Killjoy, vca is useful for narrowing down scum, but I'm not going to trust mylo to it, man.
Last, that post is literally two months old, I don't remember what I was thinking beyond disliking his read of Vaimes. I'll look over it again in a few hours, ok?
thats fair
if Killjoy is a wolf here, he is playing for tomorrow's lylo, by pushing pressuring me
but in all honesty, I can't really tell what alignment the words from his mouth are coming from anymore
if the wolf team is proph/silver
he is definitely not making it easier to see that by not helping me read either of them, or you
like both you and silver attacked Rhand, one of you was bussing, so I think it should all be naught in terms of AI at this point
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Last, do you think that after pressuring Rhand all day, scum Silver just goes "yeah let's CFD dkings over KCC" at the tail end of Day 1?
And that's my point. I feel like if Silver and Rhand were buddies, they would spend more effort into making their distancing seem more like distancing. The fact that Silver was scumreading Rhand because Rhand was townreading him is a /really/ strange angle to take if they're scum together.
Also was busier than expected yesterday, should be able to sink some time into this game this evening
Notice here how Proph ignored my counter to his case, because he doesn't want to acknowledge anything that looks bad for Silver, and tried to get Last to focus on one small piece his towncase on Silver that I /already/ debunked. This is because Proph and Silver are scum and Last is town. Ta ******* da.
@Fulcrum
I mean you have me, like Killjoy is the only reason I havent already voted you, since I still dont believe he is a wolf, and I cant find another team with you
just wish Killjoy would be useful
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Proph should be our default lynch. His catchup took forever, his responses afterwards were stale, tom had him as a main suspect and died, and he still hasn't ******* talked about me/Vaimes (which should be a super easy thing for him to jot down, unless he's overthinking it as scum). Be town Proph, or bus if you're scum, please.
for reference, this is why you voted Proph
and its idk, its like pretty bad? tom had him as a main suspect and died
like y'all could've removed this from this post, and it probably wouldn't be as bad, but like NKA this early to push a case, just doesn't come off as pure
and who are you to decide what is easy or not?
Alright, I've finally caught up (note to self: never catch up in a 2.8k game again), this is roughly where I am at the moment:
Gemma
Prophylaxis r. Jackrito r. shadowlancerx
vezokpiraka
Grapefruit r. Slothful
Killjoy
Silvercrys3467
Lastwhisper
Nachomamma8
KittyCupCake
Axelrod
Rhand
Keldeo r. Mindreaver
Asta
fulcrum
tomsloger
Vaimes
dkingsland967
vezok: Claimed mason etc.
Grape: He was initially in my null/scumreads but I see he's claimed to be the other mason, which is great. I enjoy playing with town Grape.
Killjoy: Probably my strongest behavioral townread at the moment, mainly due to his early and mid-game play. Basically, I think he's trying to apply lessons learned from previous games in this one and I think he's doing a fantastic job of it. He had some good questions in post 92 and I liked the discourse between him and Gemma early game and midgame:
Quote from Killjoy »
Gemma: TBH, all this push for readslists doesn't look specifically town to me. The townie version of this is you're trying to fill holes in peoples reads to gauge consistency/inconsistency but then you'd probably just be asking specific people specific questions instead of doing it this way. KCC mentioned that she, as scum, used people's reads to gauge who to mislynch. Or maybe you're doing the opposite, seeing where your buddies fall on them... but my point in general is you're doing what you're doing in the least town way possible.
This doesn't feel at all like how scum!KJ would treat a fairly competent and active town player here. Feels more likely that he would just shoo Gemma by the wayside and kind of let her do her thing if he was scum, rather than treat her awkwardly like this.
Liked his posts 788 and 954, these posts show a lot of transparency WRT thought process (specifically the part where he talks about Mindreaver's Hulk Hogan bravado and he compares Mind's behavior to himself).
Silvercrys: Haven't played with Silver in a while, so I am not sure what advancements he has made to his meta (Silver: Do you have a completed scum game thus far?). His 45 initially pinged me a little bit - the "Mrgle" felt a little fake and it felt like scum trying to push out of RVS awkwardly (Nacho's 62 explained why I didn't like Silver's post 45 far more intelligently than I can). This initially prickled me but I liked his engagement with Nacho coming out of RVS (Nacho/Silver also probably not aligned). I agreed with him on what he said about the Mindreaver posts and I liked his play in the middle of Day 1; he was kind of complaining about "THERE'S NOTHING TO DO!" but I appreciated the quote chain of replies and the Axel ISO. His Axel ISO feels like he doesn't know Axel's alignment; there's a type of nuance and wishy-washiness in that post that I think is quite difficult to fake if he's scum here.
Lastwhisper: He's definitely acting like his usual self, and it's a little different reading him on a site like this where he's not a big fish in a small pond like his home site and more of an average player. Would like to sync up with him at some point because that's how we won a game over the summer. I liked where he was at on page 5 because his reads largely tracked with me at the time. I think Last is town because I've played with him a couple of times as town and just modded a game where he played scum. In that game, I felt like Last was less interested in solving and more interested in using his posting style as a way to throw people off in that people would never really bother to reread his posts until endgame because his style is kind of unlike the usual MTGS fare. In this game he's a lot more focused on trying to get people to interact with him and I think he's also poking in a lot of places I wouldn't expect scum!Last to poke. Think that his beef with Vaimes is kind of NAI but my gut tells me that he wouldn't make a huge show of it if he was mafia. Kind of want to interact with him more (and I'm sure I'll get the chance to) to really iron out this read but I think he's a good guy here (and I want him to be town tbh).
Nachomamma8: Yet another player I haven't played with in quite a while (last time must have been Gemma's 2666 Mafia, right?) - First off, I liked his play on page 2. Stirring stuff up then evaluating reactions to it while being semi-transparent doing so gets the thumbs up from me. I might be a sucker for posts that very clearly explain the player's thought process and reasoning for what they do, but I really like Nacho's 240 and how he was playing in general? His play early game still makes a fair amount of sense to me and he's still trying to solve here. He then kind of disappears in the middle of Day 1 (I assume due to Black Friday shenanigans and working retail etc). Specifically what I liked in his catchup post is him making a good point about dk's sterilness. Liked Nacho's approach in 1400 with regards to KCC, specifically the "you need to give me something here" quote. His post 1404 is also good wrt dkings.
Then I got to the part where Nacho fake-CCs KCC. What is the mafia motivation for scum!Nacho to CC here? I could be not thinking through things deeply enough, but if Nacho is scum and KCC is town, my guess is that he would have probably continued to push KCC and not risk drawing attention to himself by CCing, knowing that if he keeps making solid posts he probably wouldn't be suspected or lynched for a couple more Days at least. Him CCing then retracting the CC.. makes more sense to me from town!Nacho, because (to be honest) KCC's posts were pretty lackluster up until she got run up, then she started to send more clear townie signals (like the reads list and how she claimed her role). I can.. sort of understand town Nacho being like "ok, I'm doubting my own read on KCC after those past few posts, let me retract this CC".
It's like a super ballsy play if he's scum here and I don't think that he would risk it in a playerbase like this, where generally being reasonable and active can get you to endgame. I don't know Nacho extremely well and it's possible he snows me like this but I don't thiiiiiink he's mafia?
KittyCupCake: My read on her is sort of related to my read on Nacho. The very first thing I noted when I began to read the thread was looking at her post 5. My read on that post is weak, but I doooon't think this is an angle she takes as scum?
Granted, I don't have a lot of experience with scum!KCC, but I recall most of her scum victories were games where she won in an overwhelming fashion, playing super clean and not being heavily suspected. (Thinking about The Wall Mafia where she avoided nearly all suspicion). Now, that game was four years ago, but I don't think scum!KCC says this and then makes the mess of a claim she made at late EoD1. I think scum!KCC is a lot more cunning and would just play.. differently than this if she was mafia. Also Rhand's 309 tracks with what i was saying about KCC's post 5, which is good for him.
Just been thinking about KCC's role and.. not super inclined to think it's a hit. Can see worlds where town KCC looks at her role and claims early "my role is super scummy" but the scum counterpart to that is like, she doesn't claim early, then she obscures parts of her claim and makes it /sound/ town-like? Just kind of lacking in self awareness here. KCC's more convoluted ability IMO has to be a true part of her claim since I doubt that she would ever make that up as mafia. Like KCC's reads list; feels like it's from a townie about to die rather than scum clamming up (esp the stuff she says to Gemma about retaining her snarkiness in the spec chat; that's kiind of the roundabout thing that is natural for townies to think about but scum struggle to emulate).
Also, kind of unrelated, but I gifted an orb to Axel last Night in order to confirm the busdrive and it swapped over to Nacho, so we know that KCC is telling the truth here about the busdrive. So yeah, probably town.
Axelrod: My read on Axelrod was kind of all over the place when I was reading. Originally I found his posts early game to be quite underwhelming, and I said that I wanted pressure on Slothful/Axel because they both weren't really Doing Anything. Axel early game was mostly nitpicking at his own various issues, which didn't really give me a great sense of his alignment. Also wasn't a fan of his case on Mindreaver because it felt like he was trying to pick on low hanging fruit. I recall both scumreading Axel and Vaimes at one point but then backing off on that because I don't think the both of them are aligned. Then I saw the watcher claim, which is fine in my books. I like his Day 2 play a lot more than his Day 1 play; his going over reasoning why people were voting him reads as solvey and not agenda-driven. Coupled with the Watcher claim I'm willing to reverse my stance on him early game and I like him as town. Do think that if there any deep scum then he is worth re-examining because watcher claim isn't end-all be-all and his early game stuff kind of tripped me up a bit, but I've appreciated his analysis of his wagonees Today.
Rhand: Yet another person that I keep going back and forth on. I wasn't the biggest fan of his early game because he wasn't doing a whole lot, but I liked his early reads list because he dived into his thought process quite a bit (and tbh, it was helpful to someone like me who was catching up). His 309 I liked quite a bit because he thought the same thing as me WRT KCC. Another post I liked from him was post 770 since it's a pretty candid look at his mindset and why he is playing the way he is playing. Then the thing that I'm still kind of struggling with is how he voted KJ and was convinced he was scum; I disagree with that heavily because KJ is literally my top behavioral town read right now, and that made me scumread him when I was reading the thread. However, now that I think about it more, I don't think scum!Rhand willingly impales himself on a spear to lynch town!KJ if he is indeed scum. I agree with him WRT Vaimes being scum. So yeah, there's a couple of stuff that makes me think that he's town, but I'd like to engage with him more and get a better feeling on where he's at.
Keldeo: Keldeo I want to more of a deep dive on, because I thought Mindreaver displayed some decent townie tonal tells. WRT the Mindreaver slot, I liked his 280 for a catchup post and I sort of liked his 297, in particular the "will anyone talk to me" jam? Seems natural for a townie to has just caught up, to have someone want to engage with them on their readwall. Here's the thing that I was basing most of my Mind townread on, and I'm aware it's pretty weak in isolation:
Quote from Mindreaver »
Here is what's up for all you people for whom my disconnected posts are some reason to think I'm an easy mislynch. I'm not. I'm coming for you. And it's the biggest mistake you've made this game. I'm channeling my inner Sir Chris a bit ( an undeserved omage, I'm not half the player he is) but come at me, you've had me at a disadvantage where I was catch up posting in places to try and participate quickly, and come tomorrow that ***** is over, no more jetlag, hotel beds, and time zone switches, no more 10 hour days and team building at night, so yeah I'll be reading all 15 pages you guys write overnight and then I'll be so legit, you'll wish you rolled town with me. But if you're gonna bring that weak ass ***** where I somehow put a gif in the middle of some other irrelevant bull***** on day 4 of a three week day, and that's the best you got... buckle up mofos.
This is something that I don't think scum!Mindreaver posts? It feels like over the top bravado but it's bravado in a way where I think that scum Mindreaver would think twice about posting it and then decide not to.
WRT Keldeo specifically, I'd like to do a full ISO of him soonish when finals are over. I recall liking his first post, reinforces my read on the Mind slot quite a bit. Think they're displaying a lot of nuance in their catchup which I am a fan of.
Asta: His posts kind of seem to be On the Face to be newb scum? I would expect newb scum generally to lurk and be somewhat disengaged with the thread, and Asta is kind of enthusiastic and people with more experience than him than me tell me that this is his town self, so I guess he's okay in my book? Asta seems to be lacking in self awareness to be noob scum, possibly? 935 is a pretty nice post that explains their thought process.
I'm not really convinced that his double vote is a reason to townread him because we have masons in the game, but he seems behaviorally fine for me.
------
My reads thus far are more negative space reads where I have reasons for liking everyone else, so these people are kind of left by the wayside as my scumreads.
fulcrum: Simply put, I suck at reading her and I know her scum game is fairly solid, but she hasn't really done anything that is out of her range or screams villager to me. Think she's been playing very curt and somewhat guarded for most of the game which is naturally difficult to read. One of the posts I couldn't really understand even reading through it a bunch of times was her 337; I believe it was a decent look at her thought process but I was literally reading that entire paragraph like 2-3 times though and it made my eyes glaze over.
I'm not really sure what to make of her CC attempt other than the fact that I think what she claimed and Axel's role can coexist.
I dunno; I think I would like to do a full ISO of her at some point (and I'll probably get around to doing so) but I can just point to everyone else and tell you a reason why I think they're town. I see some like, minor town tells for fulcrum, but I can't build that towncase like I can for others. Maybe it's just because I've historically been Not Great at reading her, but that's where I'm at at this point.
tomsloger: To be frank I ignored most of his posts because I was catching up and don't have time to play interpreter to his gimmicks. I see that he's posted a LOT more and is no longer doing the song lyrics thing, so I will do my best to divine his alignment when I have some more free time. Other than that, negative space etc.
Now for the two people I am actually interested in seeing get the noose today: Vaimes and dkings..
Vaimes: Generally when Vaimes is town, he makes it pretty obvious, and I am not seeing the energy/tonal townie tells I am fairly used to seeing from him. When I was doing my read-through I thought that it was a lock that one of Axelrod or Vaimes was mafia and I now think that Axel is town, so yeah. Just wasn't a huge fan of his Nacho pressure in the early game when there was a fair amount else also going on and he just chose to latch onto Nacho. Then he hopped onto the Axel wagon and then hopped to the dk wagon for a little bit, then moved back onto Axelrod. The common trend with all of these votes is that he's mostly just following/bandwagoning other people rather than pursuing things really for himself, and also not the biggest fan of him voting Mindreaver when he was defending him. I understand his stated reasoning (929) but I feel like town Vaimes would dig in a little bit and avoid lynching people he's townreading as opposed to limp noodle voting him just because everyone else is and the game was stagnating around Mind. He was just latching onto Axel for most of Day 1 which makes me think he's a bad guy?
Not a whole lot to say about his claim - think he's probably trueclaiming as either alignment about being an inventor, and I think that worlds where he trades with vezok in order to get some town cred exist.
Vaimes, why do you think Nacho is mafia? Is it purely because of the chaos he started at EoD1? What do you think about the points I raise?
dkings: My issue with dkings is that he hasn't really done anything notable this game as opposed to Modern, where he was very quickly townread and got to be such a huge problem for the scum that scum!tom had to kill him in plain daylight. People have noted that his posts are sterile, and I agree with them. In this game, he started the wagon on vezok, After vezok claimed mason, he kind of floundered for most of Day 1. My issue with him is that, even though he states that he's having trouble engaging with the game, he's not really going through the effort of talking with his scumreads in order to get better reads on them. He's mostly playing passively with regards to them, stating they are mafia without directly questioning them or interrogating them. He hasn't really directly questioned KCC (his main scum read Yesterday) and he seems more content to quiz Vaimes on how his role works, and he hasn't really pressured fulcrum at all despite having her as someone he "wouldn't mind to see die Today".
dkings, why are you not directly questioning/grilling your scum suspects? Why are you content to treat them at arm's length rather than showing everyone why you think X or Y is mafia?
what exactly is bad about this? I make reads like that all the time, especially given that Proph likes to be sure of his thoughts?
Ok, 1. Proph not responding to me about Vaimes after being asked multiple times and just continuously putting it off was weird and scummy, and even if he's somehow town I stick by that.
2. The post itself is not a good catchup post. In retrospect, him pushing dk was good, but it's weird that he knew Vezok and Grapefruit were town and had Killjoy as his strongest town, but didn't think dk was cleared like everyone else, feels like tmi. His only problem with dk was that he wasn't talking to his scumreads, too, and that's something dk could have fixed pretty easily, I think. A lot of the post was just promises to follow through on things "when I have some more free time," ("Would like to sync up with him at some point because that's how we won a game over the summer." about Last, "WRT Keldeo specifically, I'd like to do a full ISO of him soonish when finals are over," and "I think I would like to do a full ISO of her at some point," about me) which he didn't really follow up on. There's a lot of waffling ("Haven't played with Silver in a while, so I am not sure what advancements he has made to his meta", "I might be a sucker for posts that very clearly explain the player's thought process and reasoning for what they do, but I really like Nacho's 240 and how he was playing in general?" about Nacho, " My read on Axelrod was kind of all over the place when I was reading," "Yet another person that I keep going back and forth on" about Rhand, and "Simply put, I suck at reading her and I know her scum game is fairly solid, but she hasn't really done anything that is out of her range or screams villager to me," about me.) It's not that weird of anything, but I'd think that after he just caught up on the whole game he'd be a little more certain of things and not needing so many immediate refreshes on people.
His read on Rhand is bad, obviously:
Rhand: Yet another person that I keep going back and forth on. I wasn't the biggest fan of his early game because he wasn't doing a whole lot, but I liked his early reads list because he dived into his thought process quite a bit (and tbh, it was helpful to someone like me who was catching up). His 309 I liked quite a bit because he thought the same thing as me WRT KCC. Another post I liked from him was post 770 since it's a pretty candid look at his mindset and why he is playing the way he is playing. Then the thing that I'm still kind of struggling with is how he voted KJ and was convinced he was scum; I disagree with that heavily because KJ is literally my top behavioral town read right now, and that made me scumread him when I was reading the thread. However, now that I think about it more, I don't think scum!Rhand willingly impales himself on a spear to lynch town!KJ if he is indeed scum. I agree with him WRT Vaimes being scum. So yeah, there's a couple of stuff that makes me think that he's town, but I'd like to engage with him more and get a better feeling on where he's at.
Lot of arguments for Rhand being town, but also waffling in. And he leaves a space for him and Rhand to go after Vaimes instead of Dk, conveniently ignoring my townread of Vaimes (which, yes, Last, he should have been taking into account).
Overall, it's not terrible, I just expected better for his first big post in the game.
Last, do you think that after pressuring Rhand all day, scum Silver just goes "yeah let's CFD dkings over KCC" at the tail end of Day 1?
And that's my point. I feel like if Silver and Rhand were buddies, they would spend more effort into making their distancing seem more like distancing. The fact that Silver was scumreading Rhand because Rhand was townreading him is a /really/ strange angle to take if they're scum together.
Also was busier than expected yesterday, should be able to sink some time into this game this evening
Notice here how Proph ignored my counter to his case, because he doesn't want to acknowledge anything that looks bad for Silver, and tried to get Last to focus on one small piece his towncase on Silver that I /already/ debunked. This is because Proph and Silver are scum and Last is town. Ta ******* da.
I just dont get why you get that benefit? and like that train wasnt even the tail end of the day phase... I mean I guess? 4 days left of a 3-week day phase? but so much can happen at day 3, it doesnt even matter
Because no mafia plays like him, come on man. He ******* oscillates between reads with every new post, what kind of mafia does that? And Silver is voting me, and Proph is desperately trying to get Last on their side. If either of them are town the game's already lost anyway, it doesn't matter.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
also, Fulcrum highlighted a post from either DK or Rhand? I think it was DK
Where he stated, that he was ignoring the slap fight between me and kcc at the time
That makes neither of us wolves, and like I said before I am sad that I didnt notice that when were piledriving KCC
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
there is no way Killjoy is a wolf even if Fulcrum is, I just don't believe he is talking to his partner right now
but like where is the other wolf then
@fulcrum: I mean, Last oscillates between reads as a personality trait, not an alignment one. He's impulsive.
Does he have no agenda as mafia?
He absolutely has an agenda as mafia. You don't think he has an agenda here? Is it because of the 1100 posts?
Did you read my votal post and how it relates to Last?
Also yes I read your post on Proph. Proph could be scum, I just don't think that Silver is.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@fulcrum: I mean, Last oscillates between reads as a personality trait, not an alignment one. He's impulsive.
Does he have no agenda as mafia?
He absolutely has an agenda as mafia. You don't think he has an agenda here? Is it because of the 1100 posts?
Did you read my votal post and how it relates to Last?
Also yes I read your post on Proph. Proph could be scum, I just don't think that Silver is.
I don't care about the votals. I just don't. They're useful for pattern recognition, but you're weighing them over behavior
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@fulcrum: I mean, Last oscillates between reads as a personality trait, not an alignment one. He's impulsive.
Does he have no agenda as mafia?
He absolutely has an agenda as mafia. You don't think he has an agenda here? Is it because of the 1100 posts?
Did you read my votal post and how it relates to Last?
Also yes I read your post on Proph. Proph could be scum, I just don't think that Silver is.
I don't care about the votals. I just don't. They're useful for pattern recognition, but you're weighing them over behavior
I'm really not. I'm saying the votals show intent, and therefore behavior.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
just breathe, please
I am completely ignoring your emotional posts at this point, I don't want it to muddie my read
not that I am saying you are doing it on purpose, because i aint
please don't take offense to this
@proph
you really need to convince me to vote Fulcrum here... because like I am just not seeing the Fulcrum/Killjoy team
Can you explain to me why you don't think fulcrum and KJ are scum?
I'll do my best to convince you, but you have to understand that from my POV it's mostly PoE.
I'm town. I think you're town. I just did a whole dissertation on why I don't think Silver is scum. Asta is only ever on a team with Silver and I don't think that they go hard in the paint on dkings early on Day 1.
I'll look at the interactions again but I don't think I'm wavering on KJ/fulcrum.
@proph
you really need to convince me to vote Fulcrum here... because like I am just not seeing the Fulcrum/Killjoy team
Can you explain to me why you don't think fulcrum and KJ are scum?
I'll do my best to convince you, but you have to understand that from my POV it's mostly PoE.
I'm town. I think you're town. I just did a whole dissertation on why I don't think Silver is scum. Asta is only ever on a team with Silver and I don't think that they go hard in the paint on dkings early on Day 1.
I'll look at the interactions again but I don't think I'm wavering on KJ/fulcrum.
I mean I know from your PoV they are mostly like to be a wolf
but I just don't see it, like the subtleties coming from Fulcrum/Killjoy don't feel like a wolf, and even more so not with each other
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@proph
you really need to convince me to vote Fulcrum here... because like I am just not seeing the Fulcrum/Killjoy team
Can you explain to me why you don't think fulcrum and KJ are scum?
I'll do my best to convince you, but you have to understand that from my POV it's mostly PoE.
I'm town. I think you're town. I just did a whole dissertation on why I don't think Silver is scum. Asta is only ever on a team with Silver and I don't think that they go hard in the paint on dkings early on Day 1.
I'll look at the interactions again but I don't think I'm wavering on KJ/fulcrum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't think Killjoy is pushing me to be malicious, my gut tells me he just believes this
and the way he is talking to Fulcrum just doesn't feel like two wolves talking
and Fulcrum doesnt really work with anyone else, and thats the problem
if Killjoy is a wolf here, he is playing for tomorrow's lylo, by pushing pressuring me
but in all honesty, I can't really tell what alignment the words from his mouth are coming from anymore
if the wolf team is proph/silver
he is definitely not making it easier to see that by not helping me read either of them, or you
like both you and silver attacked Rhand, one of you was bussing, so I think it should all be naught in terms of AI at this point
The Current Season is Summer.
With 6 Alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Notice here how Proph ignored my counter to his case, because he doesn't want to acknowledge anything that looks bad for Silver, and tried to get Last to focus on one small piece his towncase on Silver that I /already/ debunked. This is because Proph and Silver are scum and Last is town. Ta ******* da.
I mean you have me, like Killjoy is the only reason I havent already voted you, since I still dont believe he is a wolf, and I cant find another team with you
just wish Killjoy would be useful
lmao...
is this game even worth it anymore
Ok, 1. Proph not responding to me about Vaimes after being asked multiple times and just continuously putting it off was weird and scummy, and even if he's somehow town I stick by that.
2. The post itself is not a good catchup post. In retrospect, him pushing dk was good, but it's weird that he knew Vezok and Grapefruit were town and had Killjoy as his strongest town, but didn't think dk was cleared like everyone else, feels like tmi. His only problem with dk was that he wasn't talking to his scumreads, too, and that's something dk could have fixed pretty easily, I think. A lot of the post was just promises to follow through on things "when I have some more free time," ("Would like to sync up with him at some point because that's how we won a game over the summer." about Last, "WRT Keldeo specifically, I'd like to do a full ISO of him soonish when finals are over," and "I think I would like to do a full ISO of her at some point," about me) which he didn't really follow up on. There's a lot of waffling ("Haven't played with Silver in a while, so I am not sure what advancements he has made to his meta", "I might be a sucker for posts that very clearly explain the player's thought process and reasoning for what they do, but I really like Nacho's 240 and how he was playing in general?" about Nacho, " My read on Axelrod was kind of all over the place when I was reading," "Yet another person that I keep going back and forth on" about Rhand, and "Simply put, I suck at reading her and I know her scum game is fairly solid, but she hasn't really done anything that is out of her range or screams villager to me," about me.) It's not that weird of anything, but I'd think that after he just caught up on the whole game he'd be a little more certain of things and not needing so many immediate refreshes on people.
His read on Rhand is bad, obviously:
Lot of arguments for Rhand being town, but also waffling in. And he leaves a space for him and Rhand to go after Vaimes instead of Dk, conveniently ignoring my townread of Vaimes (which, yes, Last, he should have been taking into account).
Overall, it's not terrible, I just expected better for his first big post in the game.
and the wagons were just 3/3/3 garbage
Because no mafia plays like him, come on man. He ******* oscillates between reads with every new post, what kind of mafia does that? And Silver is voting me, and Proph is desperately trying to get Last on their side. If either of them are town the game's already lost anyway, it doesn't matter.
Where he stated, that he was ignoring the slap fight between me and kcc at the time
That makes neither of us wolves, and like I said before I am sad that I didnt notice that when were piledriving KCC
lets face it, if you are town, this game is over
but like where is the other wolf then
Why? Why is Silver not scum, man? Did you read my assessment of Proph's case?
Last, I'm tryimg really hard here to not snap at you, and this isn't helping.
Does he have no agenda as mafia?
Did you read my votal post and how it relates to Last?
Also yes I read your post on Proph. Proph could be scum, I just don't think that Silver is.
my agenda is understanding
but like he is only a wolf with Silver... or Fulcrum who he is burying
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Curse Premiumthere is no way we lose to this vote, unless its Proph/Asta
you really need to convince me to vote Fulcrum here... because like I am just not seeing the Fulcrum/Killjoy team
I don't care about the votals. I just don't. They're useful for pattern recognition, but you're weighing them over behavior
I'm not voting last. You need to bend here.
I ******* cant
I am completely ignoring your emotional posts at this point, I don't want it to muddie my read
not that I am saying you are doing it on purpose, because i aint
please don't take offense to this
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Curse PremiumI'll do my best to convince you, but you have to understand that from my POV it's mostly PoE.
I'm town. I think you're town. I just did a whole dissertation on why I don't think Silver is scum. Asta is only ever on a team with Silver and I don't think that they go hard in the paint on dkings early on Day 1.
I'll look at the interactions again but I don't think I'm wavering on KJ/fulcrum.
but I just don't see it, like the subtleties coming from Fulcrum/Killjoy don't feel like a wolf, and even more so not with each other
@fulcrum: Have you actually looked at Last's ISO?
Oh bull. *****.
Like I have seen some evidence of notFulcrum but I've also seen some evidence of notProph but I kinda believe notFulcrum slightly more?
and the way he is talking to Fulcrum just doesn't feel like two wolves talking
and Fulcrum doesnt really work with anyone else, and thats the problem
Yes. Not recently. If I do it again and am still sure, is it even possible for you to change your mind?