KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Basically, I was in a final 4 in that game where mechanically it pointed to me being the final wolf. 1 person was peeked clear, the other was a mason or something and was 99% clear by role, the third had been roleblocked the previous night by the peeked clear jailkeeper, and myself.
It should have been a slam dunk case right? Everyone clear, lynch the last person who was the only VT claim in the game and is just mechanically the last wolf.
Except I was that VT claim, and I was very much not a wolf.
We spent a month or so with me passionately arguing the case for behavior over mechanics, that no matter what happened, we didn't know the full setup, and that it was more likely Seppel was a wolf with some day to bypass roleblocks than it was for me to be behaviorally a wolf.
We eventually did lynch Seppel despite him being mechanically cleared, and won the game.
That's what I'm trying to do right now with this very targeted re-read, combing over interactions.
Trying to figure out if Vaimes/Tom are so overwhelmingly likely town that we need to throw mechanics out the window, accept that we don't know how something happened, but that it still happened, and just lynch the most likely wolf on behavior alone.
Because you're right.
Mechanically, Vaimes has to be the last wolf.
You are rolecopped by Shin as to be only a blocker when on throne.
Tom is rolecopped by Shin as to be vanilla.
Shin rolecopped someone the night a roleblock happened.
I'm obviously not the last wolf/roleblocker.
All that remains is Vaimes.
It'd be easy to just shut our brains off and lynch him. It'd even be guaranteeing my win in the game! Town could even easily still win if you are town and Vaimes is town, with you blocking the other two and creating a F3, so it's pretty low risk, especially from your perspective.
But like. Maybe it's ego, maybe it's pride, maybe it's wanting to have this game at LYLO, have the wolves refuse to cooperate with me, and lynch 4 straight wolves back to back to back to back, but I don't think it's Vaimes or Tom. I really don't.
But for now at least, let's ignore mechanics. Look through the quotes I posted. Find stuff you think is never two wolves interacting, bring it up, consider it.
Mafia is a probabilistic behavioral game and let's throw mechanics out the window and find the person who is most likely to be a wolf with Chris/Rand/Rodemx=y.
(And then maybe end up lynching Vaimes anyways, but if this is the final real game on MTGS, let's end it with a bang, not a shruglynch based on unknown mechanics and a whimper where no one is all that satisfied.
And Vaimes, my king. Put in some ******* work or I'm going to overthrow you and sit on the throne with blood splattered over my paws as I stare down at your corpse.
Stop being useless in endgames. It cost you Secret Agent, where you didn't put in the work and rolled over and died. Don't let it cost you this one too.
I know it's not why you play mafia. I know it's not what you enjoy about mafia. I know you detest other people doing it. But possibly last game on the site, let's dig deep. Be town. Put work in. Find wolf.
There's a certain poetic irony in me being the Shield Who Guards The Realms of Vaimes, forever and always, yet this game my win condition involves you, and only you, dying.
I know it's not why you play mafia. I know it's not what you enjoy about mafia. I know you detest other people doing it. But possibly last game on the site, let's dig deep. Be town. Put work in. Find wolf.
Nope just kidding this is overwhelming and I'm leaning towards rolling over.
Let's be real, there's no reason to bend over backwards for me when you need me to die /and/ town doesn't immediately lose unless KJ is mafia.
I blame shadow for giving me a dead ability.
tom has good interactions with flipped mafia that don't look like partners, and Shin looks like he has no agenda and was pushed pretty hard D1 and shot at. My brain can't budge beyond 50/50 odds if the mod townfirmed KJ right in front of me.
There's a niggling part of me that thinks it actually just is Vaimes, and he knows he's never actually winning this game with my win condition existing and he's just being...practical.
I was planning on 'clearing' KJ and lynching you today, because I gave no real *****s who the last wolf actually was, just wanted to put in the token effort so I seemed like I wasn't just zeroing in on my win condition.
So Hypothetically you just don't want me to vote for KJ to have the throne so that Shin can shoot a town and you guys still win, is what you're saying, hypoethetically.
I've been trying to think of ways to get you to side with us without outing the last scum (eyerollgif), but honestly at this point this game is painful to exist in.
I think I'm leaning towards lynching you though as a fair warning, just because it's the mechanically superior play for me. Zero risk vs. minimal risk.
With my throne vote leaving the game that means it's Tom/KJ/Shin (with Shin obv being the wolf here) left. Tom votes for KJ, KJ votes for Tom, Shin votes for...Tom?
So KJ can't win the throne tonight, and can't roleblock Shin, and Shin shoots a villager and wins.
So uh...
Town can't win if you are lynched today and Shin is your partner.
It should have been a slam dunk case right? Everyone clear, lynch the last person who was the only VT claim in the game and is just mechanically the last wolf.
Except I was that VT claim, and I was very much not a wolf.
We spent a month or so with me passionately arguing the case for behavior over mechanics, that no matter what happened, we didn't know the full setup, and that it was more likely Seppel was a wolf with some day to bypass roleblocks than it was for me to be behaviorally a wolf.
We eventually did lynch Seppel despite him being mechanically cleared, and won the game.
That's what I'm trying to do right now with this very targeted re-read, combing over interactions.
Trying to figure out if Vaimes/Tom are so overwhelmingly likely town that we need to throw mechanics out the window, accept that we don't know how something happened, but that it still happened, and just lynch the most likely wolf on behavior alone.
Because you're right.
Mechanically, Vaimes has to be the last wolf.
You are rolecopped by Shin as to be only a blocker when on throne.
Tom is rolecopped by Shin as to be vanilla.
Shin rolecopped someone the night a roleblock happened.
I'm obviously not the last wolf/roleblocker.
All that remains is Vaimes.
It'd be easy to just shut our brains off and lynch him. It'd even be guaranteeing my win in the game! Town could even easily still win if you are town and Vaimes is town, with you blocking the other two and creating a F3, so it's pretty low risk, especially from your perspective.
But like. Maybe it's ego, maybe it's pride, maybe it's wanting to have this game at LYLO, have the wolves refuse to cooperate with me, and lynch 4 straight wolves back to back to back to back, but I don't think it's Vaimes or Tom. I really don't.
But for now at least, let's ignore mechanics. Look through the quotes I posted. Find stuff you think is never two wolves interacting, bring it up, consider it.
Mafia is a probabilistic behavioral game and let's throw mechanics out the window and find the person who is most likely to be a wolf with Chris/Rand/Rodemx=y.
(And then maybe end up lynching Vaimes anyways, but if this is the final real game on MTGS, let's end it with a bang, not a shruglynch based on unknown mechanics and a whimper where no one is all that satisfied.
Stop being useless in endgames. It cost you Secret Agent, where you didn't put in the work and rolled over and died. Don't let it cost you this one too.
I know it's not why you play mafia. I know it's not what you enjoy about mafia. I know you detest other people doing it. But possibly last game on the site, let's dig deep. Be town. Put work in. Find wolf.
There's a certain poetic irony in me being the Shield Who Guards The Realms of Vaimes, forever and always, yet this game my win condition involves you, and only you, dying.
Yet, well. Here we are.
stop saying so many justified guilt-trippy things
Let's be real, there's no reason to bend over backwards for me when you need me to die /and/ town doesn't immediately lose unless KJ is mafia.
I blame shadow for giving me a dead ability.
tom has good interactions with flipped mafia that don't look like partners, and Shin looks like he has no agenda and was pushed pretty hard D1 and shot at. My brain can't budge beyond 50/50 odds if the mod townfirmed KJ right in front of me.
Focus on Shin and KJ.
Tom's always clear, you can ignore him.
Because like.
If you are convinced it's Shin, then you can roll over.
If you think it is more likely to be KJ, well. You need to sell it, friend. Because town loses if KJ is a wolf and you don't get him lynched.
I'm the mafia roleblocker.
AMA.
Well played tbh.
I was planning on 'clearing' KJ and lynching you today, because I gave no real *****s who the last wolf actually was, just wanted to put in the token effort so I seemed like I wasn't just zeroing in on my win condition.
My only request is that everyone votes me for the throne so I can die scumking.
Unvote
Not like a wolf is gonna hammer you though
I intended to cooperate, but outside factors made that impossible slash gamethrow-y. Hands tied, backed into a corner, blah blah blah.
I think I'd have maybe tried to get you to actually solve more if I'd been town, but I'd also have been dead long before now as town, so.
Oh, I'm sure.
Only time I've been actually at all upset was when I thought wolves double-tapped LnG with me due to not actually reading my post at EoD.
Was a fun game
choo choo
I enjoyed the first three Days on the throne.
Rough luck with the wolf team rand though. All the others being pretty inactive is oof.
Wasn't a bad team in theory but. They were all busy/etc.
The Pack Survives
Vote: Vaimes
Gonna be honest, part of me was hoping it was Shin so that we'd have lynched Chris and then all 3 of his partners off of his interactions with them.
Probably not very likely at this point.
Winning with 3 Starks alive as their wolf is too appealing.
Are you saying there's another wolf alive still somehow?
I'm not sure your vote is relevant if you leave the game upon my death.
Because in that case there's no need for me to ask you to side with us.
If we lynch Shin first then... it'd be game throwing for you to let me kill you, so that'd never happen, and I'd lose.
We dethrone KJ. Unless he's the one lynched. Whatever.
I shoot villager.
You shoot me.
Game ends.
"But Vaimes, you could block me!" In theory, yes, but that's not the kind of thing I'd do after asking you for help. Or at all.
If KJ had just done what he was ******* told and LET ME KILL HIM, I would've outed the team (since mafia are at parity) and let myself get lynched.
Do me a favor and at least don't vote while I'm gone, if you're leaning that way.
tyty
I think I'm leaning towards lynching you though as a fair warning, just because it's the mechanically superior play for me. Zero risk vs. minimal risk.
With my throne vote leaving the game that means it's Tom/KJ/Shin (with Shin obv being the wolf here) left. Tom votes for KJ, KJ votes for Tom, Shin votes for...Tom?
So KJ can't win the throne tonight, and can't roleblock Shin, and Shin shoots a villager and wins.
So uh...
Town can't win if you are lynched today and Shin is your partner.
Therefore I think you have to be lying?
Or just didn't think it through fully.
2 wolves left apparently. Shin/Vaimes if you're town.
Oh, forgot he could do that.
Okay uh.
That'd explain why he wants me to lynch KJ with him and Shin.
So if its not just vaimes...
Has to be vaimes/shin
So me, winds, and kj support kj for throne, kj blocks me and shin, stark final 3 lynch shin win
Does require making sure you and KJ both give KJ throne support before we hammer/end the day though.
So no one vote before you both confirm you did that.