.... If there are no suitable ones for Ejdeha, Maybe we can vote on a new one?
I mean, Pyrokinesis sounds like a nice field
Actually, it's Ejdeha's choice if he wants to invent a new field. That honor is reserved for those who obtain High Mage status. Though a few have been known to modify ideas based on others' suggestions (or balking), the ultimate say is out of our hands. The list I posted was because there are quite a few unoccupied Fields that are pretty kickass.
Don't be so quick to whip out that redneck-teach...
You said in there that acronyms "may themselves become words"... I disagree. My definition of a word might differ slightly from yours, but I do not, nor have I ever, considered popular slang to be "words". And furthermore, certain of these "slang-words" (although I might call them "abominations") are added to dictionaries... Webster's, for example, took on Stephen Colbert's "truthiness" and there are dozens of other examples of this. These are not words, even if Webster's is willing to tell the public so. Also, Webster's has been known to kill certain words, merely because they do not find them often in modern conversation. As you may be beginning to see, I abhor Webster's dictionaries. Although slang is an important and relevant part of language, I will not accept that such terms as "lol" or "woot" (actually added to Webster's a year or so ago...) are words. As my apprentice (and rightfully so, apparently :hifive:) had pointed out, "lol" is an acronym, and "woot" is onomatopoeia. Whether the general populous uses them as, or even believes them to be words, doesn't matter. Whether or not I believe in trees doesn't determine whether or not they exist.
I used to be a strict linguistic realist like you. Then I took courses in linguistics and that whole view fell apart. There's simply no basis for the view that certain things that function as words aren't words. Sure, they're not old words, but they still do the work that words do and come about just as other words do.
Saying that certain words don't belong in a given language is like saying that certain genotypes don't belong in a given species. Perhaps they didn't at one point, but there is no strict species boundary. Nor is there any real wall around a language preventing the loss or gain of words throughout time and the mutation of its forms. In this way, species and languages can look radically different throughout time so that given a space of sufficient intervening years, the same (continuous) species or language could be radically different from itself in another point on its temporal continuity. I imagine that you would have a hard time understanding Ingvaeonic even though it's a relatively close language to English separated only by time and the linguitic mutations that come with it. Likewise you would hardly identify yourself personally with the common mammalian ancestor circa 70 million years ago though it's a relatively common ancestor of yours. Time brings changes, like walking upright or the introduction of the word "lol."
But the larger issue is the one of relativism, or perhaps put better, semantics. You wish to define away words you don't like, such as "lol," but do so without showing they fail to function as words do or to provide a criterion for excluding them. Well, they do function as words do, as linguistic units with meaning that can operate as parts of sentences. And no criterion would exclude "lol" without excluding other words you would doubtlessly want to accept. Would you exclude "microchip" for being too young, or exclude swear words for being of crass or populist origin? I doubt it. And if you do, well, that is merely semantics, quibbling about definitions. You're free to define new &/or populist words as not words, but they function exactly the same in their essential usage.
When you say that it doesn't matter what the general population believes them to be words, you are quite perfectly wrong. The only thing that matters is what a population believes are words. Words aren't real in the sense that you can literally touch or cut them. They are in people's minds, and it's the collective agreements between people that certain sounds refer to certain things or ideas in certain ways that makes words exist (and nothing else). Believing in trees doesn't make trees exist, sure. But trees aren't a kind of idea, and words are. Believing in words does make them exist.
And to wrap things up, I'll note that abominations tend to vary. Words thought of as low class in one era often become the vanguard of the elite not too soon thereafter. Words can change social status associations quite readily. Likewise, slang is continuous with the language it's a slang of. Slang can be an engine of new word generation, creating new forms and grammars and words, but it has also been known to repeat very old word forms, such as both rappers and Shakespeare truncating (more) to (mo'). And it may have been noted that "lol" and "woot" an acronym and an onomatopoeia but... those are kinds of words, not things other than words.
Acronym words
radar, scuba, snafu, zip (as in 'zip code'), laser, lidar, cyborg, canola, napalm, parsec, motocross, gulag, gestapo, nazi...
Is that aimed at me, with "douchewaffle"? If so, I didn't do it, so I couldn't help you.
No, it was aimed at Ratoly, with his successful induction of "semanticore." And by the way, I don't think "truthiness" has enough staying power to deserve to be in the dictionary. I think someone at Websters realized that they could sell 40% more dictionaries by including cool new words each year.
Wamyc, your ridiculously long post made me read it. Now my head hurts. I agree with about 80% of the things you wrote, however, my personal opinion is that what is agreed to be a word by 100.000% of the speakers of that language are perfectly words, while the rest are not perfectly words. Perfect in this case meaning "complete," as in the Perfect case.
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Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I am the original Semanticore! (Meaning I coined and defined the term.)
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
I used to be a strict linguistic realist like you. Then I took courses in linguistics and that whole view fell apart. There's simply no basis for the view that certain things that function as words aren't words. Sure, they're not old words, but they still do the work that words do and come about just as other words do.
Saying that certain words don't belong in a given language is like saying that certain genotypes don't belong in a given species. Perhaps they didn't at one point, but there is no strict species boundary. Nor is there any real wall around a language preventing the loss or gain of words throughout time and the mutation of its forms. In this way, species and languages can look radically different throughout time so that given a space of sufficient intervening years, the same (continuous) species or language could be radically different from itself in another point on its temporal continuity. I imagine that you would have a hard time understanding Ingvaeonic even though it's a relatively close language to English separated only by time and the linguitic mutations that come with it. Likewise you would hardly identify yourself personally with the common mammalian ancestor circa 70 million years ago though it's a relatively common ancestor of yours. Time brings changes, like walking upright or the introduction of the word "lol."
But the larger issue is the one of relativism, or perhaps put better, semantics. You wish to define away words you don't like, such as "lol," but do so without showing they fail to function as words do or to provide a criterion for excluding them. Well, they do function as words do, as linguistic units with meaning that can operate as parts of sentences. And no criterion would exclude "lol" without excluding other words you would doubtlessly want to accept. Would you exclude "microchip" for being too young, or exclude swear words for being of crass or populist origin? I doubt it. And if you do, well, that is merely semantics, quibbling about definitions. You're free to define new &/or populist words as not words, but they function exactly the same in their essential usage.
When you say that it doesn't matter what the general population believes them to be words, you are quite perfectly wrong. The only thing that matters is what a population believes are words. Words aren't real in the sense that you can literally touch or cut them. They are in people's minds, and it's the collective agreements between people that certain sounds refer to certain things or ideas in certain ways that makes words exist (and nothing else). Believing in trees doesn't make trees exist, sure. But trees aren't a kind of idea, and words are. Believing in words does make them exist.
And to wrap things up, I'll note that abominations tend to vary. Words thought of as low class in one era often become the vanguard of the elite not too soon thereafter. Words can change social status associations quite readily. Likewise, slang is continuous with the language it's a slang of. Slang can be an engine of new word generation, creating new forms and grammars and words, but it has also been known to repeat very old word forms, such as both rappers and Shakespeare truncating (more) to (mo'). And it may have been noted that "lol" and "woot" an acronym and an onomatopoeia but... those are kinds of words, not things other than words.
Acronym words
radar, scuba, snafu, zip (as in 'zip code'), laser, lidar, cyborg, canola, napalm, parsec, motocross, gulag, gestapo, nazi...
No, it was aimed at Ratoly, with his successful induction of "semanticore." And by the way, I don't think "truthiness" has enough staying power to deserve to be in the dictionary. I think someone at Websters realized that they could sell 40% more dictionaries by including cool new words each year.
Vote Ravus
In all seriousness, thanks for posting that. I learned a thing or two, and I'm sure Ravus will/did too.
Wamyc, your ridiculously long post made me read it. Now my head hurts. I agree with about 80% of the things you wrote, however, my personal opinion is that what is agreed to be a word by 100.000% of the speakers of that language are perfectly words, while the rest are not perfectly words. Perfect in this case meaning "complete," as in the Perfect case.
You do realize that more than 90% of English words (for example) are not recognized (Read: understood "correctly") by 100% of English speakers as English words, right?
I've been on a lot (like every day) I just don't post unless I have a really compelling reason to do so (like being told I don't post often enough).
As for voting things, I don't want to vote for myself. But in the interest of opening a spot in AI's grouping for Psizaz (yes, with the high front lax), it'd work if I moved to someone else's tower-lab. After all, who am I to stand between such an epic (b)romance?
I used to be a strict linguistic realist like you. Then I took courses in linguistics and that whole view fell apart. There's simply no basis for the view that certain things that function as words aren't words. Sure, they're not old words, but they still do the work that words do and come about just as other words do.
Saying that certain words don't belong in a given language is like saying that certain genotypes don't belong in a given species. Perhaps they didn't at one point, but there is no strict species boundary. Nor is there any real wall around a language preventing the loss or gain of words throughout time and the mutation of its forms. In this way, species and languages can look radically different throughout time so that given a space of sufficient intervening years, the same (continuous) species or language could be radically different from itself in another point on its temporal continuity. I imagine that you would have a hard time understanding Ingvaeonic even though it's a relatively close language to English separated only by time and the linguitic mutations that come with it. Likewise you would hardly identify yourself personally with the common mammalian ancestor circa 70 million years ago though it's a relatively common ancestor of yours. Time brings changes, like walking upright or the introduction of the word "lol."
But the larger issue is the one of relativism, or perhaps put better, semantics. You wish to define away words you don't like, such as "lol," but do so without showing they fail to function as words do or to provide a criterion for excluding them. Well, they do function as words do, as linguistic units with meaning that can operate as parts of sentences. And no criterion would exclude "lol" without excluding other words you would doubtlessly want to accept. Would you exclude "microchip" for being too young, or exclude swear words for being of crass or populist origin? I doubt it. And if you do, well, that is merely semantics, quibbling about definitions. You're free to define new &/or populist words as not words, but they function exactly the same in their essential usage.
When you say that it doesn't matter what the general population believes them to be words, you are quite perfectly wrong. The only thing that matters is what a population believes are words. Words aren't real in the sense that you can literally touch or cut them. They are in people's minds, and it's the collective agreements between people that certain sounds refer to certain things or ideas in certain ways that makes words exist (and nothing else). Believing in trees doesn't make trees exist, sure. But trees aren't a kind of idea, and words are. Believing in words does make them exist.
And to wrap things up, I'll note that abominations tend to vary. Words thought of as low class in one era often become the vanguard of the elite not too soon thereafter. Words can change social status associations quite readily. Likewise, slang is continuous with the language it's a slang of. Slang can be an engine of new word generation, creating new forms and grammars and words, but it has also been known to repeat very old word forms, such as both rappers and Shakespeare truncating (more) to (mo'). And it may have been noted that "lol" and "woot" an acronym and an onomatopoeia but... those are kinds of words, not things other than words.
QFT!
I was going to say something quite like this, but Waymc got there first (and probably said it far more eloquently than I could have. If a grouping of letters (at least talking about English) has use as common parlance, and the majority of speakers are able to understand its meaning or it has an accepted meaning, then it can be categorized as a word.
But Ratoly, language is not a perfect process, ever. If at any time there is no disagreement about a language, that is, if it is not evolving (because languages evolve through conflict) then it is a dead language.
3. Standard: Not that this is an especial fault of this guild, but we of all people should know that it's Boros and not boro's! So feel free to play your Boros Bushwhacker deck, but please, leave the apostrophes a h'ome!
Personally, I'm trying (and failing, for the most part) to play Valakut control. Cuz when it works, it's beautiful. Also playing around with slightly more casual decks like that absurd Grixis colored-cascade/land denial deck.
3'. Pokemon! Officially excited about Heart Gold/Soul Silver. Definitely my favorite pair back in the day; the nostalgia value is very high there.
EDH! My absolute favorite format. Got a Uril, the Miststalker deck built IRL, looking to get some cards together to make my Horde of Notions/I-steal-everything-you-play deck. I still have no MWS decks though, probably because I never seem to have the combined time and energy to make, record, and then put together a deck there.
WRG Uril the EDHstalker GRW RG Warp World GR BUW Rescue WUB WUBRG Alara's Children EDH GRBUW WUBRG Prismatic Oh-**** GRBUW UR Firemind EDH RU GW Token Legacy WG GRBUW Elementals! WUBRG WUB Esper Vaults BUW WWW Haterade WWW RRG Valakut Ramp GRR BR Shadow Sligh RB GB A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Graveyard BG UR Counterclasm Swans RU
3. Standard: Not that this is an especial fault of this guild, but we of all people should know that it's Boros and not boro's! So feel free to play your Boros Bushwhacker deck, but please, leave the apostrophes a h'ome!
If a grouping of letters (at least talking about English) has use as common parlance, and the majority of speakers are able to understand it's meaning or it has an accepted meaning, then it can be categorized as a word.
People in glass houses, etc.
Oh, and Niv wanted me to post this:
Quote from Niv on Facebook »
My fellow Izzet, I am sorry about my continued absance [sic]. As such I am here by resigning from the clan as a whole. I would like to be put on the friends list if that would be ok. Again I am sorry.
I told him he was Portal'd, and he's OK with that. He also said that he should get regular Internet around the end of the year, so hopefully we'll see from him again sometime.
WRG Uril the EDHstalker GRW RG Warp World GR BUW Rescue WUB WUBRG Alara's Children EDH GRBUW WUBRG Prismatic Oh-**** GRBUW UR Firemind EDH RU GW Token Legacy WG GRBUW Elementals! WUBRG WUB Esper Vaults BUW WWW Haterade WWW RRG Valakut Ramp GRR BR Shadow Sligh RB GB A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Graveyard BG UR Counterclasm Swans RU
You do realize that more than 90% of English words (for example) are not recognized (Read: understood "correctly") by 100% of English speakers as English words, right?
I do realize this. That's what I mean, few words are genuinely words.
But Ratoly, language is not a perfect process, ever. If at any time there is no disagreement about a language, that is, if it is not evolving (because languages evolve through conflict) then it is a dead language.
True. But in my little world, all languages are as good as dead, since it takes mis-communication to evolve, and in my little world, people should never have to mis-communicate. (i.e. Mis-communications cannot happen, so all languages are dead)
This is all in my little world though, so this may not apply as successfully to reality.
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Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I am the original Semanticore! (Meaning I coined and defined the term.)
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
Wamyc, your ridiculously long post made me read it. Now my head hurts. I agree with about 80% of the things you wrote, however, my personal opinion is that what is agreed to be a word by 100.000% of the speakers of that language are perfectly words, while the rest are not perfectly words. Perfect in this case meaning "complete," as in the Perfect case.
As AI pointed out, many words are simply unknown by speakers. This is especially true in English, with its vast vocabulary of foreign borrowed terms and multiple linguistic influences and subcultures. English is one of the wordiest and culturally diverse languages, making it highly inconvenient for you to be having this debate in English.
Perhaps something more compact and universally agreed upon, like the dialect of a Polynesian island where they've never been exposed to outside influences or tracked the development of languages and still fetishize words as immortal and magical. By which I mean to imply the notion of correct or perfect words is archaic and provincial. Words aren't correct and unchangeing, they're the ideas of mortals and will change and die with them.
I do realize this. That's what I mean, few words are genuinely words.
Actually, I can go one further than that. According to your definition of "word," there are no words in the English language. Every word is unknown to some speaker of English, be they a child just learning the language, or an adult with a mental disability or autism. Extreme cases of autism has people who don't understand the concept of self or other and yet are still able to speak, so even simple pronouns like "I" and "you" aren't words. And before you modify your definition of word to target only adult, educated, mentally sound and sane human beings (to exclude parrots), ask yourself why you are bothered enough to do so. You didn't mind excluding 90% of English words from being actual words, so why be bothered by excluding 100%?
I would say you've come up with a concept - the "complete word." It's a word that every speaker of the language knows and agrees is a word. That term (complete word) has a definition and a meaning, but it's not very helpful as there don't seem to be any complete words and if there are, they are very few and the line it demarcates doesn't seem very natural.
What you're trying to suggest is that the meaning of "word" is the meaning of "complete word." But I don't buy that. So in an ironic twist, since no one agrees that "word" is "complete word," it isn't. Words are tools for communicating with others, so there has to be consensus on meaning for the word to be a useful tool for communication. Though the consensus can be partial, so if you get Ravus to agree with you then in your language (the language of Ravus & Ratoly) "word" has that meaning. The rest of the english language speakers, though, will continue to have their roughly-equivalent ideas of what it means, and you might want to learn that language if only for convenience.
I think the problem is that linguistics attracts a certain type of person, a person who likes systems and facts and hard sciences. But although linguistics is a hard science, it's a science of fluids: of language. A physicist may prefer hard, determinate realities, but his temperament will have to be tempered by the apparent reality of subatomic chaos and indeterminacy proposed by quantum mechanics. In the same way, linguists may like precise orderly and strict meanings and functions, but they have to accept the maddening reality of an infinitude of languages, personal to every group that speaks to each other, the constant evolution of terms, and the fluid boundaries of meaning and function with imprecise agreement and understanding.
Actually, I can go one further than that. According to your definition of "word," there are no words in the English language. Every word is unknown to some speaker of English, be they a child just learning the language, or an adult with a mental disability or autism. Extreme cases of autism has people who don't understand the concept of self or other and yet are still able to speak, so even simple pronouns like "I" and "you" aren't words. And before you modify your definition of word to target only adult, educated, mentally sound and sane human beings (to exclude parrots), ask yourself why you are bothered enough to do so. You didn't mind excluding 90% of English words from being actual words, so why be bothered by excluding 100%?
You're right. There are no words! Yay! Complete freedom from definitions! I am such a harpoon!1
1Harpoon: For the sake of those who don't understand, by Harpoon, I mean lemonade2.
2lemonade: And by Lemonade, I mean genius. I could go on...
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Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I am the original Semanticore! (Meaning I coined and defined the term.)
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
You're right. There are no words! Yay! Complete freedom from definitions! I am such a harpoon!1
1Harpoon: For the sake of those who don't understand, by Harpoon, I mean lemonade2.
2lemonade: And by Lemonade, I mean genius. I could go on...
You just really confused me >...>!
So i went to my local FNM with jund and rawked it the only hard deck was that Nissa Aggro thats floating around by i MD'ded Ruinblaster and Had extra artifact removal for Eldrazi Momnument. went 4-0 top 8 3-0 Out of my packs i pulled
1x Nissa Revane (foil)
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Day of Judgement
1x Masrh Flats
Lotsa Junk Rares
and
.
.
.
.
..
.
A TUNDRA!!!! I was so shocked i was like yes yes yes its Alpha and signed!
So i went to my local FNM with jund and rawked it the only hard deck was that Nissa Aggro thats floating around by i MD'ded Ruinblaster and Had extra artifact removal for Eldrazi Momnument. went 4-0 top 8 3-0 Out of my packs i pulled
1x Nissa Revane (foil)
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Day of Judgement
1x Masrh Flats
Lotsa Junk Rares
and
.
.
.
.
..
.
A TUNDRA!!!! I was so shocked i was like yes yes yes its Alpha and signed!
!!! I fu-............Good job! I am eternally envious of your good doorbell.
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Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I am the original Semanticore! (Meaning I coined and defined the term.)
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
Congrats Gen0, that's awesome. I wish I had opened, or at least someone I personally knew, had opened a priceless treasure. So awesome, man!
@ratoly: remember, you had defined word as something everyone agreed on. And there are none of those. Of course there are actual words in the normal meaning of the term. And yes, you can do the harpoon/lemonade dance, but the point of words is communication with others, and it's usually a hassle to define all your terms before starting a conversation
You're right. There are no words! Yay! Complete freedom from definitions! I am such a harpoon!1
1Harpoon: For the sake of those who don't understand, by Harpoon, I mean lemonade2.
2lemonade: And by Lemonade, I mean genius. I could go on...
Actually, at the point where communication breaks down and no one but you understands what you are saying, you're no longer speaking a language. Or using words...
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UUUEntia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatemRRR
WRG Uril the EDHstalker GRW RG Warp World GR BUW Rescue WUB WUBRG Alara's Children EDH GRBUW WUBRG Prismatic Oh-**** GRBUW UR Firemind EDH RU GW Token Legacy WG GRBUW Elementals! WUBRG WUB Esper Vaults BUW WWW Haterade WWW RRG Valakut Ramp GRR BR Shadow Sligh RB GB A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Graveyard BG UR Counterclasm Swans RU
Actually, at the point where communication breaks down and no one but you understands what you are saying, you're no longer speaking a language. Or using words...
@ratoly: remember, you had defined word as something everyone agreed on. And there are none of those. Of course there are actual words in the normal meaning of the term. And yes, you can do the harpoon/lemonade dance, but the point of words is communication with others, and it's usually a hassle to define all your terms before starting a conversation
Exactly. I have made my point. Words are there for communication, and when new words with vague meanings like QQ, or meme show up, communication becomes more and more convoluted and complex, leading to an increase in miscommunication and misinterpretations. My point was: Having standard definitions and a finite amount of words prevents confusion and misrepresentation.
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Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I am the original Semanticore! (Meaning I coined and defined the term.)
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
As AI pointed out, many words are simply unknown by speakers. This is especially true in English, with its vast vocabulary of foreign borrowed terms and multiple linguistic influences and subcultures. English is one of the wordiest and culturally diverse languages, making it highly inconvenient for you to be having this debate in English.
Perhaps something more compact and universally agreed upon, like the dialect of a Polynesian island where they've never been exposed to outside influences or tracked the development of languages and still fetishize words as immortal and magical. By which I mean to imply the notion of correct or perfect words is archaic and provincial. Words aren't correct and unchangeing, they're the ideas of mortals and will change and die with them.
Actually, I can go one further than that. According to your definition of "word," there are no words in the English language. Every word is unknown to some speaker of English, be they a child just learning the language, or an adult with a mental disability or autism. Extreme cases of autism has people who don't understand the concept of self or other and yet are still able to speak, so even simple pronouns like "I" and "you" aren't words. And before you modify your definition of word to target only adult, educated, mentally sound and sane human beings (to exclude parrots), ask yourself why you are bothered enough to do so. You didn't mind excluding 90% of English words from being actual words, so why be bothered by excluding 100%?
I would say you've come up with a concept - the "complete word." It's a word that every speaker of the language knows and agrees is a word. That term (complete word) has a definition and a meaning, but it's not very helpful as there don't seem to be any complete words and if there are, they are very few and the line it demarcates doesn't seem very natural.
What you're trying to suggest is that the meaning of "word" is the meaning of "complete word." But I don't buy that. So in an ironic twist, since no one agrees that "word" is "complete word," it isn't. Words are tools for communicating with others, so there has to be consensus on meaning for the word to be a useful tool for communication. Though the consensus can be partial, so if you get Ravus to agree with you then in your language (the language of Ravus & Ratoly) "word" has that meaning. The rest of the english language speakers, though, will continue to have their roughly-equivalent ideas of what it means, and you might want to learn that language if only for convenience.
I think the problem is that linguistics attracts a certain type of person, a person who likes systems and facts and hard sciences. But although linguistics is a hard science, it's a science of fluids: of language. A physicist may prefer hard, determinate realities, but his temperament will have to be tempered by the apparent reality of subatomic chaos and indeterminacy proposed by quantum mechanics. In the same way, linguists may like precise orderly and strict meanings and functions, but they have to accept the maddening reality of an infinitude of languages, personal to every group that speaks to each other, the constant evolution of terms, and the fluid boundaries of meaning and function with imprecise agreement and understanding.
Exactly. I have made my point. Words are there for communication, and when new words with vague meanings like QQ, or meme show up, communication becomes more and more convoluted and complex, leading to an increase in miscommunication and misinterpretations. My point was: Having standard definitions and a finite amount of words prevents confusion and misrepresentation.
It's impossible to deal with absolutes when it comes to language. There will always be exceptions to rules, and new words are created to facilitate communication, not hinder it. Argot exists not to devalue vocabulary of older generations, but to advance the culture of a civilization and lead the way to the generation of new ways of thinking.
Ratoly is a conservative linguist! He couldn't be Glen Beck's English teacher, could he!?
So i went to my local FNM with jund and rawked it the only hard deck was that Nissa Aggro thats floating around by i MD'ded Ruinblaster and Had extra artifact removal for Eldrazi Momnument. went 4-0 top 8 3-0 Out of my packs i pulled
1x Nissa Revane (foil)
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Day of Judgement
1x Masrh Flats
Lotsa Junk Rares
and
.
.
.
.
..
.
A TUNDRA!!!! I was so shocked i was like yes yes yes its Alpha and signed!
Damn, that's nice buddy.
Anyways...
Acolyte of Destruction Vote:
RukarumelFieldJournal
kaipalin - 3 (pheonix, Surging Chaos, AI) Ratoly - (Apparently dropped out of the running..?)
Lucknorris
I'll wait until midnight between tomorrow and Thursday, just to allow any inconsistencies to be cleared up.
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Credit goes to Le_Gambit at [Æther] for my "sexy" avvy
(U/R) High Mage of Unpredictability and Leader of the [Izzet] Clan. (U/R) Sales Thread
wamyc, that was a really awesome read. Seriously. It was spoken like a true Izzet. I like speaking with such vivid language and keeping precise watch on syntax a lot when I write, but I generally keep it a bit dialed down when talking to people normally. It's just a common sense thing, at least to me that is.
As for voting things, I don't want to vote for myself. But in the interest of opening a spot in AI's grouping for Psizaz (yes, with the high front lax), it'd work if I moved to someone else's tower-lab. After all, who am I to stand between such an epic (b)romance?
3. Standard: Not that this is an especial fault of this guild, but we of all people should know that it's Boros and not boro's! So feel free to play your Boros Bushwhacker deck, but please, leave the apostrophes a h'ome!
Heh....If I add an extra ' don't mind that. Most Izzets know my grammar is atrocious, but I swear it's getting better!
Oh, and Niv wanted me to post this:
I told him he was Portal'd, and he's OK with that. He also said that he should get regular Internet around the end of the year, so hopefully we'll see from him again sometime.
So i went to my local FNM with jund and rawked it the only hard deck was that Nissa Aggro thats floating around by i MD'ded Ruinblaster and Had extra artifact removal for Eldrazi Momnument. went 4-0 top 8 3-0 Out of my packs i pulled
1x Nissa Revane (foil)
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Day of Judgement
1x Masrh Flats
Lotsa Junk Rares
and
.
.
.
.
..
.
A TUNDRA!!!! I was so shocked i was like yes yes yes its Alpha and signed!
Good shizz Gen0 on getting a Tundra and not something like a Plateau lol. Seriously though, that is just absolutely incredible that you hit the jackpot and found of the "priceless treasures".
I was so sure that I would get a priceless treasure in my box of first run ZEN, but no. I didn't even get that many fetches, maybe three. But the priceless treasures sure did run up the price of the boxes, far too much if you ask me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:symr::symr: Elemental Synthesis :symu::symu:
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You're better off, perhaps. You should see the depraved things that occur behind the closed doors of his extendo...
...They don't even close the doors, half the time.
Oh the humanity!
On another note, I'm thinking about my current B/G Beater deck. I know I need Spiritmonger, but what else seems worthwile? Thread here.
I've done a little editing to it, and it goldfishes well, but everything does. I'll have more info on how well it works after lunch today.
Thanks to Numotflame96 at Maelstrom Graphics!
Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
Actually, it's Ejdeha's choice if he wants to invent a new field. That honor is reserved for those who obtain High Mage status. Though a few have been known to modify ideas based on others' suggestions (or balking), the ultimate say is out of our hands. The list I posted was because there are quite a few unoccupied Fields that are pretty kickass.
I used to be a strict linguistic realist like you. Then I took courses in linguistics and that whole view fell apart. There's simply no basis for the view that certain things that function as words aren't words. Sure, they're not old words, but they still do the work that words do and come about just as other words do.
Saying that certain words don't belong in a given language is like saying that certain genotypes don't belong in a given species. Perhaps they didn't at one point, but there is no strict species boundary. Nor is there any real wall around a language preventing the loss or gain of words throughout time and the mutation of its forms. In this way, species and languages can look radically different throughout time so that given a space of sufficient intervening years, the same (continuous) species or language could be radically different from itself in another point on its temporal continuity. I imagine that you would have a hard time understanding Ingvaeonic even though it's a relatively close language to English separated only by time and the linguitic mutations that come with it. Likewise you would hardly identify yourself personally with the common mammalian ancestor circa 70 million years ago though it's a relatively common ancestor of yours. Time brings changes, like walking upright or the introduction of the word "lol."
But the larger issue is the one of relativism, or perhaps put better, semantics. You wish to define away words you don't like, such as "lol," but do so without showing they fail to function as words do or to provide a criterion for excluding them. Well, they do function as words do, as linguistic units with meaning that can operate as parts of sentences. And no criterion would exclude "lol" without excluding other words you would doubtlessly want to accept. Would you exclude "microchip" for being too young, or exclude swear words for being of crass or populist origin? I doubt it. And if you do, well, that is merely semantics, quibbling about definitions. You're free to define new &/or populist words as not words, but they function exactly the same in their essential usage.
When you say that it doesn't matter what the general population believes them to be words, you are quite perfectly wrong. The only thing that matters is what a population believes are words. Words aren't real in the sense that you can literally touch or cut them. They are in people's minds, and it's the collective agreements between people that certain sounds refer to certain things or ideas in certain ways that makes words exist (and nothing else). Believing in trees doesn't make trees exist, sure. But trees aren't a kind of idea, and words are. Believing in words does make them exist.
And to wrap things up, I'll note that abominations tend to vary. Words thought of as low class in one era often become the vanguard of the elite not too soon thereafter. Words can change social status associations quite readily. Likewise, slang is continuous with the language it's a slang of. Slang can be an engine of new word generation, creating new forms and grammars and words, but it has also been known to repeat very old word forms, such as both rappers and Shakespeare truncating (more) to (mo'). And it may have been noted that "lol" and "woot" an acronym and an onomatopoeia but... those are kinds of words, not things other than words.
Acronym words
radar, scuba, snafu, zip (as in 'zip code'), laser, lidar, cyborg, canola, napalm, parsec, motocross, gulag, gestapo, nazi...
Onomatopoeia words
Boo, woof, crash, buzz, fizz, honk, howl, murmur, peep, slop, twinkle, whimper, thud...
No, it was aimed at Ratoly, with his successful induction of "semanticore." And by the way, I don't think "truthiness" has enough staying power to deserve to be in the dictionary. I think someone at Websters realized that they could sell 40% more dictionaries by including cool new words each year.
Thanks to Numotflame96 at Maelstrom Graphics!
Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
Conveniently enough, I have this thing called an "Extendo" with all sorts of goodies in it, including old avatars and sig banners.
My First Avatar:
For you, same thing.
Or do you?
You wish you were cool enough to get invited to those parties.
In all seriousness, thanks for posting that. I learned a thing or two, and I'm sure Ravus will/did too.
You do realize that more than 90% of English words (for example) are not recognized (Read: understood "correctly") by 100% of English speakers as English words, right?
I've been on a lot (like every day) I just don't post unless I have a really compelling reason to do so (like being told I don't post often enough).
As for voting things, I don't want to vote for myself. But in the interest of opening a spot in AI's grouping for Psizaz (yes, with the high front lax), it'd work if I moved to someone else's tower-lab. After all, who am I to stand between such an epic (b)romance?
QFT!
I was going to say something quite like this, but Waymc got there first (and probably said it far more eloquently than I could have. If a grouping of letters (at least talking about English) has use as common parlance, and the majority of speakers are able to understand its meaning or it has an accepted meaning, then it can be categorized as a word.
But Ratoly, language is not a perfect process, ever. If at any time there is no disagreement about a language, that is, if it is not evolving (because languages evolve through conflict) then it is a dead language.
3. Standard: Not that this is an especial fault of this guild, but we of all people should know that it's Boros and not boro's! So feel free to play your Boros Bushwhacker deck, but please, leave the apostrophes a h'ome!
Personally, I'm trying (and failing, for the most part) to play Valakut control. Cuz when it works, it's beautiful. Also playing around with slightly more casual decks like that absurd Grixis colored-cascade/land denial deck.
3'. Pokemon! Officially excited about Heart Gold/Soul Silver. Definitely my favorite pair back in the day; the nostalgia value is very high there.
EDH! My absolute favorite format. Got a Uril, the Miststalker deck built IRL, looking to get some cards together to make my Horde of Notions/I-steal-everything-you-play deck. I still have no MWS decks though, probably because I never seem to have the combined time and energy to make, record, and then put together a deck there.
The tamest involve beating the pants off of people...
RG Warp World GR
BUW Rescue WUB
WUBRG Alara's Children EDH GRBUW
WUBRG Prismatic Oh-**** GRBUW
UR Firemind EDH RU
GW Token Legacy WG
GRBUW Elementals! WUBRG
WUB Esper Vaults BUW
WWW Haterade WWW
RRG Valakut Ramp GRR
BR Shadow Sligh RB
GB A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Graveyard BG
UR Counterclasm Swans RU
People in glass houses, etc.
Oh, and Niv wanted me to post this:
I told him he was Portal'd, and he's OK with that. He also said that he should get regular Internet around the end of the year, so hopefully we'll see from him again sometime.
As if fantasy names were subject to the rules of the English language!
RG Warp World GR
BUW Rescue WUB
WUBRG Alara's Children EDH GRBUW
WUBRG Prismatic Oh-**** GRBUW
UR Firemind EDH RU
GW Token Legacy WG
GRBUW Elementals! WUBRG
WUB Esper Vaults BUW
WWW Haterade WWW
RRG Valakut Ramp GRR
BR Shadow Sligh RB
GB A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Graveyard BG
UR Counterclasm Swans RU
I do realize this. That's what I mean, few words are genuinely words.
True. But in my little world, all languages are as good as dead, since it takes mis-communication to evolve, and in my little world, people should never have to mis-communicate. (i.e. Mis-communications cannot happen, so all languages are dead)
This is all in my little world though, so this may not apply as successfully to reality.
Thanks to Numotflame96 at Maelstrom Graphics!
Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
As AI pointed out, many words are simply unknown by speakers. This is especially true in English, with its vast vocabulary of foreign borrowed terms and multiple linguistic influences and subcultures. English is one of the wordiest and culturally diverse languages, making it highly inconvenient for you to be having this debate in English.
Perhaps something more compact and universally agreed upon, like the dialect of a Polynesian island where they've never been exposed to outside influences or tracked the development of languages and still fetishize words as immortal and magical. By which I mean to imply the notion of correct or perfect words is archaic and provincial. Words aren't correct and unchangeing, they're the ideas of mortals and will change and die with them.
Actually, I can go one further than that. According to your definition of "word," there are no words in the English language. Every word is unknown to some speaker of English, be they a child just learning the language, or an adult with a mental disability or autism. Extreme cases of autism has people who don't understand the concept of self or other and yet are still able to speak, so even simple pronouns like "I" and "you" aren't words. And before you modify your definition of word to target only adult, educated, mentally sound and sane human beings (to exclude parrots), ask yourself why you are bothered enough to do so. You didn't mind excluding 90% of English words from being actual words, so why be bothered by excluding 100%?
I would say you've come up with a concept - the "complete word." It's a word that every speaker of the language knows and agrees is a word. That term (complete word) has a definition and a meaning, but it's not very helpful as there don't seem to be any complete words and if there are, they are very few and the line it demarcates doesn't seem very natural.
What you're trying to suggest is that the meaning of "word" is the meaning of "complete word." But I don't buy that. So in an ironic twist, since no one agrees that "word" is "complete word," it isn't. Words are tools for communicating with others, so there has to be consensus on meaning for the word to be a useful tool for communication. Though the consensus can be partial, so if you get Ravus to agree with you then in your language (the language of Ravus & Ratoly) "word" has that meaning. The rest of the english language speakers, though, will continue to have their roughly-equivalent ideas of what it means, and you might want to learn that language if only for convenience.
I think the problem is that linguistics attracts a certain type of person, a person who likes systems and facts and hard sciences. But although linguistics is a hard science, it's a science of fluids: of language. A physicist may prefer hard, determinate realities, but his temperament will have to be tempered by the apparent reality of subatomic chaos and indeterminacy proposed by quantum mechanics. In the same way, linguists may like precise orderly and strict meanings and functions, but they have to accept the maddening reality of an infinitude of languages, personal to every group that speaks to each other, the constant evolution of terms, and the fluid boundaries of meaning and function with imprecise agreement and understanding.
You're right. There are no words! Yay! Complete freedom from definitions! I am such a harpoon!1
1Harpoon: For the sake of those who don't understand, by Harpoon, I mean lemonade2.
2lemonade: And by Lemonade, I mean genius. I could go on...
Thanks to Numotflame96 at Maelstrom Graphics!
Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
You just really confused me >...>!
So i went to my local FNM with jund and rawked it the only hard deck was that Nissa Aggro thats floating around by i MD'ded Ruinblaster and Had extra artifact removal for Eldrazi Momnument. went 4-0 top 8 3-0 Out of my packs i pulled
1x Nissa Revane (foil)
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Day of Judgement
1x Masrh Flats
Lotsa Junk Rares
and
.
.
.
.
..
.
A TUNDRA!!!! I was so shocked i was like yes yes yes its Alpha and signed!
Excellent! My haddock worked as discoed!
!!! I fu-............Good job! I am eternally envious of your good doorbell.
Thanks to Numotflame96 at Maelstrom Graphics!
Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
@ratoly: remember, you had defined word as something everyone agreed on. And there are none of those. Of course there are actual words in the normal meaning of the term. And yes, you can do the harpoon/lemonade dance, but the point of words is communication with others, and it's usually a hassle to define all your terms before starting a conversation
Actually, at the point where communication breaks down and no one but you understands what you are saying, you're no longer speaking a language. Or using words...
RG Warp World GR
BUW Rescue WUB
WUBRG Alara's Children EDH GRBUW
WUBRG Prismatic Oh-**** GRBUW
UR Firemind EDH RU
GW Token Legacy WG
GRBUW Elementals! WUBRG
WUB Esper Vaults BUW
WWW Haterade WWW
RRG Valakut Ramp GRR
BR Shadow Sligh RB
GB A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Graveyard BG
UR Counterclasm Swans RU
As I defined "words" at least.
Exactly. I have made my point. Words are there for communication, and when new words with vague meanings like QQ, or meme show up, communication becomes more and more convoluted and complex, leading to an increase in miscommunication and misinterpretations. My point was: Having standard definitions and a finite amount of words prevents confusion and misrepresentation.
Thanks to Numotflame96 at Maelstrom Graphics!
Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
Did you not notice the red text indicating your misuse of an apostrophe?
Funny; this discussion has got my Stewie all a-tingle!
This is why the Izzet are full of win.
:gaping::hifive::thumbsup:
It's impossible to deal with absolutes when it comes to language. There will always be exceptions to rules, and new words are created to facilitate communication, not hinder it. Argot exists not to devalue vocabulary of older generations, but to advance the culture of a civilization and lead the way to the generation of new ways of thinking.
Ratoly is a conservative linguist! He couldn't be Glen Beck's English teacher, could he!?
It has always been up to the High Mage what his/her field would be, and most people make them up rather than reclaiming a previous one.
Damn, that's nice buddy.
Anyways...
Acolyte of Destruction Vote:
RukarumelFieldJournal
kaipalin - 3 (pheonix, Surging Chaos, AI)
Ratoly- (Apparently dropped out of the running..?)Lucknorris
I'll wait until midnight between tomorrow and Thursday, just to allow any inconsistencies to be cleared up.
Sales Thread
That is essentially correct, sir. I have dropped out because I plan to stay in the field of Arcane Babblings for "flavor" reasons.......hehe.
Thanks to Numotflame96 at Maelstrom Graphics!
Acolyte of Elemental Synthesis in The Izzet
I have Deckbuilder's ADD.
* Clem is really shy.
Congrats to Ejdeha!
@RFJ: I'll try and get that reply I promised in soon, I just need to sit down and look at the list some more. Is it any particular format?
The Izzet
I can safely say he wasn't his spelling teacher, that's for sure.
I wasn't asking...I was telling everyone :teach:.
The Izzet always have, at least for as long as I have been around.
:aww:........:love:.
Heh....If I add an extra ' don't mind that. Most Izzets know my grammar is atrocious, but I swear it's getting better!
Well, that sucks :(.
See ya whenever Niv :(.
Holy crap! Good job Gen0!
Good shizz Gen0 on getting a Tundra and not something like a Plateau lol. Seriously though, that is just absolutely incredible that you hit the jackpot and found of the "priceless treasures".