I'm simply asking you to explain what we can gain from it except the line of saying "Well he was scumreading KJ so that's a reason he died" or something of that nature. Because that's wine.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Oooh. Osie. In your first post you say there's a risk in you claiming Miller, then in your next post you say you don't lose much by claiming. Reconcile those for me will you?
I'll continue devouring everyone's ISOs and see where that leads me.
It's a pretty small risk, but either vig role could have gone for me, and either way scum would get a free death.
%%%
I'm just going to open logic out the game as if I'm Anak instead of myself:
Anak is town.
Osie has been on LnGrrrR as scum the entire game since post 50. He's voting LnGrrrR right now, and they are both voting. They are not a team.
Osie and Rhand are not a team by Rhand's own admission; they could have hammered Killjoy at any point now.
The only team that works with Osie in it is Osie+Killjoy, which is probably not a team because they haven't interacted anything like scum partners this game.
So Osie is either clear or (unlikely) specifically scum with Killjoy.
(Probably) one town in Killjoy/Rhand/LnGrrrR.
Killjoy and Rhand would have hammered LnGrrrR.
Killjoy and LnGrrrR is unlikely since scum LnGrrrR never puts his vote on Killjoy in LyLO, and their interactions today are nothing like scum partners.
That leaves Rhand and LnGrrrR as the most likely team, with no particular reason why they couldn't be a team.
I was the alignment cop, and I chose Cantrip because he was getting rolling and when he does he posts so much that I have a hard time discerning his alignment through all the words. Turns out he's town. But we all know that now. Boooo
If I interpret votes right so far Rhand can only be scum with Lng? So I would rather look at lngrrr, and so far I haven't seen anything that says yes can't be scum even if I ignore Osies claim. Any vote interactions I missed with him?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm simply asking you to explain what we can gain from it except the line of saying "Well he was scumreading KJ so that's a reason he died" or something of that nature. Because that's wine.
Sure, WIFOM about the kill. But you don't throw out dead townie reads completely.
Rest of town, let me go through the game. I don't know if the last scum is Rhand or Osie, but let me at least try to present a case on KJ, and then if you still vote me... well I went down swinging, so at least I won't feel bad when we lose.
I'm simply asking you to explain what we can gain from it except the line of saying "Well he was scumreading KJ so that's a reason he died" or something of that nature. Because that's wine.
Sure, WIFOM about the kill. But you don't throw out dead townie reads completely.
Rest of town, let me go through the game. I don't know if the last scum is Rhand or Osie, but let me at least try to present a case on KJ, and then if you still vote me... well I went down swinging, so at least I won't feel bad when we lose.
I'm not the one WIFOMING here. I literally have asked you multiple times to give me a situation where dead town reads are relevant aside from determining who might have killed them. You are refusing to answer.
If you wanna 1v1, lets go. Given that I haven't been hammered by Osie/Rhand, there's no situation that means you're not scum. Lets do this.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KJ, like... you're asking me why what dead townies have said in game matters. Like... if you don't think what dead townies have said matters, then I assume you think scum just yolo NK every game, every night?
And the way you're phrasing it makes me think you are trying to turn it around on me. You phrase it "aside from determining who might have killed them" instead of "aside from TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO THE SCUM IS", which is the important bit. Because you know if I fall into this trap, "Yes it's important to find out who killed them", then you know you can spin it as me trying to create WIFOM.
I'm down for 1 v 1. I don't know who the other scum is between Rhand and Osie, but I can figure that out toMorrow.
So you ARE saying you think they're dead for their reads. That's my point. That whole thought process is wine.
Like, did Cantrip die for scumreading me? Did Cantrip successfully block the NK? You also brought up Shadow, which you admit likely shot Anak. But you still want to 'consider his reads' depsite the fact that they have 0% chance to do with my alignment. And if you wanna play that game, Cantrip's doesn't either. He was the Bodyguard, and therefore could have died due to blocking the NK.
Like, you're literally expecting me to care about their reads when their reads were wrong. I'm not scum. Why do you expect me to care about their reads?
Also, I'm saying "aside from determining who might have killed them" because I cannot think of another reason for anyone to consider dead town reads. I was asking you for something UNREALATED TO THAT and you come back with THAT. If you can't think of another reason, then show me it's not wine. You can't, because it is.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I guess the biggest thing is he's pushing without probing. He asks some questions but they're not connected to each other, nor really connected to his reads in 177.
In 181 he admits his original reasons for scumreading me aren't correct (I'm doing things) but maintains the read (But here's why what he's doing is scummy.). He then says that he highly doubts myself and Rhand are scum together... which he then retracts when I ask him who my buddy is. It might also be worth noting that he didn't go into thinking of teams (only trying to lynch me, which scum would need to do to win) with so many people eliminated from the lynchpool but that I'm less sure of.
His recent push is for my saying "dead town don't matter" which I've explained already multiple times. I keep asking him to give me non wine reasons to consider the opinions of dead townies but he won't give them. Shadow's scumread on me doesn't mean I'm scum. Nor did Cantrip's. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this at this point.
He finally admits in his recent posts that he IS in fact making the point that he thinks I'm scum because he thinks I killed Cantrip. That's wine.
I have an idea but not sure about protocol in an open role game. All I will say is I think Osie is lying in a towny way.
Worthy of note here makes me think that Osie/LngrrR is less likely. It's weird for scum to call their partner a liar. If Osie flips then LnGrrR looks bad because then there's the question about whether he KNEW Osie was lying.
There's some stuff in Rhand's ISO that supports Rhand/LnGrrR. I still need to pour over Osie's ISO to check for evidence of LnGrrR/Osie. I do know that Osie keeps making posts that try to paint himself as town in an unnatural way that I'm actively disliking. That can wait though. LnGrrR is never not scum here so I want to focus on him first.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Except that without Shadow's reads, we wouldn't all be town-reading Anak, would we? The whole point we know Anak is likely town is because Shadow was scum reading and came up with the whole despy plan which proves that Anak is likely town! *Charlie Brown cry of frustration*
AND YOU BEING SCUM DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DID THE NK. Like, maybe you guys killed Cantrip because you snuffed out that Shadow was a despy and figured he was going to shoot Anak and off himself. Or maybe you guys killed some random person and Cantrip blocked the NK. The reason for why you chose the NK is the WIFOM. But that is one decision point, and doesn't spell to the larger point of being scummy.
When people flip town, it means they were telling the truth. Sure, they can be wrong sometimes. But at the least, we know they aren't scum, so their thoughts/words/etc are more trustworthy than any player who isn't confirmed (or nearly confirmed as Anak in this game) town.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And if you say, "But I am town and so they're wrong" for goodness sakes if the rest of town doesnt jump on you for being blatant scum I will lose my mind.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Seriously though, sure. Dead townies can be wrong. But there's a big difference in taking their words with a caveat and ignoring them completely. Scum kill people who are onto them more often than not. Scum kill good players. Etc etc. Scum don't just fire blindly into are vacuum.
Think of a coin flip. I can't predict 100% what a specific coin flip will be. But I can give you the general odds. I can tell you exactly why scum made a specific NK, but there is usually some reasoning behind it.
Ugh. This feels like a super obvious concept and you are gaslight ingredients me on it and making me sound like scum. Bravo if you mislynch me on this, because I can't even think of how to explain this better. It is like arguing why water is good for you, and you arguing that because you can drown in water, water is therefore bad.
I do know that Osie keeps making posts that try to paint himself as town in an unnatural way that I'm actively disliking.
Heh. Yeah. That wasn't the point, but I did notice that while making the posts and thought "Oh, Killjoy's probably going to get scum pings from this. Oh well."
Seriously though, sure. Dead townies can be wrong. But there's a big difference in taking their words with a caveat and ignoring them completely. Scum kill people who are onto them more often than not. Scum kill good players. Etc etc. Scum don't just fire blindly into are vacuum.
Think of a coin flip. I can't predict 100% what a specific coin flip will be. But I can give you the general odds. I can tell you exactly why scum made a specific NK, but there is usually some reasoning behind it.
Ugh. This feels like a super obvious concept and you are gaslight ingredients me on it and making me sound like scum. Bravo if you mislynch me on this, because I can't even think of how to explain this better. It is like arguing why water is good for you, and you arguing that because you can drown in water, water is therefore bad.
Hey LnGrrrR, who's scum with Killjoy? You've been treating me as town and Rhand as the other scum this day phase so far. But Killjoy-Rhand isn't a team because you'd be dead and the game would be over in that scenario.
Seriously though, sure. Dead townies can be wrong. But there's a big difference in taking their words with a caveat and ignoring them completely. Scum kill people who are onto them more often than not. Scum kill good players. Etc etc. Scum don't just fire blindly into are vacuum.
Think of a coin flip. I can't predict 100% what a specific coin flip will be. But I can give you the general odds. I can tell you exactly why scum made a specific NK, but there is usually some reasoning behind it.
Ugh. This feels like a super obvious concept and you are gaslight ingredients me on it and making me sound like scum. Bravo if you mislynch me on this, because I can't even think of how to explain this better. It is like arguing why water is good for you, and you arguing that because you can drown in water, water is therefore bad.
I didn't to ignore them completely. If they said something important, sure. Shadwow's Despo target, for instance.
But there's only so much you can do with their reads that's not just wine.
There's no mechanical way to determine how the night actions went this game, so attempting to pursue me on that stage is frivolous.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You probably will be waiting a little bit. I have homework. But plus side, I actually got the weekend off and I won't sound next week with 11 hour days! So... hurray.
Osie, explain? I am not tracking. as far as I can tell, KJ is the only one voting. Unless they both posted before your unvote. Still, both scum coordinating in a short time span isn't a given, especially since Rhand lives in Europe like me.
I mean, if you're right then I guess you are scum? *shrug* If you are ready swing me to go along with my own mislynch, I don't think you will find much traction there on my part.
@KJ, so do you only take trust mechanical aspects, but not reads?
And again, I am not attempting to determine the night actions! See, this is what I am talking about. Every time I say I trust Shadow and Cantrip's reads, you turn around and say, "The NK is wifom". Then I say it is not about just that, and you try to turn it back around to that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Osie, explain? I am not tracking. as far as I can tell, KJ is the only one voting. Unless they both posted before your unvote. Still, both scum coordinating in a short time span isn't a given, especially since Rhand lives in Europe like me.
Osie, explain? I am not tracking. as far as I can tell, KJ is the only one voting. Unless they both posted before your unvote. Still, both scum coordinating in a short time span isn't a given, especially since Rhand lives in Europe like me.
Osie, explain? I am not tracking. as far as I can tell, KJ is the only one voting. Unless they both posted before your unvote. Still, both scum coordinating in a short time span isn't a given, especially since Rhand lives in Europe like me.
You are currently voting for Killjoy.
I am currently voting for you.
You can remove Anak from the picture since he's conf!town and not voting. So that leaves KJ/LnGrrrR/Osie/Rhand, with the same majority vote number as if Anak was around.
The fact that scum Rhand+KJ haven't hammered town you in over 24 hours despite every living player posting means at least one of you or me HAS to be scum.
I can't be scum with Rhand, or we would have hammered Killjoy by now.
You are extremely unlikely to be scum with me or Killjoy behaviorally.
I am (a little less) unlikely to be scum with Killjoy behaviorally.
Osie, explain? I am not tracking. as far as I can tell, KJ is the only one voting. Unless they both posted before your unvote. Still, both scum coordinating in a short time span isn't a given, especially since Rhand lives in Europe like me.
You are currently voting for Killjoy.
I am currently voting for you.
You can remove Anak from the picture since he's conf!town and not voting. So that leaves KJ/LnGrrrR/Osie/Rhand, with the same majority vote number as if Anak was around.
The fact that scum Rhand+KJ haven't hammered town you in over 24 hours despite every living player posting means at least one of you or me HAS to be scum.
I can't be scum with Rhand, or we would have hammered Killjoy by now.
You are extremely unlikely to be scum with me or Killjoy behaviorally.
I am (a little less) unlikely to be scum with Killjoy behaviorally.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm not trying to clear myself, just saying this is how one solves the game at this point. Here's walkthroughs from every player's point of view as if that player was town (at least at the start of the walkthrough):
KJ/LnGrrrR/Osie/Rhand
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted and it's been over 60 hours, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + KJ mechanically not scum together.
Rhand + Osie mechanically not scum together.
Osie and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
KJ and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Osie and KJ have not behaved like teammates.
Rhand and LnGrrrR are the most likely team.
Anak is confirmed town.
LnGrrrR/Osie/Rhand
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted and it's been over 60 hours, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + Osie mechanically not scum together.
Osie and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Rhand and LnGrrrR are the most likely team.
Anak is confirmed town.
KJ/Osie/Rhand
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted and it's been over 60 hours, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + KJ mechanically not scum together.
Rhand + Osie mechanically not scum together.
Rhand is conf!town.
Only possible team is Osie+KJ.
BEHAVIORAL CONTRADICTION: LnGrrrR has behaved in Day 2 as if Osie is town and Rhand is the scum with KJ. Also KJ has not behaved as if Osie is his buddy.
Anak is confirmed town.
KJ/LnGrrrR/Rhand
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + KJ mechanically not scum together.
KJ and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Rhand and LnGrrrR are the most likely team.
Anak is confirmed town.
KJ/LnGrrrR/Osie
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Osie and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
KJ and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Osie and KJ have not behaved like teammates.
But one of those worlds is the case. More analysis required.
I think it’s Osie + Lngr. Osie is lying about his scumread on Lngr. He stopped scumreading him from post #173 and is now using “has been on LnGrrrR as scum the entire game since post 50” as a reason to distance himself as buddy.
All his “have not behaved like teammates” repeats are not supported with reasoning.
And he also refuses to explain his second KJ vote in lylo.
Lngr also doesn’t explain his lylo KJ vote.
I’m baffled that it’s my biggest D1 tonwread instead of my biggest D1 scumread, but Osie’s behavior toDay is a sharp contrast with yesterDay’s.
I think it’s Osie + Lngr. Osie is lying about his scumread on Lngr. He stopped scumreading him from post #173 and is now using “has been on LnGrrrR as scum the entire game since post 50” as a reason to distance himself as buddy.
All his “have not behaved like teammates” repeats are not supported with reasoning.
And he also refuses to explain his second KJ vote in lylo.
Lngr also doesn’t explain his lylo KJ vote.
I’m baffled that it’s my biggest D1 tonwread instead of my biggest D1 scumread, but Osie’s behavior toDay is a sharp contrast with yesterDay’s.
Osie has been on LnGrrrR as scum the entire game since post 50. He's voting LnGrrrR right now, and they are both voting. They are not a team.
Osie and Rhand are not a team by Rhand's own admission; they could have hammered Killjoy at any point now.
The only team that works with Osie in it is Osie+Killjoy, which is probably not a team because they haven't interacted anything like scum partners this game.
So Osie is either clear or (unlikely) specifically scum with Killjoy.
(Probably) one town in Killjoy/Rhand/LnGrrrR.
Killjoy and Rhand would have hammered LnGrrrR.
Killjoy and LnGrrrR is unlikely since scum LnGrrrR never puts his vote on Killjoy in LyLO, and their interactions today are nothing like scum partners.
That leaves Rhand and LnGrrrR as the most likely team, with no particular reason why they couldn't be a team.
You can argue that doesn't cover Killjoy + LnGrrrR. Okay.
Killjoy + LnGrrrR are pushing each other in 3-2 LyLO. If they are both scum, that's crazy risky. They can reduce it to 2-1 LyLO afterwards, but that's not exactly the greatest play. Besides, since after the beginning of the day I moved Killjoy from a scumlean up to a strong townread based on his posting, something which LnGrrrR has yet to match.
KJ vote was before a very quick reread of KJ's recent posting.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Osie: when I called you out on lylo voting, you said that the KJ vote was before you realised it was lylo (something I have a hard time believing, but ok), but you voted KJ AGAIN after realising lylo.
Osie is...honestly do you have a mode other than flail?
I am sometimes quicker to act than I should be. I will be the first to admit that. That usually comes from trying to constantly get things done and avoid running into problems due to apathy, be it my own, or more commonly that of others.
@Osie: when I called you out on lylo voting, you said that the KJ vote was before you realised it was lylo (something I have a hard time believing, but ok), but you voted KJ AGAIN after realising lylo.
Yes. That was when I realized that going for my bottom read made the most sense. It just veyr quickly changed from Killjoy to LnGrrrR after over an hour of reading, mostly with his response to that post, hence:
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
All that doesn’t match your claim now that you supposedly were scumreading Lngrrr the whole of yesterDay. Which simply isn’t true.
Oh I found it. #184. So yes, the very end of Day 1 I had a hesistant townlean on LnGrrrR based primarily on someone else's posts, with the potential for LnGrrrR's posts to be okay.
I reversed on LnGrrrR on the condition that Killjoy was scum with Anak. Yeah, that's not a real catch on your part though. And then Anak became conf!town.
That doesn't explain me as scum then going back to pushing him hard today, unless I'm scum with Killjoy. Which isn't the world you're pushing.
Like... since when should town not listen to dead townies? Are you advocating we just ignore everything Shadow and Cantrip said?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It's a pretty small risk, but either vig role could have gone for me, and either way scum would get a free death.
%%%
I'm just going to open logic out the game as if I'm Anak instead of myself:
Anak is town.
Osie has been on LnGrrrR as scum the entire game since post 50. He's voting LnGrrrR right now, and they are both voting. They are not a team.
Osie and Rhand are not a team by Rhand's own admission; they could have hammered Killjoy at any point now.
The only team that works with Osie in it is Osie+Killjoy, which is probably not a team because they haven't interacted anything like scum partners this game.
So Osie is either clear or (unlikely) specifically scum with Killjoy.
(Probably) one town in Killjoy/Rhand/LnGrrrR.
Killjoy and Rhand would have hammered LnGrrrR.
Killjoy and LnGrrrR is unlikely since scum LnGrrrR never puts his vote on Killjoy in LyLO, and their interactions today are nothing like scum partners.
That leaves Rhand and LnGrrrR as the most likely team, with no particular reason why they couldn't be a team.
Come vote LnGrrrR with me, then we can lynch Rhand tomorrow.
If I interpret votes right so far Rhand can only be scum with Lng? So I would rather look at lngrrr, and so far I haven't seen anything that says yes can't be scum even if I ignore Osies claim. Any vote interactions I missed with him?
And Lngr with anyone.
Though unlikely with me.
Osie it's posts like that that make me doubt that its rhand btw.
Fair.
Sure, WIFOM about the kill. But you don't throw out dead townie reads completely.
Rest of town, let me go through the game. I don't know if the last scum is Rhand or Osie, but let me at least try to present a case on KJ, and then if you still vote me... well I went down swinging, so at least I won't feel bad when we lose.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
If you wanna 1v1, lets go. Given that I haven't been hammered by Osie/Rhand, there's no situation that means you're not scum. Lets do this.
Case on you incoming as well.
And the way you're phrasing it makes me think you are trying to turn it around on me. You phrase it "aside from determining who might have killed them" instead of "aside from TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO THE SCUM IS", which is the important bit. Because you know if I fall into this trap, "Yes it's important to find out who killed them", then you know you can spin it as me trying to create WIFOM.
I'm down for 1 v 1. I don't know who the other scum is between Rhand and Osie, but I can figure that out toMorrow.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Like, did Cantrip die for scumreading me? Did Cantrip successfully block the NK? You also brought up Shadow, which you admit likely shot Anak. But you still want to 'consider his reads' depsite the fact that they have 0% chance to do with my alignment. And if you wanna play that game, Cantrip's doesn't either. He was the Bodyguard, and therefore could have died due to blocking the NK.
Like, you're literally expecting me to care about their reads when their reads were wrong. I'm not scum. Why do you expect me to care about their reads?
Also, I'm saying "aside from determining who might have killed them" because I cannot think of another reason for anyone to consider dead town reads. I was asking you for something UNREALATED TO THAT and you come back with THAT. If you can't think of another reason, then show me it's not wine. You can't, because it is.
There's some stuff in Rhand's ISO that supports Rhand/LnGrrR. I still need to pour over Osie's ISO to check for evidence of LnGrrR/Osie. I do know that Osie keeps making posts that try to paint himself as town in an unnatural way that I'm actively disliking. That can wait though. LnGrrR is never not scum here so I want to focus on him first.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
When people flip town, it means they were telling the truth. Sure, they can be wrong sometimes. But at the least, we know they aren't scum, so their thoughts/words/etc are more trustworthy than any player who isn't confirmed (or nearly confirmed as Anak in this game) town.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I said "Dead town don't matter." That makes me scum because ______.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Seriously though, sure. Dead townies can be wrong. But there's a big difference in taking their words with a caveat and ignoring them completely. Scum kill people who are onto them more often than not. Scum kill good players. Etc etc. Scum don't just fire blindly into are vacuum.
Think of a coin flip. I can't predict 100% what a specific coin flip will be. But I can give you the general odds. I can tell you exactly why scum made a specific NK, but there is usually some reasoning behind it.
Ugh. This feels like a super obvious concept and you are gaslight ingredients me on it and making me sound like scum. Bravo if you mislynch me on this, because I can't even think of how to explain this better. It is like arguing why water is good for you, and you arguing that because you can drown in water, water is therefore bad.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Heh. Yeah. That wasn't the point, but I did notice that while making the posts and thought "Oh, Killjoy's probably going to get scum pings from this. Oh well."
Hey LnGrrrR, who's scum with Killjoy? You've been treating me as town and Rhand as the other scum this day phase so far. But Killjoy-Rhand isn't a team because you'd be dead and the game would be over in that scenario.
But there's only so much you can do with their reads that's not just wine.
There's no mechanical way to determine how the night actions went this game, so attempting to pursue me on that stage is frivolous.
I look forward to that case you promised btw.
Osie, explain? I am not tracking. as far as I can tell, KJ is the only one voting. Unless they both posted before your unvote. Still, both scum coordinating in a short time span isn't a given, especially since Rhand lives in Europe like me.
I mean, if you're right then I guess you are scum? *shrug* If you are ready swing me to go along with my own mislynch, I don't think you will find much traction there on my part.
@KJ, so do you only take trust mechanical aspects, but not reads?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Like. Dude. Since they were town, I trust that they weren't lying about their reads. I do not trust that they were accurate.
You are currently voting for Killjoy.
I am currently voting for you.
You can remove Anak from the picture since he's conf!town and not voting. So that leaves KJ/LnGrrrR/Osie/Rhand, with the same majority vote number as if Anak was around.
The fact that scum Rhand+KJ haven't hammered town you in over 24 hours despite every living player posting means at least one of you or me HAS to be scum.
I can't be scum with Rhand, or we would have hammered Killjoy by now.
You are extremely unlikely to be scum with me or Killjoy behaviorally.
I am (a little less) unlikely to be scum with Killjoy behaviorally.
Nothing makes the Rhand+LnGrrrR team unlikely.
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted and it's been over 60 hours, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + KJ mechanically not scum together.
Rhand + Osie mechanically not scum together.
Osie and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
KJ and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Osie and KJ have not behaved like teammates.
Rhand and LnGrrrR are the most likely team.
LnGrrrR/Osie/Rhand
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted and it's been over 60 hours, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + Osie mechanically not scum together.
Osie and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Rhand and LnGrrrR are the most likely team.
KJ/Osie/Rhand
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted and it's been over 60 hours, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + KJ mechanically not scum together.
Rhand + Osie mechanically not scum together.
Rhand is conf!town.
Only possible team is Osie+KJ.
KJ/LnGrrrR/Rhand
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Rhand + KJ mechanically not scum together.
KJ and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Rhand and LnGrrrR are the most likely team.
KJ/LnGrrrR/Osie
Osie is voting LnGrrrR.
LnGrrrR is voting KJ.
All players have posted, so there was plenty of opportunity to hammer.
Osie and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
KJ and LnGrrrR have not behaved like teammates.
Osie and KJ have not behaved like teammates.
But one of those worlds is the case. More analysis required.
See my first longer post on this page.
All his “have not behaved like teammates” repeats are not supported with reasoning.
And he also refuses to explain his second KJ vote in lylo.
Lngr also doesn’t explain his lylo KJ vote.
I’m baffled that it’s my biggest D1 tonwread instead of my biggest D1 scumread, but Osie’s behavior toDay is a sharp contrast with yesterDay’s.
#173 is a Killjoy post.
As for no reasoning...
You can argue that doesn't cover Killjoy + LnGrrrR. Okay.
Killjoy + LnGrrrR are pushing each other in 3-2 LyLO. If they are both scum, that's crazy risky. They can reduce it to 2-1 LyLO afterwards, but that's not exactly the greatest play. Besides, since after the beginning of the day I moved Killjoy from a scumlean up to a strong townread based on his posting, something which LnGrrrR has yet to match.
KJ vote was before a very quick reread of KJ's recent posting.
I am sometimes quicker to act than I should be. I will be the first to admit that. That usually comes from trying to constantly get things done and avoid running into problems due to apathy, be it my own, or more commonly that of others.
Yes. That was when I realized that going for my bottom read made the most sense. It just veyr quickly changed from Killjoy to LnGrrrR after over an hour of reading, mostly with his response to that post, hence:
THE POST YOU POINTED TO WASN'T MINE.
Point to the post where I didn't have LnGrrrR below null and I'll listen.
Oh I found it. #184. So yes, the very end of Day 1 I had a hesistant townlean on LnGrrrR based primarily on someone else's posts, with the potential for LnGrrrR's posts to be okay.
I reversed on LnGrrrR on the condition that Killjoy was scum with Anak. Yeah, that's not a real catch on your part though. And then Anak became conf!town.
That doesn't explain me as scum then going back to pushing him hard today, unless I'm scum with Killjoy. Which isn't the world you're pushing.