I actually found this story pretty funny. It turns out that somebody in Austalia who got rejected from medical school decided to go to classes anyway. He finally got caught after two years when another student put his name on a group assignment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
I really don't know what the point of that was. Without legal enrollment none of that time would have counted if he actually got in, especially if he didn't take any tests.
He should have just waited the year and reapplied. Now no one is going to want to hire this guy.
Is this some kind of knowledge theft? How are they so grim about this?
Honestly, if he wasn't disrupting the class at all, I don't see a problem.
I think the main issues are that he a)got some level of education without paying (regardless of the fact that he got no credit for the classes), b)gained access to restricted areas within the school and c)had contact with patients who assumed he was a legitimate student although he never performed any treatments.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
I think the main issues are that he a)got some level of education without paying (regardless of the fact that he got no credit for the classes), b)gained access to restricted areas within the school and c)had contact with patients who assumed he was a legitimate student although he never performed any treatments.
By second year you generally have actual patient contact (with standardized patients to practice procedures), meaning legally he was practicing medicine without a license. The actual students operate under the medical director's license.
Is this some kind of knowledge theft? How are they so grim about this?
Honestly, if he wasn't disrupting the class at all, I don't see a problem.
I was going to post something similar. After all, if they were doing well for two whole years, that should count for something, right? Well, the problem is that he had access to patients and supplies. That's a huge security breach. Let's be honest, doing something like that is a little sketchy and it does raise questions about mental stability. You can't just assume that someone in that position won't cause serious harm to themselves or others. I see it as a matter of principle, really. If the school wants to retain credibility and integrity, they've got to get rid of someone like that. It makes them look bad enough that he was able to get away with it for as long as he did.
I actually found this story pretty funny. It turns out that somebody in Austalia who got rejected from medical school decided to go to classes anyway. He finally got caught after two years when another student put his name on a group assignment.
To clarify, this happened in New Zealand, not Australia.
When I was still a med student, we joked about doing this - sneaking into the dental school so we could become dentists instead. We (likely mistakenly) believed that going the dental route would have been a much smarter choice than going the medical route.
Anyway, I'm surprised that someone would have the resources to do this. How did this student support himself? I can't imagine making a living and carving enough time to survive med school.
Also, like someone already mentioned, the 1st two years of med school is generally didactics - classroom, labs, tests, then rinse and repeat. For anyone who is interested .. 3rd year is when the clinical rotations begin - we act like resident-lites through Medicine / OB Gyn / Pediatrics / Surgery / etc..
It could be a case that the student told his/her parents that they had got in, so they were being supported at home and attending class to maintain the ruse?
I actually found this story pretty funny. It turns out that somebody in Austalia who got rejected from medical school decided to go to classes anyway. He finally got caught after two years when another student put his name on a group assignment.
I'm not sure if you're reading this right. If you're referring to this article, from the Otago Daily Times, about a student at the University of Auckland, which is hosted on a website with the community geographic domain names of .nz, and the article ends with "Anna Leask, NZ Herald", the man is in New Zealand. Did you even read the article?! Why would you do this? Why does anyone do this?
Considering you're really no good without actually a degree, I don't know what this guy thought he could gain out of this. In the first two years, you learn ethics, watered-down law in the context of medicine and professionalism, so this man should have removed himself as soon as possible. These lectures should have smacked him in the face, as his actions run completely contrary to the principles and tenets taught.
Obviously, there are serious issues here, other than ripping off a heaps expensive education from Auckland Uni, and it's good, considering the circumstances, that this guy didn't do more than take histories.
But this sort of damaged the reputation of Auckland Uni and trust in med students. However, it was summarily resolved without too much of an issue.
It could be a case that the student told his/her parents that they had got in, so they were being supported at home and attending class to maintain the ruse?
Well, that's sad. Parents mightn't give a damn, but what kind of parent/guardian doesn't really know what's going on with their child/charge?
I don't know what the end-game for this guy was, but this would have not been good for him, especially if he wants to properly study at Auckland U, do higher education or practise medicine.
When I was still a med student, we joked about doing this - sneaking into the dental school so we could become dentists instead. We (likely mistakenly) believed that going the dental route would have been a much smarter choice than going the medical route.
Anyway, I'm surprised that someone would have the resources to do this. How did this student support himself? I can't imagine making a living and carving enough time to survive med school.
Also, like someone already mentioned, the 1st two years of med school is generally didactics - classroom, labs, tests, then rinse and repeat. For anyone who is interested .. 3rd year is when the clinical rotations begin - we act like resident-lites through Medicine / OB Gyn / Pediatrics / Surgery / etc..
Whereabouts did you do your medical education?
Anyway, of a six-year course in ANZ, most have clinical experience all throughout. In the latter years, 5 and 6, students move off-campus and into the teaching hospitals.
As for student support, the En Zed Government has schemes to support various aspects of being a student, such as tuition and living expenses. (Some unis in New Zealand also charge fees willy-nilly.) However, as the guy wasn't really enrolled, as gelf suggested, probably parents. It's also possible that the man worked; several students did then and, generations and classes later, several students still do. You know, private academic or music tuition, check-out chick / bag boy, security guard, etc.
The problem might not just be practicing medicine without a license. In my course (I'm 2 months into it right now) we frequently have patients in lectures, meaning that they are giving out personal information about their medical history and current illness. You have to be a student to attend these lectures and, of course, you are legally obliged to keep all the information to yourself. Even if this guy never actually worked with a patient, it could be a breach of confidentiality.
The courses tend to use simulated patients and made-up cases. In the hospital, in junior levels, no personal identifying information would be revealed to students.*
However, there's definitely no small order of misconduct. In addition, those that had their histories taken by this guy would have had their trust and privacy seriously breached.
This would have been pretty devastating for the attending / co-ordinator. I just don't know this whole thing would fly, 'cause, no matter how clique-ish med school is and how people can be at a different hospitals, everyone knows (of) everyone.
Anatomy lessons with bodies are heavily regulated as well, etc.
Oh definitely. However, I don't recall the Human Tissue Act mentioning anything about students themselves. On the other hand, irregularities can cause anatomy schools to lose their licence. In fact, a few years ago, a school in Sydney, Australia had its licence revoked by the Department of Health. That school no longer conducts anatomical examinations (but it continues to run a medical programme).
*Lol, just remembered that this isn't true: patient histories!
The problem might not just be practicing medicine without a license. In my course (I'm 2 months into it right now) we frequently have patients in lectures, meaning that they are giving out personal information about their medical history and current illness. You have to be a student to attend these lectures and, of course, you are legally obliged to keep all the information to yourself. Even if this guy never actually worked with a patient, it could be a breach of confidentiality. Anatomy lessons with bodies are heavily regulated as well, etc.
My wife is a fourth year med student, I knows how it goes.
Anyway, of a six-year course in ANZ, most have clinical experience all throughout. In the latter years, 5 and 6, students move off-campus and into the teaching hospitals.
As for student support, the En Zed Government has schemes to support various aspects of being a student, such as tuition and living expenses. (Some unis in New Zealand also charge fees willy-nilly.) However, as the guy wasn't really enrolled, as gelf suggested, probably parents. It's also possible that the man worked; several students did then and, generations and classes later, several students still do. You know, private academic or music tuition, check-out chick / bag boy, security guard, etc.
Hello again.
I did my time (joking .. med school wasn't too bad when looking at it retrospectively) in the midwest. I didn't get into any Chicago schools, so I had to settle for the next best thing. Nothing against the East Coast, but it just seems so far away from home.
Does NZ have med school like the UK where you go to Undergrad + Med school for a total of 6 years? Do you guys then do 3+ years residency afterwards?
I have a feeling that only the US uses the Undergrad + MCAT (major weedout) + 4 years med school + 3+ years residency model.
Also, I've heard that tuition is covered by governments in some European countries. Is it like that in NZ?
I left school with about $200k in debt. Seeing as how I'm going to Primary Care, I will have to pay this for a long, long time. That's a major aspect of American medical education I would like to see changed some day.
Medical school matters in the Antipodes vary widely. Some schools have 5-year or 6-year high-school-leaver programmes. Others have 4-year Graduate programmes. Others have something else, like 6- or 7-year double-degree programmes or programmes where you transfer into after successful and competitive completion of an initial year, generally in health sciences.
After that, we serve a postgraduate year 1 and gain registration numbers. Some people commence specialist training here if the specialty allows it (e.g., path), though I really wouldn't recommend it. Most others do another year for things such as IM or Surg. Some people hang around a few years as residents, which isn't a terrible thing.
NZers wish they were Scandinavians. The Government pays ~75% of the tuition and students can borrow from the Government. It is still dear.
I left school with about $200k in debt. Seeing as how I'm going to Primary Care, I will have to pay this for a long, long time. That's a major aspect of American medical education I would like to see changed some day.
That is unfortunate. Tertiary education is one way to increase your chances in the world - though I can't that it's a sure thing - but it is prohibitive for a large portion of society. Very sad.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I actually found this story pretty funny. It turns out that somebody in Austalia who got rejected from medical school decided to go to classes anyway. He finally got caught after two years when another student put his name on a group assignment.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
He should have just waited the year and reapplied. Now no one is going to want to hire this guy.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Honestly, if he wasn't disrupting the class at all, I don't see a problem.
I think the main issues are that he a)got some level of education without paying (regardless of the fact that he got no credit for the classes), b)gained access to restricted areas within the school and c)had contact with patients who assumed he was a legitimate student although he never performed any treatments.
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
By second year you generally have actual patient contact (with standardized patients to practice procedures), meaning legally he was practicing medicine without a license. The actual students operate under the medical director's license.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I was going to post something similar. After all, if they were doing well for two whole years, that should count for something, right? Well, the problem is that he had access to patients and supplies. That's a huge security breach. Let's be honest, doing something like that is a little sketchy and it does raise questions about mental stability. You can't just assume that someone in that position won't cause serious harm to themselves or others. I see it as a matter of principle, really. If the school wants to retain credibility and integrity, they've got to get rid of someone like that. It makes them look bad enough that he was able to get away with it for as long as he did.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
To clarify, this happened in New Zealand, not Australia.
Anyway, I'm surprised that someone would have the resources to do this. How did this student support himself? I can't imagine making a living and carving enough time to survive med school.
Also, like someone already mentioned, the 1st two years of med school is generally didactics - classroom, labs, tests, then rinse and repeat. For anyone who is interested .. 3rd year is when the clinical rotations begin - we act like resident-lites through Medicine / OB Gyn / Pediatrics / Surgery / etc..
I'm not sure if you're reading this right. If you're referring to this article, from the Otago Daily Times, about a student at the University of Auckland, which is hosted on a website with the community geographic domain names of .nz, and the article ends with "Anna Leask, NZ Herald", the man is in New Zealand. Did you even read the article?! Why would you do this? Why does anyone do this?
Considering you're really no good without actually a degree, I don't know what this guy thought he could gain out of this. In the first two years, you learn ethics, watered-down law in the context of medicine and professionalism, so this man should have removed himself as soon as possible. These lectures should have smacked him in the face, as his actions run completely contrary to the principles and tenets taught.
Obviously, there are serious issues here, other than ripping off a heaps expensive education from Auckland Uni, and it's good, considering the circumstances, that this guy didn't do more than take histories.
But this sort of damaged the reputation of Auckland Uni and trust in med students. However, it was summarily resolved without too much of an issue.
Oh, by the way, this is old news.
Well, that's sad. Parents mightn't give a damn, but what kind of parent/guardian doesn't really know what's going on with their child/charge?
I don't know what the end-game for this guy was, but this would have not been good for him, especially if he wants to properly study at Auckland U, do higher education or practise medicine.
Whereabouts did you do your medical education?
Anyway, of a six-year course in ANZ, most have clinical experience all throughout. In the latter years, 5 and 6, students move off-campus and into the teaching hospitals.
As for student support, the En Zed Government has schemes to support various aspects of being a student, such as tuition and living expenses. (Some unis in New Zealand also charge fees willy-nilly.) However, as the guy wasn't really enrolled, as gelf suggested, probably parents. It's also possible that the man worked; several students did then and, generations and classes later, several students still do. You know, private academic or music tuition, check-out chick / bag boy, security guard, etc.
The courses tend to use simulated patients and made-up cases. In the hospital, in junior levels, no personal identifying information would be revealed to students.*
However, there's definitely no small order of misconduct. In addition, those that had their histories taken by this guy would have had their trust and privacy seriously breached.
This would have been pretty devastating for the attending / co-ordinator. I just don't know this whole thing would fly, 'cause, no matter how clique-ish med school is and how people can be at a different hospitals, everyone knows (of) everyone.
Oh definitely. However, I don't recall the Human Tissue Act mentioning anything about students themselves. On the other hand, irregularities can cause anatomy schools to lose their licence. In fact, a few years ago, a school in Sydney, Australia had its licence revoked by the Department of Health. That school no longer conducts anatomical examinations (but it continues to run a medical programme).
*Lol, just remembered that this isn't true: patient histories!
My wife is a fourth year med student, I knows how it goes.
But yes, there are a lot of potential issues.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Hello again.
I did my time (joking .. med school wasn't too bad when looking at it retrospectively) in the midwest. I didn't get into any Chicago schools, so I had to settle for the next best thing. Nothing against the East Coast, but it just seems so far away from home.
Does NZ have med school like the UK where you go to Undergrad + Med school for a total of 6 years? Do you guys then do 3+ years residency afterwards?
I have a feeling that only the US uses the Undergrad + MCAT (major weedout) + 4 years med school + 3+ years residency model.
Also, I've heard that tuition is covered by governments in some European countries. Is it like that in NZ?
I left school with about $200k in debt. Seeing as how I'm going to Primary Care, I will have to pay this for a long, long time. That's a major aspect of American medical education I would like to see changed some day.
Technically, Med School + Undergrad is about 6 years. It's the precepting phase getting lumped into medical school that causes the longer time.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Medical school matters in the Antipodes vary widely. Some schools have 5-year or 6-year high-school-leaver programmes. Others have 4-year Graduate programmes. Others have something else, like 6- or 7-year double-degree programmes or programmes where you transfer into after successful and competitive completion of an initial year, generally in health sciences.
After that, we serve a postgraduate year 1 and gain registration numbers. Some people commence specialist training here if the specialty allows it (e.g., path), though I really wouldn't recommend it. Most others do another year for things such as IM or Surg. Some people hang around a few years as residents, which isn't a terrible thing.
NZers wish they were Scandinavians. The Government pays ~75% of the tuition and students can borrow from the Government. It is still dear.
That is unfortunate. Tertiary education is one way to increase your chances in the world - though I can't that it's a sure thing - but it is prohibitive for a large portion of society. Very sad.