From reactions so far, I'm again convinced Rodemy is town. He's like a natural mix between Tubba and LW. ZDS looks good here too.
GJ is weird. With what he just said, one would expect him to move his vote to me. Instead he keeps his vote with me. But he does seem to believe what he's saying.
— There are good chances the claim is partially false. If it isn't then the role sucks, especially the part where Rhand becomes a doctor after a scum lynch but with a 25% chance of majorly screwing over. On the other hand it would make some amount of sense for an SK (imagine: we hit scum toDay, both masons die toNight. Rhand: "I was trying to protect one of them!").
— The problem with the thought above is the timing of the claim. SK-Rhand could have shut the **** up and sailed away. Town-Rhand on the other hand can only be faulted for taking so long to reveal the gamble (and arguably for taking it in the first place). Scum-Rhand makes little sense with that claim, and even then he would have been fine waiting until he was under pressure or until Kplargca's own reveal or flip.
— If at least one of Vaimes or Kplargca is scum, it makes a lot of sense for them to keep Rhand alive. They can influence him in the cell chat and basically gain a second night kill. Flarg in particular may or could have had a strong influence (it's hard to tell without seeing their chat). In this scenario the scum plan would probably be to milk Rhand down to the last drop and endgame him (which is what I'm inclined to think is happening).
— Having said all this, I am aware I am clearing Rhand for WIFOMy reasons rather than his play. He fully deserves the negative reactions he's getting. Part of me can't help but wonder if his true gamble is not what happened with Flarg, but his claim right now, perhaps as some kind of trigger.
— In the end, as far as I'm concerned and as far as you should be concerned too, Vaimes&Flarg's scumminess >>>>>>>> Rhand's scumminess.
But, I feel disgust at how the words slip out of my mouth....[b] I agree with Rodemy.[b/] Why as a wolf would you do this? If the world is EXACTLY Rod/Vaimes/Rhand, I could see it actually. Rod being a wolf clears quite a few people, Vaimes is almost universally wolf read, and Flarg/Kpaca is.....well, whatever.
This whole situation is infuriating.
Anything resolving percentage chance is bastard level. Anything that resolves the same game playing different ways with the exact same levels of actions is bastard. What if Zionite was a wolf, but you misfired last night. There would be some really bad feels. Or if you shot wolfzion, but misfired on town grape.
LE GASP!
@rhand why claim now? Why not wait til flargs flip?
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From reactions so far, I'm again convinced Rodemy is town. He's like a natural mix between Tubba and LW. ZDS looks good here too.
GJ is weird. With what he just said, one would expect him to move his vote to me. Instead he keeps his vote with me. But he does seem to believe what he's saying.
I was really hoping you were a wolf or FPSing as a vanilla to draw the nk. Due to your lack of what I thought was legit hunting, I assumed the former.
*sigh* remember when I said you were just wrong? Yeah
maybe, he is still alive and not flipped, and I can't understand why he did what he did
which is why I asked him. But scum never CC the lynch at this point. Like. It wouldn’t make sense.Scum!rhand could shut his mouth and wait for flarg to just get lynched.
Flarg flips not!vig, then we have no idea what to do from there. If scum!rhand claims vig and flarg flips vig, he dies toMorrow.
however, rhand kind of signed his death warrant with this. I still don’t know why he claimed now instead of toMorrow.
Rhand needs to answer that unvote
Before we lynch flapaca
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From reactions so far, I'm again convinced Rodemy is town. He's like a natural mix between Tubba and LW. ZDS looks good here too.
GJ is weird. With what he just said, one would expect him to move his vote to me. Instead he keeps his vote with me. But he does seem to believe what he's saying.
I was really hoping you were a wolf or FPSing as a vanilla to draw the nk. Due to your lack of what I thought was legit hunting, I assumed the former.
Rhand, what's your team currently?
what is YOUR team?
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From reactions so far, I'm again convinced Rodemy is town. He's like a natural mix between Tubba and LW. ZDS looks good here too.
GJ is weird. With what he just said, one would expect him to move his vote to me. Instead he keeps his vote with me. But he does seem to believe what he's saying.
I was really hoping you were a wolf or FPSing as a vanilla to draw the nk. Due to your lack of what I thought was legit hunting, I assumed the former.
From reactions so far, I'm again convinced Rodemy is town. He's like a natural mix between Tubba and LW. ZDS looks good here too.
GJ is weird. With what he just said, one would expect him to move his vote to me. Instead he keeps his vote with me. But he does seem to believe what he's saying.
I was really hoping you were a wolf or FPSing as a vanilla to draw the nk. Due to your lack of what I thought was legit hunting, I assumed the former.
Rhand, what's your team currently?
what is YOUR team?
what's your team?
Flarg
Gj
Vaimes
Ywf is 4 if that’s a thing
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So Rhand, explain it like I'm five. Why can't Flarg be town here, and just decided to join you on this gambit adventure? I see why you think he is a wolf, but I don't get it.
ZDS is mindmelding me so hard for the last few days, that if he is a wolf, I am never winning this game.
So Rhand, explain it like I'm five. Why can't Flarg be town here, and just decided to join you on this gambit adventure? I see why you think he is a wolf, but I don't get it.
ZDS is mindmelding me so hard for the last few days, that if he is a wolf, I am never winning this game.
wait you aren’t 5? My attraction to you just went down.
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My current reads, but I'm still regrouping my thoughts:
Town
C. Lastwhisper
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake/Rodemy
D. Jackrito
A. YWFMLF
A. Tomsloger
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
B. Gentleman Johnny
E. Vaimes
E. FlargBlarg/Kpaca
scum
I need to check in the chat if the conversations between Flarg and Vaimes were at all natural. I never considered both of them being scum. Heck at first I thought they were both town.
What makes sense though is that they both missed my obvious PR softing. If they're both mafia, then chances are that that never came up in mafia chat. It weirded me out at the time.
I made a separate category of tom / GJ / ZDS. They're my pool of people I can't decide on.
Tom closer to town now because I don't think he can be mafia if Rodemy is mafia because of the no lynch situation yesterDay and I don't think Rodemy is mafia.
GJ on the bottom because I was scumreading him, but he feels natural now with his reaction to my claim, so I'm less sure than I was.
I think everyone above tom is town. Rodemy more so than Jack and YMFMLF. The last two are old reads that I should reread. Rereading those two is not my highest priority now though. I first want to sort out Flarg/Vaimes.
@Rodemy: I claimed now because it dawned on me that I was probably wrong about Flarg being town, and I was likely giving cover to mafia.
Anyway, this is all irrelevant, I shot Grape. Cell can more-or-less confirm it, I never said "I'm gonna shoot Grape" but I got pretttttty close.
Can you guys move onto something useful now so I can get my motivation for playing back? I'm gonna go actually do the thing I promised and read back on some of the cases and see where I fall on that.
REally unimpressed with Rhand. Only post he looks like he is actively solving was that color broken post for Flarg against ZDS, and even that, I don't agree with that much. Also, the Zionite read disappeared out of nowhere.
Why vote ZDS over ZIonite?
Night chat again. Both my cellmates think Zio is town.
I went into the Night with a scumread on ZDS and then he comes in attacking one of my strongest townreads, so obvious choice there.
Flarg didn't claim in our chat, but we spent a lot of time comparing suspicions, and Grape came out on top, followed by GJ and ZDS.
So yeh, it does seem like he was using our chat to narrow down his target.
Not that I see how it matters with Sloth claiming to have been shot.
It bothers me like no tomorrow that tom is avoiding questions about KJ toDay.
@KCC: are you going to do that second part of the ZDS case?
@Sloth: I think I've answered all your questions before?
@LW: You do know I was already scumreading ZDS yesterDay, right? And KCC's scumread on him clearly built up overNight. The case on Flarg is not the reason why I think ZDS is scum. The reason I was breaking it apart was to show that it's a bad (and probably scum-motivated) case and a bad reason to run up Flarg.
No it didn't. I immediately concluded he was SK and at one point you accused me of looking for neutrals, remember?
[/font]
Yes but in the end you backed off, and without that claim you wouldn't have.
Your insistence to lynch a neutral still bugs me, but that's moot if Flarg flips scum.
Rhand talk to me about a townread of flarg so strong you actively attacked a case against him, tried to lynch zds for making the case, and gave flarg a claim that he happily used to deflect pressure, and didnt even question it til now
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Rhand, you can't be shocked at my wolf reading you when I can't even think of a worse way you could have played that role, short of hard claiming first post day 1.
Also v/la or not, why no push or shove on Zionite today?
1) Because you were very low on content compared to your postcount.
2) Because both Flarg and Vaimes townread him. I'm still iffy about him, but our chat made me not want to pursue that toDay.
That's a terrible reason. People ***** post. Are you going to tell me every one of KJ's post was content? The question you should be asking is the content that is coming out is town mindset or wolf mindset.
You do understand that your cellmates are not cleared, yes?
Yes I know. But Flarg’s carefree posts in cell chat + his claim now are enough for me. I don’t think he’s mafia and if he’s SK he’ll have to kill in the POE anyways after his vig claim.
The problem with your posts yesterDay is that there’s hardly anything there. You posted a lot but didn’t try at all to have any impact on the game.
No rhand, im not particularly interested in discussing the awkward ass week me and kj had.
Think his play here and in token was more similar to eachother than to any recent town games, but basically not even i am a good enough wolf to apply what i knew from an ongoing game here without sacrificing some game integrity, and i think i handled it as well as I could have.
This is not a reason to scumread me. Im sure there's plenty find them
Here’s one: that last sentence. That’s typical for your open wolf game.
@Rhand: I actually asked about this D1, I think? Were did the idea that they could be w/w come from? Did KJ move away from null at one point to you and how did that end up happening? what indication did you have that they were aligned, even?
This has been discussed before. I was looking at what alignment KJ / Zio could have if tom was mafia in that post.
KJ was always null for me. I hadn't seen his scum game for ages and had no idea what he would be capable of. I decided to go with the lynch because I need to be on the lynch wagon and tom made a very pure post that made me trust him and hence his read.
I regret that now, but what’s done is done.
Flarg didn't claim in our chat, but we spent a lot of time comparing suspicions, and Grape came out on top, followed by GJ and ZDS.
So yeh, it does seem like he was using our chat to narrow down his target.
Hm. @Rhand and @Vaimes, important:
How do you describe the progression of Grape being read as the scummiest by all 3 of you?
Did Flarg come out already scumreading him and then you all consolidated on that read? Did he have a Town/Null read on him at the start and over the course of the Night changed his mind and agreed that he was scummy?
Go back to the cell chat and read it carefully before answering please - both of you.
Flarg posted his POE: Grape / YWF / GJ / Sloth / tuba / KCC / ZDS.
I told him I had town reads on YWF, Sloth and KCC and I posted my POE (Grape, tom, GJ, Zio, LW, tuba, ZDS, Vaimes).
We talked about some other stuff next and then talked about who we would focus on next Day. Flarg said he didn’t know who to look at. I tell him GJ / ZDS, he reacts that he thinks ZDS will be readable when he posts but GJ might be a good check. But that tubba and Grape would be good too.
I agree.
That’s when Vaimes joins the chat. He says he disagrees with tubba / sloth being in Flarg’s POE.
He has zionite / sloth / tubba as top town and maybe tom.
Vaimes wants to look at GJ / Grape / KCC / ZDS / YWF, maybe Flarg.
We talked a bit longer about some specific reads, but this is the gist of the conversation.
So if you start from Flarg’s POE and substract who isn’t in mine / Vaimes’, then what you have left is Grape / GJ / ZDS.
Somewhere near the end of the conversation Flarg asked if there was a consensus on Grape, I guess that was his crumb.
@Rhand you said both your cellmates read Z as Town, was that the case from the start of Night?
Yes
Also, talk more about your KCC read and progression.
KCC is never a leader on the first Days of a bigger game as town. She is more in the background and becomes more frontline when she has things to look at.
I’ve had huge mindmelds with her this game. Our view on the gamestate is almost identical.
I’m convinced she’s town.
I know there's talk of Flarg being a SK, and that kinda makes me significantly less interested in the original case ZDS wrote up.
It's uh, pretty thorough though. Don't really see scum going from zero to a hundred like that, especially when ZDS wasn't ~significantly on anyone's radar.
No interest in lunching Sloth, tom, Zionite, Jack. Last and Rhand too but not as strong. I'm liking ZDS now that he's up and running, which I'll be honeset, I didn't expect to like him.
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake
E. FlargBlarg
Somehow this ended up being a PoE of one person from each cell, neat. I kinda wanna take Tubba off the list but I want to keep the ABCDE lineup.
Your POE in our cell chat was GJ / Grape / KCC / ZDS / YWF, maybe Flarg.
What made tubba go from your top town reads to your POE?
So Rhand, explain it like I'm five. Why can't Flarg be town here, and just decided to join you on this gambit adventure? I see why you think he is a wolf, but I don't get it.
ZDS is mindmelding me so hard for the last few days, that if he is a wolf, I am never winning this game.
I thought he was town joining me on the gambit adventure for a very long time. I remember thinking "nooo Flarg don't claim now, Sloth has already made clear it was a vig shot" but I didn't give it a second thought. Until now where I noticed that huge discrepancy in his Zionite read. There's just no way he naturally went from Zionite town to Zionite mafia the way he did.
Rhand talk to me about a townread of flarg so strong you actively attacked a case against him, tried to lynch zds for making the case, and gave flarg a claim that he happily used to deflect pressure, and didnt even question it til now
It's all about our N1 cell chat. He was so chatty and pure, that I just cleared him without looking back.
Which I now think was a mistake.
I have been doubting for a little while now. I sent him a message toDay and wanted to see his answer. I asked if we should keep up the charade, and I figured that his response to that would make clear what mindset he is in. But then he replaced out and there's no point anymore. That's when I ISO'd him and found the Zionite stuff.
I did not hand him a claim to deflect pressure, I asked him to claim my action to make sure everyone knows Grape wasn't the NK. That it deflected pressure was what I figured back then a nice added bonus because I was townreading him and scumreading ZDS.
Rhand, you can't be shocked at my wolf reading you when I can't even think of a worse way you could have played that role, short of hard claiming first post day 1.
I don't get it. Why is it such a bad way to play the role? Step in my shoes for this. I was townreading Flarg hard.
Rhand, you can't be shocked at my wolf reading you when I can't even think of a worse way you could have played that role, short of hard claiming first post day 1.
I don't get it. Why is it such a bad way to play the role? Step in my shoes for this. I was townreading Flarg hard.
Or, and hear me out on this one: You just don't hint or tell anyone about it and just attempt to be an apparent 50% chance vig, who gets a 25% boost if he is on a mislynch.
You instead drew attention. Like point blank, if I were a role, and a town RB was revealed, I would have just shot you dead. At the absolute bare minimum, I would issue a rolecop that they almost certainly have, given that they felt bold enough to go after sloth again. Or could perhaps scan you.
So Rhand, explain it like I'm five. Why can't Flarg be town here, and just decided to join you on this gambit adventure? I see why you think he is a wolf, but I don't get it.
ZDS is mindmelding me so hard for the last few days, that if he is a wolf, I am never winning this game.
wait you aren’t 5? My attraction to you just went down.
My current reads, but I'm still regrouping my thoughts:
Town
C. Lastwhisper
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake/Rodemy
D. Jackrito
A. YWFMLF
A. Tomsloger
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
B. Gentleman Johnny
E. Vaimes
E. FlargBlarg/Kpaca
scum
I need to check in the chat if the conversations between Flarg and Vaimes were at all natural. I never considered both of them being scum. Heck at first I thought they were both town.
What makes sense though is that they both missed my obvious PR softing.If they're both mafia, then chances are that that never came up in mafia chat. It weirded me out at the time.
I made a separate category of tom / GJ / ZDS. They're my pool of people I can't decide on.
Tom closer to town now because I don't think he can be mafia if Rodemy is mafia because of the no lynch situation yesterDay and I don't think Rodemy is mafia.
GJ on the bottom because I was scumreading him, but he feels natural now with his reaction to my claim, so I'm less sure than I was.
I think everyone above tom is town. Rodemy more so than Jack and YMFMLF. The last two are old reads that I should reread. Rereading those two is not my highest priority now though. I first want to sort out Flarg/Vaimes.
@Rodemy: I claimed now because it dawned on me that I was probably wrong about Flarg being town, and I was likely giving cover to mafia.
Did anyone miss the PR softing? It was practically PR harding. I’m finding it harder and harder to believe that you believe the things you are saying.
Rhand, you can't be shocked at my wolf reading you when I can't even think of a worse way you could have played that role, short of hard claiming first post day 1.
I don't get it. Why is it such a bad way to play the role? Step in my shoes for this. I was townreading Flarg hard.
This. This moment is why. Unless you have a townfirm this is why this is a bad way to play the role.
I kinda wanna vote you but that 5 year old joke makes me not wanna move off Rod out of prinicple
Rhand, you can't be shocked at my wolf reading you when I can't even think of a worse way you could have played that role, short of hard claiming first post day 1.
I don't get it. Why is it such a bad way to play the role? Step in my shoes for this. I was townreading Flarg hard.
This. This moment is why. Unless you have a townfirm this is why this is a bad way to play the role.
I kinda wanna vote you but that 5 year old joke makes me not wanna move off Rod out of prinicple
Oh hush it’s a joke
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GJ is weird. With what he just said, one would expect him to move his vote to me. Instead he keeps his vote with me. But he does seem to believe what he's saying.
scum!rhand has no reason to lie in this situation.
If flarg flips vig he is dead tomorrow. So that would be bad play. Good play would be not to say anything and let flarg die.
— There are good chances the claim is partially false. If it isn't then the role sucks, especially the part where Rhand becomes a doctor after a scum lynch but with a 25% chance of majorly screwing over. On the other hand it would make some amount of sense for an SK (imagine: we hit scum toDay, both masons die toNight. Rhand: "I was trying to protect one of them!").
— The problem with the thought above is the timing of the claim. SK-Rhand could have shut the **** up and sailed away. Town-Rhand on the other hand can only be faulted for taking so long to reveal the gamble (and arguably for taking it in the first place). Scum-Rhand makes little sense with that claim, and even then he would have been fine waiting until he was under pressure or until Kplargca's own reveal or flip.
— If at least one of Vaimes or Kplargca is scum, it makes a lot of sense for them to keep Rhand alive. They can influence him in the cell chat and basically gain a second night kill. Flarg in particular may or could have had a strong influence (it's hard to tell without seeing their chat). In this scenario the scum plan would probably be to milk Rhand down to the last drop and endgame him (which is what I'm inclined to think is happening).
— Having said all this, I am aware I am clearing Rhand for WIFOMy reasons rather than his play. He fully deserves the negative reactions he's getting. Part of me can't help but wonder if his true gamble is not what happened with Flarg, but his claim right now, perhaps as some kind of trigger.
— In the end, as far as I'm concerned and as far as you should be concerned too, Vaimes&Flarg's scumminess >>>>>>>> Rhand's scumminess.
No it didn't. I immediately concluded he was SK and at one point you accused me of looking for neutrals, remember?
LE GASP!
@rhand why claim now? Why not wait til flargs flip?
I was really hoping you were a wolf or FPSing as a vanilla to draw the nk. Due to your lack of what I thought was legit hunting, I assumed the former.
Rhand, what's your team currently?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
*sigh* remember when I said you were just wrong? Yeah
which is why I asked him. But scum never CC the lynch at this point. Like. It wouldn’t make sense.Scum!rhand could shut his mouth and wait for flarg to just get lynched.
Flarg flips not!vig, then we have no idea what to do from there. If scum!rhand claims vig and flarg flips vig, he dies toMorrow.
however, rhand kind of signed his death warrant with this. I still don’t know why he claimed now instead of toMorrow.
Rhand needs to answer that unvote
Before we lynch flapaca
what is YOUR team?
I think the correct play is to Lynch either Tom or kpaca
unvote:
Flarg
Gj
Vaimes
Ywf is 4 if that’s a thing
Is that why you mislynched me in Token on MC?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
ZDS is mindmelding me so hard for the last few days, that if he is a wolf, I am never winning this game.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
wait you aren’t 5? My attraction to you just went down.
Town
C. Lastwhisper
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake/Rodemy
D. Jackrito
A. YWFMLF
A. Tomsloger
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
B. Gentleman Johnny
E. Vaimes
E. FlargBlarg/Kpaca
scum
I need to check in the chat if the conversations between Flarg and Vaimes were at all natural. I never considered both of them being scum. Heck at first I thought they were both town.
What makes sense though is that they both missed my obvious PR softing. If they're both mafia, then chances are that that never came up in mafia chat. It weirded me out at the time.
I made a separate category of tom / GJ / ZDS. They're my pool of people I can't decide on.
Tom closer to town now because I don't think he can be mafia if Rodemy is mafia because of the no lynch situation yesterDay and I don't think Rodemy is mafia.
GJ on the bottom because I was scumreading him, but he feels natural now with his reaction to my claim, so I'm less sure than I was.
I think everyone above tom is town. Rodemy more so than Jack and YMFMLF. The last two are old reads that I should reread. Rereading those two is not my highest priority now though. I first want to sort out Flarg/Vaimes.
@Rodemy: I claimed now because it dawned on me that I was probably wrong about Flarg being town, and I was likely giving cover to mafia.
Yes but in the end you backed off, and without that claim you wouldn't have.
Your insistence to lynch a neutral still bugs me, but that's moot if Flarg flips scum.
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Rhand, you can't be shocked at my wolf reading you when I can't even think of a worse way you could have played that role, short of hard claiming first post day 1.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I thought he was town joining me on the gambit adventure for a very long time. I remember thinking "nooo Flarg don't claim now, Sloth has already made clear it was a vig shot" but I didn't give it a second thought. Until now where I noticed that huge discrepancy in his Zionite read. There's just no way he naturally went from Zionite town to Zionite mafia the way he did.
It's all about our N1 cell chat. He was so chatty and pure, that I just cleared him without looking back.
Which I now think was a mistake.
I have been doubting for a little while now. I sent him a message toDay and wanted to see his answer. I asked if we should keep up the charade, and I figured that his response to that would make clear what mindset he is in. But then he replaced out and there's no point anymore. That's when I ISO'd him and found the Zionite stuff.
I did not hand him a claim to deflect pressure, I asked him to claim my action to make sure everyone knows Grape wasn't the NK. That it deflected pressure was what I figured back then a nice added bonus because I was townreading him and scumreading ZDS.
I don't get it. Why is it such a bad way to play the role? Step in my shoes for this. I was townreading Flarg hard.
Or, and hear me out on this one: You just don't hint or tell anyone about it and just attempt to be an apparent 50% chance vig, who gets a 25% boost if he is on a mislynch.
You instead drew attention. Like point blank, if I were a role, and a town RB was revealed, I would have just shot you dead. At the absolute bare minimum, I would issue a rolecop that they almost certainly have, given that they felt bold enough to go after sloth again. Or could perhaps scan you.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
That’s gonna be a yikes from me dawg
Did anyone miss the PR softing? It was practically PR harding. I’m finding it harder and harder to believe that you believe the things you are saying.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Why don't you ask Vaimes if that is true dude?
You have a reason for this. And I don’t think it’s town anymoee
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Ya now that you mentioned it, slot of his interactions and reads revolving around Flarg make absolutely no sense
Because Flarg replaced out and wouldn't reply to my message anymore.
Eh what? How did you come to that conclusion?
@Rhand
something is fishy.
instead you will die tonight?
that logic does not compute
This. This moment is why. Unless you have a townfirm this is why this is a bad way to play the role.
I kinda wanna vote you but that 5 year old joke makes me not wanna move off Rod out of prinicple
Oh hush it’s a joke
As for how Flarg acted parading around with a fakeclaim, I don't even know.
That's how furious I am.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
do you believe rhand and flarg are both scum?
um? Weird pocket attempt but ok. <3