KCC: I'm not sure the difference between "I'm easy to read" and "you can read me easily" is relevant. I feel like this isn't something you're pushing or anything, just correcting, which is fine... But, either way, you're saying that you can read me, and here you are being wrong. And you're not even going about it townishly.
You started out saying I reacted to tom in a way that says I'm scared he's gonna catch me, but your response to my saying that's not true is that "you haven't seen my scumgame in a while, but you don't see town!me reacting like that" but your point is only really valid if you know that's a part of my scum game (I don't even know if it is, I haven't been scum in a while) and not just a part of my towngame (or perhaps even NAI) that you haven't seen yet. It's a premature assumption. You can't possibly think you know my towngame that well. Also premature: saying that I'm trying to push a false dichotomy for exploring the idea of the fact that you appear to be a consensus lynch, and seeing that Shadow was the only one really entertaining another option besides you. It's all kinda just shallow points that you're making here.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@KCC
Your earlier post about KJ trying to create a false dichotomy is awful reachy when you go back and look at it in context. What do you think that means for KJ and Cantrip’s alignments?
No, I haven't seen anything that pings me about Rhand
I know you're scumreading me, but have you actually looked through his case on me?
-He first votes me for "feeling pockety". He's been asked to show what exactly he meant, but just... hasn't
-He then pushes for me clipping a quote, which is just something I do all the time, and would be an iffy tell in any circumstances
-And then there's the "who is a mislynch" question, which doesn't feel like a real question he'd care about, that he used to suggest I must have scumchat, though he was one of the people who said it. And then acted like I was changing my story when I pointed that out
-And now, I'm both a lynch he feels good about, and just an unsure read. And oops, maybe he's tunneling, wouldn't that be an unfortunate accident
Fair, but KJ is firmly in his town wheelhouse right now.
See, I'm just not feeling that. And if he were town, I should be by now. It's definitely not as strong as my Rhand read, but I think I'm right. And no offense, but I trust my ability to read KJ over yours
KCC: I'm not sure the difference between "I'm easy to read" and "you can read me easily" is relevant. I feel like this isn't something you're pushing or anything, just correcting, which is fine... But, either way, you're saying that you can read me, and here you are being wrong. And you're not even going about it townishly.
If I'm wrong, I would definitely understand you feeling that way. A lot of my suspicion is the opposite, you don't feel obv town to me, when you're usually my first and strongest read
You started out saying I reacted to tom in a way that says I'm scared he's gonna catch me, but your response to my saying that's not true is that "you haven't seen my scumgame in a while, but you don't see town!me reacting like that" but your point is only really valid if you know that's a part of my scum game (I don't even know if it is, I haven't been scum in a while) and not just a part of my towngame (or perhaps even NAI) that you haven't seen yet. It's a premature assumption. You can't possibly think you know my towngame that well.
No, of course it's not something I'd lynch you for on the spot. That's why I asked about it. It might be NAI, but it's rare that I'm not tracking what you're doing
Also premature: saying that I'm trying to push a false dichotomy for exploring the idea of the fact that you appear to be a consensus lynch, and seeing that Shadow was the only one really entertaining another option besides you. It's all kinda just shallow points that you're making here.
I said I could see townYou making that post. But I know scum have to be anxious to lock this lynch down, and that's what that could be
@KCC
Your earlier post about KJ trying to create a false dichotomy is awful reachy when you go back and look at it in context. What do you think that means for KJ and Cantrip’s alignments?
I know the context, it was minor feeling not something I was pushing. But if KJ is scum, it's a small +town Cantrip, there's definitely less reason to make that post if KJ/cantrip. Moreso, I think scumKJ would be +town Shadow
KCC: The biggest problem I'm having here is the certainty. You're completely certain and resistant to reexamine that read at all.
Also, your confidence of being able to read me only exists in Eurovision. That is the first and only time you've expressed that, as far as I can recall.
Also, also, if you scroll over the time a post was made, it'll give a timestamp.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
No, I haven't seen anything that pings me about Rhand
I know you're scumreading me, but have you actually looked through his case on me?
-He first votes me for "feeling pockety". He's been asked to show what exactly he meant, but just... hasn't
-He then pushes for me clipping a quote, which is just something I do all the time, and would be an iffy tell in any circumstances
-And then there's the "who is a mislynch" question, which doesn't feel like a real question he'd care about, that he used to suggest I must have scumchat, though he was one of the people who said it. And then acted like I was changing my story when I pointed that out
-And now, I'm both a lynch he feels good about, and just an unsure read. And oops, maybe he's tunneling, wouldn't that be an unfortunate accident
Fair, but KJ is firmly in his town wheelhouse right now.
See, I'm just not feeling that. And if he were town, I should be by now. It's definitely not as strong as my Rhand read, but I think I'm right. And no offense, but I trust my ability to read KJ over yours
This feels like distancing, especially with KCC's insistence of her being able to read me and knowing I'm scum but never actually voting me ever.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Also, your confidence of being able to read me only exists in Eurovision. That is the first and only time you've expressed that, as far as I can recall.
Yeah, probably, reading you so easily in Modern when others couldn't certainly helped. And then it was just as easy in Euro
I had more to do with putting you towards lynch than rhand. I dont see much difference between KJ's you/shadow "dichotomy" and my posts about rhand if youre town. Im still substantially less forthcoming than euro and playing more like modern mafia imo.
What gives?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Well, you're probably both scum. But with Rhand, there's just no way he believes the case he's pushing, and he's doing literally nothing else. You, I would not want to lynch right now. Partially because I haven't seen anything that screams scum yet, just things that don't feel like townKJ. And partially because if I'm wrong, your flip would tell me basically nothing, and that's not okay in a game like this.
So kcc even now that shes pushing something feels more like "get people off me" than "solving the game"
Idk obviously its rough being a consensus scumread d1 of a micro and thats a reasonable goal regardless of alignment but, well
It doesnt make me want to vote elsewhere yknow?
If shes scum, rhand probably isnt. The hammer it through mentality doesnt super make sense then. I wanna say no kj because shes annoyed hes being townread for nothing. Shadow/cantrip/tubba all work
If shes not, well, doesnt give me much. Rhand could be hammering through a mislynch. Shadow/tubba could be just letting one happen. Cantrips positioning kinda doesnt look like what scum would do when a townie gets run up? Still cant see scum kj...
Anyway.
2 days left.
@KCC this here is your last chance to fakeclaim watcher
VOTE COUNT 1.4 "Entering school, I was already exceptionally bright, my perfect scores on early test papers arousing such suspicion that I carefully achieved only average grades thereafter."
KCC (2): Rhand, tom
Rhand (2): KCC, shadow
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov.
y'all are good on posting btw. everybody posted since yesterday at least once. keep up that pace and we'll all be happy.
this vote count has been edited to match the count as of its actual placement. i posted this before I saw the previous post.
this vote count has been edited AGAIN because 1+1 = 2
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I dislike that you were getting early townreads for basically no reason
Pretty sure.
In full context shes saying that you should have been suspicious of that which, like her defense, is reasonable but not convincing. So its a regardless of alignment thing imo
But if shes scum the "for basically no reason" speaks volumes
Well, you're probably both scum. But with Rhand, there's just no way he believes the case he's pushing, and he's doing literally nothing else. You, I would not want to lynch right now. Partially because I haven't seen anything that screams scum yet, just things that don't feel like townKJ. And partially because if I'm wrong, your flip would tell me basically nothing, and that's not okay in a game like this.
Doing nothing else eh?
What about all the town reads I put out?
@Shadow: go into what you agree with from KCC re:me please.
I dislike that you were getting early townreads for basically no reason
Pretty sure.
In full context shes saying that you should have been suspicious of that which, like her defense, is reasonable but not convincing. So its a regardless of alignment thing imo
But if shes scum the "for basically no reason" speaks volumes
That’s probably scum frustration for losing a possible mislynch.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
just in case you all end up misreading me on D1 like usual, here are my thoughts that brought me to a KCC / Cantrip team.
Cantrip in a vacuum hasn’t pinged me either way, but I am pretty sure I caught KCC and I am townreading everyone else.
This interaction makes Shadow, KJ and tom all town:
vote kj
For missing the giant blinking sign over shadow saying "im the watcher"
This is tom figuring that out, which scum!tom wouldn’t post in thread because it’s predictable he would clear both Shadow and naive KJ, which does happen:
Yes, but I’m not sure I see anything AI. I have a soft spot for Tubba’s self meta, and I’m also intrigued by tom’s interest in him atm.
i figure ive "propped him up" to some extent for a chunk of his mafia career. As his buddy, as scum pocketing him, and v/v correctly reading him.
I doubt he sees it this way and probably no one else should either but my attitude is sorta "momma hawk watching him hunt on his own"
Between you and shadow I’ve been pretty much ninja’d.
Also, KJ is probably town.
I swear to god I'm not this easy to read.
Do you have any reads rn?
IME, you are a bit more frivolous, and go with the flow as scum. My impression of you so far is “buzzkilly, obnoxiously serious town KJ”.
Reads as yet are pretty sparse, Tom usually has kid gloves on around me and his pushing me this game, which could mean anything with Tom. Probably >scummy, as I think it’d be easier to just bury me without getting his hands as dirty.
KCC >scummy by dint of mixing it up with Tom and Shadow, but I’m not familiar with their play so well salted.
I think Shadow genuinely likes my presence, (and who can blame him?) but with skilled players I’m always worried about the layers. Cautiously optimistic.
Thats about it that’s standing out to me now.
And here he continues at that while naming KCC as only scumread, which would be bad scum play if KCC is really his buddy.
KCC and Cantrip are the only possible scum, with a slight possibility of a rusty tubba.
I think I just discovered a piece of self-meta that will improve my town game.
I was wondering why (when I’m not too busy to actively play) I get townread when I’m scum and scumread when I’m town.
I reread myself to see where all the scum reads can come from, and I think what I have to stop doing is convincing the scum I caught that they’re scum. It doesn’t make sense and must give off wrong vibes to others reading that.
When I’m scum I don’t do that: I convince town that other town is scum.
I’m going to fix that in my town game
Shadow is doing his thing where he tries mudding the waters early on about who the PR is to make sure scum shoots wrong.
It’s similar to what he did in the recent Token micro. And successfully. I was scum in that one and got the token distribution all wrong because of him.
These 3 posts were your sole contributions to the game, outside of just pushing me. There's a little reasoning on Shadow, and a single word on KJ... And that's it.
Well, until now when you've started picking up votes. Now you suddenly have volumes to say. That didn't work for Az in Modern, and it's not going to work here
That’s probably scum frustration for losing a possible mislynch.
I got suspicious of him for not reacting to those reads, the reads were there first. So, what, you're saying I saw that KJ was being townread and then... just pushed that way anyway knowing it'd be hard, and then got frustrated about it? What?
yes, those 3 posts. And yes, I felt the need to explain them more because I might get lynched. How does that make me scum?
I think your push on KJ is you trying to destroy his town cred because all the town reads he gathered quickly make him hard to mislynch. And yes, I did feel frustration in your tone. Which is a normal feeling for scum to have when a possible mislynch slips away.
And no, to this non-native speaker it wasn’t obvious at all what tubba meant. Why would I not care about that as scum anyhow?
KCC is trying to use a bunch of tells that are NAI at best to push my lynch here.
Please burn her with fire if I get lynched.
Probably 1, with a sliver of possibility for two. I interpreted KCC’s early game as ballsy and attention grabbing, which doesn’t preclude scum but makes it less likely to me. Her later posting is more reactive, feels somewhat petulant and could be indicative of hand in the cookie jar with regards to KJ. That’s based on my KJ town read which I feel pretty good about. I think she makes a good point about seeing KJ widely townread and attacking that as scum. It seems like a hard line, that could be better played at a later date.
I need to read through Rhand again, but my initial thoughts is that his case is flimsy. He’s made some points but not enough to shove the needle for me.
See, I'm just not feeling that. And if he were town, I should be by now. It's definitely not as strong as my Rhand read, but I think I'm right. And no offense, but I trust my ability to read KJ over yours
Oh, zing! But I totally had KJ correctly pegged as town most the game, and I only failed because I chose to believe that KJ was savvy rather than that Wisp was ballsy. So don't tell me I can't correctly read KJ.
And no, to this non-native speaker it wasn’t obvious at all what tubba meant.
I agree that it's a little confusing, which is why I asked him about it in post 84. Granted, he didn't answer (until now), but how do you read "Tom usually has kid gloves on around me and his pushing me this game, which could mean anything with Tom. Probably >scummy, as I think it’d be easier to just bury me without getting his hands as dirty" and come out of it with "Tubba thinks Tom is scum"?
Probably 1, with a sliver of possibility for two. I interpreted KCC’s early game as ballsy and attention grabbing, which doesn’t preclude scum but makes it less likely to me. Her later posting is more reactive, feels somewhat petulant and could be indicative of hand in the cookie jar with regards to KJ. That’s based on my KJ town read which I feel pretty good about. I think she makes a good point about seeing KJ widely townread and attacking that as scum. It seems like a hard line, that could be better played at a later date.
I need to read through Rhand again, but my initial thoughts is that his case is flimsy. He’s made some points but not enough to shove the needle for me.
I had a vote on you in my post because I was seeing zero scumhunting coming from you. I refreshed and this makes me feel moderately better about you. Still, we have a little more than 36 hours, so who's scum? Why are we having to drag reads out of you?
Rhand/KCC is a mess, and it kinda makes me want to go back to Cantrip.
You have no concerns putting Rhand at L-2, but despite multiple vague allusions to finding me scummy "by default", no vote? Vote me if you think I'm scummy. I'm a big boy; I won't cry.
You have no concerns putting Rhand at L-2, but despite multiple vague allusions to finding me scummy "by default", no vote? Vote me if you think I'm scummy. I'm a big boy; I won't cry.
*Exasperated sigh*
No, I don’t have concerns about putting someone at L-2, because that’s literally only 2 votes in a game this small. Being the second vote on someone is not me saying “claim now you’re at L-2”.
@Cantrip: I need all my concentration to figure out that sentence. I thought it meant that tom is pushing him with kiddy gloves, so not getting his hands dirty.
Too many idioms in one sentence for me.
My point wasn't that you were fine putting him at claim range; L-2 is the "safe zone" where if he's town both scum are going to have to draw attention to quickly hammer.
So here's my big question: Why aren't you trying to figure me out? I don't think you've asked me a single question this game other than "you scum?" You've danced around me maybe being scum (but by default!) all Day, but haven't tested me, tried to get reads from me...anything. I've been waiting for it, because town!you loves figuring people out. You've been fine asking other people to weigh in on me (which, hint, helps you figure them out, but not me), but nothing TO me. Even now, you're just responding to my question and voting me.
@Cantrip: I need all my concentration to figure out that sentence. I thought it meant that tom is pushing him with kiddy gloves, so not getting his hands dirty.
Too many idioms in one sentence for me.
My apologies. It felt suspicious in part because I had already called attention to it, so it felt a little like you were choosing to interpret it poorly, but I couldn't play this game in another language, so...sorry.
Anyhow, @Cantrip, why does it matter how I misread that?
Because you were saying Tubba can't be a buddy with KCC because KCC was Tubba's "only" scumread, which was unlikely to come from scum. But then you softened that by saying Tom was also a scumread. But neither of them were scumreads. They were "not-scum" reads. So it felt like you were falsely narrowing your PoE to me by giving Tubba a really bad pass. Especially since that's one of the posts that I think could be indicative of Tubby being buddies with KCC.
I'm not voting Shadow for voting me (after I goaded him into doing so). I'm voting him for voting me without him ever once trying to figure me out. If he really thought I was scum, he'd be doing something to suss me, but just a "oh, ok, here's a vote"?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Cantrip, I haven’t asked you anything because I don’t think it would be particular useful; I’d rather read what you have to say and your thoughts on everything at the present. The only question I’ve actually wanted the answer to, I didn’t want to ask because the answer might be fake regardless of your alignment and thus not helpful.
But seriously, I was almost certain that you expected that goading me into voting for you would push me off of you (as has previously worked on me). So I voted to see how’d your react (and because if you were really trying to push me off, that’s more likely scum you).
And as far as not trying to figure you out, I ISO’d you prior to voting again, just to see if I was missing something glaring that would suggest you’re town.
See, I'm just not feeling that. And if he were town, I should be by now. It's definitely not as strong as my Rhand read, but I think I'm right. And no offense, but I trust my ability to read KJ over yours
Oh, zing! But I totally had KJ correctly pegged as town most the game, and I only failed because I chose to believe that KJ was savvy rather than that Wisp was ballsy. So don't tell me I can't correctly read KJ.
And no, to this non-native speaker it wasn’t obvious at all what tubba meant.
I agree that it's a little confusing, which is why I asked him about it in post 84. Granted, he didn't answer (until now), but how do you read "Tom usually has kid gloves on around me and his pushing me this game, which could mean anything with Tom. Probably >scummy, as I think it’d be easier to just bury me without getting his hands as dirty" and come out of it with "Tubba thinks Tom is scum"?
Probably 1, with a sliver of possibility for two. I interpreted KCC’s early game as ballsy and attention grabbing, which doesn’t preclude scum but makes it less likely to me. Her later posting is more reactive, feels somewhat petulant and could be indicative of hand in the cookie jar with regards to KJ. That’s based on my KJ town read which I feel pretty good about. I think she makes a good point about seeing KJ widely townread and attacking that as scum. It seems like a hard line, that could be better played at a later date.
I need to read through Rhand again, but my initial thoughts is that his case is flimsy. He’s made some points but not enough to shove the needle for me.
I had a vote on you in my post because I was seeing zero scumhunting coming from you. I refreshed and this makes me feel moderately better about you. Still, we have a little more than 36 hours, so who's scum? Why are we having to drag reads out of you?
Rhand/KCC is a mess, and it kinda makes me want to go back to Cantrip.
You have no concerns putting Rhand at L-2, but despite multiple vague allusions to finding me scummy "by default", no vote? Vote me if you think I'm scummy. I'm a big boy; I won't cry.
It’s just my natural predisposition, I’m a lurker. I’d dispute having to drag reads from me, I feel like every time I’ve been asked for an opinion, I’ve given it. I’ll concede that I should be more proactive, I’m not there yet.
Tubba, you’re approaching too self aware for your own good. Things have happened in the last 10 posts, you could...throw out some quick thoughts about it.
Cantrip, I haven’t asked you anything because I don’t think it would be particular useful; I’d rather read what you have to say and your thoughts on everything at the present. The only question I’ve actually wanted the answer to, I didn’t want to ask because the answer might be fake regardless of your alignment and thus not helpful.
Ok, but I'm still not getting any "figuring out" vibes from you. The only rationale or conclusion I've seen on me from you is "everyone else could be town". That feels so different from the feelings I usually get from you. As for the one question you actually wanted an answer to: are you talking about "you scum?" or something else?
Quote from Shadow »
But seriously, I was almost certain that you expected that goading me into voting for you would push me off of you (as has previously worked on me). So I voted to see how’d your react (and because if you were really trying to push me off, that’s more likely scum you).
No, I figured if you were going to vote me, that would be when you'd (finally) provide some analysis, but it was nearly a naked vote.
Why did you *exasperated sigh* at the start of 187? What were you exasperated about?
And as far as not trying to figure you out, I ISO’d you prior to voting again, just to see if I was missing something glaring that would suggest you’re town.
Cool story? But you're still not displaying any figuring out. It's like you're just coming back to default-scumreading me because you don't have anywhere else to go. Why the complacency?
EWP: Tubba, Maybe "dragging" is exaggerated, but you're certainly not volunteering any reads. I mean...I just asked you who's scum and you quoted the question, but didn't respond.
You started out saying I reacted to tom in a way that says I'm scared he's gonna catch me, but your response to my saying that's not true is that "you haven't seen my scumgame in a while, but you don't see town!me reacting like that" but your point is only really valid if you know that's a part of my scum game (I don't even know if it is, I haven't been scum in a while) and not just a part of my towngame (or perhaps even NAI) that you haven't seen yet. It's a premature assumption. You can't possibly think you know my towngame that well. Also premature: saying that I'm trying to push a false dichotomy for exploring the idea of the fact that you appear to be a consensus lynch, and seeing that Shadow was the only one really entertaining another option besides you. It's all kinda just shallow points that you're making here.
Your earlier post about KJ trying to create a false dichotomy is awful reachy when you go back and look at it in context. What do you think that means for KJ and Cantrip’s alignments?
-He first votes me for "feeling pockety". He's been asked to show what exactly he meant, but just... hasn't
-He then pushes for me clipping a quote, which is just something I do all the time, and would be an iffy tell in any circumstances
-And then there's the "who is a mislynch" question, which doesn't feel like a real question he'd care about, that he used to suggest I must have scumchat, though he was one of the people who said it. And then acted like I was changing my story when I pointed that out
-And now, I'm both a lynch he feels good about, and just an unsure read. And oops, maybe he's tunneling, wouldn't that be an unfortunate accident
I think I just convinced myself I'm not OMGUSing.
unvote vote Rhand
It's not the fact that he double posted, but the contents of that second post
See, I'm just not feeling that. And if he were town, I should be by now. It's definitely not as strong as my Rhand read, but I think I'm right. And no offense, but I trust my ability to read KJ over yours
If I'm wrong, I would definitely understand you feeling that way. A lot of my suspicion is the opposite, you don't feel obv town to me, when you're usually my first and strongest read
No, of course it's not something I'd lynch you for on the spot. That's why I asked about it. It might be NAI, but it's rare that I'm not tracking what you're doing
I said I could see townYou making that post. But I know scum have to be anxious to lock this lynch down, and that's what that could be
I don't even know how to do that. Mine just says 5 days ago. That doesn't change anything about those posts though
I know the context, it was minor feeling not something I was pushing. But if KJ is scum, it's a small +town Cantrip, there's definitely less reason to make that post if KJ/cantrip. Moreso, I think scumKJ would be +town Shadow
Also, your confidence of being able to read me only exists in Eurovision. That is the first and only time you've expressed that, as far as I can recall.
Also, also, if you scroll over the time a post was made, it'll give a timestamp.
You're not even my strongest read?
Yeah, probably, reading you so easily in Modern when others couldn't certainly helped. And then it was just as easy in Euro
That doesn't seem to work on my phone
Why arent I scum?
I had more to do with putting you towards lynch than rhand. I dont see much difference between KJ's you/shadow "dichotomy" and my posts about rhand if youre town. Im still substantially less forthcoming than euro and playing more like modern mafia imo.
What gives?
I'm still well aware I could be confirmation biasing there
You're really not though. I see you exploring and processing. The difference in Modern was more than just withholding a read here and there
I'm way more confident on Rhand
Well, you're probably both scum. But with Rhand, there's just no way he believes the case he's pushing, and he's doing literally nothing else. You, I would not want to lynch right now. Partially because I haven't seen anything that screams scum yet, just things that don't feel like townKJ. And partially because if I'm wrong, your flip would tell me basically nothing, and that's not okay in a game like this.
Idk obviously its rough being a consensus scumread d1 of a micro and thats a reasonable goal regardless of alignment but, well
It doesnt make me want to vote elsewhere yknow?
If shes scum, rhand probably isnt. The hammer it through mentality doesnt super make sense then. I wanna say no kj because shes annoyed hes being townread for nothing. Shadow/cantrip/tubba all work
If shes not, well, doesnt give me much. Rhand could be hammering through a mislynch. Shadow/tubba could be just letting one happen. Cantrips positioning kinda doesnt look like what scum would do when a townie gets run up? Still cant see scum kj...
Anyway.
2 days left.
@KCC this here is your last chance to
fakeclaim watcherVote Rhand
@KCC: KJ is not doing anything unexpected town!KJ, and he’d be playing much worse as scum imo.
"Entering school, I was already exceptionally bright, my perfect scores on early test papers arousing such suspicion that I carefully achieved only average grades thereafter."
KCC (2): Rhand, tom
Rhand (2): KCC, shadow
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59PM Eastern on Friday, 15 Nov.
y'all are good on posting btw. everybody posted since yesterday at least once. keep up that pace and we'll all be happy.
this vote count has been edited to match the count as of its actual placement. i posted this before I saw the previous post.
this vote count has been edited AGAIN because 1+1 = 2
Dig it
Pretty sure.
In full context shes saying that you should have been suspicious of that which, like her defense, is reasonable but not convincing. So its a regardless of alignment thing imo
But if shes scum the "for basically no reason" speaks volumes
Doing nothing else eh?
What about all the town reads I put out?
@Shadow: go into what you agree with from KCC re:me please.
That’s probably scum frustration for losing a possible mislynch.
Decisions decisions
Cantrip in a vacuum hasn’t pinged me either way, but I am pretty sure I caught KCC and I am townreading everyone else.
This interaction makes Shadow, KJ and tom all town:
This is Shadow’s typical way of trying to confuse scum about role division.
This is tom figuring that out, which scum!tom wouldn’t post in thread because it’s predictable he would clear both Shadow and naive KJ, which does happen:
This is KJ’s obvious naive town mentality, not realising what Shadow was doing even when tom almost literally told him.
My Tubba town read is a bit weaker, but he’s probably not scum with KCC, and his clearing of KJ would be bad scum!play in this playerlist.
This is a soft clear of KJ
And here he continues at that while naming KCC as only scumread, which would be bad scum play if KCC is really his buddy.
KCC and Cantrip are the only possible scum, with a slight possibility of a rusty tubba.
KCC / Cantrip or KCC / tubba.
I was wondering why (when I’m not too busy to actively play) I get townread when I’m scum and scumread when I’m town.
I reread myself to see where all the scum reads can come from, and I think what I have to stop doing is convincing the scum I caught that they’re scum. It doesn’t make sense and must give off wrong vibes to others reading that.
When I’m scum I don’t do that: I convince town that other town is scum.
I’m going to fix that in my town game
These?
Well, until now when you've started picking up votes. Now you suddenly have volumes to say. That didn't work for Az in Modern, and it's not going to work here
I got suspicious of him for not reacting to those reads, the reads were there first. So, what, you're saying I saw that KJ was being townread and then... just pushed that way anyway knowing it'd be hard, and then got frustrated about it? What?
That's definitely backwards, but it's also really obvious what you meant there, if Rhand actually cared about it
I think your push on KJ is you trying to destroy his town cred because all the town reads he gathered quickly make him hard to mislynch. And yes, I did feel frustration in your tone. Which is a normal feeling for scum to have when a possible mislynch slips away.
And no, to this non-native speaker it wasn’t obvious at all what tubba meant. Why would I not care about that as scum anyhow?
KCC is trying to use a bunch of tells that are NAI at best to push my lynch here.
Please burn her with fire if I get lynched.
Rhands self meta realization feels like an odd thing for him to fake as scum.
Unvote
Why aren’t the scum just holding up a big neon sign saying “I’m scum”? That would make my life easier.
I need to read through Rhand again, but my initial thoughts is that his case is flimsy. He’s made some points but not enough to shove the needle for me.
I agree that it's a little confusing, which is why I asked him about it in post 84. Granted, he didn't answer (until now), but how do you read "Tom usually has kid gloves on around me and his pushing me this game, which could mean anything with Tom. Probably >scummy, as I think it’d be easier to just bury me without getting his hands as dirty" and come out of it with "Tubba thinks Tom is scum"?
I had a vote on you in my post because I was seeing zero scumhunting coming from you. I refreshed and this makes me feel moderately better about you. Still, we have a little more than 36 hours, so who's scum? Why are we having to drag reads out of you?
You have no concerns putting Rhand at L-2, but despite multiple vague allusions to finding me scummy "by default", no vote? Vote me if you think I'm scummy. I'm a big boy; I won't cry.
No, I don’t have concerns about putting someone at L-2, because that’s literally only 2 votes in a game this small. Being the second vote on someone is not me saying “claim now you’re at L-2”.
Vote Cantrip
Too many idioms in one sentence for me.
My point wasn't that you were fine putting him at claim range; L-2 is the "safe zone" where if he's town both scum are going to have to draw attention to quickly hammer.
So here's my big question: Why aren't you trying to figure me out? I don't think you've asked me a single question this game other than "you scum?" You've danced around me maybe being scum (but by default!) all Day, but haven't tested me, tried to get reads from me...anything. I've been waiting for it, because town!you loves figuring people out. You've been fine asking other people to weigh in on me (which, hint, helps you figure them out, but not me), but nothing TO me. Even now, you're just responding to my question and voting me.
Vote Shadow
This is not town Shadow.
Because you were saying Tubba can't be a buddy with KCC because KCC was Tubba's "only" scumread, which was unlikely to come from scum. But then you softened that by saying Tom was also a scumread. But neither of them were scumreads. They were "not-scum" reads. So it felt like you were falsely narrowing your PoE to me by giving Tubba a really bad pass. Especially since that's one of the posts that I think could be indicative of Tubby being buddies with KCC.
I'm not voting Shadow for voting me (after I goaded him into doing so). I'm voting him for voting me without him ever once trying to figure me out. If he really thought I was scum, he'd be doing something to suss me, but just a "oh, ok, here's a vote"?
Will check in after.
But seriously, I was almost certain that you expected that goading me into voting for you would push me off of you (as has previously worked on me). So I voted to see how’d your react (and because if you were really trying to push me off, that’s more likely scum you).
It’s just my natural predisposition, I’m a lurker. I’d dispute having to drag reads from me, I feel like every time I’ve been asked for an opinion, I’ve given it. I’ll concede that I should be more proactive, I’m not there yet.
No, I figured if you were going to vote me, that would be when you'd (finally) provide some analysis, but it was nearly a naked vote.
Why did you *exasperated sigh* at the start of 187? What were you exasperated about?
Cool story? But you're still not displaying any figuring out. It's like you're just coming back to default-scumreading me because you don't have anywhere else to go. Why the complacency?
EWP: Tubba, Maybe "dragging" is exaggerated, but you're certainly not volunteering any reads. I mean...I just asked you who's scum and you quoted the question, but didn't respond.