Even if you think he's a wolf, there's probably 3-4 other wolves, and we can force him to shoot who we want in future days.
I don't think he's a wolf, but from a mechanical standpoint he's not a good lynch.
His shot has a chance to fail, what's the point of controlling it? Like say we ask him on d3 to shoot someone who we all strongly believe is scum and he does it. If the shot misses what then? He listened at the risk of shooting his own partner.
Mechanically he could be a scum aligned day vig though.
/barn what RE said about the Day vig, but I agree with Thousand that we shouldn’t lynch him toDay. As soon as he does another stunt like that, we should kill him with fire though.
I don’t like Vaimes’ townclear of the slot.
And I don’t like Chris’ vote. Feels like he just wants to be on the wagon asap.
I still think mechanically the lynch is fine because XEqualsy can be scum day vig, which i would rather remove that than allow it to live. If he does another stuntn like this we just lost town for no reason -.-.
I think x=y is town. I think this wagon on him is bad. Think there's probably wolves on it.
Poor play does not automatically = wolf, folks.
I am starting to grow suspicious of you because I can tell you right the **** now Sir Chris is not so off that every one of my suspicions is town.
It isn't about bad play, it is about thinking process. There was no chance by the supposed town dayvig to give the potential town target a chance to live. Where were the probing questions? Like there is bad and then there is "I think I can justify this."
Also please don't preach to me about bad not being scum that's like my life motto.
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I think x=y is town. I think this wagon on him is bad. Think there's probably wolves on it.
Poor play does not automatically = wolf, folks.
I am starting to grow suspicious of you because I can tell you right the **** now Sir Chris is not so off that every one of my suspicions is town.
It isn't about bad play, it is about thinking process. There was no chance by the supposed town dayvig to give the potential town target a chance to live. Where were the probing questions? Like there is bad and then there is "I think I can justify this."
Also please don't preach to me about bad not being scum that's like my life motto.
You've had three pushes this game. I think your two today have been very much incorrect. You could be right about your Shinichi push on d1, but I don't really want to lynch there yet.
Do you have any thoughts on Kami, Hunger, Tubba, or Rhand?
I will get back to you on Rhand (his responses to me for his vote on me will be telling, I am very capable of reading Rhand), I have meta reasons to think Hunger may be OK, nothing on Tubba and Kami I have a slight lean on. Kami sounds like last game to me in tone.
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I like how you and I disagree on all three of those. I now think Shin may be OK but don't like Vaimes and that the methods that went into shooting 1053 were very pro wolf.
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In a vacuum, 50% dayvig is a townier role than [generic nightvig]. But obviously it can go the other way, and 1053 is such a low accountability/low info shot that its just... exactly who scum shoots with a public vig shot
Shinichi is too if hes town
I don't care about the throne THAT much... I don't want it for extended periods... Just once, as it unlocks an ability of mine.
Kinda want to know what that is.
I don't think xequalsy is scum, he just made a bad choice. I kinda wish the wagon on him was bigger though because that's probably a good source of scum. I recall two people jumping on him, maybe three. There might be scum there but the sample size is a little small to say for sure.
Cantrip: It's not what he's doing, Cantrip. It's what he's not doing. That's how I analyze his process.
But I've kinda been thinking lately that I might be wrong about him being scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Let’s put KJ on the throne then.
I don’t particularly trust Vaimes, so rather not him again.
And unlocking abilities sounds good.
@Chris: why did you only explain your vote better when I said I didn’t like it, and not when you first voted?
And why feel the need to call me “toothless”? I’m pretty sure that doesn’t describe my play at all.
HI IF YOURE TOWN NIGHTVIG PLEASE SHOOT X=Y TONIGHT TIA
Also gonna use this post to say chris' reasoning on vaimes was, at least partially, that there must have been scum voting him and lngrr and rod were town...
And he keeps scumreading vaimes after deciding rodslot is scum...
But real talk i can totally see townchris, having still not actually read vaimes' posts, just keeping vaimes in his scumreads out of stubborness/because he only remembers the argument/because he hates the idea of me being right/whatever.
But im still waiting on, like, that chrissing that i know and love thats just not happening here
Also, I definitely think that XY should, you know, generate discussion before a shot. But killing someone who's been kinda lurky isn't necessarily the WORST use of it. Killing someone who has actually been contributing to the thread would suck right now.
X>Y, do you have a lot of experience playing mafia?
X>Y, do you have a lot of experience playing mafia?
Deadline is roughly four days away, btw.
Yes, haven’t played for a while but have experience before that. (Though I got mislynched D1 on my only game here)
On mobile so not sure how to multiquote but dislike Shin’s response to me. The whole catch of the “day-vig” thing might just be different vocab. But it felt super TMI to me to jump to accepting that Rod (who he scum read) was a vig over a scum or even neutral KP role.
His read of Rod (even ignoring the whole Chris’s catch stuff) just feels made up. He’s had plenty of posts since and it feels like nothing has actually developed in a way that makes sense.
On a train today so will go over other posts after the shot in more detail this evening or tomorrow.
I’m town reading Tubba for stuff that they posted just beforehand. Don’t think scum would post about feeling disconnected and then purposefully trying to get a grip into the game like that. Feels off the cuff and non-agenday.
HI IF YOURE TOWN NIGHTVIG PLEASE SHOOT X=Y TONIGHT TIA
Also gonna use this post to say chris' reasoning on vaimes was, at least partially, that there must have been scum voting him and lngrr and rod were town...
And he keeps scumreading vaimes after deciding rodslot is scum...
But real talk i can totally see townchris, having still not actually read vaimes' posts, just keeping vaimes in his scumreads out of stubborness/because he only remembers the argument/because he hates the idea of me being right/whatever.
But im still waiting on, like, that chrissing that i know and love thats just not happening here
Oh I misread this post. That last line is what I agree on. Chris isn’t the game-solving Chris I’m used to.
I don't actually disagree with that list point tom.
This is me phone posting in Michigan.
Cantrip, the whole thing i thought of with hinting at alt wins, was that 5i forgot who said it, but i was paranoid of normal scum hunting being harder because people could claim they're wc is anti town. Mine can me look awkward, admittedly as certain players can contest.
I think anyone with a scummy alt wincon should probably claim it if they don't want to get scum-read later for pursuing it. You won't get alot of slack for me if you lynch a bunch of townies then D4 or 5 say, "Oh hey, btw, my wincon was to lynch a bunch of Baratheons, sorry they just happened to all be town!"
I am keeping Vaimes scum because I have not read the game yet and I don't change reads for no reason. I did not like how he approached me, I do not like he tone in his posts, and sure when I re-read maybe I'll see something different but I said there could be 2-3 scum on me so Rod slot being scum does not exclude a world that Vaimes could potentially be scum.
Vig taking care of vig is OK in theory however it has problems in that
1) Vig had a chance to murder the day vig slot last night and passed on the opportunity for reasons unknown
2) We don't know if Vig has any restrictions on their ability to execute this plan tonight, be it a limit to shots (we have a 1 shot vig - not sure on the meta of this on here!) or they can't shoot two nights in a row
3) They are under no obligation to agree with my or even your read of the situation and actually listen to this plan.
If a good amount of people agree we should have him die via vig we should just lynch him and allow our vig, if he is capable of shooting tonight, to use that information wisely based on the flip.
Rhand hello so I view you as a good player who I dunk on or file correctly every time we play together. I am like the Michael Jordan to your Patrick Ewing. Sure you're a really good player but I just have no fear of you and so when you vote for me and try to poke me (Also unless I am blind you never did answer why a scum Chris would hop on this wagon quickly - I don't ask questions for my health please answer or point me to where you did) I am going to poke you back.
As for elaboration I saw x=y had killed 1053, so I voted him for the awful shot and I think I went to bed. I was sleepy.
Anyway just because Chris is disjointed (I like Tom's read of this situation actually, he has an understanding of where my head is at in terms of style and I understand his confusion - I don't trust Tom because of faction angling but he is for sure town this game!) doesn't mean Chris is wrong. Now mind you Chris is probably not right about everything but I bet I am more right than almost everyone else, reputation has to be maintained.
Scum Reads:
x=y
Vaimes
Thinking about it:
Rhand
Town reads:
Lngr
Tom
Shin
Hunger
Kami
Thousand_Winds
So I manually remembered that T_W is DV's slot which was super towny, so I guess hilariously we have the same read of each other: town but wrong. We shall see how that turns out. Lngrr is a sweet naive person in terms of meta logic, Tom is sneaky but almost assuredly town, shin and hunger are based on a rod scum flip. Kami's tone is good but I haven't dug into that yet but good enough for now.
Cantrip, Tubba, RE, GJ and Killjoy require further reading although I recall feeling faintly good about the latter two at times today.
.
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I'm at family cabin for the holiday weekend with poor to no/reception and realized I forgot to post a V/LA - Sorry, shadow. I will be back tomorrow night, but realistically won't get caught up until Tuesday.
I did read this current page and one thing I noticed is - how does Tom know it's a 50% chance for dayvig? Did XY claim?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
These alternate wincons kinda suck because they're hard to achieve all of them. I hope there's more than just two Lannister/Freys in this game. I don't wanna lynch Rhand anymo0re.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Judging a person on their first post afte rbeing replaced in? Ewww?
Don't think I explained it properly if that's your reaction. Didn't really explain it all, did I?
It wasn't their first post. Maybe I said it was, my bad. It was one of their first posts, #2064. Maybe I'm reading too much into their tone, but they've got a weak way of explaining their reads/pushes.
On a road trip for the next 6 days. Think it's gonna be night sooner than I get back. Will be posting minimally but that's what I've been doing anyway...
I get the motive in leaving xequalsy alive. Can't be entirely certain he's scum, and if he's town, his ability is valuable. I don't have a stronger scumread at this time, but I'll consider an alternative.
I'll also say I don't like Sir Chris' vote on xequalsy right after mine. I think it uses chainsaw reasoning. Not sure if this automatically makes them T/W. Also think it's incredible he's scumreading Vaimes, but I need to take a closer look at his reasoning/progression there.
@xequalsy
Why kill 1053 over Shinichi?
What do you think of the plan where (for following days) we have a discussion on who you shoot? Is there a reason you'd rather keep your target a secret until you actually make the shot? Think it's best we get this cleared up sooner than later; not sure why we didn't make a decision on whether or not to control your shot + getting claims before flips sooner.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I think x=y is town. I think this wagon on him is bad. Think there's probably wolves on it.
Poor play does not automatically = wolf, folks.
I am starting to grow suspicious of you because I can tell you right the **** now Sir Chris is not so off that every one of my suspicions is town.
It isn't about bad play, it is about thinking process. There was no chance by the supposed town dayvig to give the potential town target a chance to live. Where were the probing questions? Like there is bad and then there is "I think I can justify this."
Also please don't preach to me about bad not being scum that's like my life motto.
I have to agree with sir chris here, especially since there was plenty of time to actively discuss a target with the players of the game. Instead, though, the guy comes into the game and shoots a now town with very poor reasoning.
So I ain't sure why people are trying to defend the shot.
His shot has a chance to fail, what's the point of controlling it? Like say we ask him on d3 to shoot someone who we all strongly believe is scum and he does it. If the shot misses what then? He listened at the risk of shooting his own partner.
Mechanically he could be a scum aligned day vig though.
I still think mechanically the lynch is fine because XEqualsy can be scum day vig, which i would rather remove that than allow it to live. If he does another stuntn like this we just lost town for no reason -.-.
Hmm? YOur saying if the other flips scum than the other is town?
This is what i am worried about coming out of Xequalsy, he could just shoot another town tomorrow if he has more shots.
Like, i cant imagine anyone claiming and id rather kill them than x=y but its accountability...
Like if he is town and scum have two shots (or one came from an SK) its kind of a disaster, which im not super into with 4 town dead yknow
Poor play does not automatically = wolf, folks.
I am starting to grow suspicious of you because I can tell you right the **** now Sir Chris is not so off that every one of my suspicions is town.
It isn't about bad play, it is about thinking process. There was no chance by the supposed town dayvig to give the potential town target a chance to live. Where were the probing questions? Like there is bad and then there is "I think I can justify this."
Also please don't preach to me about bad not being scum that's like my life motto.
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You've had three pushes this game. I think your two today have been very much incorrect. You could be right about your Shinichi push on d1, but I don't really want to lynch there yet.
Do you have any thoughts on Kami, Hunger, Tubba, or Rhand?
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2015 - Best Overall Player
Town points for bringing it up; now that you have, I would like an answer.
Its not about poor play though, i don't understand why ur aren't considered the possibility of a scum aligned day vig.
Shinichi is too if hes town
But i still dont want to kill x=y today.
Kinda want to know what that is.
I don't think xequalsy is scum, he just made a bad choice. I kinda wish the wagon on him was bigger though because that's probably a good source of scum. I recall two people jumping on him, maybe three. There might be scum there but the sample size is a little small to say for sure.
Cantrip: It's not what he's doing, Cantrip. It's what he's not doing. That's how I analyze his process.
But I've kinda been thinking lately that I might be wrong about him being scum.
I don’t particularly trust Vaimes, so rather not him again.
And unlocking abilities sounds good.
@Chris: why did you only explain your vote better when I said I didn’t like it, and not when you first voted?
And why feel the need to call me “toothless”? I’m pretty sure that doesn’t describe my play at all.
Current prediction x=y/kj/kami/[lurker]
HI IF YOURE TOWN NIGHTVIG PLEASE SHOOT X=Y TONIGHT TIA
Also gonna use this post to say chris' reasoning on vaimes was, at least partially, that there must have been scum voting him and lngrr and rod were town...
And he keeps scumreading vaimes after deciding rodslot is scum...
But real talk i can totally see townchris, having still not actually read vaimes' posts, just keeping vaimes in his scumreads out of stubborness/because he only remembers the argument/because he hates the idea of me being right/whatever.
But im still waiting on, like, that chrissing that i know and love thats just not happening here
Also, I definitely think that XY should, you know, generate discussion before a shot. But killing someone who's been kinda lurky isn't necessarily the WORST use of it. Killing someone who has actually been contributing to the thread would suck right now.
X>Y, do you have a lot of experience playing mafia?
Deadline is roughly four days away, btw.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Meh I don’t trust Vaimes. Why do you trust him?
And why is KJ scum?
I agree with you on Chris. Come vote him with me.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Oh I didn’t notice that. Post range?
Do i evem have an opinion on chris?
Yes, haven’t played for a while but have experience before that. (Though I got mislynched D1 on my only game here)
On mobile so not sure how to multiquote but dislike Shin’s response to me. The whole catch of the “day-vig” thing might just be different vocab. But it felt super TMI to me to jump to accepting that Rod (who he scum read) was a vig over a scum or even neutral KP role.
His read of Rod (even ignoring the whole Chris’s catch stuff) just feels made up. He’s had plenty of posts since and it feels like nothing has actually developed in a way that makes sense.
On a train today so will go over other posts after the shot in more detail this evening or tomorrow.
I’m town reading Tubba for stuff that they posted just beforehand. Don’t think scum would post about feeling disconnected and then purposefully trying to get a grip into the game like that. Feels off the cuff and non-agenday.
Oh I misread this post. That last line is what I agree on. Chris isn’t the game-solving Chris I’m used to.
Hes saying the things making the reads its just
Theres no flow to it. All his posts exists separately, from eachother and from the game.
This is me phone posting in Michigan.
Cantrip, the whole thing i thought of with hinting at alt wins, was that 5i forgot who said it, but i was paranoid of normal scum hunting being harder because people could claim they're wc is anti town. Mine can me look awkward, admittedly as certain players can contest.
What question did i fail to answer?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Vig taking care of vig is OK in theory however it has problems in that
1) Vig had a chance to murder the day vig slot last night and passed on the opportunity for reasons unknown
2) We don't know if Vig has any restrictions on their ability to execute this plan tonight, be it a limit to shots (we have a 1 shot vig - not sure on the meta of this on here!) or they can't shoot two nights in a row
3) They are under no obligation to agree with my or even your read of the situation and actually listen to this plan.
If a good amount of people agree we should have him die via vig we should just lynch him and allow our vig, if he is capable of shooting tonight, to use that information wisely based on the flip.
Rhand hello so I view you as a good player who I dunk on or file correctly every time we play together. I am like the Michael Jordan to your Patrick Ewing. Sure you're a really good player but I just have no fear of you and so when you vote for me and try to poke me (Also unless I am blind you never did answer why a scum Chris would hop on this wagon quickly - I don't ask questions for my health please answer or point me to where you did) I am going to poke you back.
As for elaboration I saw x=y had killed 1053, so I voted him for the awful shot and I think I went to bed. I was sleepy.
Anyway just because Chris is disjointed (I like Tom's read of this situation actually, he has an understanding of where my head is at in terms of style and I understand his confusion - I don't trust Tom because of faction angling but he is for sure town this game!) doesn't mean Chris is wrong. Now mind you Chris is probably not right about everything but I bet I am more right than almost everyone else, reputation has to be maintained.
Scum Reads:
x=y
Vaimes
Thinking about it:
Rhand
Town reads:
Lngr
Tom
Shin
Hunger
Kami
Thousand_Winds
So I manually remembered that T_W is DV's slot which was super towny, so I guess hilariously we have the same read of each other: town but wrong. We shall see how that turns out. Lngrr is a sweet naive person in terms of meta logic, Tom is sneaky but almost assuredly town, shin and hunger are based on a rod scum flip. Kami's tone is good but I haven't dug into that yet but good enough for now.
Cantrip, Tubba, RE, GJ and Killjoy require further reading although I recall feeling faintly good about the latter two at times today.
.
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I did read this current page and one thing I noticed is - how does Tom know it's a 50% chance for dayvig? Did XY claim?
V/LA until 5/28
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Tom: What do you mean "still think he's scum"? I think this is the first I'm hearing about an official scumread from you. Where did that come from?
These alternate wincons kinda suck because they're hard to achieve all of them. I hope there's more than just two Lannister/Freys in this game. I don't wanna lynch Rhand anymo0re.
Not fully sure what to make of it.
Lngrr
Winds
RE/cantrip
Shin
Rhand
Gj
Chris
Tubba
hunger
Kami
Kj
X=y
hunger
Let's lynch KA instead.
Or maybe Vaimes because it'd be funny.
It wasn't their first post. Maybe I said it was, my bad. It was one of their first posts, #2064. Maybe I'm reading too much into their tone, but they've got a weak way of explaining their reads/pushes.
On a road trip for the next 6 days. Think it's gonna be night sooner than I get back. Will be posting minimally but that's what I've been doing anyway...
I get the motive in leaving xequalsy alive. Can't be entirely certain he's scum, and if he's town, his ability is valuable. I don't have a stronger scumread at this time, but I'll consider an alternative.
I'll also say I don't like Sir Chris' vote on xequalsy right after mine. I think it uses chainsaw reasoning. Not sure if this automatically makes them T/W. Also think it's incredible he's scumreading Vaimes, but I need to take a closer look at his reasoning/progression there.
@xequalsy
Why kill 1053 over Shinichi?
What do you think of the plan where (for following days) we have a discussion on who you shoot? Is there a reason you'd rather keep your target a secret until you actually make the shot? Think it's best we get this cleared up sooner than later; not sure why we didn't make a decision on whether or not to control your shot + getting claims before flips sooner.
xequalsy (3): RE1031, Sir Chris, Shinichi
KamikazeArchon (2): Thousand_Winds, Hunger
Shinichi (2): KamikazeArchon, XequalsY
Killjoy (1): tomsloger
Rhand (1): Tubba Fett
Sir Chris (1): Rhand
Vaimes (1): Gentleman Johnny
Not Voting (1): Killjoy
Think it's something like this.
Not super enthused with the GJ wagon, probably need to figure out why.
I have to agree with sir chris here, especially since there was plenty of time to actively discuss a target with the players of the game. Instead, though, the guy comes into the game and shoots a now town with very poor reasoning.
So I ain't sure why people are trying to defend the shot.
He just might be town anyway
But probably not if the extra death last night was town controlled
So yeah i dont actually want to lynch x=y either. Not enough information
Basically just eliminating my townreads except rhand (the north remembers yo), not chris or johnny today for *reasons*, and x=y for role reasons
Sir Chris, Shinichi, GJ
People who I wouldn't mind if they ate a bullet
Sir Chris, Shinichi, GJ
(This list is not exhaustive. Kami, Hunger, Tubba and anyone else who doesn't really want to play can also get snuffed.)
Can we please consolidate some wagons?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Get snuffin then snuffulupugas. Call me out for not playing, what are you doing?
(Yes i know im also solo wagoning)