinks Ruma is a wolf and it’s coachable, if he’s a wolf, he thinks tone is coachable and tries to doubtcast tonereads of the post with that line).
It looks like he’s trying to ascribe some sort of motive to me about trying to get the miller to claim to make me look wolfy. I think Ruma is the miller and he probably ought to just claim at this point because he’s probably going to be lynched, but it’d probably take a claim by the “actual miller” to convince me otherwise due to the timing of his bigpost soft.
My actual response is posted above, but I have an issue with the way he’s trying to frame my mindset here. I don't think the miller should blanket claim first. In this specific, particular situation I'd prefer to have the "real miller," if they exist, just claim so we can get on with lynching the wolf instead of waiting for Ruma to come back and claim and then waiting for the counter claim. But I don't think there even is "real miller" out there because it's probably just Ruma anyway.
Vote: Meteor
Still willing to lynch Terry if the wagons shift. I’d lynch either of these two, or Ruma if there’s a miller CC. Probably not lynching in [Vaimes / GJ / Tiger] unless something pretty radically changes.
NO, FFS. God you just jumped on my scumlist.
Vote: Ruma, silver or meteor
P.S. If you have a feeling you are planning on lynching me tomorrow, you should lynch me now. LyLo is not a good place for me to be in for anyone. I am fairly sure Meteor is scum though.
I look forward to seeing the results.
I guess mafia plan is to push me and hope my rushed posts during vacation will be viewed scummy and use the town willness to finish the day quickly get me mislynched. I see it almost worked with JT. Thanks for not hammering btw.
Seeing as I am in the airport waiting for my flight back I might be home in time to respond and hopefully stop a bad decision like that.
I am a cop. I see Riku is not planning to claim, so the option of him being mafia who is trying to scare town into thinking they can lynch the miller is the right one I guess. Need to think about this more.
Was I right all along? It was Riku and Abu/Silver with a chance of Vaimes? Did I push the right people and I am being pushed because mafia are afraid of me? That would be so exciting. Did mafia decide to go all in on me, in order to not bus each other? or did I get it all wrong and the two mafia are not in those three? I will be so disappointed.
Gonna read the case about me and respond when I get home. Expcet a post somewhere around 14 hours from now.
@JT English is not my first language. It takes me about 1.5 hours to read a page and respond. In 10 minutes I can barely get to 5 posts sadly.
@Vaimes what do you think of Silver and Riku joining your vote and the way they did?
My partner is giving me stares for typing so long lol gotta go.
Meteor, you cant just assume things
vote:Tiger
I think he is wrong about Tiger though. I would suggest you (Riku) to do an ISO of Tiger.
Riku now that you realize I am town, please answer:
1. Why did you disappear a couple of times after a big post earlier and do you realize it looks scummy? How do you expect people to townread you after that?
2. What do you think about people not lynching you because they think you are the miller? Please go on details as much as possible.
Starting to read the Silver case of me.
This exchange with Vaimes is kind of weird? Almost feels like he felt obligated to RVS after Vaimes did to me. The “miller cover” is kind of awkward, too, like, floating this question is pretty wolfy and trying to sell it as miller cover is. Weird.
I didn't feel obligated to anything I just forgot that RVS exists and voted after Vaimes reminded me it exists in this game. The "miller cover" is not akward at all and should be obvious to everyone who is town and focused about the game. Because I am a cop and not a miller (can say it now after claiming) I wanted to make sure mafia are aware me being in favor of miller claiming doesn't mean I am not one, I didn't want them to be able to cross people off the Miller list. Actually you not getting it is scummy IMO.
Ehhh. Could be one of those “partner made a wolfy suggestion, better call him out for towncred” things. Or just jumping on a townie for what looks like a wolfy suggestion. The back down from having the miller claim early and saying the plan doesn’t benefit mafia is a bit stilted but alright I guess.
I thought Tiger made a scummy plan so I called him out on it. However it was my mistake not thinking about the miller. Making a mistake makes me mafia? At the end you said its alright so I am assuming you realize nothing scummy about it.
These posts are about three hours apart, for the record, and the “trap” is posted in the middle of Tiger and GJ arguing about Tiger’s plan. They carry on their conversation, which Meteor apparently takes as some sort of wolf freezing up and not knowing how to respond to rather than the two of them missing it in the middle of their conversation. And having “caught” two “wolves” with this “trap” he, like, wonders if the trap is even legitimate? And he barely even gave the “trap” 3 hours to generate reactions before revealing it?
Here he like, goes in on Abu for disliking what, well, I would call angleshooting by trying to use role PMs to trick people into divulging alignments. I guess the explanation here, that he was looking specifically for a real time reaction, sort of explains his quick follow up “ah-ha!” post, but I think the trap itself was destined to “trap” people who weren’t paying attention to the OP (which has all the role PMs listed) rather than actual wolves.
I am gonna reply to all spoilers altogether because they are on the same subject - my rolename question. I actually did think its gonna pressure mafia, I really dont like how you shade that. The fact that you think something else than me doesn't mean my opinion is not genuine.
Could see partners with Terry here. Sort of, concerned with his absence more than anyone else seems to be but also "willing to lynch him" despite total lack of content, putting Ruma and my slot over him, etc. etc.
I was annoyed with JT activity because I cant tell if his slot is town or mafia if he doesn't post. I think other people who ignored his inactivity are the ones actually he could be parterend with because a mafia wouldn't want to put the spotlight on his fellow mafia buddy.
Mmmm.
That “Terry's dumbtell seems fake” bit is interesting. Meteor has now tried to set a trap that relies on not reading the OP to work, then accuses Terry of faking a dumbtell for not having read the OP. I don’t really think it’s AI for Terry either way, pretty sure I’ve seen him fake dumbtells as a wolf, actually. And Meteor claims he doesn’t either, but I mean, if he’s faking dumbtells he’s probably a wolf, right? Now, it’s definitely possible this was a set-up for distancing, especially given Meteor just goes on to say:
And drops it totally. Maybe he started waffling due to the subsequent “miller” dumbtells but like. He said it sounded fake and then didn’t go anywhere with it.
His defense for the Terry activity thing is that he was worried Terry is a wolf getting a free pass for not posting anything. Then he wonders if Vaimes thinks he was trying to protect Terry by trying to get him replaced or something. (No, the reason you’d be Terry’s partner in this scenario is because you’re worried that *your partner* isn’t going to show up and would rather they replaced sooner rather than later.)
And, okay, so he’s wolfreading Ruma for proposing a vague, amorphous plan then not advancing discussion about it, but Ruma hasn’t even posted since Meteor asked him when he was going to talk about the plan? And, to be honest, I’m having trouble following the second bit here.
Like, how is it putting unnecessary pressure on yourself as mafia? Because then you have to actually have a plan? I guess, but why would you even say that as a wolf and not actually have a plan for when everyone picks two people? Sounds… I dunno, sloppy at best? I’ll probably have to read the wolf game of Ruma’s he linked for Meteor earlier to see if that’s, like, a reasonable conclusion based on it.
There is a big difference between not knowing a role (framer) and not remembering from the OP roles that Tom doesn't use rolenames.
Regarding Riku thats exactly why I said its NAI. Didn't make sense as both town or mafia. After Riku mentioned the plan and what he thought then I can see why he did it as town.
Catches Vaimes in an apparent mindset contradiction, drops it entirely but lobbies against his plan, says he wants to ask him a question (a good question, even) then, like, disrupts his own question by saying it doesn’t matter because he’s going on vacation.
Regarding the question to Vaimes I was annoyed that when he finally answered my question turns out he was already voting which I didnt notice, and I figured by the time I get the answer after asking again the day is gonna be over already.
Kind of wanted to talk about this but haven’t had a good chance to yet. He waffles on lynching Ruma for “town tone” but then says he’s fallen for townier posts in the past.
I think it’s, mmm, interesting that Meteor thinks tone is something that can be coached, to say the least. I usually think of tone as something a player has or doesn’t and it’s more indicative of personality than it is alignment. Here Meteor is essentially saying “Ruma’s tone was scummy before, his tone in this post is better but it might have been coached.” Which…. I think his tone is pretty much the same throughout his posts, so disagree, and I don’t think it’s the tone that’s AI about that post but the timing/pressure applied to Ruma before he made it.
Maybe Meteor actually believes that tone is coachable like that? He seems to, anyway. Like. I think he’d probably say something like that regardless of his alignment (if he’s town, he thinks Ruma is a wolf and it’s coachable, if he’s a wolf, he thinks tone is coachable and tries to doubtcast tonereads of the post with that line).
I do believe that it can be coached and once again I don't like how you cast doubt about what I am thinking.
It looks like he’s trying to ascribe some sort of motive to me about trying to get the miller to claim to make me look wolfy. I think Ruma is the miller and he probably ought to just claim at this point because he’s probably going to be lynched, but it’d probably take a claim by the “actual miller” to convince me otherwise due to the timing of his bigpost soft.
My actual response is posted above, but I have an issue with the way he’s trying to frame my mindset here. I don't think the miller should blanket claim first. In this specific, particular situation I'd prefer to have the "real miller," if they exist, just claim so we can get on with lynching the wolf instead of waiting for Ruma to come back and claim and then waiting for the counter claim. But I don't think there even is "real miller" out there because it's probably just Ruma anyway.
I am not trying to frame you for anything. You said you want the miller if exist to claim now and I think its very scummy. If you are town that refuse to lynch Riku because you THINK he is the miller and he refuses to claim then you pressure Riku and ask him to claim.
Silver, I read everything and I still don't get what your case against me is. To me it looks like a forced case just so your vote on me won't be naked. You didn't find even one of my posts townie? Seriously? I find that hard to believe.
Taking this altogether with Abu scummy posts and Riku latest unvote (I can't see mafia unvoting there) makes you my suspect number one.
Unvote
Vote: Silver
I know its lots of text but please I ask town to read everything - I really think Abu/Silver is a mafia here, and I wanna hear your thoughts.
My brain is fried and I'm too tired to catch up right now with all the latest posts I haven't read yet - thats for tomorrow.
Haven't read all of Meteor's post, on skimming it it doesn't really... Seem to explain a lot of the problems I had with his play. Not sure he unvotes his counterwagon to omgus me if he's a wolf though.
Maybe if he's exactly Ruma's partner and Ruma is the Godfather, I guess, but then the Terry thing makes no sense to me.
Mrgle.
Unvote
I'm gonna take tomorrow to comb isos again because something isn't adding up quite right.
Maybe it is just, Ruma/x? His last post makes it sound like he isn't the miller, which. Lolme I suppose.
I'll be evaluating tomorrow.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'll be fully caught up later today.
I Have a few thoughts and questions but I think waiting for other to post rather than spamming the thread will be more productive.
Also willing to answer questions if someone has any for me, or do some online interaction.
On a totally unimportant side note, I don't know why but Tiger posts just reminded me of Shadow on a re-read.
Who do you think it is? Ruma + who?
Still not voting Ruma.
Pretty funny Terry is shipping us though.
I was referring to you saying I'm a wolf with Ruma.
Regardless it was more of the audacity of "what, you cased me, let me take my counterwagon from L-1 to L-2 to omgus you when we barely have the votes to get him lynched as is" than it was just, like, the mechanical action of unvoting the counter wagon.
I think, as a wolf, you probably just hold on to the Ruma wagon and try to get him lynched there unless he's your partner, but I'm not really reading your play against him as a bus (and you're more likely partners with Terry anyway).
That's why I'm trying to reevaluate before we lynch. That and I've been wrong before even though I had what should've been an airtight case, so I'm trying to make sure I'm not in a tunnel.
As far as being suspicious of Ruma, he magic bagged at L-1 and now his bag seems to be empty or he wouldn't be worried about getting lynched toMorrow instead. So, yeah, like, I'm considering whether he might actually just be a wolf trying to dissipate his wagon without getting CC'd now. I didn't think it was likely because I thought he was just the miller and if he was a wolf he would at least want the miller outed before getting lynched, but if his bag is actually empty then it's the most plausible scenario.
Meanwhile here is my summary of posts I liked and disliked, kind of like a pros and cons list, with the bold posts being posts I really liked or really disliked. I just finished adding all the posts since the vacation during my re-read as I didn't have time to fully read them back then. Also, I edited old posts from the beginning after a re-read of those also.
Not sure it will help anyone but worth posting I guess.
Townie posts:
Gentleman johnny - #18, #25, #26, #41, #97, #99, #102, #110, #111, #130, #153, #159, #174, #177, #178, #190
AbuHumaid/Silver -
Rumanshi - #32, #131, #203, #217
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - #76, #84, #105, #125, #163, #172, #184
TheTiger47 - #12, #14, #19, #24, #36, #82, #143, #168, #206
Vaimes - #66, #71, #72, #92, #136, #152, #165, #166
Scummy posts:
Gentleman johnny - #23
AbuHumaid/Silver - #31, #37, #80, #135, #180, #207
Rumanshi - #15, #58, #93
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - #91, #196
TheTiger47 - #118
Vaimes - #7, #28, #109, #127, #197
You won't make it there if you continue to post like you don't care what happens today.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
72 kind of feels like a "no duh" moment. I thought the same thing. If abu had a wolf buddy, he'd probably think the same thing. 107 is pretty trashy considering he has been grimy and slanky. It he wanted to try to run the game, he had ample opportunity to do so before he went back to posting once/twice a day. 113 he is blatantly wrong, and it feels weird that he is talking about bussing day 1 with 0 wolf flips. I realize I brought it up, but it just feels like an odd position to have.
In your defense, I think I am liking you better for town. I don't think those are the posts you pick if you were legit trying to prove mindmelds that look good. But we aren't going to see eye-to-eye on vaimes.
My list right now, without full reading page 5 is
GJ
Tiger
Terry
Meteor
Silver
Vaimes
Riku
Meteor and silver could switch at any moment
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Like, let's say I go after Silver/Vaimes or even Meteor today. Even if one of them flips wolf, is there anyway I don't just end up on Riku tomorrow? And if they flip town today, it's even worse. That's the problem I am currently trying to work out.
I really don't see how this game doesn't just end up as Vaimes/Riku, with some side of Silver, and paranoia about meteor.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Meteor has that nagging feeling in the back of my head, but it would take a mountain for me to cross that ditch. And I think this long in the game day 1 with 0 flips, reads are going to bounce everywhere.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Think I'm not gonna try and think too hard on my reads because there's reasons to townread pretty much everyone.
Page 1 reaffirmed my original belief that Meteor is either just town or exactly scum with JT. Third nebulous option is that he's a very elaborate busser, but he seems like a pretty straightforward player.
Additionally, I kinda just want to bite the bullet and call Riku town. With D1 coaching, I feel like he wouldn't have done half of the stuff he's done unless his partner isn't really pushing him behind the scenes. Plus the way people have been picking at him but not really pushing makes me think no one is really bussing him.
I'm holding onto the possibility of the team being Tiger/GJ. I townread Tiger independently, but the page one spat just sort of fizzled and they ended up townreading each other, and it wasn't really over anything that cements them as Not Buddies. I don't think Abu vaguely complains about being suspected if one of the two people doing it is his partner? That's like...the exact opposite of what scum in his shoes should do. Okay, this is really obnoxious, but my super duper Vaimes tinfoil radar is going off because he added some extra words to Tiger's name for no reason. I can't reeeeally explain the exact logic behind scum doing it, it looks like a weird sort of distancing, like you're trying to show off that you don't know the person you're mentioning very well so you tack on extra words to be like "yes, this exact person, not someone else with a similar name," except that there's only one Tiger in this game, so it looks scummy. Anyways, I'm mostly just pointing out on the 0.1% chance I'm right for postgame cred. mmm, really don't like this. Looks either bad or fake in a game with an IC.
This is a townslip? Or at least 100% not scum with Riku. If they're the team and were gonna distance on the basis of Riku's username being different, it probably would have been brought up waaay earlier, when people first started voting/talking about him.
Actually, no one really took the opportunity to distance from Riku by asking who the **** Riku was. That's like, distancing handed to you on a silver platter. Plus the open defiance at L-1. Plus not fishing for the Miller. He's probably just town.
End of page 3. What do we have so far.
Vaimes
Meteor
Riku
JT
Tiger
Silver
GJ
This is probably a very unpopular list, rip. Even I'm not sure I like it.
Unvote, vote Silver
Maybe GJ will prove me wrong and end up dying.
What does this even mean?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Like, I'd self pres to him ten times out of ten, but I'm not particularly convinced he's a wolf still and I haven't gotten around to rereading yet.
That last post by Vaimes is kind of.
Says Abu probably wasn't a wolf with GJ but he thinks GJ is a wolf, then votes me over him because...?
@Vaimes: can you finish this sentence, please?
Besides, I’m not going to try and lynch you yet.
Do me a favor if you’re town, and get shot. I’ll feel stupid about it later.
Even though I act like that a good portion of the time the longer a game goes on. Rip.
Anyway, let’s kill Silver.
I don't like Vaimes voting for me earlier. He didn't seem to have any reason to do so as town. Especially seeing now when he has GJ as top scum read yet says he isn't going after him. So why did he go after me?
Also, he keeps ignoring my questions.. I asked him what the sarcasm was about, and also what does he think about Silver and Riku joining him and the way they did. Didn't get any answer yet.
Silver constant postponing of scumhunting reminds me of all the times mafia are promising content under pressure of a lynch but usually ends up not delivering.
Interesting people are still reading Riku as mafia after him unvoting me. However, with that being said I agree he is a liability to town with the frequency and content of his posts. (He is town who is being a liability IMO)