Yes, but with the burner phone mechanism in the game, we will be able to share private info more so than a normal game. I think I have made it pretty obvious that I am willing to give away coin/s, and if someone has something that works off that they can message me if a) they have a coin and b) they don't want to do so publicly.
And it is for funsies. I am still having fun
Finally Cantrip, give me some credit. If I was playfully fishing, then I pretty much am the dumbest player by explicitly asking again at the of my post.
Not that I remember. I feel like LnGrrrR got caught up in the generally jovial and playful tone of the posts up until then and thought he might get away with some light fishing, if worded correctly (especially after his first attempt went un-remarked upon). (Yes, I truly believe that he's scum and that he obviously fished. I just think he thought he'd get away with it.) Why does it put you "in a quandry"?
Becuase I find it Questionable that you believe so strongly that scum would be so obvious. Does LnGrrR really srike you as the type of person to play riskily or think he can get away with things?
Mostly curiosity. I don't necessarily mind getting people on me though, as I am not a super awesome player and I can second guess myself, so the sooner I can lock in strong feelings one way or another, the better. It's not so much that I expect heat, but I am not shocked when it happens. Though looking back at a few games, I think I am over-remembering earlier games on this site.
@Shadow, it's more so that I feel cantrip's attack on me was towny, and you not immediately jumping on was towny. GJ not voting me at all may be it, but that might be his meta. His Townlean on cheesecake for volume posting also felt a bit forced. To me, that's a weird reason to town read someone early on D1, 2 pages in, with most of it being opening day shenanigans RVS.
Since you have apparently managed to get some strong feelings out of it, could you explain those more? What about the opposing behaviours of Cantrip and Shadow are towny? Do you have an opinion on Cheescake's alignment?
@Lingerer: why did you address Eco as “SuperTownieEco”?
@GJ: are you talking to me about town reads early? I think I have a town tell on you, and I think Rhand picked up on it as well. But yeah, it’s early, it’s not like I’m at the “bet the game on these reads” stage.
@Cantrip: I stopped reading halfway as I just assumed it was about the nick name stuff, sorry:
What do you think the chances are that Shadow is LnGrrrR's buddy if LnGrrrR is scum?
Almost non-existent.
To your other question, what I meant was that in a game where I think there are vanillas, I am probably not going to actively hunt for people who are hinting PR. The issue I had with his question is if a bunch of people have PRs, so will the wolves. I worry that people outing roles will restrict who gets hunted on day 1. I don't like giving people free passes, especially when I don't think there are PRs.
Not used to reading wall posts. So used to the shorter post meta.
@Lingerer: why did you address Eco as “SuperTownieEco”?
@GJ: are you talking to me about town reads early? I think I have a town tell on you, and I think Rhand picked up on it as well. But yeah, it’s early, it’s not like I’m at the “bet the game on these reads” stage.
I didn't think you were. Honestly, I'd be suspicious if none of your reads change in the next few days. I tend to be paranoid of early town reads as well, because it sometimes feels like people just post town reads to look hunting. You are interacting so we're good. Rhand, not so sure, but he hasn't pinged me yet.
Cantrip comes across super honest, and in (her...? sorry can't remember) way, trying to push the game out of RVS and not let something slide.
As for Shadow, I think scum!Shadow would barn Cantrip with some throw away line, rather than wait for my explanation. The "awakward" explanation is... weird to me, but I know a lot of stuff I say that makes perfect sense doesn't always to others, in real life and here, so...*throws hands in air*
Nothing on Cheesecake so far, but I haven't looked at his posts in isolation.
@Lingerer: why did you address Eco as “SuperTownieEco”?
@GJ: are you talking to me about town reads early? I think I have a town tell on you, and I think Rhand picked up on it as well. But yeah, it’s early, it’s not like I’m at the “bet the game on these reads” stage.
I didn't think you were. Honestly, I'd be suspicious if none of your reads change in the next few days. I tend to be paranoid of early town reads as well, because it sometimes feels like people just post town reads to look hunting. You are interacting so we're good. Rhand, not so sure, but he hasn't pinged me yet.
Now that I think about it, I feel like I’ve correctly town read you specifically early in most of the games we’ve played, and iirc it’s made you uncomfortable every time.
@Shadow, because Ego's first two posts read as supertowny. He could be pocketing me, but right now, think he feels very open and honest (including his last posts).
And maybe I read this game wrong, but I am not sure why multiple people are convinced there are at least 1, if not multiple vanilla roles.
I dont want to involved in mechanical discussion but...for those who are convinced there are at least 1 if not more vanillas... what makes you assume that? Like, I see high complexity, see a relatively simple rule about anonymous messaging, and ase then that complexity is in the roles. If it isn't in the roles... then what?
Eh...keep grimacing like that and your face may freeze that way.
Quote from Lng »
Finally Cantrip, give me some credit. If I was playfully fishing, then I pretty much am the dumbest player by explicitly asking again at the of my post.
Well, that's sorta why I was asking about your recent games...
Haiku mafia. I pretty much play exclusively on this site. (I played like one or two games years ago on... mafia scum I think.)
...because my other theory was that it had been a while since you rolled scum, and this was scum!you burning off nervous energy in a way you thought might yield information. It's been, what...almost a year and a half since you were scum?
So the real question is "What did town!you expect to come of asking that question?"
@Eco: See above for my thoughts behind LnG fishing when he knows it's bad. And don't tell me that scum haven't been caught for similar/even less, because I know they have. The possibility isn't even a Question in my mind.
For the page 3 cred, even though I admit there's a good chance that I'm probably wrong on at least one of them, I'm going to say that the scum team is LnG, GentlemanJohnny, and Shadow. Come at me, eh, boyos?
Cantrip comes across super honest, and in (her...? sorry can't remember) way, trying to push the game out of RVS and not let something slide.
Oh, I'm he/him/his. And don't sweat not being able to remember. It's...eh...pretty common. Only reason I remember yours is because for the longest time I thought your name referred to Grrl culture, but then you corrected me and now I just remember that it's opposite of that first assumption.
Eh...keep grimacing like that and your face may freeze that way.
Quote from Lng »
Finally Cantrip, give me some credit. If I was playfully fishing, then I pretty much am the dumbest player by explicitly asking again at the of my post.
Well, that's sorta why I was asking about your recent games...
Haiku mafia. I pretty much play exclusively on this site. (I played like one or two games years ago on... mafia scum I think.)
...because my other theory was that it had been a while since you rolled scum, and this was scum!you burning off nervous energy in a way you thought might yield information. It's been, what...almost a year and a half since you were scum?
So the real question is "What did town!you expect to come of asking that question?"
@Eco: See above for my thoughts behind LnG fishing when he knows it's bad. And don't tell me that scum haven't been caught for similar/even less, because I know they have. The possibility isn't even a Question in my mind.
For the page 3 cred, even though I admit there's a good chance that I'm probably wrong on at least one of them, I'm going to say that the scum team is LnG, GentlemanJohnny, and Shadow. Come at me, eh, boyos?
@GrapeMod: Votecount, pls?
You just took the top 3 posters, and put them on your wolf list, didn't you?
Sheer coincidence, I am sure then. And considering you haven't really shared anything about me McCarthy, I have to make assumptions. You LnGr read didn't surprise me though.
@Shadow, because Ego's first two posts read as supertowny. He could be pocketing me, but right now, think he feels very open and honest (including his last posts).
As amusing as it is, pretty edgy for Cantrip to say that 3/4 other active voices in the chat with him are wolves, even if he did it in a super hedgey way. I don't think I have ever seen cantrip wolf though, so I don't know how meta it is, but he also feels solvey.
Sheer coincidence, I am sure then. And considering you haven't really shared anything about me McCarthy, I have to make assumptions. You LnGr read didn't surprise me though.
How many non-responses from me is it going to take before you actually ask me my reasons, eh? You really are scum, aren't you? Oh I am going to be SO STOKED if I finally pulled off a D1 trifecta. I mean...I probably haven't. But if I have....oh, I'll be more intolerable than Iso. (Hi, Iso!)
@Cantrip: To catch wolves and not get lyncheddraw the NK. Seriously, I don’t get NK’d, I was a cop cleared roleblocker in a game and didn’t get killed.
Fixed that for you. I don't care if you "never" get NK'd. If you're VT, you DON'T make post 68 (specifically YOU, Shadow, but also any generally experienced VT). But it's an excellently subtle way to later explain why you haven't been NK'd. By the way, if I were scum, you'd have a very very strong chance of getting NK'd because you've proven that you're extremely adept at sussing my alignment. (There you go. If you ARE town, I just bought you some survival wifom. You're welcome.)
@Shadow, it is preventing rand from asking busy work questions and trying to get the thought process behind it. IE. when I asked cantrip about his question to you, he shared it freely and without hesitation.
Also, I believe your claim, but that makes me even more confused.
Finally, Cantrip pushing so hard on me feels towny because if he gets me mislynched, he would be (I hope) under a good deal of scrutiny. Maybe other people are fine enough playing scum to do that, but I wouldn't be.
@Cantrip, forgot to mention, low fantasy was my last scum game. I played pretty well I think, until askthePizzaGuy came in, completely caught me, and I sputtered until end of day and got lynched.
Sheer coincidence, I am sure then. And considering you haven't really shared anything about me McCarthy, I have to make assumptions. You LnGr read didn't surprise me though.
How many non-responses from me is it going to take before you actually ask me my reasons, eh? You really are scum, aren't you? Oh I am going to be SO STOKED if I finally pulled off a D1 trifecta. I mean...I probably haven't. But if I have....oh, I'll be more intolerable than Iso. (Hi, Iso!)
@Cantrip: To catch wolves and not get lyncheddraw the NK. Seriously, I don’t get NK’d, I was a cop cleared roleblocker in a game and didn’t get killed.
Fixed that for you. I don't care if you "never" get NK'd. If you're VT, you DON'T make post 68 (specifically YOU, Shadow, but also any generally experienced VT). But it's an excellently subtle way to later explain why you haven't been NK'd. By the way, if I were scum, you'd have a very very strong chance of getting NK'd because you've proven that you're extremely adept at sussing my alignment. (There you go. If you ARE town, I just bought you some survival wifom. You're welcome.)
@Eco: Can you explain the town mindset behind LGr's fishing?
Townies are dumb? It's not like I think it was a townie thing to do, or that there was a good reason for it, but I think fishing (and especially the obvious kind that is essentially asking "power roles please raise your hands") is within the same set of scumtells as OMGUS and WIFOM - things people like to vote over but are very low-value as scum tells.
@Eco: Can you explain the town mindset behind LGr's fishing?
Townies are dumb? It's not like I think it was a townie thing to do, or that there was a good reason for it, but I think fishing (and especially the obvious kind that is essentially asking "power roles please raise your hands") is within the same set of scumtells as OMGUS and WIFOM - things people like to vote over but are very low-value as scum tells.
They became wolf tells though, because wolves were found to be doing that in past games, would you not agree? The mistake people make is that they assume town never does that.
@LnGrrrR: My question to you might've gotten missed, so I'll ask again: What did you, as town, hope to accomplish with your question about complex roles?
This is an excellent WIFOM post, regardless of your alignment. I tip my hat.
@everyone who has played a game with me in the last 6 months: Tell me I'm wrong
Whoa, sorry, NOT questioning your assertion OR trying to shade. I am genuinely respectful of the exact kind of WIFOM post that a good player makes in this situation, regardless of your alignment. It was intended as a serious compliment.
Townies are dumb? It's not like I think it was a townie thing to do, or that there was a good reason for it, but I think fishing (and especially the obvious kind that is essentially asking "power roles please raise your hands") is within the same set of scumtells as OMGUS and WIFOM - things people like to vote over but are very low-value as scum tells.
When I roll town, I try hard to explicitly avoid those "obvious" scumtells because of the potential to muddy the game waters with suspicions that I'm scum for them. I mostly see LnG on the same general wavelength as me in our general playstyles, so I feel it likely that town!him would do similarly (I probably wouldn't have called certain players, like Tom or kpaca, out as strongly). That's why I feel like it's more likely that LnG is nervous and/or ballsy scum, possibly counting on a white knight such as yourself to go "why would scum do this obv scummy thing?"
1) Get better information on the complexity level.
2) Start a conversation.
3) [Redacted]
I am not so confident to think I can't get mislynched, but I am confident enough to think that if I am mislynched, it will generate information for town and not let scum hide in a "How can you blame me for this vote; he was obvscum!" ploy.
@eco: not trying to shade you, you sidestepped my question entirely and then cast it poorly and I want to know why.
Alright, I'll stop being coy, even though you didn't ask for my reasons, you presumed them and presumed incorrectly. I voted you because I agree with Tom that town Shadow would be more likely to feel loose enough to bandwagon onto Eco with his bro rather than just observe but not join in. I felt that your town reads list was presented at a time when they were starting to acquire town cred and at a time when people were gaining town cred for posting town reads - it looked like an attempt to cash in by committing to the budding consensus and try and get into a town circle. Finally I felt like your vote on LnGrrR was a bit of a setup - you were so keen to see LnGrrR's response, but I don't really agree that's it's forced nonchalance, nor that "oh crap shutting up" would be a more likely thing for a townie to do. So the vote looks opportunistic after intentionally avoiding straight following Cantrip.
Cantrip comes across super honest, and in (her...? sorry can't remember) way, trying to push the game out of RVS and not let something slide.
As for Shadow, I think scum!Shadow would barn Cantrip with some throw away line, rather than wait for my explanation. The "awakward" explanation is... weird to me, but I know a lot of stuff I say that makes perfect sense doesn't always to others, in real life and here, so...*throws hands in air*
Nothing on Cheesecake so far, but I haven't looked at his posts in isolation.
*Squints* Can't tell if attempting to appease attackers or genuninely understanding their motivations.
@Eco: See above for my thoughts behind LnG fishing when he knows it's bad. And don't tell me that scum haven't been caught for similar/even less, because I know they have. The possibility isn't even a Question in my mind.
I don't quite agree - scum get caught off less, but I think they still get caught off more nuance (even if that nuance is "they tried to make a RVS joke that betrayed uncharacterstic nervousness *ahem*). I just don't think scum would basically ask "hey gang who is power" and expect it to a) reveal anything or b) fail to get noticed. Or rather, I don't really believe that you believe that as strongly as you say you do.
But right now, I'm working on a soft un-aligned between Shadow and Cantrip (since this is too much theatre and I don't think they'd want to both tie themselves by consecutive voting at this stage), so I guess I'll leave it and see how Cantrip's convictions in this matter evolve.
I was thinking it's Cantrip / Shadow / ? until Cantrip went after Shadow. That doesn't feel like scum/scum.
I think I misjudged Shadow's townblock post. It felt to me like he saw me creating a townblock and wanted in on that by adding my name to my own townreads. But probably it was just mindmeld and we do have the same reads.
Cantrip is likely scum for jumping on Lngr for the fishing. Lngr does know better and would never make a post like that as scum. I think Cantrip jumped on the low-hanging fruit there.
vote Cantripmancer
Where I am at now:
Town:
SleepyCheesecake
Gentleman Johnny
LnGrrrR
Nah, the moment has passed. First tell me what you think of my observations on Shadow's VT "slip", eh?
I enjoy playing coy as much as the next person, but I don't appreciate this level of play. I am going to go back to assuming you just threw the top 3 posts onto your wolf list and ran with it. It implies that you think you have been interacting with all three wolves at the same time, and when you decide to vote and justify there, maybe I'll change my mind.
As far as Shadow's slip. You aren't wrong about a VT's role, and Shadow is legit frustrated (whether it's town or wolf motivated is up for debate). I think if he is what he claimed, he better start hunting to show for it, because his job now is to be a reading god, and threatening enough where he would be shot due to a fear.
I also think you are reading it a tad too literally. Don't bother asking what I mean here. If you understand what I mean, you will accept that answer.
They became wolf tells though, because wolves were found to be doing that in past games, would you not agree? The mistake people make is that they assume town never does that.
In danger of veering to far into abstract theory, I don't agree. They become seen as wolf tells because they're the sort of thing people thinki wolves do, without necessarily actually having support in practise.
I kind of sympathize with LnGr, because that's how I used to play. I felt like I read better when people were focused on me. What I didn't understand back then though is that if you are town doing that, it ends up distracting townies from other people to legit hunt, because they are now caught up with your posts. Even if they leave you alone, you still have this suspicioun about you that makes leaving PoE really difficult. LnGr town read is mostly soul, + TWTBW, but that's what I am seeing there.
I was thinking it's Cantrip / Shadow / ? until Cantrip went after Shadow. That doesn't feel like scum/scum.
I think I misjudged Shadow's townblock post. It felt to me like he saw me creating a townblock and wanted in on that by adding my name to my own townreads. But probably it was just mindmeld and we do have the same reads.
Cantrip is likely scum for jumping on Lngr for the fishing. Lngr does know better and would never make a post like that as scum. I think Cantrip jumped on the low-hanging fruit there.
vote Cantripmancer
Where I am at now:
Town:
SleepyCheesecake
Gentleman Johnny
LnGrrrR
Lean town:
Ecophagy
Shadowlancerx
Rumanshi
Null:
Highroller
tomsloger
Vaimes
Azrael
Scum:
Cantripmancer
While I don't hate your list, I don't think Cantrip's list for wolves was hunting for LHF.
Do you think it’s possible he just thought it was Role madness?
Sure, but even if he did, asking "who thinks they have the most complicated role" is still fishing, and bad. And I'm pretty sure he knows better, eh? Like, the first attempt ("any way to donate coins in this game") I could have seen as somewhat innocent, pro-town. But this isn't.
But you feel like it was more likely an innocent mistake, eh?
This post is why I don't think Cantrip is doing this from a town!mindset.
He says "And I'm pretty sure he knows better, eh?", which means he assumes Lngr knows fishing is bad. In that case, Lngr would never make that post as scum. Ergo, he is town. And Cantrip knows it but chooses to push him for it anyways.
1) Get better information on the complexity level.
2) Start a conversation.
3) [Redacted]
I am not so confident to think I can't get mislynched, but I am confident enough to think that if I am mislynched, it will generate information for town and not let scum hide in a "How can you blame me for this vote; he was obvscum!" ploy.
So...am I scum attacking you for being "obvscum"? How does whatever you might gain from #1 outweigh the potential information that scum could gain (not specific roles, but who is more/less likely to be power)?
@Cantrip: 68 wasn’t a “slip” it was trying to get lng to take a hint, as well as being a breadcrumb in the event I needed to claim.
That's no breadcrumb, that's a whole loaf! Seriously, how is "I know for a fact this game has vanillas" when there is no confirmation in the OP, not even a sample role PM that the game has vanillas, saying ANYTHING other than "oh, hey, VT here!"? A "hint"? C'mon, pull my other leg.
Raaaaar, spicy! Bring it, Trophy Boy. Marriage must be agreeing with you because THE CONFIDENCE. But you gotta do you, so vote where you feel the need and we'll see how the Day plays out. In the meantime, what do you think of Shadow claiming VT the way he did?
I enjoy playing coy as much as the next person, but I don't appreciate this level of play. I am going to go back to assuming you just threw the top 3 posts onto your wolf list and ran with it. It implies that you think you have been interacting with all three wolves at the same time, and when you decide to vote and justify there, maybe I'll change my mind.
Carp. I *did* cross over into annoying. Truly wasn't my intent, sorry. Ah well.
I suspect you the lightest of the three, and that's heavily dependent on LnGrrrR flipping scum. Your initial response to LnGrrrR in 57 wasn't bad, but 59 and 60 felt like possible coaching (I mean, at that point, I feel like you should have just come out and said "your question is bad and you should feel bad and either you're fishing or you're helping scum figure out power roles"). It was 72 that made me most suspicious because after multiple wrist slaps on LnG, as soon as I stepped in with serious suspicion you were like "oh yeah, /barn Cantrip, as though I hadn't already been dancing around the issue for several posts". That you took a moment to distance from a player I already had suspicions on was gravy.
Quote from GJ »
As far as Shadow's slip. You aren't wrong about a VT's role, and Shadow is legit frustrated (whether it's town or wolf motivated is up for debate). I think if he is what he claimed, he better start hunting to show for it, because his job now is to be a reading god, and threatening enough where he would be shot due to a fear.
...the point was for you to weigh in on whether you thought it was town or wolf motivated, eh? That you abstained from that response completely is noted.
Quote from GJ »
I also think you are reading it a tad too literally. Don't bother asking what I mean here. If you understand what I mean, you will accept that answer.
I don't know that I know exactly what you mean, but if I do, I accept your answer.
I kind of sympathize with LnGr, because that's how I used to play. I felt like I read better when people were focused on me. What I didn't understand back then though is that if you are town doing that, it ends up distracting townies from other people to legit hunt, because they are now caught up with your posts. Even if they leave you alone, you still have this suspicioun about you that makes leaving PoE really difficult. LnGr town read is mostly soul, + TWTBW, but that's what I am seeing there.
Hmm, I could see this, perhaps. If you're town, thanks for the perspective.
This post is why I don't think Cantrip is doing this from a town!mindset.
He says "And I'm pretty sure he knows better, eh?", which means he assumes Lngr knows fishing is bad. In that case, Lngr would never make that post as scum. Ergo, he is town. And Cantrip knows it but chooses to push him for it anyways.
Nope, opposite. I don't think LnG would make that post as town.
I didn't read in-depth but I got a townread on Eco out of my skim.
Hi GJ, try not to let your sore loser syndrome affect your totally real scumread on me, yeah?
Eh....why are you skimming on the first real life day of the first game Day when there's only a hundred posts since your last post? Or rather, why did you feel the need to pop in, [captain obvious observation], [random generic townread], [snarky unproductive response]? As opposed to something thoughtful and constructive that actually touches on current events?
Hi GJ, try not to let your sore loser syndrome affect your totally real scumread on me, yeah?
Eh....why are you skimming on the first real life day of the first game Day when there's only a hundred posts since your last post? Or rather, why did you feel the need to pop in, [captain obvious observation], [random generic townread], [snarky unproductive response]? As opposed to something thoughtful and constructive that actually touches on current events?[/quote]
Are you in a bad mood or something Cantrip? You're being kind of snippy, but I don't really associate that with you as either alignment under the current very minimal pressure you're under.
Random hottake: Cantrip is intentionally trying to play in a feisty manner to mask his alignment from the likes of myself/Tom. Which, scum!cantrip would obviously feel the need to do, but town!cantrip may also attempt it for the sake of it.
Random hottake: Cantrip is intentionally trying to play in a feisty manner to mask his alignment from the likes of myself/Tom. Which, scum!cantrip would obviously feel the need to do, but town!cantrip may also attempt it for the sake of it.
Yes, but with the burner phone mechanism in the game, we will be able to share private info more so than a normal game. I think I have made it pretty obvious that I am willing to give away coin/s, and if someone has something that works off that they can message me if a) they have a coin and b) they don't want to do so publicly.
And it is for funsies. I am still having fun
Finally Cantrip, give me some credit. If I was playfully fishing, then I pretty much am the dumbest player by explicitly asking again at the of my post.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Haiku mafia. I pretty much play exclusively on this site. (I played like one or two games years ago on... mafia scum I think.)
I also played Zero Escape, Low fantasy, and replaced in late to Silence of the Lambs. There might be one I am missing in between there.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
That's not the only reason, nor did you ask for them. But nice shade attempt.
Becuase I find it Questionable that you believe so strongly that scum would be so obvious. Does LnGrrR really srike you as the type of person to play riskily or think he can get away with things?
Since you have apparently managed to get some strong feelings out of it, could you explain those more? What about the opposing behaviours of Cantrip and Shadow are towny? Do you have an opinion on Cheescake's alignment?
@GJ: are you talking to me about town reads early? I think I have a town tell on you, and I think Rhand picked up on it as well. But yeah, it’s early, it’s not like I’m at the “bet the game on these reads” stage.
Almost non-existent.
To your other question, what I meant was that in a game where I think there are vanillas, I am probably not going to actively hunt for people who are hinting PR. The issue I had with his question is if a bunch of people have PRs, so will the wolves. I worry that people outing roles will restrict who gets hunted on day 1. I don't like giving people free passes, especially when I don't think there are PRs.
Not used to reading wall posts. So used to the shorter post meta.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I didn't think you were. Honestly, I'd be suspicious if none of your reads change in the next few days. I tend to be paranoid of early town reads as well, because it sometimes feels like people just post town reads to look hunting. You are interacting so we're good. Rhand, not so sure, but he hasn't pinged me yet.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
As for Shadow, I think scum!Shadow would barn Cantrip with some throw away line, rather than wait for my explanation. The "awakward" explanation is... weird to me, but I know a lot of stuff I say that makes perfect sense doesn't always to others, in real life and here, so...*throws hands in air*
Nothing on Cheesecake so far, but I haven't looked at his posts in isolation.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
The GJ way path to no lynching:
And maybe I read this game wrong, but I am not sure why multiple people are convinced there are at least 1, if not multiple vanilla roles.
I dont want to involved in mechanical discussion but...for those who are convinced there are at least 1 if not more vanillas... what makes you assume that? Like, I see high complexity, see a relatively simple rule about anonymous messaging, and ase then that complexity is in the roles. If it isn't in the roles... then what?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Well, that's sorta why I was asking about your recent games...
...because my other theory was that it had been a while since you rolled scum, and this was scum!you burning off nervous energy in a way you thought might yield information. It's been, what...almost a year and a half since you were scum?
So the real question is "What did town!you expect to come of asking that question?"
@Eco: See above for my thoughts behind LnG fishing when he knows it's bad. And don't tell me that scum haven't been caught for similar/even less, because I know they have. The possibility isn't even a Question in my mind.
For the page 3 cred, even though I admit there's a good chance that I'm probably wrong on at least one of them, I'm going to say that the scum team is LnG, GentlemanJohnny, and Shadow. Come at me, eh, boyos?
@GrapeMod: Votecount, pls?
You just took the top 3 posters, and put them on your wolf list, didn't you?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@cantrip: O.o
I am Vanilla Town. That’s how I know there are Vanilla Town.
-_-
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Hey, Shadow, what's the number one job of VT?
Uh-huh.
Sheer coincidence, I am sure then. And considering you haven't really shared anything about me McCarthy, I have to make assumptions. You LnGr read didn't surprise me though.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Good vibes from Cheesecake.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Conversely, I always get shot. If I live past night 2, I am probably a wolf.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Fixed that for you. I don't care if you "never" get NK'd. If you're VT, you DON'T make post 68 (specifically YOU, Shadow, but also any generally experienced VT). But it's an excellently subtle way to later explain why you haven't been NK'd. By the way, if I were scum, you'd have a very very strong chance of getting NK'd because you've proven that you're extremely adept at sussing my alignment. (There you go. If you ARE town, I just bought you some survival wifom. You're welcome.)
This is an excellent WIFOM post, regardless of your alignment. I tip my hat.
Also, I believe your claim, but that makes me even more confused.
Finally, Cantrip pushing so hard on me feels towny because if he gets me mislynched, he would be (I hope) under a good deal of scrutiny. Maybe other people are fine enough playing scum to do that, but I wouldn't be.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
You're going to be annoying this game, aren't you?
Fine, what are your reasons for thinking I am a wolf?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@everyone who has played a game with me in the last 6 months: Tell me I'm wrong
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Townies are dumb? It's not like I think it was a townie thing to do, or that there was a good reason for it, but I think fishing (and especially the obvious kind that is essentially asking "power roles please raise your hands") is within the same set of scumtells as OMGUS and WIFOM - things people like to vote over but are very low-value as scum tells.
They became wolf tells though, because wolves were found to be doing that in past games, would you not agree? The mistake people make is that they assume town never does that.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I hope I stop just short of annoying, but yeah, possibly.
Nah, the moment has passed. First tell me what you think of my observations on Shadow's VT "slip", eh?
Whoa, sorry, NOT questioning your assertion OR trying to shade. I am genuinely respectful of the exact kind of WIFOM post that a good player makes in this situation, regardless of your alignment. It was intended as a serious compliment.
When I roll town, I try hard to explicitly avoid those "obvious" scumtells because of the potential to muddy the game waters with suspicions that I'm scum for them. I mostly see LnG on the same general wavelength as me in our general playstyles, so I feel it likely that town!him would do similarly (I probably wouldn't have called certain players, like Tom or kpaca, out as strongly). That's why I feel like it's more likely that LnG is nervous and/or ballsy scum, possibly counting on a white knight such as yourself to go "why would scum do this obv scummy thing?"
1) Get better information on the complexity level.
2) Start a conversation.
3) [Redacted]
I am not so confident to think I can't get mislynched, but I am confident enough to think that if I am mislynched, it will generate information for town and not let scum hide in a "How can you blame me for this vote; he was obvscum!" ploy.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Alright, I'll stop being coy, even though you didn't ask for my reasons, you presumed them and presumed incorrectly. I voted you because I agree with Tom that town Shadow would be more likely to feel loose enough to bandwagon onto Eco with his bro rather than just observe but not join in. I felt that your town reads list was presented at a time when they were starting to acquire town cred and at a time when people were gaining town cred for posting town reads - it looked like an attempt to cash in by committing to the budding consensus and try and get into a town circle. Finally I felt like your vote on LnGrrR was a bit of a setup - you were so keen to see LnGrrR's response, but I don't really agree that's it's forced nonchalance, nor that "oh crap shutting up" would be a more likely thing for a townie to do. So the vote looks opportunistic after intentionally avoiding straight following Cantrip.
Great work. What were you trying to achieve by heavily implying it and now confirming it? How does this benefit the town?
*Squints* Can't tell if attempting to appease attackers or genuninely understanding their motivations.
I don't quite agree - scum get caught off less, but I think they still get caught off more nuance (even if that nuance is "they tried to make a RVS joke that betrayed uncharacterstic nervousness *ahem*). I just don't think scum would basically ask "hey gang who is power" and expect it to a) reveal anything or b) fail to get noticed. Or rather, I don't really believe that you believe that as strongly as you say you do.
But right now, I'm working on a soft un-aligned between Shadow and Cantrip (since this is too much theatre and I don't think they'd want to both tie themselves by consecutive voting at this stage), so I guess I'll leave it and see how Cantrip's convictions in this matter evolve.
@Eco: ask me that question again on D2.
I was thinking it's Cantrip / Shadow / ? until Cantrip went after Shadow. That doesn't feel like scum/scum.
I think I misjudged Shadow's townblock post. It felt to me like he saw me creating a townblock and wanted in on that by adding my name to my own townreads. But probably it was just mindmeld and we do have the same reads.
Cantrip is likely scum for jumping on Lngr for the fishing. Lngr does know better and would never make a post like that as scum. I think Cantrip jumped on the low-hanging fruit there.
vote Cantripmancer
Where I am at now:
Town:
SleepyCheesecake
Gentleman Johnny
LnGrrrR
Lean town:
Ecophagy
Shadowlancerx
Rumanshi
Null:
Highroller
tomsloger
Vaimes
Azrael
Scum:
Cantripmancer
I enjoy playing coy as much as the next person, but I don't appreciate this level of play. I am going to go back to assuming you just threw the top 3 posts onto your wolf list and ran with it. It implies that you think you have been interacting with all three wolves at the same time, and when you decide to vote and justify there, maybe I'll change my mind.
As far as Shadow's slip. You aren't wrong about a VT's role, and Shadow is legit frustrated (whether it's town or wolf motivated is up for debate). I think if he is what he claimed, he better start hunting to show for it, because his job now is to be a reading god, and threatening enough where he would be shot due to a fear.
I also think you are reading it a tad too literally. Don't bother asking what I mean here. If you understand what I mean, you will accept that answer.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
In danger of veering to far into abstract theory, I don't agree. They become seen as wolf tells because they're the sort of thing people thinki wolves do, without necessarily actually having support in practise.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
While I don't hate your list, I don't think Cantrip's list for wolves was hunting for LHF.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
This post is why I don't think Cantrip is doing this from a town!mindset.
He says "And I'm pretty sure he knows better, eh?", which means he assumes Lngr knows fishing is bad. In that case, Lngr would never make that post as scum. Ergo, he is town. And Cantrip knows it but chooses to push him for it anyways.
That's no breadcrumb, that's a whole loaf! Seriously, how is "I know for a fact this game has vanillas" when there is no confirmation in the OP, not even a sample role PM that the game has vanillas, saying ANYTHING other than "oh, hey, VT here!"? A "hint"? C'mon, pull my other leg.
Raaaaar, spicy! Bring it, Trophy Boy. Marriage must be agreeing with you because THE CONFIDENCE. But you gotta do you, so vote where you feel the need and we'll see how the Day plays out. In the meantime, what do you think of Shadow claiming VT the way he did?
Carp. I *did* cross over into annoying. Truly wasn't my intent, sorry. Ah well.
I suspect you the lightest of the three, and that's heavily dependent on LnGrrrR flipping scum. Your initial response to LnGrrrR in 57 wasn't bad, but 59 and 60 felt like possible coaching (I mean, at that point, I feel like you should have just come out and said "your question is bad and you should feel bad and either you're fishing or you're helping scum figure out power roles"). It was 72 that made me most suspicious because after multiple wrist slaps on LnG, as soon as I stepped in with serious suspicion you were like "oh yeah, /barn Cantrip, as though I hadn't already been dancing around the issue for several posts". That you took a moment to distance from a player I already had suspicions on was gravy.
...the point was for you to weigh in on whether you thought it was town or wolf motivated, eh? That you abstained from that response completely is noted.
I don't know that I know exactly what you mean, but if I do, I accept your answer.
Hmm, I could see this, perhaps. If you're town, thanks for the perspective.
Nope, opposite. I don't think LnG would make that post as town.
I didn't read in-depth but I got a townread on Eco out of my skim.
Hi GJ, try not to let your sore loser syndrome affect your totally real scumread on me, yeah?
Eh....why are you skimming on the first real life day of the first game Day when there's only a hundred posts since your last post? Or rather, why did you feel the need to pop in, [captain obvious observation], [random generic townread], [snarky unproductive response]? As opposed to something thoughtful and constructive that actually touches on current events?
Are you in a bad mood or something Cantrip? You're being kind of snippy, but I don't really associate that with you as either alignment under the current very minimal pressure you're under.
Would be keen to hear Tom's take on this