I guess to clarify:
Consistency/lack thereof of opinions/logic is unlikely to be AI. Especially depending on player. Like, maybe that would work on zds. But youre gonna have a real bad time looking for consistency in rodemy or me or something.
Inconsistency between <actions/given thoughts> and <stated reads> is a different matter
Jack keeps saying hes deep in an umami tunnel but doesnt take any actions that show that. Thats scummy.
Rodemy changing his read of me from "9 times out of 10" to not serious at all isn't
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Z25
you said something along the lines of, Shadow's frustration in regards to votes on himself that he believes to be unexplained, make him more likely to be town
I can see where you are coming from, but I am not particularly interested in following it
Shadow is still in my lower PoE due to overall content
does it reflect well? sure?
I tend to be attracted to emotion over actual content
still think its not particularly hard for him to make statements like that as either alignment
So anyway, @Rhand: Do you believe ZDS is being fair in his accusations?
I understand his thought process. He’s wrong, but I know I won’t convince him he is.
I think he’s town though. The way he said that he doesn’t lay traps comes from a pure town mindset. He didn’t even consider that mafia also lays traps.
@Z25
you said something along the lines of, Shadow's frustration in regards to votes on himself that he believes to be unexplained, make him more likely to be town
I can see where you are coming from, but I am not particularly interested in following it
Shadow is still in my lower PoE due to overall content
does it reflect well? sure?
I tend to be attracted to emotion over actual content
still think its not particularly hard for him to make statements like that as either alignment
this a thing i was thinking about actually
I believe shadow doesnt respect my scumread of him. But its sort of like CFTWR being unreliable as a tell. Regardless of his alignment he doesnt think that THAT makes him scum/scummy.
So i kind of loop back to the way he questioned it. And it wasn't a dismissal and move on. And it wasn't a omgus back at me because "tom wouldnt push me for this lol".
Which are the sort of extreme stances scum take in a vacuum
Its kind of between those. More measured. More like he wants to figure out if i believe it.
So i guess the answer is i dont because i kinda think shadows town now
Pretty sure I said both cases were unimpressive.
Admittedly, I did say that Tom's case was valid if true, given what I remember of the way you play. There just wasn't a lot to see to back up his claims, and until I myself see the deviation, I'm okay with how I'm reading you.
shadow, what is your current take on Jack? Are you still scumreading him? Are you still afraid of chaining town lynches?
Afraid isn’t the right word. I don’t think jack is scum though anymore, and in general the thread has pivoted such that we aren’t in a position to chain lynch onto jack.
Quote from ZDS »
Regarding the wagon analysis, I tried to keep as open a mind as I possibly could. After all I was wrong on ITF, it would be awfully presumptious of me to assume my other reads were right. Any contradiction with my previously apparent reads is the result of this and I do not mind.
Did you see anything surprising in that analysis? Anyone not ranked as you expected me to?
I think maybe I phrased my question poorly, I want you to specifically talk about which reads did change from it. I’m not bothered by a flip in reads, just want to see where you feel like this made a difference.
@tom: what’s your take on Vaimes, specifically looking at how he is stuck on my read on him?
@Z25
you said something along the lines of, Shadow's frustration in regards to votes on himself that he believes to be unexplained, make him more likely to be town
I can see where you are coming from, but I am not particularly interested in following it
Shadow is still in my lower PoE due to overall content
does it reflect well? sure?
I tend to be attracted to emotion over actual content
still think its not particularly hard for him to make statements like that as either alignment
this a thing i was thinking about actually
I believe shadow doesnt respect my scumread of him. But its sort of like CFTWR being unreliable as a tell. Regardless of his alignment he doesnt think that THAT makes him scum/scummy.
So i kind of loop back to the way he questioned it. And it wasn't a dismissal and move on. And it wasn't a omgus back at me because "tom wouldnt push me for this lol".
Which are the sort of extreme stances scum take in a vacuum
Its kind of between those. More measured. More like he wants to figure out if i believe it.
So i guess the answer is i dont because i kinda think shadows town now
I keep waiting for Sloth to post something substantial (rather than merely long) because it keeps bothering me how many reads he has compared with how little reading and investigating he's done.
In Prison he seemed way more careful about his reads, even taking into account the different context of how he joined the game. You see him ask around and gather evidence until he can make educated guesses. But in this game it's the opposite, he throws placeholder reads like rice at a wedding. There are exceptions in both cases (eg Zionite last game, Tubba here) but they are just that, exceptions.
Sloth,
— I don't need to speculate when I can use reading comprehension instead;
— What's a PBPA to you? Strictly a series of quoted & commented posts? Not that it's particularly relevant, I'm just curious;
— Generally speaking, do your thing. Maybe you'll prove my worries wrong.
Prison being the same game where I was wrong about everything until literal seconds before being NK'd? I mean, you can see why I wouldn't want a repeat of that.
You are right that my regular approach to a game is essentially that...but that's just not gonna work this game for me: I do not have the time to read slowly and carefully due to several factors, and I definitely don't have time to catch up. What you're seeing here is me playing this game at the D1 level while everyone else is in D2, while also hitting hard and fast with my reads while I still have them fresh.
That said, what sort of reads are you seeing me make? The only one that would constitute as a a read is Axel and the vote. Everything else are just leans (which I see as different than reads, do you not?). Not sure how I'm just throwing them around.
On reading comprehension: Fair, but what I mean was, why "reading comprehend" when you can just ask the person in question (tom), who happened to be there at the time.
PBPA is what the name implies, post-by-post analysis. Literally going over each individual post a playet has made and assess its content, which is then placed in the thread. Haven't done it in over 5 years. What Axel did and what I did (I assume you mean the Tom post in prison?) was just regular analysis.
Do you have any questions to me related to the game specifically?
For sloth, that definitely ties into my basketball analogy. His way of interacting with the thread is much showier and hollower. Hes shooting long 2s and getting lost in transition
Think hes scum
How can a man that just called me boo insult me like this? Is romance truly dead? :heartbreak emoji:
Also, for the last time, I really don't know basketball: what does "shooting long 2s" and "gettling lost in transition" mean?
@Z25
you said something along the lines of, Shadow's frustration in regards to votes on himself that he believes to be unexplained, make him more likely to be town
I can see where you are coming from, but I am not particularly interested in following it
Shadow is still in my lower PoE due to overall content
does it reflect well? sure?
I tend to be attracted to emotion over actual content
still think its not particularly hard for him to make statements like that as either alignment
this a thing i was thinking about actually
I believe shadow doesnt respect my scumread of him. But its sort of like CFTWR being unreliable as a tell. Regardless of his alignment he doesnt think that THAT makes him scum/scummy.
So i kind of loop back to the way he questioned it. And it wasn't a dismissal and move on. And it wasn't a omgus back at me because "tom wouldnt push me for this lol".
Which are the sort of extreme stances scum take in a vacuum
Its kind of between those. More measured. More like he wants to figure out if i believe it.
So i guess the answer is i dont because i kinda think shadows town now
can you give me like a tldr? lol
"its probably meaningless but heres a tangentially related townread"
whats unimpressive about mine? I didnt quote anything surely its "pending" until you see what im talking about and start comparing jack to last game
Just real quick: The quote doesn't have a whole lot of significance without context.
The rest of what you point out in #691 is valid, but without examples/quotes I can't really say you're correct, or if you're just interpreting things badly.
However, I admit it's hard to give examples of "all exposition no impact" or "not trying to get lynches."
I like your take on Jack more than Axel's game on ITF, as said, because if what you're saying is accurate regarding Jack's play, it deviates from prison enough that I can see it coming from scum.
All of this boils down to my needing to read the game to get clarity. ...but I'll do that later.
Kingdom Hearts 3 awaits.
Sloth, what was your progression on Jack? In particular, how long has he been a "townlean"?
Also, what's the difference between a "lean" and a "read" coming from you? How do we know which is which, assuming you don't always mention it explicitely? (AFAIAC a lean is a type of read, ie town > lean town > null > lean scum > scum)
Third, why do you feel the need to hit hard and fast with your reads while they are still fresh? What do you expect to happen if you don't do that and take your time instead? (And by "reads" do you mean "reads" or do you mean "leans"?)
---
I'm not sure where the wave of townreads on shadow is coming from but I guess his posts *have* improved (in terms of scumhunting).
Whispy, I literally never said that about shadow. Maybe you have me confused with Jack's 1128/1175 or Sloth's 1167 or Rod's 1183.
shadow, what made you change your mind on Jack?
My reads are in constant flux, but I'd say the wagon analysis most impacted how I see Tubba (null -> scum), tom (null -> town) and Axel (null -> town). I had a lot of null reads D1.
---
Rhand, what if I told you I saw your question about laying traps as a poorly disguised attack implying I'm scummily painting you as scum? What if I also told you I saw this attack, one might even call it a "trap", as possibly coming from a scum mindset? Does that change your opinion?
For sloth, that definitely ties into my basketball analogy. His way of interacting with the thread is much showier and hollower. Hes shooting long 2s and getting lost in transition
Think hes scum
How can a man that just called me boo insult me like this? Is romance truly dead? :heartbreak emoji:
Also, for the last time, I really don't know basketball: what does "shooting long 2s" and "gettling lost in transition" mean?
luckily this post is more for grape/whatever than you, but here you go
Townsloth from prison: Patrick Beverley is known for his tenacious defense and making himself an asset when he doesnt have the ball on offense, via movement etc. Hes not necessarily about scoring a lot of points, but when he does shoot its usually a high ROI shot (3 pointers and near the basket)
So when i say youre getting lost in transition, it means you play offense but then when the other team gets the ball you dont snap into that defense. In prison, even as your case on me was objectively bad i still felt smothered. Now youre someone halfheartedly waving a hand at a shooter that already got where he wanted
When you are taking a shot it feels lazy and low-percentage (aka a long 2. Same points as a dunk only from way further, or about as difficult as a 3 pointer but low reward.)
@ZDS: My read improved on Jack at eod 1, he felt very pure just prior to the lynch and thereafter.
So you fleshed our your null reads, but your leans in either direction stayed the same? Forgive me if this comes across as jerkish, but how is that anything but confbias? I’m not saying you can’t come to those reads, but you were saying since you were wrong on ITF that you didn’t want to get stuck in the same world view, yet that kind of seems like the case here? Am I missing something?
Some leans got weaker and some got stronger. In the end no matter how much I try to start anew and no matter how many times I read the same posts, I'm still going to read them the same if new info didn't light a new perspective on them. I am still me, I still notice the things I notice. That does not mean I'm not going to try, it's a useful exercise even if I don't end up far from where I started.
I'm more or less taking the weekend off, but I felt guilty about posting nothing, so at the risk of being accused of just going after the low hanging fruit, I looked at Tubba again. Something I did not realize was that he voted LW in his very first post of the game and then stuck with it for the entirety of D1. That's fairly unusual. But even so, it didn't seem like it was ever a "strong" vote. He didn't really push for it or try to convince anyone else about it. It was fairly well parked.
It's almost so bad that I want to say scum (with chat-scumbuddies) wouldn't do it? Just sit on the same vote all day and do nothing else? Surely someone would have told him he needed to do something more? I suppose it's possible not, with the way the ITF wagon went and no real opposition to it ever arising.
His own position on ITF was:
I can see the scummy tendencies others have pointed out on ITF, but I’m not seeing the scum equity. I don’t see what he’s trying to accomplish and it doesn’t look like anyone’s coordinating with him. Maybe that’s scum cutting the anchor loose, but even when ITF was posting there wasn’t anyone “liking it”. Probably just level 0 again but there should be some push back?
That's the only thing he ever said. Which to me looks like more of a neutral read than a scummy one. I wouldn't care about his being wishy-washy so much, but then he also listed ITF in the bottom 4 in his readlist post:
Not sus:
ZDS
Tom
Johnny
Rod
Vaimes
Killjoy
Kinda sus:
Rhand
Shadow
Grape
M+7
Jack
ITF
Axel
Sus:
Umami/Last
He said he really needs to see a flip to have something concrete to build from, which is a sentiment I can relate to, but he's been absent today so far. So,
@Tubba: Where you at? (both figuratively and literally).
I'm not voting anyone until I do a wagon analysis proper, but it could very well end up here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I know I said I'd do it, but rereading [everyone] today felt like a chore, and had other stuff on my mind, so I mostly did nothing. Poked around at some townleans' ISOs to feel productive.
Feel okay writing off Grape, ZDS, and Rod for now. Maybe tom too, not quite ready to turn on him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sorry for my absence, should’ve V/LA this weekend.
@Rod
The easiest way to put it is when other people say “kooky Rod”, I feel like does that make me “kooky Tubba”?
@ZDS
Just for posterity, you’re scum read was solidified because you felt that I didn’t do enough to sway a majority of my peers off of a lynch I wasn’t sure was wrong.
What would you have done in my position? Keep in mind, you have no town cred, 3/4 of the players scum reading you, and you’re not sure the lynch is wrong?
@Axel
Literally, I was largely incommunicado.
Figuratively, I’m not super shocked ITF flopped green. The absence of any counterplay pointed to a weak scum team or townITF. I don’t think we need to dig into the other implications of night time.
I don’t like Last’s low key OMGUS, but nobody else seems to care about anything they do.
Rhand is sliding down in my eyes, their position on KJ being scum and letting it slide contradicts their meta of always playing to their wincon. Also looking at the fact that they about faced on the KJ read after being called on it is smelly. Vote Rhand is the direction I want to look at today.
this has very little to do with you voting me, and more so you voting off the very first post, never re-evaluating and just leaving your vote on a dead train
Why did you never re-evaluate me, and if I remember you, you liked ITF kinda?, so how was a wagon on me going to save that?
idk why I need to be a voice in this game, all it does is blow up the thread
let me be less wishy-washy with my reads thanks
Gentleman Johnny was an active participant in the ITF wagon. He was among the first to have issues with him and restated (and updated) them several times. He did show some hesitation in 844 due to the lack of counter-wagon, which ultimately didn't seem to make him change his mind. That aside I only have two minor issues with him: 1) He mildly contradicts himself between 334 ("ITF is pretty null entry") and 372 ("ITF's post felt kind of lazy [...] and I personally didn't like it.") — ITF didn't post inbetween but Killjoy did, voting ITF. 2) He only votes after Axelrod's PBPA (this could be a playstyle issue since he likes to slowroll his votes, but it looks opportunistic nonetheless). Overall I am mostly fine with his role in the ITF wagon with some small issues.
It was more of waffling between a few people, and after Axelrod, I decided ITF was the best route to go at this stage. ITF/Axel/tom/KJ all fell under the lazy from my view of posting, and in some case, apparently purposefully on most. ITF's logic also just didn't ping me in a few spots. Moot point at this stage as its clearly flawed.
I have a weird conflict for today, and I am not quite sure how to handle it. Let's suffice to say that I have a good feeling about you ZDS. I hope my explanation looks good. I want you to continue watching this game carefully. I also really liked the analysis post, even if I disagreed with a few parts.
Vote tom Just been thoroughly unimpressed so far and for the time being, where I want to be right now unless ZDS thinks I should do something else.
I know this is to Rhand, but to be more of a presense at this stage, even if he is purposefully pulling back, I would like to at least see something. Even if it was a harder push on Jack at the time. To wolf read me again, and to just be a giant thorn in my ass. I feel like I have to keep remembering he is in this game.
For the record I buy tom's defense. There was some level of consensus yesterDay that something was amiss with the ITF wagon (eg the lack of successful counter-wagon or resistance), but nobody was able to come up with a town-case on ITF himself. So it's unfair to single out tom for not doing what nobody was able to do.
I have more of an issue that it felt like half the game thought Jack was wolfy, but as the vote count showed, it wasn't translating into votes. I want to reread if I don't have a ton of work today, because I feel like that some knowledge can be gleamed there, especially if Jack later flips wolf (considering the post after yours is sloth's votecount, it feels weirdly spread.
I think in general, I just need to reread more. I feel a bit more lost this game, maybe it's work being more demanding, maybe it's muilti tabbing. Not sure.
Jack and tom are on my list of "people to reevaluate on but later because procrastination." Both people I kinda feel good about but other people are raising the alarm over.
Tubba
shadow
Umami
Sloth
Axel
(tom)
(Jack)
I haven't finishd rereading everyone, but so far I have townleans on all other slots.
Yes, im being low impact. Ive already said thats a choice which i suppose you can choose not to believe
But hasnt your method of reading me always maintained im more serious and impactful as scum?
I personally think my choice is towny for me. Because its a reaction to early bad reads in my last two town games, whereas in my most recent scumgames i crushed...
Not that i expect anyone to get to "towntom got reminded hard that gut is unreliable but hes good at lategame worldbuilding" as my mindset.
Yes, im being low impact. Ive already said thats a choice which i suppose you can choose not to believe
But hasnt your method of reading me always maintained im more serious and impactful as scum?
I personally think my choice is towny for me. Because its a reaction to early bad reads in my last two town games, whereas in my most recent scumgames i crushed...
Not that i expect anyone to get to "towntom got reminded hard that gut is unreliable but hes good at lategame worldbuilding" as my mindset.
But im unclear on what mindset makes it scummy
Didn't you repeatedly tell me that was a bad way to read you in present time?
Yes, im being low impact. Ive already said thats a choice which i suppose you can choose not to believe
But hasnt your method of reading me always maintained im more serious and impactful as scum?
I personally think my choice is towny for me. Because its a reaction to early bad reads in my last two town games, whereas in my most recent scumgames i crushed...
Not that i expect anyone to get to "towntom got reminded hard that gut is unreliable but hes good at lategame worldbuilding" as my mindset.
But im unclear on what mindset makes it scummy
Didn't you repeatedly tell me that was a bad way to read you in present time?
Consistency/lack thereof of opinions/logic is unlikely to be AI. Especially depending on player. Like, maybe that would work on zds. But youre gonna have a real bad time looking for consistency in rodemy or me or something.
Inconsistency between <actions/given thoughts> and <stated reads> is a different matter
Jack keeps saying hes deep in an umami tunnel but doesnt take any actions that show that. Thats scummy.
Rodemy changing his read of me from "9 times out of 10" to not serious at all isn't
@Sloth: You aren't being nearly as Slothy this game as you were last game. Sup with that?
you said something along the lines of, Shadow's frustration in regards to votes on himself that he believes to be unexplained, make him more likely to be town
I can see where you are coming from, but I am not particularly interested in following it
Shadow is still in my lower PoE due to overall content
does it reflect well? sure?
I tend to be attracted to emotion over actual content
still think its not particularly hard for him to make statements like that as either alignment
I understand his thought process. He’s wrong, but I know I won’t convince him he is.
I think he’s town though. The way he said that he doesn’t lay traps comes from a pure town mindset. He didn’t even consider that mafia also lays traps.
I believe shadow doesnt respect my scumread of him. But its sort of like CFTWR being unreliable as a tell. Regardless of his alignment he doesnt think that THAT makes him scum/scummy.
So i kind of loop back to the way he questioned it. And it wasn't a dismissal and move on. And it wasn't a omgus back at me because "tom wouldnt push me for this lol".
Which are the sort of extreme stances scum take in a vacuum
Its kind of between those. More measured. More like he wants to figure out if i believe it.
So i guess the answer is i dont because i kinda think shadows town now
Sloth to Jack:
How hes reading him:
@tom: what’s your take on Vaimes, specifically looking at how he is stuck on my read on him?
can you give me like a tldr? lol
You are right that my regular approach to a game is essentially that...but that's just not gonna work this game for me: I do not have the time to read slowly and carefully due to several factors, and I definitely don't have time to catch up. What you're seeing here is me playing this game at the D1 level while everyone else is in D2, while also hitting hard and fast with my reads while I still have them fresh.
That said, what sort of reads are you seeing me make? The only one that would constitute as a a read is Axel and the vote. Everything else are just leans (which I see as different than reads, do you not?). Not sure how I'm just throwing them around.
On reading comprehension: Fair, but what I mean was, why "reading comprehend" when you can just ask the person in question (tom), who happened to be there at the time.
PBPA is what the name implies, post-by-post analysis. Literally going over each individual post a playet has made and assess its content, which is then placed in the thread. Haven't done it in over 5 years. What Axel did and what I did (I assume you mean the Tom post in prison?) was just regular analysis.
Do you have any questions to me related to the game specifically?
Also, for the last time, I really don't know basketball: what does "shooting long 2s" and "gettling lost in transition" mean?
To your question, I answered in #1213.
Sloth, what was your progression on Jack? In particular, how long has he been a "townlean"?
Also, what's the difference between a "lean" and a "read" coming from you? How do we know which is which, assuming you don't always mention it explicitely? (AFAIAC a lean is a type of read, ie town > lean town > null > lean scum > scum)
Third, why do you feel the need to hit hard and fast with your reads while they are still fresh? What do you expect to happen if you don't do that and take your time instead? (And by "reads" do you mean "reads" or do you mean "leans"?)
---
I'm not sure where the wave of townreads on shadow is coming from but I guess his posts *have* improved (in terms of scumhunting).
Whispy, I literally never said that about shadow. Maybe you have me confused with Jack's 1128/1175 or Sloth's 1167 or Rod's 1183.
shadow, what made you change your mind on Jack?
My reads are in constant flux, but I'd say the wagon analysis most impacted how I see Tubba (null -> scum), tom (null -> town) and Axel (null -> town). I had a lot of null reads D1.
---
Rhand, what if I told you I saw your question about laying traps as a poorly disguised attack implying I'm scummily painting you as scum? What if I also told you I saw this attack, one might even call it a "trap", as possibly coming from a scum mindset? Does that change your opinion?
---
What's CFTWR?
don't have time to check right now
gotta take a shower and then work
Townsloth from prison: Patrick Beverley is known for his tenacious defense and making himself an asset when he doesnt have the ball on offense, via movement etc. Hes not necessarily about scoring a lot of points, but when he does shoot its usually a high ROI shot (3 pointers and near the basket)
So when i say youre getting lost in transition, it means you play offense but then when the other team gets the ball you dont snap into that defense. In prison, even as your case on me was objectively bad i still felt smothered. Now youre someone halfheartedly waving a hand at a shooter that already got where he wanted
When you are taking a shot it feels lazy and low-percentage (aka a long 2. Same points as a dunk only from way further, or about as difficult as a 3 pointer but low reward.)
Hope this helps, <present day carmelo anthony>
So you fleshed our your null reads, but your leans in either direction stayed the same? Forgive me if this comes across as jerkish, but how is that anything but confbias? I’m not saying you can’t come to those reads, but you were saying since you were wrong on ITF that you didn’t want to get stuck in the same world view, yet that kind of seems like the case here? Am I missing something?
CFTWR = caught for the wrong reasons
It's almost so bad that I want to say scum (with chat-scumbuddies) wouldn't do it? Just sit on the same vote all day and do nothing else? Surely someone would have told him he needed to do something more? I suppose it's possible not, with the way the ITF wagon went and no real opposition to it ever arising.
His own position on ITF was:
That's the only thing he ever said. Which to me looks like more of a neutral read than a scummy one. I wouldn't care about his being wishy-washy so much, but then he also listed ITF in the bottom 4 in his readlist post:
He said he really needs to see a flip to have something concrete to build from, which is a sentiment I can relate to, but he's been absent today so far. So,
@Tubba: Where you at? (both figuratively and literally).
I'm not voting anyone until I do a wagon analysis proper, but it could very well end up here.
I am putting this game on the back burner for now
still ok with my vote on Tubba
and still waiting for everyone else to chime in
@rodemy
feel better
Feel okay writing off Grape, ZDS, and Rod for now. Maybe tom too, not quite ready to turn on him.
I'll try again tomorrow at work.
I'm gonna answer both of these at once. With regard to Vaimes, I liked a few of his early reactions to things that were said.
Right now I don't see an obvious agenda from tom.
I will caveat this and say I'm not as caught up as I'd like to be.
Better than Vaimes in every wayYou feel like you're holding things close to the vest as ocmparision to last game.@Rod
The easiest way to put it is when other people say “kooky Rod”, I feel like does that make me “kooky Tubba”?
@ZDS
Just for posterity, you’re scum read was solidified because you felt that I didn’t do enough to sway a majority of my peers off of a lynch I wasn’t sure was wrong.
What would you have done in my position? Keep in mind, you have no town cred, 3/4 of the players scum reading you, and you’re not sure the lynch is wrong?
@Axel
Literally, I was largely incommunicado.
Figuratively, I’m not super shocked ITF flopped green. The absence of any counterplay pointed to a weak scum team or townITF. I don’t think we need to dig into the other implications of night time.
I don’t like Last’s low key OMGUS, but nobody else seems to care about anything they do.
Rhand is sliding down in my eyes, their position on KJ being scum and letting it slide contradicts their meta of always playing to their wincon. Also looking at the fact that they about faced on the KJ read after being called on it is smelly.
Vote Rhand is the direction I want to look at today.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Why did you never re-evaluate me, and if I remember you, you liked ITF kinda?, so how was a wagon on me going to save that?
idk why I need to be a voice in this game, all it does is blow up the thread
let me be less wishy-washy with my reads thanks
It was more of waffling between a few people, and after Axelrod, I decided ITF was the best route to go at this stage. ITF/Axel/tom/KJ all fell under the lazy from my view of posting, and in some case, apparently purposefully on most. ITF's logic also just didn't ping me in a few spots. Moot point at this stage as its clearly flawed.
I have a weird conflict for today, and I am not quite sure how to handle it. Let's suffice to say that I have a good feeling about you ZDS. I hope my explanation looks good. I want you to continue watching this game carefully. I also really liked the analysis post, even if I disagreed with a few parts.
Vote tom Just been thoroughly unimpressed so far and for the time being, where I want to be right now unless ZDS thinks I should do something else.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I know this is to Rhand, but to be more of a presense at this stage, even if he is purposefully pulling back, I would like to at least see something. Even if it was a harder push on Jack at the time. To wolf read me again, and to just be a giant thorn in my ass. I feel like I have to keep remembering he is in this game.
I have more of an issue that it felt like half the game thought Jack was wolfy, but as the vote count showed, it wasn't translating into votes. I want to reread if I don't have a ton of work today, because I feel like that some knowledge can be gleamed there, especially if Jack later flips wolf (considering the post after yours is sloth's votecount, it feels weirdly spread.
I think in general, I just need to reread more. I feel a bit more lost this game, maybe it's work being more demanding, maybe it's muilti tabbing. Not sure.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Tubba
shadow
Umami
Sloth
Axel
(tom)
(Jack)
I haven't finishd rereading everyone, but so far I have townleans on all other slots.
Just curious because I don't think I've ever seen this word until this game.
Okay, I know it wasn't subtle, but I thought maybe it would be better not to say anything just to see how the Day plays out.
It's an MU term for yes, meaning multiple games.
Why do you think any person is mechanically outed o-0?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yes, im being low impact. Ive already said thats a choice which i suppose you can choose not to believe
But hasnt your method of reading me always maintained im more serious and impactful as scum?
I personally think my choice is towny for me. Because its a reaction to early bad reads in my last two town games, whereas in my most recent scumgames i crushed...
Not that i expect anyone to get to "towntom got reminded hard that gut is unreliable but hes good at lategame worldbuilding" as my mindset.
But im unclear on what mindset makes it scummy
This is wacky.
Didn't you repeatedly tell me that was a bad way to read you in present time?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vote Tom