Also, the scumteam is literally just Konan, Tubba, Wakemeup, Sloth and Ter. Amy, Last, Lagoon, tom, kpaca, Terry, Rodemy, Jackrito, Trisscar and Fuwa are all obvious town, mafia is so easy, don't @ me.
The scumteam is lirerally just Konan/Tubba/Wake/Sloth/ZDS.
Boom, bye scum.
unnamed players: axel, rhand, kj
of her pushes, konan, zds, wmu pretty much never partners
Sloth unlikely as well. She actively kept him out of the coalition of high posters
Tubba was a pretty background push, could see it as a light bus.
Both sloth and tubba she called out for townreading her
Terraine she mostly townread until putting her on the first of these and gave me some "is that all" to my push but never really turned on her
Amy, kpaca, and to a lesser extent lagoon were the audience for most of her posts. Can see fonti sneaking a partner in here on a bigger team but prolly not if its just 2.
Slightly pockety towards last/fuwa
Kj she gave a crap townread about alt guessing lagoon and then flaunts not having a read
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sloth: because I had fun throwing my vote around on day 1, but now I want to wait until I can read before I commit to things. I feel like I’ve already forgotten most of who’s said what over the night phase.
I think Fulcrum was the NK and Wisp was killed by the second SK.
I don’t know why everyone seems to think the second SK has even Night KP when Fulcrum’s target dies delayed.
Symmetry?
Also, what are you imagining the partner's KP is? Straight vig. every night? Meaning the "team" has 1 1/2 kills a night? That seems odd.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I think Fulcrum was the NK and Wisp was killed by the second SK.
I don’t know why everyone seems to think the second SK has even Night KP when Fulcrum’s target dies delayed.
Symmetry?
Also, what are you imagining the partner's KP is? Straight vig. every night? Meaning the "team" has 1 1/2 kills a night? That seems odd.
odd Night straight kill or even Night poison kill is what I think.
I think Fulcrum was the NK and Wisp was killed by the second SK.
I don’t know why everyone seems to think the second SK has even Night KP when Fulcrum’s target dies delayed.
I don't understand that statement. How does font's odd-Night poison being delayed mean her partner can't have an even-Night KP?
Ah crap forgot that one, apologies.
...I can see it if someone is from a third party faction, and they for some reason thought ZDS was a maf, or dangerous role that needing offing immediately. Which admittedly does not make much sense here since it was D1 and I personally did not notice a whole lot that would induce that thought from ZDS's play.
I can also see it if someone aimed a kill and it was redirected. I don't actually know what flavor of redirect and if the killer would be notified.
I could probably go down a couple rabbit holes and see it being a random shot that no one controlled for whatever reason, a reflect-style function of another role (which is technically a redirect but still an odd one), "Voldemort gets bored/Nagini gets hungry and offs a player a night based on actions taken", some kind of false death mechanic, etc. These are closer to wormholes than rabbit holes though.
I like the genuine-seeming, free-flowing thought on this and Trisscar's previous post, so I'll like him for now.
Triss, the redirector/reflector wormhole could potentially be a thing, except that Jack admitted to killing Dork and unless he's lying to us (why?) his target was always intended as Dork. Until we have more solid reason to believe this, I would just put that idea in the backburner.
Scum is unlikely to hit Dork based on possibility of WE (wrongful execution; trying out a few things to swap for ML), 3P are unlikely unless townsiding or rolehunting (unlikely for the latter, and why not just let him get hung if so?) Which leaves Jack being town!vig or townsided SK as the most likely answer.
Barring tinfoil, that is.
i think everyone except rod and tubba has checked in
which means it's either one of them or it's a dead person (or someone's sandbagging, but hopefully not)
personally i'm guessing fonti was aiming villagers with it and either it's rod or it was wisp
Or one of the scum team was poisoned. You keep it to yourself and even if you DO get caught by Town and lynched you do so knowing Town wasted their votes on an dead slot
i think everyone except rod and tubba has checked in
which means it's either one of them or it's a dead person (or someone's sandbagging, but hopefully not)
personally i'm guessing fonti was aiming villagers with it and either it's rod or it was wisp
Or one of the scum team was poisoned. You keep it to yourself and even if you DO get caught by Town and lynched you do so knowing Town wasted their votes on an dead slot
I think Fulcrum was the NK and Wisp was killed by the second SK.
I don’t know why everyone seems to think the second SK has even Night KP when Fulcrum’s target dies delayed.
Symmetry?
Also, what are you imagining the partner's KP is? Straight vig. every night? Meaning the "team" has 1 1/2 kills a night? That seems odd.
odd Night straight kill or even Night poison kill is what I think.
yeah those two more spread out than odd poison/even vig
They probably either killed wisp last night or get to poison someone tonight
I think Fulcrum was the NK and Wisp was killed by the second SK.
I don’t know why everyone seems to think the second SK has even Night KP when Fulcrum’s target dies delayed.
Symmetry?
Also, what are you imagining the partner's KP is? Straight vig. every night? Meaning the "team" has 1 1/2 kills a night? That seems odd.
odd Night straight kill or even Night poison kill is what I think.
yeah those two more spread out than odd poison/even vig
They probably either killed wisp last night or get to poison someone tonight
Why? Just because it delays the kill and they have to plan for the future?
There's really not a huge difference in an even-Night ability that kills or delay-kills. Seriously not following this.
An odd poison + even vig would be kills that went through at the start and end of night 2
Basically 2 kills every even night and none every odd night
An odd poison/odd vig (or just two poisoners) would be a kill per cycle
Having 3 deaths last night lends some credence to odd poison/odd vig
Mainly because otherwise theres gotta be 2 mafia kills or a third evil faction or multiple town vigs...
Id say you were top town and you didn’t die. Hmmmm
As long as she was wrong about me in day 1 and started day 2 by voting me, i'd say she may be a wrong villager.
This argument is the worst to scum read someone in day 2, and until you come with a real thought i consider this a shade tbh.
Looking forward though for a real case if you have something i didn't notice.
(1) An odd poison + even vig would be kills that went through at the start and end of night 2
Basically 2 kills every even night and none every odd night
An odd poison/odd vig (or just two poisoners) would be a kill per cycle
Having 3 deaths last night lends some credence to odd poison/odd vig
Mainly because otherwise theres gotta be 2 mafia kills or a third evil faction or multiple town vigs...
I get what you're saying here, and the thought did cross my mind, but it's not like the poisoner can change their shot after making it.
It's more of a kill order per cycle, but they occur at the same time, which feels more even and more potentially tripping.
In addition, we're assuming that the other Carrows' ability is not on a delay either. This is not a bad assumption, but the alternative is not impossible, really.
Also, maybe it's just my perspective, but I don't get what would be so strange about a mafia team with an extra kill/vig.
Btw, what are your thoughts on #2040? Does it affect your read of me at all? I see you're not voting me.
im still reading and phone posting on low batteries. But WTF!? To both the blood bath and flips as well as this post. Die scum
This strong reaction comes from which part of the post, Jerry?
Ok, I'm on my laptop now. I'm still not all the way caught up, but after the Konan flip, I was bent on ZDS certainly being scum because of the speed in which the Konan counter wagon formed. I fully intended on going this route today and picking through the Konan counter voters and trying to read intentions on votes. That being said, this is the statement I had an issue with:
"I wish to read a little in who pushed ZDS. That push was scum orchestrated for sure."
First, it reads to me like two distinct opinions. The first sentence reads, like "maybe I'll look into, it might be a thing", the second reads like, "That was definitely for sure pushed by scum!" Being that I was one of the main pushers of ZDS and I planned on doing it again today, and I know I'm not scum, this raised some alarms for me. It just resonates as a weak approach to fake scum hunting. Like, "Oh, look at the town flip! Let's try to lynch people on that wagon!", but why not the actual wagon on Konan who also flipped town after being lynched? It kind of blows my mind that the ZDS wagonis what WMU wants to push instead of the Konan lynch. For crying out loud, it is very likely that Jack is a town vig and took the exact same shot I would have, so how does that line up with ZDS being a scum push, when the most likely scenario was that he was killed by a town vig? I still need to unwrap everything, but this is my knee jerk reaction explained.
im still reading and phone posting on low batteries. But WTF!? To both the blood bath and flips as well as this post. Die scum
This strong reaction comes from which part of the post, Jerry?
Ok, I'm on my laptop now. I'm still not all the way caught up, but after the Konan flip, I was bent on ZDS certainly being scum because of the speed in which the Konan counter wagon formed. I fully intended on going this route today and picking through the Konan counter voters and trying to read intentions on votes. That being said, this is the statement I had an issue with:
"I wish to read a little in who pushed ZDS. That push was scum orchestrated for sure."
First, it reads to me like two distinct opinions. The first sentence reads, like "maybe I'll look into, it might be a thing", the second reads like, "That was definitely for sure pushed by scum!" Being that I was one of the main pushers of ZDS and I planned on doing it again today, and I know I'm not scum, this raised some alarms for me. It just resonates as a weak approach to fake scum hunting. Like, "Oh, look at the town flip! Let's try to lynch people on that wagon!", but why not the actual wagon on Konan who also flipped town after being lynched? It kind of blows my mind that the ZDS wagonis what WMU wants to push instead of the Konan lynch. For crying out loud, it is very likely that Jack is a town vig and took the exact same shot I would have, so how does that line up with ZDS being a scum push, when the most likely scenario was that he was killed by a town vig? I still need to unwrap everything, but this is my knee jerk reaction explained.
Well, you explained pretty logical, but while you type 'die scum' why don't you have the balls to vote me in the same time?
Scum can be logical too, so your ideas above are not AI for me.
The logic of the cw as scum orchestrated is because mafia knew Konan would flip villager most probably so it was maybe avoided and i wish to look into the cozy smaller wagon who was on ZDS at Eod, mafia may hide between these folks easier, and i don't get why were you tilted by my reasoning because i could never know what's in your head.
so.. I’m confused why you aren’t just saying terry, the only person here on zds EOD. Before that was me and goo. So like. Who the **** are you actually looking at?
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im still reading and phone posting on low batteries. But WTF!? To both the blood bath and flips as well as this post. Die scum
This strong reaction comes from which part of the post, Jerry?
Ok, I'm on my laptop now. I'm still not all the way caught up, but after the Konan flip, I was bent on ZDS certainly being scum because of the speed in which the Konan counter wagon formed. I fully intended on going this route today and picking through the Konan counter voters and trying to read intentions on votes. That being said, this is the statement I had an issue with:
"I wish to read a little in who pushed ZDS. That push was scum orchestrated for sure."
First, it reads to me like two distinct opinions. The first sentence reads, like "maybe I'll look into, it might be a thing", the second reads like, "That was definitely for sure pushed by scum!" Being that I was one of the main pushers of ZDS and I planned on doing it again today, and I know I'm not scum, this raised some alarms for me. It just resonates as a weak approach to fake scum hunting. Like, "Oh, look at the town flip! Let's try to lynch people on that wagon!", but why not the actual wagon on Konan who also flipped town after being lynched? It kind of blows my mind that the ZDS wagonis what WMU wants to push instead of the Konan lynch. For crying out loud, it is very likely that Jack is a town vig and took the exact same shot I would have, so how does that line up with ZDS being a scum push, when the most likely scenario was that he was killed by a town vig? I still need to unwrap everything, but this is my knee jerk reaction explained.
Well, you explained pretty logical, but while you type 'die scum' why don't you have the balls to vote me in the same time?
Scum can be logical too, so your ideas above are not AI for me.
The logic of the cw as scum orchestrated is because mafia knew Konan would flip villager most probably so it was maybe avoided and i wish to look into the cozy smaller wagon who was on ZDS at Eod, mafia may hide between these folks easier, and i don't get why were you tilted by my reasoning because i could never know what's in your head.
The huge snake emerged to climb slowly up Voldemort’s chair. It rose, seemingly endlessly, and came to rest across Voldemort’s shoulders: its neck the thickness of a man’s thigh; its eyes, with their vertical slits for pupils, unblinking. Voldemort stroked the creature absently with long thin fingers...
The logic of the cw as scum orchestrated is because mafia
ZDS wasn't a counter wagon pushed to rival Konan's though. He was being wagoned by VC 1.7 when no one was even looking crossed eyed at Shadow/eventually Konan. So your logic that it was orchestrated by scum to avoid suspicion of being part of the konan mislynch falls apart.
Fulcrum, ok, so most likely we have another SK that's a Carrow, with what I would guess is an even night kill power. That means tonight we should see two deaths attributed to the SK (one from poison and one from an SK (I don't know HP lore, but from the flavor text I assume there is only two Carrow siblings)). I was not poisoned and we shouldn't bother lynching the person that was. I think we have a running tally and should be able to POE it.
LW, Tom Riddle... Isn't Tom Riddle Voldamort!? Like I said my HP lore game is weak. That being said, I think LW must have been either Town or 3P. You can't give scum control over the upgrade mechanic... can you? Now there is another Tom Riddle. The question is do we want to know who the new Tom Riddle is or not? I think, if we assume that Osi would not have given control of the upgrade to scum, the new Tom Riddle MUST be town, because if LW was a 3P then another player wouldn't have shared an alignment right? So I think LW was town and so is the new Tom Riddle. That being said, I think scum would want to kill Tom Riddle because odds say that town is more likely to receive the upgrade. Does that mean I think scum killed LW, not necessarily, it just means that I think if scum found out who the new Tom Riddle is, they would probably want them dead, therefore I think Tom Riddle keeps it in their pants until forced to claim. Who killed LW? I have no clue. It seemed pretty clear Fulcrum was killed by scum and Jack claimed ZDS, so here's my hot take...
When Konan died, LW got a Dark Mark shot and targeted a PGO.
ZDS, Thank you Jack for taking that shot and claiming it. I would have done the same. Jack can be pretty solidly town for now.
"It is a monstrous thing, to slay a unicorn. [...] Only one who has nothing to lose, and everything to gain, would commit such a crime. The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure and defenseless to save yourself, and you will have but a half-life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.”
A colossal skull, comprised of what looked like emerald stars, with a serpent protruding from its mouth like a tongue. As they watched, it rose higher and higher, blazing in a haze of greenish smoke, etched against the black sky like a new constellation.
Btw, what are your thoughts on #2040? Does it affect your read of me at all? I see you're not voting me.
the one where you said my method of reading you is bad when im 3 for 4 reading you correctly and the one time i was wrong was a read on the person you replaced?
The logic of the cw as scum orchestrated is because mafia
ZDS wasn't a counter wagon pushed to rival Konan's though. He was being wagoned by VC 1.7 when no one was even looking crossed eyed at Shadow/eventually Konan. So your logic that it was orchestrated by scum to avoid suspicion of being part of the konan mislynch falls apart.
you are right, i will think at this overnight (real night)
konan, zds, wmu pretty much never partnersSloth unlikely as well. She actively kept him out of the coalition of high posters
Tubba was a pretty background push, could see it as a light bus.
Both sloth and tubba she called out for townreading her
Terraine she mostly townread until putting her on the first of these and gave me some "is that all" to my push but never really turned on her
Amy, kpaca, and to a lesser extent lagoon were the audience for most of her posts. Can see fonti sneaking a partner in here on a bigger team but prolly not if its just 2.
Slightly pockety towards last/fuwa
Kj she gave a crap townread about alt guessing lagoon and then flaunts not having a read
The rest is unexplained townreads
Fonti partner rainbow wall:
Wmu/amy/kpaca
Sloth/lagoon
Last/fuwa
Tubba/terraine/rhand/axel
Terry/rodemy/jack/triss
Kj
Gold pile too big tbh
But if its kj i nailed it
Also it's still not me Tom.
which means it's either one of them or it's a dead person (or someone's sandbagging, but hopefully not)
personally i'm guessing fonti was aiming villagers with it and either it's rod or it was wisp
Id say you were top town and you didn’t die. Hmmmm
Also, what are you imagining the partner's KP is? Straight vig. every night? Meaning the "team" has 1 1/2 kills a night? That seems odd.
let it marinate just a little longer. I prefer not to blow a bunch of smoke unless I can provide some fire.
And I’m not poisoned.
I also suspect kill joy and will support this while I marinated on ampharos.
odd Night straight kill or even Night poison kill is what I think.
I don't understand that statement. How does font's odd-Night poison being delayed mean her partner can't have an even-Night KP?
I like the genuine-seeming, free-flowing thought on this and Trisscar's previous post, so I'll like him for now.
Triss, the redirector/reflector wormhole could potentially be a thing, except that Jack admitted to killing Dork and unless he's lying to us (why?) his target was always intended as Dork. Until we have more solid reason to believe this, I would just put that idea in the backburner.
Scum is unlikely to hit Dork based on possibility of WE (wrongful execution; trying out a few things to swap for ML), 3P are unlikely unless townsiding or rolehunting (unlikely for the latter, and why not just let him get hung if so?) Which leaves Jack being town!vig or townsided SK as the most likely answer.
Barring tinfoil, that is.
Is the bolded a gut feel or do you have actual reason to believe it?
tbh, I was half-thinking that her target was most likely Dork, for scumreading reasons.
Or one of the scum team was poisoned. You keep it to yourself and even if you DO get caught by Town and lynched you do so knowing Town wasted their votes on an dead slot
I think it’s very possible given their interactions. Didn’t goo have fulcrum as town?
Which interactions? Mind you I also had Fonti as Town. What about Goo pings you beyond the read?
They probably either killed wisp last night or get to poison someone tonight
Why? Just because it delays the kill and they have to plan for the future?
There's really not a huge difference in an even-Night ability that kills or delay-kills. Seriously not following this.
Basically 2 kills every even night and none every odd night
An odd poison/odd vig (or just two poisoners) would be a kill per cycle
Having 3 deaths last night lends some credence to odd poison/odd vig
Mainly because otherwise theres gotta be 2 mafia kills or a third evil faction or multiple town vigs...
As long as she was wrong about me in day 1 and started day 2 by voting me, i'd say she may be a wrong villager.
This argument is the worst to scum read someone in day 2, and until you come with a real thought i consider this a shade tbh.
Looking forward though for a real case if you have something i didn't notice.
It's more of a kill order per cycle, but they occur at the same time, which feels more even and more potentially tripping.
In addition, we're assuming that the other Carrows' ability is not on a delay either. This is not a bad assumption, but the alternative is not impossible, really.
Also, maybe it's just my perspective, but I don't get what would be so strange about a mafia team with an extra kill/vig.
Btw, what are your thoughts on #2040? Does it affect your read of me at all? I see you're not voting me.
I’ll have to come back to this when I find the arguments. It’s been a bit
"I wish to read a little in who pushed ZDS. That push was scum orchestrated for sure."
First, it reads to me like two distinct opinions. The first sentence reads, like "maybe I'll look into, it might be a thing", the second reads like, "That was definitely for sure pushed by scum!" Being that I was one of the main pushers of ZDS and I planned on doing it again today, and I know I'm not scum, this raised some alarms for me. It just resonates as a weak approach to fake scum hunting. Like, "Oh, look at the town flip! Let's try to lynch people on that wagon!", but why not the actual wagon on Konan who also flipped town after being lynched? It kind of blows my mind that the ZDS wagonis what WMU wants to push instead of the Konan lynch. For crying out loud, it is very likely that Jack is a town vig and took the exact same shot I would have, so how does that line up with ZDS being a scum push, when the most likely scenario was that he was killed by a town vig? I still need to unwrap everything, but this is my knee jerk reaction explained.
Why do you ask? Can you prove me wrong?
Because Town players usually have reasons for their reads beyond snide quips and as you keep putting it "shade."
Well, you explained pretty logical, but while you type 'die scum' why don't you have the balls to vote me in the same time?
Scum can be logical too, so your ideas above are not AI for me.
The logic of the cw as scum orchestrated is because mafia knew Konan would flip villager most probably so it was maybe avoided and i wish to look into the cozy smaller wagon who was on ZDS at Eod, mafia may hide between these folks easier, and i don't get why were you tilted by my reasoning because i could never know what's in your head.
He was the only one else on that wagon.
so.. I’m confused why you aren’t just saying terry, the only person here on zds EOD. Before that was me and goo. So like. Who the **** are you actually looking at?
Like I guess? But I was on that wagon most of the day and Konami died on that wagon.
I don’t see the logic in it really.
VOTE WAKE
I thought at this vc
when you find one scummy enough to say 'die scum' you don't want that player lynched? That's odd, ngl.
ZDS wasn't a counter wagon pushed to rival Konan's though. He was being wagoned by VC 1.7 when no one was even looking crossed eyed at Shadow/eventually Konan. So your logic that it was orchestrated by scum to avoid suspicion of being part of the konan mislynch falls apart.
Fulcrum, ok, so most likely we have another SK that's a Carrow, with what I would guess is an even night kill power. That means tonight we should see two deaths attributed to the SK (one from poison and one from an SK (I don't know HP lore, but from the flavor text I assume there is only two Carrow siblings)). I was not poisoned and we shouldn't bother lynching the person that was. I think we have a running tally and should be able to POE it.
LW, Tom Riddle... Isn't Tom Riddle Voldamort!? Like I said my HP lore game is weak. That being said, I think LW must have been either Town or 3P. You can't give scum control over the upgrade mechanic... can you? Now there is another Tom Riddle. The question is do we want to know who the new Tom Riddle is or not? I think, if we assume that Osi would not have given control of the upgrade to scum, the new Tom Riddle MUST be town, because if LW was a 3P then another player wouldn't have shared an alignment right? So I think LW was town and so is the new Tom Riddle. That being said, I think scum would want to kill Tom Riddle because odds say that town is more likely to receive the upgrade. Does that mean I think scum killed LW, not necessarily, it just means that I think if scum found out who the new Tom Riddle is, they would probably want them dead, therefore I think Tom Riddle keeps it in their pants until forced to claim. Who killed LW? I have no clue. It seemed pretty clear Fulcrum was killed by scum and Jack claimed ZDS, so here's my hot take...
When Konan died, LW got a Dark Mark shot and targeted a PGO.
ZDS, Thank you Jack for taking that shot and claiming it. I would have done the same. Jack can be pretty solidly town for now.
I think youre scum but not with fonti
you are right, i will think at this overnight (real night)
VOTE: xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
Mate that was partially because you hadn't posted much, at least as far as I could tell.