re: the question to Asta, it's not just a surface level "didn't vote, everyone should vote" but the lack of an RVS vote is related, yes. A bunch of people left their RVS votes at home this game, I didn't comment on those because I think Asta's and maaaybe Mindreaver's are the only ones that might be AI.
Fulcrum: Hi. Been a while.
So, I need some insight into Gemma. I feel like she doesn't need to sort Nacho, and she isn't really engaging me on that.
Also actually, some insight into Nacho would be good too. He seems to be doing this thing where he's trying to get Vaimes to stop scumreading him passive-aggressively and I'm scumreading it quite a bit.
Also they got rid of dark theme when Curse bought us I think. It's not there anymore.
Hey Killjoy! RIP the dark theme, guess I'll just destroy my eyes.
For Gemma, I think there's a distinction between her not needing to sort Nacho and her not being /ready/ to sort Nacho. At a guess, she doesn't want to share her meta, because she wants to mull it over without Nacho seeing and adjusting to it. Try engaging her on something else?
For Nacho, the bit where he's like "it's my first game back, don't lynch me" (or whatever) is playing Vaimes' feelings in an ick way, yeah. I can't offer you much insight, I don't know him well. I don't know if he's the kind of person who gets manipulative as town.
I also don't get his thought process here. Feels like he's jumping for reads without having anything to land on. Or like he has reads in mind already, and is finding reasons to justify them.
Is vezok's "I didn't have questions to ask to clarify what was said because my mind was already made," a normal thought process for them?
re: the question to Asta, it's not just a surface level "didn't vote, everyone should vote" but the lack of an RVS vote is related, yes. A bunch of people left their RVS votes at home this game, I didn't comment on those because I think Asta's and maaaybe Mindreaver's are the only ones that might be AI.
Still hoping Asta comes back and answers the question tbh
Actually
@Slothful: you said this was Asta's second game, do you know where she(?) played her first one?
Asta claimed a perfectly natural reason to RVS and then didn't actually vote the jokeread --> Asta is avoiding RVS because Asta is nervous about being perceived in a way --> Asta is maybe possibly a wolf
But Asta is Very New and no one really explained RVS in the DLP game I was almost in, at least that I saw rofl
The Mindreaver version is basically that I gave him a perfect excuse to actually place a vote regardless of his alignment and it was weird that he didn't RVS at all given that, but I kind of already said that just not in as many words
For Gemma, I think there's a distinction between her not needing to sort Nacho and her not being /ready/ to sort Nacho. At a guess, she doesn't want to share her meta, because she wants to mull it over without Nacho seeing and adjusting to it. Try engaging her on something else?
I also don't get [Nacho's] thought process here. Feels like he's jumping for reads without having anything to land on. Or like he has reads in mind already, and is finding reasons to justify them.
Examples please, person who is definitely just my best friend and nothing more.
Asta claimed a perfectly natural reason to RVS and then didn't actually vote the jokeread --> Asta is avoiding RVS because Asta is nervous about being perceived in a way --> Asta is maybe possibly a wolf
But Asta is Very New and no one really explained RVS in the DLP game I was almost in, at least that I saw rofl
The Mindreaver version is basically that I gave him a perfect excuse to actually place a vote regardless of his alignment and it was weird that he didn't RVS at all given that, but I kind of already said that just not in as many words
Gemma: Wrong. It's the way you're handling Nacho; you don't appear to actually want to figure out his alignment. When asked if you've seen AI things from him, you responded that no, you hadn't. You then stated that your way of reading him was very specific, but was true a long time ago (might still be true now, no way to know for sure). See, for me, if my meta was stale, I'd at least take that into account when trying to sort him. You do not appear to be doing that, nor do you really appear to have considered even doing that. Throw that on top of the fact that I've played with Nacho before and don't recall him being so far off the Mafia grid that he's immune to standard mafia tells, and you've got yourself (or rather, myself) a problem with your play here.
Your assumption that Gemma should be engaging with me more in these early pages to figure out my alignment is misguided. I've been playing mafia for over a decade and prefer playing scum. Doesn't mean that I'm impossible to catch and doesn't mean that I don't have my tells, but it does mean I have a fairly large range as either alignment, and, as a result, expecting someone to figure me out in 20 posts is kind of unreasonable. When she's ready to give a read, she will - it's just something that probably won't happen early day 1.
Why are you bothered by her not giving a read on me but not by me not giving a read on her?
M1ndreaver coming in and making the Zelda point here is awkward but not necessarily scummy. Just really awkward.
Silver saying that he's mindmelding with Sloth here over Asta based on one meaningless post is a bit ridiculous, but I don't think it's something that Silver pursues in such a way as scum - he's hyping it up in an excited puppy kind of way and it just feels very genuine.
@Vaimes:
M1ndreaver's self-meta saying that he is more energetic as town is not a towntell. Like, if he was super energetic and went "I don't understand why you're scumreading me here - this is beyond what I can do as scum" I'd get it but that's not what happened.
I almost want to say that Tom's lyrics here make more sense in explaining Mindreaver-scum than Last-town, but I would imagine that he's townreading Last for attempting to scumhunt instead of argue over trivial details (playing the game instead "debating over the rules like legislators at a court case"). I don't mind the mindreaver vote for obvious reasons.
Light town read on Rhand's #194; in particular, the expanded empathy defense.
I'm townreading Tom and it's the most fun townread that I have! Also getting cold feet on LW, whoops.
Based on what, exactly?
I like the reads and reasoning he's provided so far + this is one of his "less likely to be scum" gimmicks. It's still a light town read and I'll likely become more engaged in getting him to explain his thoughts when doing such a thing becomes more urgent, but for now I dig it.
@Kitty: Can you order the playerlist from town to scum for me? I don't necessarily need reasons (although reasons are nice), but I'm having trouble placing where you are ATM.
Tom putting up a gimmick is totally NAI.
He’s very comprehensible in this one, which for me is a big relief. He’s had gimmicks where I couldn’t understand what he meant. His thoughts are clear here.
You do have experience playing with tom and his gimmicks, right?
vote Axelrod
Uh, definitely not recently. Maybe never? It is possible I read a game once where he faked a gimmick? I can't remember.
Still don't like it. Maybe it is NAI for him, but he oughtn't do it as Town. It helps no one. I don't care if he thinks it's fun.
Tom is tom and you won't change him this game.
What are your thoughts elsewhere?
After sitting down at a computer and taking some ~thoughtful time~ I still think that Silver is town. There isn't a smoking gun on the read that I can point to, but I do think that his approach as a whole feels pretty thoughtful and genuine; his observations hit that nice sweet spot of off-the-wall but not too off-the-wall that makes me think far more likely town than scum.
Also actually, some insight into Nacho would be good too. He seems to be doing this thing where he's trying to get Vaimes to stop scumreading him passive-aggressively and I'm scumreading it quite a bit.
The "don't lynch me because it's my first game back on this site!!!" was trollish banter - I've already made my return and don't care more than usual about being lynched here. I understand why you don't like the way I'm handling Vaimes in general, but I do think that his tunnel on me is garbage and I want him to know as much, and I know that it's been a while since we've played together but he knows better.
@Gemma: Expectation was on the game flow; the game had finally started up, he was around, why not engage with what was happening? I still don't really like 55 because it was inaccurate and lazy but I acknowledge neither of those things necessarily lead to scum.
Yeah, part of my question there was about your knowledge of Last as a player because... based on my one game of experience with him... he, um, defies? expectations? Think that's a tactful enough way of putting it.
I know we've played together before but I've forgotten pretty much everything about him and that brief read is no longer something I care about.
The beat breaks and your teeth break
Keep your canines embedded in my knuckles as a keepsake
It would seem your veneers just mere souvenirs
Falling out your mouth and on to the landscape vote fonti
It's not a significant difference in read strength, but I'm happier here.
Unvote, Vote: Axelrod
I don't like that Axelrod's focus this game has been nothing but KCC and tom's gimmick. They're low-hanging fruit as far as things to talk and push are concerned, and although I don't think I disagree horribly with anything he's said so far (except for his dislike of the gimmick), I know he's a capable town player and I can't imagine him not having anything else to say other than what he has.
I feel pretty good about all of Vaimes, Killjoy, Lastwhisper, Silver, and tom being town which is probably way too many for this stage in the game. I feel decent about Axelrod being scum, I feel a tiny bit less decent about M1ndreaver being scum.
Sorry, I should probably use words there. My line of thinking is that tom is less likely to waste a good scum rand on a faked post restriction. I don't really think that's a good or sensible thing to try to get an alignment read from, though, and I think the practice of faking a post restriction is completely ***** for town since it makes a slot unreadable (insert tom "I'm unreadable anyway" etc.) and therefore should never be townread, and if this were DLP then yes I would be lynching him right now, but this isn't DLP so it's whatever.
Also I'm salty because I enjoy chatting with tom and was looking forward to playing with him and now instead I have to play with a jukebox version of him
The beat breaks and your teeth break
Keep your canines embedded in my knuckles as a keepsake
It would seem your veneers just mere souvenirs
Falling out your mouth and on to the landscape vote fonti
Also I'm salty because I enjoy chatting with tom and was looking forward to playing with him and now instead I have to play with a jukebox version of him
Also I'm salty because I enjoy chatting with tom and was looking forward to playing with him and now instead I have to play with a jukebox version of him
yeah, i definitely get this.
but i was also looking forward to the opportunity to read tom through a spider tom gimmick even though that's kind of weird???
it's like a game within a game now!
Sometimes I let my ego get the best of me
Sometimes I wonder why my stress is stressing me
Sometimes I lay awake and I can't go to sleep
This is my introduction to anxiety
Sometimes I need someone to take control of me
Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me
Sometimes I think that ***** ain't what it used to be
This is my introduction to anxiety Nacho town
I love the thought of being with you
Or maybe it's the thought of not being so alone
Man, ****, I really love being in love
But I also really love not crying on the phone Silver town
Solving puzzles of the universe from jupiter to mars
Playing scientists to try and say we flew there in our cars
Like, "maybe it's not all bad, this scenic view's bizarre"
Watching hydrocarbon neptune snow dissolving from the stars
I never thought I'd say this, but frankly it's been peaceful
To escape from that distasteful state of hate, deceit, and evil gemma town
Solving puzzles of the universe from jupiter to mars
Playing scientists to try and say we flew there in our cars
Like, "maybe it's not all bad, this scenic view's bizarre"
Watching hydrocarbon neptune snow dissolving from the stars
I never thought I'd say this, but frankly it's been peaceful
To escape from that distasteful state of hate, deceit, and evil gemma town
@Rhand:Tom's vote on Axelrod here seemed to be ragging on him for going after low-hanging fruit (I spy a girl I can get because she doesn't get too many likes), which I most certainly agree with - his two substantive thoughts this game have been "KCC claim bad" and "tom gimmick bad" is essentially the bare minimum to contributing this game.
I agree with Tom's observation in #95 that Sloth has a light and breezy tone to his entrance so far. I'm a little harder to please than he is though, so don't share the townread he gets from it.
If I'm correct on what Tom's townread on me is, then it's a good reason for a townlean. It's probably likelier that I'm reading too much into it because I long to be understood.
Aight, I read everything, and here is my current position:
Nacho: more than anything his seemed like a player signalling they want to control the game, and be the big dick on campus. I'm not sure what KCC is necessarily doing with a soft claim, but I don't think it's something important either way. Time will tell. One thing that did give me pause was that scum have daychat, so coming up with a fakeclaim that sounds scummy might be a group effort, instead of a single scum going off the rails early. In any case I didn't see anything from Nacho that raised any red flags for me. I'm actually leaning town on Nacho, because if Nacho was scum, and wanted to know a presumably town KCCs role, this was probably the worst possible way to go about it. Which brings me to...
Vez: first, let's, vote vez. All his posts are very surface level so far. For example:
I'm townreading tom and Vaimes up to now. I also agree with their reads on Nacho (only Vaimes) and slothful (tom).
Killjoy also looks pretty good. The fact that he is talking freely with several people indicates he is town.
Gemma's a bit weird, but also townish.
LW is still a question mark for me.
vote nacho
kj is good for talking. Right, nobody else is doing that. While I don't necessarily see anything from Tom either way yet, I don't think "slothful, said v/la a few times" is so strong a read that it sways me. *****, I've seen lastwhisper say he's working and can post 3 times in a row most games.
This post just simply looks like somebody jumping on consensus town reads and looking for any way to justify it.
I understand where Axelrod is coming from with his vote on Kitty, but the rumors of him killing RVS with that vote is greatly exaggerated and don't like how that's being leveraged to criticize Gemma for a late RVS vote.
I don't understand why someone softs that they have a "scummy" role - like, is it pro-scum (like PGO) where you need to out it to mitigate damage or is it just going to be a *****ty claim when you're at L-2? If it's the former, why not claim? If it's the latter, why hint at something like that at all instead of trying to draw a kill first? I don't think the half claim is doing anyone good here and since scum already knows you're nothing to be afraid of, why not full claim and give the town a little something more to work with?
Like look at this post. I had to go back to check who accused axelrod of killing RVS and it's just silver. Nobody even commented on that thing, so I have no idea where "greatly exaggerated comes from.
And the second part feels like total rolefishing. If you want to see the claim just vote, don't stand on the sidelines and sling mud.
here he goes after Nacho, but as I mentioned above, it's surface level thinking. Gemma is town because of gifs? That's straight up BS.
I understand where Axelrod is coming from with his vote on Kitty, but the rumors of him killing RVS with that vote is greatly exaggerated and don't like how that's being leveraged to criticize Gemma for a late RVS vote.
I don't understand why someone softs that they have a "scummy" role - like, is it pro-scum (like PGO) where you need to out it to mitigate damage or is it just going to be a *****ty claim when you're at L-2? If it's the former, why not claim? If it's the latter, why hint at something like that at all instead of trying to draw a kill first? I don't think the half claim is doing anyone good here and since scum already knows you're nothing to be afraid of, why not full claim and give the town a little something more to work with?
Like look at this post. I had to go back to check who accused axelrod of killing RVS and it's just silver. Nobody even commented on that thing, so I have no idea where "greatly exaggerated comes from.
And the second part feels like total rolefishing. If you want to see the claim just vote, don't stand on the sidelines and sling mud.
I'm townreading tom and Vaimes up to now. I also agree with their reads on Nacho (only Vaimes) and slothful (tom).
Killjoy also looks pretty good. The fact that he is talking freely with several people indicates he is town.
Gemma's a bit weird, but also townish.
LW is still a question mark for me.
vote nacho
Why mention LW specifically as a question mark?
Cause I was scum with him last game. And I was also part of the previous game where he was scum. I felt like I should comment on him because I should be able to discern some scummines/ towniness from him after these games, but right now I'm at nothing.
this is so weird. Is there anyone else that can claim to be a lastwhisper whisperer? Lol, Vaimes
Vaimes: Leaning town. I liked your "distancing" post, because that wasn't something I was thinking with Nacho/Silver, and it's a total possibility. Your last comments I need to go back and re-read when I have a non-mobile browser, and see if there is anything there.
Silver: the other guy that wants to be the big dick :). You I was leaning town on until you went and voted rhand, now I'm just nullish on you. What was up with that? Your reasoning, iirc, was that he just feels off? Suspect my friend, especially because:
Rhand: we mindmelded quite a bit on vez's entrance. I like that he stood up for Nacho, because the push there was justified but misguided. So solid townread at the moment, which is frickin bizzare because we're usually trying to kill each other.
Boarding a plane now, so catch you all in 3 hours.
This game is moving way too fast for me to be able to respond to stuff in a timely manner. You"re all gonna have to wait for me to get access to a computer before I'll answer your questions.
Also just wantrd to comment on Mindreaver's omgus. Nice piece of work there. Accussing me of having surface level reads on page 3. Well drop me on my head and call me Jimmy, but I can't have deep reads when there's nothing to justify them.
I feel a lot more confident on my vote now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
On my way home now. I’m going to open my laptop and respond to stuff once I’m home.
Will take a while, I live in the country with the biggest traffic jams in the world.
I don't really understand how you got so deep into this tunnel?
Yes, I was wrong that Silver was scumreading Gemma - I didn't think he was aaking a legitimate question because I thought the answer was obvious. That was wrong, but don't really understand how you got from that to "any worlds where Nacho is town requires redacted information and that's LOL".
I also was nitpicky and overly aggressive in the early game and I can see people being weirded out by that if they didn't know what I was doing, but there's nothing scummy about either of those qualities in early game when people are trying to generate information.
Then there's my position on KCC's claim; claiming that I'm "freaking out as scum" because a townie held up a neon sign that said "LYNCH ME, I'M NOT CONFIRMABLE" is ridiculously dumb; if faced with a claim like that as scum, chances are I try to mislynch her eventually but I'm not so inexperienced to the point where I figure it's something I have to attempt immediately like you're currently implying.
Your push on me is frustrating because I don't think it's coming from scum but you're pushing me like you are scum - you're attacking small pieces of my play but ignoring my play as a whole, you're acting like I've messed up to the point where I'm either terrible or scum despite it being early as hell and despite me not doing anything close to that bad (I've been scattered and I've had points that were incorrect, but again, nothing that explains the "gosh I can't see any world where Nacho is town that isn't zany". If you're actually invested in reading me this game, take a step back and make an effort to see where I'm coming from.
If I'm wrong, I expect to come around on you sooner or later on my own terms.
The LOL part is more about me accurately reading into something super obscure, rather than like. Dismissing your alignment.
I remember when Voxx softed a scummy role D1 in whatever game that was where Iso was a neutral and solved the scumteam Day 1. He was a town rolecop. Could be wrong, but I don't think anyone made a huge deal of it, so I don't know why KCC doing it is any different. This game has a lot of roles, so of course town is going to have some scummy roles. There probably aren't enough mechanically traditional town roles to go around.
Sorry, but the last bit just sounds like CFTWR. I think I'm the only one voting you, and it feels weird to me that you're that worried about my read, especially if it's wrong. You don't trust me to take in new information and change my mind?
Again, if something jumps out at me as being towny from you, I'll make note of it. I don't really want to fall into the trap of scumreading you and squeezing every post henceforth through the scumidifier.
And, hypothetically, making a bad play does not mean you are a bad player.
ya so 5 pages in and I think Vezok is closer to his scum self, not as natural, reads that I feel like he pulled out of thin air
whiteknighting Fulcrum, and somehow turning that into a reason to scumlean me more???
Vote: Vezok
@Vezok
What is so townie about Ful's posts? like everything outside the first post is literally just ok, nothing that should sway the needle for you at least not enough to warrant shading me for hating her opening post
easy questions, easy call out, and the last line in #220 is just awkward
Do you know what whiteknighting is? Because this post implies you don't.
fulcrum: yes, Last TMI's more than the average scum player. He ~tends to be obvious about partner interactions, with vezok being the exception last game.
I liked your Gemma read. You may be a villager for the next 72 hours.
-
Nacho, an olive branch to you.
Unvote, vote Axelrod
I will explore this.
-
Hottake: Rhand is scum because nobody has tried to mislunch him yet. sideeyesemoji
I think you should start spelling her name with one "l". Fu-l-crum. Fulcrum.
I thought she was being a tiny bit two-faced, first in her interaction with Nacho by eating away at his Silver townread, then in her assessment of Nacho as "having reads in his mind already", which I think is a believable reaction to some of his earliest posts but not so much to his later posts, which I think should have changed her take on him. What are your thoughts?
My Mafia experience started a month ago on DarkLordPotter when Sloth (the jackanape...........) roped me into a game with him that's technically still going, so I won't say much about it. We did opening votes but mostly joke-y.
My Mafia experience started a month ago on DarkLordPotter when Sloth (the jackanape...........) roped me into a game with him that's technically still going, so I won't say much about it. We did opening votes but mostly joke-y.
Last sentence is talking about an ongoing game. Don't.
Looking forward to any thoughts you have on stuff so far.
Goddddddddddd I'm gonna spend the next two days trying to catch up I s2g because I tried speed-reading but I do NOT know names well enough yet and it's all a blur-jumble. Mornings are my Magic Arena time gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh and weekends suck for me. Will be on more soon.
@vez sorry man that's not gonna do it, you came out with reads and no justification at all, and claiming it's day 3 what do you expect is just not how it is brah. I don't really know how I feel about a bunch of people, mostly due to the pace and travelling (oog: Charlotte airport is the ******* worst). But that's doesn't mean I get to just say things and not get called on it.
On that note, is anyone else gonna talk to me :). Silver I didn't vote you because I'm a contrary mofo and didn't want to follow your breadcrumbs.
@nacho why was my Zelda gif odd?
@last help me sort you please.
@tom you gonna just townread anyone who talks in complete sentences? I feel like all the active players can't possibly all be town
I think you should start spelling her name with one "l". Fu-l-crum. Fulcrum.
I thought she was being a tiny bit two-faced, first in her interaction with Nacho by eating away at his Silver townread, then in her assessment of Nacho as "having reads in his mind already", which I think is a believable reaction to some of his earliest posts but not so much to his later posts, which I think should have changed her take on him. What are your thoughts?
Why did I have to prod him for him to take the correction to his impression of silver into account?
The beat breaks and your teeth break
Keep your canines embedded in my knuckles as a keepsake
It would seem your veneers just mere souvenirs
Falling out your mouth and on to the landscape vote fonti
Wall incoming, but I think there’s enough info now to provide an early reads post.
Silver:
He’s having fun in RVS and his reaction to Shadow in #14 feels pure. I would be very surprised if that comes from scum!Silver because I don’t expect him to think about a post like that as scum and craft an answer when it’s totally not necessary.
His mixed feelings from Nacho pushing him are normal.
His vote on me seems to come out of nowhere, but when he explains it, he’s voting me for what town always mislynch me for when I get mislynched: my posts feel weird.
Verdict: town
Lastwhisper:
He starts his own sidegame instead of playing the game at first, and then calls Nacho wolfy for his reaction to KCC, which I think was a very pure reaction. Nacho gets more flak for that though; too much to all come from scum.
He doesn’t like tom’s gimmick, but his reaction to it is better than Axelrod’s: he merely says he’s not a fan of the gimmick and that tom doesn’t give him town vibes. Ergo, he’s not calling the gimmick itself scummy, which is good.
His response to Vaimes where he uses the word “probably” talking about his tells not being AI bugs me bigtime. It looks like he jokingly wants to get rid of Vaimes’ push.
His reads in #163 don’t look like real reads. He doesn’t give a real read on both Vaimes and Silver and waffles on Nacho. The only thing there is a townread on KJ.
A lot of scum!pings there, but his later posts are suddenly way better. I like how he questions Silver’s Rhand vote and how he starts real worldbuilding and pressuring Vezok.
Verdict: lean town (if he’s scum he won’t keep up his new posting)
Shadow:
Not enough posts for a read. Null.
I can read him very well though if he actually posts.
Vaimes:
He is in jokey spam-mode, which is a good sign. He knows his own meta though, and I’ve seen him make a whole town believe he’s town before.
There are a few things that trouble me: He voted Nacho, who was low hanging fruit at that point. He claims the existence of a neutral. And the things he’s accusing LW of are dependent of the alignment of the ones LW is interacting with.
I do like that he goes from Nacho to Axel now.
Verdict: Not sure. I’m going to classify him as null for now and will see where he goes with his Axel vote.
@Vaimes: talk more about Axel please. And what is your LW read right now?
KCC:
Claiming a scummy role from the get-go is the townie thing to do. Scum doesn’t like locking themselves into a claim from the start. I know a few players that do things like that, but KCC doesn’t strike me as one of those, unless she is consciously changing up her game. Which is totally unnecessary because she hasn’t played that many games recently that we all know her meta.
I like her Nacho reaction and have a total mindmeld with her question to Vaimes in #200
Verdict: town
Vezok:
Again a Nacho voter. The fact that she says he agrees with Vaimes on Nacho probably means that she isn’t scum with Vaimes. Saying later on that Nacho is scum because her posts don’t make sense points to a scummy mindset: not making sense is not a scumtell but something scum looks for when trying to get town lynched (I know that all too well). Also not a fan of the randomness of people she gives reads on.
Her vote on Mind is weak and using omgus as extra confidence is again a scummy mindset: omgus in itself is never a tell but often used by scum during fake hunting.
There’s a possible link with Fulcrum because of the way she defends her.
Verdict: scum
@Vezok: you said you gave a (non)read on LW because of the recent scumgame with him. I was also scum there. Why not give a read on me there?
Dkings:
No posts. Null.
Mindreaver:
I like his self-meta because it’s true. And if he does this as scum after a hiatus, that would be extremely dumb because now he has to keep up his energy level.
I mindmeld with him about Nacho and Vezok.
Verdict: town
Axelrod:
The fact that he chose a semi-serious RVS target is bothersome. What is worse is that he uses KCC’s later posts to strengthen that vote. And then he calls tom’s gimmick in itself scummy.
Verdict: scum
KillJoy:
He’s very easy to read as town, and this is town!him.
I wonder if he can mimick his towngame as scum. I haven’t seen him as scum in a loooong time. But I doubt he can. His towngame is extremely pure.
Verdict: town
Tom:
He is throwing out reads all the time, and with the songs he has to really think about them. All his reads are pretty much fleshed out. I know tom is capable of a lot as scum, but this would be too amazing to be true. I’m convinced this is town!tom.
He reminds me of that game where used animal behavior to talk about all of us, which also gave deep insight.
Verdict: town
Slothful:
Some of his questions feel like stating the obvious, but others seem like he’s trying to figure out the game. Not enough there for a read.
Verdict: null
Gemma:
Not a lot of explanation in her posts, but I liked all the votes she cast when she cast them (apart from the brief tom vote).
When she does post longer sentences, I tend to mindmeld with her (Vezok, the tom gimmick).
Verdict: town
Nacho:
I think the reaction she gave to KCC could come from either alignment, with a bigger chance of coming from town. Scum demanding claims on page 1 is pretty darn dumb, and Nacho isn’t dumb.
I like where her vote is right now.
I don’t like the mindreaver vote and the continued KCC pressure.
Verdict: lean town
Fulcrum:
Her first post feels like she distances herself from town a bit with how she talks about tom. Probably NAI though because she hasn’t been active on the site for a while.
I like how she wants Nacho to stop about KCC, which is indeed a needless distraction in thread by now.
Not much more there yet. I’ll need more to form a read.
Verdict: null
Asta:
Nothing really there. It bothers me that she did read the game when she posted #293 and didn’t comment on anything apart from answering a question directed at her.
Can be newb scum that doesn’t really know how to play scum.
Verdict: lean scum
Town
Silver
KCC
Mindreaver
KJ
Tom
Gemma
Lean town
LW
Nacho
Null
Shadow
Vaimes
Dkings
Slothful
fulcrum
Lean scum
Asta
Scum
Vezok
Axelrod
There almost has to be scum in the non-posters. Unless I’m wrong about one of my townclears, but this looks like a good base to start off with.
Hey Killjoy! RIP the dark theme, guess I'll just destroy my eyes.
For Gemma, I think there's a distinction between her not needing to sort Nacho and her not being /ready/ to sort Nacho. At a guess, she doesn't want to share her meta, because she wants to mull it over without Nacho seeing and adjusting to it. Try engaging her on something else?
For Nacho, the bit where he's like "it's my first game back, don't lynch me" (or whatever) is playing Vaimes' feelings in an ick way, yeah. I can't offer you much insight, I don't know him well. I don't know if he's the kind of person who gets manipulative as town.
I also don't get his thought process here. Feels like he's jumping for reads without having anything to land on. Or like he has reads in mind already, and is finding reasons to justify them.
Is vezok's "I didn't have questions to ask to clarify what was said because my mind was already made," a normal thought process for them?
Actually
@Slothful: you said this was Asta's second game, do you know where she(?) played her first one?
Nevermind looool
It was literally on DLP as CerberAsta I should've looked there straight after Sloth mentioned her but it didn't click for me until just now
Stand-by
-------------
Okay so, the read is
Asta claimed a perfectly natural reason to RVS and then didn't actually vote the jokeread --> Asta is avoiding RVS because Asta is nervous about being perceived in a way --> Asta is maybe possibly a wolf
But Asta is Very New and no one really explained RVS in the DLP game I was almost in, at least that I saw rofl
The Mindreaver version is basically that I gave him a perfect excuse to actually place a vote regardless of his alignment and it was weird that he didn't RVS at all given that, but I kind of already said that just not in as many words
(Shhh let him scumread me it's more fun.)
Examples please, person who is definitely just my best friend and nothing more.
Your assumption that Gemma should be engaging with me more in these early pages to figure out my alignment is misguided. I've been playing mafia for over a decade and prefer playing scum. Doesn't mean that I'm impossible to catch and doesn't mean that I don't have my tells, but it does mean I have a fairly large range as either alignment, and, as a result, expecting someone to figure me out in 20 posts is kind of unreasonable. When she's ready to give a read, she will - it's just something that probably won't happen early day 1.
Why are you bothered by her not giving a read on me but not by me not giving a read on her?
M1ndreaver coming in and making the Zelda point here is awkward but not necessarily scummy. Just really awkward.
Silver saying that he's mindmelding with Sloth here over Asta based on one meaningless post is a bit ridiculous, but I don't think it's something that Silver pursues in such a way as scum - he's hyping it up in an excited puppy kind of way and it just feels very genuine.
@Vaimes:
M1ndreaver's self-meta saying that he is more energetic as town is not a towntell. Like, if he was super energetic and went "I don't understand why you're scumreading me here - this is beyond what I can do as scum" I'd get it but that's not what happened.
I almost want to say that Tom's lyrics here make more sense in explaining Mindreaver-scum than Last-town, but I would imagine that he's townreading Last for attempting to scumhunt instead of argue over trivial details (playing the game instead "debating over the rules like legislators at a court case"). I don't mind the mindreaver vote for obvious reasons.
Light town read on Rhand's #194; in particular, the expanded empathy defense.
I like the reads and reasoning he's provided so far + this is one of his "less likely to be scum" gimmicks. It's still a light town read and I'll likely become more engaged in getting him to explain his thoughts when doing such a thing becomes more urgent, but for now I dig it.
Tom is tom and you won't change him this game.
What are your thoughts elsewhere?
How are either of Vezok's points in that post objectively true and confirmable?
After sitting down at a computer and taking some ~thoughtful time~ I still think that Silver is town. There isn't a smoking gun on the read that I can point to, but I do think that his approach as a whole feels pretty thoughtful and genuine; his observations hit that nice sweet spot of off-the-wall but not too off-the-wall that makes me think far more likely town than scum.
The "don't lynch me because it's my first game back on this site!!!" was trollish banter - I've already made my return and don't care more than usual about being lynched here. I understand why you don't like the way I'm handling Vaimes in general, but I do think that his tunnel on me is garbage and I want him to know as much, and I know that it's been a while since we've played together but he knows better.
I know we've played together before but I've forgotten pretty much everything about him and that brief read is no longer something I care about.
Yes. Absolutely.
Keep your canines embedded in my knuckles as a keepsake
It would seem your veneers just mere souvenirs
Falling out your mouth and on to the landscape
vote fonti
Unvote, Vote: Axelrod
I don't like that Axelrod's focus this game has been nothing but KCC and tom's gimmick. They're low-hanging fruit as far as things to talk and push are concerned, and although I don't think I disagree horribly with anything he's said so far (except for his dislike of the gimmick), I know he's a capable town player and I can't imagine him not having anything else to say other than what he has.
I feel pretty good about all of Vaimes, Killjoy, Lastwhisper, Silver, and tom being town which is probably way too many for this stage in the game. I feel decent about Axelrod being scum, I feel a tiny bit less decent about M1ndreaver being scum.
yeah, i definitely get this.
but i was also looking forward to the opportunity to read tom through a spider tom gimmick even though that's kind of weird???
it's like a game within a game now!
yeah a bit
am i stupid?
Sometimes I wonder why my stress is stressing me
Sometimes I lay awake and I can't go to sleep
This is my introduction to anxiety
Sometimes I need someone to take control of me
Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me
Sometimes I think that ***** ain't what it used to be
This is my introduction to anxiety
Nacho town
I love the thought of being with you
Or maybe it's the thought of not being so alone
Man, ****, I really love being in love
But I also really love not crying on the phone
Silver town
Solving puzzles of the universe from jupiter to mars
Playing scientists to try and say we flew there in our cars
Like, "maybe it's not all bad, this scenic view's bizarre"
Watching hydrocarbon neptune snow dissolving from the stars
I never thought I'd say this, but frankly it's been peaceful
To escape from that distasteful state of hate, deceit, and evil
gemma town
Gemma/last
Silver/Sloth/kcc
Mind/axel/Fonti
Nacho: more than anything his seemed like a player signalling they want to control the game, and be the big dick on campus. I'm not sure what KCC is necessarily doing with a soft claim, but I don't think it's something important either way. Time will tell. One thing that did give me pause was that scum have daychat, so coming up with a fakeclaim that sounds scummy might be a group effort, instead of a single scum going off the rails early. In any case I didn't see anything from Nacho that raised any red flags for me. I'm actually leaning town on Nacho, because if Nacho was scum, and wanted to know a presumably town KCCs role, this was probably the worst possible way to go about it. Which brings me to...
Vez: first, let's, vote vez. All his posts are very surface level so far. For example:
kj is good for talking. Right, nobody else is doing that. While I don't necessarily see anything from Tom either way yet, I don't think "slothful, said v/la a few times" is so strong a read that it sways me. *****, I've seen lastwhisper say he's working and can post 3 times in a row most games.
This post just simply looks like somebody jumping on consensus town reads and looking for any way to justify it.
here he goes after Nacho, but as I mentioned above, it's surface level thinking. Gemma is town because of gifs? That's straight up BS.
this is so weird. Is there anyone else that can claim to be a lastwhisper whisperer? Lol, Vaimes
Vaimes: Leaning town. I liked your "distancing" post, because that wasn't something I was thinking with Nacho/Silver, and it's a total possibility. Your last comments I need to go back and re-read when I have a non-mobile browser, and see if there is anything there.
Silver: the other guy that wants to be the big dick :). You I was leaning town on until you went and voted rhand, now I'm just nullish on you. What was up with that? Your reasoning, iirc, was that he just feels off? Suspect my friend, especially because:
Rhand: we mindmelded quite a bit on vez's entrance. I like that he stood up for Nacho, because the push there was justified but misguided. So solid townread at the moment, which is frickin bizzare because we're usually trying to kill each other.
Boarding a plane now, so catch you all in 3 hours.
I would appreciate it if we keep using MTGS names.
Also just wantrd to comment on Mindreaver's omgus. Nice piece of work there. Accussing me of having surface level reads on page 3. Well drop me on my head and call me Jimmy, but I can't have deep reads when there's nothing to justify them.
I feel a lot more confident on my vote now.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Am off in Australia myself. Nacho and tom are both US, but their sleep cycles put them in my timezone. Couldn't ask for better company, honestly.
Let me know if you want to chat, if that would help you get up to speed.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Will take a while, I live in the country with the biggest traffic jams in the world.
The LOL part is more about me accurately reading into something super obscure, rather than like. Dismissing your alignment.
I remember when Voxx softed a scummy role D1 in whatever game that was where Iso was a neutral and solved the scumteam Day 1. He was a town rolecop. Could be wrong, but I don't think anyone made a huge deal of it, so I don't know why KCC doing it is any different. This game has a lot of roles, so of course town is going to have some scummy roles. There probably aren't enough mechanically traditional town roles to go around.
Sorry, but the last bit just sounds like CFTWR. I think I'm the only one voting you, and it feels weird to me that you're that worried about my read, especially if it's wrong. You don't trust me to take in new information and change my mind?
Again, if something jumps out at me as being towny from you, I'll make note of it. I don't really want to fall into the trap of scumreading you and squeezing every post henceforth through the scumidifier.
And, hypothetically, making a bad play does not mean you are a bad player.
Do you know what whiteknighting is? Because this post implies you don't.
I liked your Gemma read. You may be a villager for the next 72 hours.
-
Nacho, an olive branch to you.
Unvote, vote Axelrod
I will explore this.
-
Hottake: Rhand is scum because nobody has tried to mislunch him yet. sideeyesemoji
I thought she was being a tiny bit two-faced, first in her interaction with Nacho by eating away at his Silver townread, then in her assessment of Nacho as "having reads in his mind already", which I think is a believable reaction to some of his earliest posts but not so much to his later posts, which I think should have changed her take on him. What are your thoughts?
@Silvercrys3467
My Mafia experience started a month ago on DarkLordPotter when Sloth (the jackanape...........) roped me into a game with him that's technically still going, so I won't say much about it. We did opening votes but mostly joke-y.
Looking forward to any thoughts you have on stuff so far.
Hottake: scumteam is among the non-posters and people that haven't played regularly on MTGS lately
I'm working on a readslist. Expect a wall from me soon.
On that note, is anyone else gonna talk to me :). Silver I didn't vote you because I'm a contrary mofo and didn't want to follow your breadcrumbs.
@nacho why was my Zelda gif odd?
@last help me sort you please.
@tom you gonna just townread anyone who talks in complete sentences? I feel like all the active players can't possibly all be town
Why did I have to prod him for him to take the correction to his impression of silver into account?
Repeat yourself again, I'm gonna scream
Honestly, look at me, please don't read-
Don't modulate the key to not debate with me
Why should a tiny island across the sea regulate the price of tea?
Silver:
He’s having fun in RVS and his reaction to Shadow in #14 feels pure. I would be very surprised if that comes from scum!Silver because I don’t expect him to think about a post like that as scum and craft an answer when it’s totally not necessary.
His mixed feelings from Nacho pushing him are normal.
His vote on me seems to come out of nowhere, but when he explains it, he’s voting me for what town always mislynch me for when I get mislynched: my posts feel weird.
Verdict: town
Lastwhisper:
He starts his own sidegame instead of playing the game at first, and then calls Nacho wolfy for his reaction to KCC, which I think was a very pure reaction. Nacho gets more flak for that though; too much to all come from scum.
He doesn’t like tom’s gimmick, but his reaction to it is better than Axelrod’s: he merely says he’s not a fan of the gimmick and that tom doesn’t give him town vibes. Ergo, he’s not calling the gimmick itself scummy, which is good.
His response to Vaimes where he uses the word “probably” talking about his tells not being AI bugs me bigtime. It looks like he jokingly wants to get rid of Vaimes’ push.
His reads in #163 don’t look like real reads. He doesn’t give a real read on both Vaimes and Silver and waffles on Nacho. The only thing there is a townread on KJ.
A lot of scum!pings there, but his later posts are suddenly way better. I like how he questions Silver’s Rhand vote and how he starts real worldbuilding and pressuring Vezok.
Verdict: lean town (if he’s scum he won’t keep up his new posting)
Shadow:
Not enough posts for a read. Null.
I can read him very well though if he actually posts.
Vaimes:
He is in jokey spam-mode, which is a good sign. He knows his own meta though, and I’ve seen him make a whole town believe he’s town before.
There are a few things that trouble me: He voted Nacho, who was low hanging fruit at that point. He claims the existence of a neutral. And the things he’s accusing LW of are dependent of the alignment of the ones LW is interacting with.
I do like that he goes from Nacho to Axel now.
Verdict: Not sure. I’m going to classify him as null for now and will see where he goes with his Axel vote.
@Vaimes: talk more about Axel please. And what is your LW read right now?
KCC:
Claiming a scummy role from the get-go is the townie thing to do. Scum doesn’t like locking themselves into a claim from the start. I know a few players that do things like that, but KCC doesn’t strike me as one of those, unless she is consciously changing up her game. Which is totally unnecessary because she hasn’t played that many games recently that we all know her meta.
I like her Nacho reaction and have a total mindmeld with her question to Vaimes in #200
Verdict: town
Vezok:
Again a Nacho voter. The fact that she says he agrees with Vaimes on Nacho probably means that she isn’t scum with Vaimes. Saying later on that Nacho is scum because her posts don’t make sense points to a scummy mindset: not making sense is not a scumtell but something scum looks for when trying to get town lynched (I know that all too well). Also not a fan of the randomness of people she gives reads on.
Her vote on Mind is weak and using omgus as extra confidence is again a scummy mindset: omgus in itself is never a tell but often used by scum during fake hunting.
There’s a possible link with Fulcrum because of the way she defends her.
Verdict: scum
@Vezok: you said you gave a (non)read on LW because of the recent scumgame with him. I was also scum there. Why not give a read on me there?
Dkings:
No posts. Null.
Mindreaver:
I like his self-meta because it’s true. And if he does this as scum after a hiatus, that would be extremely dumb because now he has to keep up his energy level.
I mindmeld with him about Nacho and Vezok.
Verdict: town
Axelrod:
The fact that he chose a semi-serious RVS target is bothersome. What is worse is that he uses KCC’s later posts to strengthen that vote. And then he calls tom’s gimmick in itself scummy.
Verdict: scum
KillJoy:
He’s very easy to read as town, and this is town!him.
I wonder if he can mimick his towngame as scum. I haven’t seen him as scum in a loooong time. But I doubt he can. His towngame is extremely pure.
Verdict: town
Tom:
He is throwing out reads all the time, and with the songs he has to really think about them. All his reads are pretty much fleshed out. I know tom is capable of a lot as scum, but this would be too amazing to be true. I’m convinced this is town!tom.
He reminds me of that game where used animal behavior to talk about all of us, which also gave deep insight.
Verdict: town
Slothful:
Some of his questions feel like stating the obvious, but others seem like he’s trying to figure out the game. Not enough there for a read.
Verdict: null
Gemma:
Not a lot of explanation in her posts, but I liked all the votes she cast when she cast them (apart from the brief tom vote).
When she does post longer sentences, I tend to mindmeld with her (Vezok, the tom gimmick).
Verdict: town
Nacho:
I think the reaction she gave to KCC could come from either alignment, with a bigger chance of coming from town. Scum demanding claims on page 1 is pretty darn dumb, and Nacho isn’t dumb.
I like where her vote is right now.
I don’t like the mindreaver vote and the continued KCC pressure.
Verdict: lean town
Fulcrum:
Her first post feels like she distances herself from town a bit with how she talks about tom. Probably NAI though because she hasn’t been active on the site for a while.
I like how she wants Nacho to stop about KCC, which is indeed a needless distraction in thread by now.
Not much more there yet. I’ll need more to form a read.
Verdict: null
Asta:
Nothing really there. It bothers me that she did read the game when she posted #293 and didn’t comment on anything apart from answering a question directed at her.
Can be newb scum that doesn’t really know how to play scum.
Verdict: lean scum
Town
Silver
KCC
Mindreaver
KJ
Tom
Gemma
Lean town
LW
Nacho
Null
Shadow
Vaimes
Dkings
Slothful
fulcrum
Lean scum
Asta
Scum
Vezok
Axelrod
There almost has to be scum in the non-posters. Unless I’m wrong about one of my townclears, but this looks like a good base to start off with.